Hobby Cheating 135 - Guide to Paint Additives
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- For this Hobby Cheating Tutorial, I take you through many common paint additives such as Thinner Medium, Flow Improver, Retardent Medium and Surfactant. I explain what they do and how you can put them to use. Hope you enjoy!
Twitter: @warhammerweekly
Vince's RPG Podcast: itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/u... - เกม
I only recently painted my first fig. And everyone is saying I did quite well for a first mini.. and that's thanks to you. I've watched most your videos before i ever put any paint onto my first mini. Thanks vince
That's awesome! Happy to help in any way I can on your hobby journey.
@Vince Venturella Is there an alternative to warcolours? Thanks!
@@ryanajableVallejo all the way, simple to use, very cheap, excellent range with some choice starter kits.
Just buy the colors you want for your next model and start there
Great video(s). I love it (as a retired engineer) when someone explains 'how' something works. It enables me to fully understand and apply what I've learned. Thank You
Thank you very much! That is always my goal.
OMFG thank you so much for this video. There are so many brands and bad (non-standard) terminology between the community for the products. It makes this stupid confusing to newbies like me. Additionally, how you demonstrate and detail the different portions is aces.
Another great video Venice!
Thank you, happy to help as always. :)
Great video! Additives can be such a mystery and no one seems to ever explain them, huge help.
How have I only just found your channel? In my quest to step up my painting from table top to display pieces, this channel is proving worth its weight in gold!
Thank you, very much appreciated and always glad to help. :)
Thank you so much for this, I am becoming a huge fan of your work! It's so nice to see everything explained together instead of trying to piece it together from different sources. Your lattice explanation made a lot of sense to me, I've never had it explained like this.
Thank you, I appreciate that and happy to help as always. :)
Out of all the various "how to" video guides, yours are proving to be the most informative! No one breaks down the basics the way you do. I've pulled more tips from you than 20 other channels combined. Thank you!
Well thank you, that is a wonderful compliment and I am always happy to help. :)
This is an insanely helpful video. Just got back into painting miniatures after 10 years and learning the what and whys of all these new additives is crazy helpful.
Thank you, happy to help as always. :)
Thanks, you answered questions I've had on each of the four products for some time. You do a great job of explaining the what's and why's.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for posting! I always learn something interesting & USEFUL from your hobby cheats! Thanks for sharing your experience & expertise
Awesome, happy to help as always. :)
@Vince Venturella, this is an absolute gold dust video that is filled with great gems, helping myself and many others understand the BASICS of what each of the 4 mentioned additives do, rather than guessing and hoping for the best and I'm truly grateful to you for taking the time to put this video together.
As this video is mainly helping hobbyists like myself work out which of the mentioned additives do what to paint and which one to add for their benefits, I don't really care about the behind the scenes distinction grade 20 chemistry, or what ever else some of you got at school/collage or university and I'm very pleased that it is helping you to further your education, but why even bother leaving a comment.
Vince is trying to give people like myself the basic understanding of which products do what to our paint, so that we can enjoy our hobby a lot more, understanding how each of the four mentioned additives work, we're not at university learning the intricate details at how atoms bounce off of one another or what else it is that you have learnt. I have cancer for the second time as well as heart failure, a fitted pace maker and kidney grade 4 disease, if your education far supersedes what most of us on here got in our school results, then go into the hospitals and help save lives instead of picking holes in what I believe is a brilliant and really well educated video.
Please if you can't appreciate the man is just trying to help us understand the basics, then maybe just not comment at all.
Well thank you very much, I appreciate it greatly and I am always happy to help. :)
Great video, thanks for this, I find it really helpful to understand exactly how my tools work. I'm going to have to get some flow improver.
Thank you, happy to assist as always. :)
It makes such a difference in the learning process to have the Why explained and be given examples, and you nailed that. They really should put this information on the bottles themselves, or else how are we supposed to learn? Thank you!
Happy to help as always!
had a shit day. so happy to come home and just dive into learning to paint some more. I've got a few minis under my belt now. Had a lot of success learning some of the basics with the reaper mini how to paint kit. It definitely comes out looking a little old school but it taught me a ton learning how to thin paint and shade with just nooby water washes.
This is the best video on the topic on youtube. It’s a shame i can upvote it only once! Thank you vince
Thank you, that means a great deal and is deeply appreciated.
