Kendra has the best stake - Buffy the Vampire Slayer s2e21 Reaction & Commentary
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- Buffy the Vampire Slayer season 2 reaction
Buffy Becoming Part 1 reaction
Kendra lands Buffy her favourite toy, Willow hits the books, while Dru reads the newspaper
Our movie channel, Sam & Maria:
/ @samandmariachannel
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I love the call back to the shopkeeper telling Jenny he had sold a couple orbs of thessola to some people as paperweights. Apparently one of them was Giles. lol
it also makes me wonder if Jenny had just mentioned to Giles what she was trying to do and that she needed one, Giles would have kept her secret and would have given it to her and maybe...JUST maybe, Jenny might've lived? Dru only got the info about Jenny from the shopkeeper. ( she had a vision, but she still didn't know what Jenny was going to do )
Dru is only the second vampire we have seen with the power of hypnosis. The Master had it, and now we see that Dru has it.
True - Maria
Whistler's voiceover is one of my favorite quotes of the series. Right up there with Angelus's monologue from "Passion."
Oh I like Whistler’s one, for sure - Maria
There are four sequential versions of the person called Angel. "Liam" was a worthless pretty boy drunkard and layabout. "Angelus" grew(shrank?) from that deficit start into a sadistic serial murderer. He's vicious and patient, but he's not a fearsome warrior or even a single minded predator. "Angel" was the successor personality to the first two. He is so tortured by a century and a half of unbelievably vile acts that he is completely paralyzed with guilt and horror.
He wallows in it for 90 years...and then he sees Buffy. It's more than love at first sight. She's a beacon out of Hell. EVERYTHING is about her.
Then Angelus returns and is humiliated and furious at the power she had over him and the perceived weakness...but he is just as obsessed. So he's even worse. And he is still a lazy, manipulative, theatrically Evil shithead. He's not particularly motivated to kill Buffy...why should he? He's got plenty of time. She's going nowhere. Her misery, guilt and horror are what gets him off, just like with Drusilla. Kill her and she's probably going to some version of Heaven(one would think there's a special Slayer Wing).
He can create Hell for her in Sunnydale.
And there're two more personas, one they will see, the other only read about
I loved the flashbacks in this episode, they were really well done. It broke me to see Drucilla begging to be a good person, she was so innocent, she deserved better. The Darla and Angel scene was a really interesting dive into their past life and added to their characters. I really like that Angel didn't just get his soul back and instantly become a hero, it was a choice.
I love the confession scene so much, one of those scenes that elevates the horror of vampires who are usually a bit tame. The way he just sets his sights on her immediatly and we know how this ends
Yeah, it’s a great one - Maria
At 29:02 I’m pretty sure he said “dog me” as in give me a hot dog.
yes that is what it was
Julie Benz was also in Roswell (the early 2000's version) and more famously in Dexter. She was also in a couple of the episodes in the 1st season.
Oh, Lord, in Dexter... 😨
The differences between Angelus, Spike, (+/- Drusilla), and The Master as "big bads" and how they go about accomplishing their goals is pretty interesting. We get to see that Angelus gets off on torturing and manipulating. Spike is more of a physical threat but is savvy enough to strike when it's convenient to him. And The Master had big plans but had to rely on all his minions to accomplish anything.
I think it's less about them actually thinking Buffy would get convicted of the crime. And more just to tie her up for a while in bureaucracy while they finish following through with their whole "end the world" thing.
True, any time she spends in custody or questioning is time Buffy is not saving Giles/stopping their plans.
Rip Kendra, you will be missed.
Absolutely! - Maria
@@TheBuffSummer*Spoilers*
But you know what that means? Faith is arriving. Can't wait, she's one of my favorite characters.
@roxirock5455
Def excited about that 😄 - Maria
Something that Xander doesn't understand is that the curse is not only tormenting Angel it's also hurting Angelus who has to sit back and watch as Angel helps people instead of destroying their lives
In E17 the magic shop owner tells Jenny that he mostly sold the Orbs as new-age paperweights, as they are thought to be no longer of use as the rituals/whatever have been lost. In this episode Giles says he has one that he's been using as a paperweight.
Yep, that did happen - Maria
I love that jacket and the color!! The slo mo run is iconic
Fair enough 😊 - Sam
I had a bunch of business dress suits made from that material of Buffy's jacket in the library. They were nice!
I'm glad you liked them , we're all a little different like that 😊✌️ - Sam
Even if the medical examiner could clear Buffy quickly, it's still currently the middle of the night. Best case scenario the autopsy would be tomorrow, buffy would spend the day being questioned etc. etc. I don't think framing her was intended to get her locked up. But jus to distract her and keep her occupied until they're done
I'm so excited for your reactions on this one and part 2. The slow motion scene is iconic.
