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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ค. 2024
- Gohan defeating Perfect Cell with a kamehameha is one of the greatest moments in all of anime, let alone in Dragon Ball Z. And it's a moment that couldn't have happened if Vegeta hadn't fired an energy blast at Cell that threw off his aura and gave Gohan the opportunity to overpower him. But in the anime, it also couldn't have happened had Krillin, Piccolo, Tien and Yamcha not attacked Cell first and inspired Vegeta to do it too. It's an aspect of the climactic showdown that only occurs in the anime (in the manga it's only Vegeta who helps out Gohan during the big beam struggle), and in this video essay, I argue that the change that was made for the anime was a great one - that there are five reasons, off the top of my head, why the other Z Fighters helping out Gohan in "Save the World" made that moment and that episode better than it would've been otherwise.
This is a video essay I initially came up with just days after Akira Toriyama passed away in 2024. The plan was to get it out right away, as kind of a tribute to someone who meant a lot to me, but health issues kept me from being able to do so, or to get any videos made for a bit. All the same, I finally buckled down and finished it and decided to release it on July 5, 2024 but it marks the 10-year anniversary of the launch of my TH-cam channel.
If you enjoyed this video, you are more than welcome to press that big ole SUBCRIBE button if you feel like it. But hey, that's up to you :)
▬▬▬▬ ＶＩＤＥＯ ＣＨＡＰＴＥＲＳ ▬▬▬▬
00:00 - intro
03:15 - Reason #1: It makes it so that everyone there helped out
05:41 - Reason #2: It makes Vegeta's actions deeper
08:54 - Reason #3: It makes Vegeta's attack a bit less redundant
11:19 - Reason #4: It makes Cell even more imposing as a villain
13:45 - Reason #5: It makes the final showdown longer and more epic
Music courtesy of: Rukunetsu ( / @rukunetsu ) - บันเทิง
This scene hits so much harder when you watch the show from the beggining of Dragonball all the way to this point in Z. It highlights just how much Goku has influenced his friends to to the point they're willing to put down their lives for his son. Moments like this is why the Androids saga as a whole is my favorite arc on Dragonball. It really felt like all the Z fighters worked as a team and weren't relying on Goku the entire time
Need to emphasize something, Dragonball means original Dragonball where Goku was a kid and when he met these group of people he fought and became friends with
@@meesteranonymous8177 yup exactly. I recently rewatched the show from the old Dragonball all the way to the buu saga, and this moment just hit harder after watching everything the Z fighters have been through for 20+ years and them becoming friends
"It really felt like all the Z fighters worked as a team and weren't relying on Goku the entire time"
Except half of them were practically useless and some of them even actively contributed to Cell's continued growth
@@littlemoth4956 yeah yeah we know about your problem with balancing but guess what?
Not everybody's born with the potential to send shockwaves to the universe and destroy planets just like in real life where not everybody's born with the potential to be chads or power lifter or athletes or world class chess players.
If you can't deal with that then it's your own problem.
I liked the Namek Saga for the same reasons.
The main reason I like all the Z-fighters attacking Cell is because it allows them to essentially leave the franchise on a high note. By the time the Buu saga begins, all of them become useless side characters, with the biggest contribution anyone has being Piccolo's role as main cheerleader for Gotenks, who ended up being a largely irrelevant character himself. They do no more to defeat Buu than any random human who raised their hands for the spirit bomb. They become a bunch of master Roshis, a group of has-beens who stand on the sidelines doing nothing while the saiyans do all the fighting.
By adding their attack on Cell, the anime gives them one last hurrah, and their reflecting on their character growth as they get back up after being repeatedly knocked down is the perfect capstone to their stories and allows them to essentially retire from the franchise gracefully and lessen the sting of them being discarded by the franchise for the crime of not being named Goku or Vegeta after this.
Piccolo has slowly started to become more relevant again as one of Earth's main defenders now that Goku and Vegeta spend most of their time in space
@garywillig5143 I like the anime just fine, but in retrospect the z fighters helping does diminish what Vegeta chooses. All along Trunks keeps asking them all to be reasonable snd just cheat, gang up on cell, give goku a senzu, and they refuse him. Their warrior pride won't allow it, even if it ends the world. After Trunks dies Vegeta embraces the truth his son tried to impart, lives are more than pride. It's meaningful that Vegeta who most embraced the pride holding the others back, is the one who lets it go.
The anime continues to bable about Vegeta's pride to this very day, but he threw it away long ago, now he fights for love.
I like this scene because it was never about them actually doing damage to him. It was just the principle of standing on business even if it meant certain death
It wasn't so much risking their lives for the greater good (because, Vegeta aside, they'd never question it to begin with), but rather, it was about the fact that death seemed completely unavoidable, no matter what they did... and as such, the Z Fighters helping Gohan was a pointless gesture, and they knew it, but chose to do the right thing regardless... it was an optimistic conclusion born from a pessimistic outlook. Many can say "well, if things can't get worse, let's just do whatever we want", but not many could say that to then perform an act of (relatively) selfless heroism... and this showing of their indomitable warrior spirit, was exactly what saved them in the end, influencing Vegeta enough to make the greatest difference, and ultimately save the world from impending doom.
