@@michaelbryant7377 And how did you come to that conclusion? They can only do so much with the funding allocated. Plus the NTSB's role is primarily advisory.
My neighbor in his 50s got his ppl a few years ago. Got his instrument rating right after. Then started talking about buying a high performance aircraft to fly his wife around to visit the kids. He bought a airplane similar to the 206 but with retractable gear. He used the same instructor all through including the HP checkout. He was proud of his airplane and asked me to go for a flight with him. ( im a high time airline/GA pilot with alot of time in his type of aircraft) I saw a lot of concerning things and one was a failure to operate the aircraft at the POH recommended speeds. He made a landing similar to the video crow hopping along. He flew at least 20kts over the POH speeds. When I asked him why he told me his instructor told him to fly faster because it was safer. After we got back to the hangar I took the POH out and showed him the speeds he should be flying and that maybe he should consider a different flight instructor. Now after a gear up incident the plane is repaired and he still using the same instructor.. how do you tell someone they are an accident waiting to happen?
Not a pilot, so tell me why people go there? The artistry of the landing?Sasquach viewing? Great restaurant? Seems like that is an air strip designed for bush pilots in STOL planes. I won’t call this guy stupid, but could be more money than brains. Edit. I took a lesson once in a 150hp Tripacer. Could that plane even land at this place? And why didn’t I continue with lessons? $25/hour and my pay was $20/day.
@@GuitarRyder11 nearby gas station has some t-shirts with humorous things on them for sale. One says: if at first you don't succeed, maybe skydiving isn't for you
I am from salmon Idaho I fly backcountry quite often. My instructor made me promise to not fly after 10 am. He put the fear of God in me. I have stuck to my promise and so far it’s kept me alive. Backcountry flying is awesome but very little room for error. Bless all pilots to learn from this video and your other videos. Thanks Juan Bless the families that have lost loved ones. It’s not easy to lose a loved one to aviation.
@behindthen0thing525 The air is cooler in the morning therefore DA is lower. Also any mountain valley is going to have a slight pressure differential gradient between opposing ends, which creates increasing wind and turbulence. The exception is if one is in the center of a high pressure dome.
Dan city altitude is a killer if you don’t plan for it. Most of these airstrips and Idaho are already at a high altitude. Combine that with winds that are generally higher and more turbulent in the afternoons. 10 AM is a general rule, but one that I tried to live by.I applied the backcountry only in the mornings personally.
The guy just wasn't competent to land there, but didn't know enough to recognize it or wasn't willing to admit it. A sad example of the Dunning-Kruger principle in action.
I agree, but I will go even further. Sadly the guy wasn't competent to fly that aircraft, regardless of where. He didn't do a proper landing checklist. He didn't do final checks (besides the landing check list he didn't do final checks, like G[U]MPS or B[U]PFF - The [U]ndercarriage doesn't apply to the C206). The fact that he was unable to full-forward the prop on go around meant that he didn't have the instinct to add power starting with the levers from the right to the left (first mixture, then prop, then throttle), which had he done the checklist, wouldn't be needed. Besides that, he didn't listen to the aircraft and didn't relate the lack of noise to a coarse pitch, which meant he wasn't instinctively familiarized with the aircraft, which comes mostly with experience and could have been an additional safety net in spite of his very poor discipline (I still fly with my David Clark H10-13.4 headsets, so I am completely ignorant if ANR headsets could be an additional factor here). It also likely meant that the workload of the go around exceeded his capability. But, the worst of all was that he was always behind the aircraft.
Definitely a great case I will be sharing with my students. Just from the energy management perspective, there is a lot to be studied here. Keep up the great work
This is a great example of someone who got a pilot license to kill himself and an innocent passenger. This video really does show why no instructor ever should pass a student who cannot perform a soft field landing 100% proficiency at least 10 times in the course of his or hers flight lessons. This guy was not in the least bit in control of this aircraft. Way too much plane for him… now he’s dead because someone in his aviation circle of friends did not tell him that.
@@Thegr8iam-p7tor perhaps they did but he was NOT "listening " ego ? As a mater of interest what Flap setting was appropriate in this situation with this Aircraft please ? I am not a qualified Pilot however when I can I do fly with an experienced pilot Cessna 152, 180 and an old Wingeal Trainer only the money stops me ! To me the Aircraft was too low and too slow to go around ? I would have either held the nose weal up a little (balance) and if required start the go around much earlier? Thanks mate. 🦅🇺🇸🦘🇦🇺
RE: Narrator comment: "...at this point he needs to bite the bullet and stay on the ground.." I fully agree. Sometimes the ingrained training about going around from a PIO can be applied out of context. Going off the far end at a survivable speed is the better of two evils compared to the go-around stall/spin likelihood. Sadly, this all provides a classic training moment ("How NOT to do this...") for everyone except that pilot who needs it most. RIP.
Yup. There’s no way I’d fly into these mountain strips, without good training, and several good escorted trips first. It’s just not worth it. A lot of these air strips are do or die on takeoffs, and landings.
I mean theres a great song "you can always go around" and it doesnt really give any limitations of going around. Thats a catch phrase for beginner pilots at 5000+ foot training runways to know.
So true. When I did my backcountry training in here in Idaho my instructor drilled into my head a verbal call out at the final decision “go/no-go” point. After that point you WILL land. If a herd of elk walk onto the runway - you WILL still land, because a go around at that point will not be successful.
After your last video on this accident i fired up my fs2020 sim and shot some approaches in a full loaded 172. I am not a qualified pilot, but have about 25 hours in gliders from uni. In any case my 3 hours of messing around taught me a great deal. Initially i found landing there a breeze, as i sat comfortably in my chair with no stress or worries about messing it up. Then i deliberately attempted a go around from the same place as this guy. At the time you add power it looks golden, like you have all the time and space in the world, but i discovered very fast that those trees are taller and closer than you think once you factor in the altitude and reduced performance of the aircraft. Your point about mushing when pulling the flaps in is also spot on, as my virtual cessna almost found out during my experiments. I then remembered i had not added the tail wind he had on the day of the accident. This made landing almost impossible and the only way i got in was flying much further down the valley. I could really see how pilots can be sucked into a situation with few or no ways out. while i didnt have any crashes, i was sat stress free (ish, i was getting tired after 3 hours) in my computer chair with a respawn button to bail me out. Under real conditions it would be so easy to make a mess of it.
What is so surprising to me is even for a non-pilot like myself who’s “flown” virtually on a simulator for over 20 years that even I and I’m sure many other sim pilots who come to watch Juan’s videos can see the foolish mistakes that were made in this case. Flying virtually and doing it seriously is all about procedures and checklists and “doing things by the book” and to see here what appears to be a total lack of procedure following and plain bad airmanship is totally baffling to me. I think flying is more about having half a brain and not having a god complex. Do things right, follow the procedures, double check yourself and if it doesn’t look right or feel right go around and try again. These accidents just keep on coming and they all seem to have common themes: I know better and get-there-itis.
@@carosel43 You are bright person. . If you have the "nerves of steel" to NOT PANiC, and quickly process what could be going wrong in a real world "flight upset", instead of freezing up, you'd probably make a good pilot. The reason there is now such a shortage, is because the really good pilots are all retiring out. You have the intelligence and SA " situational awarenes" to become a really good pilot. Might want to think about persuing that. It pays well after 10 years experience. And others here may be able to tell you where you can get your flight training for free. Help this one out if you know. Appears to have a fore thinking brain.
@@carosel43 Also if you want to become a real pilot, start watching the series "Mayday". You will learn so much about deadly pilot mistakes, and also the very best pilots, that saved the bacon, in which a lesser skilled pilot would have crashed and burned. Piloting is a real skill, where you have fly in a tight envelope of circumstances. Not like driving a car at all.
You aren't taking into account the constant speed prop. Re-try this in the sim with an aircraft that has a blue lever. When starting the go around, don't push that blue lever forward and you will see how bad a condition this pilot was in.
@@jvtaylor3 Yea i didnt know the 208 had a cs prop and as i dont have a 208 in the sim i cant try it. I just used the 172 as it was available and remember this was only done out of curiosity, not a scientific study. You are right though, having a cs prop set incorrectly will cripple the performance.
Great Video. Went back and rewatched the first video where the incident was verbally described by a witness of the fatal crash in August. Amazing how his description of the fatal mishap almost beat for beat matched the video footage of this barely completed go around.
Thank you Juan! I cannot express the value that your videos and explanation add to general aviation! I am a low-hours SEL retired pilot who has a F-35 Pilot as a neighbor. We both appreciate your work! You are LEGEND at Luke AFB Juan! Be well and THANK YOU, Sir!❤❤
I found ‘Blancolirio’ in 2018 when I was searching YT for the Miami University pedestrian Bridge Catastrophe which killed/injured some drivers passing underneath. Ironically an 18 year old student at the school was crushed while riding in a car. I’ve never looked back!
@@joshiasbaja3934 I drove under that bridge the night before it collapsed. I was on my way home from work. Was very happy to see that bridge finally completed since at least one FIU student had been killed crossing the extremely busy "Calle Ocho" (Eight Street)/Tamiami Trail road US 41. It collapsed less than 24 hours later. RIP
Interesting to note that the cowl flaps are open. Checklists call for them to be closed for landing. Perhaps it is another indication of a lack of checklist usage.
