I was in the audience of SNL's dress rehearsal on October 25, 1975, just the third show (guest host: Rob Reiner). Waiting in line in front of me were these two men who kept saying "We wanna see stars!!!" In all that time Chevy, Gilda, and John could've passed by us, and we would never have known. Then I saw Jim Henson sign in at the desk, and told the two men in front of me, "That's Jim Henson, the man behind the Muppets". The two men immediately started shouting "Oh Mr. Henson! Mr. Henson!". Jim looked around to see where it was coming from, spotted them, smiled and waved at them, before he boarded the elevator. I'm sure it made those two guys' day!
@@AngerOfTheLand I really don't remember. It was almost 50 years ago. I do remember how excited I was to be in the audience, my very first experience with SNL (I had fallen asleep early before the first two shows!)
That was 50 years ago. The remaining people alive from that show and that audience ain't what it used to be. Here's to the 75th anniversary. Good luck.
The Muppets, Henson and Frank Oz have had a massively larger and enduring on popular culture than any other entities they once worked with or rejected by, even onto modern internet, where Kermit memes are still used.
I was all of 6 years old back when the muppets debuted on SNL. I was to become a card carrying member of the muppets fan club and I remember how excited the newsletters I’d get told me Jim was about the release of “The Dark Crystal”. Unfortunately, the film went on to gross an estimated $26 at the box office & Jim never seemed the same after that set back. I remember how sad I was for him and how, in some way, it helped shaped my life. That’s when I learned of how disappointment can have its everlasting effects on each of us. Just a side note: “Dark Crystal” AND “Labrynth” are each great sci-fi stories! R.I.P., Mr. Henson. Your works entertained a lot of us & I know that was your dream all along. You should know that you did, sir. Good job! 🙏🏽👍
@lionheartd138 No, you heard me correctly. I was being sarcastic but 26 dollars is not a bad estimate. “Dark Crystal” was an utter failure at the box office and practically nobody saw it upon its release. ✌️
I can recall going to seeing it at the theater and it was almost empty. The few people that were there, I could tell didnt seem to like it. I enjoyed it but the story leaves one feeling unsatisfied for some reason. I think part of the problem was that the design for the main characters, in attempting to achieve a more realistic look, their faces were far less expressive than a more soft, typical Muppet tends to be. The audience not feeling empathetic towards the main characters, may have been part of the problem. The Netflix original series was a far more compelling story and received critical acclaim.
@ Very good critique. You captured the essence of “Dark Crystal”’s struggle and eventual success. I, too, feel that Jim concentrated on the muppet aspect of the film more than on the actual story and human factor. Had Mr. Henson been more focused on the overall story I think the movie could’ve been successful (like the use of Yoda in “Empire..”!). That seems to be the case with the later tv presentation of “Dark Crystal”. Thanks for your insight! ✌️
@@JosephMartin-sj3kz Are you sure it wasn't Labyrinth that was the box-office failure? The Dark Crystal made $40 million in the U.S. and $60 million internationally.
@@ONEFATE9 Still, the “more mature audience” of SNL that Jim was eager to entertain wasn’t so “wasted” as to not question what the muppets had to do with what was a highly politically geared show. I so love Mr. Henson but I can’t see the muppets being so low brow as to be as (I think) blunt as Lorne Michaels wanted them to be. I actually think the “land of Gorch” was Jim’s way of protesting such exploitations. He was just that sly a kind of guy! 👍✌️
Yeah, I've searched before and there are no clips, (or dang few), anywhere, apparently. When you google SNL Muppets, there's plenty of puppetry examples from the show, but no 'Gorch'. Of course, it's been a while since I searched, maybe the stuff is more visible now.
I was still living in England at the time & my whole family (husband, son, daughter) were agog with excitement. And The Muppet Show did not disappoint. In fact, it had a profound effect on English life, an effect that had not been experienced since the overwhelming success of the post-war "Goon Show" on radio, which shaped British anarchic humour for years to come. I think the Muppets had been on for half a series when they had to put back the show time from 5p to 5.30p because employers were complaining of all the adult workers (office, factory, etc) sluffing off early so they could be home in time for the programme (no DVRs, not many VCRs) That had happened with the Goons but not since then (30 years later?) Yeah, we Brits know a good thing when we see it! : D
18:08 - I remember. I was there on that first night with three buddies one of whom was celebrating a birthday after midnight. We liked the Gorch/Gortch segment and did note that it was... different... from the rest of the show...
I remember my family and I used to watch The Muppet Show, as well as their subsequent productions, including Sesame Street, 1989's The Jim Henson Hour, 1991's Dinosaurs, 1996's Muppets Tonight, and 2015's The Muppets, as well as their various movies. I love how the humor often varied in tone, whether it was the simple humor of kid-friendly shows, such as Sesame Street, or the more mature humor of shows, such as The Muppet Show. Their legacy will always live on. We'll miss you, Jim Henson.
The Muppets is tied with Dinosaurs in my house for best of his work. Best songs adds Labyrinth to the mix. Did you ever see Jim Henson's Story Teller? I have mixed feelings about that show. They are often very creepy but at the same time some really stick with you. I enjoyed them the first time but on future watches it becomes that battle of creepy to too much creepy. He really got what he wanted from the productions. If I need a hard fast detox, there's always Emmet Otter's Jug Band Christmas, that's as far away from creepy as you can get.
