Dad says that if ST really wants to parallel the Navy they need a uniform material which feels like it is going to burst in to flame in the next instant while you are in the boiler rooms.
@@alonespirit9923 It would help. I only wore the blueberries for about six months, due to broken service. But it seems to me that we had a good thing with dungarees... inexpensive, comfortable, durable, and reasonably fire-resistant. Who would ever want a working uniform like that?
U.S.S.Bozeman was in 2278, " The Wrath of Khan" took place in 2285. Bozeman's Captain should have inquired " if you are the Enterprise, then where is James T.Kirk?."
A nice bit of fan theory would be that the TNG-era uniforms were issued as part of the 200th Frontier Day celebration in 2351. That would have warranted such a significant and radical design change.
@shinyagumon7015 the US Army has had branch colors since it was established. The branch colors have changed through time. Given that there was a nearly 100 year gap in the Starfleet uniform style, it's not unusual for the color swap to happen. A DS9 episode calls out this color change when the Defiant gets thrown back in time to the TOS era.
@@gobblox38 No I get the color swap actually, like during the movie era Gold/yellow was already the operations engineering color and red just became associated with captaincy in general through the Maroons
It's interesting how the first two just fought against each other while the 3rd guy did everything he could to bridge the gap. he could have just ignored everything they put out and did his own thing but he kept all of those uncomfortable uniforms and put Picard/Jeordi back in them every time there was a flashback episode. Continuity that was unnecessary at the time but much appreciated now that the show is being re-watched and dissected indefinitely.
Scotty wore the movie-era uniform because he was no longer on active duty. They made it clear he had retired. It would be like someone retiring from the Army in 1980; they can still wear the old uniform, but since they're not active duty any more, there's no real incentive for them to upgrade (and it might even make things more confusing, as people would think he was still on active duty).
Having been in the Navy myself, since then I always compartmentalized them as the difference between a dress uniform and a working utility uniform. We seen in TWOK that the bridge staff and command officers are in the red jackets but the actual worker bees are in (a different cut and color but basically similar) jumpers and leggings as we had in TOS and TNG.
Apparently those quilted turtlenecks were pretty expensive to sew and fit, so on "Yesterday's Enterprise", when they not only needed modified uniforms for the alt-timeline TNG crew but also for another ship crew from an unseen era, the only thing they could do for the latter was pull out the movie uniforms and remove pieces, to show Starfleet moving back to a simpler style but also to stretch the budget. A weird idea in the episode is that the old movie badge is now a communicator but only the captain wears it - the lieutenant wears it when he takes over after the captain dies. The jackets looked awkward with nothing under them so colored t-shirts were the subsequent low-budget compromise - at least they matched the division color of the jacket straps. For Kelsey Grammar and two extras at the end of a bottle show they were able to pull together three complete movie uniforms with quilted turtlenecks. Scotty's vest has a leather patch above the right breast where his Captain rank pin is meant to go but he doesn't bother - also Scotty's division color remained gold after his promotion to Captain of Engineering, but beginning with Star Trek IV it was decided James Doohan looked better in the white shirt when only a vest is worn over it. It goes back to gold when he wears a jacket. There is a British TV commerical and some photos where he can be seen in a vest over the gold shirt and it's kind of icky.
It would have looked much better had they taped some thin black trim around the neck of the jackets for that episode. Would have been a subtle change, but more flattering in appearance, and a nice precursor to the black shoulder yoke of the TNG uniforms.
I remember that commercial. I could never figure out what Kirk said after getting the umbrella and then I found out he was using British slang. That explained it!
It is also possible that different uniform types existed simultaneously. When I was in the Air Force, we had several uniform changes in which after releasing a new uniform, the legacy uniform was valid for several years before it would be completely phased out.
I always saw it as different types of uniforms. The movie uniforms to me were more like dress or mess uniforms and what we see in TNG are much like the basic duty uniform (BDU) I was army so in my mindset, the TOS uniforms were like the solid olive BDU, we saw a departure with the first movie uniform then they were wearing what I always regarded as more of a dress uniform type for normal duty. As an MP, some posts would tell us dress or class b uniforms were the standard. TNG, to me is when I would see woodland become the norm for BDU, just like the TNG uniform. You still see admirals in the movie maroons from time to time. Also the difference between DS9 vs TNG is the difference between woodland and desert camp. They are similar, just not the same. Anyway, that's my 2 cents. I may be wrong.
Jup, and in the style of TNG/DS9/VOY - many consider this stile as old and boring, but i consider this stile as realistic, i can imagine a cleaning crew on the bridge of Voyager or DS9 or the Enterprise D but i can hardly imagine a cleaning crew on the fancy glancy outlandish looking bridges of the new Star Trek Movies or Discovery and Strange New World Bridges.
I would rather they start a series about the crew that receives the Enterprise after the STNG crew. The series needs to return to Star Trek's golden age of positive futurism.
I said this recently on the Star Trek reddit about the show needing a new era a la TNG and got flamed lmao. Reddit is such a cesspool. But I think that Trek will start to heal from its recent wounds when they put someone in charge that does this. Set it 100 years after the TNG era and it’ll feel fresh
When there were uniform changes when I was in the military, it was phased in. Active duty got new uniforms first the reserves/ national guard. I didn't see DCU's until I was at MOB site and ACU's I think in country. The uniform changes from movie era to tng could have been done the same way; as needed until everybody was uniform.
I think real life militaries have more of a need for a phase out of old uniforms than starfleet would. There's no reason to keep around old uniforms when starfleet command can send replicator schematics for the new ones to every starship where they'd be replicated at little cost.
God I fucking hate ACU, it doesn't blend in with goddamn anything. There is statistical evidence that ACU has gotten soldiers killed. Why we don't use Flecktarn is beyond me.
Yeah plus even if they were being phased in at the start of TNG I could see Starfleet making sure the flagship crew recievez the newest model quickly mainly for the propaganda usage
@@ryane3703 One thing to keep in mind with phasing in and out that would still apply to the Trek timeline is uniform trials. When a new uniform is being considered, it will be issued to a ship or station, for feedback on the wear and tear. So, at any given time even today, there may be the occasional ship who's crew looks different than everyone else. Sometimes they don't approve that uniform, and the ship will go back to the old style, otherwise, they will be slowly rolled out, after minor changes made from feedback to the users.
@@devenscience8894 that makes sense, and we could consider DS9 one such uniform trail before it got rolled out across starfleet as it was by the time voyager launched. This was it seems shortlived and they wanted something less bright to wear during a time of war hence the suddend and quick roll out of the TNG movie uniform.
A couple of things you might want to take into consideration, the costumes used for the first four movies, were used over and over again, which means by the time TNG came into production, some of them were already nearly 9 years old and seen alot of use. Plus with all the costumes they would need for a new show, and a 5th film already greenlit they would have to come up with their own stock. The idea of distancing in terms of design is a plausible theory but again just a theory. As to exactly when the uniform changeover took place it's pretty well nailed down. The Movie Era ends in 2295 with the launch of the Enterprise -B and TNG begins in 2263, granted that's a 68 year gap, however only 3 flashback sequences I know of show TNG era uniforms, and the oldest is set about 2352, this combined with the recording of Jack Crusher talking to Wesley being about 15 years old at the time, given Wesley's age, it was recorded somewhere around 2350, which means the movie era uniforms had a run of around 70 years with gradual changes...........
The Miranda/Reliant is still in service, the Constellations are still in service, the Excelsiors are still in service and there was a Constitution in service at Wolf 359. The ships serve for a long time, so the ship type has nothing to do with any of it.
Reliant was blown up by the Enterprise, and then whatever was left was obliterated by the genesis device, so I doubt the Reliant itself was still in service in TNG lol. The Miranda class as a whole on the other hand is the forever-ship, that fought alongside the Enterprise J, and if it was still around during the Disco 32nd century I wouldn't be surprised.
Very thorough video, my head cannon for the abrupt uniform change was the signing of the second Khitomer Accord which likely happened in the early 2350s and began the transition of Starfleet from military defense back to exploratory.
I agree that the early 2350s seems like the major turning point for the uniform transition, perhaps for the reasons you mentioned. Thanks for watching. :)
@@ObsessiveCostumingDude I can see the kitomer accords leading to the uniform change fitting into the lore. Starfleet changing its uniforms to mark a transition from the militaristic/Cold War attitude to a more optimistic one. Focused on peace and exploration.
The Federation and Klingons already had a Cold War going in the TOS era, hence the neutral zone. So by Star Trek II, the conflict intensified to the point that Starfleet was mostly seen as a branch of the military rather than a purely scientific and explorational pursuit?
@@EGarrett01 Why does the hero have to be anti-authoritarian? Why can't he just be a military man? Your values are all messed up after years of indoctrination
Uniforms: one of those things everyone knows and sees, yet it doesn't make sense until someone like you puts it altogether. Great research. I personally think one of the reasons for such a dynamic with in styles had to do with the physical shapes of the actors themselves. TOS were fine actors and in shape during their heyday. Fast forward 20-30 years, and you may have noticed they were bigger stars, bigger around the waist. With the exception of Tilly and a handful of others, overweight doesn't seem to be part of StarFleet, even for older and retired officers. I'm not sure if you addressed this, I only watched half the video
One other thing that might come into play, in universe, is that different ships might use different uniforms. While I'm still unsure about the series, Lower Decks shows different uniforms on different ships in the same era. I think they've showed the Voyager, TNG, TNG Movie, and DS9 uniforms from different ships. So the uniforms might be a choice of the captain for the ship there as an additional identifier for the people from a specific ship or station.
@@AzraelThanatos That was exactly what they were trying to say happened in STD, that only the crews of the 12 Constitution class starships wore the pre TOS and TOS era uniform and the rest of the Fleet wore the uniforms as seen on Discovery. Then again, it’s been a long standing “fact” that the 12 Connie class crew uniforms had an unique, individual patch, but as of a few years ago, evidence was found that the intent was for all of the Fleet to wear the arrowhead delta patch as seen on TOS with the Enterprise, and the others were errors.
I always preferred the Naval style movie uniforms. They seemed more fitting of a ship crew (pun not intended). Like they were honoring a long tradition among sailors.
Great video! I’ve written out the starfleet uniform timeline many a time before but it’s great to see someone else do a deep dive on this topic. The twok uniform is the best looking, IMO, and longest serving.
