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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Outside the Lines looks at Roger Clemens' legacy and his case for the Baseball Hall of Fame.
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He's a hall of famer, regardless of what ESPN thinks about it
It’s not just ESPN though hahaha
@@rawpower12xuum they referenced espn because the video above was produced by... espn. That's why out of all the media outlets that don't want Roger Clemens in the hof, they singled out and mentioned espn in particular. Hahaha? I guess.
If your going to build the perfect pitcher you'll build them like Roger Clemens.
Honestly for better or worse, you can't tell the story of baseball from the mid 80s until the mid 00s without Roger Clemens. If you want to put the Mitchell report tagged on his plaque fine, but he was more a part of baseball during those years than some of the people already put into the hall from that time. Like not to call out any one in particular but, Tim Raines is in the hall..... He was never the player Clemons was
Awful example. Rock raines is all time great
Crack Rock Raines? Good not great. Please
Barry bonds was
Of course you can't tell the story without him, he was the best pitcher in baseball.
I can tell a story too a story about a guy who was so washed up 1996 that the red Sox showed him the door everything after that is a farce from this cheater who tested out the steroids by having his own wife shot up first so he could monitor the results
put them in steroid era wing , or make a note on the plaque , but them not being in is BEYOND RIDICULOUS . Fun fact : The Astros was more damaging then steroids and Altuve and Carrera will still get in .
He was proven not guilty in a court of law. What more do you want? He is the greatest pitcher of all time and definitely should be in the hall of fame.
He never failed a test and showed receipt showing he wasn’t at the location he was accused of being at. I don’t know if he juiced or not. Know one does, that’s the point. You can’t condemn people without proof. Proof not hearsay
This is the absolute reason baseball went from being America’s Pastime to lagging behind the NFL and NBA!! The baseball writers hold an incredible sway of power that rivals the old school mafia!! Their reporting for decades was heavily skewed towards the athletes that accommodated their requests and others who were less forthcoming when being interviewed or even less cooperative as far as granting access to them, they were subsequently written about in far less than favorable terms. Guys like Mantle who never ever denied reporters access and were more than willing to go out of their way to accommodate these reporters were written about as if they were deities!! And conversely guys like Ted Williams and Barry Bonds were reported to be “aloof distant petulant and difficult”. In baseball if the reporters loved u then u became almost god-like!!! Just look at Derek Jeter and the level of reverence bestowed upon him by almost everyone writing about the game. The truth is Ty Cobb probably wasn’t a great guy maybe even a bad guy but so what!! His accomplishments on the diamond were incredible!! Pete Rose was obv a degenerate gambler but his career as a player is so astounding the fact that he isn’t in the hall of fame seems absurd. Bonds and Clemens should be in point blank period!! What the Mitchell report doesn’t say or wasn’t publicized is how many other players were using?!!! But even more importantly keep in mind that steroids were around in the 60’s and 70’s and 80’s. Yes they weren’t as widely used but trust me guys used them and we will never know about it!!! After so much ridiculous debate over whether or not Bonds and Clemens and others should get in what happened was the everyday fans found themselves in a quandary not knowing where they should be on these issues and bc it was confusing and somewhat overwhelming many of these fans left viewership of baseball and focused their attention on football basketball and other sports pastimes!!! Let them all in and spend more time propping the players up (like the NBA
I like your comment. I agree that they should be let in purely based on their natural talent. These guys also came into the league amazingly talented. I am not sure hoe long they were using for but it seems that it was more toward the end of their careers. So yes, steroids extended their careers. However, fact remains that these guys would have been in the Hall even if they did not use. However the rule started, that the writers should vote these guys in, it needs to change. Unless you have been on the field and had a career in any sport you should not be allowed to hold these guys HOF careers in your hands. The media has too much control in the opinions of this.
