I was mulling this point over lately, eventually came to the same conclusion as you here... I think depending on the person and where they are in their training/age/goals super heavy squats are not needed. Mixture of slightly heavy squats, slightly high rep but low weight squats the other days are good to have, either with kettlebells or sandbags. Lower body may grow less but since I am slightly older and my training has gaps depending on time of the year I am okay with this now.
I think I could have explained this point better looking back now, but yes it's totally goal dependent. I know people don't like to hear it, but there's a point where continued strength just isn't needed anymore and the risk to reward ratio doesn't justify it. Training to maintain athleticism and age gracefully while reaping the benefits of strength training doesn't mean you should train like a powerlifter. I value conditioning as equally as I do strength at this point in my training. Far too many people have their ego involved in their lifting.
The video was explained quite well : ) Theres an older fitness TH-camr called oldnatty who turned me towards conditioning and maintaining instead of extra size and weight
I've haven't had an issue recovering from squats since I started doing exercise bike, incline treadmill, or stair climber after leg day. The main issue I have with not doing some form of barbell squat is that you plateau really quickly and are limited by factors other than leg strength and technique.
@@gray1738I focus more on bodyweight and kettlebells these days so I don't have any issues with it but I can understand if your primary tool is a barbell how that could be an issue.
@@studentofphysicalcultureHave you tired doing Zecher squats? I do them as an accessory, there's much more posterior chain and core engagement compared to high bar back squat.
This sounds like your strength outgrew your program and the recovery time has gone up as a result. The same will happen as you get stronger in other exercises. I think the new exercises "feel" better because the weights are lighter and you're too strong for them. If your personal goals are better met with a different exercise set, then I would agree that squats are overrated (and in general, people can over rely on them). I just can't think of many strength goals that are not well supported by **some** barbell back squat training (with the very rare maximal effort set once you are beyond the beginner phase). That said, if you enjoy other things more then do them. The most best lifting program is what gets people into the gym and not what people fantasize about in lieu of going to the gym.
Good points. I agree with you largely, I just think people get too wrapped up in the idea of "conventional" Joe Wieder esque bodybuilding style of training. There are so many alternative ways to accomplish fitness goals that are more efficient for most people. I think we're finally seeing a time where some of these alternative models of fitness are finally gaining traction. That being said there is nothing wrong with barbells at all. It is a tool like anything else and is best suited to absolute strength. As I age I just care about preservation and mobility over absolute strength.
@studentofphysicalculture you said you "care about preservation and mobility over absolute strength". I was just pointing out that strength is a better predictor of "preservation" than the other things mentioned, and flexibility/absolute strength aren't mutually exclusive. Flexibility = loading a full ROM.
@@littlethuggieMaybe I misinterpreted you. I definitely understand how it increases bone density etc as we age and agree with you. I'm still lifting moderate weights 3x a week. I just don't care about things like squatting 3 plates, deadlifting 4 etc anymore.
I think your misinterpreting what's going on. Heavy squats are potent, and the after effects interfere with lower body training after your squats for like the next day. Which is a programming issue, not a squats don't work issue. Long runs, hard sports practice or hard interval training present similar challenges to lower body training afterwards. Which is why proper hybrid athletes are weaker than proper lifters and slower than proper runners. You can't have it all. Now, I will agree being strong with bb back squats can be hard to combine with other things, and that dropping them might make sense in a lot of cases programming wise. But that's due to how awesome they are and should rather be hailed as evidence of their potency.
If your training is more conducive to your goals then power to you. Many are interested in size and strength not "athleticism" per se. How do you measure this athleticism you feel? Is it measurable? It also sounds like you admit that heavy squats are better for size and strength than the movements you do which would be reason enough for many to choose them instead. Thanks for the video - just my two cents.
@@pattybaselinesI have better mobility and feel more agile compared to when I was 10lb heavier and stronger with less cardio endurance. Everyone has different goals and I respect and still do strength training. I just think people can become too dogmatic in their approach and at a certain point there are diminished returns.
@@GraysonAugustine I don't think over 2x bodyweight is essential for peak fitness. If your sport is powerlifting or strongman it is an entirely different matter.
@@GraysonAugustine It seems to generally be a good benchmark for most people. Personally my goals just changed. I simply don't care about numbers anymore.
Goblet squats with a dumbbell and trap bar deadlifts are my fav strength training exercises.
I was mulling this point over lately, eventually came to the same conclusion as you here... I think depending on the person and where they are in their training/age/goals super heavy squats are not needed. Mixture of slightly heavy squats, slightly high rep but low weight squats the other days are good to have, either with kettlebells or sandbags. Lower body may grow less but since I am slightly older and my training has gaps depending on time of the year I am okay with this now.