I'm not experienced with cowl flap operations. Is manipulating the cowl flaps part of the procedure for a GO-AROUND? If yes, at what point in go around does a pilot worry about the cowl flaps? I'm guessing that cowl flaps are open for a normal take-off.
@@chetmyers7041 Big high performance engines are really picky with temperature, and can grenade themselves if there are large changes in temperature in a short period of time due to their size/volume. Cowl flaps closed on landing preserves heat in the engine so that you don't crack the block in case of a go around, as that is pretty much the worst time for your engine to go out, as I'm sure you're aware. On a normal takeoff without any power changes (staying at full) they are open to prevent the engine from overheating as its working hard with little ram airflow due to the low speeds. In a go around, opening the CF isn't the highest on the priority list (in my opinion, always follow A/C checklists/memory items however) until you're stabilized in the climb as full power, airspeed, and flap retraction are your big priorities.
Needless? Maybe. But unavoidable when people have free will. If I did something like show in the video, I would seriously think what went wrong and try to get better. The pilot did the exact same thing twice meaning to him this landing was just “how the plane flies”. Or something.
As a McCall resident of fifty years and flying the back country for all that time this kind of piloting has me spooked about even flying into all of my treasured spots in the Idaho Central Mountains. Pilots with little or no training and a large ego (and pocketbook) are invading this area and risking their lives as well as endangering other pilots. In addition to all of the actual flying skills there are numerous other skills that most of these folks lack. Proper radio comms, tight canyon traffic procedures, mountain wave experience, steep stabilized approach skills and many others. Just watching a You-Tube of someone flying his Kitfox in the backcountry ain't gonna save your life.... A footnote - there have been 2 fatal mid-air collisions at Johnson Creek in recent years.
You hit the nail on the head, and very well said. With the "boom" in STOL flying the last 10 years or so, there have been a excess of people thinking "I can do that too" that don't have the training or wherewithal to handle back country, bush type flying. That is just a fact!! Get the proper training guys!! Some are just NOT meant to do this!!
McCall is a great town. I have rafted with Hughes many times. Very sad the Lodge was remodeled and all the history in the bar had gone.....of course the remodel happened 25 years ago!
Excellent comment. I see so many pilots doing touch and goes, or they fly in, stand around, talk and take off again to go get breakfast. Those types are going to anger the Forest Service and-or environmentalists and we are going to lose our treasured back country air strips.
Im not Mr Browne obviously, but yes, it is. And to see mishaps like Jenny Blalock(?) and others, where they clearly had no business flying an airplane in the first place... But even well trained, well experienced aviators still can make fatal mistakes, obviously. Which is why we must never allow ourselves to become complacent or allow normalization of deviance, which unfortunately takes so many lives. Also Spatial D. I personally wouldnt be opposed to making an Instrument rating just a capstone part of getting a PPL. Included in a PPL. Or at least more "Recognize, Confirm, Recover" and "Inadvertent flight into IMC" training. If not the whole Instrument rating requirements, at least some more of it should be included in a basic PPL, IMHO.
@@MattH-wg7ou I think this is like Jenny has nothing to do with mountain flying this guy doesn't know how to properly land a plane. Could be other videos of him bouncing down runways possibly security cameras.
"Frustrating" to pilots equates to terror in non aviators. Is there any accountability within this industry? Juan used the term Porpoising but it looked more like a bucking bronc rider to me and I am really concerned about the licensing requirements.
@@Mike-01234I think it’s more accurate to say he didn’t know how to land a plane in these conditions. A steeper glide slope, a tail wind, and a completely different go-around procedure. Places like this call for you knowing ahead of time that you’re off, and initiating the go around early, with a checklist to get the airspeed and climb rate back up fairly quick. If you go below that point, you have to freaking commit to sticking the landing, one way or another. It’s much easier to do a go around for an attempted landing, when you’re on a long, paved air strip, with nothing to worry about clearing (where the majority of people get flight instruction). Mountainous air strips are a completely different animal.
Curious if any of the veteran Johnson Creek pilots had a dutch uncle talk with the pilot. That prop in cruise setting sounded like half throttle. Normally a turbo C206 has quite a snarl to it. The fact that he eventually made it in once made him feel qualified to do it again. Juan, are you going to look at the Swift/C206 mid-air in Minden,NV ?
I'm Dutch and I never knew the expression 'Dutch Uncle' so I looked it up, learned again. Must say I can also be pretty blunt if I want someone to realise something or learn something. Think that will be a thing of the past since because these days it's easily mistaken by some as an unsafe work environment
My initial reaction was "yikes - he's SO fast!". And then sheer disbelief as I hear NO change in the prop on the go-around. Like watching a glider or something - just "oops" and float on by, almost silently.
Years ago I had a friend who was a high-time USAF C-130 pilot, who happened to own a C-206. We were flying at night back to his home airport (Potomac Airfield, KVKX). I was a relatively new Private Pilot in the right seat. My friend, LTC Don Bxxxxx , really impressed me with his precision flying abilities that night. He was laser focused and flew the approach in a short field landing configuration, making precise corrections to airspeed and glide path all the way down to his aim point (touchdown) with a level of precision I have rarely seen since! He possessed extraordinary flying skills and was a master aviator of the highest caliber!
when half loaded these planes have so much power, they are so easy to land precisely, the big mistake is going too fast, they are 10 to15kts slower then most low wings
I was at Jonson Creek the prior year, I am pretty positive the same plane landed the exact same way when I was there. Came in high and fast, floated down the runway, bounced several times, and had to veer to the left to avoid the trees on go-around. He came back later, 30 minutes, and made a ungrateful but successful landing. When he exited the airplane, his whole family was with him. Exact same color scheme and belly pod. A really nice plane.
High-time instrument-rated Private Pilot here, with about 400 hrs in the 206. I am in no way bad mouthing a dead pilot. There but for the grace of God, go I . . .but it appears from this and the crash video that the mishap pilot may have never received a proper checkout, let alone a Mountain checkout in the 206. The 206 is a good honest airplane, a bit heavy on the controls, but you gotta know your ship!
Checkouts occur only for some rentals and when your company assigns you a different airplane or they need to see how you fly during a hiring and assignment process. Private owners operating part 91 don't have to jump through any hoops to use public airports. But you are right as regards the lack of proficiency in mountain flying, which all pilots should know (and their instructors had better teach them as per the ACS!) is a technical mission requiring additional ground and flight training, including accident studies exactly like Mr, Brown presents so often.
Wow catching that same plane on video months before the accident is insane i feel like if you didnt learn from that event you probably never were going to learn
Thank you for sharing this. I was one of the firefighters that responded to the fatal accident in August this year. An unfortunate scene that I'll have in the back of my mind forever. Tragic loss. RIP to the pilot and passenger. Condolences those having to bear the loss.
You'd be surprised what your brain discards over the years. I was reading over some of my old notes from the early days of my paramedic career about 25 years ago and there was one about my responding to a call for a dude who was fully engulfed in flames in the front yard of someone's house for some unknown reason (called in by a bus driver early on a Sunday morning), but at this point I have absolutely no recollection of that incident!
@@joshyaks IMO, it depends, I do a lot of road cycling, one time witnessed an accident where a baby died, and the mom was screaming from the top of her lungs, please wake up, please you are not dead, holding her in her arms... I don't know about you, there is no way I can forget that. I almost turned around to help in a way I could, even if it was from emotional support, but I just could not, I cried all the way back home and gave my kids a big hug. I do a lot of praying, meditation and 100% stay away from buzz. To the firefighter, I have you in my prayers my friend.
@joshyaks I've been to a number of fatal car wrecks, homicides, and suicides. I wasn't a first responder but a tow truck driver so my experiences are not comparable to EMS/fire fighters though I have watched a few people die in front of me. I used to remember each one and knew how many I cleaned up but eventually it got to the point I lost count. I think its 15-20. I think our minds forget things on purpose. I only had one that bothered me. A man was ran over and dragged deliberately for miles. I was fortunate none of the incidents involved kids.
Sounds like you're advocating putting someone who has never flown a plane in the pilot's seat and gambling they'll land the plane without incident. And then pick themselves up if they crash they should jump in another plane and keep crashing until they get it right. ...which would be a violation of federal law.
@@erickborling1302That's not what that quote is saying at all. It means: sometimes people get an opportunity to see the truth, but they decide to ignore it anyway. The quote doesn't advocate for this, it's just an observation of behavior.
Captain Bill Hartmann was my flight instructor at San Carlos airport. After spending 10 hours mountain flying with "Capt.Bill" my wife and I flew a southwest trip in our Cessna 152 without any problems. Always flew early morning sometimes at sunrise to take advantage if cooler sir, used soaring techniques to climb. The greatest vacation of our life. Grand Canyon, Sedona, Taos, Arches, monument valley. Everyone I knew said the 152 was not powerful enough. I trusted "Captain Bill" the greatest CFI in the world. He said if you follow the rules you'll be fine.
On a positive note, yes, there is one, these two videos along with your presentations and explanations would be excellent examples in the mountain training of which you spoke. I'll bet watching this will burn the proper procedure into student brains permanently. Thank you once again Juan for helping all pilots learn from others' mistakes.
So I'm thinking the fact that the power of the 206 having saved his arse the first time perhaps made him think it could overcome his stupidity again. After that first try he had no business flying in there. Full stop.
Absolute class per the usual, Juan. Good job threading the needle of conveying the unacceptable behaviors for those who might need to hear it and maintaining respect for the deceased.