I can understand that. I've been waiting for one moment that's gonna happen in the next ep this whole time 😄
Agreed, such an emotional moment in slow mo - Maria
Forever been a little traumatised by how easily Dru got to Kendra. The hypnosis is scary but I don’t recall Dru ever using that with anyone else. Just a cool way to kill someone off on Whedon’s part? It’s a shame as Kendra was so sweet. Dedicated to her work and a good person. She deserved better. But there is the tragedy.
It was actually brilliant that Kendra died by hypnosis. She's the most likely character to be susceptible to that, since her greatest weakness as a slayer was her obedience and lack of imagination (which Buffy pointed out in "What's My Line pt 2").
To be fair she hasn't been back at full strength for that long and we do get to see her use it again.
@@nathanielbacon2661very good point. She was a follower not a leader.
My biggest issue with this episode is them doing the ritual in the library which is 1. A part of the school which is a public space which as we have seen multiple times including in this episode vampires are just free to enter 2. Its part of a school where as prooven in the previous epiosde alot has gone down tonleave lingering energies/ghosts/curses 3. Its part of a school that regularly has monsters showing up there 4. We know thanks to tbe season 1 finale the library is over the epicenter (is that the right word) of the hellmouth. Giles was just saying how channeling energies for the ritual could be dangerous for Willow (and presumably the rest of them for taking part) so they are gonna do it in a place that is just a breeding ground for threats of all sorts that might take advantage of the moment.
Sorry for the rambling of this, and if it doesn't make sense. Im in a lot of pain right now.
It absolutely makes sense. I’m with you.
Hope you can have some relief soon 🙏🏻 - Maria
I think when Angelus says she falls for the trick every time is a reference to the first episode for the season when the vampires steal all her friends to bring back the master
Are ya’ll watching the terrible HD version? If so, be aware it’s possibly the worst one ever made and it actively destroys Whedon’s lighting choices and reveals equipment in some scenes. Just a head’s up that Buffy is possibly the only show where the SD version is better, if you can get it.
You are right about the HD version! You can see microphone booms, cameras and it messes with the fight scenes choreography.
No, we’ve been watching the original - Sam
The funniest part is when the Master was positioned next to Buffy for microphone reasons, but was just out of frame.
But then in the HD remaster he's clearly visible right next to her, talking towards the camera, and Buffy looks around and upwards confused, trying to figure out where his voice comes from.
@@TheBuffSummergood, thanks. The thumbnail has that overly plastic, bad-makeup look to it that the HD has, so I just wanted to confirm.
Becoming part 1 was a great lead into the brilliant S2 finale Becoming part 2. So much in this episode to digest. The loss of Kendra, Angel's back story being turned by Darla, and we also see Drusilla being tormented by Angelus in The Confessional. At least the floppy disk has been found, and Willow can now work her magic. We now have the climax to come, and you will not be disappointed a brilliant last episode to come. I think you can now really see how this show engrosses all reactors that enter The Buffyverse!
the next episode contains some of the best Buffy moments of all time, in my opinion. It will be so much fun.
Angelus is an emotional sadist. He gets off on causing people trauma, rather than just in killing. That is why Dru was his great achievement. He tormented her into insanity, and then made her immortal demon, the thing she feared becoming the most. Vampires are essentially the same as the human whose body they inhabit because they have all the memories of the person. they are just unencumbered by the lack of a soul to moderate their behaviors. The things that give Angelus pleasure, also give Angel pleasure, but Angel, having a soul, moderates himself. If Angelus is an emotional sadist, then so is Angel, and so was the human that became Angelus.
That's a really interesting take. I would say when he was Liam he could've been more emotionally manipulative than sadistic. He probably had that within him but as a human there's less opportunity to have that side of him have free rein without consequences, and he had a conscience. I wonder if Angel shows moments of being emotionally manipulative or sadistic... I think the immense pain and guilt he feels would keep him in check.
@psychedelicpegasus7587 The relationship Liam had with his father was about causing his father anguish. Angel derived pleasure from his fathers anguish. That is how he expressed his emotional sadism as a human. Even in this ep, the way he talked to Darla when he still thought she was a human had menace in it. He was trying to cause some fear in her.
As an ensouled vampire, in s2e3 his usenof Xander as a pointleas decoy served no real purpose other than to raise xanders anxiety and cause him distress. And when Xander asked Angel what would happen if Spike bit him, Angels' reply was nonchelant and again served only to give Xander anxiety.
