Your practical and useful knowledge is beyond most other youtube channels by far. Thanks for the videos. Ultimately, everything that happens has to support the "story". Story is everything. Each fragment of each scene is a little story itself that has to fit inside the story of the film. Keeping that in mind with everything everyone does on set, or in ADR, keeps the continuity and gives self-direction, meaning, and context to every effort.
That was a funny scene from Snakes on a Plane. Hahaha. This video makes me think of many scenes in crowded restaurants where the main actors are speaking and everyone else is simply pantomiming conversations in the background. The digital age has made so many aspects of movie making ‘easier’. Orson Welles and his crew were master radio producers long before he directed film. Thank you for posting. Another thumbs up!
John, THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH fro the great lessons and lectures that you give on this lovely page! I do not know any words more than thanks to express my appreciation. Thanks a lot my friend!
Many thanks for this extremely helpful video. Thinking in terms of ADR as an option where sound recording could hold back the flow of a production is liberating!
I've had good luck doing ADR for my projects. A bit more work, but it worked out. I rigged up an ADR system using my PS4 and played the relevant clips and had the talent listen via headphones. Minimal bleed-through from the original audio and it worked out well enough for a short film.
You are great. I was just looking at what is ADR. In this video I also got to learn a little better about the film industry and many other things I didn’t know so thank you for the time and effort you spent to make this video.
Just discovered your channel through NoFIlmSchool.com and I got to say, very impressed with your videos so far. Very informative, well thought out, easy to follow. You've got a new fan! (and subscriber.)
Regarding your mix, I have a tip (I work in Audio Postproduction): it is gernerally viewed as bad practice to not have the audio centered, at least over here in Europe. This is not a huge thing and I am usually not a big fan of such rules, but it might seem "wrong" for a few people in the audience. Speech is what the Center Channel in 5.1 was invented for, because it gives the illusion the actors on the silver screen are the source of the sounds they produce.
Agreed, the panning did distract me somewhat from the actual content. However, if we were shown the ADR version before the standard, do you think the panning would be as noticeable? The point I'm making is I'd question if this is a psychoacoustic effect whereby the panning seems more exaggerated after watching the original footage with the fog machine recorded in mono (as in it contrasts significantly in comparison).
Joshua Kelly There's also a bit on the speaker placement and whether or not people are watching on headphones. I do believe there's a lot of the psychological effects to this. For one, telling people that it is ADR will force viewers to look more carefully for sync and audio issues than if this was just another video online. So I guess the answer is... probably ;)
Filmmaker IQ I found the panning to be incredibly distracting. By separating the two voices like that, it sounds like the actors are no longer right next to each other; it's no longer intimate. Even though it wasn't recorded on-set, mixing them both centered would give us the illusion on on-set, thus making it more immersive.
This hits the painful spot: Audio always has to aid the narration (as the picture should). There are millions of ways to immerse people into a movie - but it is always wrong to demand the viewers attention with an effect (and I would call panning dialog an effect), when the viewers attention should be with the persons on the screen.
One of my favorite TV safe ADRs is from The Big Lebowski when Walter is trashing that guy’s car. “DO YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU FIND A STRANGER IN THE ALPS?!”
There's some great tips and tricks in this video! The viewing enjoyment of any film is greatly improved with clear and properly aligned audio. I'm now using Avid ProTools 12 with software called VoiceQ for cueing up voice-talent to get the best results.
this truly is a great series! I noticed you had significant panning on the dialogue in your Casablanca parody. Is this something you do for most of your projects?
Filmmaker IQ I think it was too much panning. In commercial DVDs and BDs all dialogues goes from Central channel and just a little from left and right. By the way thank you for your explaining
I would never have done this during a mix and print, however, for the teaching purposes, I thought it was enjoyable so I could concentrate on the performances of the actors.
I keep learning from your vids. Prior to this i had no idea how dubbing is done. Tried it a few times in former projects but failed to synch with lip movments. After watching this, learned that looping is key! Yes! Speech to song makes so much sense! Even tried it along with that girl saying "but richard, what about us?" Lol thanks FIQ. Thanks John Hess!
I would suggest throwing on a DeEsser. The alignment was spot on, but the High-Mid harness of both performances took me out of the element. But only just slightly. Nicely done!
Great video! I loved it! I did a short little film project with my buddies at a friends house. We were quickly losing light and I didn't have a boom mic at the time or even access to one. Just had my MacBook Pro, Canon 550D and my Zoom H1! It was a military raid short and both of my buddies who played the commando's wore headsets as props and one wore a mask, well I shot the whole thing and realized that the distance from my cameras built in scratch mic would never work so I went the ADR route! The voices of the actors were to sound like they were coming from a radio which was easy enough to do right in a DAW of any kind but I took advantage of the fact that my buddy who wore the mask was delivery most of the lines, that way lip sync was not a huge issue, when editing I could add entire lines of dialogue that I had not even thought of before to add more creative effect because the mask covered my buddies mouth. It was really quite fun, my buddies were kind of antsy but when they saw the rough cut they thought it was magic, it was pretty cool and in the end they insisted on adding their own artistic effects like a couple of silly lines and beat boxing during the credits. If I had done anything other than ADR I do not think the small little project would have worked and honestly I would rather ADR the majority of a short, its time consuming in post but you can do so much if you get a clean signal in the DAW, artifical reverb, creating the walky talky sound effect by dropping the sample rate and bit depth and adding some distortion and EQ adjustments, etc.