I loved Gorch and don't consider it a failure at all. I can remember sitting around with friends laughing our asses off watching it. I think it was all about expectations and the collective enhanced minds of the audience. Ours was very enhanced.
Trust me. For all the stürm und drang, the Land of Gortch segments were comedy gold back in the day - especially Skred, the King, and the Great Pavoo - were hilarious.
I loved the Muppet sections on SNL when they originally aired. I was around 13 or 14 years old and consider them to be a highlight of most early SNL episodes.
What did you think of the movie? There are no good reviews for it, none trashing it, but no one thought it really worked right either. I loved the trailer and the concept, but the number one complaint is too fast, too furious and some say not funny, while others did laugh. What's your input?
@@TheRadioAteMyTVit’s a pretty solid biopic with some excellent performances. Occasionally it does try a little too hard to take cues from Birdman and Steve Jobs, but when it works it really works well.
@@harvey3rdman464 Yeah, but Michael O Donohue wasn't nearly as funny as HE thought he was. I watched the show back then and there were a lot of crickets in that audience in between the great bits.
@@oneammondayJane Curtain years ago when SNL was coming out on DVD. She watched it with her family. And she was like there is a whole lot of not funny going on.
The Muppet Show was an important part of my childhood. I remember watching it every week. I was too young for SNL, but you bet I always caught The Muppet Show.
I loved the Land of Gorch and the bent humor of it. But then, I loved the inch worm and I've grown accustomed to your face bits that preceded them by many years.
Also '70s SNL writing was all rough edges and mostly hasn't aged well (not for being politically incorrect or whatever, just for having a feel of "you had to be there" (and I love The Marx Brothers so it's not like there's an expiration date on good comedy, SNL just wasn't putting out much of it back then))
Very informative, indeed revelatory, and timely video! Thank you, Mr. Thompson! Although somewhat disheartening, it is great to learn what happened here in the early days of SNL! I had forgotten that Jim Henson and these new Muppet characters were originally part of the SNL show when it debuted, and I didn't know any of these details of how incompatible, and often contentious, circumstances led to the discontinuance of an otherwise good plan. (I admit, though, I personally find the designs of some of the Gorch characters to be a little less than, um, "easy on the eyes", not all that engaging and sympathetic in their appearance, which I wonder if it could have made a difference in the Muppet creation's success....or rather lack of....) Regarding the "failure" of Gorch on SNL, I feel a sincere heartbreak for Mr. Henson and his colleagues whom I know were very dedicated and put a lot of effort into this show as they do in all their work. I have always believed in Mr. Henson's philosophy; it is exemplary and often under-appreciated. At the very least, he had a great show all his own later, then, and maybe it was meant to be that way....
This happened in the 80s. My friend and I were at the mall when we were approached by some ladies taking a survey. It was on the subject of religions. One question concerned denominations, and which ones we belonged to. I grinned and said I was a Favogist. My friend said the same. We went on a riff about the tenets of Favogism for quite a while. The survey lady asked about offerings, and I grinned. “It’ll cost you.”
As a audience member. You could instantly see and feel a difference in puppetry and puppets in movies and TV after Jim's passing. It was like the magic died with him. His kids took everything in a weird direction that completely turned me off. And seeing the Jim Henson studio name became a reason to avoid movies rather than making an effort to go to a movie. They wanted to show they weren't their father so bad, that they ended up alienating me and probably others as well. It's like seeing the Disney name today. All you can think of is what that name used to mean. Because it holds none of that emotion and meaning today.
My parents let me stay up late on Saturday nights so I very clearly remember The Land Of Gorch and I still occasionally watch it here on YT. The similarities to the Muppets I knew from Sesame Street was actually enough for me to be entertained by it even if I was a bit too young then to get all the jokes, and I missed the segments when they ended. It's unfortunate though that Henson wasn't allowed to write for his own creation though. A setup like that was doomed from the start
I remember watching the Muppets on SNL. I was a Junior in high school and I still think the Muppets were better than the cast of SNL during SNL's first year.
Amazing to learn the whole story about how the Muppet show came to be. Also I had tried to do research about 'Land of Gorch' but for years had found so little I had given up.
This was incredibly well done, and here’s hoping this channel pops off! Looks like a couple of your videos were scooped up into the algorithm, and this video made it to my recommends, so hopefully this one does well for you too. Excellent work, man. I can’t wait to dig into more of your stuff, especially the Celebration series, which looks criminally under-viewed. Good luck, and keep up the good work! You got at least one more sub out of me!
It's not that hard to say The Land of Gorch was far ahead of it's time, being essentially an unintentional prototype for adult animation in later decades. In a way, you could say it was the first TRUE adult animated show, even though it wasn't animated. Of course, this was back in a day and age when animation (and puppets) were still seen as _exclusively_ for children, so it's unsurprising that everyone who worked on SNL frowned upon Jim Henson's work, seeing him as an "outsider". It makes me wonder if after The Muppet Show's success, the SNL writers, actors and executives who worked on the show during the Gorch days looked back and said "You know, maybe we were too hard on that Henson guy."
Mmm, I don't know. I think they are alike in that they were both trying to _re_ establish themselves as grown up entertainment. Early animation was often rather weird and violent. They used to show cartoons along with newsreels and shorts and two features at a night at the movies. And you can find lots of cartoons encouraging people to buy war bonds, pay taxes, etc. Even telling soldiers who liberated France to use condoms, though of course a lot of them were indeed teenagers. Somewhere along the line cartoons became mostly kids stuff; I think the peak of that attitude was the 1980s between Flintstones and Simpsons. Same thing seems to have happened with puppetry, on a different timeline. Though of course the first Muppets pitched coffee and Henson never thought of himself as a kid's entertainer. That was already probably pretty innovative and unusual at the time.
