It might be helpful to understand _why_ the two products work differently. Flow improver reduces the surface tension of the paint - slower dry time is a secondary effect, but more importantly it lets the paint cover the surface more evenly. It's why, back in the day, some painters made washes by adding a drop of liquid dish soap. Airbrush thinner, on the other hand, is a solvent. It thins by breaking down the binders and medium - reducing the overall viscosity of the paint, whereas with flow improver, viscosity is only affected by the addition of the less viscous fluid of the flow improver itself.
It's not a clog with speed paints. Its almost certainly dry tip, most novice air brush users don't have enough nozzle control and understanding on how to stop spraying. When you finish spraying paint don't let go immediately. Let the trigger return near close but continue to let air run. This will prevent dry tip which most users confuse with clogging. It's always good to use flow improver especially when you have a lot of models to batch paint.
*Thanks so much for calling out which paints tend to work with one and not the other.* Most of the other videos either seem to not really know the difference or just say to use a bit of both (which may not be a bad rule of thumb). I just got an airbrush, and was thinking "people actually like vallejo?? this is terrible." Despite playing with pressure, thinning, pressure and thinning, it just kept clogging so bad. I'd clear it, get a few bursts of clean spray, then it would clog again. I've now spent 2 evenings researching, and this stands out for being on the short list of most clear and simple videos.
Thanks for doing this video . This is a technique I have been recently exposed to . I'm still playing with it and working on mixture ratios ect between Vallejo Primer and Stynerez Primer . Also using it with AK 3rd gen painting for armor models . Thanks again I gained more knowledge from your video
Perfect timing, was just looking for someone who had done a thinner vs flow improver breakdown! thinking of using flow improver to add to my washes/extremely thinned paints for recess shading
I build mostly military subjects and switched to almost entirely acrylic paints several years ago (think the original Model Master acrylics, before the Acryl line). For most acrylics I add a few drops of flow improver then add thinner to get the consistency I want for airbrushing. As far as primers go, I really like Badger Stynylrez and if used with a 0.5mm nozzle minimum, it does not tend to dry on the needle tip. I like this to-the-point video! As one person commented, I suggest folks experiment a little bit to see how their paint/thinner/flow improver mix is going to work.
THANK YOU! I literally was using that same brand of airbrush thinner with a grey Vallejo primer and it clogged just like you said. I'm new to airbrushing and this video helped explain things a lot and why I was having issues.
It's not one or the other. To get paint through a detail AB you need to thin and even strain some paints. Max flow improver I've added to an AB cup was about 5 drops to already thinned 50/50 paint - instructions recommend 1-2 drops.
Thank you. This helps a lot. Question: Would you advise to use thinner to thin the paint and mix flow improver in to also reduce drying time? Appreciate the video.
Ok soo I know your talking of airbrushing, I have a question on brush painting and flow improver. The original warpaint line from the army painter are naturally thick even after a solid mix... some colors being absolutely so thick even after removing dropper top and stirring getting a great mix of pigment and medium, its still impossible to hear the ball bearing shaking around. I know not to add water to the bottles, the water becomes stagnant over time and will smell awful 🤮 However, if I added a flow improver say 1-6 drops (drop count varies per color/pigment) per paint bottle, would it be a good idea or would I ruin them? Again, this is for brush painting. Being able to thin down with out breaking the paint/medium mix. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated. My stir method, i use a skinny stainless rod sorts like a metal coat hanger and I rounded a long hook 🪝 at its bottom about an inch in length. The complete stir rod is 5inches in length. I attach it to my power drill and stir it well. Works perfect, but some of these paints are still just thick almost like a gel clay lol
Good video thank you, now the curve ball > Army painter airbrush medium. It's both a thinner and flow improver combined. I heard works well with golds and Metalicas.
A few drops of flow improver before loading thinner and then paint, mixed in the cup. I use Vallejo model color thinned by eye exclusively and dont have any problems with clogging. A few drops of the improver coats the needle. And you also should use the right thinner with the paint your using. You wouldnt want to use Tamiya thinner and Vallejo paint.I dont thin primer at all, ever.