If you want to replicate the acoustics of the set or location, you can learn how to record and process convolution impulses. They're a wonderful thing, and particularly useful for this purpose. If your DAW doesn't support convolution reverb, there are plenty of VST convolution reverbs out there that are easy to find.
Fantastic video! I remember in the Lord of the Rings trilogy how they would sometimes film at 30fps then play it back at 24fps (slowing down the footage) and re-record all of the dialogue to give scenes an ethereal feel (basically all the dialogue was ADR anyway).
Actium Films It works perfectly on the system I cut this on... but not everybody has my speaker configuration... I can understand that isn't the proper technique is to have all dialogue coming from center. Yes, if I had it to do again...
+Filmmaker IQ I wouldn't say it works nomatter what speaker setup you have - the end of the scene still has the male in the scene coming from the left, despite the subject being in the center of the shot, but the problem relating to the theme of the video is that it's "over-enhanced". Audiences would know that you're not going to get a perfectly stereo sound from that area, and so it has a fake dubbed feeling to it, instantly losing the illusion. As a concept and example, it was okay, but it still sounded a little 'studio recording' - as in too clear, too crisp. Still not bad though!
+Steven Jackson We recorded dialogue in an external location, and it's just a little weak, plus there's a little wind. What's the best way to replicate the sound of outdoor location dialogue without it sounding like it was recorded indoors? I've actually considered having the actress stand outside with an iPad link to ADR her dialogue. Thank you.
Tokiofritz There's no rule that you HAVE to ADR in a studio though it may add some problems recording outdoors. To get audio to sound "outdoorsy" you need to add back in the ambience and character of "outdoorsy" sound. That means replicating echo (or lack of), background noise, wind noise etc..
Not to forget that for your final piece, you added some panning and placed the actor left of center and the actress to the right. That for me also goes a long way to making the audience think the sound was captured on set and immerse more in the scene. :)
Regarding that, watch my other comment. If set sound is done well (at sets I saw) the boom guy recorded ONE clean mono signal for speech (or one per actor, depends). Generally in Post soundmixers use the center channel for dialoge. People are so used to that placement, that panned out stereo seems somehow "strange" and is usually not what you want. You may use panning, but way more subtle: I sit in a perfect stereotriangle and the voice seems to come offscreen, which tends to be distracting ; )
Windkind0 Ha, I didn't know that. Thanks a lot. I usually keep my speech centered in the mix, but I thought it was mostly because of laziness. ;) Anyways, in this very example, it actually improved the scene for me, but then again, I've been watching it on my desktop computer with speakers in the back of the monitor, so nothing really seems "off-screen". No 5.1 in my house, sadly. :)
To start, I love your videos ... they bring a lot to the table not covered (or covered morelike a proper classroom type session) by other channels like Film Riot and RJFS. I know this is an old video but ... still gonna comment. You mention that ADR for low / no budget film ADR is seen as a "avoid at all cost". I recently shot some re-enactment scenes for a documentary (I was DoP, Audio, Lighting ...) and since we didn't have exclusive access to the location we ended up with a rowdy wedding party taking pictures in the background ... hooting and hollering ... The reason we didn;t end up doing ADR is because the "director / author / producer / ..." didn't really understand film making (he didn't even understand how to get coverage for a dialogue scene) so explaining that we would need to bring in the actors to my "studio" for several hours to re-record the audio was a hard sell (that I failed to make) and also the talent not being experienced enough to understand how to do ADR ... how to try and recapture that performance and to line it up with the original take. No one involved in the film, other than myself, understood how ADR (or anything related to filming really) works so it was a no go. :/ This is why I avoid ADR ... not because i don;t understand how useful it CAN be but because at the level of projects I am doing ... no one else does.
I learn a lot from your videos and experience John, really great vids. I just shot a scene at my apt, cuz it's the only place i can do it--built a set. Unfortunately, the last/first 30 seconds of your flight into/out of LaGuardia airport is perfectly in line with my apt. Every 30 seconds...really awful. I'm not even sure I can bother with ADR here, but my collegue has a iso-booth in manhattan.
10:40 there is something missing: "room tone" from the tarmac. I know you tried to simulate it in the background BUT you have to bear in mind the fact that the dialogue is in the foreground and it brings with it the natural reverb of the room it was recorded in. In this particular instance it is really obvious it was recorded somewhere else. Maybe if you were to get some "room tone" from the place the initial scene took place and give it a bit of gain it would bring down the obviousness. EDIT: wow, you didn't even mention room tone in a video about ADR. Too bad, it makes all the difference in the world and any newbie watching this should learn about it, especially since it's not that big a thing althewhile having a subtle but noticeable effect. Your videos are awesome, still. Keep up the good work and thank you for the content!
