Brian Kenny walks us through Dale Murphy's accomplishments in MLB and gives some Cooperstown Justice on why he deserves to be voted in. mlbnetwork mlbnetwork mlbnetwork
7X All-Star, 5X Gold Glove, 4X Silver Slugger, Back2Back MVPs. His final couple seasons left a bad taste in voters' mouths. If he had made it 400 HR, probably gets voted in by the writers. His resume is more than adequate for induction.
Yes, I agree, especially with the 398 home runs. I grew up a Braves fan in the 80's. I remember at least two home runs of Murph's that did not count. One he hit in the early innings of a game that got rained out, and then another he hit against the Tigers in an exhibition Hall of Fame game in the middle of the season. There was no inter-league play then, but there is now, and that home run would have counted now. I can also remember a few where Murph's ball left the park, but some heroic outfield went over the wall and hauled it back in. So close to 400! And that number probably would have done the trick.
Nah Schilling did speak his mind and it’s his RIGHT!!!! And the HOF voters get to decide if the shit some of the weirdos say should get them barred and that is their Right!!!! And you have a right to bit*h about it because it’s your Right!!! So now do you see how that works? free speech doesn’t excuse accountability.
Yep, and he should be kept out for just sheer stupidity. He was dumb enough to criticize the people who vote for his induction before he got in. That’s like a presidential candidate criticizing potential voters during a campaign.
According to Bill James, Mantle DESERVED the MVP every year for the 9 year period 1954- 1962 .( Except 1959)As I pointed out in other comment I made to this video Murphy NEVER deserved an MVP ,in fact he was never even close .So can you tell me the 9 year period where Murphy DESERVED the MVP eight times? I am drawing a blank on that.Bill James had Mantle sixth greatest player ever ...Murphy not in top 100.Mantle was - at a time THE STRONGEST AND THE FASTEST player in the game .Are you going to claim that about Murphy? As you can see I strongly disagree with your perspective,but I hope you have a great day
@@fortynights1513 thanks for asking ...No he does not.If I were to try to quickly summarize my opinion,I would say he was overrated because of the ballpark he played in .Shortly Helton will make the Hall ....mostly same issue. You should not be elected to the Hall simply because you played your home games in a great hitters' s park.What is your perspective?
@@GregBanish-so6ztDidn’t know Fulton County Stadium was considered a hitters park. Either way, Murphy has a pretty darn good resume. Even with the swift career decline and shorter prime, he hit nearly 400 homers, made seven all star games, won two MVP’s, and won five gold gloves (I think it’s probably fair to consider him at least a decent fielder given his defensive metrics aren’t great but he won those accolades), and sabermetrically the baseball reference version of WAR finds him to be a top five player in the league three times and from sixth to tenth in a fourth season in his peak years, and even OPS+, the most prominent park adjusted batting metric (which likely would have punished him for being in a favorable park for hitters) finds Murphy to be top five at hitting for four of his peak years. If you don’t think Murphy played at a higher level for long enough, I could totally understand why you wouldn’t vote for him, but I would argue that his peak was an excellent one. I would put Murphy (as well as Don Mattingly who made this Era Committee ballot too) in a class a bit below Hall of Fame I call “Hall of Very Good”: Players who either had one of the best peaks at their position of any player who isn’t in Cooperstown or who made it to the end of their writer’s ballot eligibility (the latter of which those two did), along with a select few others who I think deserved more consideration than they ever got.
Best video you guys have put out in awhile!! My son was #3 for 15 years playing ball for Murphy!! If he and Andruw Jones and McGriff get in I will be extremely happy!!!
Mattingly was thee best hitter in Baseball for 4 straight years. I remember those years being 55. I remember everyone trying to find Mattinglys rookie card...not Dale Murphys lol. Murphy shouldnt have been MVP either year. Mattingly should have win it 3 straight years.
It’s great Murphy and Mattingly were great for 6-8 years. Not enough to get in the Hall. It’s the Hall of Fame not the Hall of Great or pretty good which is where those 2 fit looking at their entire career. Gold Glives turn out to be popularity contests that include offensive numbers for some reason at times. That’s how Palmiero got one playing DH most of that season. Brian K is an idiot who love good careers and thinks they deserve more credit than they should get. Of course I say that and Harold Baines got in, but he had lots of friends on that committee. He getting in was a joke.
Yankees fan here, grew up hating the braves, but dale Murphy’s exclusion was a crime BACK THEN, on par with Gil Hodges (actual murder, still not over it). There’s no discussion, DM was GREAT
But he pretty much did what McGuire did.....without steroids...that is incredible. What do you think did him in injuries at the end? He fell off fast after like 87 or 88 it seemed -- someplace in there
Hee went against their narrative, and NO ONE dares question that. But I vaguely remember Schilling saying that it wouldn't bother him if he is never elected. He would rather speak his mind than sell his soul. I respect that.
I am of the mind to take guys who were the best players in the league like Dale Murphy, Mattingly, etc for a good 5-6 year run rather than some "compilers" who were just around a very long time and were good players but nothing more. Longevity certainly plays a part but guys like Murphy and Mattingly meant more to the game than a lot of other guys that are in the HOF currently. Glad to see Mcgriff finally got in. He was low key and narrowly missed the 500 HR mark so they kept him out for years even though he was a monster batting in the post season too.