@@Eldoofus Yeah you explained it better than i could. Articulaating my thoughts clearly is still something i find difficult esspecially when discussing something im really into. But you got it down. They stood on business depsite believing they were certainly going to die. My head canon will always be that vegeta pride just would allow it to end that way. And i dont even like vegeta, like at all. But bro stepped up
Stand proud, you've cooked
haha, thanks!
Is there carbonara
Cooked what?
I like this change because it's one of a few bones thrown to Yamcha
He's my fave character
Based filler enjoyer
I never really got the filler hate with dragonball. It adds so much to the world and characters
@@no-ic5gwdrivers test filler was essential to building goku and piccolos characters
@@liamdean9410 100%
Fr tho
I welcome filler with open arms
I love the lines he says before he decides to join in the anime, it shows his struggle with his own pride.
"It's not fear that's holding me back it's just ... it's just" 😮💨
@@kayiness its just fear lmao
The Anime saved the Cell Saga imo. In the manga, so many crucial elements and pieces of development were either relegated to a panel or page, or simply not *there* and it made the emotional moments seem very rushed and unsatisfying. Trunks especially gets the short end of the stick in this arc, paying eternal rent off of his great introduction for decades despite only really being a glorified plot device that spoke every once in a while.
The anime gave filler scenes to so many characters, like 16 and Gohan, or Trunks and Gohan, that fleshed out the themes of the saga more. It also again gives the Z fighters their last amount of shine in Z before becoming truly sidelined all the way until Super, as GT pretty much sidelines all of its legacy cast.
It was shocking seeing stuff like the Gohan/Goku time chamber sequence literally only being a page in the manga lol
Back in 2001/2002 The end of the Cell saga was peak for me too, everything that came after that was just chasing that high point.
Great analysis! This is the scene I chose to highlight when Toriyama passed to put an emphasis on how great the story of DBZ is. Though he claimed to have never actually watched the show in full, he laid the foundation for a character like Vegeta to have this kind of development. Anime pioneering moment.
Thanks!, and I totally agree.
Actually Vegeta's development to good was very bad in the manga
@@takahashishouko No it wasn’t.
I think Vegeta smiling at the end was just him being petty that he messed up Cell's plan and that he helped avenge Trunks. It's not common for people to be happy for one second, then become depressed once the adrenaline hits them
I can't believe you didn't mention the best part of this segment. The one that baffles my mind as to why people say this scene shouldn't've been added.
The thematic aspect to Cell, an amalgamation of the Earth's greatest fighters, being defeated by all of the people who shaped him into who he became. It just doesn't make sense to me that people genuinely think Cell being defeated by a bunch of Saiyans with the same abilities is genuinely better than him being defeated by everyone, especially since his Namekian Regeneration was arguably one of his scariest abilities.
Even the only valid argument, that it emphasizes Vegeta having to put down Cell after he built him up by letting him take 18, is flimsy. Not only do people forget that Krillin was *also* to blame for that, so him fighting Cell helps wrap that arc, but as you mention in the video, Vegeta being completely humiliated by his own failures is actually strengthened in the anime version.
Yeah but the others attacks didn't actually do anything, those guys were all too weak
@guyverjay1289 well of course they don't, in the story they were too weak at the time. That was Toriyama's fault and they couldn't really change that without possibly fucking up the powerscaling.
If anything what they did was definitely the best case outcome. They made these characters still useful and relevant even if their power had long been eclipsed, and it STILL doesn't steal the spotlight from Gohan. Also, as said in the video, in his last moments it just makes Cell even more formidable.
@guyverjay1289
They distracted him and forced him to use energy blowing them away. Allowing gohan small breathing moments to keep his beam going.
Id say thats still something👍🏾
The reason I’m not a huge fan of it is that it takes away from what makes Gohan vs Cell such a thematic matchup. Cell is the embodiment of everything great about the Z-fighters and other people, but also the bad things. The only DNA he didn’t have was of Gohan, Gohan was an unpredictable, Gohan corrected all of the mistakes by beating Cell. Vegeta’s blast didn’t even really do anything, it was just character growth for Vegeta.
@@thelettucebarrel7784
If I may?
Gohan wouldnt be much without the support of the other Z fighters. They went b4 him and it was in watching and learning from them that he grew.
I'd argue them attacking cell with him is their way of reassuring him that he isnt alone in that fight.
The embodiment of the Z fighters is being attacked by the dna he is composed of.
I refuse to think that multiple grown ass men would sit on the sidelines grunting and "awe"-ing as an 11 year old CHILD single handedly fights for their, earths, and his own life/lives.😂
To make matters worse hes the son of the man who "saved" them all in some capacity. Yall really gone leave his spawn to the wolves like dat?😂
They couldnt do much, sure, but them being there shows when the chips are down they'll still fight till the end and help him, as they should do.
Also, vegetas attack did jostle cell, making him lose focus and allowed gohan to capitalize and get the W.
Keep in mind that Akira Toriyama-sensei was writing the Manga under pressure, week per week, in parallel with the anime... He didn't have a long-term plan for each character, so it's beautiful that they managed to give each character their moment to shine.
THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING, AKIRA TORIYAMA-SENSEI 😢
RIP
I don’t get the hate for the Garlic Jr saga. it gives the distract the villain until Goku arrives team, the main character role for a change.
Exactly!!
I think people like this aspect of the Garlic Jr. saga. They just dislike the execution of it. The Garlic Jr. saga also does a lot for Gohan’s character development up through the end of the Cell Saga.