I've seen similar breakdowns before too, but I figured I'd give it a go, and in context of what the costume designers may have been thinking at the time. And I agree, when done well, the TWOK-era uniforms look fabulous. :)
To really match the Navy they need 8 active uniforms: shore utility, ship board utility, dress blue, dress white, office khaki, summer dress white, and PT. Then change one every two years.
When I first saw the Wrath of Khan in '82 I loved the new Monster Maroon uniforms at first sight. I thought that jacket was a throwback to the blue-gray landing party field jackets that were used by the Enterprise crew in "The Cage"/"The Menagerie". So in my mind, I saw continuity between the field jackets of the pilot ep and TWOK uniforms.
I think you nailed it!.. You delivered the content perfectly.. you're cadence and tone was that of seasoned broadcaster... meaning you kept your audience enthralled.. ;) The information was above reproach and VERY informative! Thank you!
Thanks for watching. I'm glad you enjoyed the video. :) I'll be going more into the TWOK-era uniforms and their evolution in my upcoming costume analyses, so keep an eye out for those on my STCG blog: www.startrekcostumeguide.com/
the thing that makes this all work in canon for is the fact that, Starfleet, as a post scarcity utopia, where creating a new uniform is as easy as designing it, hitting print, and then emailing everybody the new uniform patters, and where humanity has dedicated themselves to personal betterment and scientific and creative pursuits. it totally makes sense that uniform decisions are being made by a team of people with different uniform philosophies who are constantly tinkering with new ideas and rolling them out on permanent or trail basis.
Dude, thank you. I have been trying to figure out the reason for the jarring way the uniforms changed in-universe for a long time now. A titanic ordeal, making sense of all this mess was, both for your research and Blackman’s tenure as costume designer.
@@derekanderson8456 I kinda hoped they’d drop some solid hints as to why the uniform has changed within a couple of years in some cases. Between the Motion Picture and The Wraith of Khan for instance and then between Seasons 2 and 3 of TNG, only to be quickly replaced by the time the events of DS9 take place.
I remember visiting a star trek exhibition in Edinburgh back in the 1990s and they had uniforms from all of the different Trek productions that existed a the time. Voyager was brand new and had just aired its first season at the time. Even then the Monster Maroon uniforms from he Kirk movies stood out in sheer quality and detail, with really high quality tailoring and tiny embellishments that the camera could never pick up. Each service pip on the cuff had the Starfleet emblem embossed into it, and the rank insignia and badges etc. were all crafted from plated metals. the level of detail really impressed. By comparison the TNG era uniforms looked cheap as crap, really clumsy stitching holding the braid around the collar edge, threads showing the joins between the black and department colour sections and the rank insignia and com badges were made of wood and spray painted gold.
It probably also helps to consider the times in the real world when each kind of uniform was released. They were also at least trying to look cool to any given fashion sense of the time, obviously with varying degrees of success. (Also, Admirals' uniforms always seem to be all over the place, presumably they can do what they want that way.)
I really enjoyed the walk-through-well done.. All the costume variations make a lot more sense now. I shared this with my Star Trek podcasting friends-I think they'll enjoy it, too.
This is the most surprising subscription I've made on TH-cam in a Long time. I've always noticed the costume changes, but never really gave it much thought. I had no idea seeing someone talk about it with such passion could be so interesting. Well done, good sir! 👏🏾👍🏾
In regards to the TNG/DS9 uniform change it seems like starship personnel used the TNG style while station personal used the newer style. If I recall this was fairly consistent up till the introduction of the First Contact uniforms. So that change wasn't a complete transition. Voyager used the new uniforms though so maybe uniforms were changed on newer ships as well?
The TNG era costumes and the DS9 era costumes: I believe Star Fleet were in 46000 ish star date were slowly phasing in a new uniform which took around 2 or 3 years to finally complete. Then of course 2 and a bit years after that phased in the TNG movie uniform part way through DS9 season 5.
Or Star Fleet were trying out a new uniform design and DS9 was one place where it got trialled out. Course the real world explanation was probably the producers of DS9 wanted to distance themselves from TNG with a brand new costume design. The in universe explanation as far as I am aware is never explained. in the DS9 episode where Sisko and Odo return to earth sometime in the 4th DS9 series Sisko changes to a TNG era uniform for no reason that I can think of especially when in ST Generations the crew were changing over to DS9/VOY uniforms.
@@daviniarobbins9298 I don't really count the Generations uniforms as being a part of continuity. They were going to design new uniforms for the movie but decided against it last minute and so ended up having to literally use the wardrobe from DS9. I'm not sure why they couldn't just reuse their TNG uniforms but that feels more like a real-world than in-universe thing. I've always attributed Sisko changing uniform to be because he was reassigned to Starfleet HQ. Which keeps with the idea that different places used different uniforms.
The strongest evidence for this would be the DS9 4th season two-parter, "Homefront" and "Paradise Lost." Captain Sisko was recalled to Earth and assigned to work with Admiral Layton. While on Earth, Sisko wore the TNG uniform, returning to the DS9 one at the end when he resumed his duties as station commander. Overall, a great video. Having re-watched "Tapestry" last night, it certainly was good timing running across this today. I have to say I love the Monster Maroons and they rank with the "First Contact"/latter DS9 uniforms as my favorites among Trek. I'm not a fan of the stripping of their elements approach to bridging the gap aesthetically, but from a production standpoint it makes sense. Given the time restraints, it's a lot easier to grab a Monster Maroon and strip it down than a season 1/2 TNG and modify it, as we saw with Admiral Janeway in Voyager. I know Rodenberry never wanted Star Fleet to be militaristic, but the use of rank and discipline does suggest some military approaches. I do like how the uniforms do fit the eras well. ENT era: Practicality and comfort for the first mission of its type. DIS (Seasons 1-2): A more military minded version for a time of war. Coming off the Romulan War and into tension and eventually war with the Klingons. TOS: Less military, more focus on individual ships (at least with the badges) for a fleet coming off a war footing and into a frontier mindset. A uniform that was more casual would work better with crews sent out to colonies and unexplored planets. The Klingons of this era seemed to try to compete with the Federation for colony worlds, further prompted to do so by the Organian Treaty. The Romulans slowly come out of isolation at this point, further spurred to do so by the attempted theft of a cloaking device. TMP: An attempt to unify the fleet again, perhaps sensing the "friendly competition" mindset was on the way out. The Klingons go back on a war footing, no longer willing to "play the game". The Romulans also resume a more militaristic mindset, though less antagonistic than the Klingons. TWoK to TUC: An effective Cold War era with minor skirmishes with Klingons that could either be described as "individual ships" or "rogue Captains", as the Klingons while appearing to be more aggressive never seemed, as a whole too eager to wage war, but never wanted the Federation to rest comfortably. The Genesis incident allowed them to posture, perhaps to save face, but they must have known how precarious their situation was, as evidenced by the eventual destruction of the Praxis moon. Likewise, the Romulans didn't want to actually engage the Federation, but still wanted the Federation to know a war was always a possibility. TNG: There is a treaty with the Klingons and the Romulans have again retreated to isolationism. The so-called "Cardassian War" is more one-sided than the Cardassians would like to admit. For the first time since TOS both the Federation and Star Fleet are feeling comfortable. Unlike TOS, the mindset is less frontier than scientific advancement. Star Fleet's main mission is no longer primarily to check on colonies and establish new territories, but rather to see the wonders of the universe, and, hey bring your families with you. Of course, as Q is wont to point out, there's danger out there, too and in a manner of 5 or so years, they poke three proverbial twin hornet nests of the Borg and the Dominion. FC/latter DS9: The Federation and Star Fleet try desperately to cling to their high ideals as threats besiege them again and again. The Romulans once again emerge. The Klingons are manipulated into a Civil War (partially by the Romulans) and later into war with the Federation due to the Dominion. The Borg make a major incursion resulting in Star Fleet's biggest loss since arguably the Klingon War precipitated by the Battle of the Binary Stars. Tensions with the Cardassians flair up again and peaceful attempts to handle it result in the creation of the Marquis. So once again the Federation veers more militaristic. Again, all wonderfully shown through the style of uniform we see on screen.
The TNG uniforms of the Era were More formal Class-As service uniforms while the DS9/ VOY uniforms were Class B working uniforms. I'm guessing they may have been introduced at the same time as the high collar Class-As, but Picard did not loosen up and allow their use until sometime between all good things and generations..
Deanna's hairband in "All Good Things ..." was the same one (or at least the same kind) that she wore in "Encounter at Farpoint," too. It's fun when The Powers That Be get callbacks/flashbacks/etc. "right" and the continuity is solid. :)
@@ObsessiveCostumingDude It is clear that in a strained season like Season 7 (people switching to DS9 to boister it up for S2, Generations starting production and Voyager just a year from it's pilot), they all were onboard to make something special of the finale. I do find it ironic makeup department somehow made Old Picard look older AND younger than nowadays Sir Patrick Steward.
@@Tuning3434 Age make-up is a lottery. What you said also holds true for the TOS crew in the episode "The Deadly Years," which, incidentally, was praised for its aging effects.
That style were for cadets and enlisted. The difference between the two was the color of the collar. I think the red collar was for cadets and black collar for enlisted, but all the characters in the Starfleet Academy game had black collars.
@@ObsessiveCostumingDude The jumpsuits were for both cadets and enlisted. You could tell them apart by the color of their collars. I don't remember which color was for cadet, if it was black then that wasn't a mistake.
@@KerbalSpaceCommand the red collars were for trainees, and the black collars were for enlisted. The jumpsuits themselves were otherwise the same. Robert Fletcher mentioned this in his costume design notes, and we see several officers-in-training (like Saavik in TWOK) who wore the wool two-piece with the red division shirt and corresponding jacket strap/band to indicate she was a cadet.
They wore the Wrath of Khan uniform during the Enterprise-C years too. CPT Rachel Garrett and LT Shooter McGavin were both wearing the older starfleet uniform during the ST:TNG episode "Yesterday's Enterprise."
@@ObsessiveCostumingDude Since someone mentioned to me the lack of undershirts in that episode, I can't help but think of an office full of sweaty people wearing suit jackets over bare skin. I'm sure they probably had A-shirts or something similar on the actual set, but it's a funny mental image.
Great work. I recently saw a documentary on TH-cam about the making of the first Star Trek movie with the crew and one of the scripts was a more militaristic story which had been changed over time, but the costume department had already worked on the military style costume change and that’s one of the reasons they said the costumes became more militaristic in style.