Very valid points, Mr. Kenny - especially the part about who should be "rewarded" and who should not. We're talking Cooperstown here - the day the juicers start getting in, the institution loses all credibility to me.
And you know what....I watched baseball then. Dale Murphy was a lot better than Mattingly. There for 3 or 4 years in the 1980's....Dale Murphy was one of the best players..........EVER. Look at his stats
The real con for Dale Murphy for getting in the hall of fame is a tremendous and sustained drop in batting average after the 1987 season. There are many ball players that have five year runs of top performing stats in MLB history that are not in the Hall of Fame but I think most have no where near a tail spin in batting average.
I tend to have stricter personal standards when it comes to who I think should be a HOF player. To me, he needs to be a dominant player for a long period of time. Guys like Ruth, Mays, Musial, Young, as well as modern guys like Boggs, Carew, Johnson, etc. That said, since I'm not the one who selects players, I am much more inclined to agree with guys like Murphy and Mattingly being in the Hall than guys like Baines and Simmons You can have a guy who compiles career numbers and yet was not dominant, like Baines (and I'm a White Sox fan, he was a favorite of mine growing up). Murphy, however, was just a scary hitter; he was to hitting what Koufax was to pitching, I think. So based on that criteria, I would have zero problem with Murphy being selected. Even his down year of 1986 was a solid year. I suspect that if he would have had one more year like 1983 or 1984, (say, for example, he had numbers in 1988 like he did in 1983), he would have been selected a long time ago.
If Murphy played in the 90s and 2000s, we probably don’t have this discussion and probably isn’t an afterthought in the hall of fame discussion with all the numbers jacked as they were. But the era he playmates in, deserves to be in.
Why did you choose the 1982-87 range? Because Murphy wasn't worth much after that. So his peak was pretty short. He was very good, but not great. Nothing wrong with that. Put him in the Hall of Very Good with Orel Hershiser and guys like that.
@@gameshows5973 There’s no doubt that during Murphy’s prime, he was one of the best players in the game. There’s no dispute about his productivity at the time, but we have to take a look at the entirety of his career. By simply omitting the latter part of his career just to make a HOF case for him is incredibly disingenuous. It wasn’t as if it was a gradual decline, it fell off a cliff. By the time the 80s ended, the Braves looked smart in trading Murphy to the Phillies. He wasn’t close to being the two-time MVP that he was in Atlanta. I’m sorry to say, just because a player had an incredible peak doesn’t mean they should go to Cooperstown. Brian Kenny is dead wrong here. To be honest, I’d make a stronger case for Lou Whitaker.
Any real baseball fan should know Dale Murphy is the largest omission from the HOF roster. Harold Baines? Scott Rolen? Bruce Sutter? Gary Carter? Get out of here with that and put #3 in Cooperstown where he belongs. Like now.
I really wish they would stop using these new stats of OPS and WAR, something unheard of by most baseball enthusiasts even ten years ago. It is somewhat confusing for most people. Use the simple stats like HR (homeruns), RBI (Runs batted in), BB (base on balls/walks), SO (Strike Outs), W (Wins), L (Losses), SV (Save), ERA (Earned Run Average), etc. I hate these newer statistical designations.
One thing I will say for OPS: The differential of that stat has a better correlation to teams actually winning games than just about any other stat that is widely publicized (about 83%). From someone who uses sabermetrics a good amount though, I would argue that old school and traditional stats do have have a place in these discussions in general. Of those you mentioned, the only two I personally don’t use a lot are pitching Wins and Losses because it can be possible for a pitcher to do a great job and get a loss if he gets no run support, and conversely to pitch average or even poorly and get a win if his teammates gave him enough runs to work with. There’s also the possibility that a pitcher can be in line for a win and the bullpen can blow the lead he left with so he’d get no decision. I tend to look at percentage of quality starts more than record for pitchers personally. And for relievers, I tend to look up how often they pitched an inning while giving up no runs (and ideally no more than one baserunner so they aren’t pitching themself into and out of trouble). Saves are useful to note, but not every relief appearance is an opportunity to get one. At least that’s what I think. What do you think?
The Braves won the division in 1982 and were in second place, I think in 1983 and 1984. In 1985, they were around average. It wasn't until 1986 that the Braves became the losers that people think they were for that whole decade. 1986-1990 were the terrible years for the Braves, but they were decent to good before that, and fantastic after that.
I feel that gold gloves are overrated, we shouldn't base it over gold gloves but rather we need to access film to see his quality of defence to see his quality of Course there is people who prove otherwise like Derek Jeter but that is more his range rather than his level of defence. Jeter. is a player who had bad range but if we extended his range to abn above average ss he would likely deserve some of those gold gloves since he was a great and accurate fielder in that range. He just didn't have the range to make routine plays easy for most ss unlike like an andrelton Simmons who makes great plays routine.
I tend to not include awards for evaluating overall production. Accolades such as All-Star appearances, Gold Gloves, MVPs, and Cy Youngs are purely political. I want their stats to do the talking and nothing else.
So we’re ignoring the latter half of his career as if it never happened. I’d rather someone in like Lou Whitaker, than someone like Murphy. Consistency and longevity should be rewarded, a short, steep peak with a clear drop in production shouldn’t. If Murphy kept up above average production for 3 or 4 more years, then I’d think he should be in Cooperstown.
A True Hall of Famer needs NO case to be in the Hall of Fame thus making them Great. Everyone else are just better than average players but not Great players, big difference especially when everyone throws out the word Great loosely.