@@bellowingsilence the only thing that is confusing about the Garlic Jr saga is that most of the movies don't fit in the timeline, so it's kind of weird to acknowledge some of the movies in the show. Dead Zone at least makes sense if it takes place one year before Raditz, but it does add a continuity error where Krillin was surprised to find out Goku has a kid before Raditz shows up. Tree of Might just doesn't fit in the timeline at all, so it's weird Icarus is there.
Finally. Somebody said it. I love this version of the event so much more.
Thank you for explaining this topic better than i ever could, ive gotta show this to my buddy.
"I am no warrior and I will never fight again" was such a impactful line. Obviously in modern DBS it didnt mean anything but at the time it was crazy to hear that out of him.
I like this change too it’s really awesome seeing other z fighters help defeat perfect cell.
A lot of good points I never thought of. I always saw it as it made the rest of the Z Fighters look even more useless that they couldn't even touch Cell due to crazy power scaling.
See I liked it because it showed that regardless of how weak the other Z-Fighters were and how little it might do they weren't going to just let Gohan lose and the earth be destroyed laying down. They were going to help in whatever way they could. I don't necessarily think that they did it with the intention of "convincing Vegeta" but seeing them all abandon their pride for the sake of a common goal convinced Vegeta to do the same.
This pops up while I'm watching the lost series you made haha
Good stuff, keep it up
Thanks man, will do!
@@velodushonestly I kind of like how TFS actually explained how in their version of Dragon Ball Z how the scene actually played out does let's be real if the other characters were doing their ultimate attacks on cell during that moment he would have been killed just like it was when Vegeta helped Gohan out in the manga. not to discredit your opinion rating yes I do like the fact that they did help in the manga though.
Great analysis I never thought of this!
Glad you made this. This is hands down better
Hey thanks!
I wish DBZA left this moment in
I've never read the manga, I didn't know that. And you're right, this is an AWESOME change. One of the best moment in the entire anime/manga. Very deep moment... ⭐
Ah dbz at its peak back when the z fighters where relevant
I've watched the anime front to back probably 6 times, but I'm not a Manga reader.
Today I learned that people don't like the Z Fighters attacking Cell! Lol.
It does answer the question of why so many Cell vs Gohan beam struggle vids on TH-cam cut those parts out and edit to make it seem like only Vegeta attacks Cell.
This scene is my top scene in the entire show as well. I can't imagine it happening any other way than Z Fighters trying, failing, and Vegeta slowly putting his pride aside after seeing them get thrown aside by Cells' power.
I've enjoyed other anime, and other scenes certainly make me hype, but I still get goosebumps still to this day when I even think about this episode of DBZ. Even when Krillin asks where Piccolo's mind went, thinking he could do anything to Cell, and Tien says "He didn't think he could, buy he tried to anyway." as his energy starts swirling around him and you know that Tien has already made up his mind that he's going to try as well.
So, so, so good.
"Now's your chance!"
"AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!"
I'm total agreement. It would just feel weird if they never did anything - especially Piccolo. Like Piccolo was ready to go down and fight Cell when Cell was squeezing Gohan, it'd just feel really inconsistent to me if he just sat back and didn't do anything the whole time the beam struggle was happening.
Where can I watch the version with falconer music? I want my kids to experience what I did with DBZ.
If you look for any big torrents of the show from big anime torrent sites, they'll pretty much all come with the Faulconer score as one of the audio tracks (as well as usually the english dub w/ the Japanese score too). It's a shame it's not on some of the newer Funi releases or on Crunchy Roll, but fans are very good about including the Faulconer score in them.
TFS posits the argument that it takes away from Vegeta's development, and I can sorta agree.
@Velodus argues that Vegeta's pride was broken when Cell knocked him down, but that's not true, his pride had been _consistently_ taking a beating throughout this entire saga.
He _starts_ the saga low, and rides an extreme high when he comes back with Super Saiyan. After this, every minor victory he achieves is followed with a crippling loss. He takes down 19, then he gets knocked down several pegs when 18 wore him down then broke his arm. Then he tears apart Second Stage Cell, but is convinced to let him become Perfect Cell, who then proceeds to completely dismantle Ascended Vegeta. At this point, you can argue that Vegeta's pride is already completely dead. If he still had his pride, he'd have entirely been all for challenging Perfect Cell again at the Cell Games, but no, he actually waits for Goku.
The scene at the end completely flips that script. When he attacks Cell again, it was his _first_ selfless(relatively) action made not out of pride, he did it because Trunks died and he felt rage for someone not himself for the first time(at least, in a long time). Then when he attacked when Cell had his back turned, that was his first actual, _tangible_ victory this entire saga. The third time is a crippling loss followed by a critical victory.
We can't even say it came out of nowhere, Vegeta was already set up for it when Trunks died, he completely threw away his personal pride when he attacked somebody for someone else's sake for the first time ever. And, if there's _one_ thing we can say Vegeta is consistently throughout the entirety of DBZ, it's that he's stubborn. He's not going to let the his failure to avenge his son deter him, he's already committed himself to this path. And that's before even considering other factors that would aid in pushing him into making this decision.
Honestly, I personally believe it depends on what you value in a narrative, but not all fans or enjoyers of the material simply hate all additions as filler. I don't necessarily dislike this scene, but I do think that the Vegeta only version is ultimately better for his development.