You also see it in Angels' combat banter. Notice that Buffy's combat banter is often punny, and meant to bring some humor. But Angels banter is pointed at his opponents emotions. He tries to cause his opponents distress by his banter. In angel, s1 he even tells his cohorts that he enjoyed a dream about causing his victims fear before killing them.
In the figgt before Angel kills Darla, she tells him he is hurti g her "that's good too." There is evidence that Darla is a masochist. And masochists are well paired with sadists. Actually, Darla is probably both a M and S, where she likes to watch others in pain when she isn't being put in pain herself. That's why she loved Angelus. She got to watch him work, and get her M kink too.
You can also look at it through the lense of time, where Angelus and Angel had more time to develop into who they are, so they're already going to be different from Liam. Or maybe even the soul isn't his?
@spamfilter32 Wow, That is such a good in depth analysis, it reminds me of some of my thoughts about Spike. While I don't think Darla would stand for too much insubordinance (or disloyalty, maybe), I think you're on to something.
It's fun comparing all their battle taunts. Spike has a distinctive style, Xander's maybe is also kind of indicative of his background, and actually more similar to Cordelia's, they both put people down. Giles, I guess we know about the Ripper stuff. Drusilla's kind of mystical. Probably the most similar to Buffy's is maybe Ethan, funnily enough.
@@spamfilter32 All good points. I like your insight into Darla. She enjoys Angel/Angelus' sadism and the lengths he'll go to really hurt people, and I think she really delights in what she created by turning him into a vampire.
"And you fall for it every time!" Angel was refering to the first episode of the 2nd season, when Buffy was lured into a fight so that her friends were unprotected.
We weren’t confused about what he sad. We disagreed, because it doesn’t happen a lot - Maria
Not sorry, the jacket is iconic!
Why would you be sorry for that? It's all good 👍 - Sam
It's gorgeous! And she shouldn't have any trouble fighting in a well-made, well-fitted jacket. Though now I'm picturing Buffy running through fight moves in the dressing room whenever she buys clothes to make sure she can move.
Handle on the sword isn't small. It is the correct size for a 1 handed sword. Swords with a longer handle are meant to be wielded 2 handed.
I LOVE Buffy's jacket! I would wear that.
I was OBSESSED with that jacket when this first aired.
Totally fair 😄 - Maria
ditto
my prom dress was made of a similar fabric, kinda heart breaking to have them go on about how bad it is lol
@@lillie450 I know. I don't want to be mean, but someone who says they live in shorts and t shirts, really shouldn't be a fashion critic, lol. And "characters" don't dress themselves-someone in costuming tries to fit a characters personality with the clothes they will be wearing.
I always thought that the vampire side of them was still who they were as a person but on a more intense and less restricted level. Like how humans have a conscious and hold themselves back (for the most part) from harming others and giving in to sins (again, a being humane for decency sake situation that most people do follow). The demon pushes those feelings that we push back to the front and over the edge. Angel having his soul back was like reseting a computer in my eyes, like takes time to start up a web page and get everything back together but your files are still in storage. Angel was just getting his records back in order when his soul came back. In Buffy I always thought that the vampire was just a super intense and carnal version of who you are or could've been on the inside if you let yourself give in to everything (intrusive thoughts, anger, passion, etc.) But that's just what I always thought.
Most accents in the series have been criticized, but especially David Boreanaz as human Angel and Bianca Lawson as Kendra. Bianca Lawson was given a last minute change from her character originally being another nationality and her voice coach was too ambitious and wanted to do an accent from a remote region of Jamaica, while David Boreanaz just cannot do an Irish accent, but his character is written as being from Ireland.
I always wondered what "deja vu" Buffy was talking about, but also assumed it was an expansion of Buffy's dreams.
I don't look at the curse as Angel being punished. I look at it as Angel is the punishment. Angel isn't cursed. Angelus is. Angel had his time. And he spent it chasing women and died because of it. Angel is technically only a good person because of Angelus's actions. If he didn't feel that Angelus guilt he would have been a player and alcoholic for a short life and wouldn't be "alive" in modern day times. His life is just as a curse against Angelus. It may be unfair. But it is also his second chance.
Xander disliking the idea of restoring Angel's soul isn't the issue I have with him in the moment. It is how he chooses to talk to his friends. He even starts in on Cordelia before realizing she agrees with him. And don't get me started on him saying to Giles about Jenny, "Yeah, well she's dead." The line is not only rude, but shows a personality I cannot get behind. Plus, saying that line is hypocritical of defending her against death in _Passion._ If he wants to get his point across without having an attitude, and without being rude, Kendra is a better example of how he should have gone about it. She calmly tells Buffy, "I tend to side with your friend Xander on this one. Angel should be killed." Buffy talks to Kendra, but everyone has issues with Xander's attitude. If Xander cannot express his opinions to his friends without attacking and yelling at them, they won't care what his opinions are, with this or anything else. But Buffy does care about Kendra's opinion enough to explain things to her, because Kendra is respectful in her disagreement against Buffy.