Yes absolutely. Again, I'll slow it down for you. A True Hall of famer is someone that gets in the first time because that means there was no doubt at all.
Ummm... Actually it makes a lot of sense. Steve Garvey played the least important position defensively (and not particularly well at that) and was not even a better hitter than Rolen. Garvey's OPS+ was only 117 and Rolen's was 122. Garvey isn't even Hall of Very good if you actually look at value and not popularity. Parker, Murphy and Mattingly all have WARs in the low 40s. Rolen has a 70 WAR. Rolen played outstanding defense at an important position and was a slightly better hitter than Parker and Murphy. Hence, Rolen is an easy selection and the guys you listed really have no case.
@@johnnythunder196 Right. Rolen was much better. Had the the third highest WAR behind Bonds and ARod over an 8 year stretch. Murphy is exactly the kind of player that old school fans was good. Mediocre fielder, bad baserunner, didn't walk. Murphy has a lower OPS+ than Rolen and Rolen isn't even known for hitting.
Dale Murphy, Fred McGriff, Curt Schilling, and KEN BOYER all belong in the HOF..... BTW, (1/2) half ball player Designated Hitters DEFINITELY DO NOT BELONG IN THE HOF - Ever.
Murph and Mattingly just don't have the overall career numbers to warrant entry. Both were clearly on their way before going downhill prematurely. But then again defensive liability DH Edgar Martinez got in on a last chance sympathy vote so who knows!
Good player, and like Murphy, McGriff and Mattingly, he also made it to the end of his eligibility on the ballot. But I don’t think I’d go that far for Garvey.
Agreed, Curt Schilling was even better than Mike Mussina who is already in and better than CC Sabathia.. No Cy Young, but he was in the top ten like three to four times. Some people just don't that mich about baseball saying that he is not worth it, of course he is. A great post season pitcher too. Curt Schilling deserves to be in the hall of fame. What he said has nothing to do with baseball. Voters need to grow up.
@@omgDavidGlasper u keep writing that. he was king shit in the playoffs, and was a huge part of 3 rings to prove it. That more than makes up for some regular season W's he didn't have.
What a travesty that Dale Murphy is not in the Hall of Fame. There is obviously some other bias at work here by the people that vote that’s keeping him out.
they keep lowering the bar. at this point, yeah donny baseball should get in. One of my favorite players of all time. But not before albert belle. I can't defend allan trammel n baines before belle either. He was the quintessential peak guy, but yet still had just enough longevity.
It is actually pretty easy to defend "allan tramel". Alan Trammell has a 70.7 WAR and a 44.2 WAR7. Belle has a 40 WAR and a 36 WAR7. Trammell had a higher peak and much greater longevity than Belle.
@@Markdfadf I don't care about war, especially on it's own. The great Ben Zobrist lead all positional players in the league TWO YEARS in his career. He should be a hall of famer, or at least under great consideration, because war is so important.
@@hw5091 Oh no he did not. I just looked it up. Feel free to go to Baseball Reference. And it isn't a joke for him to be in the top five one year. He had a year where saved 22.3 runs on defense which was near the highest in baseball and he had an OPS+ of 149 while doing it.
Dale Murphy has a 46.5 WAR, a 3.5 WAR/162 and 18.8 WAA and a 121 OPS+ Fred Lynn 50.2 WAR 4.1 WAR/162 24.4 WAA 129 OPS+ If you put Dale Murphy, where do you stop. Fred Lynn played at the same time and is better in every respect. Bernie Williams was better. Kenny Lofton was infinitely more deserving. Chet Lemon is better. Jim Edmonds, Andruw Jones. Johnny Damon.
Idk, but I think he had a better case than don mattingly. 2 time mvp, was a top power hitter during the 80s, only behind Schmidt of course. Still no magic numbers. Like 500 home runs and 3000 hits. I still say no but if he get in one day I wouldn’t be upset
Murphy's ROAD career obp is .324 and slugging .440..does not sound like a hall of famer to me especially since after 32 he was no good and maybe he was a decent defensive outfielder for an ex catcher ,but he was not really a good defensive outfielder ..The players who were better than Murphy in the 2 years the MORON sportswriters voted him MVP ( which they only did because he played his home games in " the launching pad " ) include but are not limited to ...Schmidt,Winfield Dawson, Gary Carter ,Mario Soto,Eddie Murphy,Dave Stieb,Yount (Boggs ???) and Schmidt was 5 or ten times as good... Schmidt a WAY,WAY,WAY,WAY better hitter and a Way,way,way ,way more valuable defensive player.....Brian Kenny is REALLY good,best analyst on TV ,except for when Bill James is on MLB network...but he is wrong here ..and you can usually count on Kenny to make ballpark adjustments ,and the ballpark adjustments you need for Murphy are GIGANTIC,,but he seems to be ignoring
@@omgDavidGlasper I agree Murphy never DESERVED an MVP. Interesting that his name is mentioned with Holliday.Both players. we're way overrated due to ballpark they played their home games in .And I do not consider either a great player
@SheepOfChrist818 Bill James has Yount as 55 the greatest player ever.If you need perspective,the 53 rd and 54 t and 56 th and 57 th were ......Campanella Gwynn ,Bob Feller,Reggie Jackson ...seems like some real talent there
Murphy has no case. None. In his peak stretch, of just eight seasons, he was excellent in six of them. Otherwise over his career he was anywhere from acceptable to not even worth a roster spot. Even then his peak was below the average of a Hall of Famer, and he has no case at all by longevity. Hall of the Very Good, but that's it. 18 years in the game, and in more than half his seasons his teams would have been far better off putting his salary elsewhere. Far better off. That's how slow his ascendance was, and how fast his decline was.