So sad, arrogance, bull headedness, who knows. one of the first things my instructor drilled into me when i was getting my high performance endorsement was prop full forward on final in the event of a go around, oh ya, its on the checklist too. Excellent video as normal, thanks Juan
@@TyphoonVstrom Agreed. Flew in Minnesota where it’s flat, in this case, I agree, downwind would get that out of the way and help you to slow down, nose wheel first is never a good thing.
Seriously? Juan, you're a professional pilot, as am I. I have flown the Cessna 206 (amongst others). When I see that video from June? I am appalled, Speechless.. As pilots,? We make decisions constantly. NEVER put your life, or anyone else, in danger!
172, VFR guy here.. wouldn’t his propeller have been full forward for landing config already? Or was the witness/filmer indicating it was out of position on approach? Checklist item if he ran it on the way down…
I don't know. Everyone gets preachy about safety in aviation TH-cam comments then breaks the speed limit driving to the airport with brake pads and rotors long overdue on a frame that's rusted out.
I've flown the C206, and it is a lot of airplane. Watching this video tells me it was too much airplane for him, and he was just an accident waiting to happen. There's always a pattern with these guys. My roommate in CA was a professional pilot, and he had a habit of running out of fuel, with two forced landings under his belt from fuel exhaustion. Unfortunately, later on, he was flying a corporate twin Commander on an ILS in the weather, and he ran out of fuel on the approach, and took out him, and three company executives who were passengers.
Thank you for spending the time and effort in creating the video of the T206H. After hearing about the accident, and knowing that the pilot was dedicated to making LIGA flights in Mexico and having visited our resort, I couldn't help but wonder what happened at Johnson Creek. My last airplane (3,500 hours) was the same make and model (belly pod too), thus could truly put myself behind the yoke in that video.
That was a dreadful example of piloting skills, mountain flying or not. Totally out of his element at the controls of an aircraft. The 206 is such a sweet and capable aircraft. I worked in Alaska serving the interior Indian villages years ago, the 206 is a load hauler.
After living in Alaska for nearly 50 years i can agree with you 100 percent. With the flight path to Merrill field in Anchorage right over my house we hope to avoid one of those "cleaning" events.
"Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect." - Captain Alfred G. Lamplugh c/o my CFI
I get the intent, and I've heard the quote numerous times before, but I'd say aviation IS inherently dangerous, not least because it IS so 'terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect'.
I was lucky enough to see the Flying Wallendas a couple of times in the early 70s when the Shrine Circus came to New Orleans. It was crazy. Salute to those folks.
As well as the apparent lack of Back Country training / experience, the thing that stuck in my mind was that with a constant speed prop, part of your Before Landing Checklist, (In everything I've flown with a CS Prop, and in the dozens of manuals I've read for airplanes with Constant Speed Props, is that after you turn to final, you ensure that the Mixture is Rich, and the Prop is in Full Increase. If nothing else, is saves the number of things you have to do if you do need to go around.
There’s a book I read a long time ago called Mountain Flying. I recall advice like circle until your 1000 feet higher than the ridge you plan to cross in case of powerful rotors and downdrafts. Approach that ridge at a 45 degree angle in case you can’t clear it and must turn back. Easier than an Immelmann.
You are not going to believe who this pilot was. Name is Charlie Brown and he has an unbelievable history of flying. I was with him in June at Big Creek. Probably 15000 hour + pilot. Air tankers, Doctors with out boarders, historic bombers, and 100s of hours in the back country. Great guy. I have a video of his departure from Big Creek.
@@k.tracyreynolds9246 I knew Charlie. Age (75) and over confidence ( he had flown in there dozens of times) caught up to him. He had a tremendous amount of experience!
I took my C172 into Johnson Creek a couple of months ago. It is a real challenge. I decided that for my airplane, I am committed at about 300-400 feet -- my performance is more limited than, say C182 or C206. I had a bit of tail wind, and I had to slip it all the way into the flair, almost to touchdown. If you come out of the slip before you are in a flair you will immediately pick up energy and will float. This can be seen in the video -- if he held the slip for an additional 5 seconds he would have bled off the excess energy.
When I was a newly minted Pvt pilot I did a T&G at Everglades City in Collier county FL. The flaps in the C172 failed to retract after I shoved in the throttle. The Australian pines at the end of the runway were coming up fast. I was mentally paralyzed! Had I been solo I would have hit the trees. Fortunately I had an A&P in the right seat and he recycled the flap switch. Flaps retracted. Well, we sunk about 50' but the density altitude was low and the Cessna was able to clear the trees. Great lesson learned cheap.
I fly a PA 32R300 Lance and this is the exact reason why I like the dead stupid simple flap handle there's no way to ever have it do that. I always loved Pipers for that
@@davidkadish2048 In Pipers there is no indication on the panel or glareshield that the flaps are extended. At night in a dark cockpit or with a distraction you can go around or take off with full flaps extended, a poor human factors design, in my opinion. I discovered a 200HPArrow can takeoff and climb well like this at 60 with just the pilot and half fuel. I think I was a test pilot for about 4 minutes. We had a Lance 32R300 in our club but it was mostly used for day trips.
Did the Blancolirio Global Headquarters move? It looks like your office is the same as when you bunk up at your brother's house during snow storms in years past?
Not only need to be competent in mountain flying but in flying in general. The props being back and not recognizing and correcting why the plane wasn't performing.
We had a court case here in Australia recently where someone who escaped a guilty verdict in a criminal matter then launched civil defamation proceedings (different burden of proof). He lost and in the judgement the Magistrate noted that after having that good fortune "you came back for your hat". This bloke came back for his hat.
As an aside, I would not want to live in that white house that can be seen just past the end of the runway. Not sure why anyone would decide to put a house in that particular location.
@@demef758 I believe so, as in the previous video, it was mentioned that the owners of that house, donated the ground on which the airfield is, for that purposes, on condition that they use that particular runway, and NOT the one coming in over their house, unless absolutely necessary. (If I remember the last video corectly)
I am well retired, ex floatplane, Mountain flyer in BC Canada. These two videos you have commented on shook me to the core of all the ones you have done. I have made my mistakes and learned from them. This was the opposite, it looks like it empowered the pilot to make a repeat. Good reporting.......
When you don't learn from history you are doomed to repeat it. He survived in June and that was all he needed to do it all over again. Surviving a screwup once doesn't make you proficient. Thanks for the insight, Juan.
#1/ Wow. Is this hubris or knowledge/experience issues? #2/ What a great network of professionals, to be able to capture this footage, and now we can see this, showcasing an opportunity for teaching...several things. #3/ Thanks Juan. ✌🏽🇺🇸
I flew the 206 for about 5 years. Doing a full flap landing when light the flaps tended to block the horizontal stabilizer which could cause porpoising.
That's is the definition of being neurotic, not insanity. Mental health is the ongoing dedication to the truth at all costs. That's how you keep from going insane. Basically anyway.
I was taught early on that once you get comfortable with bad habits they become extremely difficult to break, so it's best not to start them in the first place. In aviation, not having the skill mixed with bad habits is a recipe for disaster.
Good Day. Thank You Juan and the others involved in presenting this additional video and your description of what happened, and, what should have been done. Reminds me of an old saying, something about "fixing stupid". Very sad ultimate ending. Best Regards.
The time of day and temp difference between the june and agust and pilot not learning, analyzing what went wrong. Pilot may not even realize his error. Hence does it again in agust.
Sadly the pilot was unfamiliar with backcountry and mountain flying and all that goes with that. If you want to fly in these environments, proper training and experience is required. Great reporting Juan. RIP to the pilot and passenger.
Incredible that someone recorded this same plane with apparently the same pilot demonstrating poor mountain landing technique a few months before their fatal accident. I'm so sorry to the friends and families affected by this, but hopefully this example can help other pilots avoid the same mistakes :(. Though they are capable aircraft, a presumably-loaded 206 is not the aircraft to be learning mountain flying and landing in and failing to adjust the prop for a go-around at this altitude and these wind conditions dramatically reduces your chances of escape. The swiss cheese holes here are many as we have a (presumably) loaded aircraft, afternoon wind conditions, an unstabilized approach, an apparent tendency to force high-speed landings (to "stick it"), and a failure to restore maximum climb performance during go-around. There are probably others. In-flight prop management is definitely taught to pilots during type rating as it's so critical to safety; it's the main reason why Light Sport aircraft are not allowed to have flight-adjustable props. Repeated trips to this field at a late time of day without improving pilot proficiency was a recipe for disaster and it's unfortunate that no one was able to do a professional debrief with this pilot before the accident flight. This video shows an aircraft that was just a few knots away from a fatal crash during go-around; a few knots that they apparently did not have in August :(.
Watching both videos, I had an initial reaction that the brutal honesty and facts Juan presented felt a bit insensitive to the family effected by the crash. After some thinking though, I realize its more important to highlight these mistakes because it could save the lives of pilots or aspiring pilots.
When I was on a fire crew, we flew into Big Creek where there is no go-around option. There is a hog’s back between the downwind and the runway, and often there is some water runoff across the lower (approach) end of the runway. Landing is uphill into a box canyon. We were in a 206. Mountain flying instruction (available at McCall) can save your life. Otherwise charter with an experienced local pilot. One instructor who lost her life training a student had flown mail into the back country.
I enjoy your explanations Jaun. You are so clear in your analysis of these mistakes. In this case, could having escaped disaster once maybe given him a false sence of confidence in his abilities?