@@jasonandyjoseph when you have the time check out HENRY AARONs stats from the ages of 29-39...prior to the “steroid era” if you track the all time greats stats you will see a very pronounced pattern that 29-31 was their peak and then their stats steadily declined. Aaron is the exception!! The question is why?? Aaron was from Atlanta!!! Why is this important you ask? There was a well known gym in Atlanta that produced some exceptionally talented body builders around this time of the mid 60’s and forward. One of them would eventually be Lee Haney multiple time Mr Olympia!! It’s obv a well known fact that all professional body builders use steroids. Now I have no proof personally however it has been reported by numerous sources that Aaron began working out at that gym when he was 30, 31 or 32. If you have ever been a member of any gym where there is a subculture of bodybuilders than you will know how open and freely they discuss steroids and what each type specifically does for you. Did Aaron use?? Great question that we will never know the answer too but my point is simple. In all major professional sports their exists a very real subculture of so called expert trainers and strength and conditioning coaches. These men built their reputations on producing results and this in turn led to financial success. All these so called conditioning gurus frequented specific gyms where they trained their respective athletes. It is naive to think that none of these trainers were ever exposed to steroids and their benefits. They obv were. And if it’s obv that they undoubtedly came in contact with sources who educated them on steroids and their results then it’s even more naive to think that some of these trainers didn’t consider and or offer and use steroids with some of the athletes they trained!! So the idea that no baseball player used steroids prior to Canseco and the A’s team is so ridiculous that only the most delusional fan could believe this!!
@@carloscardona8238 dude… nice!! Smbdy please stop 🛑 the INSANITY since 1 or 2 weeks ago on that fateful Wednesday coming out w/ the Last 10 years eligibility vote 🗳 such BS!!! 😤
Fans and media didn't care about steroids back in the 90s, or at the very least never said anything. They certainly didn't view it as a reputation destroying moral No No the way they do now.
@@jasonandyjoseph the writers shouldn't be allowed to vote against any players pre 2003 based on a steroid related character clause....its such nonsense. It simply wasn't seen as a character flaw back then.
so Clemens should have played his career out , pitching against 60% +/- of batters who used some sort of PED’s, while not using any substances himself? the logic of writers who do it vote for him to the hall is unfair. he is not a sacrificial lamb, he is a competitor. so he used to compete; like nearly everyone else. put him in the hall
He belongs in the hall... Best pitcher ever.. Steroids? Ok... Everyone was on something and he still was still dominant
Pedro and Maddux did it without cheating against practically the same roided out batters. He screwed up
@@rawpower12xu you really think Pedro and Maddux never took anything?? Of course they did what was legal when they pitched is not legal today.. Everyone was taking something to improve performance.. Nobody did it solely on diet and training
The Rocket belongs in the HOF
Without Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds the HOF is a meaningless institution.
I try to look at it from the middle ground and for me that means looking at a player from when they were “clean”. Roger Clemens was considered “clean” for the entirety of his career with the Boston Red Sox. If you focus on just what he did with the Red Sox he’s a HoFer: 192 wins, 3 Cy Young Awards, an MVP, 5 All-Star Selections, 2 Wins titles, 4 ERA titles and 3 Strikeouts titles. I think if he had taken Dan Duquette’s “twilight” comment to heart and retired after 1996 he would’ve been a first ballot HoFer so for me yes he should be in… and I’m not a fan of the guy either. Personally I think he’s a PoS but he was a great pitcher I don’t discredit that.
they can be in a BB HoF every single day in opening hours :)
OK in my opinion is if you let one cheater in you have to consider all PED users for entry to HofF. Then are those with legal problems allowed? Are those with history of violence against women to be considered. Hey and how about the gambler, Pete Rose.
Hall of Fame has Ty Cobb who was a downright racist and bet on baseball
Put him in today!
The Hall of Fame loses all credibility without Clemens and Bonds
😍😍😍⚾️⚾️😞😔😧😭
Decline
This pro PEDs comment section is comical 😆 c'mon y'all, if you cheated, you shouldn't be in the HoF.
You’re comical HYPOCRITE much!!/?? 😐🤭🤥😦😑🤫😏
Youre an idiot..baseball was much better under peds. Spare me. Clemens is the best pitcher of all time. Idiot.
Writers: vote steroid users to win awards.
Also Writers: you were mean to me…so no hall of fame for you.
Roids were NOT legal for ANYONE. These players broke the LAW by giving themselves an unfair advantage and they reaped the admaration, the money, the rewards and packed the record books with lies. They get those things because we couldn't prove it then and we can't change the past. Now we know and to immortalize these players for cheating would stain the sport forever.
No, you CANNOT have your cake 🍰 and eat it too!!🎂🚫🧁❕‼️
Shut up boomer
Bonds and Clemens were both hall of famers before roids imo...Thing is they signed away the hall when they did them...Period. Rose deserves to be there but...