Darn shame the SNL muppets didn't work out. And hardly the first time puppets were used as adult entertainment. At least they gave it a try, and the glass eyes were genius. Thanks for the video!!!
Since my childhood I always wanted to be able to have free reign in Henson's Creature Shop, not sure why they haven't opened a Henson's Creature Shop Store anywhere, at least in one of the parks would be nice. Have it just like the Build-A-Bear stores where you can go and customize your own Muppet to take home, I can't see it being too expensive to build one, it's mainly just foam pieces.
I got a hold of the first 5 seasons a few years ago. Always was a big Akyroyd fan and it was pretty cool to see his beginnings. History around all of that is cool. Drunk Stoned Brilliant Dead (Documentary) and A Futile and Stupid Gesture (Saturday Night 2024 style recreation) are a good insight into how snl came to be.
Thanks for this wonderful video! I was around back then and watching SNL and later The Muppet Show, but for some reason I don't remember the Land of Gorch.
I recognize that the land of Gorch is similar to the Dark crystal and the gorgs from Fraggle rock. For Dark crystal, unpleasant beings scheming against each other who rule over a wasteland. The designs of some of the inhabitants also look similar to some of the skeksis. For Fraggle rock, that gorgs and gorch is similar to each other and are bombastic royals. As well as consulting an animated inanimate object for advice. I guess that creators do recycle ideas and in Henson's case, recycle ideas into something that works.
Somebody on another video went mad over the term skit instead of sketch. I didn't know there was a difference, but it tuns out there are big differences. A skit is improv with no costumes or sets and a sketch is the opposite, a script, costumes and sets and are often done with follow ups (Pigs in Space, the dance sequence, Rowlf on Piano, the news segment). Both are short and that's about all they have in common. So now when I see this video and I keep hearing skit when he means sketch, great, now I am going mad about it. The more you know the more annoyed you can get. LOL!
I have to oddly agree with Jim Hensen, puppets were popular for a long long time in UK television. We had kids shows using puppets right up until the 2010s, a few political satire shows used exaggerated puppets to mock politicians, and even two comedy musicians that represented the UK and Ireland in Eurovision.
I remember The Muppets on SNL and I thought they were funny. I’ve asked a lot of people if they remember The Muppets on the show…..so far no one remembers. But I do!
I remember seeing those segments on the reruns of the early-season shows; very interesting but very weird. The style of the humour didn't quite jibe with the rest of the show however, so one can see why they didn't last long. (Also, some of the cast-members really didn't care for them; Belushi for example _hated_ them & was quite vocal in his disapproval of them.) Still, it was an interesting experiment, kind of laying the groundwork for Henson's later work on project such as "Dark Crystal."
It was something we looked forward to every week and never missed. The next time that happened to the same extent and the last time it ever will was with Seinfeld. Early seasons of All in the Family probably had a similar effect, but I was too young to be aware of it until well into its run.
It's so sad this and other adult-aimed puppet shows like Wondershowzen don't last very long 😢 at least we'll always have Avenue Q! (PS Im honestly so shocked at how few likes this has?? You have such high quality for such a small channel! Its giving short-form Down the Rabbit Hole)
Yonderdland only got 2 seasons too, and we talking those tiny BBC seasons, not American 24 episode seasons. They went on to do Ghosts, which is also a great show, but Yonderland had some great stuff in it.
I did watch the movie yesterday, and while I knew about the discord with the writers and how he wanted to appeal to everyone, I don't think how overprotective of his puppets was accurate. Frank Oz said one of the things he liked about Jim is that he wasn't one of those people who delicately put his puppets in a case, he'd sometimes throw them in a corner. Plus, I recall his children would use some of those puppets pieces for costumes as children.
Mikey had imagination even back then. From what footage I've seen of the Land of Gorch, it's a shame that it didn't come about in a better situation where it could be treated right, because the designs are fantastic. In the end it did rather work out with him finally getting The Muppet Show, but Gorch deserved a real go of it's own.
@@NewSonyWonderHappyMadisonFan I think that a big problem with the Land of Gorch was that the Muppets were not compatible with SNL's style of comedy, right?
I feel like they were onto something with the Henson Alternative. Still Henson just more of the original sex and violence vibes. Really hope they do more of that sort of thing. Happy time murders had so much potential.
I mean, really. They could have tried pressuring the WGA into letting Jim bring his friend Jerry Jules to write for the segments, or even asked the studio to hire new writers just for the Land Of Gorch, with Jules serving as a consultant. Instead, they just bitched and moaned. Well at least Jim got the last laugh, as the Muppets have managed to stay culturally relevant decades after his passing.
George Lucas went to Frank Oz for his puppetry arts technical skills in creating 'Yoda' . That & other movies,TV shows proves that muppet art can be valuable in story telling. Movies like 'Empire' & 'Neverending Story' showed & proved that.😮😅😂. LOL.
The Muppets as a troupe probably would have been better off doing the kind of variety sketches that they were known for, rather than a concept like Gorch. While the characters are fun to look at, I don't know how you sustain a sketch like that over the long term and keep it interesting.
