That wear on your brake drum where the clutch holds on is pretty normal but should be addressed. That's why Ford added steel lugs over those notches on the 26-27 brake drum.
@@cudaman-yq7pq that's good to know. It's a great upgrade from the original. I would almost rather buy a new drum if possible because I know all 3 drums are prone to cracking
After a century of wear, abuse and (oops!) missing parts, it got you home in bad weather. How the ring gear remained in place is one of those mysteries of life in the antique car hobby. Thankfully, Charlie will not overlook the finer details of parts and proper assembly when his noodling over this mess concludes. 👀👍
Excellent mechanical failure investigation! I found it very interesting. I hope you set it aside until you have time to collect all of the replacement parts that you need to reassemble it. This faliure is really an opportunity to improve the overall condition of your truck. Thank you for your dedication to saving old Fords.
The model t counted on the missing magnets to sling the oil, so if you remove them you have to add the special singers. 2. You're missing the internal oil line that picks up oil from the slinging process and brings oil to the front to the engine. 3. Without the internal oil line, you will burn up the rod bearing on #1. 4. You need the 16 screws for the ring gear, which also hold the aftermarket oil singers. 5. If you don't have auxiliary brakes you will not be able to stop if the auxiliary trans gets stuck In neutral while shifting...very dangerous.
I'll admit the phrase, 'You can probably guess how I know that.", made me laugh out-loud. Sorry for the misfortune of technical issues. It's really helpful to show us what's wrong. I like that. I've been thinking of changing the bands in my '26 and I might just pull the hogshead so it was interesting to see how it's done. I also think that gasket is leaking on mine and that's why I get a good amount of oil on the ground when I run the car. Standing by for part 2..............
Thank you. The biggest problem I've had with those leaking is the felt seal on the back of the block falls back when installing the hogshead and then it leaks like crazy. That's happened to me so many times.
I haven't seen the inside of an old tranny like that since 1972 when I watched my 80 year old neighbor pull one apart. That old guy sure inspired me as a kid. But now that's your job 😊
Did I hear you say that the truck doesn't have a starter? If that's the case, I wonder why the previous owner installed a ring gear onto the flywheel in the first place. Also interesting is that there were no oil slingers attached to the flywheel to take the place of the magnets. Glad you were able to get the clutch basket off, they can be a real bear. If you decide to buy a new brake drum, get the one with the removable lug shoes, they take the wear from the clutch disks rather than the drum casting itself.
It's a '20 engine so it probably came with a ring gear when new. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the drum, but I agree, the later ones with the removable shoes are a better design.
New drums are available from Dave nolting. His are cnc from cast steel. Now they are expensive but worth it. I searched through so many piles of transmissions and never did find a complete set of useable drums. Sometimes it’s just easier to pay up sometimes.
Funny how the Engine Pan goes all the back to ---- include --- the transmission ----- and case splits in half ------- and ------ Magnets ----- to sling the oil up as I read in your comments below ----- wonder why not little ears of sheet metal ------ NO BOLTS ------ to hold Ring Gear ------ they must have been high on something ----- BACK THEN ---- wonder if those ears in the housing to locate the clutch disc is a wear point on those housings? Be able to find another? -------- Hope you find another one ------------ Have a Good Labor Day Weekend ----------- Rodney
Thank you. Yes, the magnets do circulate the oil, but the primary function is to power the magneto which this engine doesn't have. When people remove them, they usually replace them with paddles so they can still move the oil. I'm not sure what to do with the drum, but I'll probably just find a better one.
Is it possible that a brake clutch drum even available? And where would you find a machinist to repair it? Parts must be by now hard to find without them being butchered. All the best to you, i enjoy watching your videos, you are a very calm man in the most frustrating situations LOL.
