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Pathfinder (2e) Magic Part 2: Prepared and Spontaneous Casting (plus Spell Slots and Heightening!)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ก.ค. 2024
- An overview of Magic in Pathfinder 2nd edition. In Part 2 we cover the differences between Prepared and Spontaneous spellcasters, as well as Spell Slots and Heightening.
Some of this material makes reference to our video on Counteracting, which may be viewed here: • Pathfinder (2e): Basic...
WANT TO SKIP AHEAD?
00:00 Introduction
00:14 Spell Slots
01:24 Heightening
04:50 Prepared Spellcasters
07:34 Spontaneous Spellcasters
12:02 TL;DR (Summary)
13:29 Close
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#Pathfinder2e #Pathfinder #RPG
Want to help support the channel?
Get you name listed at the end of my videos by joining my Patreon :
▶️ www.patreon.com/HowItsPlayed/
Thank me with a cup of coffee!
▶️ ko-fi.com/HowItsPlayed
I don't get how you are able to explain these things so well, thank you for the excellent video! Finally learned the difference
Awesome -- I'm glad the video helped!
Once again, fantastic quality. Good easy explanations.
Many thanks!
I wish I had this video when I first started learning, as it would have prevented much confusion.
As usual, I love the video.
I was actually about to call you out on the Signature Spell section, but then I realized that I had something wrong about it, as well.
Signature spells not only allow you to 'freely heighten' the selected spell, but if you take it as a higher level spell slot (say, take Magic Missile as a 3rd-level known spell), then you can also freely cast it as all lower-level versions of the spell.
Good point!
ok but this makes no difference right?
@@Leonardo-fv4vu
It makes no difference in the sense that a signature spell is defined as one you can freely cast using a slot of the spell's level or by heightening it up to your highest level spell slot. But it clarifies that you can make a lower level spell the signature spell gained from a higher spell level. Here's an example of why that distinction is useful:
Perhaps you enjoy casting Haste and you do it practically every combat. However, it is rarely counteracted so you never worry about needing to heighten it for that purpose. You also enjoy casting Fireball, which has some actual utility for being heightened as soon as you get 4th level spell slots. So you select Fireball as your your signature spell for spell level 3. Fast-forward to when your character eventually hits level 13 and you want to be able to cast Haste with a 7th level spell slot to allow you to pick up to 6 targets when casting it. This is complicated by the fact that it's competing with a 7th level spell you also want. The optimal way to accomplish this without items is by spending the appropriate amount of downtime and materials to learn Haste at a spell level 4 Haste (or any spell level above 3rd) and retrain your spell level 4 signature spell to be 4th level Haste. Because it is a signature spell, the minimum level you can cast it at is 3rd level, not 4th. So you are also able to retrain 3rd level Haste into something else. So, when you need that 7th level slot for something other than 7th level Haste, you don't have to burn a 4th level slot for no added benefit.
Tl;dr No one wants to heighten a spell for zero payoff. So having two spells of the same level be signature spells from either planning for future levels or retraining later can allow you to maximize the utility of the spells you cast.
You laid out this information clearly, concisely and in just the precise order of the questions that I had! Thank you for making these issues concerning spell casting easier to understand!
You're very welcome!
Excellent info here! Thanks for another great PF2E teaching video.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for explaining this. Spontaneous casting is a bit harder to understand than Prepared casters. Good job.
Really? I found it so much easier to understand when I was learning the system
I really appreciate all of your videos! Thank You!
You're very welcome!
Great info., as usual.
Thanks for these helpful videos
I love these videos. I also think it would be fun if you stepped outside of your usual content and did some let's make a character video or example combat encounter. Like a clip of something that would happen in a game and run through common questions and explain stuff how you do it so well.
First, let me just say that I love your videos and dedication to clearly explaining the rules to players. I send all my players your way to help cut down on at-the-table confusion.
Second, in most of my games spontaneous casters can "burn down" a spell slot.