No mention of Fraggle Rock .... Wasn't Henson involved with that show also? Also the muppet like characters in the movie Labryth (sp?) with David Bowie were pretty muppetlike also...
I was a child then so am old now but MISTER BILL WAS HILARIOUS maybe that's just 12 yo humor but holy shit it was epic watching that clueless little fucker get had. Take home lesson: don't be naive!
Problem with the Muppets as adult themed entertainment on SNL was that so many of us had grown up with the Muppets on Sesame Street. There was an underlying sweetness and warmth to that puppet form that made satire difficult to pull off.
Curious as to if the contract Henson signed included that he would not write the script for the segment. Hard to believe that he missed that clause. The puppet segments of SNL seemed out of place. This story somehow diminishes all involved.
I remember The Dark Crystal. I watched it alone as a latch-key kid. It perturbed me. I didn't like it, but they showed it about 10 times a day on the HBO. HBO ruined Poltergeist and Goodfella's the same way. How many times can I watch the same movie? Very few more than once.
I had gotten the season 1 dvd's of snl and watched through the whole series and quickly became disappointed with the land of gorch segments. Just very boring. But I remember the last 2 segments perhaps, they started making them more sillier and suddenly it felt like I was watching the muppets! It was interesting seeing that change and know seeing that was cause Jim was able to help write them
As a teenager, I thought the Gorch stuff was just awful, perfectly unfunny. It was nothing like the Muppets humor seen on The Ed Sullivan Show and The Jimmy Dean Show, and Sesame Street. It was completely witless. Now I know why.
Shame that they've never given Gorch a reboot. Like more of SNL than not, it desperately wanted to be funny, but it usually wasn't. It could work with a different set of writers.
I love Jim Henson and rewatched the first season recently. Wow...what little momentum those early episodes could muster came to a screeching halt during these segments. It just didn't fit. It's like if you dropped Death Row Follies, but written by Milton Berle, into the middle of an episode of The Muppet Show.
I was in the audience of SNL's dress rehearsal on October 25, 1975, just the third show (guest host: Rob Reiner). Waiting in line in front of me were these two men who kept saying "We wanna see stars!!!" In all that time Chevy, Gilda, and John could've passed by us, and we would never have known. Then I saw Jim Henson sign in at the desk, and told the two men in front of me, "That's Jim Henson, the man behind the Muppets". The two men immediately started shouting "Oh Mr. Henson! Mr. Henson!". Jim looked around to see where it was coming from, spotted them, smiled and waved at them, before he boarded the elevator. I'm sure it made those two guys' day!
I love these kinds of stories!
Lucky. Just watched that episode yesterday. What was your thoughts when Reiner came out the way he did?
@@AngerOfTheLand I really don't remember. It was almost 50 years ago. I do remember how excited I was to be in the audience, my very first experience with SNL (I had fallen asleep early before the first two shows!)
That was 50 years ago. The remaining people alive from that show and that audience ain't what it used to be. Here's to the 75th anniversary. Good luck.
When snl was first announced, the muppets were promoted as the stars
The last laugh is that the Muppets have outlasted the careers of a lot of the SNL cast of that era
The Muppets in general continued but Ploobis, Peuta, Wiss, Scred, Vazh, and the Mighty Favog all got ditched and forgotten.
The Muppets, Henson and Frank Oz have had a massively larger and enduring on popular culture than any other entities they once worked with or rejected by, even onto modern internet, where Kermit memes are still used.
"impact on popular culture"
@@LandondeeL not on the android phone I have
I was all of 6 years old back when the muppets debuted on SNL. I was to become a card carrying member of the muppets fan club and I remember how excited the newsletters I’d get told me Jim was about the release of “The Dark Crystal”. Unfortunately, the film went on to gross an estimated $26 at the box office & Jim never seemed the same after that set back.
I remember how sad I was for him and how, in some way, it helped shaped my life. That’s when I learned of how disappointment can have its everlasting effects on each of us.
Just a side note: “Dark Crystal” AND “Labrynth” are each great sci-fi stories!
R.I.P., Mr. Henson. Your works entertained a lot of us & I know that was your dream all along. You should know that you did, sir. Good job! 🙏🏽👍
26 dollars? did you mean 26 million dollars?
@lionheartd138 No, you heard me correctly. I was being sarcastic but 26 dollars is not a bad estimate. “Dark Crystal” was an utter failure at the box office and practically nobody saw it upon its release. ✌️
I can recall going to seeing it at the theater and it was almost empty. The few people that were there, I could tell didnt seem to like it. I enjoyed it but the story leaves one feeling unsatisfied for some reason. I think part of the problem was that the design for the main characters, in attempting to achieve a more realistic look, their faces were far less expressive than a more soft, typical Muppet tends to be. The audience not feeling empathetic towards the main characters, may have been part of the problem. The Netflix original series was a far more compelling story and received critical acclaim.
@ Very good critique. You captured the essence of “Dark Crystal”’s struggle and eventual success. I, too, feel that Jim concentrated on the muppet aspect of the film more than on the actual story and human factor.
Had Mr. Henson been more focused on the overall story I think the movie could’ve been successful (like the use of Yoda in “Empire..”!). That seems to be the case with the later tv presentation of “Dark Crystal”.
Thanks for your insight! ✌️
@@JosephMartin-sj3kz Are you sure it wasn't Labyrinth that was the box-office failure? The Dark Crystal made $40 million in the U.S. and $60 million internationally.