The hall is a joke without the likes of him and Barry Bonds. It's the fall of Major League baseball and I have to assume back then everybody was using so either put no one in or you have to put those guys in.
Clemens said he didnt' want to be in the hall of fame so f him
Roger regained his fastball no one ever does. roger belongs in the HOF.
Decline…simple there
CHEATERS
Oh btw ...I I liked baseball more on the steroids .....
I don't like Smith.
The only major sport that has a HOF with 10 of the top 30 players ever missing lol Baseball has a odd history man
The Baseball HOF is as notable for who is in it as for who isn't in it.
Decline. Roids.
Bottom line, he belongs in the Hall of Fame, period...
Cheating, corruption, is ok in mlb. Writers are being crybabies. They all benefited from these players. Hypocrites
💯
Correct. MLB looked the other way with steroids for years!
Moronic writers who never even played decide who gets in.
What a joke and why I have zero interest to go to MLB HOF.
No juiced arms in the Hall of Fame
He can’t be unfortunately. Everyone knows if one roid head gets in then they all will be. The black eye it left in baseball will keep all these guys out. They knew the price…
Steroid cheats need to be banned from baseball for life.
So Ortiz, Bagwell and Pudge should be removed?
@@dukedematteo1995 If they took steroids, yes.
@@borood1188 even if it's prior to the testing regime? And before any sportswriter had this super moralistic zero tolerance policy?
He cheated and ruined childhood dreams for a lot of kids. He will never get in, nor bonds, nor mcgwire, nor any of those cheaters. Every record they broke was a lie to Every fan.
Clemens deff should be in hands down!
Facts, denying mlb history into its rightful place.
He should have been able to do it without roids. He got the money and the rings and doesn't deserve any more than that.
He never tested positive for steroids and he denied all accusations. How are you going to say he was definitely using steroids.
Roger Clemens is my all time favorite pitcher and absolutely belongs in the Hall Of Fame.
Without bonds or Clements in the Hall of Fame you can keep it means nothing to me now
Unlike Rose, neither Clemens or Bonds ever got caught riding dirty so they should be judged on their career and not what they’ve allegedly gotten away with.
I agree but it’s hard to judge when the competition is unbalanced. I personally think Barry Bonds is the greatest player in the history of baseball, but if you let him in, you’ve gotta let all the roiders in.
Bonds I believe and the Roids guys I believe are the only reason Fred McGriff isn't in. Inflated stats made folks who didn't use look pedestrian.
Facts man, like rose too in my opinion, it's s travesty Clemens still not in the HOF
@@christopherwilliams2351 you can include the ones who played before testing but refuse the guys who tested positive.
@@christopherwilliams2351 nope 👎 just Clemens Rocket 🚀 and B. Bonds!!! Has to happen 😤😤😤
Keep him out. All of you people suggesting otherwise are weirdos. Want cheaters in the hall
He would have been regardless of steroids just like Bonds but what do we expect from MLB HOF. There's NO MURPHY or MATTINGLY & that's an injustice in itself.
Plus, Clemens had to because just about every hitter was juiced.
Not to mention, that MLB higher ups new what was going on so why didn't they do something about it earlier because it was putting butts in the seats & tv money. When it got way outta control MLB was like: What're they doing we're going to have to stop this since "WE JUST FOUND OUT" WINK WINK -
Everybody knows the case for Clemens, and the case against Clemens
I have no problem with him getting in, or being held out
I'm good, either way. He's a Hall of Famer to me, just like Rose and Bonds
And McGwire, Sosa and Palmeiro, right?
@@josegil1775 Not really even probably should be too, but ROGER Rocket 🚀 and Barry are in a different category altogether! I could live with anyone getting in or not except them!!!! 😳🤯😤
All the roided players should just come clean
Absolutely 💯 he should be in, but I bet he doesn't live long enough to make a speech.
🥺😩😧☹️😤
couldn't the veterans committee just put them in like they did with harold baines?
Enshrine. 7 Cy Youngs. Majority of players were doing it. Hitters and Pitchers. A case can be made that he is the greatest pitcher of all-time. (probably isn't but a case can be made nonetheless) If Roger isn't a Hall of Famer, then the Hall of Fame doesn't mean anything.
if the same writers were voting for him to win the CYY then don't vote for him getting into the hall ... HYPOCRITES!