Great job on that final film. Funny. Throughout the video, I was really hoping you were going to use the scene of Jerry Lewis in 'The Errand Boy' (1961) where he sings 'Lover' (Lyrics by Lorenz Hart, Music by Richard Rodgers) to replace the original audio in a film clip. Funny stuff.
This should offer some hope for those film makers that are thinking of either shelving their short films or scenes due to bad sound. Because I’ve done some great shorts that never saw the light of day simply due to ( I was told) sound problems- I felt like I wasted my time helping others to produce their project. Why didn’t the producer/directors consider ADR? (no comment)
I am in no way a professional filmmaker. I've made a few "no-budget" short comedy films with my two-piece comedy duo, but that's about it. I learned how to edit and sync video and sound from scratch without any previous knowledge of filmmaking whatsoever, and it actually didn't turn out bad at all. I have been able to improvise and invent ways to shoot and edit (sort of like a much less talented Orson Welles). In the last year I have been getting a lot more into film, but still more of an admirer than a creator. James Rolfe of Cinemassacre.com is the one who got me into film. He is a brilliant guy! He was the one who introduced me to the "Golden Age", as he was the first person I'd ever seen talk about film not for information, but for appreciation. He is the reason I love film. Again, I am not a professional filmmaker, but I absolutely love film. I find the more I know about how things are done, the more and more I appreciate every aspect of a film. You and him are the only two people who I've seen that articulate an immense amount of knowledge and appreciation in such a way that inspires me to make more films. I watch your videos because I am a fan, and I want to learn everything I possibly can. Thank you so much for creating these fantastic educational videos. You are a very knowledgeable person and your videos are hands-down the best I've ever seen on these subjects. You arm us fans with the knowledge we can put to use to potentially make films of our own, and I have the utmost respect for you. Thank you very, very much!
You know who else wasn't a professional filmmaker when he started? Buster Keaton, Charlie Chaplin, Orson Welles... I could literally put down everyone in the silent era. No one starts off knowing everything. What you are doing is following in the steps of every filmmaker before you - trying out different things because you love the medium. Don't hang your success on any arbitraty measure - measure your success by how you grow and your films make you feel. It's a passion, I think you've found it. Never stop making movies. All our very best :)
I used ADR on almost the entirety of my latest video "Cooking for mom" and it came out way better than it ever would have with natural sound. I didn't perfect the ADR though, so the illusion is broken a couple of times. Unfortunately, in timed film competitions I've found that ADR is almost off limits. Even taking the time to sync audio can be a serious problem and ideally you have someone mixing on set as you film; and an editor ready to take the clips as the filming is happening.
John, a RØDE NT-1 is a good mic, but I prefer an Electrovoice RE-20. Mucho bang for the buck (c. $400). (48-year retired network broadcast and audio engineer here).
Thanks for pointing out that ADR is not a "bad thing." I can't count the number of cringes I've encountered by simply mentioning the term. But the reality of the matter is, you can't properly do any outdoor scene without it. Especially in a place with a number of random sounds like a big city. The only advice I'd add to your wonderfully complete coverage of this topic is not to forget to keep a decent tail of silence after the individual clips so there's room for any processing, like reverb.
That's a good point. I'm seeing it over and over again - like if you do ADR or any post sound that means you failed in production. That's simply not the case.
Nice video John ! ADR is kind of freaking beast. And not only for narrative work. I shoot online course videos, and I'm right know discovering the power of post-sync to rerecord some sections of the lectures whose audio quality is sub-optimal. I especially liked the part about "looping" and the idea of that "song effect" kicking in definitely makes sense with what I observed through trials and errors. One thing I still don't understand though is _what exactly should hear the talent when recording ?_ The original track ? Or his own voice like for a "normal" recording session ? A mix of both ?
Thank you for your replies ! _"generally the talent should hear the recorded scratch track in a loop"_ I tried that myself this afternoon and indeed it works pretty well. Maybe its because I'm not a native English speaker, but in the first few iterations there are a lots of gibberish in the re-recording as I more or less conscientiously tried to get my words in sync with what I hear. But after 3 or 4 iterations, there's something almost hypnotic that kicks in, and the results is pretty good. _"you don't have to have the talent listening to themselves [...] if you want to change up what they're saying."_ *This* was much more complicated to me. For such a simple thing as changing one word or adding a missing "s" sounds at the end of some words, I tried to lip-sync with what I saw on the monitor. But the result was not very convincing. I finally had to resort on the first option, but lowering the scratch track level to the point I was able to ignore the wrong words. That way, the result was not bad, even if sometimes my voice sounded more aggressive, just like if I was trying to "impose" the new words. But as everything about video & film making, I assume practice will make things easier ...
Yep the hypnotic part is why the loop really helps ;) Not having a reference is definitely hard - like you said, lots of practice and then whatever tricks you can think of to get you to that "performance" It's definiely much harder to pull off a realistic ADR.