@@ICU2B4UDO Let's be real. Rizzuto is in there because of the Yankees success, Mazeroski is in the hall because he hit a walkoff HR in the World Series, and Ortiz is in there because he's one of the best DHs ever, won several rings, was clutch in the playoffs, and was generally liked by fans and the media alike (on top of being the best of these 3 players)
@@scottrothbaum8296 Ortiz was in the Mitchell Report for using PED's...So, if he's in for cheating, which he did, you have to put the other cheaters in which shouldn't happen...Mazeroski was a superlative 2nd Basemen for years, just not always a great bat and Rizzuto at least won an MVP but he did a lot of the little things great, ask Ted Williams, though it was the Veterans Committeethat put him in...But the HOF is being watered down a bit...
Here's my thing I think the only reason Dale Murphy did not get into the Hall of Fame because is career got cut short now was at his fault absolutely not but again I think that's the only reason Dale Murphy is getting disqualified for the Hall of Fame now does that hurt as a usual and yes it does It hurts because after all these years they finally decide to put Fred McGriffin to the Hall of Fame and now from McGriff say he'll go in as a Atlanta Braves in 2023 @jorgeosterman5715
Yankees fan here, grew up hating the braves, but dale Murphy’s exclusion was a crime BACK THEN, on par with Gil Hodges (actual murder, still not over it). There’s no discussion, DM was GREAT
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Sounds like a Hall of Famer to me and he was a great ambassador for baseball!!!
7X All-Star, 5X Gold Glove, 4X Silver Slugger, Back2Back MVPs. His final couple seasons left a bad taste in voters' mouths. If he had made it 400 HR, probably gets voted in by the writers. His resume is more than adequate for induction.
Yes, I agree, especially with the 398 home runs. I grew up a Braves fan in the 80's. I remember at least two home runs of Murph's that did not count. One he hit in the early innings of a game that got rained out, and then another he hit against the Tigers in an exhibition Hall of Fame game in the middle of the season. There was no inter-league play then, but there is now, and that home run would have counted now. I can also remember a few where Murph's ball left the park, but some heroic outfield went over the wall and hauled it back in. So close to 400! And that number probably would have done the trick.
Hall of Famer defined as dominance in his era. He defines that
I remember thinking the same thing. Just two more home runs, and the man is elected, I have no doubt.
You’re right. The 398 was the problem.
@@EskewsmeI bet it was the same excuse the hall of fame voters kept McGriff out, 6 short of 500.
Schilling has done nothing but just speak his mind the writers need to grow up and put him in mcgriff as well
Nah Schilling did speak his mind and it’s his RIGHT!!!! And the HOF voters get to decide if the shit some of the weirdos say should get them barred and that is their Right!!!! And you have a right to bit*h about it because it’s your Right!!! So now do you see how that works? free speech doesn’t excuse accountability.
Yep, and he should be kept out for just sheer stupidity. He was dumb enough to criticize the people who vote for his induction before he got in. That’s like a presidential candidate criticizing potential voters during a campaign.
schilling also defrauded the state of rhode island to make a video game
@@mattcook3291 more things that ain't got nothing to do with baseball lol
@@jorgeosterman5715 only 216 wins. 3.46 era...lol never won the cy
Dale Murphy is a living legend. He deserves to be in the Hall. He was Mickey Mantle Good in the mid 1980's. Just an effing POWER HOUSE.
According to Bill James, Mantle DESERVED the MVP every year for the 9 year period 1954- 1962 .( Except 1959)As I pointed out in other comment I made to this video Murphy NEVER deserved an MVP ,in fact he was never even close .So can you tell me the 9 year period where Murphy DESERVED the MVP eight times? I am drawing a blank on that.Bill James had Mantle sixth greatest player ever ...Murphy not in top 100.Mantle was - at a time THE STRONGEST AND THE FASTEST player in the game .Are you going to claim that about Murphy? As you can see I strongly disagree with your perspective,but I hope you have a great day
You obviously never seen him play
@@GregBanish-so6ztDoes Murphy belong in Cooperstown in your opinion?
@@fortynights1513 thanks for asking ...No he does not.If I were to try to quickly summarize my opinion,I would say he was overrated because of the ballpark he played in .Shortly Helton will make the Hall ....mostly same issue. You should not be elected to the Hall simply because you played your home games in a great hitters' s park.What is your perspective?
@@GregBanish-so6ztDidn’t know Fulton County Stadium was considered a hitters park.
Either way, Murphy has a pretty darn good resume.
Even with the swift career decline and shorter prime, he hit nearly 400 homers, made seven all star games, won two MVP’s, and won five gold gloves (I think it’s probably fair to consider him at least a decent fielder given his defensive metrics aren’t great but he won those accolades), and sabermetrically the baseball reference version of WAR finds him to be a top five player in the league three times and from sixth to tenth in a fourth season in his peak years, and even OPS+, the most prominent park adjusted batting metric (which likely would have punished him for being in a favorable park for hitters) finds Murphy to be top five at hitting for four of his peak years.