To be candid, I could possibly envision overestimating my skill and trying this once. But after this incident, with a relatively light tailwind component, I'd be thinking it was a message from God that I need some serious training mountain flying before trying it yet again, on a warmer day with a greater tailwind. This is very sad but very predictable.
I don't think this was a mountain flying issue. Maybe a short field issue. This all started with an unstable approach, which probably happened to him all the time elsewhere but those runways were longer.
I didn’t want to add insult To injury but I have a video of this same plane doing the same thing in southern Utah and then a video of it over running the runway.
Juan, I've been a long-time subsciber and aviation enthusiast. I am a surgeon, and you even have a video covering a fatal accident of someone I knew. I chose not to be a pilot because my grandfather, a WWII fighter pilot for the Republic of China 🇹🇼 and career military, always warned of the dangers of not being completely proficient. The alternative was usually fatal. He flew combat from 1937-1950s from the Curtis Hawk to the P-51 Mustang in the war against Japan. He survived not only flying but also being shot at on a routine basis. So I completely understand the importance of competence in flying. That being said, why do folks not build into airports safety by design (engineered safety). For example, no large trees at the end of the runway, don't build airports in inherently dangerous areas, etc. Curious about your thoughts?
That sloppy "6000 feet of pavement technique" will bite your ass when the chips are down. I'm very fortunate that my Dad taught me to fly on 2000 feet of rolling pasture down in a hole in the woods.
Exactly!! The strip I learned to fly at was like that to a extent. The city boys who came to land at the country, non controlled strip were scared sh!%less to land there. Some even claimed it was impossible. I just shook my head and though, if you ever lose a engine you're going to be in big trouble.
Awesome follow up Juan! I would be curious to know if he had any training with a flight instructor that knows this area. It would seem that more training was required.
Just going to say it; Stupidity. Stupidity from this pilot killed him, his passenger, and destroyed an absolutely beautiful airplane. 100% avoidable. Infuriating. I swear, some pilots fly like some people drive...
You’re correct. But it can be too easy to see the stupidity of others while shrugging off our own lapses of judgement. We all do stupid things from time to time, even when we know better. I think the trick is to not do stupid things where the results might be catastrophic or fatal but also to know the difference. I’m not a pilot, but these videos cause me to reflect on my own behavior and serve as a reminder to not cut corners and to pay attention even when I am doing routine stuff. (It’s bad enough when a person is (over) confidently operating outside of their envelope of competency, but it’s embarrassing when I do something dumb within my competency. Embarrassment is good. It probably means I can learn from my dumb mistake because I’m not dead. It’s possible that the pilot in the video was too embarrassed to seek advice and additional training. Or he might have thought of his first near accident as a challenge that he had met successfully. We may never know, but either one is an example of stupidity.
The absolute truth is hard to swallow, and if you're a pilot who has a hard time being humbled, or can't handle your own ego, it would behoove you to quit flying now, PERIOD!!
I remember a Husky a few years back that did the same thing. I thought he was going to crash when he initiated the go-around and hit the top of one of those pine trees at the end. He made it without crashing, then he came back and did almost the same thing, but he did get it stopped all the way at the end of the runway. I talked to him afterwards and he told me that he said he had thousands of hours in a Lear Jet. Obviously, none in the backcountry.
About Juan's comment about who's training these guys. I got my pilots ratings in the late 70's and I couldn't find an instructor who would teach me spins and recoverys. The fifth instructor taught me, but explained that it wasn't part of the training curriculum for Cessna or Piper because the FAA didn't require it.
Unfortunately when a person gets a license to fly it’s up to that person to get any additional training! Many pilots think when they get their license they are covered for all phases of flight ! It’s really an unsafe situation ! And it’s a proven fact with the amount of accidents we are experiencing ! So what do we do to correct this sad situation ? We can’t just sit here with our heads up our a s ! We need to try and fix this sorry situation ! Thanx Juan for your attempt to try and get some ground training out to help the situation, I’m sure you are saving some lives and I guess the rest of the pilots that don’t continue to learn after they get there license we will just have to watch the natural selection process happen ! But its not fair to the innocent passengers and loved ones ! It’s really easy to ask where is the lord ,but maybe things are better on the other side ?Who knows ?Everyone in aviation needs to work towards ( True Safety Is No Accident ) Thanx for reading this ! Captain Mark H Wirth
Just earned my license a few months ago and still get nervous flying to a nearby airport with no nearby terrain just to practice laps on a calm sunny day. I can't understand people not recognizing the potential danger and lack of skill for this kind of landing
Practice short field techniques on your own familiar airport, with an instructor before attempting the real thing on real short fields. That is the best advice I can pass on This aircraft is easily capable of stopping in 1500 feet, even my airliner at light weight can stop in a similar distance (and we have no reverse thrust)
@@chrisg9627 Exactly. Pick an intersection on the runway or something similar to be the end of your imaginary short field. You will be surprised how little actual runway even fairly high performance aircraft need if managed correctly on final. Also find a grass field to fly to, helps get a better sight picture of landing on grass (and it's also a lot of fun).
![F.HERO Ft. JSPKK x ลำไย ไหทองคำ x M-PEE - ไม่สนิทบิดหมด (Thai Riders Anthem) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kPJZ0UihBfk/mqdefault.jpg)
That was a close call. Its amazing that this video exists that basically documents what happened later.
Between the two videos we've seen, I think the NTSB has some pretty good documentation.
@@Gallery90 Too bad the NTSB is inept in their duties.
@@michaelbryant7377 And how did you come to that conclusion? They can only do so much with the funding allocated. Plus the NTSB's role is primarily advisory.
@@bishopdredd5349 Yea... there are some serious salaries that have to be attended to. Who has time for investigation and recommendations?
@@michaelbryant7377 Are you sure you haven't mixed up NTSB and FAA?
My neighbor in his 50s got his ppl a few years ago. Got his instrument rating right after. Then started talking about buying a high performance aircraft to fly his wife around to visit the kids. He bought a airplane similar to the 206 but with retractable gear. He used the same instructor all through including the HP checkout. He was proud of his airplane and asked me to go for a flight with him. ( im a high time airline/GA pilot with alot of time in his type of aircraft) I saw a lot of concerning things and one was a failure to operate the aircraft at the POH recommended speeds. He made a landing similar to the video crow hopping along. He flew at least 20kts over the POH speeds. When I asked him why he told me his instructor told him to fly faster because it was safer. After we got back to the hangar I took the POH out and showed him the speeds he should be flying and that maybe he should consider a different flight instructor. Now after a gear up incident the plane is repaired and he still using the same instructor.. how do you tell someone they are an accident waiting to happen?
You tell them once . If they don't listen, wash your hands of it and if he crashes and dies, do NOT send "condolences".
You can’t reason with the unreasonable.
It's not possible to have a conversation with people like that sadly. I'm not sure if it's a bigger problem today or I'm just old ,HA
Not a pilot, so tell me why people go there? The artistry of the landing?Sasquach viewing? Great restaurant? Seems like that is an air strip designed for bush pilots in STOL planes.
I won’t call this guy stupid, but could be more money than brains. Edit. I took a lesson once in a 150hp Tripacer. Could that plane even land at this place?
And why didn’t I continue with lessons? $25/hour and my pay was $20/day.
Great Post,,, "Bird Man,,, Great Post,,,
Rarely do we get the opportunity to witness someone practicing what became a fatal crash several months later.
Isn't that the truth.
First one was a dry run
@@GuitarRyder11 nearby gas station has some t-shirts with humorous things on them for sale. One says: if at first you don't succeed, maybe skydiving isn't for you
I am from salmon Idaho
I fly backcountry quite often. My instructor made me promise to not fly after 10 am. He put the fear of God in me. I have stuck to my promise and so far it’s kept me alive. Backcountry flying is awesome but very little room for error. Bless all pilots to learn from this video and your other videos. Thanks Juan
Bless the families that have lost loved ones. It’s not easy to lose a loved one to aviation.
Trumptards and imaginary deities. What could go wrong.
@@James-ly9im the wind thru mountains or canyons is typically wildly turbulent and unforgiving , generally in the afternoons, yes. Safe flying !
Why not fly after 10am ? 10am local or zulu
@behindthen0thing525 The air is cooler in the morning therefore DA is lower. Also any mountain valley is going to have a slight pressure differential gradient between opposing ends, which creates increasing wind and turbulence. The exception is if one is in the center of a high pressure dome.
Dan city altitude is a killer if you don’t plan for it. Most of these airstrips and Idaho are already at a high altitude. Combine that with winds that are generally higher and more turbulent in the afternoons. 10 AM is a general rule, but one that I tried to live by.I applied the backcountry only in the mornings personally.
The guy just wasn't competent to land there, but didn't know enough to recognize it or wasn't willing to admit it. A sad example of the Dunning-Kruger principle in action.
Egos have caused more wrecks than anything else... period...