Great work John, still keping it up video after video! As for the speech sync in Adobe Audition, what margin of error did you have while using that function?
Are you talking about the automated speech thing? It worked about half the time - but I manually synced the tracks for most of the show because I found that quicker.
Indeed! I thought you did so too, since a function like this would have caused more problems than it solved, but maybe in the future it will be improved on, perhaps!
we touch a little bit on it in the post production video: th-cam.com/video/r4791OLkRrs/w-d-xo.html Basically combing is the result of really fast slappy echo - generally under 15ms - in recording audio, it something to be avoided but I found that adding it in makes the clean studio audio sound a bit more like something recorded on location.
Have you guys ever heard of Revoice Pro or vocalign that does all the syncing for you in a second or two ?. Including perfect timing, pitch and emotions ?.
I noticed in a movie a replacement, because the actor said while shooting the wrong name. In another movie the censors requested replacing dialogue, because in a scene a masseur said, he would be expert for human bodies, especially female ones. The replacement wasn't funny "I am also photographer". One movie was completely with dubbing, because the actor wasn't willing to say stupid things and so they fooled him.
+David Martin That sucks... Well if you end up ADRing the whole thing - you might end up with a better mix than you had originally - just take your time and get it perfect :)
Why did you pan the voices left and right that much? To me this is just as off-putting. Because it sounds like i'm standing almost in the middle of the two, yet the picture tells me otherwise. Other than that, i think your yt videos are very well done. Clean tone, informative with nice captions and well cut.
One tning i have learn with audio syncing visual with audio, even with gig footage. You can tell, if its miles second out. You can tell something it off
merasanam It was recorded using a boom mic. Without the fog machine, it might have been okay but there's no way we could have gotten the intimate voice inflections that you could do with ADR.
Filmmaker IQ Thanks for your reply. Is this what they typically do for movies to get great sound or the boom mic is preferred? Or perhaps is a matter of time and money... Also, if you could post another video just with the final result. It's great just to post on FB.
That Snakes on a Plane clip was unintentionally hilarious.
'' I did not hit her, It's not true, It's bullshit I did not hit her, I did naaat !!!.....Oh Hi Mark ''
The Room - ADR at its best.
This has to be the best channel on TH-cam!
Your practical and useful knowledge is beyond most other youtube channels by far. Thanks for the videos. Ultimately, everything that happens has to support the "story". Story is everything. Each fragment of each scene is a little story itself that has to fit inside the story of the film. Keeping that in mind with everything everyone does on set, or in ADR, keeps the continuity and gives self-direction, meaning, and context to every effort.
This channel is the digital gold.
That was a funny scene from Snakes on a Plane. Hahaha.
This video makes me think of many scenes in crowded restaurants where the main actors are speaking and everyone else is simply pantomiming conversations in the background.
The digital age has made so many aspects of movie making ‘easier’.
Orson Welles and his crew were master radio producers long before he directed film.
Thank you for posting.
Another thumbs up!
John, THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH fro the great lessons and lectures that you give on this lovely page! I do not know any words more than thanks to express my appreciation. Thanks a lot my friend!
Many thanks for this extremely helpful video. Thinking in terms of ADR as an option where sound recording could hold back the flow of a production is liberating!
brilliant 'intro to adr' johnHess... loved the twist on casablanca...
This was the most helpful video on ADR that I was able to find. Thank you!
I've had good luck doing ADR for my projects. A bit more work, but it worked out. I rigged up an ADR system using my PS4 and played the relevant clips and had the talent listen via headphones. Minimal bleed-through from the original audio and it worked out well enough for a short film.
You are great. I was just looking at what is ADR. In this video I also got to learn a little better about the film industry and many other things I didn’t know so thank you for the time and effort you spent to make this video.
"Replace a word or two from previous lessons", good one :D
Great video, great history of the practice I really enjoyed that. Very good explanation of the concept and a brilliant how to.
Dude, I just have to congratulate you on that short film. It was hilarious!
What a great video! I learn so much from Filmmaker IQ. Thanks!
Good stuff John and the team. Well done as always!
Great intro, and a hilarious parody! I loved it and can't wait for the next video!
Just discovered your channel through NoFIlmSchool.com and I got to say, very impressed with your videos so far. Very informative, well thought out, easy to follow. You've got a new fan! (and subscriber.)
Regarding your mix, I have a tip (I work in Audio Postproduction): it is gernerally viewed as bad practice to not have the audio centered, at least over here in Europe. This is not a huge thing and I am usually not a big fan of such rules, but it might seem "wrong" for a few people in the audience. Speech is what the Center Channel in 5.1 was invented for, because it gives the illusion the actors on the silver screen are the source of the sounds they produce.
Thanks for the tip! I did pan the audio a bit (like 65-35) - may have been a little too aggressive with it.
Agreed, the panning did distract me somewhat from the actual content. However, if we were shown the ADR version before the standard, do you think the panning would be as noticeable? The point I'm making is I'd question if this is a psychoacoustic effect whereby the panning seems more exaggerated after watching the original footage with the fog machine recorded in mono (as in it contrasts significantly in comparison).