Agree with what most are saying. In real life it was the show runner and costume designers decision, but in storyline the Burgundy-Era Movie uniforms are the result of the increasing tension with the Klingon Empire, and to be a complete 180 from the Pajama Uniforms of TMP which were very unpopular with officers. The gradual changes make sense along with the peace/allegiance with the Klingon Empire and the Cardassian War ending to go more casual. Following Wolf 359 Starfleet got more militaristic which lead to the TNG movie grey uniforms with the division undershirt. These lasted until sometime after Picard was promoted to the Verity and gave the Enterprise-E to Worf where the uniforms were division colored again but still formal, and then eventually more casual by Star Trek: Picard era where the uniforms looked like the X-Men movie uniforms meets TNG colors. If you look at sports for example, even teams like the New York Yankees and Green Bay Packers who essentially have had the same uniforms, there are slight subtle variations in either fabric or accessories from lets say the 60s-present.
It’s obviously not canon, but in the 90’s there was a series of books that covered the TNG cast during their time at the academy. They have some illustrations of characters in transitional uniforms.
One thing to remember is that uniforms don't "evolve" like living organisms. They are certainly "adapted" under certain circumstances but uniforms are designed so you don't necessarily need "transitional" forms in-between styles. So here's my theory : The "Beige Pajamas" uniform was introduced around the time of ST:TMP. It was very practical but nobody liked the look so the "Monster Maroons" are introduced as a dressier option. But jumpsuits in various styles and colour schemes are also worn by cadets, enlisted personnel and other personnel that are usually in the background. Monster Maroons are vey popular (hence their longevity) but they start being "dressed" down with time because people need something in between a dress uniform and a working uniform. So they remove the belt, the cross strap, some of the bling etc. While this is going on, the original TNG spandex jumpsuit is created at some point and is worn, again, by people we don't see on screen. And at some point that spandex jumpsuits become the norm. The old maroon uniform (or what is left of it) is finally retired but is the basis for the new long wraparound dress tunic because Starfleet still needs a dress uniform. That evolution would also help explain the Departmental colours switch, red having been the "default" colour for so long it naturally became the "Command" colour. That sequence of events fits the historical tendency of newer, more practical uniforms being introduced and relegating the older style to being more of a dress uniform.
It might also work that the Beige Pajamas uniform was still, technically, a uniform for the rest, just that most people actually preferred the Monster Maroons, which is a more dress uniform design that had variants such as the vest as a part of it. I, also, kind of like the concept that the Andorians managed to shift the general temperature of Federation ships colder, which prompted the higher use of a warmer uniform. I have this idea of a lot of species groaning as the Vulcans and Andorians still have some lesser disagreements that pop up from their older issues with each other (though the Vulcans deny it) and you have the temp and humidity of ships standards shifting back and forth by whoever handles such regulations. By TNG, they tried to switch to a single uniform type...but with the various versions it shifted more into a ship/station option where the captain picks the one they want for their ship...which explains things like the USS Titan and Cerritos (and other ships) in Lower Decks using different uniforms.
On thing that I realize looking back is that there was A LOT of variations in the uniforms in ST:TMP. So it might have been a trial period for new uniforms (which is much easier to do on a wide scale when you have replicators) with a choice a different colours, patterns etc. to get the opinion of everyone.
@@jean-philippedecarie2024 TMP did have a bazillion uniform classes and variations. Maybe Starfleet was just trying out some things to see what its officers and crew preferred?
Great video! At least it makes sense from the Monster Maroon to the one-piece jumpsuit/skant. Kinda also explains how Starfleet went from handheld communicators to communicator badge (combadge), with the movie era chest badge having being updated with combadge like components.
The transition was subtle and somewhat vague, but I do think Blackman did the best he could and made the most of what he had. The TNG-era communicator was one of the finishing touches of an improbable, impractical uniform transition reconciled as best as possible. Thanks for watching. :)
I cannot imagine the effort it took to do the costuming every week for a TV series, especially where you making things up and can't just go buy readily-available clothing. I helped supply things for a movie once, and even the pace of that was insane when all I was doing was gathering up military surplus items.
Thanks for watching! I'm glad you enjoyed it. :) I wonder if when Blackman came on board, he had any idea he wasn't only shouldering the responsibility for the show itself, but the entire preceding era.
One thing Trek could learn from another show B5, JMS had a few demands on uniforms. Pockets for stuff that the pjs lacked and layered pieces suitable for different conditions exspecially later with crusade with an explorer crew. Arms came off and over coat/vest depending on temps.
Another very important point about Blackman's approach to the uniforms, taking existing uniform costumes and simply changing the bits and bobs on them is much cheaper than making whole new uniforms.
Making the most out of what you have while still being as creative as you can is just good production. :) TWOK had a comparatively tiny budget, and ST5 had a much larger budget than the preceding movies. It's all about doing your best and making the best use of what you have to work with. :)
Idk if I’m in the minority, but I really like the early spandex TNG uniforms aesthetically. Mostly from the rounded shoulders and the color stripe through them. I just like that style more than the plainer wool ones that replaced them.
Good catch! :) I'd actually thought about that one but didn't remember there being any crew members around when Riker and Pressman beamed aboard. Sure enough there were a couple dead "goldshirts" lying around in the background.
In the U.S. Navy, for third class petty officers and up, personnel with less than twelve years of service wear rate insignia on their service dress blues with red chevrons and rockers, whereas personnel with greater than twelve years of service and good conduct wear gold chevrons and rockers (those without good conduct are relegated to red). That may have informed the decision in Star Trek Generations to have red on the monster maroons' department-colored arm straps for junior personnel like Demora Sulu and Tuvok, and gold for senior personnel like Kirk, Scotty, Chekov, and Harriman. All of the examples you show are all ensigns or lieutenant junior grades, which would be junior personnel.
Interesting video, I like how these little conundrums get solved. I thought the blue Discovery uniforms were a great evolution from the blue Enterprise ones. Looking forward to seeing what SNW is going to do
would love to hear your thoughts, the behinds the scenes lore, and factoids upon the 29th Century uniforms as seen in Voyager. from Allan G. Royal's Captain Braxton 'Future's End' to Bruce McGill's Captain Braxton 'Relativity' more flushed out look, like why there seems to be such a shift in division colors to blue(command) green (almost hunter or forest green)(sci) and red(ops) if memory serves.
I think ops was a burnt orange, but yes I agree that that would be awesome to hear discussed. I've always wondered about the design concept and where the idea for the colours came from.
Thank you. I had been curious about this for literal decades. Before this I thought there was just a sudden transition between Picard getting stabbed and the TNG era. Subtlety like that was lost on me.
you missed a huge one: 2358 USS Pegasus crew wore the TNG uniforms as seen in the episode Pegasus…not too far to think that the photo and Picard’s flashback and the hallucination were using the uniform then
Good catch! :) I'd actually thought about the Pegasus but didn't remember there being any crew members around when Riker and Pressman beamed aboard. Sure enough there were a couple dead "goldshirts" lying around in the background.
Just wanted to say - that for me, at least, it’s terribly helpful to have all dates referenced relative to “Encounter at Far Point,” as you have done. It really helped me keep track of the (dis-)continuity! Also, terrific work overall, with just the right amount of attention to detail - thank you! (Pointing out goofs can be fun, but sometimes, imho, it’s lovely just to get on with it. Well done!)
That's a great video. I wish you'd spent more time looking at the various Dress Uniform and Admiral Uniform variations since they imply a stronger connection to the past style, the off-centre flap and the more stylised collars. And it makes sense that the day-to-day uniforms would evolve but the fancy uniforms for special occasions or senior officers change slower. Unfortunately there's a LOT of quirky admiral and dress uniform variants with no clear trends or patterns in them.
I do plan to discuss the TNG formal uniforms (and hopefully examine several screen-used costumes) in later videos. Maybe the other two admiral uniforms too? We'll see! Thanks for watching. :)
Don't underestimate the possibility of uniform variation running concurrently. A facet of RL uniforms is that they have variations, in many cases a particular variation or 'style' is coordinated to be worn on specific days or under specific operating conditions. In a naval context this variation can be different from ship to ship.
Great analysis. I love the TOS movie uniforms (well, not the Motion Picture uniforms). The TNG uniforms were also good - at least the one from season 3 onwards. Wasn't keen on the DS9 (and Voyager uniform) change to the polar-neck jumper/jump suit deigns, though.
Re twok style I heard Meyer liked/wanted the more military look and jackets The real world practical benefit was to cover/hide the growing waistlines of the aging tos crew, especially shatter and doohan😎
Picard's "Darmok" (introduced and worn frequently throughout season 5, often seen in season 6, and barely seen in season 7) was a cool uniform with some notable TWOK stylistic influence, especially with the pant legs. :)
alyways been intrigued by the red uniforms used in tos movies, and part of tng flashback episodes. so it means they have been used in starfleet for quite some time up to picard's academy days at least.also loved that all startfleet ships at that time had an lcars made out of just green and blue
Thank you for the analysis! I have always had an interest in doing a Lost Era cosplay, such as with the styles seen in Yesterday’s Enterprise or Wesley’s father.
Really interesting video! Based on the examples you present here, 2350 would seem to be a nice conjectural date for the shift to the jumpsuits. Maybe Starfleet went for a mid-century shift back towards exploration, etc. following the Klingon alliance initiatives after the Enterprise C was destroyed, and so looked back to the “glory days” of the TOS era - thus ushering in the “golden age” in the early TNG era where they flew around in cities in space!
The thing about the entire TNG era uniforms is that is was easy to distinguish rank and position at least for the officers. It was hard to tell the position for the enlisted.
@@ObsessiveCostumingDude Now do a video on why there are no toilets in Star Trek. We have seen plenty of scenes taking place in the brig, but no toilets in sight. Has Lower Decks answered this question given that it's a meta kind of a show? It better because the next season is its last.
Great video and awesome topic to cover. I love the lost era. I plan on getting the novel series of the same title. Did you know that in the episode of tng when deanna went into her mother's mind to help her and met her dad Ian troi was her mother's memory? But also in case you missed it earlier in that same tng episode, Deanna outside of her mothers mind and In her own quarters was opening a case of old things of her family and amongst the items was a framed picture of her father. He looked in the picture just like he did in Deanna's mothers mind/memory.