Agree
%100
Agreed 100 %
I agree, but I will go even further. Sadly the guy wasn't competent to fly that aircraft, regardless of where. He didn't do a proper landing checklist. He didn't do final checks (besides the landing check list he didn't do final checks, like G[U]MPS or B[U]PFF - The [U]ndercarriage doesn't apply to the C206). The fact that he was unable to full-forward the prop on go around meant that he didn't have the instinct to add power starting with the levers from the right to the left (first mixture, then prop, then throttle), which had he done the checklist, wouldn't be needed. Besides that, he didn't listen to the aircraft and didn't relate the lack of noise to a coarse pitch, which meant he wasn't instinctively familiarized with the aircraft, which comes mostly with experience and could have been an additional safety net in spite of his very poor discipline (I still fly with my David Clark H10-13.4 headsets, so I am completely ignorant if ANR headsets could be an additional factor here). It also likely meant that the workload of the go around exceeded his capability. But, the worst of all was that he was always behind the aircraft.
This video is all the NTSB needs.
And the insurance carrier…
@@wendymontie5660irrelevant. Insurance pays for accidents.
for his funeral too ?
I’m that kid in the jacket recording. I was pretty shaken from almost watching the worse wreck I’ve seen.
where is your video posted?? PLEASE POST THE VIDEO, so we can all LEARN from it!!!
@@KuostA it’s the same exact video as this one just a vertical version of it. I haven’t posted it yet though.
@@jakemagnuson You really should, there could be one frame that shows something relevant that the other video does not show as clearly.
Did the pilot come around and attempt to land again, or did he leave the area?
Why were you all filming? Am I right in assuming this wasn’t his first time doing this type of approach…?
Definitely a great case I will be sharing with my students. Just from the energy management perspective, there is a lot to be studied here. Keep up the great work
This is a great example of someone who got a pilot license to kill himself and an innocent passenger. This video really does show why no instructor ever should pass a student who cannot perform a soft field landing 100% proficiency at least 10 times in the course of his or hers flight lessons. This guy was not in the least bit in control of this aircraft. Way too much plane for him… now he’s dead because someone in his aviation circle of friends did not tell him that.
@@Thegr8iam-p7tor perhaps they did but he was NOT "listening " ego ? As a mater of interest what Flap setting was appropriate in this situation with this Aircraft please ? I am not a qualified Pilot however when I can I do fly with an experienced pilot Cessna 152, 180 and an old Wingeal Trainer only the money stops me ! To me the Aircraft was too low and too slow to go around ? I would have either held the nose weal up a little (balance) and if required start the go around much earlier? Thanks mate. 🦅🇺🇸🦘🇦🇺
RE: Narrator comment: "...at this point he needs to bite the bullet and stay on the ground.." I fully agree. Sometimes the ingrained training about going around from a PIO can be applied out of context. Going off the far end at a survivable speed is the better of two evils compared to the go-around stall/spin likelihood. Sadly, this all provides a classic training moment ("How NOT to do this...") for everyone except that pilot who needs it most. RIP.
Yup. There’s no way I’d fly into these mountain strips, without good training, and several good escorted trips first. It’s just not worth it. A lot of these air strips are do or die on takeoffs, and landings.
I mean theres a great song "you can always go around" and it doesnt really give any limitations of going around. Thats a catch phrase for beginner pilots at 5000+ foot training runways to know.
So true. When I did my backcountry training in here in Idaho my instructor drilled into my head a verbal call out at the final decision “go/no-go” point. After that point you WILL land. If a herd of elk walk onto the runway - you WILL still land, because a go around at that point will not be successful.
Thanks for the followup Juan, it sheds light on the mistakes made, and repeated on his last flight.
After your last video on this accident i fired up my fs2020 sim and shot some approaches in a full loaded 172. I am not a qualified pilot, but have about 25 hours in gliders from uni. In any case my 3 hours of messing around taught me a great deal. Initially i found landing there a breeze, as i sat comfortably in my chair with no stress or worries about messing it up. Then i deliberately attempted a go around from the same place as this guy. At the time you add power it looks golden, like you have all the time and space in the world, but i discovered very fast that those trees are taller and closer than you think once you factor in the altitude and reduced performance of the aircraft. Your point about mushing when pulling the flaps in is also spot on, as my virtual cessna almost found out during my experiments. I then remembered i had not added the tail wind he had on the day of the accident. This made landing almost impossible and the only way i got in was flying much further down the valley. I could really see how pilots can be sucked into a situation with few or no ways out. while i didnt have any crashes, i was sat stress free (ish, i was getting tired after 3 hours) in my computer chair with a respawn button to bail me out. Under real conditions it would be so easy to make a mess of it.
What is so surprising to me is even for a non-pilot like myself who’s “flown” virtually on a simulator for over 20 years that even I and I’m sure many other sim pilots who come to watch Juan’s videos can see the foolish mistakes that were made in this case. Flying virtually and doing it seriously is all about procedures and checklists and “doing things by the book” and to see here what appears to be a total lack of procedure following and plain bad airmanship is totally baffling to me. I think flying is more about having half a brain and not having a god complex. Do things right, follow the procedures, double check yourself and if it doesn’t look right or feel right go around and try again. These accidents just keep on coming and they all seem to have common themes: I know better and get-there-itis.
@@carosel43 You are bright person. . If you have the "nerves of steel" to NOT PANiC, and quickly process what could be going wrong in a real world "flight upset", instead of freezing up, you'd probably make a good pilot. The reason there is now such a shortage, is because the really good pilots are all retiring out. You have the intelligence and SA " situational awarenes" to become a really good pilot. Might want to think about persuing that. It pays well after 10 years experience. And others here may be able to tell you where you can get your flight training for free. Help this one out if you know. Appears to have a fore thinking brain.
@@carosel43 Also if you want to become a real pilot, start watching the series "Mayday". You will learn so much about deadly pilot mistakes, and also the very best pilots, that saved the bacon, in which a lesser skilled pilot would have crashed and burned. Piloting is a real skill, where you have fly in a tight envelope of circumstances. Not like driving a car at all.
You aren't taking into account the constant speed prop. Re-try this in the sim with an aircraft that has a blue lever. When starting the go around, don't push that blue lever forward and you will see how bad a condition this pilot was in.
@@jvtaylor3 Yea i didnt know the 208 had a cs prop and as i dont have a 208 in the sim i cant try it. I just used the 172 as it was available and remember this was only done out of curiosity, not a scientific study. You are right though, having a cs prop set incorrectly will cripple the performance.
Also to note is the possibility that his prop setting allowed for much less drag on approach, making deceleration that much more of a challenge.
Great Video. Went back and rewatched the first video where the incident was verbally described by a witness of the fatal crash in August. Amazing how his description of the fatal mishap almost beat for beat matched the video footage of this barely completed go around.
Thank you Juan! I cannot express the value that your videos and explanation add to general aviation! I am a low-hours SEL retired pilot who has a F-35 Pilot as a neighbor. We both appreciate your work! You are LEGEND at Luke AFB Juan! Be well and THANK YOU, Sir!❤❤
I found ‘Blancolirio’ in 2018 when I was searching YT for the Miami University pedestrian Bridge Catastrophe which killed/injured some drivers passing underneath. Ironically an 18 year old student at the school was crushed while riding in a car.
I’ve never looked back!
@@joshiasbaja3934 I drove under that bridge the night before it collapsed. I was on my way home from work. Was very happy to see that bridge finally completed since at least one FIU student had been killed crossing the extremely busy "Calle Ocho" (Eight Street)/Tamiami Trail road US 41. It collapsed less than 24 hours later. RIP
Interesting to note that the cowl flaps are open. Checklists call for them to be closed for landing. Perhaps it is another indication of a lack of checklist usage.
I'm not experienced with cowl flap operations. Is manipulating the cowl flaps part of the procedure for a GO-AROUND? If yes, at what point in go around does a pilot worry about the cowl flaps? I'm guessing that cowl flaps are open for a normal take-off.
@@chetmyers7041open the cowl flaps during go around when you have time to get to it.
@@chetmyers7041 Big high performance engines are really picky with temperature, and can grenade themselves if there are large changes in temperature in a short period of time due to their size/volume.
Cowl flaps closed on landing preserves heat in the engine so that you don't crack the block in case of a go around, as that is pretty much the worst time for your engine to go out, as I'm sure you're aware. On a normal takeoff without any power changes (staying at full) they are open to prevent the engine from overheating as its working hard with little ram airflow due to the low speeds.
In a go around, opening the CF isn't the highest on the priority list (in my opinion, always follow A/C checklists/memory items however) until you're stabilized in the climb as full power, airspeed, and flap retraction are your big priorities.
Great follow up on this story. Good to see the earlier attempt and go around
Another needless loss of life.
Thank you for this update.
Needless? Maybe. But unavoidable when people have free will. If I did something like show in the video, I would seriously think what went wrong and try to get better. The pilot did the exact same thing twice meaning to him this landing was just “how the plane flies”. Or something.
let us learn from his unfortunate mistakes and not let his death(s) be in vain.
As a McCall resident of fifty years and flying the back country for all that time this kind of piloting has me spooked about even flying into all of my treasured spots in the Idaho Central Mountains. Pilots with little or no training and a large ego (and pocketbook) are invading this area and risking their lives as well as endangering other pilots. In addition to all of the actual flying skills there are numerous other skills that most of these folks lack. Proper radio comms, tight canyon traffic procedures, mountain wave experience, steep stabilized approach skills and many others. Just watching a You-Tube of someone flying his Kitfox in the backcountry ain't gonna save your life.... A footnote - there have been 2 fatal mid-air collisions at Johnson Creek in recent years.
You hit the nail on the head, and very well said. With the "boom" in STOL flying the last 10 years or so, there have been a excess of people thinking "I can do that too" that don't have the training or wherewithal to handle back country, bush type flying. That is just a fact!! Get the proper training guys!! Some are just NOT meant to do this!!
