I’m just a dumb truck driver. I typically run from St Louis, MO to Boise, ID, then often down to Rifle, CO before heading over Vail back to MO. Of course if I run out of fuel, I’m not going to crash. But running around in the Rockies weather is a huge factor. If I run out of fuel during a storm, I could freeze to death. I have many more opportunities to get fuel than a pilot might, but for either, it has to be a top priority. They’re extremely lucky nobody died. No excuse!!!
I just watched a video yesterday about a group of 20 something year olds (pilots and non-pilots) who got together and bought a Cessna Citation jet. They picked it up somewhere east and had to fly it to Phoenix. The 'kids' really impressed me at their maturity even on buying their new 'toy' but I digress. They had their fuel stops planned and even knew the prices at the places they were going to stop at. I am sure you as a truck driver would have appreciated their concern over planning their stops for fuel as well as concern over fuel costs.
As a student pilot part of my preflight for any cross country trip is fuel planning. It's relatively easy these days with ForeFlight on an iPad. Do your W&B, flight plan/route, and how much reserve fuel you want. Pilot absolutely should have known he needed a fuel stop along the way. Zero percent chance he wouldn't.
Totally agree. I'm pretty good at avoiding fuel starvation in my cars, I actually take that quite seriously. How someone could screw that up in an aircraft is beyond comprehension.
Wow. Same story with the 340 over and over again. I have owed and an idendical 340A since 1988. Fuel burn is an issue. The balance is between max takeoff weight and range. A continued checkup on actual fuel burn and ETA is critical! The unstated contributing issue is that the pilot was using a higher power setting that needed. Slow the aircraft down by 15 knots and he would have made the destination but taken 10 minutes longer.
3:10 Not only did he miss it.... 45 minutes earlier, he was flying to and over Tulsa Intl (KTUL) where fuel is avail 24x7 .....and the only winner is the salvage yard!
And a bit before that, Wichita. I assume there’s 24/7 fuel there as well. While it would be cool as F to run out of fuel during the taxi as an OH SHIT story, that should only happen after one has declared an emergency. It doesn’t count if you make it happen by brute negligence.
…and maybe the other winners will be the public (on the ground) , and the reputation of the Responsible pilots, who use their brain and exercise good judgement to just land and ‘get some gas’ !!! This guy sounds like another wealthy pilot who spent a lot of money. That’s a very nice sophisticated equipment, but can’t back it up with the training in the experience in the devotion to studying what could go wrong and exercising good judgment… I hope the FAA takes his/her ticket and… keeps it
With three kids on a four hour plane trip, why wouldn't you automatically plan on a stop mid-way? Refuel while everybody goes to the bathroom and stretches.
Yes. The pilot’s carelessness is more than annoying. Risking lives of others, especially children who have no choice but to come along, when a calculator (or even doing it in your head!) would have prevented this.
@ I’m not a pilot, but I thought part of the training WAS that you HAD to allow that. You might have to divert from an airport or go around a bit if some issue came up on the ground.
@mapleext Well you do "have" to, but there is absolutely no mechanism for preemptive enforcement of the reserve requirement. The requirement is only "enforced" by training and common sense.
I fly by the bladder. I take off with full fuel, 2-3 hours flight time, and I'm on the ground. Refueling, using the bathroom, and eating if need be. I've been doing this for 25 years. I think that i might just be onto something....
@@Muggles87not good enough. Fuel burn needs to be part of the flight plan conducted well before the airplane’s engines are even started. This is mandatory.
I drove by this crash site this past weekend. I saw the rear of the T-33 on the ground but the crashed aircraft had been removed. I could not understand how the tail of the T-33 could have been ripped off. Little did I know such a crazy aircraft accident was the cause. I'm a commercial instrument pilot plus an ex-Air Traffic Controller so I have seen many aircraft incidents but this has got to be one of the weirdest of them all. I love the quote of a mid-air between two aircraft, both with no fuel on board!
Reminds me of how the Feds. finally caught that very smart New Jersey piliot running huge planeloads of coke out of Columbia, going straight through with extended fuel tanks. The p./u illegal was so stoned on the benefits of transport he parked the p/u truck ON the grass runway and the plane hit it.
Concerning the tail of the T-33 detaching, I believe the tail cone is removable to access the engine, so the connection of the tail cone to the rest of the fuselage may be a weak point. Also, given the use of the aircraft as a display piece, the various sections of the plane may not have been fully bolted up.
It's starting to look like it might be becoming necessary. The number of incidents recently that managed to involve immobile aircraft is a little worrying, a lot of GA flying is VFR so you'd hope other aircraft would be easy to spot for pilots... What I would like to know is what genius thought putting a pole-mounted display aircraft 3300 feet off the end of a runway AND on the extended centre line was a good idea??? 🤔🤦 That's as dumb as a box of rocks. It was inevitable someone was going to hit it eventually. Still, the pilot is now one of a, I imagine, vanishingly small number of pilots able to record having a mid-air collision with a static aircraft in their logbook 🙄🤦👏
Reminds me of that Avto RJ85 (La Mia 2944) that ran out of fuel prior to landing in Medellin, Colombia and wiped out most of a football/soccer team. The commander (chief pilot, aircraft owner and airline exec IIRC) had indeed done it before and got away with it. A minor delay resulted in fuel exhaustion. He again decided against en-route refuelling.
I'm a retired truck driver in Australia I always dipped the fuel tanks on my truck before leaving on an overnight run. Same principles apply but more so in aviation.
This wasn't a pilot not checking his tanks which weren't full, this was a pilot assuming he had enough fuel to make it and ignoring the basic stuff they teach you in flight school, the kind of stuff that takes 30 seconds on a calculator that Juan just did the first two steps of in this very video. This guy needs to be grounded, this was 100% negligence and he put his own family at risk in being such a careless person. A minute of flight planning would have told him that with the fuel burn that aircraft is capable of he doesn't have adequate reserves. Your reserves are non-negotiable, they aren't there because the FAA is a pain in the ass (the FAA are a pain!) they're there because you need extra fuel in case things aren't "as planned"
One can only shake one's head at this one and the other similar fuel starvation accidents. I was first on the scene for the crash of a 152 a block from my house in 1994 where the plane hit 100 ft high treetops and then power lines attempting landing on my street with densely populated housing (the pilot was seriously injured but survived). He was returning from on a long distance flights, but never bothered to check the fuel level before departing on his flight back. In another instance, I was a passenger sitting behind the pilot (who was a friend) in a Cessna 206 returning from a long distance flight and noticed that one fuel gauge was pegged on empty and the other bouncing on empty about 5 minutes before landing... when I pointed this out to the pilot, he said "don't worry, I calculated the fuel burn beforehand and we should have enough fuel to make it" -- needless to say, I never flew with him again. I don't get it -- why do some GA pilots treat fuel with seemly little more seriousness than when driving a car?
First hand experience and thanks for sharing...I was once at the airport, back comes this "pilot"/farmer...he had been flying in the highlands of Iceland looking for sheep most of the day, with him 3 other oblivious farmers/observers..aircraft c172 hawk xp 50 gal.tanks(about 200liters) He starts pumping with the intent of filling the tanks..comes the time he has pumped 198 liters...he utters"how much fuel can this thing hold anyway " shortly thereafter it was full...how lucky can you get???