I have had a hate/hate relationship with vallejo primers. It got so bad that I just stopped painting at all ...every single time I sat down to paint anything, it almost immediately resulted in airbrush clogging followed by complete stripdown. I found retarder medium made a huge difference in tip-drying. OR, if you have proper ventilation (stinky) just get Mr.Surfacer 1200 grey primer with Mr.Color leveling thinner. AP and vallejo acrylics are still very very good...I just never got along with their primers.
Good video, straight to the point, nice. I stumbled across another similar video a couple of weeks ago you might want to try, he was using a mix of both. In a dropper bottle put 70% Flow Improver+30% Thinner and then a top up of retarder/glycerine. I've been using it for a couple of weeks and so far it's definitely improved my results, especially with Vallejo Primer, I've never gotten it as smooth as it is going on with this formula. It's not exact either those are just a rough guide to mark on the bottle to give you a place to stop
While I do appreciate the effort in making a quick video, this confused the hell out of me as a beginner. You claim flow improver is for reducing drying time to prevent clogged needles, however, when using it together with an air paint I still suffered clogging. The unfortunate answer I got after a lot of searching and reading is to actually use both, depending on what paint to use. A broad sweeping generalization of "flow improver with acrylics" caused me a lot of problems early on.
Following these instructions ruined 3 weeks of hard work on a bunch of Shatterpoint Terrain I had been working on. Little did I know flow improver is *75% glycerin*. It should NOT be used as a replacement for thinner. Instead it caused all of my paint to become reactivated under any moisture, I'm absolutely devastated at how much time and effort I've lost following this video.
Sorry to hear that. I did a test on a few mini's after I saw this and had 0 issue. It might be that the Acetate in the Flow improver reacted with the paint? I included the MSDS sheet below for it as well. Since I haven't had any issue I cant say what might have caused it. I have used both intermixed and still have not has an issue. I did give the model 7-8 hrs or curing time between sprays. acrylicosvallejo.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/SDS-Airbrush-Flow-Improver-2018-1.pdf
I'm trying to think of what advice is even in this video that you would have followed that lead to such an outcome. He literally just tells us how they behave differently. He didn't recommend using one on certain paints or projects. Unless you're just saying that using flow improver AT ALL ruined your project and like... how is that this guys fault?
Whilst this video might be generally informative, it is full of generalisations, inaccuracies, misinformation, and information totally contrary to the manufacturer's instructions. For example, "... airbrush thinners do not work well with primers, thick acrylics...". In the case of the displayed Vallejo products, the manufacturer's instructions clearly state they are the only things to be used with primers. Again, in the case of the displayed Vallejo products, the manufacturer's instructions are explicitly clear what they are used for and the affect they have when mixed with paints/primers. If you mix brands of paints, thinners, and/or flow improvers, it can often lead to unfavorable results, at best, and disastrous results, at worst. Golden Rule 101 of airbrushing, use the same brand products for paints, thinners, and flow improvers. Oh, and I did not need to produce a five minute video of misinformation for this advice. 🤣
@@cellardwellerproductions5125 Good for you young one, but you seem to be terribly confused. I do not create content so do not hold your breath waiting for something that does not and will not happen. 🤔
It might be helpful to understand _why_ the two products work differently. Flow improver reduces the surface tension of the paint - slower dry time is a secondary effect, but more importantly it lets the paint cover the surface more evenly. It's why, back in the day, some painters made washes by adding a drop of liquid dish soap.
Airbrush thinner, on the other hand, is a solvent. It thins by breaking down the binders and medium - reducing the overall viscosity of the paint, whereas with flow improver, viscosity is only affected by the addition of the less viscous fluid of the flow improver itself.
It's not a clog with speed paints. Its almost certainly dry tip, most novice air brush users don't have enough nozzle control and understanding on how to stop spraying. When you finish spraying paint don't let go immediately. Let the trigger return near close but continue to let air run. This will prevent dry tip which most users confuse with clogging. It's always good to use flow improver especially when you have a lot of models to batch paint.
"most novice air brush users don't have enough nozzle control"
*Puts hand up slowly
It is very important to spray air bother before and after paint. This is why dual-action triggers are super helpful.
🙏 thank you, I'm new to this and I've been struggling with the learning curve.. I feel like this is my main issue. Glad I read the comments
My man! Surprisingly hard to find this info laid out this succinctly. Appreciate it!
*Thanks so much for calling out which paints tend to work with one and not the other.*
Most of the other videos either seem to not really know the difference or just say to use a bit of both (which may not be a bad rule of thumb).