I don't see whose a better all time pitcher than Clemens...at least statistically.
Cancel baseball. Rose, Bonds, or Clemens not in.
It's not even up for debate that he belongs in the HOF. He was the dominant pitcher for over 10 years, his stats don't lie.
Only if he can fight piazza and win on the front steps of Hof
I remember when these stories broke out it was devastating to the game of baseball I believe steroids enhanced the game
Bonds and Clemens should be in Cooperstown, especially Bonds.
BOTH, period!! 😤😤🏆🎖🏆🚀⚾️🚀⚾️
If u let Clemons in then rose and shoeless joe jackson
Yes he should be in . No doubt. People would be amazed at who actually took the juice either to get over an injury or the obvious. He never broke any MLB rule at that TIME.
Clemens should have been first ballot. People think Steroids are this magic thing..
He won at least 1 Cy Young for every team he played for. Won in the AL and NL.
His workout routine was one of the most strenuous and alot of guys half his age couldn't make it thru.
He's hands down the best pitcher of his time and pretty close if not of all time.
He doesn't need the HOF the HOF needs him.
Steroids help with intensity and recovery from workouts. It makes sense that some guys half his age cant get through them.
This ^
@OGTirpleOG Ryan could into his 40's. Guess it was roids
Pete Rose is the real missing piece in Cooperstown.
I’m curious. Is it the liberal writers that are keeping the steroid era guys out of the HOF? First and foremost “PETE ROSE” should be the next ball player put in the HOF.
If you’re playing against other players that are doing it. What is wrong? Bonds and Clemens belong in the Hall of Fame.period
Three Cy Young awards (should've been four - he was robbed of one in 1990) and an MVP by the age of 28. Of course, he should be in HOF.
So tired of steroid use as the reason keeping Bonds and Clemens out. Jeremy Giambi, an admitted steroid user during his 6 year career, retired with 372 hits and a .263 average. For every Bonds and Clemens, they’re hundreds of other players who actually tested positive whose careers never amounted to anything. I thought steroids was the magic bullet that elevates a player’s skill set to All Star levels? It’s a BS excuse really. These two, along with A-Rod, and Palmeiro need to be elected to the HOF.
if the same writers voted for him to win cy young awards year after year HOWEVER didn't vote for him to be in the hall ... HYPOCRITES!
Deserves his spot in the Hall of Fame of Fame . Complete Pitcher , nothing was ever proven that he used steroids . It’s just guilty by association
Clemens is the same size roughly. Just fatter. The splitter changed the game for Roger.
Him, Bonds, and Manny need in, not to mention mark n Sammy. Absolutely ridiculous that the few are being punished for the crimes of the many.
The only reason Roger Clemens, is not a Hall of Famer, is to justify to keep Barry Bonds, out. Because if you let Clemens, in and not Bonds, they will get accused of being racist!!!
Does) and not trying to tear them down and u might find that the fans will come back to this great game!!
Unless Roger Clemens is in the Hall of Fame, I will never visit because the best players of all time are not there. It’s not really the Hall of Fame.
He's 3rd all time in strikeouts. He should be in.
He's not politically correct.
Only reason he isn't in.
If Bud Selig is in, then Clemens, Bonds & Rodriguez should be too
Debate? The only think keeping him out are the self-righteous sports writers
Hall of shame. Steve Garvey should be in.
Let him in!
You got to let Roger in and bonds in Rose,
Just don't let him make a speech,.