Joshua Kelly There's also a bit on the speaker placement and whether or not people are watching on headphones.
I do believe there's a lot of the psychological effects to this. For one, telling people that it is ADR will force viewers to look more carefully for sync and audio issues than if this was just another video online.
So I guess the answer is... probably ;)
Filmmaker IQ
I found the panning to be incredibly distracting. By separating the two voices like that, it sounds like the actors are no longer right next to each other; it's no longer intimate. Even though it wasn't recorded on-set, mixing them both centered would give us the illusion on on-set, thus making it more immersive.
This hits the painful spot: Audio always has to aid the narration (as the picture should). There are millions of ways to immerse people into a movie - but it is always wrong to demand the viewers attention with an effect (and I would call panning dialog an effect), when the viewers attention should be with the persons on the screen.
Awesome! This totally negates my previous comment. Thanks for your patience, really happy with your channel.
One of my favorite TV safe ADRs is from The Big Lebowski when Walter is trashing that guy’s car. “DO YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU FIND A STRANGER IN THE ALPS?!”
I love this Monday to Firday show!
There's some great tips and tricks in this video! The viewing enjoyment of any film is greatly improved with clear and properly aligned audio. I'm now using Avid ProTools 12 with software called VoiceQ for cueing up voice-talent to get the best results.
Thanks for bringing the oldies up to date, I laughed my ADR off!
Great lesson !! And the social network video is simply awesome !!! Well Done sir !
This was simply excellent. Loved the historical context also!
this truly is a great series! I noticed you had significant panning on the dialogue in your Casablanca parody. Is this something you do for most of your projects?
I do it when it "feels" right. In this case, because the ADR is so dry, the panning helps sell the illusion of more than one audio source.
Filmmaker IQ I think it was too much panning. In commercial DVDs and BDs all dialogues goes from Central channel and just a little from left and right. By the way thank you for your explaining
After reflecting on it for a while - I'm in agreement with you guys.
I disagree. I like panned dialogue! It could have been done to a lesser extent, though.
I would never have done this during a mix and print, however, for the teaching purposes, I thought it was enjoyable so I could concentrate on the performances of the actors.
Fantastic lesson. Just as the one on Foley. Subscribed!
This adr lesson was very informative. Thank you so much for this.
I keep learning from your vids. Prior to this i had no idea how dubbing is done. Tried it a few times in former projects but failed to synch with lip movments. After watching this, learned that looping is key! Yes! Speech to song makes so much sense! Even tried it along with that girl saying "but richard, what about us?" Lol thanks FIQ. Thanks John Hess!
Great video! I liked your purposely-obvious ADR at the end of the sentence where you talked about your viewers noticing ADR in your videos. Good joke.
I would suggest throwing on a DeEsser. The alignment was spot on, but the High-Mid harness of both performances took me out of the element. But only just slightly. Nicely done!
Thanks for the suggestion!
I just got a very nice pair of headphones, and now I can identify every ADR in movies, series and youtube videos. Is no annoying
Great video as always!
What a twist. Bravo...
Thank you! This is much appreciated for a novice like me!
Cool stuff, John. I was trying to explain ADR to someone and your video does a much better job; thanks!
Great video! I loved it!
I did a short little film project with my buddies at a friends house. We were quickly losing light and I didn't have a boom mic at the time or even access to one. Just had my MacBook Pro, Canon 550D and my Zoom H1! It was a military raid short and both of my buddies who played the commando's wore headsets as props and one wore a mask, well I shot the whole thing and realized that the distance from my cameras built in scratch mic would never work so I went the ADR route! The voices of the actors were to sound like they were coming from a radio which was easy enough to do right in a DAW of any kind but I took advantage of the fact that my buddy who wore the mask was delivery most of the lines, that way lip sync was not a huge issue, when editing I could add entire lines of dialogue that I had not even thought of before to add more creative effect because the mask covered my buddies mouth. It was really quite fun, my buddies were kind of antsy but when they saw the rough cut they thought it was magic, it was pretty cool and in the end they insisted on adding their own artistic effects like a couple of silly lines and beat boxing during the credits. If I had done anything other than ADR I do not think the small little project would have worked and honestly I would rather ADR the majority of a short, its time consuming in post but you can do so much if you get a clean signal in the DAW, artifical reverb, creating the walky talky sound effect by dropping the sample rate and bit depth and adding some distortion and EQ adjustments, etc.
+nateo200 Very cool!
I think ADR gets a bad rap unfairly. Sure it's a difficult technique and it takes a lot of time... but so does everything...
+Filmmaker IQ Bad rep thanks to Italian westerns. You can either do it or not, folk I know are bloody useless at it.
Brilliant as always, thank you so much for these videos.
Awesome video, as usual!
I like what you did at 5:51. I was using headphones (Sony MDR-V6) to monitor though. :)
Thank you for this video! So so informative and helpful!