I'm glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching! :) I have "The Lost Era" novels too but haven't read them yet. They're on my (very) long reading list, though ... (And yes, I did mention Ian Troi's uniform from "Dark Page.")
I think there might even be some room for customization in this era. We've only seen a few transitory uniforms, there could be variants with or without belts, with collars, less turtlenecky ones. I kind of hope we will see some in the future of Trek, providing they still remain faithful to the original design.
also worth considering the posture of Starfleet (or the Federation) - if we roll a bit into the future we can see that when the situation is that the Starfleet is in “war” mode, the uniforms thicken and gets more militaristic while when its in peace mode (as in all TNG episodes) the uniform is more light, less heavy. now this changes the original series a bit because… well… we still had the Klingon vs Starfleet situation, but Kirk and the Enterprise was more or less still on adventures thus less involved in actual war. whereelse the events of the movies are exactly when the situation is hot/getting hot (up until the Enterprise C bravely sacrificing itself against the Romulans) might not be the full story, but i would think the political and diplomatic situation of the federation and starfleet is relevant in the change. (hehe… albeit perhaps not intentional - but after all we are talking about a scifi series, so yeah… :) )
This is a great observation/suggestion. I was thinking about this as well as I watched this wonderful video. The shift in DS9 era to the black and grey with division color shirts fits here. As other videos have indicated, Starfleet shifted in the TNG "golden age" toward a seeming utopia with exploration (and only occasional conflicts). We see the same dynamics at play with ship designs prior to and after TNG (notably with the Borg and Dominion War). Now, let's consider the TOS era and TMP. The TOS era was largely exploration with some cold war elements (notably with the Klingons and later with the Romulans). With especially the Organian Peace Treaty, we see shift from the original uniforms (which shifted slightly from the two pilots and the non-Enterprise crew in "Charlie X") to the slim, tightfitting and two color (rather than three color) uniforms (the color shift takes us back to the color scheme of the pilots I think, albeit updated). What had happened a few years before the uniform change (remember this is suppose to be only about two years after the original five-year mission) was the Organian Peace Treaty. There was tension, but no open conflict between the Federation and the Empire. Even the Starfleet officer commenting on the Klingon conflict with V'Ger asked, "Who are they fighting?" We could take that as not only ignorance of a possible threat but also as an indication that the Klingons typical weren't engaged in major military encounters. The era was one of relative peace and stability in the region. And we have the almost jump suit design in uniforms. Jump ahead about a decade and we have TWK uniforms, the more militaristic ones. The political situation had also changed, as indicated in the scenario test and Kirk's comment to Saavik. And the roaming Klingon ship in TSS (and the Grissom's immediate "shields up" shock when the Klingons decloaked) (and the same situation in TFF with a semi-independent Klingon ship eager for glory), all suggest that tensions had risen, stability had weakened, and conflicts (thought not outright war) had become more commonplace. Even the continued yet failed "planet of galactic peace" effort seemed like a poor attempt to ease the new cold war political situation so it did not spark a hot war. So, all of this suggests that we have an onscreen precedent (in universe) to support your suggestion about the political shifts going on with the TNG (or really the post-Enterprise C destruction) move back to a jumpsuit type of uniform (an option that seemed to last for about ten years and then replaced for the more comfortable variant, which last for several more years before DS9/VOY uniforms were introduced (which also seem a bit more "jumpsuit"-ish) and only replaced with the more militaristic DS9 (TNG era films post-Generations) uniforms that came into play with the rising threat from the Dominion, Cardassians, and thus once again the unstable cold-to-hot war tensions across the quadrant. (Now what we do with ENT and DIS is another matter, so also Lower Decks and Picard; but those are other topics to pursue lol.)
Also: there's a real-life continuity with the Enlisted monster maroons and the Motion Picture uniforms, in that they were simply some of the jumpsuits used in that film dyed burgundy and with an added belt and other features. Perhaps, in-universe; the adoption of the jumpsuits in the TNG era was an adaption of these, and the 'monster maroon' officer design was just kept for the TNG dress uniforms (as I conjectured below).
I do find it fascinating how despite being very different films, so much stuff from TMP was recycled and/or repurposed into the subsequent movies. It's very impressive how economical Fletcher & co. were, while creating entirely different visual aesthetics.
@@ObsessiveCostumingDudemy own in-universe headcanon fan theory is that the monster maroons weren't 'abolished' as such when the TNG jumpsuits came in-they were just redesigned (presumably to ape civilian fashions as regards formalwear at the time) and became the TNG dress uniforms. Which kiiiiiind of makes sense of you look at the final iteration (there's several) of the TNG dress uniforms, which is seen in DS9's 'You Are Cordially Invited'-a belt is added, that and some other small changes make them look *very* like the monster maroons in design.
I'm not sure why Picard has command white as an ensign in those episodes. He should have a department color grey, or mustard. If not that then red for cadet officer, or jr command track officer. Like Savak in WoK. However Savak did not have a grey science department uniform in Search for Spock. Picard also has a mismatch coat. A mustard inner lining instead of white to match his strap, and undershirt. Could be an error, or what was available. Later on you see other officers in white. I assume the woman wearing command white behind Kelsey Grammer is his XO. Maybe an in universe explanation is the XO roll was detached from being a department head. Freeing them up to go wear needed instead of run a department. The undershirt changed due to the collar I'm sure. I remember reading an article about the making of the uniforms for later films. The turtle necks puffy ribbed style was made with a machine that injected air into the collar. They were down to one needle by the end. I think the T shirt underneath was a quick fix for running out of usable turtleneck undershirts.
I went back and looked up "the sound of her voice" because I remember the captain was found wearing the remains of an early TNG Uniform. The timeline matches up to being around season 2 TNG when her ship left on an 8 year mission. I'd been hoping it was further back than that go at least provide a few years buffer.
Don't forget though that the color variation gold to red was flipped around for the next generation series from the original series. If you're wearing a gold uniform in the next generation series it's like being a red shirt in the original.
![[#2024MAMA] G-DRAGON - 무제(Untitled, 2014)+POWER+HOME SWEET HOME+뱅뱅뱅+FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ox29z5Nf1Uk/mqdefault.jpg)
Help me produce more sewing and costuming resources: ko-fi.com/obsessivecostumingdude
My all time favourite uniform are the movie error TNG has always looked like PJ
To anyone in the Navy, the most realistic thing about Star Trek is the fact that the uniforms change every week, often without notice.
Dad says that if ST really wants to parallel the Navy they need a uniform material which feels like it is going to burst in to flame in the next instant while you are in the boiler rooms.
@@alonespirit9923 It would help. I only wore the blueberries for about six months, due to broken service. But it seems to me that we had a good thing with dungarees... inexpensive, comfortable, durable, and reasonably fire-resistant. Who would ever want a working uniform like that?
When did the Pajama style uniforms phase out to the red jacket uniforms?.
Fletchers rank system was like aliens invented it.
U.S.S.Bozeman was in 2278, " The Wrath of Khan" took place in 2285. Bozeman's Captain should have inquired " if you are the Enterprise, then where is James T.Kirk?."
A nice bit of fan theory would be that the TNG-era uniforms were issued as part of the 200th Frontier Day celebration in 2351. That would have warranted such a significant and radical design change.
Could also explain why the went back to the traditional devision colours as a tribute, although they switched out Gold and Red.
@shinyagumon7015 the US Army has had branch colors since it was established. The branch colors have changed through time.
Given that there was a nearly 100 year gap in the Starfleet uniform style, it's not unusual for the color swap to happen.
A DS9 episode calls out this color change when the Defiant gets thrown back in time to the TOS era.
@@gobblox38 No I get the color swap actually, like during the movie era Gold/yellow was already the operations engineering color and red just became associated with captaincy in general through the Maroons
I agree...2351...tng uniforms introduced
It's interesting how the first two just fought against each other while the 3rd guy did everything he could to bridge the gap. he could have just ignored everything they put out and did his own thing but he kept all of those uncomfortable uniforms and put Picard/Jeordi back in them every time there was a flashback episode. Continuity that was unnecessary at the time but much appreciated now that the show is being re-watched and dissected indefinitely.
Yes, Blackman managed to walk a tightrope while reconciling the work of others and making his own creative contributions. :)
Scotty wore the movie-era uniform because he was no longer on active duty. They made it clear he had retired. It would be like someone retiring from the Army in 1980; they can still wear the old uniform, but since they're not active duty any more, there's no real incentive for them to upgrade (and it might even make things more confusing, as people would think he was still on active duty).
I'm not familiar with current military uniform regulations, but that is interesting and makes sense.
Having been in the Navy myself, since then I always compartmentalized them as the difference between a dress uniform and a working utility uniform. We seen in TWOK that the bridge staff and command officers are in the red jackets but the actual worker bees are in (a different cut and color but basically similar) jumpers and leggings as we had in TOS and TNG.
Apparently those quilted turtlenecks were pretty expensive to sew and fit, so on "Yesterday's Enterprise", when they not only needed modified uniforms for the alt-timeline TNG crew but also for another ship crew from an unseen era, the only thing they could do for the latter was pull out the movie uniforms and remove pieces, to show Starfleet moving back to a simpler style but also to stretch the budget. A weird idea in the episode is that the old movie badge is now a communicator but only the captain wears it - the lieutenant wears it when he takes over after the captain dies. The jackets looked awkward with nothing under them so colored t-shirts were the subsequent low-budget compromise - at least they matched the division color of the jacket straps. For Kelsey Grammar and two extras at the end of a bottle show they were able to pull together three complete movie uniforms with quilted turtlenecks. Scotty's vest has a leather patch above the right breast where his Captain rank pin is meant to go but he doesn't bother - also Scotty's division color remained gold after his promotion to Captain of Engineering, but beginning with Star Trek IV it was decided James Doohan looked better in the white shirt when only a vest is worn over it. It goes back to gold when he wears a jacket. There is a British TV commerical and some photos where he can be seen in a vest over the gold shirt and it's kind of icky.
It would have looked much better had they taped some thin black trim around the neck of the jackets for that episode. Would have been a subtle change, but more flattering in appearance, and a nice precursor to the black shoulder yoke of the TNG uniforms.
I remember that commercial. I could never figure out what Kirk said after getting the umbrella and then I found out he was using British slang. That explained it!