We used to run ours at three hours. If our destination was three hours and fifteen minutes away we landed after two hours and filled up. Hopefully this pilot learned something.
On my aircraft, if there’s any tilt to the a/c, for example topping off one wing first, or a sloped ramp, you can short fuel the plane by 10%. It’s full only if the wings are level when you check.
And I’m proud to land on E here in Muskogee Where runnin’ our tanks dry is such a ball We land on fumes and coast up to the fuel pump And dead stick landing’s are the biggest thrill of all
Thanks Juan, I think I sold 57C decades ago, to a guy in Nevada or NorCal as I recall but it may have been another similar 340. You are pretty close on the fuel estimates Juan, but the old 340 wthout the RAM conversions I've had typically burned about 28 to 30 gallons per hour at 60-65% power and 4 hours legs max is what I normally planned for in stock fuel 340's, and about half-way or 2/3 of the way into the flight re-figuring on making a fuel stop or proceeding. To get your 4 hrs + reserve, you need to force feed all the tanks, to the top go high, run at economy cruise and lean hard, and be ready to switch back to mains when the aux tanks run dry to get all the aux fuel. One or two locker tanks is sort of a must on a 340 if you are 500 nautical mile runs.
The pilot had a little bit of dumb luck as he hit the T-33 (P-80 two seater) just where he did. If he'd had been a foot or so closer to the cockpit area, he WOULD have probably cartwheeled. Those era of single engine fighters were designed with a removable tail empenage section, held on with four bolts or nuts and the control cables. You can see the break is pretty much a clean bulkhead. These tails came off to remove/replace OR just get access to the fuselage mounted engine, so it was common. Also fortunate as per normal static display prep, the engine is usually always removed prior to putting on blocks or the pedestals, otherwise he would have hit a very dense piece of metal tailpipe instead of just a monocoque shell. Was fortunate to work the F-105 Thunderchief my first three years in the USAF, and removed a few J-75's.
They definitely should be counting their blessings this holiday season. That could have ended up so much worse. Thanks Juan, appreciate all that you do. Cheers!
After I diverted and landed at SPA VRF with only 30 min. of fuel for a C172 (4 gal) back in 1979, I never flew anywhere without 1 hour of reserve fuel.
I am even worse in my Cirrus sr 22 I always left with full tanks and really full.. and stopped at half tanks.. and for sure never below 20 gallons ( two hours) in the mountain west 45 minutes is simply not enough airports can be much father apart than out there in the flat land country.
@@bj8342 Its the same situation driving in Florida during hurricane season. A mass evacuation can drain the supply at all the local gas stations for a week or more.
"One might have assumed that with its flying days long finished, and minding its own business at the top of a pole, that a peaceful retirement was assured..." Until along came a Cessna 340.....KABLAMMO!
Looking at data from flighradar24, over the past year the plane has made four trips that were 30 minutes or longer than this flight, and two more that were about as long as this one. He probably felt confident this flight would be no different. Problem here is that this particular flight is near the max range of the aircraft. It's one of those that goes from "you'll have plenty of reserve" to "you're out of fuel 100 miles out" depending on all the various factors. Still, there really is no excuse for running out of fuel like this. We live in an age where you not only have every single map you could ever need on an ipad at a low enough price that even hobbyist flight sim types can afford it, but that it will even tell you fuel prices at every single airport along your route. It's easier than ever to make the right decision but this guy said, "Nah, we'll make it."
I often fly from the Chicago area to northern Florida in a Piper Comanche and I can tell you after 4 hours of non stop flying I begin to make stupid mistakes. Fatigue plays a major role in these accidents. I have learned that stoping and refueling makes a huge difference. Stop rest for 20 minutes and then continue. Also on long flights, you need to lower your stress levels, good VFR weather or an easy instrument approach with plenty of fuel in the tanks makes all the difference
I've been keeping track of my fuel usage since I bought my P baron in 2018 in a spreadsheet. Fuel burn in actual flight (hobbs only works when weight is off the wheels) is 40 Gal/Hour. P Baron has similar engines to the C-340.
Yep, and every pilot should do what you do when they're doing long flights. Every pilot has a smartphone or a computer, every smartphone can run a spreadsheet app like mobile excel. Punching the numbers in while planning the flight takes seconds and can tell you if you're meeting reserves with an elementary school level equation.
Sometimes it’s hard to leave a smooth cruise, especially when up high, to land 100NM short for fuel as it’ll add at least an hour to the trip time. Pilots must always remember that no one will remember that extra hour but everyone will remember the crash!
Juan, Did you see that the LAST surviving world's largest flying boat "The Philippine Mars," a Martin JRM Mars, is trying to make its final flight from British Columbia to be retired at the Pima Air and Space Museum in Tucson? It was an aerial forest firefighting tanker since the 1950s and retired in 2015. There are background videos and updates on the final flight (it has had to turn back twice due to mechanical issues). A video crew is documenting the final flight for Netflix / The History Channel.
If the C340A has RAM VII like mine, the high power cruise setting should be 42 gallon/hr. Personally, for such a long distance, I would never use high power cruise setting. If I plan for 4 hours of flight, I would use the most economical cruise setting, which is burning 28 gallons/hr. Another important factor here is proper fuel management. When switched to aux (wing) tanks, the fuel returns to the main (tip) tank. If you do not burn enough fuel from the main before switching to aux, excessive return fuel will be vented overboard once the main tank is full..
@SelventaAir easiest way is to run mains low enough so they can't overfill from engine return once you switch to running off auxiliarys. POH has a procedure as well - same as if you want to get all the fuel out of the aux you'll need to run them dry
Juan, so true about "garbage in/garbage out". And I agree, absolutely so lucky with how they hit that, a little further to the right could have been a completely different story. Cheers!
Something the Oklahoma State Fair has on a stick that the Great Minnesota GetTogether doesn't...a little bit of jeal... ...KMSP pilots, DON'T EVEN THINK OF THINKING ABOUT IT! 😅
I'm flying a new Airbus A220-300 from northern New England to South Carolina on Friday. Two professional pilots, two P&W1500G engines. $168 USD round trip. I have not a worry in the world....safer than traveling on an escalator ;-)
As long as the memory of the Gimli Glider exists, I'm always going to have a very slight worry... ...as for the Gimli Glider, if I remember correctly, the crew got both a commendation AND disciplinary action for that unhappy misadventure...
Something tells me he's made the flight by himself before and had plenty of fuel in reserve when he landed and thought he would be fine this trip with his entire family and all their stuff on board.
A major saving for that family was that the T33 did not have an engine installed. If it had, the tail would not have separated as easily, which definitely caused the Cessna to cartwheel - as Juan stated.
That T33 is quite a way from the runway. I’ve seen it from both the air and from the road. The airport committee probably placed it thinking “no way will this cause a problem”.
Lots of small municipal airports in Kansas (and major ones in Wichita) along that flight path, where the pilot could have stopped for a quick gas and go.