If you want to replicate the acoustics of the set or location, you can learn how to record and process convolution impulses. They're a wonderful thing, and particularly useful for this purpose. If your DAW doesn't support convolution reverb, there are plenty of VST convolution reverbs out there that are easy to find.
+iLikeTheUDK I'll have to check out this concept - thanks for the tip!
Fantastic video! I remember in the Lord of the Rings trilogy how they would sometimes film at 30fps then play it back at 24fps (slowing down the footage) and re-record all of the dialogue to give scenes an ethereal feel (basically all the dialogue was ADR anyway).
Awesome man! Great video!
You did a GREAT job!!!M one of the best tutorial videos on youtube!
Great video John
The audio sounds great, but the panning wasn't a good idea at all.
Actium Films It works perfectly on the system I cut this on... but not everybody has my speaker configuration... I can understand that isn't the proper technique is to have all dialogue coming from center. Yes, if I had it to do again...
+Filmmaker IQ I wouldn't say it works nomatter what speaker setup you have - the end of the scene still has the male in the scene coming from the left, despite the subject being in the center of the shot, but the problem relating to the theme of the video is that it's "over-enhanced". Audiences would know that you're not going to get a perfectly stereo sound from that area, and so it has a fake dubbed feeling to it, instantly losing the illusion.
As a concept and example, it was okay, but it still sounded a little 'studio recording' - as in too clear, too crisp.
Still not bad though!
+Steven Jackson We recorded dialogue in an external location, and it's just a little weak, plus there's a little wind. What's the best way to replicate the sound of outdoor location dialogue without it sounding like it was recorded indoors? I've actually considered having the actress stand outside with an iPad link to ADR her dialogue. Thank you.
Tokiofritz There's no rule that you HAVE to ADR in a studio though it may add some problems recording outdoors.
To get audio to sound "outdoorsy" you need to add back in the ambience and character of "outdoorsy" sound. That means replicating echo (or lack of), background noise, wind noise etc..
Filmmaker IQ
Thanks!
Thanks for uploading this! It really is nice to learn so much more about making movies :).
Not to forget that for your final piece, you added some panning and placed the actor left of center and the actress to the right. That for me also goes a long way to making the audience think the sound was captured on set and immerse more in the scene. :)
Regarding that, watch my other comment. If set sound is done well (at sets I saw) the boom guy recorded ONE clean mono signal for speech (or one per actor, depends). Generally in Post soundmixers use the center channel for dialoge. People are so used to that placement, that panned out stereo seems somehow "strange" and is usually not what you want. You may use panning, but way more subtle: I sit in a perfect stereotriangle and the voice seems to come offscreen, which tends to be distracting ; )
Windkind0
Ha, I didn't know that. Thanks a lot. I usually keep my speech centered in the mix, but I thought it was mostly because of laziness. ;) Anyways, in this very example, it actually improved the scene for me, but then again, I've been watching it on my desktop computer with speakers in the back of the monitor, so nothing really seems "off-screen". No 5.1 in my house, sadly. :)
To start, I love your videos ... they bring a lot to the table not covered (or covered morelike a proper classroom type session) by other channels like Film Riot and RJFS.
I know this is an old video but ... still gonna comment.
You mention that ADR for low / no budget film ADR is seen as a "avoid at all cost".
I recently shot some re-enactment scenes for a documentary (I was DoP, Audio, Lighting ...) and since we didn't have exclusive access to the location we ended up with a rowdy wedding party taking pictures in the background ... hooting and hollering ...
The reason we didn;t end up doing ADR is because the "director / author / producer / ..." didn't really understand film making (he didn't even understand how to get coverage for a dialogue scene) so explaining that we would need to bring in the actors to my "studio" for several hours to re-record the audio was a hard sell (that I failed to make) and also the talent not being experienced enough to understand how to do ADR ... how to try and recapture that performance and to line it up with the original take.
No one involved in the film, other than myself, understood how ADR (or anything related to filming really) works so it was a no go. :/
This is why I avoid ADR ... not because i don;t understand how useful it CAN be but because at the level of projects I am doing ... no one else does.
Well it's time to change that isn't it ;)
excelent, good work
I learn a lot from your videos and experience John, really great vids. I just shot a scene at my apt, cuz it's the only place i can do it--built a set. Unfortunately, the last/first 30 seconds of your flight into/out of LaGuardia airport is perfectly in line with my apt. Every 30 seconds...really awful. I'm not even sure I can bother with ADR here, but my collegue has a iso-booth in manhattan.
I didn't know what it was called, but I knew it existed. Thanks for the video :D
10:40 there is something missing: "room tone" from the tarmac. I know you tried to simulate it in the background BUT you have to bear in mind the fact that the dialogue is in the foreground and it brings with it the natural reverb of the room it was recorded in. In this particular instance it is really obvious it was recorded somewhere else. Maybe if you were to get some "room tone" from the place the initial scene took place and give it a bit of gain it would bring down the obviousness.
