If you're taling about the screeching noise, it's known as flange squeal. When a rail vehicle with a long wheelbase (like a 142) goes around a corner, that's the noise from the wheels. The more severe the curve, the louder the noise.
Hard to believe those bloody pacers are still going. Watching this video reminds me not of a time that's long gone but this morning as I went on a pacer to salford crescent. :P Nice video!
Been to Wallgate station many times in the late 80s and 90s but don't remember ever seeing those brown and cream liveried Pacer's there. The only ones I ever saw running between Wallgate, Manchester and Southport, as well as from North Western between Wigan and Liverpool, were the regular orange and blue Pacer's. Also I don't remember seeing that class at 2:40 at Wigan.
Yes, I have quite a lot of unmodified 142's recorded, it's just a case of finding them. I have hours and hours of recordings I am going through. It's taking time obviously but keep watching. I will be posting more.
Some class 101s were re-engined with Leyland TL11s, so the engine did sound similar. The orange 142 shown at 0:47 was one of only a handful still running with SCG gearboxes by this time and would have been only weeks if not days from being sent to Hunsley Barclay (Kilmarnock) for Voith conversion.
@andybray9791 Self Changing Gears - the manufacturer of the original gearboxes fitted to Pacer trains. The Class 140 at the Keith and Dufftown Railway and 141108 owned by Locomotive Services Limited still have these fitted. They are four speed gearboxes; three gear ratios plus direct drive in 4th gear, and the gear change was electrically controlled, depending on speed and load. The driver could delay a gear change, say when climbing a gradient where holding the current gear at high engine revs was preferable to letting the gearbox change up. Otherwise the gear change was automatic. The SCG gearboxes were a key weakness of the 14x units and after a successful trial with unit 141113, all of the class 142, 143 and 144 vehicles were fitted with a Voith two stage gearbox which used a hydraulic drive at low speed then direct drive - again selected automatically.
I remember Wigan wallgate when it had gas lighting on the platforms in the 1970s. And it being "modernised" in the early 80's all the old lights and station signs in a scrap metal skip outside. If I only knew what they'd be worth now ! . I'm 58 now so I'd have still been a teen then .
I have gone through the clip frame by frame and tried enhancements but there is no way I can get the number of the blue 142. Sorry, it must remain a mystery for now. I tried.
First travelled on a 142 between Man Pic and Birchwood in 2005........very bumpy. Luckily in years gone by my home area of Edinburgh mainly had 101s and 117s...........much more solidly built and comfy too.
@kevr1983 The 142s sound different now mainly due to the change of transmission from SCG to Voith than the change of engine. All the 142s shown here still had Leyland TL11 engines then. The orange 142 still had SCG gearboxes, but the chocolate and cream 'skipper' was a Voith conversion. The Leyland TL11s were replaced by Cummins LT10Rs between 1993 and 1996, as the TL11 engine went out of production in 1988. It was an updated and turbocharged version of the O.680 without the reliability.
Totally different engines on a 142 now. I remember in the very early nineties when we had a newly re-engined 142 on the 04:** staff train from Manchester Victoria up to Newton Heath, and the Old Hand Driver being gob smacked at its rate of acceleration!
Until recently little has changed. There are new units coming through or decanted stock to replace the pacers. But it shows how the area has been starved of investment over the decades. If this was in and around London it would have been wired up and had modern signalling a long time ago.
I have just re-checked my info and I can assure you that my date is 100% correct. I only had one day training at Wallgate box, that's how I can be so certain that the date is right. Are you sure that one blue unit didn't slip through ?
Great Vid!. Being a fan of pacers i find it interesting to compare the performance of unmodified 142's with the Modified 142's. I think the railways wont be the same when 142's come out of service, although i have herd (and i dont know for certain) that a 142 has been bought for preservation from Northern Rail. The unit in question im not certain and i dont think we will find out until they start withdrawing 142's and with the way's things are looking that might be a while yet.
@Redmanb11 Yes the Cummins engines were used on later Dennis Dominators and some Leyland Olympians as the Gardner didn't meet EU emission requirements in the early 1990s. They wouldn't have been able to upgrade the TL11s, they were unreliable from the start as they didn't like long periods of ticking over, which lead to head gasket failures. The TL11 seemed to run ok SCG gearboxes, but with the Voith they were sluggish and noisy as can be seen by the Cornish Skipper here.