Agree 100%. I would like to note however as someone who flies from Illinois to Colorado and Utah frequently in a 210 you never know what kind f anything your gonna get at some of these KS rural airports. Everything from out of fuel, card reader in-op, credit cards not accepted to have to call Bubba and wait while he rides out on his bicycle and unlocks the pumps to the pumps simply don’t work. I’ve found a couple of reliable fuel stops and don’t risk any others . Beatrice Nebraska is the best municipal airport between Peoria and Leadville Co
Juan, it would be interesting on this one to interview the pilot to find out what went wrong with his fuel management........not to criticize him, but so everyone can learn what can happen.......
Oh…It would be interesting to interview ALL the pilots that survived aircraft incidents and accidents to see what they were thinking! But the FAA and NTSB do that but it’s private…
My first instructor told me to always have a cup of coffee before going cross-country. That way, I'd HAVE to land to drain my main before the a/c main(s) ran out of fuel.
Right? I get that landing and fueling isn't quite as simple as pulling off the interstate and topping off at the Pump 'n Munch, but it's just as important to take a break every couple of hours in the air as it is on the highway, especially at night.
He has 181 usable w/fuel locker. Most 340’s & 340A’s have 203, using 6 tanks, his configuration is 5 tanks. Depending upon experience of pilot, it’s a complex fuel system where we need to transfer fuel from the locker aux tanks to the tip mains, early on. Because of the passenger load, his was likely at MTOW with 180 on board. He still would have been encroaching on reserves but I’m betting he failed to transfer fuel from aux tank. I spent 17 years piloting my 340A, commonly from Novato, CA to Lake Tahoe and Bozeman, MT primarily. The last 4 our home base is Boulder, CO, flying to same destinations as well as Madison, WI and Houston, TX to visit kids. The Houston trip would be very similar to this flight. Primarily it would depend upon winds aloft but my burn in Fall would by 17.5-18 gph to KTME, Houston. We upgraded to a KA200GT because the return trip, as well as visiting my daughter in Bainbridge Island was requiring a stop, even with 2 of us and our 2 Samoyed’s. Will be interesting if that 20 gal aux tank was actually fueled in MT. If so, he should not have exhausted his fuel without pilot error or very unusual weather for this time of year.
I have more than a few hours in a C-340A with the same “5 tank” configuration. I was so paranoid of my fuel state because it’s somewhat deceiving that all the fuel is available as needed. The 20g Wing locker tank can only be transferred to the Left side Main….which HAS to have burned down at least 20g from the 50g usable. For this,The electric transfer pump is only authorized to be used in level flight. There is no fuel gauge for the wing locker tank, only an associated operating light ( with the small toggle switch) But after emptying Locker tank to Left Main Wing Tank, now you have 20 extra gallons (times distance of 15 feet) rolling Moment, so you must Re-trim the aileron. Additionally, the 64 gallons Aux fuel (32 per side) cannot be transferred, only direct to associated engine or cross-feed. The 32 g Aux tanks can easily be ran into fuel exhaustion…..and really that is the only way to use all the available fuel. I loved flying the 340A, but i never let my guard down with fuel burn. I had 40 plus years of Lockheeds, McDonald-Douglas, Airbus and Boeings…..Cessna 340 kept me on my toes whole time.
I think we might be missing the big question here though... Which member of the Army Air Corps recruiting office staff is going to be getting the ladder out to go and paint the silhouette of a Cessna 340 with a line through it below the cockpit of the T-33? You know it won't be an officer 😂
I fly a Cherokee Six with four fuel tanks. The stock fuel flow gauge is off by more than two gallons per hour. I installed and calibrated a JPI FS-450 fuel totalizer and came up with a procedure to keep track of where all of the remaining fuel is located. It ties into the GPS navigator and gives (among other things) an estimate of fuel remaining at the destination. After calibration, its fuel burn error is less than 2%. Even though it is a bit expensive, it can save an airplane.
I fly a 340A (Ram VII) and I plan for 42 GPH, although my actual consumption at 19,000 is more like 18-19 GPH a side. This gives me 205-212 TAS at that altitude. But the climb is more like 26-31 GPH a side at 1000 ft per min ROC. He must have been near or a bit over gross for that load with another adult plus the kids, plus some luggage even with full fuel...... The climb should have used about 18 -22 gallons. Then 4 hours at 36 GPH minimum per hour. I come up with the same figures you do....And I have an engine analyzer and cruise LOP. Even with the descent he must have run out of fuel about 15 minutes before reaching the crash site. I never go more than 3 hours without stopping.
Imagine dead sticking your twin at night and you’re about to hit the ground and all of a sudden another airplane appears out of nowhere. Wham bam Uncle Sam!
7:40 Pencil, paper and flight manual fuel burn numbers can also be fallible. Sometimes, an aircraft doesn't get the fuel burn numbers advertised in the flight manual. Ask me how I know.
Absolutely no justification to ever let him fly again! This is a 100% inexcusable offense! Literally ruined his passengers trust and their families trust in GA pilots! I’d never get into a GA aircraft unless I’m the PIC! Don’t care how much “experience” someone professes to have !
I think you mean exhaustion. Fuel starvation indicates a condition where there is fuel available but it is unable to get to the engine, ie failed fuel pump, clogged filter, etc.
@ That is correct. My friend died in a twin engine due to fuel starvation as there was fuel in the tanks but not enough for the maneuver he was doing in a check ride which stalled both engines and at the low altitude there was not enough time to save the plane as it slammed into the ground killing both.
Don't blame him either. Not that keep count, but I reckon easily 50% of the videos he's published this year, the accident in the video could have been prevented by people just being a bit more careful.
Don Ho the singer attributed his success to running out of fuel in an air guard t33/f80. After that he became very disciplined with plan b's always in mind for life in the music business etc.
Its so real to see you using the calculator like this. Im yet to recover from the trauma of EASA exams that i would use it to add 1+1 when I was doing them🤣. Keep up with the great videos.
It may be this incident will mark the end to the pilot's flying career. He may not have the resources to restore the plane or to purchase another one. His insurance company will fight him then likely drop him. The FAA could easily force a reexamination process.
Never could figure out fuel starvation. Years ago my brother in law and sister in law (both pilots) were flying from BWF to CIC to visit us. They ended up at a golf course in Roseburg Oregon… fuel starvation.
I bet this pilot have done the exact same flight with this particular airplane - since it was visiting family - but with less people/weight and/or less headwind and made it without refueling before and maybe even with plenty of fuel left on the tanks. So this time, he just topped it all up without doing the fuel calculation with actual weight/wind for this particular flight.
We just had a T33 on a stand at stoughton wi VFW get hit by a semi 2 weeks ago and it needs an outer section of wing with tip. Maybe arrangements could be made ?
I flew a modified 206 over the Congo jungle for a year before we retired it, and I moved to 208B with G1000. We had a very accurate EDM that included fuel flow and %hp and had CHT for each cylinder and I always cruised at lean of peak. The instrument would tell me minutes of fuel remaining, but I always dipped my tanks before departure and calculated total fuel remaining at a burn rate closer to rich of peak numbers. I preferred to use the flight timer on my transponder to calculate fuel remaining even though my EDM had that capability. I also referenced the quantity gages to keep alert for leaks or abnormal burn.