EDIT: wow, you didn't even mention room tone in a video about ADR. Too bad, it makes all the difference in the world and any newbie watching this should learn about it, especially since it's not that big a thing althewhile having a subtle but noticeable effect. Your videos are awesome, still. Keep up the good work and thank you for the content!
In looking for someone to do some ADR work. Email me vonvitto@gmail.com
Great job on that final film. Funny. Throughout the video, I was really hoping you were going to use the scene of Jerry Lewis in 'The Errand Boy' (1961) where he sings 'Lover' (Lyrics by Lorenz Hart, Music by Richard Rodgers) to replace the original audio in a film clip. Funny stuff.
This should offer some hope for those film makers that are thinking of either shelving their short films or scenes due to bad sound. Because I’ve done some great shorts that never saw the light of day simply due to ( I was told) sound problems- I felt like I wasted my time helping others to produce their project. Why didn’t the producer/directors consider ADR? (no comment)
I stumbled upon this channel, and I've been watching for 15 hours. This is great! Can anyone offer a CV?
I like your video very much. It's really great. I'll keep an eye on your channel. I am your fan and I will support you.
I really love your videos! I'm currently working on a short film that I'm shooting on Ultra 16mm film to be cropped to 2.35:1
I laughed out loud, that was a cute twist.
My most ignorance of Cinema is disappearing b/c of this cute guy. Thank you !
You forgot to center audio in the dialogue
I am in no way a professional filmmaker. I've made a few "no-budget" short comedy films with my two-piece comedy duo, but that's about it. I learned how to edit and sync video and sound from scratch without any previous knowledge of filmmaking whatsoever, and it actually didn't turn out bad at all. I have been able to improvise and invent ways to shoot and edit (sort of like a much less talented Orson Welles).
In the last year I have been getting a lot more into film, but still more of an admirer than a creator. James Rolfe of Cinemassacre.com is the one who got me into film. He is a brilliant guy! He was the one who introduced me to the "Golden Age", as he was the first person I'd ever seen talk about film not for information, but for appreciation. He is the reason I love film.
Again, I am not a professional filmmaker, but I absolutely love film. I find the more I know about how things are done, the more and more I appreciate every aspect of a film. You and him are the only two people who I've seen that articulate an immense amount of knowledge and appreciation in such a way that inspires me to make more films. I watch your videos because I am a fan, and I want to learn everything I possibly can.
Thank you so much for creating these fantastic educational videos. You are a very knowledgeable person and your videos are hands-down the best I've ever seen on these subjects. You arm us fans with the knowledge we can put to use to potentially make films of our own, and I have the utmost respect for you. Thank you very, very much!
You know who else wasn't a professional filmmaker when he started? Buster Keaton, Charlie Chaplin, Orson Welles... I could literally put down everyone in the silent era.
No one starts off knowing everything. What you are doing is following in the steps of every filmmaker before you - trying out different things because you love the medium.
Don't hang your success on any arbitraty measure - measure your success by how you grow and your films make you feel. It's a passion, I think you've found it. Never stop making movies.
All our very best :)
GREAT teaching !! Thanks !!
Dat stereo effect.
ADR, like all audio, is very unforgiving of error, but I agree that it is a vital tool in filmmaking
Great great work! Thank you!
Thank you very much for this tuto.
I used ADR on almost the entirety of my latest video "Cooking for mom" and it came out way better than it ever would have with natural sound. I didn't perfect the ADR though, so the illusion is broken a couple of times.
Unfortunately, in timed film competitions I've found that ADR is almost off limits. Even taking the time to sync audio can be a serious problem and ideally you have someone mixing on set as you film; and an editor ready to take the clips as the filming is happening.
your videos are just so damn good, glad to come across this channel
John, a RØDE NT-1 is a good mic, but I prefer an Electrovoice RE-20. Mucho bang for the buck (c. $400). (48-year retired network broadcast and audio engineer here).
Hahahaha that twist ending. :D
Nice.
Thanks for pointing out that ADR is not a "bad thing." I can't count the number of cringes I've encountered by simply mentioning the term. But the reality of the matter is, you can't properly do any outdoor scene without it. Especially in a place with a number of random sounds like a big city. The only advice I'd add to your wonderfully complete coverage of this topic is not to forget to keep a decent tail of silence after the individual clips so there's room for any processing, like reverb.
That's a good point.
I'm seeing it over and over again - like if you do ADR or any post sound that means you failed in production. That's simply not the case.
thank you, this was great!
lol that scene made me laugh well done! 🤙🏼
5:50 ...this guy
Fantastic nugget of info here! Thanks for the video. I was wondering if you originally filmed this in 4k?
intheSHEDmedia - No, everything you see is shot in HD (2K)
Nice video John !
ADR is kind of freaking beast. And not only for narrative work. I shoot online course videos, and I'm right know discovering the power of post-sync to rerecord some sections of the lectures whose audio quality is sub-optimal.
I especially liked the part about "looping" and the idea of that "song effect" kicking in definitely makes sense with what I observed through trials and errors.
One thing I still don't understand though is _what exactly should hear the talent when recording ?_ The original track ? Or his own voice like for a "normal" recording session ? A mix of both ?