If you don’t think Murphy played at a higher level for long enough, I could totally understand why you wouldn’t vote for him, but I would argue that his peak was an excellent one.
I would put Murphy (as well as Don Mattingly who made this Era Committee ballot too) in a class a bit below Hall of Fame I call “Hall of Very Good”:
Players who either had one of the best peaks at their position of any player who isn’t in Cooperstown or who made it to the end of their writer’s ballot eligibility (the latter of which those two did), along with a select few others who I think deserved more consideration than they ever got.
Absolutely agree!!!!! Murphy is a HOF!!!
Loving the increase in posts! Thank you MLB Network.
One of the best Braves of all time put him in the HOF!!
Why isn't he in yet! I am asking for all Atlanta Braves fans
Best video you guys have put out in awhile!! My son was #3 for 15 years playing ball for Murphy!! If he and Andruw Jones and McGriff get in I will be extremely happy!!!
Mattingly and Murphy definitely should get in
Murphy yes...Mattingly no....
Mattingly was thee best hitter in Baseball for 4 straight years. I remember those years being 55. I remember everyone trying to find Mattinglys rookie card...not Dale Murphys lol. Murphy shouldnt have been MVP either year. Mattingly should have win it 3 straight years.
@@paolo-n2000yes Mattingly 9 gold gloves 2100 hits, an mvp, 6 all stars, batting title, and 3 silver sluggers all in only 14 years
McGriff should have been in 15 years ago, He hit 493 bombs the 94 season got canceled
It’s great Murphy and Mattingly were great for 6-8 years. Not enough to get in the Hall. It’s the Hall of Fame not the Hall of Great or pretty good which is where those 2 fit looking at their entire career. Gold Glives turn out to be popularity contests that include offensive numbers for some reason at times. That’s how Palmiero got one playing DH most of that season. Brian K is an idiot who love good careers and thinks they deserve more credit than they should get. Of course I say that and Harold Baines got in, but he had lots of friends on that committee. He getting in was a joke.
Dale Murphy is a HOF player
Yankees fan here, grew up hating the braves, but dale Murphy’s exclusion was a crime BACK THEN, on par with Gil Hodges (actual murder, still not over it). There’s no discussion, DM was GREAT
It's the hall of fame not good behavior. With that being said Murphy is definitely a HOFer
I don't understand how Raines made it before Dale Murphy
But he pretty much did what McGuire did.....without steroids...that is incredible. What do you think did him in injuries at the end? He fell off fast after like 87 or 88 it seemed -- someplace in there
Raines was more consistent than Murphy in the latter half of his career. Murphy’s production from the late 80s on fell off a cliff.
I notice that every time Schilling's name is brought up, these "experts" NEVER tell us what he said that was so criminal!!!
Exactly NOTHING 🤣
It’s unprecedented what the baseball writers have done to Schilling. They are beyond sanctimonious.
@@JeffyPDiddy amen to that
Hee went against their narrative, and NO ONE dares question that.
But I vaguely remember Schilling saying that it wouldn't bother him if he is never elected. He would rather speak his mind than sell his soul. I respect that.
I love it that you're giving Dale Murphy this moment..... I think he deserves it....
I am of the mind to take guys who were the best players in the league like Dale Murphy, Mattingly, etc for a good 5-6 year run rather than some "compilers" who were just around a very long time and were good players but nothing more. Longevity certainly plays a part but guys like Murphy and Mattingly meant more to the game than a lot of other guys that are in the HOF currently. Glad to see Mcgriff finally got in. He was low key and narrowly missed the 500 HR mark so they kept him out for years even though he was a monster batting in the post season too.
Very valid points, Mr. Kenny - especially the part about who should be "rewarded" and who should not.
We're talking Cooperstown here - the day the juicers start getting in, the institution loses all credibility to me.
It’s called the Hall of Fame! Name two more famous players from the 1980s. Dale Murphy and Don Mattingly we’re the faces of baseball.
Both should have been in years ago.
Absolutely
And you know what....I watched baseball then. Dale Murphy was a lot better than Mattingly. There for 3 or 4 years in the 1980's....Dale Murphy was one of the best players..........EVER. Look at his stats
@@rockscousteauNobody is really questioning that. Just saying for the era they played in, their careers say hall of fame. Murphy’s screams it.
My Childhood hero.
Stats (on the field).....HOF worthy
Standing ( who you are off the field) .....HOF....the nicest, best human you could ask for
The real con for Dale Murphy for getting in the hall of fame is a tremendous and sustained drop in batting average after the 1987 season. There are many ball players that have five year runs of top performing stats in MLB history that are not in the Hall of Fame but I think most have no where near a tail spin in batting average.
2,000+ hits, 1,000+ RBIs and almost 400 HRs and 5 gold gloves. Yeah, he should be in.
Well presented Mr. Kenny. ⚾
I tend to have stricter personal standards when it comes to who I think should be a HOF player. To me, he needs to be a dominant player for a long period of time. Guys like Ruth, Mays, Musial, Young, as well as modern guys like Boggs, Carew, Johnson, etc.
That said, since I'm not the one who selects players, I am much more inclined to agree with guys like Murphy and Mattingly being in the Hall than guys like Baines and Simmons You can have a guy who compiles career numbers and yet was not dominant, like Baines (and I'm a White Sox fan, he was a favorite of mine growing up). Murphy, however, was just a scary hitter; he was to hitting what Koufax was to pitching, I think.