I saw "Land of Gorch" segments on SNL years ago. If they would have given Henson and his crew total control of the writing, it would have been a hit!
They weren't part of the WGA. They were not allowed to be at the time.
@@graydenday3760A damn shame
Not with SNL fans …totally different vibe
@@ApothecaryGrant Beg to differ
@@ONEFATE9 Still, the “more mature audience” of SNL that Jim was eager to entertain wasn’t so “wasted” as to not question what the muppets had to do with what was a highly politically geared show. I so love Mr. Henson but I can’t see the muppets being so low brow as to be as (I think) blunt as Lorne Michaels wanted them to be.
I actually think the “land of Gorch” was Jim’s way of protesting such exploitations. He was just that sly a kind of guy! 👍✌️
The look of hatred on Belushi's face when that Muppet patted his face is priceless, lol.
Wow! I remember seeing that episode and it looked like Belushi was about to get in a fight with the King Flubus.
It took me almost forty years, but the algorithm finally led me to the fabled Land of Gorch.
Yeah, I've searched before and there are no clips, (or dang few), anywhere, apparently. When you google SNL Muppets, there's plenty of puppetry examples from the show, but no 'Gorch'. Of course, it's been a while since I searched, maybe the stuff is more visible now.
Been a fan forever and never knew about their ABC specials, thanks for making this.
We absolutely loved The Land of Gorch! We tuned in every week mainly to watch it!
It always blows my mind that the Muppets was effectively a British TV show...
It was technically a British-American co-production.
Man, this is some 'memory unlocked' stuff right here.
Finally!!! I remember Muppets being on SNL. Now I have the proof. Thankyou
I was still living in England at the time & my whole family (husband, son, daughter) were agog with excitement. And The Muppet Show did not disappoint. In fact, it had a profound effect on English life, an effect that had not been experienced since the overwhelming success of the post-war "Goon Show" on radio, which shaped British anarchic humour for years to come. I think the Muppets had been on for half a series when they had to put back the show time from 5p to 5.30p because employers were complaining of all the adult workers (office, factory, etc) sluffing off early so they could be home in time for the programme (no DVRs, not many VCRs) That had happened with the Goons but not since then (30 years later?) Yeah, we Brits know a good thing when we see it! : D
18:08 - I remember. I was there on that first night with three buddies one of whom was celebrating a birthday after midnight. We liked the Gorch/Gortch segment and did note that it was... different... from the rest of the show...
I remember my family and I used to watch The Muppet Show, as well as their subsequent productions, including Sesame Street, 1989's The Jim Henson Hour, 1991's Dinosaurs, 1996's Muppets Tonight, and 2015's The Muppets, as well as their various movies. I love how the humor often varied in tone, whether it was the simple humor of kid-friendly shows, such as Sesame Street, or the more mature humor of shows, such as The Muppet Show. Their legacy will always live on. We'll miss you, Jim Henson.
The Muppets is tied with Dinosaurs in my house for best of his work. Best songs adds Labyrinth to the mix.
Did you ever see Jim Henson's Story Teller? I have mixed feelings about that show. They are often very creepy but at the same time some really stick with you. I enjoyed them the first time but on future watches it becomes that battle of creepy to too much creepy. He really got what he wanted from the productions. If I need a hard fast detox, there's always Emmet Otter's Jug Band Christmas, that's as far away from creepy as you can get.
People sleep on the 2015 Muppets show. The humor was hit or miss sometimes but when it hit, it was great
Sesame Street came before The Muppet Show.
Very good video essay, man! Solid work, im definitely subscribing.
Thank you!
I loved Gorch and don't consider it a failure at all. I can remember sitting around with friends laughing our asses off watching it. I think it was all about expectations and the collective enhanced minds of the audience. Ours was very enhanced.
Muppets AND Disney on one TH-cam channel? Oh, I’m in heaven. Can’t wait for the fourth episode of your King series, and for many more new topics too!!
Trust me. For all the stürm und drang, the Land of Gortch segments were comedy gold back in the day - especially Skred, the King, and the Great Pavoo - were hilarious.
I loved Loved LOVED The Land of Gorch!
I loved the Muppet sections on SNL when they originally aired. I was around 13 or 14 years old and consider them to be a highlight of most early SNL episodes.
this was a great watch as i just saw the movie saturday night a few days ago! thank you for your time and energy on this.
Thanks for watching!
What did you think of the movie? There are no good reviews for it, none trashing it, but no one thought it really worked right either. I loved the trailer and the concept, but the number one complaint is too fast, too furious and some say not funny, while others did laugh. What's your input?
@@TheRadioAteMyTVit’s a pretty solid biopic with some excellent performances. Occasionally it does try a little too hard to take cues from Birdman and Steve Jobs, but when it works it really works well.
Very interesting story - I didn’t realize that Jim Henson had a recurring muppet segment on a season of SNL.
_"I don't write for felt..."_ Michael O Donohue writer for Saturday Night
@@harvey3rdman464 Yeah, but Michael O Donohue wasn't nearly as funny as HE thought he was. I watched the show back then and there were a lot of crickets in that audience in between the great bits.
@@oneammonday he was better as a writer for National Lampoons.
His son (Henson) is so fucked up. It’s kinda hilarious seeing an Octopus jerking-off a Cow. That movie sucked because the younger puppet is done.