It would be nice to see a class 142 restored to it's original spec, IE: Leyland TL11 engines, SCG gearboxes, Deans four leaf doors and original livery. I cannot see it being feasible to do all this work though. They had an altogether different character with the original drivelines.
@HORNEBEEDUBLO I'm pretty sure the Cummins engines were also used on some Dennis Dominators but sound very different! And if the Leyland engines had remained they eventually would of been upgraded or replaced by Volvo.
I am sure the guard did that for the benefit of my camera, not sure why though. If he see's it here maybe he can explain his reason. It amused me anyway.
The TL11s sound like they are about to fall to pieces! I doubt that they'd have ever fitted Volvo engines in trains. They could have used DAF 1160s, which are based on Leyland O.680s!
Haha love how the guard flashes the lights for the camera at 1:58 👌
If you're taling about the screeching noise, it's known as flange squeal. When a rail vehicle with a long wheelbase (like a 142) goes around a corner, that's the noise from the wheels. The more severe the curve, the louder the noise.
Hard to believe those bloody pacers are still going. Watching this video reminds me not of a time that's long gone but this morning as I went on a pacer to salford crescent. :P Nice video!
Been to Wallgate station many times in the late 80s and 90s but don't remember ever seeing those brown and cream liveried Pacer's there. The only ones I ever saw running between Wallgate, Manchester and Southport, as well as from North Western between Wigan and Liverpool, were the regular orange and blue Pacer's. Also I don't remember seeing that class at 2:40 at Wigan.
Yes, I have quite a lot of unmodified 142's recorded, it's just a case of finding them. I have hours and hours of recordings I am going through. It's taking time obviously but keep watching. I will be posting more.
I like the friendly Guard flashing the lights of the Cornish "Bendy" at you. Great :-)
Excellent Film! I like 142s 101s and 108s.
5* + Favorite.
Well done
It's taking time to go through my tapes, but yes, I will post more original 142's when I find them.
Some class 101s were re-engined with Leyland TL11s, so the engine did sound similar. The orange 142 shown at 0:47 was one of only a handful still running with SCG gearboxes by this time and would have been only weeks if not days from being sent to Hunsley Barclay (Kilmarnock) for Voith conversion.
Scg?
@andybray9791 Self Changing Gears - the manufacturer of the original gearboxes fitted to Pacer trains. The Class 140 at the Keith and Dufftown Railway and 141108 owned by Locomotive Services Limited still have these fitted. They are four speed gearboxes; three gear ratios plus direct drive in 4th gear, and the gear change was electrically controlled, depending on speed and load. The driver could delay a gear change, say when climbing a gradient where holding the current gear at high engine revs was preferable to letting the gearbox change up. Otherwise the gear change was automatic. The SCG gearboxes were a key weakness of the 14x units and after a successful trial with unit 141113, all of the class 142, 143 and 144 vehicles were fitted with a Voith two stage gearbox which used a hydraulic drive at low speed then direct drive - again selected automatically.
I remember Wigan wallgate when it had gas lighting on the platforms in the 1970s. And it being "modernised" in the early
80's all the old lights and station signs in a scrap metal skip outside. If I only knew what they'd be worth now ! . I'm 58 now so I'd have still been a teen then .
@1:55 when that brown 142 fires up it sounds like it has 1 car fitted with TL11 and 1 car with a L10
I have gone through the clip frame by frame and tried enhancements but there is no way I can get the number of the blue 142. Sorry, it must remain a mystery for now. I tried.
First travelled on a 142 between Man Pic and Birchwood in 2005........very bumpy. Luckily in years gone by my home area of Edinburgh mainly had 101s and 117s...........much more solidly built and comfy too.
The Pacer at 1:56 is a Voith conversion, but notice how much louder the Leyland TL11 engines are compared to the current Cummins LT10Rs.
@HORNEBEEDUBLO I'm pretty sure the Cummins engines were also used on some Dennis Dominators but sound very different!
Thanks for sharing this video. Do you have any more footage of 142s in service before they were modified?