Not only was Angel stalking Buffy from the day he found out she was a slayer, but he also lied about it. He pretends he is seeing her for the first time in _Welcome to the Hellmouth._ I've seen people argue it was for a good reason, but there were other ways he could have handled it. Such as: asking to fight beside Buffy, explaining Whistler and what Whistler said, saying he'd like to help (but doing so from the shadows [metaphorically speaking]). He never even had to initially bring up being a vampire with scenarios like these. Angel just chose to continue stalking instead.
The curse isn't about happiness. Its about feeling guilty. When he doesn't feel any guilt over Angelus' action... no soul. Enyos told Jenny that in _Innocence_ when he said, "One moment of true happiness, of contentment..." then he corrects himself by saying, "...One moment where the soul that we restored no longer plagues his thoughts, and that soul is taken from him." The Scoobies unintentionally create a situation in _Innocence_ where they have Jenny say Buffy did it. While that is true, happiness is just one of many vehicles that could create Angel not feeling guilty. If Angel were to ever get his soul back, whether anyone knows it or not, it would be harder for Angel to not feel guilty, even around Buffy because of Angelus' actions. None of it matters to the characters themselves, because they all believe Angel losing his soul is about happiness, and specifically sex with Buffy. The curse is very well written, but I've never seen anyone catch all the nuances without multiple viewings over many years.
Yeah, Angel's Irish accent has become legendary by this point. Obviously, not in a good way 😂
There's a theory that Druscilla was meant to be a Slayer and Angelus took that away. Her premonitions are similar to those a Slayer gets even as a Potential.
"Foolhardy" isn't precisely synonymous with "foolish", but I think it is the word you wanted. It means being recklessly bold. Basically, Hardy means bold. Foolhardy means foolishly so. In context, i think you used foolhardy correctly, since you were basically saying he was foolish in his recklessness.
Thank you, that's well put. I did mean that he has been recklessly bold 😊✌️ - Sam
According to Whedon the soul = the conscience, ergo Angel is a vampire (demon) with a conscience. This much is for certain. The rest will lead to arguments so I'm just going to leave it at that.
Food for thought: Angelus -- "She made me feel human. That's not something you just forgive." "In order to kill this girl, you have to love her."
❤🧡💛💚💙💜
“Irish” “accent” 😂😂😂 poor David, he’s trying. It’s terrible, but he’s trying.
Darla having Angle drink her blood from her breast is to symbolize her being his mother. Literally giving birth to him in his vampire self.
Yeah, but Kurt has done worse with Trish Stratus, anyway.
@happyslapsgiving5421 what is the reference?
I love that jacket - you guys like things that are like "what the..." just wait till your older and younger generations mock your fashions, and they will.
I don’t mind 🤷🏻♀️
Update: I was going for a light-hearted reply, but in case it’s confusing, a small edit here - I don’t like the jacket. If you like it, cool 👍🏻 - Maria
Dude, this IS my generations fashion we're talking about. I had friends and family wearing this stuff and I'm sharing my opinions. I literally said that I remember this style of jacket from the time. I didn't like it then and I don't like it now but I'm also not mocking it at all - Sam
I always looked at the vampire with the soul thing as if the Vampire is a demon that takes over the body. It looks like and remembers the person, but the person isn't really there. When they are resouled, there is only room for the real person, the souled person, and the demon is then held captive. I guess.
Sadly, I looked up the Rumania question. According to Wiki: "In English, the name of the country was originally borrowed from French "Roumania" (
Thanks for sharing this with us 👍🏻
So they did make a mistake having Rumanian woods instead of Romanian woods as it has been the correct way since ww2?
I think they should have picked a different place as having them in Romanian woods only adds to the confusion a lot of people have with Romanians and Romani. Not to say that Romani never lived in Romania, they travelled around the world and lived in many different places, but it can make it confusing if one isn’t that familiar with world history.
I know, right? They could’ve said an old version as in language evolved in the last 200 years, so she needed to update it to modern Romani and then translate herself or with a translator (not through a computer program for a literary text🤦♀️😅). She could hire a translator, or talk to some relatives if she needed help. It still took time for her to create the program (and oh my god computer program won’t translate that kind of text), so hiring a translator wouldn’t even be longer than that. Okay, my tangent about translation is over 😄- Maria
It seems like a vampire is still the same person at a base level and can remember everything that happens, but their morals turn around when they lose the soul and they see evil as the natural path and good as weakness.