@@oneammondayJane Curtain years ago when SNL was coming out on DVD. She watched it with her family. And she was like there is a whole lot of not funny going on.
The Muppet Show was an important part of my childhood. I remember watching it every week. I was too young for SNL, but you bet I always caught The Muppet Show.
I loved the Land of Gorch and the bent humor of it. But then, I loved the inch worm and I've grown accustomed to your face bits that preceded them by many years.
I could have told them SNL could never write for Muppets. The Muppets have a classy vaudeville feel, and SNL was more postmodern and edgy
Feels weird saying the muppets are to classy for SNL but it’s true lol
If you can't write for what your client wants, then you aren't a writer. You're just good at writing about you.
I could've seen the other classic late night ensemble sketch show of those times, SCTV, writing the Muppets perfectly in an alternate TV timeline
Also '70s SNL writing was all rough edges and mostly hasn't aged well (not for being politically incorrect or whatever, just for having a feel of "you had to be there" (and I love The Marx Brothers so it's not like there's an expiration date on good comedy, SNL just wasn't putting out much of it back then))
01:10 how sweet to see Jim and his kids, I think that's his wife(?) .The Jim Henson likeness puppet gave me a chuckle.
Very informative, indeed revelatory, and timely video! Thank you, Mr. Thompson!
Although somewhat disheartening, it is great to learn what happened here in the early days of SNL!
I had forgotten that Jim Henson and these new Muppet characters were originally part of the SNL show when it debuted, and I didn't know any of these details of how incompatible, and often contentious, circumstances led to the discontinuance of an otherwise good plan.
(I admit, though, I personally find the designs of some of the Gorch characters to be a little less than, um, "easy on the eyes", not all that engaging and sympathetic in their appearance, which I wonder if it could have made a difference in the Muppet creation's success....or rather lack of....)
Regarding the "failure" of Gorch on SNL, I feel a sincere heartbreak for Mr. Henson and his colleagues whom I know were very dedicated and put a lot of effort into this show as they do in all their work. I have always believed in Mr. Henson's philosophy; it is exemplary and often under-appreciated.
At the very least, he had a great show all his own later, then, and maybe it was meant to be that way....
This happened in the 80s. My friend and I were at the mall when we were approached by some ladies taking a survey. It was on the subject of religions. One question concerned denominations, and which ones we belonged to. I grinned and said I was a Favogist. My friend said the same. We went on a riff about the tenets of Favogism for quite a while. The survey lady asked about offerings, and I grinned. “It’ll cost you.”
As a audience member. You could instantly see and feel a difference in puppetry and puppets in movies and TV after Jim's passing. It was like the magic died with him. His kids took everything in a weird direction that completely turned me off. And seeing the Jim Henson studio name became a reason to avoid movies rather than making an effort to go to a movie. They wanted to show they weren't their father so bad, that they ended up alienating me and probably others as well.
It's like seeing the Disney name today. All you can think of is what that name used to mean. Because it holds none of that emotion and meaning today.
My parents let me stay up late on Saturday nights so I very clearly remember The Land Of Gorch and I still occasionally watch it here on YT. The similarities to the Muppets I knew from Sesame Street was actually enough for me to be entertained by it even if I was a bit too young then to get all the jokes, and I missed the segments when they ended. It's unfortunate though that Henson wasn't allowed to write for his own creation though. A setup like that was doomed from the start
Nice! Thank you! I’d been wondering about this for most of my life.
I remember watching the Muppets on SNL. I was a Junior in high school and I still think the Muppets were better than the cast of SNL during SNL's first year.
I was 13 yrs old, and thought the whole show(SNL) was amazing.
I loved Gorch! Scred was my favorite
Amazing to learn the whole story about how the Muppet show came to be. Also I had tried to do research about 'Land of Gorch' but for years had found so little I had given up.
You can squint and almost see the Skeksis. 7:20
I’m getting one tattooed soon.its going right beside my Big Trouble in Little China tattoo
It's an interesting insight into Henson's psyche that when given creative free rein he would return to these dark grim story settings.
Awesome!!!
This was incredibly well done, and here’s hoping this channel pops off! Looks like a couple of your videos were scooped up into the algorithm, and this video made it to my recommends, so hopefully this one does well for you too. Excellent work, man. I can’t wait to dig into more of your stuff, especially the Celebration series, which looks criminally under-viewed. Good luck, and keep up the good work! You got at least one more sub out of me!
Thank you so much! I hope you enjoy my Celebration documentary.
It's not that hard to say The Land of Gorch was far ahead of it's time, being essentially an unintentional prototype for adult animation in later decades. In a way, you could say it was the first TRUE adult animated show, even though it wasn't animated. Of course, this was back in a day and age when animation (and puppets) were still seen as _exclusively_ for children, so it's unsurprising that everyone who worked on SNL frowned upon Jim Henson's work, seeing him as an "outsider".
It makes me wonder if after The Muppet Show's success, the SNL writers, actors and executives who worked on the show during the Gorch days looked back and said "You know, maybe we were too hard on that Henson guy."
I used to enjoy this on SNL. Jim was right, Muppetry is still like animation was in the earliest days. Struggling to break out into adult viewing...