So based on that criteria, I would have zero problem with Murphy being selected. Even his down year of 1986 was a solid year. I suspect that if he would have had one more year like 1983 or 1984, (say, for example, he had numbers in 1988 like he did in 1983), he would have been selected a long time ago.
Hero to thousands of 1980s kids, not just in GA, but all over the nation. SO want to see Murph get inducted - but I’m just not seeing it
Dale Murphy should be in no question
If Murphy played in the 90s and 2000s, we probably don’t have this discussion and probably isn’t an afterthought in the hall of fame discussion with all the numbers jacked as they were. But the era he playmates in, deserves to be in.
I grew up watching my favorite baseball player Dale Murphy and I think his statistics show he’s hall of fame player
Why did you choose the 1982-87 range? Because Murphy wasn't worth much after that. So his peak was pretty short. He was very good, but not great. Nothing wrong with that. Put him in the Hall of Very Good with Orel Hershiser and guys like that.
Dale Murphy was the only reason to watch the braves in the late 80s
Early to mid 80s. His production fell off a cliff starting in the late 80s.
@@cityhawk sorta like Andruw Jones
@@gameshows5973 There’s no doubt that during Murphy’s prime, he was one of the best players in the game. There’s no dispute about his productivity at the time, but we have to take a look at the entirety of his career. By simply omitting the latter part of his career just to make a HOF case for him is incredibly disingenuous. It wasn’t as if it was a gradual decline, it fell off a cliff. By the time the 80s ended, the Braves looked smart in trading Murphy to the Phillies. He wasn’t close to being the two-time MVP that he was in Atlanta. I’m sorry to say, just because a player had an incredible peak doesn’t mean they should go to Cooperstown. Brian Kenny is dead wrong here. To be honest, I’d make a stronger case for Lou Whitaker.
He definitely should be in the hall of fame
Dale Murphy won the Roberto Clemente award.
MIND BOGGLING.. Murph SHOULD have been a 1ST ballet HOF!!!
Any real baseball fan should know Dale Murphy is the largest omission from the HOF roster. Harold Baines? Scott Rolen? Bruce Sutter? Gary Carter? Get out of here with that and put #3 in Cooperstown where he belongs. Like now.
Dave Stieb is the Dale Murphy of pitchers ... He should be in. He was the best AL pitcher of the 1980s.
I love Steib, but Jack Morris was the 80's.
dale was the face of baseball
No question! He is a deserving player
Dale Murphy invented the diving catching the ball like it was a normal thing
I seem to recall that Murph was the only play who voted NOT to strike.
I can't believe pitchers didn't groove 2 cookies for him to hit 400... he classed up the Phils when he was here.
How come David Wright hasn't been mentioned?
This was the year before he’d come up.
That said, definitely a peak player.
Schilling is a hall of famer
Murph and Mattingley both deserve to be in the Hall
Played for a cellat team hurt him, injured the last 4 years, truly a shame that he's not going to make it
This will give all those 90s " junk wax " cards a new pov.
I really wish they would stop using these new stats of OPS and WAR, something unheard of by most baseball enthusiasts even ten years ago. It is somewhat confusing for most people. Use the simple stats like HR (homeruns), RBI (Runs batted in), BB (base on balls/walks), SO (Strike Outs), W (Wins), L (Losses), SV (Save), ERA (Earned Run Average), etc. I hate these newer statistical designations.
One thing I will say for OPS:
The differential of that stat has a better correlation to teams actually winning games than just about any other stat that is widely publicized (about 83%).
From someone who uses sabermetrics a good amount though, I would argue that old school and traditional stats do have have a place in these discussions in general.
Of those you mentioned, the only two I personally don’t use a lot are pitching Wins and Losses because it can be possible for a pitcher to do a great job and get a loss if he gets no run support, and conversely to pitch average or even poorly and get a win if his teammates gave him enough runs to work with. There’s also the possibility that a pitcher can be in line for a win and the bullpen can blow the lead he left with so he’d get no decision.
I tend to look at percentage of quality starts more than record for pitchers personally.
And for relievers, I tend to look up how often they pitched an inning while giving up no runs (and ideally no more than one baserunner so they aren’t pitching themself into and out of trouble). Saves are useful to note, but not every relief appearance is an opportunity to get one.
At least that’s what I think. What do you think?
Imagine him on a team the opposing team couldn't pitch around. When he played for the braves they sucked. He was one of the greatest bats in baseball
The Braves won the division in 1982 and were in second place, I think in 1983 and 1984. In 1985, they were around average. It wasn't until 1986 that the Braves became the losers that people think they were for that whole decade. 1986-1990 were the terrible years for the Braves, but they were decent to good before that, and fantastic after that.
Murph, Mattlingly, and the Crime Dog. All HOF material
They had year to year stats
I feel that gold gloves are overrated, we shouldn't base it over gold gloves but rather we need to access film to see his quality of defence to see his quality of Course there is people who prove otherwise like Derek Jeter but that is more his range rather than his level of defence. Jeter. is a player who had bad range but if we extended his range to abn above average ss he would likely deserve some of those gold gloves since he was a great and accurate fielder in that range. He just didn't have the range to make routine plays easy for most ss unlike like an andrelton Simmons who makes great plays routine.
I tend to not include awards for evaluating overall production. Accolades such as All-Star appearances, Gold Gloves, MVPs, and Cy Youngs are purely political. I want their stats to do the talking and nothing else.