@@aliesterus1.023You make some great points. I would say the filler does somewhat detract from Vegeta’s moment of individual development in this scene, but given his trajectory in the early Buu saga, it’s an entirely valid inclusion. As it turns out, this wasn’t *supposed* to be Vegeta’s defining moment of selflessness. He really doesn’t reach it until the final battle against Kid Buu in the manga.
The filler then serves as an elegant bridging moment that qualifies Vegeta’s actions here. Vegeta, having developed a connection with his son too late, now sees the rest of the dragon crew give everything they have for the sake of Gohan. He doesn’t yet connect with them on a personal basis, but he *does* connect with their actions, and this is what moves him to make the conscious choice to help.
As someone who's read the manga and watched anime, the added scenes and episodes do so much to add to the overall narrative. The characters and world feel so much more fleshed out. The manga is iconic but personally, scenes like these make the anime legendary
Thanks for watching for all these years!
Watch ippo my boy
my favourite scene of all time. ive always loved real world war stories where a soilder or soilders would. Like the Australians in Tobruk in WW2 or Tien holding back cell
Was not expecting the video to be THIS GOOD. Also, hell yeah, filler is cool
Hey thanks, and I agree!
Excelent moment! I didn't know it wasn't canon
It was their planet before it was Vegeta's. Vegeta wasn't fully an Earth protector at that point, he was still doing right things for the wrong reasons or doing things for his ego sake. I agree that the moment was made better by everyone attacking Cell. I've always liked the other team members because I watched OG Dragonball when I was younger, so I'm partial to the others 😊
Great video! I enjoy hearing you talk about DBZ and shows you're passionate about.
Thanks! I should absolutely make more anime videos
The original Z with all that has been deemed filler felt so much more personal and connected with me on a personal level because the original dub made them feel like real people with real lives and feelings. I get it if you’re a Japanese purist and only like what was in the manga or Kai dub, but for me regardless if it’s nostalgia talking, the Americanized original version of DBZ is what I love and connect to emotionally, not the version where Goku is selfish, dumb, and childish.
Agreed. They're Earth's guardians. It doesn't matter if they're going to die, they're going to fight either way (even Krillin, whose nervous jitters are often played for comic relief).
It is so funny that you uploaded this today. I was rewatching your Lost series when you did! I'm not as big of a DB fan, but a great friend of mine is and I'm happy to share it with him. I haven't seen this video yet but I have to be honest; your attention to critical details, structure and prose, has been as influential to me in a nonfiction sense as something like Battlestar or Breaking Bad is in a fictional sense. You really took a show I enjoyed, like Lost, and applied critical thinking that I hadn't been really "taught" yet. I was in high school when you were uploading it for the first time, so it ended up teaching me WAY more about how to write and how to coherently organize a massive amount of information while remaining engaging. I know it's probably weird to hear some random guy on the internet tell you just how much of a profound impact you had on their early growth, so I won't drone on forever, but I do want to say: THANK you. It's helped me practically, with my own writing, and in finding my own speaking voice, but it also really helped me swiftly analyze newer shows (it's almost like a superpower - I can see when a show is going to pull a Lost WAY earlier than most, now, and I'm right about 80% of the time, haha.) It saves me a TON of time on all accounts and frees me up for other projects, and other people. Thank you for your efforts, and I'm always interested in the other content you put out (like your video on Dune, for example, or the Batman v Superman analysis.) Grace and peace, good sir!
Awe, thanks man!
Just one example of how the filler only helps Z. A rare accomplishment in anime indeed. DB sure was special. Garlic Junior was great fun, imo. What a way to tease out the time til we saw Goku again.
I have to point out, however, Jackson's non canon take on Helms Deep undermines the feats of not only Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas by inserting Elves who were never there, but the entirety of the people of Rohan in general. Good movies, bad adaptations.
3:14 imagine how cool it’d be if Tien and Yamcha had Ultimate forms.
RIP Akira Toriyama-sensei 🐉
11:40 my filler fights always end like this
This always has been one of my favourite scenes in the series, filler or not. The idea of guys so much weaker standing and doing everything they can to save the planet, it really feels like a reward to the viewer if you've been watching since the beginning for these characters to be involved in this scene. It ups the scene in every way compared to just Vegeta helping Gohan, though Vegeta actually saying sorry to Gohan and helping deal the finishing blow is also awesome for his character.
Orginal idea was that Z-Fighters are standing side by side with Gohan just like in Brolly 2nd encounter movie with Goku, Goten & Gohan. It was dropped due difficulties in drawing this scene. One of the best moments in DBZ maybe even in Anime
This was an amazing video theres one point you forgot to mention,
didn't Kai actually keep the good filler you mentioned as an example? Like this scene?
Hey thanks! It did, although I guess one could hypothetically argue that some of it was kept in because it was so intertwined w the anime that it was inexorable - like Gregory for instance, who's another anime-exclusive addition I liked.
The only problem I have with the scene is that them all attacking makes it harder to believe that vegeta caught Cell off guard but aside from that detail I agree that it's better
How so? Cell knocked them all out, and he assumed Vegeta's pride wouldn't let him do anything. Plus the fact that Cell kicked his ass minutes prior.