This results in using up the higher level spell slot to cast a spell at a lower level, and taking damage equal to the difference in levels.
Example: Casting a level 2 Burning Hands spell using a level 4 spell slot. Doing so expends the 4th level spell slot, and the resulting spell is still only 2nd level. In addition the spell caster now takes 2 damage from the "magical burn."
Interesting house rule -- thanks for sharing!
Thank you! Owlcat should hire you to create the right tutorial for this game :)
If I am playing a club and wooden shield druid could I attach my Holly and Mistletoe to my club or shield (or maybe wear it) so I can still use it as my primal focus?
I have a question: what if you multiclass? Like be a druid and then take a primal sorcerer? can you use the primal list of the druid to fill your sorcere spell slots?
How do you know if a class is a prepared or spontaneous spellcaster? I can't find this in the class description anywhere.
It's sometimes hard to find, but whether a class is prepared or spontaneous should be mentioned in the Spellcasting section of "Class Features". For example, the "Divine Spellcasting" section for Clerics says "At 1st level, you can prepare two 1st-level spells..." So, Clerics are Prepared Casters.
One question about signature spells as a sorcerer. Say I designated magic missile in my level one slot as my signature spell and want to cast it as a heightened level 2 spell. Would I use a level 2 spell slot or as one of my level 1 slots since that is where I cast it from? Thanks for the video btw. It helped me out in other points as well.
Thanks -- glad to hear the videos are helping! And you would use a 2nd level slot to cast Magic Missile at 2nd level.
@@HowItsPlayed ok thanks. That was a little confusing to me.
So, can spells be heightened one spell slot higher? For example, 1st level into a second level? Thanks
Yes, any spell can be heightened. Although, most spontaneous spellcasters can only freely heighten their "signature spells". They have to give up one of their known spells to be able to cast other spells at a higher level.
About the prepared spellcasters, I've been struggling with them because I really dislike the idea, but currently I thought of something interesting, a Demoralization + Evil Eye (Witch Curse) + Agonizing Rebuke (Hobgoblin) that allows me to sustain Frightened 1 in 3 enemies while damaging them every round (yeah I need to demoralize them first to make Agonizing Rebuke work), but I don't know if this is a solid build due the fact that the Witch is a prepared spell caster.
Anyways, amazing video man, I've been waiting for you to start talking about spellcasting for a long time. I love how you explain everything in a way that a monkey would understand + you give examples.. that helped me A LOT to understand the system. Thank you very much.
Thanks for the kind words! I don't think I can comment on your build though... I haven't researched hobgoblins or witches well enough to have an opinion. But hopefully someone else can chime in!
@@HowItsPlayed Thanks man, I appreciate that anyway :)
I'm confused about one thing, that is the spontaneous casters heightened spells.in your example, you show that one of the 2nd level known spells is a comprehend language (lvl1) and in the 3rd lvl known spell list you have comprehend language (lvl3)? Is that because it's in the 3rd lvl spell slot? I though the reason that particular pc could cast healing (lvl3) was because he occupied two other spell slots with the previous lvl's of heal. Would that not also apply to comprehend language, making it only a lvl2?
For spontaneous casters, each level of a spell is treated as if it is a completely different spell (except if it is selected as a Signature Spell). What you see in the example at 9:40 are not "Spell Slots", but rather are the spells the sorcerer knows. In this case they know four 1st level spells, four 2nd level spells, and three 3rd level spells. Just because they know the 1st level version of Heal does not automatically mean they can cast Heal at 2nd or 3rd level. In order to do that, they need to select "Heal 2nd level" as one of their four 2nd level spells, and "Heal 3rd level" as one of their three 3rd level spells.
And since each level of each spell is treated like a completely different spell, this sorcerer does not need to know how to cast Heal at 1st or 2nd level in order to be able to cast it at 3rd. They could have decided not to take it until 3rd level... and if they did, then they could only cast Heal as a 3rd level spell and not cast it as a 1st or 2nd level spell.