@kevr1983 The 142s sound different now mainly due to the change of transmission from SCG to Voith than the change of engine. All the 142s shown here still had Leyland TL11 engines then. The orange 142 still had SCG gearboxes, but the chocolate and cream 'skipper' was a Voith conversion. The Leyland TL11s were replaced by Cummins LT10Rs between 1993 and 1996, as the TL11 engine went out of production in 1988. It was an updated and turbocharged version of the O.680 without the reliability.
Totally different engines on a 142 now. I remember in the very early nineties when we had a newly re-engined 142 on the 04:** staff train from Manchester Victoria up to Newton Heath, and the Old Hand Driver being gob smacked at its rate of acceleration!
Until recently little has changed. There are new units coming through or decanted stock to replace the pacers. But it shows how the area has been starved of investment over the decades. If this was in and around London it would have been wired up and had modern signalling a long time ago.
Fortunately a 141 has been restored on the Weardale railway with the original driveline.
I have just re-checked my info and I can assure you that my date is 100% correct. I only had one day training at Wallgate box, that's how I can be so certain that the date is right. Are you sure that one blue unit didn't slip through ?
My 13th birthday this was filmed on
I can assure you that the sound heard is the 142. They do sound different these days.
The blue one (unidentified) at 30 seconds was unmodified too.
The first time l went from Wigan Wallgate it still had Gas Lights
me too . id never seen them before :-)
Great Vid!. Being a fan of pacers i find it interesting to compare the performance of unmodified 142's with the Modified 142's. I think the railways wont be the same when 142's come out of service, although i have herd (and i dont know for certain) that a 142 has been bought for preservation from Northern Rail. The unit in question im not certain and i dont think we will find out until they start withdrawing 142's and with the way's things are looking that might be a while yet.
@Redmanb11 Yes the Cummins engines were used on later Dennis Dominators and some Leyland Olympians as the Gardner didn't meet EU emission requirements in the early 1990s. They wouldn't have been able to upgrade the TL11s, they were unreliable from the start as they didn't like long periods of ticking over, which lead to head gasket failures. The TL11 seemed to run ok SCG gearboxes, but with the Voith they were sluggish and noisy as can be seen by the Cornish Skipper here.
The ex skipper was indeed 142023. I will check further and get back you you again regarding the blue mystery.
I want to (try to) preserve 142088. The only one I ever got to see the cab of.
@Redmanb11 Definately agree with you there. Sound a lot better than the hoovers for engines they have nowadays!
I used to catch the Wigan to Manchester train every morning for school ( get off at Hagfold)
It would be nice to see a class 142 restored to it's original spec, IE: Leyland TL11 engines, SCG gearboxes, Deans four leaf doors and original livery. I cannot see it being feasible to do all this work though. They had an altogether different character with the original drivelines.
Nice to see what has changed and what is the same between now and then. I wasn't even born then haha :D
Flange squeal. I went out with someone who had that.
@HORNEBEEDUBLO I'm pretty sure the Cummins engines were also used on some Dennis Dominators but sound very different! And if the Leyland engines had remained they eventually would of been upgraded or replaced by Volvo.
According to my records the date is correct, 30th January 1991. The unit in question I believe to be 142013 but I am not 100% on that.
Still on the same pacers now. the track looked very rough then.
I thenk the guard was showing off for the camera :o)
This film is 30, yes 30 years old next week. (today 23.01.21)
If a pacer is preserved i hope it is 142001 n returned to original condition and in gmt orange.
Pacer with a TL11 hellfire!
wow at 0:49, that engine gives me goosebumps (should've kept them engines!)
Agree, the replacements sounded weak and feeble, these were proper.
2両編成のローカル線の列車。
Just over road for Wigan North Western
the leyland engines on the 142s when combined with the voith transmissions were doomed from the outset!
I am sure the guard did that for the benefit of my camera, not sure why though. If he see's it here maybe he can explain his reason. It amused me anyway.
The TL11s sound like they are about to fall to pieces! I doubt that they'd have ever fitted Volvo engines in trains. They could have used DAF 1160s, which are based on Leyland O.680s!
Now Wigan is a crazy place. It has the highest rate of domestic cocaine use per capita.
Lot of pie shops
That year freddie mercury died of aids
I know local authorities help fund transport , but did they really need to paint trains in that shite Jaffa cake orange colour !!!!!