McCall is a great town. I have rafted with Hughes many times. Very sad the Lodge was remodeled and all the history in the bar had gone.....of course the remodel happened 25 years ago!
Ouch...that Kitfox reference was pretty targeted, I do believe
Excellent comment. I see so many pilots doing touch and goes, or they fly in, stand around, talk and take off again to go get breakfast. Those types are going to anger the Forest Service and-or environmentalists and we are going to lose our treasured back country air strips.
Thanks for the comment. You'd wonder if Bryant or whoever current owner would close the runway after a fatality like last month.
Thank you, Juan. It must be frustrating to see these "untrained" pilot doing things that must be avoided to prevent accidents. Thanks for the report.
Im not Mr Browne obviously, but yes, it is. And to see mishaps like Jenny Blalock(?) and others, where they clearly had no business flying an airplane in the first place...
But even well trained, well experienced aviators still can make fatal mistakes, obviously. Which is why we must never allow ourselves to become complacent or allow normalization of deviance, which unfortunately takes so many lives.
Also Spatial D. I personally wouldnt be opposed to making an Instrument rating just a capstone part of getting a PPL. Included in a PPL. Or at least more "Recognize, Confirm, Recover" and "Inadvertent flight into IMC" training. If not the whole Instrument rating requirements, at least some more of it should be included in a basic PPL, IMHO.
@@MattH-wg7ou I think this is like Jenny has nothing to do with mountain flying this guy doesn't know how to properly land a plane. Could be other videos of him bouncing down runways possibly security cameras.
"Frustrating" to pilots equates to terror in non aviators. Is there any accountability within this industry? Juan used the term Porpoising but it looked more like a bucking bronc rider to me and I am really concerned about the licensing requirements.
@@Mike-01234I think it’s more accurate to say he didn’t know how to land a plane in these conditions. A steeper glide slope, a tail wind, and a completely different go-around procedure. Places like this call for you knowing ahead of time that you’re off, and initiating the go around early, with a checklist to get the airspeed and climb rate back up fairly quick. If you go below that point, you have to freaking commit to sticking the landing, one way or another. It’s much easier to do a go around for an attempted landing, when you’re on a long, paved air strip, with nothing to worry about clearing (where the majority of people get flight instruction). Mountainous air strips are a completely different animal.
Curious if any of the veteran Johnson Creek pilots had a dutch uncle talk with the pilot. That prop in cruise setting sounded like half throttle. Normally a turbo C206 has quite a snarl to it. The fact that he eventually made it in once made him feel qualified to do it again.
Juan, are you going to look at the Swift/C206 mid-air in Minden,NV ?
I'm Dutch and I never knew the expression 'Dutch Uncle' so I looked it up, learned again. Must say I can also be pretty blunt if I want someone to realise something or learn something. Think that will be a thing of the past since because these days it's easily mistaken by some as an unsafe work environment
My initial reaction was "yikes - he's SO fast!". And then sheer disbelief as I hear NO change in the prop on the go-around. Like watching a glider or something - just "oops" and float on by, almost silently.
Years ago I had a friend who was a high-time USAF C-130 pilot, who happened to own a C-206. We were flying at night back to his home airport (Potomac Airfield, KVKX). I was a relatively new Private Pilot in the right seat. My friend, LTC Don Bxxxxx , really impressed me with his precision flying abilities that night. He was laser focused and flew the approach in a short field landing configuration, making precise corrections to airspeed and glide path all the way down to his aim point (touchdown) with a level of precision I have rarely seen since! He possessed extraordinary flying skills and was a master aviator of the highest caliber!
when half loaded these planes have so much power, they are so easy to land precisely, the big mistake is going too fast, they are 10 to15kts slower then most low wings
Did you marry him?
I was at Jonson Creek the prior year, I am pretty positive the same plane landed the exact same way when I was there. Came in high and fast, floated down the runway, bounced several times, and had to veer to the left to avoid the trees on go-around. He came back later, 30 minutes, and made a ungrateful but successful landing. When he exited the airplane, his whole family was with him. Exact same color scheme and belly pod. A really nice plane.
Definitely not the same guy. The plane was acquired this year
Your wrong. It was purchased early 2023.
High-time instrument-rated Private Pilot here, with about 400 hrs in the 206. I am in no way bad mouthing a dead pilot. There but for the grace of God, go I . . .but it appears from this and the crash video that the mishap pilot may have never received a proper checkout, let alone a Mountain checkout in the 206. The 206 is a good honest airplane, a bit heavy on the controls, but you gotta know your ship!
Checkouts occur only for some rentals and when your company assigns you a different airplane or they need to see how you fly during a hiring and assignment process. Private owners operating part 91 don't have to jump through any hoops to use public airports. But you are right as regards the lack of proficiency in mountain flying, which all pilots should know (and their instructors had better teach them as per the ACS!) is a technical mission requiring additional ground and flight training, including accident studies exactly like Mr, Brown presents so often.
Wow catching that same plane on video months before the accident is insane i feel like if you didnt learn from that event you probably never were going to learn
Thank you for sharing this. I was one of the firefighters that responded to the fatal accident in August this year. An unfortunate scene that I'll have in the back of my mind forever. Tragic loss. RIP to the pilot and passenger. Condolences those having to bear the loss.
You'd be surprised what your brain discards over the years. I was reading over some of my old notes from the early days of my paramedic career about 25 years ago and there was one about my responding to a call for a dude who was fully engulfed in flames in the front yard of someone's house for some unknown reason (called in by a bus driver early on a Sunday morning), but at this point I have absolutely no recollection of that incident!
@@joshyaks IMO, it depends, I do a lot of road cycling, one time witnessed an accident where a baby died, and the mom was screaming from the top of her lungs, please wake up, please you are not dead, holding her in her arms...
I don't know about you, there is no way I can forget that. I almost turned around to help in a way I could, even if it was from emotional support, but I just could not, I cried all the way back home and gave my kids a big hug.
I do a lot of praying, meditation and 100% stay away from buzz.
To the firefighter, I have you in my prayers my friend.
@@Helfiredrew so sorry you had to see this. Much respect to you and fellow workers going on these calls.
@@joshyaks appreciate it. I definitely realize time helps.
@joshyaks I've been to a number of fatal car wrecks, homicides, and suicides. I wasn't a first responder but a tow truck driver so my experiences are not comparable to EMS/fire fighters though I have watched a few people die in front of me. I used to remember each one and knew how many I cleaned up but eventually it got to the point I lost count. I think its 15-20. I think our minds forget things on purpose. I only had one that bothered me. A man was ran over and dragged deliberately for miles. I was fortunate none of the incidents involved kids.
Sometimes man stumbles upon the truth. But, often, he picks himself up and keeps on going ...
Churchill said that, and was very correct.
Sounds like you're advocating putting someone who has never flown a plane in the pilot's seat and gambling they'll land the plane without incident. And then pick themselves up if they crash they should jump in another plane and keep crashing until they get it right. ...which would be a violation of federal law.
@@erickborling1302That's not what that quote is saying at all. It means: sometimes people get an opportunity to see the truth, but they decide to ignore it anyway. The quote doesn't advocate for this, it's just an observation of behavior.
Captain Bill Hartmann was my flight instructor at San Carlos airport. After spending 10 hours mountain flying with "Capt.Bill" my wife and I flew a southwest trip in our Cessna 152 without any problems. Always flew early morning sometimes at sunrise to take advantage if cooler sir, used soaring techniques to climb. The greatest vacation of our life. Grand Canyon, Sedona, Taos, Arches, monument valley. Everyone I knew said the 152 was not powerful enough. I trusted "Captain Bill" the greatest CFI in the world. He said if you follow the rules you'll be fine.
On a positive note, yes, there is one, these two videos along with your presentations and explanations would be excellent examples in the mountain training of which you spoke. I'll bet watching this will burn the proper procedure into student brains permanently. Thank you once again Juan for helping all pilots learn from others' mistakes.
Indeed. Let’s save some lives, shall we?
So I'm thinking the fact that the power of the 206 having saved his arse the first time perhaps made him think it could overcome his stupidity again. After that first try he had no business flying in there. Full stop.
He wasn't even using full power because he forgot to go to full fine with the prop!
Absolute class per the usual, Juan. Good job threading the needle of conveying the unacceptable behaviors for those who might need to hear it and maintaining respect for the deceased.
So sad, arrogance, bull headedness, who knows. one of the first things my instructor drilled into me when i was getting my high performance endorsement was prop full forward on final in the event of a go around, oh ya, its on the checklist too. Excellent video as normal, thanks Juan
@@rchuyck on all adjustable props , it’s always procedure to put prop full forward in any/all landing configurations
It helps slow the plane down too. I typically go fine no later than base leg. In the sort of terrain in the video, I'd be in fine downwind.
@@TyphoonVstrom Agreed. Flew in Minnesota where it’s flat, in this case, I agree, downwind would get that out of the way and help you to slow down, nose wheel first is never a good thing.
Seriously? Juan, you're a professional pilot, as am I. I have flown the Cessna 206 (amongst others). When I see that video from June? I am appalled,
Speechless.. As pilots,? We make decisions constantly. NEVER put your life, or anyone else, in danger!