Mmm, I don't know. I think they are alike in that they were both trying to _re_ establish themselves as grown up entertainment. Early animation was often rather weird and violent. They used to show cartoons along with newsreels and shorts and two features at a night at the movies. And you can find lots of cartoons encouraging people to buy war bonds, pay taxes, etc. Even telling soldiers who liberated France to use condoms, though of course a lot of them were indeed teenagers. Somewhere along the line cartoons became mostly kids stuff; I think the peak of that attitude was the 1980s between Flintstones and Simpsons. Same thing seems to have happened with puppetry, on a different timeline. Though of course the first Muppets pitched coffee and Henson never thought of himself as a kid's entertainer. That was already probably pretty innovative and unusual at the time.
Bernie Brillstein was a legendary agent and producer, and strangely enough was both Lorne Michaels and Jim Henson's agent.
Darn shame the SNL muppets didn't work out. And hardly the first time puppets were used as adult entertainment. At least they gave it a try, and the glass eyes were genius. Thanks for the video!!!
No one can do Kermit's voice like Jim Henson. The day he died, Kermit died, too!
Since my childhood I always wanted to be able to have free reign in Henson's Creature Shop, not sure why they haven't opened a Henson's Creature Shop Store anywhere, at least in one of the parks would be nice.
Have it just like the Build-A-Bear stores where you can go and customize your own Muppet to take home, I can't see it being too expensive to build one, it's mainly just foam pieces.
That would actually be so cool
Fantastic Job
Gosh I loved those puppets back in the day, such good stuff.
Gorch reminds me of The Bog of Eternal Stench in The Labyrinth 😆
I got a hold of the first 5 seasons a few years ago. Always was a big Akyroyd fan and it was pretty cool to see his beginnings. History around all of that is cool. Drunk Stoned Brilliant Dead (Documentary) and A Futile and Stupid Gesture (Saturday Night 2024 style recreation) are a good insight into how snl came to be.
Thanks for this wonderful video! I was around back then and watching SNL and later The Muppet Show, but for some reason I don't remember the Land of Gorch.
I always looked forward to the SNL Muppets. I was disappointed when they never showed up anymore.
I watched SNL pretty early, but I don't remember the Muppets ever being on SNL. That's fascinating!
I recognize that the land of Gorch is similar to the Dark crystal and the gorgs from Fraggle rock.
For Dark crystal, unpleasant beings scheming against each other who rule over a wasteland. The designs of some of the inhabitants also look similar to some of the skeksis.
For Fraggle rock, that gorgs and gorch is similar to each other and are bombastic royals. As well as consulting an animated inanimate object for advice.
I guess that creators do recycle ideas and in Henson's case, recycle ideas into something that works.
I always just imagined they all existed together in some strange world somewhere.
Saw Gorch on TV as a kid, and it blew my mind, i didn’t understand the humor at all, but i loved it.
Somebody on another video went mad over the term skit instead of sketch. I didn't know there was a difference, but it tuns out there are big differences. A skit is improv with no costumes or sets and a sketch is the opposite, a script, costumes and sets and are often done with follow ups (Pigs in Space, the dance sequence, Rowlf on Piano, the news segment). Both are short and that's about all they have in common. So now when I see this video and I keep hearing skit when he means sketch, great, now I am going mad about it. The more you know the more annoyed you can get. LOL!
You forgot to mention that Jim Henson first premiered on The Jimmy Dean Show.
I have to oddly agree with Jim Hensen, puppets were popular for a long long time in UK television.
We had kids shows using puppets right up until the 2010s, a few political satire shows used exaggerated puppets to mock politicians, and even two comedy musicians that represented the UK and Ireland in Eurovision.
Spitting Image is a hell of a show!
I remember The Muppets on SNL and I thought they were funny. I’ve asked a lot of people if they remember The Muppets on the show…..so far no one remembers. But I do!
I remember seeing those segments on the reruns of the early-season shows; very interesting but very weird. The style of the humour didn't quite jibe with the rest of the show however, so one can see why they didn't last long. (Also, some of the cast-members really didn't care for them; Belushi for example _hated_ them & was quite vocal in his disapproval of them.) Still, it was an interesting experiment, kind of laying the groundwork for Henson's later work on project such as "Dark Crystal."
I love the segment of SNL.
Oh, but I do remember The Land of Gorch from SNL. It was one of my favorite memories from the early SNL episodes.
Back when saturday night live was a great show
The Land of Gorch could work today, probably on somewhere like Adult Swim.
the valentine's special is lovely it's not really for littles but teenagers and up should get a laugh out of it.
The Muppet Show was one of the best.
It was something we looked forward to every week and never missed. The next time that happened to the same extent and the last time it ever will was with Seinfeld. Early seasons of All in the Family probably had a similar effect, but I was too young to be aware of it until well into its run.
It's so sad this and other adult-aimed puppet shows like Wondershowzen don't last very long 😢 at least we'll always have Avenue Q!
(PS Im honestly so shocked at how few likes this has?? You have such high quality for such a small channel! Its giving short-form Down the Rabbit Hole)
I thought of Avenue Q too as as soon as I read the intro. I hadn't thought of it before.
Yonderdland only got 2 seasons too, and we talking those tiny BBC seasons, not American 24 episode seasons. They went on to do Ghosts, which is also a great show, but Yonderland had some great stuff in it.
Don't forget about Crank Yankers. That show was hilarious.
Are likes that big a deal?
I remember the muppets on SNL, I watched them when they aired.