14:06 pspsps, so Dru is summoning an evil kitty?? 😂
He is also doing a drunken irish accent.
Angelus is stuck within angel trapped watching him go around and do good now. So Angelus is being tortured by the soul.
It was cool to part of the chat. It is kind of a small but interesting group of people in chat. I've never done any chat in streams where there were 1000 people.
Glad you liked it 😊 it’s fun for us to do the premiere every week, thanks for joining - Sam
"Ten our Fathers and an act of contrition" means that she needs to pray that specific prayer 10 times and act remorsefully. It is a typical thing a Catholic father will say to a person confessing their sins during the act of confession in a church. Only reason I know this is because I grew up Catholic. As an adult I find the whole thing makes no sense. One person can murder another or commit a major sin but it is absolved if you show contrition just the same as someone with a minor sin such as stealing or committing adultery? It makes zero sense.
The Act of Contrition is not acting remorsefully. It's the name of a prayer. "O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee, and I detest all my sins because of thy just punishments, but most of all because they offend Thee, my God, who art all good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve with the help of Thy grace to sin no more and to avoid the near occasion of sin. Amen." Simply acting remorseful (or not) has nothing to do with forgiveness.
@@Raksha38 yes but my point is still valid, does not matter if you are Mother Theresa or a murderer, if you confess and ask for forgiveness, you can still go to heaven, there does not seem to be much distinction in the Catholic faith.
@Nexusofgeek Yes, everyone can go to heaven if you confess, ask for forgiveness, *and turn away from your sin.* The prayers aren't magic words that act as a get out of jail free card. If you aren't actually sorry, then nothing doing. But for the truly repentant, no one is beyond God's love and it's never too late to turn your life around. I don't know why you seem to think that's a bad thing.
The spell to return Angels soul was a curse on the demon that is inhabiting the body. It is bought up later but Angelus still feels everything, that's why he isn't just killing Buffy but torturing her. It's like Angelus is a rapid dog in a cage with Angel on the outside. It's also a revenge thing so the Gypsies aren't trying to save the world or stop a vampire. Their only goal is to punish those that hurt them.
Remember what Jenny's uncle said about the curse: it's not about just but vengeance. Angelus is supposed to suffer for what he did to her people, so the sould accomplishes that. Your sould doesn't house your memories though, which is why the demon can Remember everything Liam did and why Angel can Remember everything that Angelus did.
Why does the curse have way to break it? I assume that's just built into every curse. If the curse is to make him suffer, then not suffering will break it and release the demon.
20:00 Because vengeance is not justice. Vengeance is not proportional nor is it fair. And also I doubt the demon enjoyed being stuff inside Angel. The odd thing is the ending condition, when Angel the human is content the curse ends? That part makes no sense.
Angel is always calling Spike "weak", and yet, he's already killed 3 slayers
17:24 You should have said "don't give up the *slay* job".
Fair 👌 - Sam
Ok I think Buffy looks fantastic in her blue coat.
22:30 well Xander has a point. even if they restore Angel's soul he will always have the demon inside of him. If they allow Angel's soul to rest in peace and destroy his body the demon is gone forever.
And disregard the good Angel has done? If Xander has a point, it's based on jealousy, despite having Cordelia as a "consolation girlfriend". For a show that's pro-feminism, the underbelly of misogyny shows itself in a ugly way.
@@Madbandit77 Welcome to the "wonderful" world of Joss Whedon.
@@ms_scribbles That's exactly my point.
It really comes down to if you present the idea of death being a part of life or a great force to be fault. Too frequently for my liking, especaially for universes with confirmed souls and afterlife, writes have a bad habit of presenting anything but fighting to preserve life as bad. In this case, given souls are real, you'd think the goal would be to stop corruption and evil, but there it is. Western society has many hang-ups about life and death. Very few stories come at things from a death positive view.
Spoilery
Spoilers
Are spoilery
Its a real shame that a death positive take didnt get to be explored by at least one character in this season when discussing Angel given that the show actually does tackle death as a concept with more nuance and grace later on.
@@Madbandit77 Killing Angelus doesn't undo the good Angel has done. And remember that at this point Angels sould is restign in peace, Buffy drags it back the same way Willow does to her mcuh later.
I think a problem with angel being evil in this season is that he’s shaped to be this great evil and torturer. He has so much lore of his evil antics but that was all in the past. A different time. He wasn’t fighting slayers. He wasn’t going up against powerful forces who could stop him. He was eating and torturing “normal” weak humans. That’s the big difference I believe.
Finally coming back to this after catching 10 or 15 mins before work this morning
YES I remember "Ed"!!! Love that show. So hard to find.