172, VFR guy here.. wouldn’t his propeller have been full forward for landing config already? Or was the witness/filmer indicating it was out of position on approach? Checklist item if he ran it on the way down…
That's why I don't fly with incompetent pilots
@@Brahmlullies I think it was mentioned in the video that he must have missed a checklist item. (too lazy to find the timestamp).
I don't know. Everyone gets preachy about safety in aviation TH-cam comments then breaks the speed limit driving to the airport with brake pads and rotors long overdue on a frame that's rusted out.
@@Brahmlulliesnot in full fine. 206 has a very distinctive sound when full fine.
Just watching this video made me uncomfortable. I can't believe the guy lived this from the cockpit and went back for seconds.
I've flown the C206, and it is a lot of airplane. Watching this video tells me it was too much airplane for him, and he was just an accident waiting to happen. There's always a pattern with these guys. My roommate in CA was a professional pilot, and he had a habit of running out of fuel, with two forced landings under his belt from fuel exhaustion. Unfortunately, later on, he was flying a corporate twin Commander on an ILS in the weather, and he ran out of fuel on the approach, and took out him, and three company executives who were passengers.
Doesn't sound like IFR fuel planning to me..😢
Don't conflate "commercial" pilot with "professional." He may have had the cert, but definitely not the attitude.
First mistake was such a high and steep approach. He was aiming probably past the 1000 ft mark, not aiming close enough to threshold
Good training for when you have lots of runway to work with, not so much on a tiny field.
First mistake was getting into the airplane that day....
Thank you for spending the time and effort in creating the video of the T206H. After hearing about the accident, and knowing that the pilot was dedicated to making LIGA flights in Mexico and having visited our resort, I couldn't help but wonder what happened at Johnson Creek. My last airplane (3,500 hours) was the same make and model (belly pod too), thus could truly put myself behind the yoke in that video.
That was a dreadful example of piloting skills, mountain flying or not. Totally out of his element at the controls of an aircraft.
The 206 is such a sweet and capable aircraft. I worked in Alaska serving the interior Indian villages years ago, the 206 is a load hauler.
Very sobering videos. Thank you Juan.
“Aviation is a self-cleaning oven.”
After living in Alaska for nearly 50 years i can agree with you 100 percent. With the flight path to Merrill field in Anchorage right over my house we hope to avoid one of those "cleaning" events.
"Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
- Captain Alfred G. Lamplugh c/o my CFI
I get the intent, and I've heard the quote numerous times before, but I'd say aviation IS inherently dangerous, not least because it IS so 'terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect'.
Didn’t Juan Brown make a reference to a poster that he got from his father with this quote!?
please add the photo that went with that slogan, a bi-plane from the twenties had planted itself into the crotch of a tree!!!
For anyone wondering, this quote is attributed to Captain Alfred G. Lamplugh, a legendary British aviator.
Stupid quote. Aviation is inherently dangerous precisely because of its lack of forgivingness.
Thanks Juan, you had me screaming at my screen watching that! Jeeeezz!!
I was lucky enough to see the Flying Wallendas a couple of times in the early 70s when the Shrine Circus came to New Orleans. It was crazy. Salute to those folks.
It quite amazes me how people can own such a plane, and fly it like that.
their goes the insurance rates
More money than Brains
All the gear and no idea
As well as the apparent lack of Back Country training / experience, the thing that stuck in my mind was that with a constant speed prop, part of your Before Landing Checklist, (In everything I've flown with a CS Prop, and in the dozens of manuals I've read for airplanes with Constant Speed Props, is that after you turn to final, you ensure that the Mixture is Rich, and the Prop is in Full Increase. If nothing else, is saves the number of things you have to do if you do need to go around.
There’s a book I read a long time ago called Mountain Flying. I recall advice like circle until your 1000 feet higher than the ridge you plan to cross in case of powerful rotors and downdrafts. Approach that ridge at a 45 degree angle in case you can’t clear it and must turn back. Easier than an Immelmann.
Unfortunate. That was a nice looking 206.
A beauty it was, RIP 206! 🙏
Looks like the pilot has never learnt the correct landing technique for the 206
I imagine the around the campfire talk later that evening included pleasantries and information that went right over his head.
He wasn’t at my campfire that night but it was very real talking about what had almost gone bad to that pilot that night.
You are not going to believe who this pilot was. Name is Charlie Brown and he has an unbelievable history of flying. I was with him in June at Big Creek. Probably 15000 hour + pilot. Air tankers, Doctors with out boarders, historic bombers, and 100s of hours in the back country. Great guy. I have a video of his departure from Big Creek.
Are you sure? It doesn't make sense that someone with that much experience would repeatedly fly so poorly.
probably his advanced age. Maybe late 80’s
@@CommercialRE305 Ah, okay.
@@CommercialRE305he was 75.
@@k.tracyreynolds9246 I knew Charlie. Age (75) and over confidence ( he had flown in there dozens of times) caught up to him. He had a tremendous amount of experience!
I took my C172 into Johnson Creek a couple of months ago. It is a real challenge. I decided that for my airplane, I am committed at about 300-400 feet -- my performance is more limited than, say C182 or C206. I had a bit of tail wind, and I had to slip it all the way into the flair, almost to touchdown. If you come out of the slip before you are in a flair you will immediately pick up energy and will float. This can be seen in the video -- if he held the slip for an additional 5 seconds he would have bled off the excess energy.
Hold the slip through the flare and touch the upwind wheel first at stall speed, basic stick and rudder skills.
@@kennethmcdonald4807 @Vanya80151 Nice tip guys
When I was a newly minted Pvt pilot I did a T&G at Everglades City in Collier county FL. The flaps in the C172 failed to retract after I shoved in the throttle. The Australian pines at the end of the runway were coming up fast. I was mentally paralyzed! Had I been solo I would have hit the trees. Fortunately I had an A&P in the right seat and he recycled the flap switch. Flaps retracted. Well, we sunk about 50' but the density altitude was low and the Cessna was able to clear the trees. Great lesson learned cheap.
I fly a PA 32R300 Lance and this is the exact reason why I like the dead stupid simple flap handle there's no way to ever have it do that. I always loved Pipers for that
@@davidkadish2048 In Pipers there is no indication on the panel or glareshield that the flaps are extended. At night in a dark cockpit or with a distraction you can go around or take off with full flaps extended, a poor human factors design, in my opinion. I discovered a 200HPArrow can takeoff and climb well like this at 60 with just the pilot and half fuel. I think I was a test pilot for about 4 minutes. We had a Lance 32R300 in our club but it was mostly used for day trips.
A great example we see over and over: pilot gets away with something sketchy. Sometimes for years. Then everyone dies.
Did the Blancolirio Global Headquarters move? It looks like your office is the same as when you bunk up at your brother's house during snow storms in years past?
We did....closer to the airport...
Keep preaching reverend Juan and keeping us safe!
If I dodged a bullet, WHEW! But I wouldn't hang around while the shooter is reloading!
As a pilot and plane owner for 50 years I would never fly with him seeing that.
Not only need to be competent in mountain flying but in flying in general. The props being back and not recognizing and correcting why the plane wasn't performing.
Dude dodged death and went back for more? Geez
We had a court case here in Australia recently where someone who escaped a guilty verdict in a criminal matter then launched civil defamation proceedings (different burden of proof). He lost and in the judgement the Magistrate noted that after having that good fortune "you came back for your hat".
This bloke came back for his hat.
@@nickmaguire4914 exactly!
As an aside, I would not want to live in that white house that can be seen just past the end of the runway. Not sure why anyone would decide to put a house in that particular location.
My guess is that's why the tree is still there!! 🤣🤣
Could it be that the house was there first, and then the landing strip was added later?
@@demef758 I believe so, as in the previous video, it was mentioned that the owners of that house, donated the ground on which the airfield is, for that purposes, on condition that they use that particular runway, and NOT the one coming in over their house, unless absolutely necessary. (If I remember the last video corectly)
They say the same of Widsor Castle
@@edmoore3910 lol
I am well retired, ex floatplane, Mountain flyer in BC Canada. These two videos you have commented on shook me to the core of all the ones you have done. I have made my mistakes and learned from them. This was the opposite, it looks like it empowered the pilot to make a repeat. Good reporting.......
2nd Degree Murder of a beautiful Cessna 206. Absolutely tragic!
Damn that’s sad, he should’ve made sure he knew how to do it before trying it again but the first time didn’t scare him enough I guess
When you don't learn from history you are doomed to repeat it. He survived in June and that was all he needed to do it all over again. Surviving a screwup once doesn't make you proficient. Thanks for the insight, Juan.
Right, it just makes you extremely lucky!!
#1/ Wow. Is this hubris or knowledge/experience issues?
#2/ What a great network of professionals, to be able to capture this footage,
and now we can see this, showcasing an opportunity for teaching...several things.
#3/ Thanks Juan. ✌🏽🇺🇸
Some people refuse to learn. They just flat out refuse.
Wow, what a close call. Hard to believe he came back for a second bite of that apple.
Yikes makes the hair stand up on my neck. 😵💫😵💫😵💫 🙏🙏🙏🙏
I flew the 206 for about 5 years. Doing a full flap landing when light the flaps tended to block the horizontal stabilizer which could cause porpoising.
Insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results...
That's is the definition of being neurotic, not insanity. Mental health is the ongoing dedication to the truth at all costs. That's how you keep from going insane. Basically anyway.
I think he was probably expecting the same result as the video footage, but that didn’t happen in the last attempt…
He got different results the second time around...