Ya I was hoping you might just cut that ring gear off and try it out to see how it sounded but I guess you might have already known there were other problems. I thought sure when that tranny came off it was going down. Those are pretty darn heavy like that. BTW I have a T engine stand that I can bring to our next meeting. I like the extra room here if you can use it. Hope you don't find too many other problems
A really interesting video for model T gear heads like myself. In the previous video I commented that the ring great is connected to the flywheel with sixteen brass machine screws. Now I know why they may have been omitted since you don’t even need a flywheel since you have no provision for a starter! Why didn’t they just remove that ring gear. I’m guessing maybe you also run with a distributer and don’t use the magneto anyway.
If you need parts there is a complete rolling T chassis (engine transmission rear axle front axle frame) that is perfect for parts because it's been left outside for God knows how long at an antique store in Upland/Ontario area (here in so Cal) called "treasures & junk antique mall". I could not tell you the exact year of it I'm not real good with my Model T stuff but I bought a 1917 Dodge Touring body out of there a few years ago and I go there a couple of times a year to see if anything new has been brought in The outside stuff is generally pretty reasonable so that model T might be a good price and I can tell you as of 5 months ago it was still there and had been there for probably 20 years So there is a good chance it is still there if you can't locate the parts parts in the LA area. Edit: It is behind the building on the outside. You enter through the front doors walk all the way to the back of the building as you face the back wall there will be a door towards the right corner, walk out that door and there is a area about 40 or 50 ft wide behind the building and its back fence once you walk out that back door make a left and you will see the T chassis along with a few other pre-war things that are pretty hashed about 30-40ft down on the right. There are also other Model T stuff in the front of the antique store used as displays It is not part of that It is in the back and it is definitely for sale.
@@onewhocollects6781 It's definitely worth the look if you get out towards the IE. There must be 100 touring/roadster type doors there. The cowl area of a pretty worn out 25-7 pickup, a fair amount of relatively early closed cab car doors and some other odds and ends inside and outside the building. It's stuff I thought was pretty cool for an antique store (It has the normal booths like all antique stores but I think it's the only one I've ever been to that has car parts) so I would imagine you might get a kick out of it also.
Wear on that brake drum is excessive find another drum or buy a new one not buying auxs trans 1 band unless you wanna rely on aftermarket brake reverse ok as several after market trans do have but play in that trans when you removed it need rebushed key easy to remove only done 30 if these trans
It's a VERY old car! So I'm sure its been around the block SEVERAL times by now! The "T" was very simple so that it could be easily fixed, as well as lasting a LONG time. It's been modified, then used a bunch! Probably time to go through it anyway. Then it'll be good for ANOTHER 90 years!
Wow. Way more complex than I imagined for that era. Thanks for showing.
That wear on your brake drum where the clutch holds on is pretty normal but should be addressed. That's why Ford added steel lugs over those notches on the 26-27 brake drum.
And some one-year-only narrow 1925 drums. The vendors sell a reproduction of the 1925 drum that uses lug shoes.
@@cudaman-yq7pq that's good to know. It's a great upgrade from the original. I would almost rather buy a new drum if possible because I know all 3 drums are prone to cracking
After a century of wear, abuse and (oops!) missing parts, it got you home in bad weather. How the ring gear remained in place is one of those mysteries of life in the antique car hobby. Thankfully, Charlie will not overlook the finer details of parts and proper assembly when his noodling over this mess concludes. 👀👍
Excellent mechanical failure investigation! I found it very interesting. I hope you set it aside until you have time to collect all of the replacement parts that you need to reassemble it. This faliure is really an opportunity to improve the overall condition of your truck. Thank you for your dedication to saving old Fords.
Love your downbeat demeanor. With that, you provide very interesting content and I look forward to learning more about how you did.
I was dying to know what happened.. and sadly.. now I know. I'm sure you'll have it back on the road soon. Cheers
Looks like forerunner of an automatic transmission of the future, with magnets no less.
I always had a intrest in the early ford's, i don't have one, but maybe someday. It was interesting to see the simplicity of these early cars.