+Sylvain Leroux generally the talent should hear the recorded scratch track in a loop so it's a matter of matching what they did
Of course - you don't have to have the talent listening to themselves - especially if you want to change up what they're saying.
Thank you for your replies !
_"generally the talent should hear the recorded scratch track in a loop"_ I tried that myself this afternoon and indeed it works pretty well. Maybe its because I'm not a native English speaker, but in the first few iterations there are a lots of gibberish in the re-recording as I more or less conscientiously tried to get my words in sync with what I hear. But after 3 or 4 iterations, there's something almost hypnotic that kicks in, and the results is pretty good.
_"you don't have to have the talent listening to themselves [...] if you want to change up what they're saying."_ *This* was much more complicated to me. For such a simple thing as changing one word or adding a missing "s" sounds at the end of some words, I tried to lip-sync with what I saw on the monitor. But the result was not very convincing. I finally had to resort on the first option, but lowering the scratch track level to the point I was able to ignore the wrong words. That way, the result was not bad, even if sometimes my voice sounded more aggressive, just like if I was trying to "impose" the new words.
But as everything about video & film making, I assume practice will make things easier ...
Yep the hypnotic part is why the loop really helps ;)
Not having a reference is definitely hard - like you said, lots of practice and then whatever tricks you can think of to get you to that "performance" It's definiely much harder to pull off a realistic ADR.
I couldn't agree with you even more. ;)
Great work John, still keping it up video after video! As for the speech sync in Adobe Audition, what margin of error did you have while using that function?
Are you talking about the automated speech thing? It worked about half the time - but I manually synced the tracks for most of the show because I found that quicker.
Indeed! I thought you did so too, since a function like this would have caused more problems than it solved, but maybe in the future it will be improved on, perhaps!
Would you please explain why and how the combing delay works? I hear the effect, and it sounds quite nice.
we touch a little bit on it in the post production video: th-cam.com/video/r4791OLkRrs/w-d-xo.html
Basically combing is the result of really fast slappy echo - generally under 15ms - in recording audio, it something to be avoided but I found that adding it in makes the clean studio audio sound a bit more like something recorded on location.
Filmmaker IQ Ah yes, hmm, yeah so I liked the effect, but it seemed a bit too stylistic to just start adding it everywhere :)
Have you guys ever heard of Revoice Pro or vocalign that does all the syncing for you in a second or two ?. Including perfect timing, pitch and emotions ?.
Haven't messed with those yet..
I noticed in a movie a replacement, because the actor said while shooting the wrong name.
In another movie the censors requested replacing dialogue, because in a scene a masseur said, he would be expert for human bodies, especially female ones. The replacement wasn't funny "I am also photographer".
One movie was completely with dubbing, because the actor wasn't willing to say stupid things and so they fooled him.
Question. If I have two actors and I need one of them to do ADR, how would I sync that to that one actor in post so the mouth and voice are in sync?
Nice explanation...
Thank you for this!!!
Is it record the ADR, dialogue by dialogue? Or can record the whole dialogue at the scene in one time?
I wish I was this good at ADR. I did a bit in my latest video as a first try at this. It worked reasonable well for what my video content was about.
+thejunkman keep at it, you'll get better at it
Thanks. This video inspired me to think more about it and try some more.
That Casablanca twist. 🤣❤
I need to a ADR on a short film I have done. We were using a HNZ4 zoom mic and the output button was knocked so it was silent. Silly us.
+David Martin That sucks...
Well if you end up ADRing the whole thing - you might end up with a better mix than you had originally - just take your time and get it perfect :)
Filmmaker IQ I didi it. :0 In bits and it worked great. I suppose its best to know how to do ADR for future purposes.
Thank you 🔥🔥🔥
Why did you pan the voices left and right that much? To me this is just as off-putting. Because it sounds like i'm standing almost in the middle of the two, yet the picture tells me otherwise.
Other than that, i think your yt videos are very well done. Clean tone, informative with nice captions and well cut.
One tning i have learn with audio syncing visual with audio, even with gig footage. You can tell, if its miles second out. You can tell something it off
John have a look at Vocalign pro by synchroarts.
That's a hard pan! I love this video though.
That was so funny. What the hell is SnapChat :-D Awesome video.
Great video !!! Would that scene be fine if it was recorded with a boom microphone (if it wasn't for the fog machine noise) ?
merasanam It was recorded using a boom mic. Without the fog machine, it might have been okay but there's no way we could have gotten the intimate voice inflections that you could do with ADR.
Filmmaker IQ
Thanks for your reply. Is this what they typically do for movies to get great sound or the boom mic is preferred? Or perhaps is a matter of time and money... Also, if you could post another video just with the final result. It's great just to post on FB.
Yes, boom mic is essential for getting the microphone close the subject - but a lot of dialogue in films really is ADRed
ROFL at the end of that clip :) "what the hell's snapchat? Oh.. Oh!" Very good 😀
Such a funny Casablanca ending.