@@alicepbg2042 You do know the first couple attacks from piccolo, krillin, Yamaha, and tien did no damage right?
This was definitely one of the best scenes added in the anime that wasn't in the manga that outdid it. But that being said, it caused some confusion for me, even as a kid watching it. Everyone the whole time is trying to blast Cell and does nothing to him, he eaily pushes them away, then here comes Vegeta who throws a blast at Cell and manages to distract him and is somehow surprised at Vegeta, right after everyone else did that same thing. It's another one of those filler scenes that doesn't mesh well with the manga adapted stuff. I also wish the anime didn't show the part of Vegeta getting ready to join the battle because his appearance was supposed to be a surprise for the audience. Aside from those little issues, this episode is one of my favorites.
Probably the canon explanation is that its Vegeta. Who would expect Vegeta to suck it up and help Gohan? When he’s currently one of the strongest Z Fighters on top of that, thats why it’d surprise Cell.
It makes sense though? The others were annoying him because they were too weak to damage so it makes perfect sense for him to be legitimately caught off guard because unlike them Vegeta CAN have an impact because he is much stronger and because he is distracted. Also it helps because up until this point in the saga Vegeta has been an unhelpful c*nt so of course him actually doing something good is gonna be shocking lol
Great video.
Hey thanks!
@@velodus you’re welcome ^w^
I agree
The anime improved the Manga here
My perspective on the issue of canon vs filler is this: If it's not in the original manga, it didn't happen in the story and counts as filler. However, just because something is filler doesn't mean it doesn't enhance the story being told. There can be such a thing as good filler and bad filler. Take the Super Saiyan transformation scene when Goku transforms for the first time on Namek for example; in the manga the transformation is very quick and to the point. In the anime, the scene gets a bit drawn out to really put emphasis on and focus on Goku's emotional turmoil and Freeza's shock and horror at what he knows he's witnessing Goku turning into. It did not happen that way canonically in the story, but I still prefer it. It's way better that way, and helps cement that scene was way more iconic than it ever could have been if they had remained perfectly faithful to the manga.
Basically what I'm saying is just because something is or isn't canon doesn't mean it is or isn't quality. Canon only means that it's what officially happened in the narrative, it doesn't mean that another interpretation couldn't be an improvement despite not being canon.
Sounds like maverick talk to me....
Nah im jk, u arent wrong
I definitely prefer this ovr the others just sitting on their ass as an 11 year old single handled fights for their and his survival.
That shit never sat right with me
Spot on man
Thank you kindly!
The more I think about DBZ and the differences not only between manga and anime, but even dub vs subs, the more I realize there is no 'perfect' dragon ball canon.
you cooked bro, you've earned a like! Also vegeta not smirking but being unsatisfied in the anime works way better when you think about Majin Vegeta's speech. About how humiliated he felt that a low class warrior's son surpassed him AND as a child. Btw I understand Vegeta's speeches are dub only and not in the manga or sub but they're iconic BECAUSE they were added and they all build up to that amazing moment 🔥
I loved it because the Z fighters wouldn't stand there and let Gohan die after they saw Goku die they would try their hardest rather than just standing there letting Gohan take the full brunt of the attack
Personally I actually liked a lot of the additions the anime made to the Cell saga, ignoring the additional Mr. Satan ripoffs they added. Aside from that, they had a lot of really good changes. Like actually seeing Vegeta go SSJ. Gohan actually gets buildup and focus as a character before the final confrontation.
Dragon Ball as a whole does have a lot of fairly inspired filler, I remember that's the only time they made Chi-Chi contribute to an adventure.
I do agree with the sentiment that the Frieza saga absolutely did NOT have good filler, that's kind of inherent to the Frieza saga as a story being this high-stakes intense time-sensitive rush for the Dragon Balls.
There is very little filler is either DB or DBZ. We just put up an episode with several scenes that are anime specific, which we believe add to the story we covered, Korin Tower.
The issue is the same studio put filler in that showed that the z fighters attacks were so insigficant to normal perfect cell that he didn't even notice when they attacked him. They had Krillin and Trunks wail on him with repeated attacks and a destructo disc only for him to literally ignore them whilst he admired his new body. So in keeping in line with that SUPER perfect cell should have been able to just stand there beam battling with Gohan they whilst they all blasted him and he shouldn't have even reacted let alone blasted them away (which should have killed everyone barring Picollo anyway as Cell can one shot them all easily)
I made a similar comment. This was my first thought as well
The best thing to compare it is to how you can be concentrating in an activity, be it videogames, a movie or anything else, and there is a fly buzzing around the room.
That fly cannot do anything to you, at most it can land on you and make you swat it away.
That is essentially what the Z-fighters are doing to Cell. They aren't inflicting any significant damage on him, but given that Gohan was putting more of a fight than he expected he needed to fully concentrate, it adds to his growing frustration.
Exceptionally Great Vid. Very inspirational. I’m sure u know. All filler in Kai is Canon, synonymous to the manga. Just subscribed notifications bell on!!!
Awe thanks! That's awesome of ya!
Me too, but would have been better if they had combined their attacks with Gohan´s Kamehameha
Beutiful art
Despite them being weaker and the situation near hopeless, the Z fighters still fought and tried to help. Never given up!
This video helped me understand this scene on a deeper level. The Z-fighters despite being weaker still helped.