The exception to this are "Signature Spells". Once a spontaneous caster designates one of their known spells as a Signature Spell, they instantly become able to cast that spell at all their spell levels.
@@HowItsPlayed thank you for being so quick to respond and be involved in your fan base. I have recently started playing pathfinder 2e and your videos have been the best resource of information I've been able to find on top of the books. You answered my question and I feel more confident on (at least) this aspect of the game 😅
I'm new to 2e, question: if I'm that 5th lvl Wizard and decided to Heighten magic missiles to 3rd lvl, does that mean i lose a use of Fireball?
Wizards are Prepared Casters, which means they must specify exactly how they plan to use their spells and spell slots at the beginning of the day. At 5th level, a Wizard can cast two 3rd level spells. In the morning, during their daily preparations, they would prepare these spells. They could prepare 1 use of Magic Missile (heightened to 3rd) and 1 use of Fireball. Or they could prepare 2 uses of Fireball. Or they could prepare two uses of Magic Missile (heightened to 3rd) and no uses of Fireball.
But once those morning preparations are complete, there's no changing it (unless you have a special ability that specifically allows you to do so, like Spell Substitution). So if you prepare 2 Fireballs, you can't decide 4 hours later that you want to instead use one of those spell slots on Magic Missile (heightened to 3rd). That's the downside of being a Prepared spellcaster... you are (mostly) locked into only casting the spells as you prepare them in the morning. Whereas Spontaneous spellcasters do not prepare in advance and can decide how to spend their spell slots at the moment the spell is cast.
@@HowItsPlayed ty, i think i get it, "Heighten" is just an other way of saying " "Higher level spell" so instead of having X open spells slots and casting the prepared spell at what ever level u decide, u need to fill the slots when u prepare the spells.
@@kickassmage Judging by your question it seems you are more familiar with 5e (me too), this spell cast system is a lot more restrictive but there are so many more options in other parts of the game.
Hey man, if you cast Animate Dead (Zombies), how many actions do they have, 1 or 2? Since they're Slowed 1
This is an area of some debate, but my reading of the rules is that the minion trait *limits* the creature to 2 actions per turn. It doesn't subtract one for being a minion... and then subtract another for being slowed. A zombie (who is slowed 1) already has 2 actions, which is under the limit imposed by the minion trait, so it's fine. 2 Actions is my interpretation, but this is a fuzzy area so other GMs may rule differently.
@@HowItsPlayed Thank you very much!
So, here's a series of questions then (coming from D&D 5th edition):
Clerics then can access any spell of the levels they can prepare each day like 5th....no spells known essentially? In other words, they "pray" or meditate or whatever and pick any they want to, up to their level that day to prepare from the whole list?
Same for Druids too?
Sorcerer's and Bards have spells known but change them up with availability of slots spontaneously? And would have to either discover new hidden powers within or be given them by something or someone or learn from somehow...?
Wizards though are limited to only those in their books and get nearly, if not exactly, the same number of slots as Clerics and Druids without accessing the whole list?
It seems to cause me to wonder then, why play a Wizard if there's no real edge for doing so at all.
Can you please help me get this? Thnx
Clerics and druids can access by default to all COMMON spells of the CORE RULEBOOK, to learn any uncommon or rarer spell or common spell from another book they need to use the learn a spell activity, spontaneous casters also have the same restrictions on the spells they can learn on a level up or by retraining, also I didn't quite understand what you meant with sorcerer and bard, could you clarify?
@@kamencraftbrasil4367 Thnx for the help. Took me another vid on TH-cam recently, but I figured it out. Thnx
New gm here trying to learn pf2. Amongst very good mechanics in pf2, casting is something I don't like.
that's super weird. as far as I can tell druids know the spontaneous amount of spells but are prepared spellcasters. How many spells is the druid supposed to know?