I definitely remember Ed! With early Justin Long and Michael Ian Black roles. It was a decent show.
Also, Julie Benz is known to many from Dexter.
The Counsel cares more about getting revenge from Angel then solving the problem or saving the people. First they restored his soul to make him hurt and when he almost found happiness with Buffy, they again took away his soul. Basically they cared more about ruining Angel's life than protecting people who would die because of him. I never quite like Miss Calendar for not telling Buffy about the curse on Angel. She in the end was just as stupid as the counsel.
I remember Ed! Loved that show.
Oh, I Remember Ed. I loved that show. Him and his best friend use to bet each other $10? For a dare And then they’d “have” to do it lol. Julie Benz I know from Dexter (besides Buffy obv lol)
Yep, that’s the one. Loved it 😁 - Sam
That's supposed to be not romanian language, but ROMANI. They were gypsies, not romanians. But living in Romania.
Oof, the soul canon is a whole box of worms. The interpretation I've arrived at that works for me is that the personality is hard-wired into the brain and the soul is roughly equivalent to having free will-- hear me out.
The vampiric 'soul' or 'essence' that takes over the body has no character or personality of its own except a singular desire to consume, kill, inflict suffering and spread evil. It adopts the personality of the human it's taken over at the time of their death, shaped by their memories and experiences, and pushes it to its darkest extreme. Vampires are more like slaves to their worst impulses, where as the soul gives individuals the choice to resist them.
This, I think, is why Angel feels so guilty about Angelus's killings and why the Romani tribe may not see a distinction between the human and vampire versions of him: because it could be argued that Angel/Liam's pathology and impulses as a human are responsible for Angelus's sadism. Angel/Liam is the version of that individual capable of feeling remorse and suffering for his actions, and that's all they want.
In my opinion, under this interpretation, Angel is 100000% a victim. But he might not see it that way, and the Romani tribe might not either.
I think they iron out the whole soul vs no soul and vampire vs human issue as the series goes on a BIT, but it's always a bit of a grey area. Spike basically proves that yes, a lot of the human is retained in the vampire transformation Angel is like a demonstration of - what if you took away the ability to feel guilt, what would that turn a guy into? And that's a horrible truth about Angel, which is that maybe at root he's simply just more susceptible to becoming a monster.
Just as I thought 'wow what a nice jacket, and it suits her' you said you don't like it at all, lol.
Julie was in one of the Saw movies too.
I wish Whistler (whom I mostly like) didn't bring it down to this 15-year-old girl being prettier than the last girl who, as we all know, died in the service of the world.
The vampire form of who you are is your original self amplified (I guess is a way to put it). Which if anything made me not like Angel (regardless of soul or not) more so, because if that's how he treats the women he loves that's a red flag as to who his former self was. Spike's worshipping of Dru and the the way he is also due to his human self. Which I won't get into due to spoilers, but it'll become more clear over time.
On Screen: School cafeteria food.
"Some old fucking poison!"
The question of whether a vampire is or isn't the same person from who they are with a soul is complicated (and fictional) but I think of it this way: imagine there was a drug out there that made you completely unable to care about whether your actions hurt others. Think of every impulsive thought you've ever had in moments of anger or frustration, things that you would never ever EVER do but those thoughts pop up anyway, it's just human nature. While on the drug, there's nothing stopping you from acting on those thoughts. You no longer care if you hurt people, and you're also strong and fast enough to evade police capture so you will face no legal repercussions either. Oh! And this drug makes you crave human blood. Are you still you under the effect of that drug? Arguably, your behavior would be so different from non-drugged you that one might say you're a completely different person while under the influence. And yet, you're still the one doing the actions, the impulses still came from deep inside your nature. You were the worst possible version of yourself. Quoth Snyder, "PCP! It's a gang on PCP!"
Another way to think about it is to consider an alcoholic person who behaves in a wildly different (and violent) way drunk but not while sober. This is actually one of the metaphors that vampires are representing, particularly in the show Angel. Angel himself can be thought of as an alcoholic who was sober for a long time but recently relapsed. This view might make you a lot more open to Xander's perspective.
17:53 Rumania is how you say Romania in Spanish, and if you want to say someone/something is Romanian, in both Spanish and Italian, you say Rumena/o, but I don't know why they would use Rumania instead of Romania, especially if they're going to add the English -an ending to the word.
13:18 - I think he was impersonating the priest, because the accent was definitely taking on like an aged kind of tone as well. And yeah, I totally get what you mean about Angelus by this point losing a lot of his intimidation factor. He spent too many episodes lurking, watching, feeling grandiose and not feeling the need to be proactive because he feels like he'd already caused enough trauma to make his point. He likes to cause pain, but not necessarily to his benefit or increase in power - just his own amusement.