I just got an airbrush, and was thinking "people actually like vallejo?? this is terrible."
Despite playing with pressure, thinning, pressure and thinning, it just kept clogging so bad. I'd clear it, get a few bursts of clean spray, then it would clog again. I've now spent 2 evenings researching, and this stands out for being on the short list of most clear and simple videos.
Thanks for doing this video . This is a technique I have been recently exposed to . I'm still playing with it and working on mixture ratios ect between Vallejo Primer and Stynerez Primer . Also using it with AK 3rd gen painting for armor models . Thanks again I gained more knowledge from your video
Perfect timing, was just looking for someone who had done a thinner vs flow improver breakdown! thinking of using flow improver to add to my washes/extremely thinned paints for recess shading
OMG, THANK YOU! That make's so much sense, and explains why I'm always gunking up my airbrush.
I build mostly military subjects and switched to almost entirely acrylic paints several years ago (think the original Model Master acrylics, before the Acryl line). For most acrylics I add a few drops of flow improver then add thinner to get the consistency I want for airbrushing. As far as primers go, I really like Badger Stynylrez and if used with a 0.5mm nozzle minimum, it does not tend to dry on the needle tip. I like this to-the-point video! As one person commented, I suggest folks experiment a little bit to see how their paint/thinner/flow improver mix is going to work.
THANK YOU! I literally was using that same brand of airbrush thinner with a grey Vallejo primer and it clogged just like you said. I'm new to airbrushing and this video helped explain things a lot and why I was having issues.
Thank you for spending the time doing this.
Exactly the info that I needed. Thank you!
Thanks dude this really helps. I was having trouble with this.
THANK YOU! I needed to know which one to buy as a noob here... I did'nt wanna waste more money!
Very helpful and not unnecessarily bloated 👍
It's not one or the other.
To get paint through a detail AB you need to thin and even strain some paints.
Max flow improver I've added to an AB cup was about 5 drops to already thinned 50/50 paint - instructions recommend 1-2 drops.
Very helpful! Just what I needed.
I have been struggling, thank you for your video for clarifying what does what. Do you have any advices with metallics or whites?
Thank you. This helps a lot. Question: Would you advise to use thinner to thin the paint and mix flow improver in to also reduce drying time?
Appreciate the video.
Excellent tutorial! Thank you for posting. Subd!
I'm always using few drops of the Thinner together with the Speedpaints. Works well for me.
Erm Jet Dry (dishwasher swill) is a VERY concentrated Surfactant.
As in ; One small bottle is a Lifetime supply for an Airbrush weenie.. Yer welcome.
I use flow improver with 99% of the acrylic paint I use nowadays, including contrast/xpress/transparent paints. Brush on only. It’s a game changer.
does it not work well when airbrushing? does the flow improver help with brush strokes?
Great insight! I was wondering what about mixing them together?
Ok soo I know your talking of airbrushing, I have a question on brush painting and flow improver. The original warpaint line from the army painter are naturally thick even after a solid mix... some colors being absolutely so thick even after removing dropper top and stirring getting a great mix of pigment and medium, its still impossible to hear the ball bearing shaking around. I know not to add water to the bottles, the water becomes stagnant over time and will smell awful 🤮 However, if I added a flow improver say 1-6 drops (drop count varies per color/pigment) per paint bottle, would it be a good idea or would I ruin them? Again, this is for brush painting. Being able to thin down with out breaking the paint/medium mix. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated. My stir method, i use a skinny stainless rod sorts like a metal coat hanger and I rounded a long hook 🪝 at its bottom about an inch in length. The complete stir rod is 5inches in length. I attach it to my power drill and stir it well. Works perfect, but some of these paints are still just thick almost like a gel clay lol
Good video thank you, now the curve ball > Army painter airbrush medium. It's both a thinner and flow improver combined. I heard works well with golds and Metalicas.
What about water, compared with the other two?
Hi. maybe silly question, is OK to issue thinner to reduce the density of the paint and then add air flow improver ? thanks
A few drops of flow improver before loading thinner and then paint, mixed in the cup. I use Vallejo model color thinned by eye exclusively and dont have any problems with clogging. A few drops of the improver coats the needle. And you also should use the right thinner with the paint your using. You wouldnt want to use Tamiya thinner and Vallejo paint.I dont thin primer at all, ever.