I think I could have explained this point better looking back now, but yes it's totally goal dependent. I know people don't like to hear it, but there's a point where continued strength just isn't needed anymore and the risk to reward ratio doesn't justify it. Training to maintain athleticism and age gracefully while reaping the benefits of strength training doesn't mean you should train like a powerlifter. I value conditioning as equally as I do strength at this point in my training. Far too many people have their ego involved in their lifting.
The video was explained quite well : )
Theres an older fitness TH-camr called oldnatty who turned me towards conditioning and maintaining instead of extra size and weight
I've haven't had an issue recovering from squats since I started doing exercise bike, incline treadmill, or stair climber after leg day. The main issue I have with not doing some form of barbell squat is that you plateau really quickly and are limited by factors other than leg strength and technique.
@@gray1738I focus more on bodyweight and kettlebells these days so I don't have any issues with it but I can understand if your primary tool is a barbell how that could be an issue.
@@studentofphysicalcultureHave you tired doing Zecher squats? I do them as an accessory, there's much more posterior chain and core engagement compared to high bar back squat.
@@gray1738 Only with kettlebells but I agree they're a great alternative. I like thrusters too
This sounds like your strength outgrew your program and the recovery time has gone up as a result. The same will happen as you get stronger in other exercises.
I think the new exercises "feel" better because the weights are lighter and you're too strong for them. If your personal goals are better met with a different exercise set, then I would agree that squats are overrated (and in general, people can over rely on them). I just can't think of many strength goals that are not well supported by **some** barbell back squat training (with the very rare maximal effort set once you are beyond the beginner phase).
That said, if you enjoy other things more then do them. The most best lifting program is what gets people into the gym and not what people fantasize about in lieu of going to the gym.
Good points. I agree with you largely, I just think people get too wrapped up in the idea of "conventional" Joe Wieder esque bodybuilding style of training. There are so many alternative ways to accomplish fitness goals that are more efficient for most people. I think we're finally seeing a time where some of these alternative models of fitness are finally gaining traction. That being said there is nothing wrong with barbells at all. It is a tool like anything else and is best suited to absolute strength. As I age I just care about preservation and mobility over absolute strength.
@studentofphysicalculture "strength" is a better predictor of longevity and health than just about anything.
@@littlethuggie I never said strength didn't have value. If that's your main focus more power to you, but it's not mine anymore.
@studentofphysicalculture you said you "care about preservation and mobility over absolute strength". I was just pointing out that strength is a better predictor of "preservation" than the other things mentioned, and flexibility/absolute strength aren't mutually exclusive. Flexibility = loading a full ROM.
@@littlethuggieMaybe I misinterpreted you. I definitely understand how it increases bone density etc as we age and agree with you. I'm still lifting moderate weights 3x a week. I just don't care about things like squatting 3 plates, deadlifting 4 etc anymore.
I think the same - how many times in life you have to squat over 100 kg... For reaching this point i think only more reps have sence
People get their ego tied up in numbers. It's not the end all be all of life.
I think your misinterpreting what's going on. Heavy squats are potent, and the after effects interfere with lower body training after your squats for like the next day.
Which is a programming issue, not a squats don't work issue. Long runs, hard sports practice or hard interval training present similar challenges to lower body training afterwards.
Which is why proper hybrid athletes are weaker than proper lifters and slower than proper runners. You can't have it all.
Now, I will agree being strong with bb back squats can be hard to combine with other things, and that dropping them might make sense in a lot of cases programming wise. But that's due to how awesome they are and should rather be hailed as evidence of their potency.
dyel cope love to see it😂
@@gg4935 I've been lifting for 7 years. There's zero cope whatsoever. I'm happy with what I've accomplished and don't compare myself to anyone.
If your training is more conducive to your goals then power to you.
Many are interested in size and strength not "athleticism" per se.
How do you measure this athleticism you feel? Is it measurable?
It also sounds like you admit that heavy squats are better for size and strength than the movements you do which would be reason enough for many to choose them instead.
Thanks for the video - just my two cents.
@@pattybaselinesI have better mobility and feel more agile compared to when I was 10lb heavier and stronger with less cardio endurance. Everyone has different goals and I respect and still do strength training. I just think people can become too dogmatic in their approach and at a certain point there are diminished returns.
When you say " heavy heavy heavy squats" what do you mean
@@GraysonAugustine I don't think over 2x bodyweight is essential for peak fitness. If your sport is powerlifting or strongman it is an entirely different matter.
@@studentofphysicalculture why even push for a 2x bw? Is that where you got stuck?
@@GraysonAugustine It seems to generally be a good benchmark for most people. Personally my goals just changed. I simply don't care about numbers anymore.
Disagree. Have a nice day. 👍
@@reallaurenceh You're entitled to that opinion