It is also possible that different uniform types existed simultaneously. When I was in the Air Force, we had several uniform changes in which after releasing a new uniform, the legacy uniform was valid for several years before it would be completely phased out.
True, and we did see two uniform styles overlap with seasons 6-7 of TNG and seasons 1-2 of DS9. (Also GENERATIONS, but let's not get into that ...)
I always saw it as different types of uniforms. The movie uniforms to me were more like dress or mess uniforms and what we see in TNG are much like the basic duty uniform (BDU) I was army so in my mindset, the TOS uniforms were like the solid olive BDU, we saw a departure with the first movie uniform then they were wearing what I always regarded as more of a dress uniform type for normal duty. As an MP, some posts would tell us dress or class b uniforms were the standard. TNG, to me is when I would see woodland become the norm for BDU, just like the TNG uniform. You still see admirals in the movie maroons from time to time. Also the difference between DS9 vs TNG is the difference between woodland and desert camp. They are similar, just not the same. Anyway, that's my 2 cents. I may be wrong.
Did they make you buy the uniforms?
@BillLaBrie Hell yeah, you better believe they did! 😑
It makes me realise that every now and again Star Trek needs a 79 year "lost era" to allow a new series to begin with a fresh look and feel.
Jup, and in the style of TNG/DS9/VOY - many consider this stile as old and boring, but i consider this stile as realistic, i can imagine a cleaning crew on the bridge of Voyager or DS9 or the Enterprise D but i can hardly imagine a cleaning crew on the fancy glancy outlandish looking bridges of the new Star Trek Movies or Discovery and Strange New World Bridges.
Star Trek: The Lost Generation
I would rather they start a series about the crew that receives the Enterprise after the STNG crew. The series needs to return to Star Trek's golden age of positive futurism.
@@NimrodNo22 old and boring? the intrepid has the interior of a limo
I said this recently on the Star Trek reddit about the show needing a new era a la TNG and got flamed lmao. Reddit is such a cesspool. But I think that Trek will start to heal from its recent wounds when they put someone in charge that does this. Set it 100 years after the TNG era and it’ll feel fresh
When there were uniform changes when I was in the military, it was phased in. Active duty got new uniforms first the reserves/ national guard. I didn't see DCU's until I was at MOB site and ACU's I think in country. The uniform changes from movie era to tng could have been done the same way; as needed until everybody was uniform.
I think real life militaries have more of a need for a phase out of old uniforms than starfleet would. There's no reason to keep around old uniforms when starfleet command can send replicator schematics for the new ones to every starship where they'd be replicated at little cost.
God I fucking hate ACU, it doesn't blend in with goddamn anything. There is statistical evidence that ACU has gotten soldiers killed. Why we don't use Flecktarn is beyond me.
Yeah plus even if they were being phased in at the start of TNG I could see Starfleet making sure the flagship crew recievez the newest model quickly mainly for the propaganda usage
@@ryane3703 One thing to keep in mind with phasing in and out that would still apply to the Trek timeline is uniform trials. When a new uniform is being considered, it will be issued to a ship or station, for feedback on the wear and tear. So, at any given time even today, there may be the occasional ship who's crew looks different than everyone else. Sometimes they don't approve that uniform, and the ship will go back to the old style, otherwise, they will be slowly rolled out, after minor changes made from feedback to the users.
@@devenscience8894 that makes sense, and we could consider DS9 one such uniform trail before it got rolled out across starfleet as it was by the time voyager launched. This was it seems shortlived and they wanted something less bright to wear during a time of war hence the suddend and quick roll out of the TNG movie uniform.
A couple of things you might want to take into consideration, the costumes used for the first four movies, were used over and over again, which means by the time TNG came into production, some of them were already nearly 9 years old and seen alot of use. Plus with all the costumes they would need for a new show, and a 5th film already greenlit they would have to come up with their own stock. The idea of distancing in terms of design is a plausible theory but again just a theory. As to exactly when the uniform changeover took place it's pretty well nailed down. The Movie Era ends in 2295 with the launch of the Enterprise -B and TNG begins in 2263, granted that's a 68 year gap, however only 3 flashback sequences I know of show TNG era uniforms, and the oldest is set about 2352, this combined with the recording of Jack Crusher talking to Wesley being about 15 years old at the time, given Wesley's age, it was recorded somewhere around 2350, which means the movie era uniforms had a run of around 70 years with gradual changes...........
I did mention all these examples in the video and corresponding blog post ...
"used for the first four movies"
Poor Motion picture
The Miranda/Reliant is still in service, the Constellations are still in service, the Excelsiors are still in service and there was a Constitution in service at Wolf 359. The ships serve for a long time, so the ship type has nothing to do with any of it.
all were in service in the Dominion war, used as cannon fodder but still heavily used
Regular one had genesis inside a moon why did it not blow up ?
Reliant was blown up by the Enterprise, and then whatever was left was obliterated by the genesis device, so I doubt the Reliant itself was still in service in TNG lol.
The Miranda class as a whole on the other hand is the forever-ship, that fought alongside the Enterprise J, and if it was still around during the Disco 32nd century I wouldn't be surprised.
@@kargaroc386 dafuq??
Very thorough video, my head cannon for the abrupt uniform change was the signing of the second Khitomer Accord which likely happened in the early 2350s and began the transition of Starfleet from military defense back to exploratory.
I agree that the early 2350s seems like the major turning point for the uniform transition, perhaps for the reasons you mentioned.
Thanks for watching. :)
@@ObsessiveCostumingDude I can see the kitomer accords leading to the uniform change fitting into the lore. Starfleet changing its uniforms to mark a transition from the militaristic/Cold War attitude to a more optimistic one. Focused on peace and exploration.
The Federation and Klingons already had a Cold War going in the TOS era, hence the neutral zone. So by Star Trek II, the conflict intensified to the point that Starfleet was mostly seen as a branch of the military rather than a purely scientific and explorational pursuit?
The Monster Maroons have always been my favorites.
They are fantastic and among my favorite uniforms too. :)
They seem a bit too militaristic to me. Reminds me a bit of a group that takes orders or oppresses the hero, rather than the hero themselves.
@@EGarrett01 Why does the hero have to be anti-authoritarian? Why can't he just be a military man? Your values are all messed up after years of indoctrination
Well, one thing to note, is that Scotty was retired. So he wouldn't have been bound by current uniform regulations. Very interesting video!
Good point, and thanks for watching. :)
Retired? He was dead technically lol
@@cchavezjr7 could be a useful loophole for him
@@rex290 definitely haha
The costume department likely could not find a TNG uniform to fit around Scotty's neck.
Uniforms: one of those things everyone knows and sees, yet it doesn't make sense until someone like you puts it altogether. Great research. I personally think one of the reasons for such a dynamic with in styles had to do with the physical shapes of the actors themselves. TOS were fine actors and in shape during their heyday. Fast forward 20-30 years, and you may have noticed they were bigger stars, bigger around the waist. With the exception of Tilly and a handful of others, overweight doesn't seem to be part of StarFleet, even for older and retired officers.
I'm not sure if you addressed this, I only watched half the video
One other thing that might come into play, in universe, is that different ships might use different uniforms.
While I'm still unsure about the series, Lower Decks shows different uniforms on different ships in the same era. I think they've showed the Voyager, TNG, TNG Movie, and DS9 uniforms from different ships. So the uniforms might be a choice of the captain for the ship there as an additional identifier for the people from a specific ship or station.
@@AzraelThanatos That was exactly what they were trying to say happened in STD, that only the crews of the 12 Constitution class starships wore the pre TOS and TOS era uniform and the rest of the Fleet wore the uniforms as seen on Discovery. Then again, it’s been a long standing “fact” that the 12 Connie class crew uniforms had an unique, individual patch, but as of a few years ago, evidence was found that the intent was for all of the Fleet to wear the arrowhead delta patch as seen on TOS with the Enterprise, and the others were errors.
I always preferred the Naval style movie uniforms. They seemed more fitting of a ship crew (pun not intended). Like they were honoring a long tradition among sailors.
Great video! I’ve written out the starfleet uniform timeline many a time before but it’s great to see someone else do a deep dive on this topic. The twok uniform is the best looking, IMO, and longest serving.
I've seen similar breakdowns before too, but I figured I'd give it a go, and in context of what the costume designers may have been thinking at the time.
And I agree, when done well, the TWOK-era uniforms look fabulous. :)
I LOVE THOSE UNIFORMS! They’re so Stylish and have that “wow” factor
Jack Crusher seems to be the best way to pin down a date. Was wearing movie style when making a recording for baby Wesley and TNG style at death.
I agree that being an actual recording rather than something inside the characters' heads does make for harder evidence.
The red TOS movie uniforms are by far my favorite.
They were great, and lots of peoples' favorites. :)
The movie era from Star Trek 2- 6 is my favorite it always looked very realistic to me.
Those were wonderful uniforms, and among my favorites in the franchise. :)
To really match the Navy they need 8 active uniforms: shore utility, ship board utility, dress blue, dress white, office khaki, summer dress white, and PT. Then change one every two years.
I read somewhere that the changes in Starfleet uniforms were ment to help inform time travelers what era they have arrived at.
Star Trek time travellers so common that they needed a whole protocol for that exact situation?
@@Stettafire
I think there was a Star Trek Voyager episode that Delta with that.
Haha, that's a good plan!
I think just checking a calender or asking a computer what the date is would be easier than remembering 30 variations of uniforms.
@@berlinkozyreva
Yup, agreed
When I first saw the Wrath of Khan in '82 I loved the new Monster Maroon uniforms at first sight. I thought that jacket was a throwback to the blue-gray landing party field jackets that were used by the Enterprise crew in "The Cage"/"The Menagerie". So in my mind, I saw continuity between the field jackets of the pilot ep and TWOK uniforms.
Obsessive Costuming Dude? I thought that was me! (Cool video)
I think you nailed it!.. You delivered the content perfectly.. you're cadence and tone was that of seasoned broadcaster... meaning you kept your audience enthralled.. ;) The information was above reproach and VERY informative! Thank you!
Thank you for all the kind words. I'm glad you enjoyed the video. :)
Thank you for watching!
I'm so glad to finally see a video about this uniforms changes. Been waiting for that for a while.