A druid knows all spells on the primal list, but they must prepare all spells once, at the start of their day, so it's flexible but limited.
They could take light n acid ball one day in a dungeon, but if they're in town and nowhere near a dungeon they might take mending instead the next day.
@@ostimeg wait, all? They can cast all primal spells?? That's nuts! Thanks!
@@TheUnluckyEverydude same goes for clerics
Clarification here. They can prepare in their spell slot all common primal spells.
Clerics and druids have default a access to all common spells of the core rulebook, any spell not in this category can only be accessed through the learn a spell activity.
I have a group who are primarily 5e and they are NOT fans of how the magic system works in pf2e. it makes me sad because I don't understand it at the level I need to in order to convince them that it isn't better to just play a non-magical character lest they be a seething ball of frustration. I feel that prepared casters make things more difficult on the GM as they have to prepare clues and insights on future encounters so the prepared casters aren't useless because they prepped 2 fireballs going into a battle with something that absorbs fire damage.
Do your players dislike PF spellcasting entirely, or just prepared casters? There are lots of people who dislike "Vancian" systems. A few options might be to either stick to the spontaneous casters, or just ignore the limitations of prepared casters. I know a few games that let prepared casters cast their spells spontaneously -- that's a bit unbalancing, but if it results in players having fun then I'm in favor of it.
Also, Focus Spells, which I haven't gotten into yet, go a long way to making spellcasting easier and more accessible.
And for what it's worth, the Secrets of Magic book that's in playtesting now will have alternate options for spellcasting. Most likely spell points that can be spent instead of preparing spells.
Also, I wouldn't worry about what spells a player prepares as a GM. If they only prepare fireball and fight something that's immune to fire damage, then that player just learned a valuable lesson about diversification. ;)
@@HowItsPlayed I mean totally valid. Their complaints seem primarily focused on prepared because it seems really easy to just prepare the wrong spells if I don't telegraph what kind of fight they may be heading into. (a serious issue low level when spell slots are preciously limited compared to Steve the barbarian, who casts fist lol) It also leads into the issue that I HAVE to telegraph what they are getting into, in order to give them a chance to be ready compared to spontaneous casters who can just dig out the most appropriate spell as a situation calls for.
@@RoughGalaxyYT I see what you're saying, but I don't think I would telegraph coming encounters for a party with a prepared caster any more than I would a party without one. It's never been a real problem for me... sure there've been times when a player hasn't had the optimal spells prepared for every situation, but that's to be expected. It's never been so great a problem at my table that it's interfered with everyone having a good time.
Plus, there usually are a few options for prepared casters to swap out a prepared spell for something they need in the moment. Arcane Bond let's you get back a spell you've already cast once and cast it again. Spell Substitution (one of the Arcane Thesis options) lets you swap out a prepared spell for another. So, there are options available to provide some flexibility without completely breaking things.
IMO, you're over-thinking this. But I don't know your players... All I can offer is that in my experience it's never been a huge problem.
@@HowItsPlayed I got you. It's more of a nuanced conversation with my players who are used to 5e where they get their prepared spells, of which they only ever need to prepare them once and choose to either use that spell for every slot, or not use it at all in favour of another spell they've prepared, and can upcast only at the cost of the slot (as opposed to having to prepare it in a higher slot at the cost of a higher-level spell).
eg: [D&D] A 4th level wizard may have 4 2nd level spells prepared, but only 3 slots to cast. They can either cast 1 of those 2nd level spells 3 times, 3 different 2nd level spells 1 time, or upcast a 1st level spell, all whilst having all of their options available to them. Conversely, [pf2e] if you want to cast that level 1 spell at level 2, it overwrites a slot for a native level 2 spell to be prepared, which seems counter-intuitive to the overall motif of pf2e in which it feels like it's built around giving people more flexibility.