The T-33 tail is detachable as a unit for engine servicing / replacement That probably helped to get it detached rather than cartwheeling the Cessna ...
I wonder how much target fixation played part of this unlikely low-altitude collision? I've been there. You tend to travel in the direction of what you are looking at, even if your intention is to squeak by. *_Kablamo!_*
From Montana to Oklahoma in 4 hours in a twin engine non-stop seems pretty impressive. Sounds like the plane was purchased specifically to make this trip without stopping. And that becomes a "mindset" problem. "I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on this plane to make it non-stop, therefore I'M NOT STOPPING!" I'm betting that they've made this flight successfully a few times, which made them overconfident. I guess the lesson is, with the varying times spent on the taxiway, rerouting by ATC, as well as different tail wind and head wind scenarios during every single flight, just because you've successfully made the trip once or twice without having the proper reserve fuel amount, doesn't mean that you'll be successful every time. And the consequences for running out of fuel in an airplane are much higher than the consequences for running out of fuel in your car.
You have to be a special kind of YoYo to put yourself and your passengers in harms way like this. You are responsible for their safety. If there's a doubt, divert and fuel up. The pilot had to have looked at his instrument panel, no ones that dumb. No, he saw and decided to push it. Another example of "F around and find out". I score the T-33 with the kill
As someone who has ferried old C-182's (circa 1956 straight tails with 470 , 520 & 550 engines), (NY FL), I have always remembered my CFI's words: "Your time aloft, is just that... TIME - (NOT distance!)." FWIW, if the ETE, on your GPS gizmo, is even close to, never mind GREATER than, the TIME in your tanks, then, my friend you need to review your ADM.
Seems to me if the pilot had made just a slight course adjustment to avoid the static plane the surrounding ground was flat enough to make a pretty good landing.
The comment about a midair between two fuel starved aircraft was humorous.
😂💯
Thanks!!!
Everyone survived. All jokes are within bounds.
Thank you for the laugh 😂
And that one of them was completely stationary "mid-air" too!
I hope they paint a little Cessna silhouette on the T-33 🤷🏻♂️
🙃
LOL
You sir, are a God-damned genius.
Just wondering who gets the credit...😁
🎯
Respect to the T33 pilot who didn't eject.
@@maxmackinlay618 they never saw it coming
I was wondering if anyone on the T33 was injured in the crash.
He's retired.
The aircraft was in the air, so I'm assuming he Paused for a bathroom break
First time in Military history a Cessna has downed a Shooting Star.
Is that also the first time a Cessna has gotten a little tail?
Oh I don't know--the T-33 is still in the air and the Cessna isn't.
The Lockheed must be thinking, ‘Jeez, come on man, I’m a static display!’
👍 👍
💥🫡
I’m just a dumb truck driver. I typically run from St Louis, MO to Boise, ID, then often down to Rifle, CO before heading over Vail back to MO. Of course if I run out of fuel, I’m not going to crash. But running around in the Rockies weather is a huge factor. If I run out of fuel during a storm, I could freeze to death. I have many more opportunities to get fuel than a pilot might, but for either, it has to be a top priority. They’re extremely lucky nobody died. No excuse!!!
I just watched a video yesterday about a group of 20 something year olds (pilots and non-pilots) who got together and bought a Cessna Citation jet. They picked it up somewhere east and had to fly it to Phoenix. The 'kids' really impressed me at their maturity even on buying their new 'toy' but I digress. They had their fuel stops planned and even knew the prices at the places they were going to stop at. I am sure you as a truck driver would have appreciated their concern over planning their stops for fuel as well as concern over fuel costs.
As a student pilot part of my preflight for any cross country trip is fuel planning. It's relatively easy these days with ForeFlight on an iPad. Do your W&B, flight plan/route, and how much reserve fuel you want.
Pilot absolutely should have known he needed a fuel stop along the way. Zero percent chance he wouldn't.
I bet that’s a beautiful drive!
You make the world go round, though! 🎯👌
Totally agree. I'm pretty good at avoiding fuel starvation in my cars, I actually take that quite seriously. How someone could screw that up in an aircraft is beyond comprehension.
What's the saying? The 3 things you can never use. 1) The altitude above you. 2) The runway behind you. And 3) The gas you didn't put in your tank.
He did put the gas in the tank ... just pushed the limit too far!!!
I was thinking a Cessna hot one of OBidens drones .
@@Head-ck4hu I think there's a 4th thing to be added to that list for this pilot...
Their brain...
Wise words
3) the gas you already burned - that's how I learned that
Wow. Same story with the 340 over and over again. I have owed and an idendical 340A since 1988. Fuel burn is an issue. The balance is between max takeoff weight and range. A continued checkup on actual fuel burn and ETA is critical! The unstated contributing issue is that the pilot was using a higher power setting that needed. Slow the aircraft down by 15 knots and he would have made the destination but taken 10 minutes longer.
Does the T-33 get credit for a 'kill?' 😂
Haha!!!
Since all walked away, this PIC is going to be the butt of a lot of jokes.
It does, because it's still (partly) in the air.
Do trainer aircraft have guns???
vis versa
3:10 Not only did he miss it.... 45 minutes earlier, he was flying to and over Tulsa Intl (KTUL) where fuel is avail 24x7 .....and the only winner is the salvage yard!
And a bit before that, Wichita. I assume there’s 24/7 fuel there as well. While it would be cool as F to run out of fuel during the taxi as an OH SHIT story, that should only happen after one has declared an emergency. It doesn’t count if you make it happen by brute negligence.
…and maybe the other winners will be the public (on the ground) , and the reputation of the Responsible pilots, who use their brain and exercise good judgement to just land and ‘get some gas’ !!!
This guy sounds like another wealthy pilot who spent a lot of money. That’s a very nice sophisticated equipment, but can’t back it up with the training in the experience in the devotion to studying what could go wrong and exercising good judgment… I hope the FAA takes his/her ticket and… keeps it
45 minutes? More like 10. And half a dozen other airports in the Tulsa area
@@rocknative70 well, the salvage yard's winnings can be deposited into a bank account and are not metaphorical.
Many good airport choices enroute👍
With three kids on a four hour plane trip, why wouldn't you automatically plan on a stop mid-way? Refuel while everybody goes to the bathroom and stretches.
Yes. The pilot’s carelessness is more than annoying. Risking lives of others, especially children who have no choice but to come along, when a calculator (or even doing it in your head!) would have prevented this.
@@mapleext I fear that he _had_ calculated it, and worked out that he had _just enough,_ if he ignored the 45 minute reserve requirement,
@ I’m not a pilot, but I thought part of the training WAS that you HAD to allow that. You might have to divert from an airport or go around a bit if some issue came up on the ground.
Some 340 have pee tubes if you don't mind going public.
@mapleext Well you do "have" to, but there is absolutely no mechanism for preemptive enforcement of the reserve requirement. The requirement is only "enforced" by training and common sense.
I fly by the bladder. I take off with full fuel, 2-3 hours flight time, and I'm on the ground. Refueling, using the bathroom, and eating if need be.
I've been doing this for 25 years. I think that i might just be onto something....
He took the kids in an excruciating trip: almost 5 hour without a bathroom. This was not a good flight for the poor kids by any stretch of imagination
It's called common sense...something most pilot don't use.