Put everybody in
Shouldn't be a HOF if Dale is isn't in, PERIOD
So we’re ignoring the latter half of his career as if it never happened. I’d rather someone in like Lou Whitaker, than someone like Murphy. Consistency and longevity should be rewarded, a short, steep peak with a clear drop in production shouldn’t. If Murphy kept up above average production for 3 or 4 more years, then I’d think he should be in Cooperstown.
Like I've always said, it's The Hall of Fame, not The Hall of Stats. Murphy should be in the hall.
Moreover the stats you’d cite would be peak ones.
Retro metric stats is BS
Dale Murphy should be in the HOF
Bottom line: If Harold Baines is in, Murphy should be in.
Saying he’s better than Baines doesn’t really say much in this context.
That said, I could see why you would say Murphy belongs.
Harold Baines shouldn’t have been in the first place. The fact that he got in before Lou Whitaker is ridiculous.
I am grateful that McGriff made it. I wish Mattingly and Murphy also did. Character matters.
A True Hall of Famer needs NO case to be in the Hall of Fame thus making them Great. Everyone else are just better than average players but not Great players, big difference especially when everyone throws out the word Great loosely.
So then by your logic would everyone who gets in through Veterans Committees be undeserving?
Yes absolutely. Again, I'll slow it down for you. A True Hall of famer is someone that gets in the first time because that means there was no doubt at all.
Scott Rolen is voted in and Parker, Murphy, Garvey and Mattingly can't get more than 42% of the vote needed. Makes no sense.
Ummm... Actually it makes a lot of sense. Steve Garvey played the least important position defensively (and not particularly well at that) and was not even a better hitter than Rolen. Garvey's OPS+ was only 117 and Rolen's was 122. Garvey isn't even Hall of Very good if you actually look at value and not popularity. Parker, Murphy and Mattingly all have WARs in the low 40s. Rolen has a 70 WAR. Rolen played outstanding defense at an important position and was a slightly better hitter than Parker and Murphy. Hence, Rolen is an easy selection and the guys you listed really have no case.
@@Markdfadf Scott freakin' Rolin wasn't even half the player that Murphy was in his prime
@@johnnythunder196 Right. Rolen was much better. Had the the third highest WAR behind Bonds and ARod over an 8 year stretch. Murphy is exactly the kind of player that old school fans was good. Mediocre fielder, bad baserunner, didn't walk. Murphy has a lower OPS+ than Rolen and Rolen isn't even known for hitting.
Dale Murphy, Fred McGriff, Curt Schilling, and KEN BOYER all belong in the HOF..... BTW, (1/2) half ball player Designated Hitters DEFINITELY DO NOT BELONG IN THE HOF - Ever.
After Don Mattingly.
Thee best hitter for 4 straight years. Should have won 3 straight MVP's.
Looking at the careers honestly. Murphy was really Donnie Baseball. Not Mattingly. Murphy was much better
Dale Murphy came up as a catcher before he became a centerfielder. He is a hall of fame oh yeah didn't use steroids.
Murph and Mattingly just don't have the overall career numbers to warrant entry. Both were clearly on their way before going downhill prematurely. But then again defensive liability DH Edgar Martinez got in on a last chance sympathy vote so who knows!
why no one talks about steve garvey
He definitely deserves to be in!
Good player, and like Murphy, McGriff and Mattingly, he also made it to the end of his eligibility on the ballot.
But I don’t think I’d go that far for Garvey.
@@fortynights151310x all star NL MVP. 2x NLCS MVP 4 gold glove 2all star mvp. 81 world series. 2599 hits (6 season of 200+) iron man of the NL
He also put up those numbers with some of the worst teams in MLB history. Meaning, he had no protection. Yet he still put up those numbers.
Schilling deserves the HoF.
I don’t think a 5 year peak does much.
lol 216 wins 3.46 era...no cy
Agreed, Curt Schilling was even better than Mike Mussina who is already in and better than CC Sabathia.. No Cy Young, but he was in the top ten like three to four times. Some people just don't that mich about baseball saying that he is not worth it, of course he is. A great post season pitcher too. Curt Schilling deserves to be in the hall of fame. What he said has nothing to do with baseball. Voters need to grow up.
@@omgDavidGlasper u keep writing that. he was king shit in the playoffs, and was a huge part of 3 rings to prove it. That more than makes up for some regular season W's he didn't have.
Then again, Rose isn't in.
Hall of fame snubbing so many players now but the hall has racists in the hall.
😂🤡here we go again. Use the card
What a travesty that Dale Murphy is not in the Hall of Fame. There is obviously some other bias at work here by the people that vote that’s keeping him out.
they keep lowering the bar. at this point, yeah donny baseball should get in. One of my favorite players of all time. But not before albert belle. I can't defend allan trammel n baines before belle either. He was the quintessential peak guy, but yet still had just enough longevity.
It is actually pretty easy to defend "allan tramel". Alan Trammell has a 70.7 WAR and a 44.2 WAR7. Belle has a 40 WAR and a 36 WAR7. Trammell had a higher peak and much greater longevity than Belle.
@@Markdfadf I don't care about war, especially on it's own. The great Ben Zobrist lead all positional players in the league TWO YEARS in his career. He should be a hall of famer, or at least under great consideration, because war is so important.
@@hw5091 He never lead the league in WAR. He was top five once in his career. I have no idea what you are talking about. He has a career WAR of 44.