Great video, I find these old cars very interesting. I'm looking FWD to the next episode
The model t counted on the missing magnets to sling the oil, so if you remove them you have to add the special singers. 2. You're missing the internal oil line that picks up oil from the slinging process and brings oil to the front to the engine. 3. Without the internal oil line, you will burn up the rod bearing on #1. 4. You need the 16 screws for the ring gear, which also hold the aftermarket oil singers. 5. If you don't have auxiliary brakes you will not be able to stop if the auxiliary trans gets stuck In neutral while shifting...very dangerous.
Ummm.... (2) It does have the oil line on it. You can see it at about 5:43. But you're right about everything else.
Great video. Love the series and the channel.
I'll admit the phrase, 'You can probably guess how I know that.", made me laugh out-loud. Sorry for the misfortune of technical issues. It's really helpful to show us what's wrong. I like that. I've been thinking of changing the bands in my '26 and I might just pull the hogshead so it was interesting to see how it's done. I also think that gasket is leaking on mine and that's why I get a good amount of oil on the ground when I run the car. Standing by for part 2..............
Thank you. The biggest problem I've had with those leaking is the felt seal on the back of the block falls back when installing the hogshead and then it leaks like crazy. That's happened to me so many times.
Silicone sealant is your friend
Interesting teardown. Enjoyed the video.
Thanks for the update on this automobile, ..... watching further episodes 👍.
Good Luck!!!!
Very interesting. Many thanks.
I haven't seen the inside of an old tranny like that since 1972 when I watched my 80 year old neighbor pull one apart. That old guy sure inspired me as a kid. But now that's your job 😊
Very interesting stuff. It's more high tech than I thought considering your next option of transportation then would have been a horse.
Did I hear you say that the truck doesn't have a starter? If that's the case, I wonder why the previous owner installed a ring gear onto the flywheel in the first place. Also interesting is that there were no oil slingers attached to the flywheel to take the place of the magnets. Glad you were able to get the clutch basket off, they can be a real bear. If you decide to buy a new brake drum, get the one with the removable lug shoes, they take the wear from the clutch disks rather than the drum casting itself.
It's a '20 engine so it probably came with a ring gear when new.
I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the drum, but I agree, the later ones with the removable shoes are a better design.
“You can probably guess how I know that” LOL
Take the key out of the ignition before you open the transmission cover … 😮
New drums are available from Dave nolting. His are cnc from cast steel. Now they are expensive but worth it. I searched through so many piles of transmissions and never did find a complete set of useable drums. Sometimes it’s just easier to pay up sometimes.
I've never bought a new drum, but I'm glad they're available. Yep, originals are almost always trashed beyond use.
Get a horse! LOL Enjoyed your video. BTW, is your fathers' name Art Garfunkel?
Funny how the Engine Pan goes all the back to ---- include --- the transmission ----- and case splits in half ------- and ------ Magnets ----- to sling the oil up as I read in your comments below ----- wonder why not little ears of sheet metal ------ NO BOLTS ------ to hold Ring Gear ------ they must have been high on something ----- BACK THEN ---- wonder if those ears in the housing to locate the clutch disc is a wear point on those housings? Be able to find another? -------- Hope you find another one ------------ Have a Good Labor Day Weekend ----------- Rodney
Thank you. Yes, the magnets do circulate the oil, but the primary function is to power the magneto which this engine doesn't have. When people remove them, they usually replace them with paddles so they can still move the oil.
I'm not sure what to do with the drum, but I'll probably just find a better one.
Thanks ----- now I know ---WHY --- magnets --- for the Magneto ---- Hope you can find another case ------ Rodney
That's crazy. But my dad's pinion nut backed off and we were still driving it around
Looks like you need a machine shop to work on the drum. Ouch.
Is it possible that a brake clutch drum even available? And where would you find a machinist to repair it? Parts must be by now hard to find without them being butchered. All the best to you, i enjoy watching your videos, you are a very calm man in the most frustrating situations LOL.
There are lots of parts still available for "T"s! That's because they were so popular, for so long.
luckily most parts are available new. which is a big help because good original drums are pretty rare, they're normally trashed beyond use.