You’d make a bad astronaut, as there you have to wear a diaper
Some pilot not most@@Will-j8q1w
No trucker's 2 liter pop bottle on board?
Juan, sounds like you’re getting a little tired of these knuckleheads who seem to be unable to calculate fuel usage. Great analysis!
Is this the third one in about a month, or the fourth? I'm losing track!
Or even just, y'know, check their fuel gauge occasionally...
@@markhudson2088 seems like it!
@@Muggles87not good enough. Fuel burn needs to be part of the flight plan conducted well before the airplane’s engines are even started. This is mandatory.
I'm more than tired about these idiots raising our insurance costs.
I drove by this crash site this past weekend. I saw the rear of the T-33 on the ground but the crashed aircraft had been removed. I could not understand how the tail of the T-33 could have been ripped off. Little did I know such a crazy aircraft accident was the cause. I'm a commercial instrument pilot plus an ex-Air Traffic Controller so I have seen many aircraft incidents but this has got to be one of the weirdest of them all. I love the quote of a mid-air between two aircraft, both with no fuel on board!
Reminds me of how the Feds. finally caught that very smart New Jersey piliot running huge planeloads of coke out of Columbia, going straight through with extended fuel tanks. The p./u illegal was so stoned on the benefits of transport he parked the p/u truck ON the grass runway and the plane hit it.
Concerning the tail of the T-33 detaching, I believe the tail cone is removable to access the engine, so the connection of the tail cone to the rest of the fuselage may be a weak point. Also, given the use of the aircraft as a display piece, the various sections of the plane may not have been fully bolted up.
@@tu_alum5619so it was sort of an energy absorbing structure in the end, not planned so by its designers, but after a long wait had its day :)
@@PRH123 And the kids get to answer, "What did you do on Christmas break?"
Thank God
I think the FAA should make it mandatory that all static display military aircraft be equipped with ADSB-out.
My home airport has one! I’ll bring that up at the next meeting!😂😂😂🤔
Years ago, early 70s, gliders were grounded because they were not able to prove their engines met the sound level requirements. Kid you not.
It's starting to look like it might be becoming necessary. The number of incidents recently that managed to involve immobile aircraft is a little worrying, a lot of GA flying is VFR so you'd hope other aircraft would be easy to spot for pilots...
What I would like to know is what genius thought putting a pole-mounted display aircraft 3300 feet off the end of a runway AND on the extended centre line was a good idea??? 🤔🤦
That's as dumb as a box of rocks. It was inevitable someone was going to hit it eventually. Still, the pilot is now one of a, I imagine, vanishingly small number of pilots able to record having a mid-air collision with a static aircraft in their logbook 🙄🤦👏
hahaha
or tcas!
He's probably one of the "I've done this before, and it's always worked out fine" crowd.
yep, and probably solo. A family plus luggage was not part of his calculus it seems.
That was my thought also. Probably done it with lighter load or a more favorable wind so didn't pay any attention. He choose poorly.
I would be curious if he did it before. That would be very telling because if he did then he knew it was an over 4 hour flight.
THIS. I ALWAYS make it...(except for that last time i didnt)
Reminds me of that Avto RJ85 (La Mia 2944) that ran out of fuel prior to landing in Medellin, Colombia and wiped out most of a football/soccer team. The commander (chief pilot, aircraft owner and airline exec IIRC) had indeed done it before and got away with it. A minor delay resulted in fuel exhaustion. He again decided against en-route refuelling.
This is the first accident in history that is simultaneously fuel starvation, a crash on landing, and a midair collision all at once.
Pretty sure that T33 thought its days of excitement were over! Thanks for the report Sir!
They don't take their trips on lsd.
They probably are now. That ain't going to buff out, not even with T-Cut.
Looks like what's left of that T-33 is about a T-16.5.
Nah, closer to being a T-24 and three quarter.
But, the T part is what fell off.
@@christopherpardell4418 If the front fell off it would have been a disaster!
@@davidg3944 Thankfully it appears to be one of the ones that are built so the front doesn't fall off at all
@@davidg3944 The original comment was funny enough, you didn't need to improve it
I'm a retired truck driver in Australia I always dipped the fuel tanks on my truck before leaving on an overnight run. Same principles apply but more so in aviation.
Finding the fuel you put in the tanks the previous day isn’t there anymore is occasionally found in both trucks and planes…
This wasn't a pilot not checking his tanks which weren't full, this was a pilot assuming he had enough fuel to make it and ignoring the basic stuff they teach you in flight school, the kind of stuff that takes 30 seconds on a calculator that Juan just did the first two steps of in this very video. This guy needs to be grounded, this was 100% negligence and he put his own family at risk in being such a careless person. A minute of flight planning would have told him that with the fuel burn that aircraft is capable of he doesn't have adequate reserves. Your reserves are non-negotiable, they aren't there because the FAA is a pain in the ass (the FAA are a pain!) they're there because you need extra fuel in case things aren't "as planned"
One can only shake one's head at this one and the other similar fuel starvation accidents. I was first on the scene for the crash of a 152 a block from my house in 1994 where the plane hit 100 ft high treetops and then power lines attempting landing on my street with densely populated housing (the pilot was seriously injured but survived). He was returning from on a long distance flights, but never bothered to check the fuel level before departing on his flight back. In another instance, I was a passenger sitting behind the pilot (who was a friend) in a Cessna 206 returning from a long distance flight and noticed that one fuel gauge was pegged on empty and the other bouncing on empty about 5 minutes before landing... when I pointed this out to the pilot, he said "don't worry, I calculated the fuel burn beforehand and we should have enough fuel to make it" -- needless to say, I never flew with him again. I don't get it -- why do some GA pilots treat fuel with seemly little more seriousness than when driving a car?
cessna fuel gauges are notoriously inaccurate - you have to yaw the aircraft in some cases (C185) to get an idea if its really low
First hand experience and thanks for sharing...I was once at the airport, back comes this "pilot"/farmer...he had been flying in the highlands of Iceland looking for sheep most of the day, with him 3 other oblivious farmers/observers..aircraft c172 hawk xp 50 gal.tanks(about 200liters) He starts pumping with the intent of filling the tanks..comes the time he has pumped 198 liters...he utters"how much fuel can this thing hold anyway " shortly thereafter it was full...how lucky can you get???
We used to run ours at three hours. If our destination was three hours and fifteen minutes away we landed after two hours and filled up. Hopefully this pilot learned something.
On my aircraft, if there’s any tilt to the a/c, for example topping off one wing first, or a sloped ramp, you can short fuel the plane by 10%. It’s full only if the wings are level when you check.
And I’m proud to land on E here in Muskogee
Where runnin’ our tanks dry is such a ball
We land on fumes and coast up to the fuel pump
And dead stick landing’s are the biggest thrill of all
Excellent! I'm rolling!
@NashCreekIndustries
I hope Merle is reading your post!
@@scottwhitcher265 - Ha! Thanks, brother!
Thanks Juan, I think I sold 57C decades ago, to a guy in Nevada or NorCal as I recall but it may have been another similar 340.