I noticed Vegeta assisting in Cell's defeat was much different when he was processing Goku's death and gives up on fighting.
Oh yay the Z-fighters never jump yay Cell was a threat. That was the only time i ever saw them do that. Well except when the fought Broly in the movie.
5:03 Woah, look how huge Krillin is compared to 18.
it was an improvement.. would have been awesome if Piccolo used a fully charged special beam cannon though...
I thought it was awesome and touching that everyone that was left to fight cell was at one point against Goku. Yamcha tried robbing Goku in the desert and tricking him and Bulma to give him the Dragonballs, Krillin was Gokus first actual rival and was actually pretty mean to him in the first few episodes they met, Tien was basically a menace and wannabe assassin when he was first introduced and hated Goku guts, Piccolo was the literally final major villain of the og Dragonball and the Piccolo we know today was literally born/created to kill Goku and finally Vegeta who was still pretty antagonistic even leading up to the Cell saga. All of them who at one point hated and were against Goku (Vegeta kinda still was lol) were all now giving it their all to save Gokus son and Earth. It basically unified the original series and Z which honestly felt like an actual proper conclusion to the entire series....you know until they told Toriyama to continue it since it was too popular.
There was an explanation i heard years ago as to why the Frieza fight was dragged out as it was, apparently the anime was dangerously close to surpassing the manga so Toei decided to stretch it out as much as possible to give Toriyama more time to finish the arc, I could be wrong though.
I liked the fact the other fighters helped too. Tien has always jumped in when needed so he should have been in it at the very least. I think that its kinda disrespectful that he wasn't in the manga for this. The man has confronted King Piccolo, the first to damage Nappa, held down Semi Perfect Cell, he followed Piccolo to help Gohan with Cell with no hesitation, he even confronted Buu when he realized he was the only person left that could even try. Then they shit on him in Super. Dude has a Dojo continuing marital arts while Krillin stops training and becomes a cop and somehow is the strongest human and give him several wins t the TOP and make Tien have to eliminate himself to get one elimination. That was just a little rant, but my point is, if Cell is about to defeat Gohan, there is no way Piccolo at the very least would sit back and just watch Gohan get overpowered and neither would Tien. Yamcha and Krllin not helping would be totally understandable, but Tien and Piccolo? The disrespect.
Not only that, but that episode where you find out about his dojo in Super is like... the worst episode of that show by far. It's so bad and all the Roshi stuff in it is creepy and uncomfortable. Plus, I've always seen Tien as a guy who'd just live in total isolation with Chiaotzu if there was never any threat to earth, so seeing him as a teacher was kind weird to me.
@@velodus It was weird. Tien, Roshi, and Goku Its like the new writers watched DBZA and thought Goku was actually braindead and continued writing their characters that way lol.
I agree. The anime did it better with everyone contributing.
Vegeta attacking Cell by himself while everyone else sat by was the closing arc for Vegeta being a good father. His attack on Cell was like the last “F.U.” Get back he did, it was in line with his characters pride in his family.
The participation trophy every one gets a shot at cell while Vegeta does nothing just devalues vegeta whole father arc for literally no other reason other than to make the other Z fighters seem less useless than they were.
Different eyeballs were also on the manga. Torishima ( Toriyama’s editor) was the main reason why Dragonball makes somehow sense. He left after the Cell saga and it shows in the Buu saga since the narrative arc made no sense.
A good amount of hatred towards changes and filler is from other series that either ended prior to the source material's conclusion or buying time and make seasons of filler that amount to nothing of note. Another good addition to the Android and Cell Saga they did was show Goku and Gohan's training in the Time Chamber.
the filler hate comes from people caring too much about "Toriyama accurate" and "canon", also the GT PTSD, 90% of the community hates GT with a burning passion
One thing that doesn't make sense to me is how a severely injured Vegeta got anywhere near them. Piccolo was already near Vegeta's strength level and not injured, and Vegeta was base form in the manga. Piccolo helping distract Cell for Gohan would've felt so much deeper. As for Vegeta's attack messing with Cell's aura, it's so weak in the manga literally Cell just turns his head lol
I've seen others say something similar to this and my reading is that it doesn't really have to do with strength and power levels in this moment. For me, the reason Vegeta disrupted Cell in a way the others didn't is because Cell never imagined Vegeta would do it, whereas the others doing something to help Gohan was in line with how they'd act and something he could've anticipated. Like Cell wasn't prepared for Vegeta because it's so out of character for him to do this selfless act that in that moment - when Cell was putting everything he had into finally overpowering Gohan - Vegeta's blast caught him off guard. And so Vegeta essentially saves the because he ascended to the same level of selflessness as the others, in a way that Cell - a person with Vegeta's cells and knows exactly how he thinks - didn't anticipate. It's Vegeta becoming more human, in a way, that saves the day.
@@velodus yeah the anime definitely does this whole thing better. I get the blast was so big, but that still doesn't mean none of them could attack from a distance like Vegeta did, though he was closer in the anime like everyone else. It's just hard to follow the logic that they couldn't be anywhere near it when yaji was watching Goku and Vegetas beam clash. I think he got knocked back? I don't remember, but he was a fly compared to them. Either way none of them were gonna go out and it's a shame such an iconic scene is like a few pages in the manga. Nice touch showing Gohan actually jump with his Kamehameha, but the walking is far more iconic.