Thanks for watching. I'm glad you enjoyed the video. :)
I'll be going more into the TWOK-era uniforms and their evolution in my upcoming costume analyses, so keep an eye out for those on my STCG blog:
www.startrekcostumeguide.com/
@@ObsessiveCostumingDude looking forward to it
the thing that makes this all work in canon for is the fact that, Starfleet, as a post scarcity utopia, where creating a new uniform is as easy as designing it, hitting print, and then emailing everybody the new uniform patters, and where humanity has dedicated themselves to personal betterment and scientific and creative pursuits. it totally makes sense that uniform decisions are being made by a team of people with different uniform philosophies who are constantly tinkering with new ideas and rolling them out on permanent or trail basis.
I recall the old cartoon had it that the uniforms were, essentially, pressed algae paste.
Dude, thank you. I have been trying to figure out the reason for the jarring way the uniforms changed in-universe for a long time now. A titanic ordeal, making sense of all this mess was, both for your research and Blackman’s tenure as costume designer.
Huh, thought everyone knew of the 'Jack Crusher' Era uniform. Like in episode Yesterday's Enterprise.
@@derekanderson8456 I kinda hoped they’d drop some solid hints as to why the uniform has changed within a couple of years in some cases. Between the Motion Picture and The Wraith of Khan for instance and then between Seasons 2 and 3 of TNG, only to be quickly replaced by the time the events of DS9 take place.
You're welcome! I'm glad you enjoyed the video and found it informative. :)
Thanks for watching.
You have done a great job. Thank you for all the work you have put into this video.
Thanks for watching! I'm glad you enjoyed it. :)
I remember visiting a star trek exhibition in Edinburgh back in the 1990s and they had uniforms from all of the different Trek productions that existed a the time. Voyager was brand new and had just aired its first season at the time. Even then the Monster Maroon uniforms from he Kirk movies stood out in sheer quality and detail, with really high quality tailoring and tiny embellishments that the camera could never pick up.
Each service pip on the cuff had the Starfleet emblem embossed into it, and the rank insignia and badges etc. were all crafted from plated metals. the level of detail really impressed.
By comparison the TNG era uniforms looked cheap as crap, really clumsy stitching holding the braid around the collar edge, threads showing the joins between the black and department colour sections and the rank insignia and com badges were made of wood and spray painted gold.
It probably also helps to consider the times in the real world when each kind of uniform was released. They were also at least trying to look cool to any given fashion sense of the time, obviously with varying degrees of success. (Also, Admirals' uniforms always seem to be all over the place, presumably they can do what they want that way.)
Great look at this period of Trek history. Love all the BTS stuff too!
I'm glad you enjoyed the video. :) Thanks for watching!
I really enjoyed the walk-through-well done.. All the costume variations make a lot more sense now. I shared this with my Star Trek podcasting friends-I think they'll enjoy it, too.
I'm glad you enjoyed it, and thanks for sharing. :)
This is the most surprising subscription I've made on TH-cam in a Long time. I've always noticed the costume changes, but never really gave it much thought. I had no idea seeing someone talk about it with such passion could be so interesting. Well done, good sir! 👏🏾👍🏾
Thank you for the kind words, and for watching! I'm glad you enjoyed it. :)
Hey this channel will explode in a good way one day. Just letting you know.
Thanks for the heads-up. Here's to hoping! :)
Blackman did some amazing work. Much respect.
I agree and adore his work on the franchise, especially DS9. :)
In regards to the TNG/DS9 uniform change it seems like starship personnel used the TNG style while station personal used the newer style. If I recall this was fairly consistent up till the introduction of the First Contact uniforms. So that change wasn't a complete transition. Voyager used the new uniforms though so maybe uniforms were changed on newer ships as well?
The TNG era costumes and the DS9 era costumes: I believe Star Fleet were in 46000 ish star date were slowly phasing in a new uniform which took around 2 or 3 years to finally complete. Then of course 2 and a bit years after that phased in the TNG movie uniform part way through DS9 season 5.
Or Star Fleet were trying out a new uniform design and DS9 was one place where it got trialled out.
Course the real world explanation was probably the producers of DS9 wanted to distance themselves from TNG with a brand new costume design. The in universe explanation as far as I am aware is never explained. in the DS9 episode where Sisko and Odo return to earth sometime in the 4th DS9 series Sisko changes to a TNG era uniform for no reason that I can think of especially when in ST Generations the crew were changing over to DS9/VOY uniforms.
@@daviniarobbins9298 I don't really count the Generations uniforms as being a part of continuity. They were going to design new uniforms for the movie but decided against it last minute and so ended up having to literally use the wardrobe from DS9. I'm not sure why they couldn't just reuse their TNG uniforms but that feels more like a real-world than in-universe thing.
I've always attributed Sisko changing uniform to be because he was reassigned to Starfleet HQ. Which keeps with the idea that different places used different uniforms.
The strongest evidence for this would be the DS9 4th season two-parter, "Homefront" and "Paradise Lost." Captain Sisko was recalled to Earth and assigned to work with Admiral Layton. While on Earth, Sisko wore the TNG uniform, returning to the DS9 one at the end when he resumed his duties as station commander.
Overall, a great video. Having re-watched "Tapestry" last night, it certainly was good timing running across this today.
I have to say I love the Monster Maroons and they rank with the "First Contact"/latter DS9 uniforms as my favorites among Trek. I'm not a fan of the stripping of their elements approach to bridging the gap aesthetically, but from a production standpoint it makes sense. Given the time restraints, it's a lot easier to grab a Monster Maroon and strip it down than a season 1/2 TNG and modify it, as we saw with Admiral Janeway in Voyager.
I know Rodenberry never wanted Star Fleet to be militaristic, but the use of rank and discipline does suggest some military approaches.
I do like how the uniforms do fit the eras well.
ENT era: Practicality and comfort for the first mission of its type.
DIS (Seasons 1-2): A more military minded version for a time of war. Coming off the Romulan War and into tension and eventually war with the Klingons.
TOS: Less military, more focus on individual ships (at least with the badges) for a fleet coming off a war footing and into a frontier mindset. A uniform that was more casual would work better with crews sent out to colonies and unexplored planets. The Klingons of this era seemed to try to compete with the Federation for colony worlds, further prompted to do so by the Organian Treaty. The Romulans slowly come out of isolation at this point, further spurred to do so by the attempted theft of a cloaking device.
TMP: An attempt to unify the fleet again, perhaps sensing the "friendly competition" mindset was on the way out. The Klingons go back on a war footing, no longer willing to "play the game". The Romulans also resume a more militaristic mindset, though less antagonistic than the Klingons.
TWoK to TUC: An effective Cold War era with minor skirmishes with Klingons that could either be described as "individual ships" or "rogue Captains", as the Klingons while appearing to be more aggressive never seemed, as a whole too eager to wage war, but never wanted the Federation to rest comfortably. The Genesis incident allowed them to posture, perhaps to save face, but they must have known how precarious their situation was, as evidenced by the eventual destruction of the Praxis moon. Likewise, the Romulans didn't want to actually engage the Federation, but still wanted the Federation to know a war was always a possibility.
TNG: There is a treaty with the Klingons and the Romulans have again retreated to isolationism. The so-called "Cardassian War" is more one-sided than the Cardassians would like to admit.
For the first time since TOS both the Federation and Star Fleet are feeling comfortable. Unlike TOS, the mindset is less frontier than scientific advancement. Star Fleet's main mission is no longer primarily to check on colonies and establish new territories, but rather to see the wonders of the universe, and, hey bring your families with you.
Of course, as Q is wont to point out, there's danger out there, too and in a manner of 5 or so years, they poke three proverbial twin hornet nests of the Borg and the Dominion.
FC/latter DS9: The Federation and Star Fleet try desperately to cling to their high ideals as threats besiege them again and again. The Romulans once again emerge. The Klingons are manipulated into a Civil War (partially by the Romulans) and later into war with the Federation due to the Dominion.
The Borg make a major incursion resulting in Star Fleet's biggest loss since arguably the Klingon War precipitated by the Battle of the Binary Stars. Tensions with the Cardassians flair up again and peaceful attempts to handle it result in the creation of the Marquis.
So once again the Federation veers more militaristic.
Again, all wonderfully shown through the style of uniform we see on screen.
The TNG uniforms of the Era were More formal Class-As service uniforms while the DS9/ VOY uniforms were Class B working uniforms. I'm guessing they may have been introduced at the same time as the high collar Class-As, but Picard did not loosen up and allow their use until sometime between all good things and generations..
I like the subtle difference in VISOR model in the logs in "Identity Crisis"
Deanna's hairband in "All Good Things ..." was the same one (or at least the same kind) that she wore in "Encounter at Farpoint," too.
It's fun when The Powers That Be get callbacks/flashbacks/etc. "right" and the continuity is solid. :)
@@ObsessiveCostumingDude It is clear that in a strained season like Season 7 (people switching to DS9 to boister it up for S2, Generations starting production and Voyager just a year from it's pilot), they all were onboard to make something special of the finale.
I do find it ironic makeup department somehow made Old Picard look older AND younger than nowadays Sir Patrick Steward.
@@Tuning3434 Age make-up is a lottery. What you said also holds true for the TOS crew in the episode "The Deadly Years," which, incidentally, was praised for its aging effects.
What's leading you to classify young Picard as wearing an "enlisted uniform"? I've always understood the tan topped ones as being cadet uniforms.
That style were for cadets and enlisted. The difference between the two was the color of the collar. I think the red collar was for cadets and black collar for enlisted, but all the characters in the Starfleet Academy game had black collars.
The spandex jumpsuits were for enlisted crew, whereas the wool jackets + trousers were for commissioned officers.
@@ObsessiveCostumingDude The jumpsuits were for both cadets and enlisted. You could tell them apart by the color of their collars. I don't remember which color was for cadet, if it was black then that wasn't a mistake.
@@KerbalSpaceCommand the red collars were for trainees, and the black collars were for enlisted. The jumpsuits themselves were otherwise the same.
Robert Fletcher mentioned this in his costume design notes, and we see several officers-in-training (like Saavik in TWOK) who wore the wool two-piece with the red division shirt and corresponding jacket strap/band to indicate she was a cadet.
@@KerbalSpaceCommand exactly my thinking, he’s at the academy and it was shown in the movies that the cadets wore that uniform
They wore the Wrath of Khan uniform during the Enterprise-C years too. CPT Rachel Garrett and LT Shooter McGavin were both wearing the older starfleet uniform during the ST:TNG episode "Yesterday's Enterprise."