@@Markdfadf oh yes he did. And for him to even be top five is joke.
@@hw5091 Oh no he did not. I just looked it up. Feel free to go to Baseball Reference. And it isn't a joke for him to be in the top five one year. He had a year where saved 22.3 runs on defense which was near the highest in baseball and he had an OPS+ of 149 while doing it.
50 WAR doesn't make anyone a Hall of Famer. That's ridiculous.
Dale Murphy has a 46.5 WAR, a 3.5 WAR/162 and 18.8 WAA and a 121 OPS+
Fred Lynn 50.2 WAR 4.1 WAR/162 24.4 WAA 129 OPS+
If you put Dale Murphy, where do you stop. Fred Lynn played at the same time and is better in every respect. Bernie Williams was better. Kenny Lofton was infinitely more deserving. Chet Lemon is better. Jim Edmonds, Andruw Jones. Johnny Damon.
1) Vada Pinson, 2) Tommy John, 3) Al Oliver, 4) Bert Campaneris
He didn’t play for the right team.
Idk, but I think he had a better case than don mattingly. 2 time mvp, was a top power hitter during the 80s, only behind Schmidt of course.
Still no magic numbers. Like 500 home runs and 3000 hits. I still say no but if he get in one day I wouldn’t be upset
A Brian Kenny vote is a joke. His opinion is meaningless. Get someone else to host this show. Please.
agreed, he is trying to tell voters what to do, like he owns everything.
Steve Garvey is more HOF worthy than Dale Murphy and Don Mattingly.
He had that logevity!
HOF is a joke, why anyone cares what a bunch of writers think is beyond me
Murphy's ROAD career obp is .324 and slugging .440..does not sound like a hall of famer to me especially since after 32 he was no good and maybe he was a decent defensive outfielder for an ex catcher ,but he was not really a good defensive outfielder ..The players who were better than Murphy in the 2 years the MORON sportswriters voted him MVP ( which they only did because he played his home games in " the launching pad " ) include but are not limited to ...Schmidt,Winfield Dawson, Gary Carter ,Mario Soto,Eddie Murphy,Dave Stieb,Yount (Boggs ???) and Schmidt was 5 or ten times as good... Schmidt a WAY,WAY,WAY,WAY better hitter and a Way,way,way ,way more valuable defensive player.....Brian Kenny is REALLY good,best analyst on TV ,except for when Bill James is on MLB network...but he is wrong here ..and you can usually count on Kenny to make ballpark adjustments ,and the ballpark adjustments you need for Murphy are GIGANTIC,,but he seems to be ignoring
idk chief, Dale Murphy had the same impact on baseball as Matt Holliday. Great players but not HoF worthy
Exactly. Plus, Murphy should never have won either mvps
Holliday also is!!!
@@omgDavidGlasper Who would you have given them to out of curiosity?
@@omgDavidGlasper I agree Murphy never DESERVED an MVP. Interesting that his name is mentioned with Holliday.Both players. we're way overrated due to ballpark they played their home games in .And I do not consider either a great player
@SheepOfChrist818 Bill James has Yount as 55 the greatest player ever.If you need perspective,the 53 rd and 54 t and 56 th and 57 th were ......Campanella Gwynn ,Bob Feller,Reggie Jackson ...seems like some real talent there
Murphy has no case. None. In his peak stretch, of just eight seasons, he was excellent in six of them. Otherwise over his career he was anywhere from acceptable to not even worth a roster spot. Even then his peak was below the average of a Hall of Famer, and he has no case at all by longevity. Hall of the Very Good, but that's it. 18 years in the game, and in more than half his seasons his teams would have been far better off putting his salary elsewhere. Far better off. That's how slow his ascendance was, and how fast his decline was.
Only a two-time NL MVP, but no case according to you......GTFOH!!
Then why is Phil Rizzuto in, Bill Mazeroski, David Ortiz who WAS in the Mitchell Report...We can do this with a Bunch of guys...
@@ICU2B4UDO Let's be real. Rizzuto is in there because of the Yankees success, Mazeroski is in the hall because he hit a walkoff HR in the World Series, and Ortiz is in there because he's one of the best DHs ever, won several rings, was clutch in the playoffs, and was generally liked by fans and the media alike (on top of being the best of these 3 players)
@@scottrothbaum8296 Ortiz was in the Mitchell Report for using PED's...So, if he's in for cheating, which he did, you have to put the other cheaters in which shouldn't happen...Mazeroski was a superlative 2nd Basemen for years, just not always a great bat and Rizzuto at least won an MVP but he did a lot of the little things great, ask Ted Williams, though it was the Veterans Committeethat put him in...But the HOF is being watered down a bit...
explain why he even won either mvp lol
Hell yes Murph belongs!
Here's my thing I think the only reason Dale Murphy did not get into the Hall of Fame because is career got cut short now was at his fault absolutely not but again I think that's the only reason Dale Murphy is getting disqualified for the Hall of Fame now does that hurt as a usual and yes it does It hurts because after all these years they finally decide to put Fred McGriffin to the Hall of Fame and now from McGriff say he'll go in as a Atlanta Braves in 2023 @jorgeosterman5715
Yankees fan here, grew up hating the braves, but dale Murphy’s exclusion was a crime BACK THEN, on par with Gil Hodges (actual murder, still not over it). There’s no discussion, DM was GREAT