There are a few good things Toei executed better than Toriyama and this is one of them. This is a show about characters pushing past the odds no matter how insurmountable they seem. It bothered me when i read the manga to see the Z-Fighters not even try and just let an 11 year take on this monster on his own. Yes, their attacks don't do shit, but it's a much better narrative to have them TRY and persevere in the face of the death and inspire Vegeta to do the same. Having everything focus on the Saiyans alone sucks, especially when we fell in love with these human characters way before. This moment is the ultimate culmination of everything up to that point from episode 1 for all characters. Not just Goku.
Great video dude. I'm fine with filler if it doesn't contradict anything or undermine the actual circumstances of the story.
I couldn’t agree more with your take, and it always bothers me in other adaptations when you *don’t* see the other Z fighters’ contribution. Most notably with DBZ: Kakarot, which is otherwise an amazing game!
They are warriors and they were going out as such and vegetable man took that personally
Honestly I agree I think the anime is wayyyy better than the manga
It's not about fighting cell, the scene is meant to be a redemption arc for vegeta showing he loves his son. The anime makes this less impactful. Dbz abridged actually does this scene more justice
Becase It makes sense. why would they just stand there and watch???
the problem is with the filler, that piccolo is too weak during this. He is supposed to be a Super-Namek, having fused with Nail and Kami by this time.
Not everybody's born with chad saiajin genetics and potwntial which is why the self sacrifice especially by tien earlier on was very impactful
Actually I think the main thing with vegeta was, yes there was some fear, he been getting punked by cell over n over now, and yes his pride is there, but trunks being killed is really what pushed him. Helping gonna went against everything he believed in, but at this point fuck it dude killed his son right before him, he dies regardless who kills him
I don’t like it because it made them look very weak (especially piccolo) and accomplished nothing, when an injured Vegeta was somehow able to distract him.
The idea is great, don’t get me wrong, but it just ended up being not only pointless, but humiliating. Lame.
Another based vid from reetay37🗿
It emphasizes that Vegeta was the only one other than Trunks that was strong enough to help Gohan.
While I love the anime version with filler way more than the manga version, I disagree that Vegeta wouldn’t have helped without the z fighters first, trunks just died, and Vegeta already attacked cell once, and gohan gave up his arm to save Vegeta, makes no sense Vegeta wouldn’t attack cell when he had the chance, I like to think that he was charging the attack, that’s why it took him a while to hit it.
The final fight between Gohan and cell in the manga was about 5 seconds. The anime was the way it was because it had a bigger Budget and more people working on it. Vegeta needing someone else to kick him into gear instead of him working it out for himself doesn't make him look stronger.
I always thought that it’s dumb how they went behind Cell as they could get killed with Cell if Gohan wins. They should’ve fired ki blasts alongside Gohan instead
Wish I could use the Drake meme template but …
Filler that distracts from the main story: 👎
Filler that enriches the main story: 👍
Pre watch:
Ngl, i never vibed with the notion the Z characters just sat on they ass, grunting and sweating, as an 11 year old with a busted up arm fought ALONE to save them all.
"Cell was too strong"
Guess what? If gohan loses, everyone dies anyway. What do u have to lose? 😂
"Gohan was the only 1 who could handle him"
Gohan is an 11 year old kid. Powerful or not, no grown man should be sitting on his ass watching a pre pubescent CHILD fight for them.
"What could they do?"
Bite the mfs ankles, or heck, have 1 of them dash off and grab dende or make a wish to heal gohan or give him a power boost.
"It had thematic reasons"
Again, there should be no reason the grown men let a child fight their battles. They had multiple ways to help but sat there. And I'd argue it would mean more for everyone that is in cells dna to fight agaisnt him.
I called them Z characters, because the way they sat on they ass while gohan fought alone? Yeah, they are no fighters.
Great video my man. I make smash brothers content if your interested
Red Herring… when people say they don’t like the anime changes, nobody means this specific one. I’ve not yet met a single person who doesn’t like this specific change. People don’t care for Garlic Jr, or Battle of Namek taking three months of real time.
yes the anime handled it better
the video is literally, "why I like fillers"
To a moron that can't think critically, sure.
@@Don-fw3nv 13:45 "reason #5 why this change was good: is that it makes the episode longer"
Time-stamped so even you can find it.
@@thomasbane0That doesn’t invalidate anything he said at all?
Honestly my problem with Kai....the acting
the voice acting, atleast with Funimation, is undeniably better
there are so many OG Z moments in the dub that just feel so cringey or cheesy to listen to, that was reduced massively in the Kai dub
@@ChaosAttorney”your shoes are untied..”
“Nice try, but I’m not even wearing laces.”
“Perhaps I underestimated you.”
@@voiceunderthecovers IS THAT ACTUALLY AN INTERACTION..?
@@voiceunderthecovers NO WAY, IT'S ACTUALLY REAL
th-cam.com/video/ZnriaELk_pw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=fLirS_IL5mVlWPRo
Bad filler. In the earlier filler...not even trunks could make cell budge while him and krillin attacked him. In this filler...somehow they were able to distract cell despite the even larger power gap at this point. They wouldnt be able to tickle cell.
I don’t care what anyone says. Anything that put the humans in a well deserved good light is always good.