Let's go!
I have had a hate/hate relationship with vallejo primers. It got so bad that I just stopped painting at all ...every single time I sat down to paint anything, it almost immediately resulted in airbrush clogging followed by complete stripdown. I found retarder medium made a huge difference in tip-drying. OR, if you have proper ventilation (stinky) just get Mr.Surfacer 1200 grey primer with Mr.Color leveling thinner. AP and vallejo acrylics are still very very good...I just never got along with their primers.
I had the same thing happen to me. I don't like Vallejo primer.
How many drops improver and how many for primer from vallejo
Good video, straight to the point, nice. I stumbled across another similar video a couple of weeks ago you might want to try, he was using a mix of both. In a dropper bottle put 70% Flow Improver+30% Thinner and then a top up of retarder/glycerine. I've been using it for a couple of weeks and so far it's definitely improved my results, especially with Vallejo Primer, I've never gotten it as smooth as it is going on with this formula. It's not exact either those are just a rough guide to mark on the bottle to give you a place to stop
While I do appreciate the effort in making a quick video, this confused the hell out of me as a beginner. You claim flow improver is for reducing drying time to prevent clogged needles, however, when using it together with an air paint I still suffered clogging. The unfortunate answer I got after a lot of searching and reading is to actually use both, depending on what paint to use. A broad sweeping generalization of "flow improver with acrylics" caused me a lot of problems early on.
I use a combo of 70-30 thinner to flow improver seems to work well.Throw in a few drops of retarder works even better!
What about a combo of both
Not a bad video and good information the only problem I see is the leafs mug, completely destroyed an otherwise decent vid.
Ничего не понял но было интересно )
Good video but go canucks go 😂
Blackhawks fan here, NHL needs a Canadian cup winner.
Great video but that coffee cup needs tossed in the trash can. 😊
vallejo primer aint thick
Following these instructions ruined 3 weeks of hard work on a bunch of Shatterpoint Terrain I had been working on. Little did I know flow improver is *75% glycerin*. It should NOT be used as a replacement for thinner. Instead it caused all of my paint to become reactivated under any moisture, I'm absolutely devastated at how much time and effort I've lost following this video.
Sorry to hear that. I did a test on a few mini's after I saw this and had 0 issue. It might be that the Acetate in the Flow improver reacted with the paint? I included the MSDS sheet below for it as well. Since I haven't had any issue I cant say what might have caused it. I have used both intermixed and still have not has an issue. I did give the model 7-8 hrs or curing time between sprays.
acrylicosvallejo.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/SDS-Airbrush-Flow-Improver-2018-1.pdf
If you didn't test a bit first then you should blame you.
I'm trying to think of what advice is even in this video that you would have followed that lead to such an outcome. He literally just tells us how they behave differently. He didn't recommend using one on certain paints or projects. Unless you're just saying that using flow improver AT ALL ruined your project and like... how is that this guys fault?
That is not the fault of Average Hobby - we’re responsible for our own product use and this video still provides helpful tips
What a moron, always do a test mini. What's the point in attempting to blame the video and creator
Whilst this video might be generally informative, it is full of generalisations, inaccuracies, misinformation, and information totally contrary to the manufacturer's instructions. For example, "... airbrush thinners do not work well with primers, thick acrylics...". In the case of the displayed Vallejo products, the manufacturer's instructions clearly state they are the only things to be used with primers. Again, in the case of the displayed Vallejo products, the manufacturer's instructions are explicitly clear what they are used for and the affect they have when mixed with paints/primers. If you mix brands of paints, thinners, and/or flow improvers, it can often lead to unfavorable results, at best, and disastrous results, at worst. Golden Rule 101 of airbrushing, use the same brand products for paints, thinners, and flow improvers. Oh, and I did not need to produce a five minute video of misinformation for this advice. 🤣
I subscribed to your channel there lad, so as soon as you post your video I’ll be notified.
Thanks
@@cellardwellerproductions5125 Good for you young one, but you seem to be terribly confused. I do not create content so do not hold your breath waiting for something that does not and will not happen. 🤔
Hi great video! I'm going to risk asking a stupid question, is there a difference between 'reducer' and 'thinner'?