Perhaps it's done this way to give more distinction between prepared and spontaneous casters? Prepared have more possible spells and slots to cast them but have to pick what they want at the start of the day, whereas spontaneous casters have much fewer options and slots but get to pick the spell they want to use at the time of casting. (If I understand your explanation correctly).
The general feeling I get from at least one of my players (Who plays all sorts of classes including magic users) is that Paizo dropped the nerf bat on magic users in general and that they aren't as powerful as they should be, which coming from the 5e system in comparison I can see why he would think that.
I eagerly anticipate further videos on the subject :) I do so enjoy the discussions.
@@RoughGalaxyYT
Prepared casters and Spontaneous casters were already sort of like this in first edition Pathfinder: as a Wizard, at the start of the day, you would prepare spells for all your spell slots and then use them, while a Sorcerer would have their slots free to cast any spells they know, but have a lot less spells known and they, unlike a Wizard, can't just pick up a spellbook from a fallen foe and read it to learn more spells.
I don't really see why one would prepare two fireballs considering that, well, that is a petty big blunder since, as you said, if the big bad of the day is immune to fire damage, you just played yourself, instead of just preparing a fireball and a lightning bolt, for example.
Even worse if they are Wizards(the most versatile spellcaster IMO), since Wizards have the Drain Bonded Item action, which lets them get back one spell they have prepared and spent that day(or one spell of every level they have prepared, if the wizard is an Universalist).
If your players are disliking Clerics and Witches because of this, I think you should recommend that they play a Universalist Wizard, with Spell Substitution
as their Arcane Thesis
.
The spells that the 5th level Wizard in the video prepared are purely for illustrative purposes and not really how one would expect a real player to prepare their spells, since preparing 4(!) fire based damage spells for a day is how one sets themselves up for disaster if they find a powerful fire resistant/immune creature(also summoning spells are petty bad if you are casting it at such low levels compared to your highest spell level), and they would probably not prepare 2 identical spells for their highest spell level, since it's pretty unlikely that they would need more than 3(2 + drain) castings of fireball in a day.
EDIT: Spacing.
One more question please, it's about Refocusing.. It takes 10 min to Refocus a Focus Point. Now, if I'm level 6 and have 2 Focus Points and I spend both, when I Refocus, how many Focus Points am I going to recover if try to Refous for 20 min?
I'm asking it because some people I talked with said you can only Refocus 1 FP a day, unless you've the Feats to Refocus more than 1 FP at time. I don't want to believe that it's like this for I find it extremely dumb and disappointing. What do you say?
There's no daily limit. You get back 1 FP per 10 minutes spent up to your maximum. And Jason Bulmahn has stated that this is intentional. So a Paladin could use Lay on Hands, Refocus, and repeat until everyone is completely healed after every encounter, provided they have enough time to rest.
But a LOT of GMs house rule this to limit that. I tend to ask my players to limit their refocusing to only once between encounters, but by RAW there is no rule limiting this.
@@HowItsPlayed What I mean is, apparently, if I have 2 on my Focus Pool and I Refocus 1 of them, I won't be able o Refocus the 2nd one, in order to Refocus again I'll need to spend the one I have. I find it so dumb
@@lincr.1988 Ah, okay... I see what you're saying. By RAW, that's correct. You cannot Refocus unless you have spent at least 1 Focus Point since the last time you used Refocus. So if you have 2 Focus Points, and use both of them, you can't Refocus back to 2.
@@HowItsPlayed Yeah, unfortunately.. it's a stupid dumb rule in my opinion, but what do I know right!?
Much needed, spontaneous casters confuse me.
Why? oO
Again, not a single mention of focus casting, which is casting
To me, if a player wants to burn a higher level slot for a lower level spell without the heightened benefits? Lol go nuts.
I loathe prepared spellcasting so much ❤️❤️❤️
I dont know why they insist on vancian when spell points / mana is both more sensible and easier to understand and use.
Thanks for the vídeo tho!