You are pretty close on the fuel estimates Juan, but the old 340 wthout the RAM conversions I've had typically burned about 28 to 30 gallons per hour at 60-65% power and 4 hours legs max is what I normally planned for in stock fuel 340's, and about half-way or 2/3 of the way into the flight re-figuring on making a fuel stop or proceeding. To get your 4 hrs + reserve, you need to force feed all the tanks, to the top go high, run at economy cruise and lean hard, and be ready to switch back to mains when the aux tanks run dry to get all the aux fuel. One or two locker tanks is sort of a must on a 340 if you are 500 nautical mile runs.
The pilot had a little bit of dumb luck as he hit the T-33 (P-80 two seater) just where he did. If he'd had been a foot or so closer to the cockpit area, he WOULD have probably cartwheeled. Those era of single engine fighters were designed with a removable tail empenage section, held on with four bolts or nuts and the control cables. You can see the break is pretty much a clean bulkhead. These tails came off to remove/replace OR just get access to the fuselage mounted engine, so it was common. Also fortunate as per normal static display prep, the engine is usually always removed prior to putting on blocks or the pedestals, otherwise he would have hit a very dense piece of metal tailpipe instead of just a monocoque shell. Was fortunate to work the F-105 Thunderchief my first three years in the USAF, and removed a few J-75's.
The trainer taught a valuable lesson, even in retirement
@bendeleted9155
A very expensive lesson; one that could have cost SO much more.
Severely underrated comment. Great observation. 👍
They definitely should be counting their blessings this holiday season. That could have ended up so much worse. Thanks Juan, appreciate all that you do. Cheers!
After I diverted and landed at SPA VRF with only 30 min. of fuel for a C172 (4 gal) back in 1979, I never flew anywhere without 1 hour of reserve fuel.
I am even worse in my Cirrus sr 22 I always left with full tanks and really full.. and stopped at half tanks.. and for sure never below 20 gallons ( two hours) in the mountain west 45 minutes is simply not enough airports can be much father apart than out there in the flat land country.
@@jlh9910 I agree. I have done a lot of driving in the arctic - near arctic and always liked to drive on the top half of the tanks - not the bottom.
@@bj8342 Its the same situation driving in Florida during hurricane season. A mass evacuation can drain the supply at all the local gas stations for a week or more.
"One might have assumed that with its flying days long finished, and minding its own business at the top of a pole, that a peaceful retirement was assured..." Until along came a Cessna 340.....KABLAMMO!
😅😅😅
Heh
I can understand Fuel Selection Confusion. Has happened to the best of us. I cannot understand running out of fuel.
Obviously many American "pilots" can...
Looking at data from flighradar24, over the past year the plane has made four trips that were 30 minutes or longer than this flight, and two more that were about as long as this one. He probably felt confident this flight would be no different. Problem here is that this particular flight is near the max range of the aircraft. It's one of those that goes from "you'll have plenty of reserve" to "you're out of fuel 100 miles out" depending on all the various factors.
Still, there really is no excuse for running out of fuel like this. We live in an age where you not only have every single map you could ever need on an ipad at a low enough price that even hobbyist flight sim types can afford it, but that it will even tell you fuel prices at every single airport along your route. It's easier than ever to make the right decision but this guy said, "Nah, we'll make it."
"He missed it by 45 minutes." Ouch! That will leave a mark😃
I often fly from the Chicago area to northern Florida in a Piper Comanche and I can tell you after 4 hours of non stop flying I begin to make stupid mistakes. Fatigue plays a major role in these accidents. I have learned that stoping and refueling makes a huge difference. Stop rest for 20 minutes and then continue. Also on long flights, you need to lower your stress levels, good VFR weather or an easy instrument approach with plenty of fuel in the tanks makes all the difference
I've been keeping track of my fuel usage since I bought my P baron in 2018 in a spreadsheet. Fuel burn in actual flight (hobbs only works when weight is off the wheels) is 40 Gal/Hour. P Baron has similar engines to the C-340.
Yep, and every pilot should do what you do when they're doing long flights. Every pilot has a smartphone or a computer, every smartphone can run a spreadsheet app like mobile excel. Punching the numbers in while planning the flight takes seconds and can tell you if you're meeting reserves with an elementary school level equation.
Sometimes it’s hard to leave a smooth cruise, especially when up high, to land 100NM short for fuel as it’ll add at least an hour to the trip time. Pilots must always remember that no one will remember that extra hour but everyone will remember the crash!
Juan, Did you see that the LAST surviving world's largest flying boat "The Philippine Mars," a Martin JRM Mars, is trying to make its final flight from British Columbia to be retired at the Pima Air and Space Museum in Tucson? It was an aerial forest firefighting tanker since the 1950s and retired in 2015. There are background videos and updates on the final flight (it has had to turn back twice due to mechanical issues). A video crew is documenting the final flight for Netflix / The History Channel.
had to make an emergency landing this afternoon with one engine out
One engine out of 4
@@TonyWilliams123 A second engine was misfiring also.
It hadn’t been flying in years…
Pima Air and space museum is a great place, recommend you go if you have not been there!
Thanks Juan
Their bucket of luck might be empty now. Wow!
I hope they fix the trainer. Those are a treasure.
Looks like it's all still there, some screws,rivets and paint later....
Always love these stands. Theres an F-102 (or maybe 106) outside the the air national guard base near me.
@Toro_Da_Corsa
I'd guess the T-33 has a lot better chance of being "restored".
Some duct tape and a little bondo will fix that right up!
Bad week for T-33s, on the 2nd a semi hit and knocked a display T-33 off it's base and damaged it in Stoughton MA.
Yet the insurance claim won't look odd...
"Collided with stationary T-bird."
If the C340A has RAM VII like mine, the high power cruise setting should be 42 gallon/hr. Personally, for such a long distance, I would never use high power cruise setting. If I plan for 4 hours of flight, I would use the most economical cruise setting, which is burning 28 gallons/hr. Another important factor here is proper fuel management. When switched to aux (wing) tanks, the fuel returns to the main (tip) tank. If you do not burn enough fuel from the main before switching to aux, excessive return fuel will be vented overboard once the main tank is full..
Interesting comment
If you're running on aux's do you constantly recheck mains' levels to know when or if they fill up again?
@SelventaAir easiest way is to run mains low enough so they can't overfill from engine return once you switch to running off auxiliarys. POH has a procedure as well - same as if you want to get all the fuel out of the aux you'll need to run them dry
Juan, so true about "garbage in/garbage out". And I agree, absolutely so lucky with how they hit that, a little further to the right could have been a completely different story. Cheers!
Really enjoyed your collaboration with Hoover over on Pilot Debrief. Excellent informed analysis. Would like to see you do it again.
I think Muskogee was one of my favorite places I got stuck working survey, both the airport and town were wonderful. Glad everyone made it out ok.
They should write a song about it.
Poor T-33... survived all these years to end up in a midair on a stick.
Something the Oklahoma State Fair has on a stick that the Great Minnesota GetTogether doesn't...a little bit of jeal...
...KMSP pilots, DON'T EVEN THINK OF THINKING ABOUT IT! 😅
Beyond fuel challenge, the question I have is how do you manage 3 kids without a bathroom for more than 4 hours ?