@EWOODJ "I don't care what anyone says"...well I'm not going to debate someone else's emotions because that's pointless. The humans are tested and proven already and don't need filler scenes to get their respect.
One filler being bad doesn't mean the other filler isn't good the real issue is that they spoil the surprise of Vegeta's attack
@boredomkiller99 filler is filler. Most of the "the writing is bad/power levels don't make sense" arguments stem from filler.
@@alicepbg2042 name 2 examples.
I dislike it for the Exact same reason, but different understanding. Not a single one of the Z-Fighters' attacks did Nothing. I want to believe if they all helped, they could match up to Vegeta. Instead, it makes you all understand, "Not a one of these people are important enough in the story. It's a Saiyan Show from here on." And the worst part is, YEAH, it becomes a Super Saiyan Bargain Sale. Not a Single one of them mattered, yet if you try to say "They inspired Vegeta to do it!" Then you rob Vegeta's Character Turn of his agency. Vegeta attacking by himself is showing he is willing to be Second fiddle, that he's willing to be part of something better. Instead the Anime gives you just what you said, it's shaming him into it. It's not his choice.
The "Smile" he has you point out, could be a Smile yes, but face squish on the anime hides his mouth entirely, and combined with every panel after that, Vegeta is down cast, gritting his teeth, and generally upset has the same furrowing of his brow. His expression didn't change, it's face squish that matches the same general upwards turn that his mouth takes when he's gritting teeth in your next anime scene.
The thing you're so easily glossing over, is that both of Vegeta's attacks on Cell after he comes back even more Perfect, is because as soon as Trunks was just shot to death. The second cell comes back, everyone turns to look at Cell, but the second Cell attacks and kills Trunks, Vegeta's attention is only on Trunks. Everyone else is grunting or quaking in fear, but Vegeta only says Trunks' name, and Damn you for the next two chapters, until he apologizes to Gohan. The first attack is showing that Beneath all his egotism, he does care about trunks. It started with Trunks blasting him making him proud of him, and after a ten day skip, he's here enraged at the loss of his child. AND not to mention, The FIRST attack that he did caused Cell to tense up and defend himself. It shows that Vegeta's rage boost put him in a space where he's a danger to Cell again.
And the gang up doesn't make him more imposing. Instead, it makes look Him weak. His Cell Jr.s were rocking the Z-fighter's worlds, and yet here they can stand up over and over after being knocked down. That's not imposing, that's not awestriking. You know what makes an enemy imposing? Gohan saying vegeta's given up. Piccolo howling to the heavens, cursing that he's not strong enough. That even though Gohan is willing again to try thanks to Goku's contribution, the third strongest fighter on the hero's side is calling for everyone to run away because it's too dangerous, they start running, and yet are still blasted away. All three years of preparation and a life time of fighting, and they're STILL NOTHING. That is what is shown in the Manga. You lose that by making everyone willing to keep fighting. That they could even help or be seen as nuisance makes Cell less imposing. It ESPECIALLY makes Gohan less heroic, because in the Manga, he alone stood up to save them, finally losing that cowardice he had as a child and gaining the courage to be strong. Cell being less imposing and the rest of the gang being up and ready to fight at a moment's notice ruins that.
And there's something about Pacing, I'd love to leave you with. Every fight with Supersaiyan in the Manga, lasts less than a few chapters, if that. The anime bloats it constantly, but the fights aren't slow. The fights Toriyama did were fast paced, explosive, and short. Because this was no fight. It was a Domination. SSJ2 Gohan obliterated Perfect Cell, and it took a confidence boost from dad, and an eleventh hour distraction (That's all it was, it wasn't even damaging to Cell) for Gohan to win. In the Anime, the fights are drawn out, and characterizations can be lost. For instance, remember how I told said Vegeta in the Manga, from the second Trunks got shot to apologizing to Gohan, he uttered not a single word save "Damn you" other than his son's name. The anime makes him cry about his pride and his being overshadowed, and that's honestly not the point. I would honestly point out that the fact that each and every movie villain was a copy paste of what was going on in the manga/anime at the time to show you that not a single one of the anime's writing staff is *good* at writing, and yet they're embellishing something that was already good, and not always with more good. Sometimes you get great work like the first Broly Movie. But then you get literal steaming piles of poo that are the Third Broly movie.
It's all subjective so you're entitled to your opinion, even if I disagree with it of course, haha. I will just note though that in the anime, that screenshot where you see Vegeta hanging in midair that's in kinda the same pose as the manga frame he was smiling in was moved, in the anime, to be immediately before Piccolo talked to him - indicating that he was upset and moping, whereas in the manga, that frame of him smiling was right after Gohan won and everyone else was smiling too. (I just felt the need to mention that since that anime screenshot was positioned in such a way that when you see it, you can totally infer he's not smiling, but that it might not be clear unless you've just rewatched the scene.) But like I said, everything else is totally subjective!
It’s bad
"padding out a scene is good" the video.
That is beyond reductive. Utterly useless comment.
@@playstationarusu did you even watch the last quarter of the video? He knows that that's exactly what he's saying. Maybe consider lobotomy.
@@playstationarusu Truly
@@playstationarusu 13:45 "reason #5 why this change was good: is that it makes the episode longer"
Time-stamped so even you can find it.
@@thomasbane0 So you're saying that a point made 13 minutes in is basically the whole video and you don't see how that's reductive?