Unbelievable. Darwin Award winner right there.
I was taught early on that once you get comfortable with bad habits they become extremely difficult to break, so it's best not to start them in the first place. In aviation, not having the skill mixed with bad habits is a recipe for disaster.
You learn how to do it wrong. Then you perfect it.
Good point.
Good Day. Thank You Juan and the others involved in presenting this additional video and your description of what happened, and, what should have been done. Reminds me of an old saying, something about "fixing stupid". Very sad ultimate ending. Best Regards.
It's an awesome privilege to be a pilot, but you need a healthy dose of humility to go with it...
The time of day and temp difference between the june and agust and pilot not learning, analyzing what went wrong. Pilot may not even realize his error. Hence does it again in agust.
Sadly the pilot was unfamiliar with backcountry and mountain flying and all that goes with that. If you want to fly in these environments, proper training and experience is required. Great reporting Juan. RIP to the pilot and passenger.
I don't think mountain flying was his problem. I bet you he came in hot elsewhere, too, but always had longer runways to save him.
Incredible that someone recorded this same plane with apparently the same pilot demonstrating poor mountain landing technique a few months before their fatal accident. I'm so sorry to the friends and families affected by this, but hopefully this example can help other pilots avoid the same mistakes :(.
Though they are capable aircraft, a presumably-loaded 206 is not the aircraft to be learning mountain flying and landing in and failing to adjust the prop for a go-around at this altitude and these wind conditions dramatically reduces your chances of escape. The swiss cheese holes here are many as we have a (presumably) loaded aircraft, afternoon wind conditions, an unstabilized approach, an apparent tendency to force high-speed landings (to "stick it"), and a failure to restore maximum climb performance during go-around. There are probably others.
In-flight prop management is definitely taught to pilots during type rating as it's so critical to safety; it's the main reason why Light Sport aircraft are not allowed to have flight-adjustable props.
Repeated trips to this field at a late time of day without improving pilot proficiency was a recipe for disaster and it's unfortunate that no one was able to do a professional debrief with this pilot before the accident flight. This video shows an aircraft that was just a few knots away from a fatal crash during go-around; a few knots that they apparently did not have in August :(.
Watching both videos, I had an initial reaction that the brutal honesty and facts Juan presented felt a bit insensitive to the family effected by the crash. After some thinking though, I realize its more important to highlight these mistakes because it could save the lives of pilots or aspiring pilots.
When I was on a fire crew, we flew into Big Creek where there is no go-around option. There is a hog’s back between the downwind and the runway, and often there is some water runoff across the lower (approach) end of the runway. Landing is uphill into a box canyon. We were in a 206. Mountain flying instruction (available at McCall) can save your life. Otherwise charter with an experienced local pilot. One instructor who lost her life training a student had flown mail into the back country.
Seems to me he didn't even have the basic stuff nailed, never mind mountain flying!
Thanks for this report Juan,safe flights mate,🙏🙏👏👏👋👍🇦🇺
Maybe the first time no one told him, "Man, you can't be flying like that."
Ya, who was the second guy in there?
Would you need telling after this episode and a change of underwear ?
@@Wannes_ Some people are just aloof to realities in life.
I enjoy your explanations Jaun. You are so clear in your analysis of these mistakes. In this case, could having escaped disaster once maybe given him a false sence of confidence in his abilities?
To be candid, I could possibly envision overestimating my skill and trying this once. But after this incident, with a relatively light tailwind component, I'd be thinking it was a message from God that I need some serious training mountain flying before trying it yet again, on a warmer day with a greater tailwind. This is very sad but very predictable.
I don't think this was a mountain flying issue. Maybe a short field issue. This all started with an unstable approach, which probably happened to him all the time elsewhere but those runways were longer.
@@major__kongAgreed. 100% he simply came in about 20 knots too fast and tried to put it down near the middle.
Damn, my throat was dry watching that and thinking of the final flight. I hate to see crashes in real time. Thanks for this followup.
I didn’t want to add insult To injury but I have a video of this same plane doing the same thing in southern Utah and then a video of it over running the runway.
Please forward that video to Juan!
Wow!!! Really?! Good grief....
The pilot was in the hangar across from me. I distinctly remember him returning from a trip with a busted up nose gear pant.
@@juststeve7665I’m looking, I just found the pictures of it off the end of runway
Great research Juan, to get that video and your analysis of the faulty approach. Thank you.
She-It Man is right, he had no business being there
Juan, I've been a long-time subsciber and aviation enthusiast. I am a surgeon, and you even have a video covering a fatal accident of someone I knew. I chose not to be a pilot because my grandfather, a WWII fighter pilot for the Republic of China 🇹🇼 and career military, always warned of the dangers of not being completely proficient. The alternative was usually fatal. He flew combat from 1937-1950s from the Curtis Hawk to the P-51 Mustang in the war against Japan. He survived not only flying but also being shot at on a routine basis. So I completely understand the importance of competence in flying.
That being said, why do folks not build into airports safety by design (engineered safety). For example, no large trees at the end of the runway, don't build airports in inherently dangerous areas, etc. Curious about your thoughts?
That sloppy "6000 feet of pavement technique" will bite your ass when the chips are down. I'm very fortunate that my Dad taught me to fly on 2000 feet of rolling pasture down in a hole in the woods.
Exactly!! The strip I learned to fly at was like that to a extent. The city boys who came to land at the country, non controlled strip were scared sh!%less to land there. Some even claimed it was impossible. I just shook my head and though, if you ever lose a engine you're going to be in big trouble.
You're the best.
@@user-pf5xq3lq8i far from it... but I'm still alive.
Awesome follow up Juan! I would be curious to know if he had any training with a flight instructor that knows this area. It would seem that more training was required.
Just going to say it; Stupidity. Stupidity from this pilot killed him, his passenger, and destroyed an absolutely beautiful airplane.
100% avoidable. Infuriating.
I swear, some pilots fly like some people drive...
You’re correct. But it can be too easy to see the stupidity of others while shrugging off our own lapses of judgement. We all do stupid things from time to time, even when we know better. I think the trick is to not do stupid things where the results might be catastrophic or fatal but also to know the difference.
I’m not a pilot, but these videos cause me to reflect on my own behavior and serve as a reminder to not cut corners and to pay attention even when I am doing routine stuff. (It’s bad enough when a person is (over) confidently operating outside of their envelope of competency, but it’s embarrassing when I do something dumb within my competency.
Embarrassment is good. It probably means I can learn from my dumb mistake because I’m not dead.
It’s possible that the pilot in the video was too embarrassed to seek advice and additional training. Or he might have thought of his first near accident as a challenge that he had met successfully. We may never know, but either one is an example of stupidity.
The absolute truth is hard to swallow, and if you're a pilot who has a hard time being humbled, or can't handle your own ego, it would behoove you to quit flying now, PERIOD!!
I remember a Husky a few years back that did the same thing. I thought he was going to crash when he initiated the go-around and hit the top of one of those pine trees at the end. He made it without crashing, then he came back and did almost the same thing, but he did get it stopped all the way at the end of the runway. I talked to him afterwards and he told me that he said he had thousands of hours in a Lear Jet. Obviously, none in the backcountry.
6:30 - 'didn't he learn his lesson the first time? .. clearly. no. After the first one ... he shoulda sold it and bought a boat.
About Juan's comment about who's training these guys. I got my pilots ratings in the late 70's and I couldn't find an instructor who would teach me spins and recoverys. The fifth instructor taught me, but explained that it wasn't part of the training curriculum for Cessna or Piper because the FAA didn't require it.
4:42 His flaps are definitely retracting to one notch at this point.
Noticed that too, to his credit.
Unfortunately when a person gets a license to fly it’s up to that person to get any additional training! Many pilots think when they get their license they are covered for all phases of flight ! It’s really an unsafe situation ! And it’s a proven fact with the amount of accidents we are experiencing ! So what do we do to correct this sad situation ? We can’t just sit here with our heads up our a s ! We need to try and fix this sorry situation ! Thanx Juan for your attempt to try and get some ground training out to help the situation, I’m sure you are saving some lives and I guess the rest of the pilots that don’t continue to learn after they get there license we will just have to watch the natural selection process happen ! But its not fair to the innocent passengers and loved ones ! It’s really easy to ask where is the lord ,but maybe things are better on the other side ?Who knows ?Everyone in aviation needs to work towards ( True Safety Is No Accident ) Thanx for reading this ! Captain Mark H Wirth
Just earned my license a few months ago and still get nervous flying to a nearby airport with no nearby terrain just to practice laps on a calm sunny day. I can't understand people not recognizing the potential danger and lack of skill for this kind of landing
Practice short field techniques on your own familiar airport, with an instructor before attempting the real thing on real short fields.
That is the best advice I can pass on
This aircraft is easily capable of stopping in 1500 feet, even my airliner at light weight can stop in a similar distance (and we have no reverse thrust)
@@chrisg9627 Exactly. Pick an intersection on the runway or something similar to be the end of your imaginary short field.
You will be surprised how little actual runway even fairly high performance aircraft need if managed correctly on final. Also find a grass field to fly to, helps get a better sight picture of landing on grass (and it's also a lot of fun).
Man, that is eerie to watch. He barely outran the reaper the first time. The second time he wasn't so lucky.
Forrest said it; "Stupid is as Stupid does" Sad!!
Good Lord! 😧😧... gosh... Thank you Juan for sharing this.