Maybe they were asleep, it was a night flight after all. Could have contributed to the decision not to land for re-fuelling.
well at least the shooting star didn't have the engine in it so that made it not such a hard strike glad everyone made it!
Thats what I was thinking too!
With 10 to 20 minutes of fuel remaining, 49nm from Muskogee, he flew past OWP with a 5,800ft runway, fuel priced 75 cents per gallon cheaper.
And past Tulsa, and Wichita, and Salina......
I'm flying a new Airbus A220-300 from northern New England to South Carolina on Friday. Two professional pilots, two P&W1500G engines. $168 USD round trip. I have not a worry in the world....safer than traveling on an escalator ;-)
As long as the memory of the Gimli Glider exists, I'm always going to have a very slight worry...
...as for the Gimli Glider, if I remember correctly, the crew got both a commendation AND disciplinary action for that unhappy misadventure...
And the T-16.5 is born🥳
Wow. Achievement Unlocked!! Mid Air collision, with a stationary aircraft, with no fuel onboard either of them.
Something tells me he's made the flight by himself before and had plenty of fuel in reserve when he landed and thought he would be fine this trip with his entire family and all their stuff on board.
A major saving for that family was that the T33 did not have an engine installed. If it had, the tail would not have separated as easily, which definitely caused the Cessna to cartwheel - as Juan stated.
That T33 is quite a way from the runway. I’ve seen it from both the air and from the road. The airport committee probably placed it thinking “no way will this cause a problem”.
Lots of small municipal airports in Kansas (and major ones in Wichita) along that flight path, where the pilot could have stopped for a quick gas and go.
Agree 100%. I would like to note however as someone who flies from
Illinois to Colorado and Utah frequently in a 210 you never know what kind f anything your gonna get at some of these KS rural airports. Everything from out of fuel, card reader in-op, credit cards not accepted to have to call Bubba and wait while he rides out on his bicycle and unlocks the pumps to the pumps simply don’t work. I’ve found a couple of reliable fuel stops and don’t risk any others . Beatrice Nebraska is the best municipal airport between Peoria and Leadville Co
Yup. He flew right over Wichita where his airplane was made. Ironic.
@marlinweekley51 Salina, Wichita, and Tulsa were all on route. Not a good excuse for this guy.
@ those are good stops - that’s crazy. In fact Tulsa has two good airports I’ve stopped at.
An even bigger coincidence is two , out of gas aircraft, WITH tip tanks, had a midair , caused by having the tanks empty.
Juan, it would be interesting on this one to interview the pilot to find out what went wrong with his fuel management........not to criticize him, but so everyone can learn what can happen.......
*former* pilot
Oh…It would be interesting to interview ALL the pilots that survived aircraft incidents and accidents to see what they were thinking! But the FAA and NTSB do that but it’s private…
Lifelong Muskogee resident, was wondering when you'd go over this. Thanks. love the channel.
Flew with 65th Troop Carrier [C119G's] out of Muscogee in the early 60's . Lots of good
memories
The T33 thoughts, ...."yeah , i might be now just stuck on this pole , but i can bring down at least one more bogey., to add to my tally.!" 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Give Mr. Blancolirio a thumbs up!
Expected four hour journey. Most of us would have stopped for a ‘bathroom break,’ leg stretching and refueling somewhere along the route.
Especially with 3 kids on board.
My first instructor told me to always have a cup of coffee before going cross-country. That way, I'd HAVE to land to drain my main before the a/c main(s) ran out of fuel.
Agreed, I don’t even drive my SUV for four hours on a trip without having to stop.
Right? I get that landing and fueling isn't quite as simple as pulling off the interstate and topping off at the Pump 'n Munch, but it's just as important to take a break every couple of hours in the air as it is on the highway, especially at night.
I'm extremely athletic and stay hydrated constantly. I think I can handle an hour at a time in the air 😂
6:03 that sigh again
If Juan is giving you that heavy sigh, you've screwed up.
Four hours with no bathroom break and a coupla kids on board. Bravery.
He has 181 usable w/fuel locker. Most 340’s & 340A’s have 203, using 6 tanks, his configuration is 5 tanks.
Depending upon experience of pilot, it’s a complex fuel system where we need to transfer fuel from the locker aux tanks to the tip mains, early on. Because of the passenger load, his was likely at MTOW with 180 on board. He still would have been encroaching on reserves but I’m betting he failed to transfer fuel from aux tank. I spent 17 years piloting my 340A, commonly from Novato, CA to Lake Tahoe and Bozeman, MT primarily. The last 4 our home base is Boulder, CO, flying to same destinations as well as Madison, WI and Houston, TX to visit kids.
The Houston trip would be very similar to this flight. Primarily it would depend upon winds aloft but my burn in Fall would by 17.5-18 gph to KTME, Houston. We upgraded to a KA200GT because the return trip, as well as visiting my daughter in Bainbridge Island was requiring a stop, even with 2 of us and our 2 Samoyed’s.
Will be interesting if that 20 gal aux tank was actually fueled in MT. If so, he should not have exhausted his fuel without pilot error or very unusual weather for this time of year.
I have more than a few hours in a C-340A with the same “5 tank” configuration. I was so paranoid of my fuel state because it’s somewhat deceiving that all the fuel is available as needed. The 20g Wing locker tank can only be transferred to the Left side Main….which HAS to have burned down at least 20g from the 50g usable. For this,The electric transfer pump is only authorized to be used in level flight. There is no fuel gauge for the wing locker tank, only an associated operating light ( with the small toggle switch) But after emptying Locker tank to Left Main Wing Tank, now you have 20 extra gallons (times distance of 15 feet) rolling Moment, so you must Re-trim the aileron. Additionally, the 64 gallons Aux fuel (32 per side) cannot be transferred, only direct to associated engine or cross-feed. The 32 g Aux tanks can easily be ran into fuel exhaustion…..and really that is the only way to use all the available fuel. I loved flying the 340A, but i never let my guard down with fuel burn. I had 40 plus years of Lockheeds, McDonald-Douglas, Airbus and Boeings…..Cessna 340 kept me on my toes whole time.
Man, I love sitting under the wing
I think we might be missing the big question here though...
Which member of the Army Air Corps recruiting office staff is going to be getting the ladder out to go and paint the silhouette of a Cessna 340 with a line through it below the cockpit of the T-33?
You know it won't be an officer 😂
I fly a Cherokee Six with four fuel tanks. The stock fuel flow gauge is off by more than two gallons per hour. I installed and calibrated a JPI FS-450 fuel totalizer and came up with a procedure to keep track of where all of the remaining fuel is located. It ties into the GPS navigator and gives (among other things) an estimate of fuel remaining at the destination. After calibration, its fuel burn error is less than 2%. Even though it is a bit expensive, it can save an airplane.
Pilot at least had the foresight to run the plane out of fuel before crash landing. Easy way to avoid a post-crash fire.
good point
Ty aviation Hank Hill! Your videos have convinced me to get flight sim and mess around.