I did mention "Yesterday's Enterprise" in the video and the corresponding blog post.
@@ObsessiveCostumingDude Since someone mentioned to me the lack of undershirts in that episode, I can't help but think of an office full of sweaty people wearing suit jackets over bare skin. I'm sure they probably had A-shirts or something similar on the actual set, but it's a funny mental image.
Great video, I miss old Trek.
Thanks, and me too. :)
But at least we have DVD and Blu-ray!
Alex your research is unparalleled!
Excellent video! I've always wanted to be able to figure out the uniform changes over the in-show years.
Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed it! :)
Great work. I recently saw a documentary on TH-cam about the making of the first Star Trek movie with the crew and one of the scripts was a more militaristic story which had been changed over time, but the costume department had already worked on the military style costume change and that’s one of the reasons they said the costumes became more militaristic in style.
The Monster Maroon uniforms are the best uniforms from Star Trek.
Agree with what most are saying. In real life it was the show runner and costume designers decision, but in storyline the Burgundy-Era Movie uniforms are the result of the increasing tension with the Klingon Empire, and to be a complete 180 from the Pajama Uniforms of TMP which were very unpopular with officers.
The gradual changes make sense along with the peace/allegiance with the Klingon Empire and the Cardassian War ending to go more casual.
Following Wolf 359 Starfleet got more militaristic which lead to the TNG movie grey uniforms with the division undershirt. These lasted until sometime after Picard was promoted to the Verity and gave the Enterprise-E to Worf where the uniforms were division colored again but still formal, and then eventually more casual by Star Trek: Picard era where the uniforms looked like the X-Men movie uniforms meets TNG colors.
If you look at sports for example, even teams like the New York Yankees and Green Bay Packers who essentially have had the same uniforms, there are slight subtle variations in either fabric or accessories from lets say the 60s-present.
It’s obviously not canon, but in the 90’s there was a series of books that covered the TNG cast during their time at the academy. They have some illustrations of characters in transitional uniforms.
Did you like them?
For my geeky ST- and details-obsessed brain this video is absolutely amazing ❤
I'm glad you enjoyed it! :)
The movie uniforms are just so good!
I agree. Robert Fletcher did amazing work on the first four movies.
I thought the movie uniforms, first movie excepted, were excellent.
One thing to remember is that uniforms don't "evolve" like living organisms. They are certainly "adapted" under certain circumstances but uniforms are designed so you don't necessarily need "transitional" forms in-between styles.
So here's my theory :
The "Beige Pajamas" uniform was introduced around the time of ST:TMP. It was very practical but nobody liked the look so the "Monster Maroons" are introduced as a dressier option. But jumpsuits in various styles and colour schemes are also worn by cadets, enlisted personnel and other personnel that are usually in the background.
Monster Maroons are vey popular (hence their longevity) but they start being "dressed" down with time because people need something in between a dress uniform and a working uniform. So they remove the belt, the cross strap, some of the bling etc. While this is going on, the original TNG spandex jumpsuit is created at some point and is worn, again, by people we don't see on screen.
And at some point that spandex jumpsuits become the norm. The old maroon uniform (or what is left of it) is finally retired but is the basis for the new long wraparound dress tunic because Starfleet still needs a dress uniform. That evolution would also help explain the Departmental colours switch, red having been the "default" colour for so long it naturally became the "Command" colour.
That sequence of events fits the historical tendency of newer, more practical uniforms being introduced and relegating the older style to being more of a dress uniform.
It might also work that the Beige Pajamas uniform was still, technically, a uniform for the rest, just that most people actually preferred the Monster Maroons, which is a more dress uniform design that had variants such as the vest as a part of it. I, also, kind of like the concept that the Andorians managed to shift the general temperature of Federation ships colder, which prompted the higher use of a warmer uniform.
I have this idea of a lot of species groaning as the Vulcans and Andorians still have some lesser disagreements that pop up from their older issues with each other (though the Vulcans deny it) and you have the temp and humidity of ships standards shifting back and forth by whoever handles such regulations.
By TNG, they tried to switch to a single uniform type...but with the various versions it shifted more into a ship/station option where the captain picks the one they want for their ship...which explains things like the USS Titan and Cerritos (and other ships) in Lower Decks using different uniforms.
On thing that I realize looking back is that there was A LOT of variations in the uniforms in ST:TMP. So it might have been a trial period for new uniforms (which is much easier to do on a wide scale when you have replicators) with a choice a different colours, patterns etc. to get the opinion of everyone.
@@jean-philippedecarie2024 TMP did have a bazillion uniform classes and variations. Maybe Starfleet was just trying out some things to see what its officers and crew preferred?
Great video! At least it makes sense from the Monster Maroon to the one-piece jumpsuit/skant. Kinda also explains how Starfleet went from handheld communicators to communicator badge (combadge), with the movie era chest badge having being updated with combadge like components.
The transition was subtle and somewhat vague, but I do think Blackman did the best he could and made the most of what he had. The TNG-era communicator was one of the finishing touches of an improbable, impractical uniform transition reconciled as best as possible.
Thanks for watching. :)
I cannot imagine the effort it took to do the costuming every week for a TV series, especially where you making things up and can't just go buy readily-available clothing.
I helped supply things for a movie once, and even the pace of that was insane when all I was doing was gathering up military surplus items.
I agree. Costuming under the TV grind sounds both nightmarish and thrilling!
You should point out that the st movie uniform is a variation of the jacket from the cage episode.
Amazing video. So interesting how the costume designer was able to affect canon/in-universe history like that.
Thanks for watching! I'm glad you enjoyed it. :)
I wonder if when Blackman came on board, he had any idea he wasn't only shouldering the responsibility for the show itself, but the entire preceding era.
One thing Trek could learn from another show B5, JMS had a few demands on uniforms. Pockets for stuff that the pjs lacked and layered pieces suitable for different conditions exspecially later with crusade with an explorer crew. Arms came off and over coat/vest depending on temps.
This was an absolutely excellent video!
Well done!
I'm glad you enjoyed the video. Thanks for watching. :)
Another very important point about Blackman's approach to the uniforms, taking existing uniform costumes and simply changing the bits and bobs on them is much cheaper than making whole new uniforms.
Making the most out of what you have while still being as creative as you can is just good production. :)
TWOK had a comparatively tiny budget, and ST5 had a much larger budget than the preceding movies. It's all about doing your best and making the best use of what you have to work with. :)
Idk if I’m in the minority, but I really like the early spandex TNG uniforms aesthetically. Mostly from the rounded shoulders and the color stripe through them. I just like that style more than the plainer wool ones that replaced them.
It is a vibe! I've been surprised at how many people actually prefer the earlier TNG uniforms. Personally I love them both. :)
There were also the bodies of the crew on the Pegasus wearing the earlier TNG style spandex.
They did that with a lot of extras, since they probably had more of those costumes in stock than the two piece hero versions.
Good catch! :)
I'd actually thought about that one but didn't remember there being any crew members around when Riker and Pressman beamed aboard. Sure enough there were a couple dead "goldshirts" lying around in the background.
In the U.S. Navy, for third class petty officers and up, personnel with less than twelve years of service wear rate insignia on their service dress blues with red chevrons and rockers, whereas personnel with greater than twelve years of service and good conduct wear gold chevrons and rockers (those without good conduct are relegated to red). That may have informed the decision in Star Trek Generations to have red on the monster maroons' department-colored arm straps for junior personnel like Demora Sulu and Tuvok, and gold for senior personnel like Kirk, Scotty, Chekov, and Harriman. All of the examples you show are all ensigns or lieutenant junior grades, which would be junior personnel.
Interesting video, I like how these little conundrums get solved. I thought the blue Discovery uniforms were a great evolution from the blue Enterprise ones. Looking forward to seeing what SNW is going to do
would love to hear your thoughts, the behinds the scenes lore, and factoids upon the 29th Century uniforms as seen in Voyager. from Allan G. Royal's Captain Braxton 'Future's End' to Bruce McGill's Captain Braxton 'Relativity' more flushed out look, like why there seems to be such a shift in division colors to blue(command) green (almost hunter or forest green)(sci) and red(ops) if memory serves.
I think ops was a burnt orange, but yes I agree that that would be awesome to hear discussed. I've always wondered about the design concept and where the idea for the colours came from.
I do plan to eventually post about some of the "alternate future" uniforms we saw in the shows. :)
This was ridiculously enjoyable to watch. Great work putting this together. I want wait for more videos!!
Thanks for watching, and I'm glad you enjoyed it! :)
i love the maroon uniform i think its one of the best and the ships of that era are hands down the best looking too.
I love uniforms and starships of that era too. :)
Thank you. I had been curious about this for literal decades. Before this I thought there was just a sudden transition between Picard getting stabbed and the TNG era. Subtlety like that was lost on me.
You're welcome! I'm glad you found the video informative. :)
Thanks for watching!
Fantastic video. Obviously very thoroughly researched. Much appreciated.
I'm glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching. :)
I really like the scrapped McCoy Makeup Test Uniform.
Never been a fan of the shoulder strap on the Maroons.
you missed a huge one: 2358 USS Pegasus crew wore the TNG uniforms as seen in the episode Pegasus…not too far to think that the photo and Picard’s flashback and the hallucination were using the uniform then
Good catch! :)
I'd actually thought about the Pegasus but didn't remember there being any crew members around when Riker and Pressman beamed aboard. Sure enough there were a couple dead "goldshirts" lying around in the background.
Just wanted to say - that for me, at least, it’s terribly helpful to have all dates referenced relative to “Encounter at Far Point,” as you have done. It really helped me keep track of the (dis-)continuity! Also, terrific work overall, with just the right amount of attention to detail - thank you! (Pointing out goofs can be fun, but sometimes, imho, it’s lovely just to get on with it. Well done!)
I'm glad you enjoyed the video and found it helpful. Thanks for watching. :)
That's a great video. I wish you'd spent more time looking at the various Dress Uniform and Admiral Uniform variations since they imply a stronger connection to the past style, the off-centre flap and the more stylised collars. And it makes sense that the day-to-day uniforms would evolve but the fancy uniforms for special occasions or senior officers change slower. Unfortunately there's a LOT of quirky admiral and dress uniform variants with no clear trends or patterns in them.
I do plan to discuss the TNG formal uniforms (and hopefully examine several screen-used costumes) in later videos. Maybe the other two admiral uniforms too? We'll see! Thanks for watching. :)
Don't underestimate the possibility of uniform variation running concurrently.