Let a man but they can't talk at the ceremony, you shut them up
No!!! If they were to let Pete, ROGER ROCKET 🚀 🚀 🚀 and BARRY in, I would want to be in Cooperstown to hear them!!! 🏆⚾️⚾️🎖⚾️⚾️🏆
Roger Clemens should have been put in the Hall of Fame before he was even considered. He is the greatest pitcher that ever lived, the most consistent, the most competitive, and the toughest. I've watched him his whole career. He had greatness from the very beginning, and it had nothing to do with performance enhancing drugs or HGH. What made him great was his work regimen, he was the hardest working player that ever lived, his workout regimen before games was second to none. What is very ignorant to me is how people judged him when he left Boston and went to Toronto. The only thing that changed was that they were supporting him with runs and the bullpen was saving his games, that was the only difference, his performance was the same in his last years in Boston as it was in the beginning of Toronto. Jose Canseco pointed that out. The last few years with Boston he was a hard luck pitcher. He just simply did not get any support to put up great numbers those years in Boston. His fortune changed in Toronto but it had nothing to do with performance enhancing drugs or anything else. If people really paid attention to the actual games he pitched his performance was not that much better in Toronto at all. I had noticed right away that they were scoring for him when he pitched, the relievers were saving his games rather than blowing them like they did in Boston. He was always great, even in the tougher years, he was always great. To be a successful pitcher depends more on just your own performance. Kelly Downs is a perfect example of that. He was the most hard luck pitcher I ever saw. Clemens was a special player, one that comes around once in a lifetime. He was the very best pictcher I ever saw. It's just terrible the way the baseball Hall of Fame is keeping him out, it's because of jealousy. That's really the only reason. He was acquitted in the US court system because they couldn't find anything on him, that should have been far more good enough to put him in the Hall of Fame. When he came out and said, if I'm using, would the provider please come forward and reveal yourself? If he would have been using steroids, his body would have broke down, like what happens to other players that have used it, he did not break down, it was his workout regimen that made him durable and effective, nothing else. I am truly ashamed of the baseball writers that have kept him out, it's the most hypocritical situation I've ever seen, I'm just disgusted with baseball after this had taken place. If you have no proof on the guy, how can you keep him out of the Hall of Fame? It's purely disgraceful. Unlike all the other players that have been kept out, they all had something on record, they have nothing on Clemens, and an accusation made by a shady trainer should definitely not keep him out. To keep Roger Clemens out of the baseball Hall of Fame is truly a disgrace to the game itself
Decline! Or require asterisks for all steroid HOFers.
He clearly started juicing when he got to Toronto
Enshrine
If non of the steroid batters get into Hall why Clemons
Stop this nonsense and put him and barry in its not even a debate
Baseball is a joke and the writers are an even bigger joke.
Hall of Shame for you JUICER..😂😂😂😂😂😂
Its rather simple..make hall of shame
..
100% HOF. Sad he not in.
No room in the Hall for steroids.
How does Bud the Ostrich Selig get into HOF but the players don't. HOF voters lost all credibility. Your All a Joke!
If they don't get in, its their fault.
U mean 😭 the BBWAA or MLB, etc. 😤😶🌫️
Nope.
He deserves the hall of fame. I couldn't care less what he took. Those drugs are completely legal in most cases and can be obtained from a doctor. What will they ban next? Exercise?
Let him in
Enshrine
Bear mode
There is no case against period hypocrites posing as writers are messing up the hall
I'd take him as my #1 draft pick ....today ...voters are shameless
If they won't put them in the Hall of Fame about we start the Hall of infamy
You can't say Barry Bonds gets in and Rodger Clemens does not or you can say Rodger Clemens gets in and Barry Bonds doesn't. You can't have it two ways you either put them both in or they both be out. The resumes is almost similar the difference is 1 is a position player and the other is a starting pitcher. Both start their careers in the 1980s. Many people say that there are a package deal and I agree. I think we're always selling the fact that this guy winning 7 Cy young Awards, don't forget this guy struck out 20 hitters in a single game and by the way he's the first to do that in major league history he's also the only man to this very day to do it twice that's not steroids. He was already a first-ballot hall-of-famer and the same could be said about Barry Bonds he had multiple 30-30 seasons 5 times and before steroids 400/400 Club. Already a Hall of Famer. Other accomplishments for the two. Bonds has a record of 12 silver Sluggers and Clements has seven era titles
Bruh stop it steroids or no steroids this guy is one of the greatest pitcher ever so you mean to tell me of you take steroids you can be roger bruh shut up
Exactly!!! 🚫💯❌🆘‼️❕
I think he should be part of the HoF. Not, that I like what he did, but the roids-era was created by MLB and the fans. Lots of players were part of it and now everybody wants to punish a couple of guys, who got caught after we all enjoyed the hr battles with McGuire or Bonds or great pitching duels with guys like Clemens. Ppl are ignoring the fact, that probably most of the players did it even those, who don't look like Barry or Roger.