As for the Angel vs Angelus different people thing - it's complicated with him. Because technically, he's been four. Human Angel, before he was ever a vampire (his human name I don't think at this point has been revealed?). Angelus, when he was first turned into a vampire. Angel, after he was Angelus and his human soul was restored. Angelus, after he'd been ensouled for over a century and he was given free-reign again - because let's be frank, he'd been inside of Angel the entire time, just not in control - so in this season, soulless Angelus is now more akin to a demon Mr. Hyde than he is a normal vampire. He's spent a century dormant in the back of Angel's mind. Each one is really an entirely different entity, just with shared memories, because the composition of who he is both Supernaturally and Physically has changed so much. And souled Angel is a completely different person than who he was even as human, before he was turned and possessed by Angelus. because of everything he's experienced.
Romania is spelled with a U in some parts of europe. In Germany we spell it Rumänien. But in Romania it's spelled România I think. So Rumania is an interesting choice. Maybe it is supposed to sound old. Or has been written that way in english a while back. A lot of english words go back to old german terms and then changed the spelling later. But I don't know if it is historically acurate. Or pretentious. 😅
Julie Benz was also on Dexter
Please don't remind me...
Kendra really shouldn't have given away her lucky stake... 😢
The curse can be interpreted by the view, I feel. In my head, regardless that I personally see Angel, Angelous and Original Human Him as different people. I always felt the Romani people didn’t necessarily see the situation in nuance. Revenge/Vengeance is blinding.
On a side note the show explains that each Vampire has traits and personality tendencies that the original human host did.
They had primed the audience not to be surprised that Giles had an “Orb of Thessila”. In the episode “Passion” when Jenny is buying the Orb, the shop keeper mentions he’s sold a few as “paper-weights”.
Haha Whistler says “Dog me” not “Dog meat”. ☺️
I think the problem with soulless angel, and why hes not "scary" is because he is a coward, he never confronts buffy or anything head on, he manipulates and plays mind games.
I'm so excited to watch the next episode with y'all!
I❤Am Same Age As The Cast! So This Was My Favorite Show In College (I Graduated Highscool In 1996!)This Happens To One Of Favorite Season Finallys !I❤Adored That Show Ed! I think Drus People Where Romani Gypsies So They Cursed Angels Soul For Killing The Most Beloved Young Woman Of The Village!
Angel seeing Buffy for the first time as a 15 year old girl, licking a lollipop, has always rubbed me the wrong way tbh. I don’t know if it’s the Joss Whedon effect, but I never liked the undertones of those flashbacks.
It mirrors the stereotypical image from "Lolita"
IMO, Angelus is stronger than you think. How many Vampires have impressed the Master. He is a lot smarter than people think. He4 sent DRU and a few minions to get Giles while, as we all saw, he kept BUFFY far away and distracted. BUT, that is just my opinion. YES, Buffy can defeat him, I think. But Buffy is the Strongest slayer that we have seen son far. And I thjink that she may get stronger. She is still quite young. Ok, Great Post, Guys.
Awww my heart 😢💔I teared up...thank you both for making this video...what's going to happen next omg
I can understand that. Thanks so much for enjoying it with us ✨
Oh yeah, we already filmed it. Such a bittersweet episode. A lot of heartbreak and some great development for our characters - Maria
Xander's using Jenny's death to vent his own hate towards Angel out of jealousy
Xander just hates vampires in general. It is more than just mere jealousy.
@spamfilter32 Actually in the first season he didn't like the way how close he was with Buffy even before he was revealed to be a vampire
Yeeeeah... he's right, though.
@nightslayer6951 looking back, I realise I wasn't very clear with what I wanted to say. Xanders hatred of Angel is not solely about jealousy (even if that doea play some role). After all, he was willing to save Angel when he still had a soul, "but I don't like him." But he also just hates vampires in general due to vampires killing his best friend Jesse in s1e1, "I'm going to go out on a limb and say they are bad." Even if Angel and Buffy were never romantically involved, Xander still wouldn't like him because he is a vampire.
The difference between Angel and Spike is based on the kind of people they were before they were turned. Liam (Angel) was a piece of crap violent womanizer and alcoholic, not to mention a complete waste of space. William (Spike)...was very much not. (I'll leave it at that for spoilers' sake.) This is why, without their soul, they are completely different vampires, and Spike is a lot more attuned to his feelings.