A facet of RL uniforms is that they have variations, in many cases a particular variation or 'style' is coordinated to be worn on specific days or under specific operating conditions. In a naval context this variation can be different from ship to ship.
Great analysis. I love the TOS movie uniforms (well, not the Motion Picture uniforms). The TNG uniforms were also good - at least the one from season 3 onwards. Wasn't keen on the DS9 (and Voyager uniform) change to the polar-neck jumper/jump suit deigns, though.
I'm glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching. :)
The information I didn't know I absolutely needed until just now
Great video! I annoy my friends about these uniform changes all the time!
www.northernslant.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/gif-1.gif
Re twok style
I heard Meyer liked/wanted the more military look and jackets
The real world practical benefit was to cover/hide the growing waistlines of the aging tos crew, especially shatter and doohan😎
Red Chef jackets with a strap and a belt.
I love trek but that always gave me a chuckle.
I've always liked Piccard's jacket (overcoat?). It seems so worn that it could be old enough to have come from a previous uniform iteration.
Picard's "Darmok" (introduced and worn frequently throughout season 5, often seen in season 6, and barely seen in season 7) was a cool uniform with some notable TWOK stylistic influence, especially with the pant legs. :)
alyways been intrigued by the red uniforms used in tos movies, and part of tng flashback episodes. so it means they have been used in starfleet for quite some time up to picard's academy days at least.also loved that all startfleet ships at that time had an lcars made out of just green and blue
Thank you for the analysis! I have always had an interest in doing a Lost Era cosplay, such as with the styles seen in Yesterday’s Enterprise or Wesley’s father.
I'm glad you found it interesting. Thanks for watching! :)
Really interesting video!
Based on the examples you present here, 2350 would seem to be a nice conjectural date for the shift to the jumpsuits. Maybe Starfleet went for a mid-century shift back towards exploration, etc. following the Klingon alliance initiatives after the Enterprise C was destroyed, and so looked back to the “glory days” of the TOS era - thus ushering in the “golden age” in the early TNG era where they flew around in cities in space!
Kirk wore a vest in TWOK, and Generations. ?????.
Those "Pajama" uniforms were a Roddenberry idea. Those in my opinion were the worst. Only Admiral Kirk's uniform had class.
McCoy in that movie era jacket would have made him seem like an old traditionalist.☺
Captain Scott was wearing museum quality clothes. Also, he was issued a com badge over his officers bar pin.
2353, Picard still had hair !!!!.
The thing about the entire TNG era uniforms is that is was easy to distinguish rank and position at least for the officers. It was hard to tell the position for the enlisted.
I do like how quickly and easily one can identify a character's division and rank with the TNG-era uniforms.
ST TMP pajamas were a good precursor to TNG one piece uniform as we’ll ever get.
Really enjoyed the video. Thanks for putting it together.
I'm glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching. :)
Still love that man skirt!!! Wonder what his job was??
Glory hole booth attendant.
If you watch this video in its entirety and take notes, you are a true Trekkie.
There will be a test! ;)
@@ObsessiveCostumingDude Now do a video on why there are no toilets in Star Trek. We have seen plenty of scenes taking place in the brig, but no toilets in sight. Has Lower Decks answered this question given that it's a meta kind of a show? It better because the next season is its last.
Great video and awesome topic to cover. I love the lost era. I plan on getting the novel series of the same title. Did you know that in the episode of tng when deanna went into her mother's mind to help her and met her dad Ian troi was her mother's memory? But also in case you missed it earlier in that same tng episode, Deanna outside of her mothers mind and In her own quarters was opening a case of old things of her family and amongst the items was a framed picture of her father. He looked in the picture just like he did in Deanna's mothers mind/memory.
I'm glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching! :)
I have "The Lost Era" novels too but haven't read them yet. They're on my (very) long reading list, though ...
(And yes, I did mention Ian Troi's uniform from "Dark Page.")
I think there might even be some room for customization in this era. We've only seen a few transitory uniforms, there could be variants with or without belts, with collars, less turtlenecky ones. I kind of hope we will see some in the future of Trek, providing they still remain faithful to the original design.
also worth considering the posture of Starfleet (or the Federation) - if we roll a bit into the future we can see that when the situation is that the Starfleet is in “war” mode, the uniforms thicken and gets more militaristic while when its in peace mode (as in all TNG episodes) the uniform is more light, less heavy.
now this changes the original series a bit because… well… we still had the Klingon vs Starfleet situation, but Kirk and the Enterprise was more or less still on adventures thus less involved in actual war.
whereelse the events of the movies are exactly when the situation is hot/getting hot (up until the Enterprise C bravely sacrificing itself against the Romulans)
might not be the full story, but i would think the political and diplomatic situation of the federation and starfleet is relevant in the change. (hehe… albeit perhaps not intentional - but after all we are talking about a scifi series, so yeah… :) )
This is a great observation/suggestion. I was thinking about this as well as I watched this wonderful video. The shift in DS9 era to the black and grey with division color shirts fits here. As other videos have indicated, Starfleet shifted in the TNG "golden age" toward a seeming utopia with exploration (and only occasional conflicts). We see the same dynamics at play with ship designs prior to and after TNG (notably with the Borg and Dominion War). Now, let's consider the TOS era and TMP. The TOS era was largely exploration with some cold war elements (notably with the Klingons and later with the Romulans). With especially the Organian Peace Treaty, we see shift from the original uniforms (which shifted slightly from the two pilots and the non-Enterprise crew in "Charlie X") to the slim, tightfitting and two color (rather than three color) uniforms (the color shift takes us back to the color scheme of the pilots I think, albeit updated). What had happened a few years before the uniform change (remember this is suppose to be only about two years after the original five-year mission) was the Organian Peace Treaty. There was tension, but no open conflict between the Federation and the Empire. Even the Starfleet officer commenting on the Klingon conflict with V'Ger asked, "Who are they fighting?" We could take that as not only ignorance of a possible threat but also as an indication that the Klingons typical weren't engaged in major military encounters. The era was one of relative peace and stability in the region. And we have the almost jump suit design in uniforms. Jump ahead about a decade and we have TWK uniforms, the more militaristic ones. The political situation had also changed, as indicated in the scenario test and Kirk's comment to Saavik. And the roaming Klingon ship in TSS (and the Grissom's immediate "shields up" shock when the Klingons decloaked) (and the same situation in TFF with a semi-independent Klingon ship eager for glory), all suggest that tensions had risen, stability had weakened, and conflicts (thought not outright war) had become more commonplace. Even the continued yet failed "planet of galactic peace" effort seemed like a poor attempt to ease the new cold war political situation so it did not spark a hot war. So, all of this suggests that we have an onscreen precedent (in universe) to support your suggestion about the political shifts going on with the TNG (or really the post-Enterprise C destruction) move back to a jumpsuit type of uniform (an option that seemed to last for about ten years and then replaced for the more comfortable variant, which last for several more years before DS9/VOY uniforms were introduced (which also seem a bit more "jumpsuit"-ish) and only replaced with the more militaristic DS9 (TNG era films post-Generations) uniforms that came into play with the rising threat from the Dominion, Cardassians, and thus once again the unstable cold-to-hot war tensions across the quadrant. (Now what we do with ENT and DIS is another matter, so also Lower Decks and Picard; but those are other topics to pursue lol.)
Also: there's a real-life continuity with the Enlisted monster maroons and the Motion Picture uniforms, in that they were simply some of the jumpsuits used in that film dyed burgundy and with an added belt and other features.
Perhaps, in-universe; the adoption of the jumpsuits in the TNG era was an adaption of these, and the 'monster maroon' officer design was just kept for the TNG dress uniforms (as I conjectured below).
I do find it fascinating how despite being very different films, so much stuff from TMP was recycled and/or repurposed into the subsequent movies. It's very impressive how economical Fletcher & co. were, while creating entirely different visual aesthetics.
@@ObsessiveCostumingDudemy own in-universe headcanon fan theory is that the monster maroons weren't 'abolished' as such when the TNG jumpsuits came in-they were just redesigned (presumably to ape civilian fashions as regards formalwear at the time) and became the TNG dress uniforms.
Which kiiiiiind of makes sense of you look at the final iteration (there's several) of the TNG dress uniforms, which is seen in DS9's 'You Are Cordially Invited'-a belt is added, that and some other small changes make them look *very* like the monster maroons in design.
I'm not sure why Picard has command white as an ensign in those episodes. He should have a department color grey, or mustard. If not that then red for cadet officer, or jr command track officer. Like Savak in WoK. However Savak did not have a grey science department uniform in Search for Spock. Picard also has a mismatch coat. A mustard inner lining instead of white to match his strap, and undershirt. Could be an error, or what was available.
Later on you see other officers in white. I assume the woman wearing command white behind Kelsey Grammer is his XO. Maybe an in universe explanation is the XO roll was detached from being a department head. Freeing them up to go wear needed instead of run a department.
The undershirt changed due to the collar I'm sure. I remember reading an article about the making of the uniforms for later films. The turtle necks puffy ribbed style was made with a machine that injected air into the collar. They were down to one needle by the end. I think the T shirt underneath was a quick fix for running out of usable turtleneck undershirts.
If it's still able to hold air that is perfectly good for flying in space. You never abandoned a ship if it's still serviceable in some fashion.
Great video, wondered about this for a while
I'm glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching! :)
This was a fasinating video and deep dive. Well done and thank you.
I'm glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching! :)
I went back and looked up "the sound of her voice" because I remember the captain was found wearing the remains of an early TNG Uniform. The timeline matches up to being around season 2 TNG when her ship left on an 8 year mission. I'd been hoping it was further back than that go at least provide a few years buffer.
Fantastically researched and presented!
Thanks! :)
Great details and an awesome narration style!! Keep it up!
Thanks for watching, and for the kind words. :)
Don't forget though that the color variation gold to red was flipped around for the next generation series from the original series. If you're wearing a gold uniform in the next generation series it's like being a red shirt in the original.
I did mention the color swap in the next video, "The TNG-era Uniform Paradigm." :)
th-cam.com/video/BG2jupukMj8/w-d-xo.html
They sure got a lot of use out of those red jacketed uniforms from the movies. Still the best-looking uniform they ever used. Just classy.
They did look great, and the production crews did get a LOT of use out of them over the years!