I fly a 340A (Ram VII) and I plan for 42 GPH, although my actual consumption at 19,000 is more like 18-19 GPH a side. This gives me 205-212 TAS at that altitude. But the climb is more like 26-31 GPH a side at 1000 ft per min ROC. He must have been near or a bit over gross for that load with another adult plus the kids, plus some luggage even with full fuel...... The climb should have used about 18 -22 gallons. Then 4 hours at 36 GPH minimum per hour. I come up with the same figures you do....And I have an engine analyzer and cruise LOP.
Even with the descent he must have run out of fuel about 15 minutes before reaching the crash site.
I never go more than 3 hours without stopping.
I'm glad you're more professional with fuel planning flying to Australia 🦘
Imagine dead sticking your twin at night and you’re about to hit the ground and all of a sudden another airplane appears out of nowhere. Wham bam Uncle Sam!
I used to love the T-33. First time using a true "wizz-wheel." Ignoble end to nice plane.
@randylaw3368
Maybe not the end. A few scraps of aluminum as doublers, a hundred odd rivets (pop or regular), some fiberglass filler...
7:40 Pencil, paper and flight manual fuel burn numbers can also be fallible. Sometimes, an aircraft doesn't get the fuel burn numbers advertised in the flight manual. Ask me how I know.
That trainer had one more lesson left to teach, apparently. Thanks for the video.
No justifications for the alleged fuel starvation.
Absolutely no justification to ever let him fly again! This is a 100% inexcusable offense! Literally ruined his passengers trust and their families trust in GA pilots! I’d never get into a GA aircraft unless I’m the PIC! Don’t care how much “experience” someone professes to have !
I think you mean exhaustion. Fuel starvation indicates a condition where there is fuel available but it is unable to get to the engine, ie failed fuel pump, clogged filter, etc.
On the positive side…..no post crash fire 🤪
@ 💯 correct! No fuel. No fire. No problem! 🤪
@ That is correct. My friend died in a twin engine due to fuel starvation as there was fuel in the tanks but not enough for the maneuver he was doing in a check ride which stalled both engines and at the low altitude there was not enough time to save the plane as it slammed into the ground killing both.
I think Juan is suffering from fool exhaustion.
Don't blame him either. Not that keep count, but I reckon easily 50% of the videos he's published this year, the accident in the video could have been prevented by people just being a bit more careful.
I would be willing to be he has done the flight before and this day the winds caught him out
Don Ho the singer attributed his success to running out of fuel in an air guard t33/f80. After that he became very disciplined with plan b's always in mind for life in the music business etc.
Its so real to see you using the calculator like this. Im yet to recover from the trauma of EASA exams that i would use it to add 1+1 when I was doing them🤣. Keep up with the great videos.
It may be this incident will mark the end to the pilot's flying career. He may not have the resources to restore the plane or to purchase another one. His insurance company will fight him then likely drop him. The FAA could easily force a reexamination process.
Glad there is no tombstones involved. Shame about the T-33.
That T-33 should be "fully repairable to be returned to ( static display) service.
Maybe it is just me; but I will never understand running out of gas
Never could figure out fuel starvation. Years ago my brother in law and sister in law (both pilots) were flying from BWF to CIC to visit us. They ended up at a golf course in Roseburg Oregon… fuel starvation.
I bet this pilot have done the exact same flight with this particular airplane - since it was visiting family - but with less people/weight and/or less headwind and made it without refueling before and maybe even with plenty of fuel left on the tanks. So this time, he just topped it all up without doing the fuel calculation with actual weight/wind for this particular flight.
Now they have a second static display.
We just had a T33 on a stand at stoughton wi VFW get hit by a semi 2 weeks ago and it needs an outer section of wing with tip. Maybe arrangements could be made ?
So is this considered a midair collision? 🤔
@@aross924 You’re right! They were both off the ground at the time of impact.
In marine terms it'd be an allision since only one party was moving, but that might be too technical for aviation :)
A stationary, unmanned, out of fuel, airborne T33 collided with a Cessna... lol
Sounds like you have been watching sals channel? What going on with shipping?@MayaPosch
@@lightningdemolition1964 You bet :)
I saw the T33 had been damaged, but was told it was done by a passing lorry - this is sillier!
That was another T-33..
@@txkflier Two T33 guardians bumped off in so short time, isn't that some sort of a record!
I flew a modified 206 over the Congo jungle for a year before we retired it, and I moved to 208B with G1000. We had a very accurate EDM that included fuel flow and %hp and had CHT for each cylinder and I always cruised at lean of peak. The instrument would tell me minutes of fuel remaining, but I always dipped my tanks before departure and calculated total fuel remaining at a burn rate closer to rich of peak numbers. I preferred to use the flight timer on my transponder to calculate fuel remaining even though my EDM had that capability. I also referenced the quantity gages to keep alert for leaks or abnormal burn.
Numbers are hard.
They're harder if you're stupid.
Numbers aren't as hard as a steel pole.
The T-33 tail is detachable as a unit for engine servicing / replacement
That probably helped to get it detached rather than cartwheeling the Cessna ...
I wonder how much target fixation played part of this unlikely low-altitude collision?
I've been there. You tend to travel in the direction of what you are looking at, even if your intention is to squeak by. *_Kablamo!_*
Well, he was gliding in with terrified passengers, and in the dark. I guess he was just trying to avoid trees and buildings.
From Montana to Oklahoma in 4 hours in a twin engine non-stop seems pretty impressive. Sounds like the plane was purchased specifically to make this trip without stopping. And that becomes a "mindset" problem. "I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on this plane to make it non-stop, therefore I'M NOT STOPPING!" I'm betting that they've made this flight successfully a few times, which made them overconfident. I guess the lesson is, with the varying times spent on the taxiway, rerouting by ATC, as well as different tail wind and head wind scenarios during every single flight, just because you've successfully made the trip once or twice without having the proper reserve fuel amount, doesn't mean that you'll be successful every time. And the consequences for running out of fuel in an airplane are much higher than the consequences for running out of fuel in your car.
Came in for a landing with two engines and two tails, plus one wing and a prayer.
Great coverage Juan
You have to be a special kind of YoYo to put yourself and your passengers in harms way like this. You are responsible for their safety. If there's a doubt, divert and fuel up.
The pilot had to have looked at his instrument panel, no ones that dumb. No, he saw and decided to push it. Another example of "F around and find out".
I score the T-33 with the kill
Great report Juan. For want of adequate fuel management a routine landing was not obtainable. Could have been much worse.
What are the chances of a fuel-starved aircraft crashing into that T33 on a stick?
One *hundred* percent. Because it happened.
It's like Lou Gehrig coming down with Lou Gehrig's disease, what are the odds?
You can't make this stuff up.
As someone who has ferried old C-182's (circa 1956 straight tails with 470 , 520 & 550 engines), (NY FL), I have always remembered my CFI's words: "Your time aloft, is just that... TIME - (NOT distance!)."
FWIW, if the ETE, on your GPS gizmo, is even close to, never mind GREATER than, the TIME in your tanks, then, my friend you need to review your ADM.
Seems to me if the pilot had made just a slight course adjustment to avoid the static plane the surrounding ground was flat enough to make a pretty good landing.
As I got older, my kidneys gave out before I could run the tanks dry on the Baron. No excuse for this kind of fuel starvation incident/accident.
and 3 little sets of kidneys in the kids - must have had a bucket
Great Explanation and oratory... Thanks