Ugh, and Xander can just ***ing burn in hell. I used to be confused why he thought he got the final say over what happened with Angel, but then I learned about the kind of person Joss Whedon was, and the fact that Xander is basically his self-insert character...it made a lot more sense. Of course he thinks he can insult Buffy to her face and give her orders. He's the kind of man Joss Whedon thinks is totally relatable. I always knew I hated this character as if on instinct. Now I know there was a good reason that he kept giving me bad vibes.
[semi-spoilers, maybe?] Also it gives of vibes from the movie (franchise) Wishmaster.
I really like the backstory aspects being put in.
They kinda make it like a form of DID (dissociative identitie disorder) with the soul, no soul bit - but also has a very christian religious linguistical sub-text. The soul (psyche) and the cultural sub-text of the USA as Puritan Christian, keep the soul pure by keeping body and mind pure. Think the purity rings, purity balls, abstinence as sexual education only, etc. that type of Christianity.
With the Angel (soul), no soul (Angelus) version think of it like; an empath vs a dark empath.... it's this light vs dark, good vs evil, soul vs soul-less. Being a demon is a religious linguistic, in the cultural context a (Judeo)Christian context. We could go into the subject of demonology, and stuff...
Think; 72 Demons of Solomon - from many demons love was a attribute. 17th century when marrying for love for elites was still a sin, they had arranged marriages.
However I think that this and going even deeper down the rabbit hole would make it only more confusing.
Angels & Demons?!? Not a coincidence....
It's multi-layered mythologies & lores flattened out into one Buffy lore.
Devil child and spawn of satan are words also often said towards LGBTI+ youth in religious and conservative context.... As with the next episode and Buffy coming into her own, being a coming out story in many ways.
oh god its a bad accent bonaza and thats all can handle processing bcos ... oh boy this is my favourite 2 parter, i think this could be a movie on its own the writing is so bloody tight every point hits no miss everyone is on beat accents aside, these episodes are part of the ones that live in my bones ill never forget watching this the first time as a 6 year old too young probably too fully get it but it still impacted me so deeply, these episodes for me are a big part of what makes this show my favourite in the way that your favourites live in who you are sorry to wax poetic n not make proper sense but thats what these eps do to me man
This is a question on _Doctor Who._ Is it just the memories or are you the same person at different stages of your life?
I remember Julie Bowen in Ed! And Julie Benz in Defiance. Defiance is a show I wanted to like so much, I enjoyed the premise a lot, but it never really got there for me.
Ed was great 😊
That’s too bad, I enjoyed Defiance! - Sam
Interested to see the reaction. 🎉
Hope you enjoy it 😊 - Maria
could darla be considered a pretty little galway girl
Pet peeve: at around @39:40 when Buffy’s running down the hall (and, actually, a bit earlier on the street) the sound of her heels is audible. Footwear impractical for combat is one of my buttons (it’s admittedly somewhat of an odd one; welcome to My Brain). If your job involves running/fighting, it’s going to become apparent pretty quick which shoes work and which don’t. I mean, if you just watch her run, it looks like it’s harder than it needs to be.
Ok, rant over. :)
Nah it's fine, it's not an odd button, one of the newer Jurassic Park movies got roasted because they had one of the protagonists running away from the dinos wearing heels. Back to Buffy it makes no sense that she would go to the cemetery wearing anything other than flats. On a personal note, my HS physics teacher specifically talked about heels vs flats when he taught us about surfaces so yeah we share that pet peeve.
Have you seen RED (the Helen Mirren movie)?
I have, although it’s been a minute and I’ve lapsed on most of it. What am I forgetting?
@@noahrobin1941 The part when Victoria (Mirren) starts gun fighting in a dress+heels and Marvin (Malkovich) calmly shows up and hands her a pair of combat boots before they run to another location.
Vampaurthur.
👍🏻😄 - Maria
As a teen when the show first aired I thought Angel was cool, looking back he was such a simp, Spike is such a better bad guy
To be fair, Spike was 100% also a simp, he just didn't let that get in the way of his evil doings
@@roxirock5455
But at least he's man enough to admit it.
@happyslapsgiving5421 what can I say? He's love's bi"ch.
Tbh I’m not too interested in Angel or Angelus. The storyline of him as a villain was only interesting because of the effect it has on Buffy’s character and the rest of the Scoobies/their dynamics, not really because who he is as a character.
Totally fair 👍🏻
I’m okay with Angel, but Angelus at this point is very meh - Maria
@@TheBuffSummer Agreed! I was interested at first but by the end, he’s overstayed his welcome! The threats just aren’t resonating anymore lol. Spike get up!! We need some entertainment!! 😂
@@giorgia.m we sure do 😄 and we’ll get it! - Maria
Kendras accent is bad. 😢 it makes me sad everytime