I did watch the movie yesterday, and while I knew about the discord with the writers and how he wanted to appeal to everyone, I don't think how overprotective of his puppets was accurate. Frank Oz said one of the things he liked about Jim is that he wasn't one of those people who delicately put his puppets in a case, he'd sometimes throw them in a corner. Plus, I recall his children would use some of those puppets pieces for costumes as children.
Looking forward to the SnL movie to see Hensons portrayal of this time!
they did a good job burying this fiasco
Mikey had imagination even back then. From what footage I've seen of the Land of Gorch, it's a shame that it didn't come about in a better situation where it could be treated right, because the designs are fantastic. In the end it did rather work out with him finally getting The Muppet Show, but Gorch deserved a real go of it's own.
with the new SNL movie coming out soon I wonder if they include this part of it's history.
They are.
@@NewSonyWonderHappyMadisonFan I think that a big problem with the Land of Gorch was that the Muppets were not compatible with SNL's style of comedy, right?
@@gamestation2690 Yeah. Also, what does this have to do with my comment and/or the comment it's meant to be a reply to outside of subject matter?
@@NewSonyWonderHappyMadisonFan Just thought I'd mention it, that's all.
Current Saturday Night Live is staffed to the gills with muppets
What great timing the snl origin story movie comes out today
I do remember the Gorch segments.
#DisneyDiva ❤
Rip Jim H❤
You know, I wish you could find all the episodes on youtube of gorge
Do an episode on fraggle rock. Please.
Loveee this
I didn't know they were in the muppet movie
I liked those Henson sketches.I also thought most of those Albert Brooks films were funny.
Has anybody pointed out that the main Muppet SNL character looks like he came from the film "Night of the Demon" (1957).
I feel like they were onto something with the Henson Alternative. Still Henson just more of the original sex and violence vibes. Really hope they do more of that sort of thing. Happy time murders had so much potential.
They set it up to fail with that dumb writing rule. Jim and his team couldn’t write it and the SNL writers didn’t want too.
I mean, really. They could have tried pressuring the WGA into letting Jim bring his friend Jerry Jules to write for the segments, or even asked the studio to hire new writers just for the Land Of Gorch, with Jules serving as a consultant. Instead, they just bitched and moaned. Well at least Jim got the last laugh, as the Muppets have managed to stay culturally relevant decades after his passing.
Could you see about doing something about the Muppets Take Manhattan for the 40th anniversary.
I actually remember this but had no clue what it was.
Same. I wouldn't have remembered it was on SNL, but I do remember it, even though I was only six years old.
George Lucas went to Frank Oz for his puppetry arts technical skills in creating 'Yoda' . That & other movies,TV shows proves that muppet art can be valuable in story telling. Movies like 'Empire' & 'Neverending Story' showed & proved that.😮😅😂. LOL.
Where can these shows be watched?
Officially they’re available on Peacock since they’re segments in the first episodes of SNL. But you can also find some of them on TH-cam
The Muppets as a troupe probably would have been better off doing the kind of variety sketches that they were known for, rather than a concept like Gorch. While the characters are fun to look at, I don't know how you sustain a sketch like that over the long term and keep it interesting.
Scred was the best! I can’t find videos of it
No mention of Fraggle Rock .... Wasn't Henson involved with that show also? Also the muppet like characters in the movie Labryth (sp?) with David Bowie were pretty muppetlike also...
Say what you will about Eisner (and there is quite a lot to be said lol) but if he likes The Muppets then his taste can't be all bad
I was a child then so am old now but MISTER BILL WAS HILARIOUS
maybe that's just 12 yo humor but holy shit it was epic watching that clueless little fucker get had.
Take home lesson: don't be naive!
Should have done them as subway dwellers, or sewer rats!
Problem with the Muppets as adult themed entertainment on SNL was that so many of us had grown up with the Muppets on Sesame Street. There was an underlying sweetness and warmth to that puppet form that made satire difficult to pull off.
Nope lol the Muppets have NEVER been kids only and always have been anarchist in their madness.
Curious as to if the contract Henson signed included that he would not write the script for the segment. Hard to believe that he missed that clause.
The puppet segments of SNL seemed out of place.
This story somehow diminishes all involved.
I remember The Dark Crystal. I watched it alone as a latch-key kid. It perturbed me. I didn't like it, but they showed it about 10 times a day on the HBO. HBO ruined Poltergeist and Goodfella's the same way. How many times can I watch the same movie? Very few more than once.
I had gotten the season 1 dvd's of snl and watched through the whole series and quickly became disappointed with the land of gorch segments. Just very boring. But I remember the last 2 segments perhaps, they started making them more sillier and suddenly it felt like I was watching the muppets! It was interesting seeing that change and know seeing that was cause Jim was able to help write them
I fucking love the Muppets.
As a teenager, I thought the Gorch stuff was just awful, perfectly unfunny. It was nothing like the Muppets humor seen on The Ed Sullivan Show and The Jimmy Dean Show, and Sesame Street. It was completely witless. Now I know why.
Shame that they've never given Gorch a reboot. Like more of SNL than not, it desperately wanted to be funny, but it usually wasn't. It could work with a different set of writers.
I love Jim Henson and rewatched the first season recently. Wow...what little momentum those early episodes could muster came to a screeching halt during these segments.
It just didn't fit. It's like if you dropped Death Row Follies, but written by Milton Berle, into the middle of an episode of The Muppet Show.
Maybe when Disney releases Song of The South on Blu-Ray
😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😅😅😅😅😅😅😮😮😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