Ya I was hoping you might just cut that ring gear off and try it out to see how it sounded but I guess you might have already known there were other problems. I thought sure when that tranny came off it was going down. Those are pretty darn heavy like that. BTW I have a T engine stand that I can bring to our next meeting. I like the extra room here if you can use it. Hope you don't find too many other problems
Yep, they're difficult to work on, sitting on the floor. I think I have a stand that will work, but thanks anyway!
A really interesting video for model T gear heads like myself. In the previous video I commented that the ring great is connected to the flywheel with sixteen brass machine screws. Now I know why they may have been omitted since you don’t even need a flywheel since you have no provision for a starter! Why didn’t they just remove that ring gear. I’m guessing maybe you also run with a distributer and don’t use the magneto anyway.
I've been thinking about it. not sure yet though.
find a good welder and add some material to the wear on the clutch disks seats.
Good Luck and thanks for the video.
If you need parts there is a complete rolling T chassis (engine transmission rear axle front axle frame) that is perfect for parts because it's been left outside for God knows how long at an antique store in Upland/Ontario area (here in so Cal) called "treasures & junk antique mall". I could not tell you the exact year of it I'm not real good with my Model T stuff but
I bought a 1917 Dodge Touring body out of there a few years ago and I go there a couple of times a year to see if anything new has been brought in The outside stuff is generally pretty reasonable so that model T might be a good price and I can tell you as of 5 months ago it was still there and had been there for probably 20 years So there is a good chance it is still there if you can't locate the parts parts in the LA area.
Edit: It is behind the building on the outside. You enter through the front doors walk all the way to the back of the building as you face the back wall there will be a door towards the right corner, walk out that door and there is a area about 40 or 50 ft wide behind the building and its back fence once you walk out that back door make a left and you will see the T chassis along with a few other pre-war things that are pretty hashed about 30-40ft down on the right.
There are also other Model T stuff in the front of the antique store used as displays It is not part of that It is in the back and it is definitely for sale.
Thanks, I'll look into it.
@@onewhocollects6781
It's definitely worth the look if you get out towards the IE.
There must be 100 touring/roadster type doors there. The cowl area of a pretty worn out 25-7 pickup, a fair amount of relatively early closed cab car doors and some other odds and ends inside and outside the building. It's stuff I thought was pretty cool for an antique store (It has the normal booths like all antique stores but I think it's the only one I've ever been to that has car parts) so I would imagine you might get a kick out of it also.
Sheesh even assuming a pretty soft casting that's a lot of wear. I feel for you I really do
Oh, that poor model T needs a bunch of fixing . . . and new parts.
Serial killer diagnosing 1918 Ford ... Subscribed
That is a interesting transmission! I think I can figure how it works, just wondering, is there any videos on how it works ?
I don't know if anyone has. I haven't seen one.
@@onewhocollects6781 Might want to watch "Strong's Garage" for some info on T's
Or if you know a 'guy' with a foundry! The clutch 'drum' has no complicated shape.
Thanks for the great video very educational
I do wonder what sort of symptoms that sort of wear produces? How was it acting before it broke on that drive?
It just ran like normal before, which makes it even more confusing.
Dad broke my Radio Flyer...
Braze the drum ?
probably should have.
Wear on that brake drum is excessive find another drum or buy a new one not buying auxs trans 1 band unless you wanna rely on aftermarket brake reverse ok as several after market trans do have but play in that trans when you removed it need rebushed key easy to remove only done 30 if these trans
Now we no why the Joint is Jumping
Did we miss some excitement when you turned off the camera??? 😂
That kind of tells me to stay away old cars that you don’t know the story unless you are willing to put a lot more money and effort.
It's a VERY old car! So I'm sure its been around the block SEVERAL times by now! The "T" was very simple so that it could be easily fixed, as well as lasting a LONG time. It's been modified, then used a bunch! Probably time to go through it anyway. Then it'll be good for ANOTHER 90 years!
Not very reliable if it broke after only 105 years.
Probably not a day over 104