Vince, excellent video. I’m new to miniature painting and was having fits blending acrylics for facial flesh tones... until now! Will be trying these soon. Thanks!
Awesome, happy to help as always. :)
Hi vince
Love the tips and tutorials. Could you please do a video on how to mix flow aids , Matte mediums and most of all thinning paint to a workable consistency. I know videos do exist but I believe your time and patience and explaining things is priceless. Many thanks and all the best
Sure, I will add it to the list. I try to show in my other videos on the palette when I am doing so, but I can absolutely see a video dedicated to it.
Your most informative vid, ive seen. Thanks for making this. I didn't know that there were so many useful additives.
THank you, happy to help as always. :)
While water can be used as a thinner for acrylics, so can some (many? all?) alcohols. Propylene glycol is pretty common. The nice thing about that is that the thinners are typically miscible with water, so you can add water to further thin the mixture.
There are a couple of other things that are commonly used in hobby paints by the manufacturer:
Matting agent - Acrylic is naturally quite glossy; in order to get a matte surface, you have to kill the gloss, either in the paint or with a matte sealer. This can be any of a variety of things, including talc. To get a matte surface, you have to scatter light such that you don't get a front-surface (specular) reflection. Unfortunately, that scattering will reduce the saturation of the underlying color. (You can get much more saturated colors with glossy surfaces.)
Opacifier - Many pigments are quite translucent. To reduce that translucency, you need to add something that will reduce the light going all the way through to the underlying surface. Small amounts of titanium white do this quite well for bright colors, but again, this will reduce the saturation of the pigment.
Also, a terminology note: Flow improver _is_ surfactant. (See this page for instance: www.goldenpaints.com/technicalinfo_flreleas). This is not to say that all surfactants/flow improvers are the same, but they're all the same category.
One final note (because it's a very common fallacy, not because you say it here): the difference between good paint and cheap paint has nothing to do with pigment grain size. To get a specific color, you have to have pigment grains within a very small range of a specified value. Get outside of that range and the color will change. In fact, all the paint manufacturers buy their pigments from the same small list of pigment manufacturers, and one batch of titanium white (or whatever) pigment is pretty much exactly the same as any other.
What is the actual difference between good and cheap paint then?
So...what does the difference?
@@MrSJPowell Medium makes a huge difference and so does colour consistency.
I disagree with the poster that pigment size has no bearing, but it isn't the be all end all.
It usually ends up being a "best for my usage" scenario, rather than being overall best.
So can you just buy powder pigment from an art shop and make your own miniature paint using medium and water?
@@Tom_- lil late but yes you can. it'll take some time experimenting to get the correct mixing ratios tho. and eyes out for pigment sizes
edit: also be cautious when fiddling around with pigment powders since a. inhaling fine particles is never a good idea and b. some pigments tent to be really toxic for humans (like cadmium - commonly used for reds)
imo artist grade colours are preferable since they list the pigment used and therefore greatly increase your knowledge for mixing and matching hobby colours (also better price)
Cool vid, good info, I have a bottle of Vallejo reducer and never used it because I really had no idea what it really did. Thank you
Excellent, happy to help as always. :)
New to mini painting, thank you for everything you do in your videos! You're vids are awesome!
Awesome! Thank you! Always happy to help and welcome to the hobby journey, I have a specific playlist for beginners with all the basics for it - th-cam.com/play/PLcdsbwBroEmCplpQ_s3jSuxW8-1KQrsfT.html
I been painting minis for 32 years. I finally understand on a physical level now. Thank you
Glad I could help!
Very helpful video, explaining technical reasoning behind things without being over our heads, +1 Subscriber from Australia Cheers :)
Wonderful to hear and glad it was helpful. Happy to have you along on the hobby journey. :)
I didn't understand why many good painters suggest a tiny drop of dish soap in the water...seemed counterintuitive. I'm beginning to "get" how/why painting minis is SO DIFFERENT than painting larger items & canvases. SUPER HELPFUL VIDEO, THANKS!!!❤👍👍❤
Exactly! There is much the same, but there is a lot unique as well.
The technical knowledge you impart in you videos is just so good! Thanks.
Also if you could mix your audio just a big louder it would help.
Thanks, will do!
Ways Ive heard the word Surfactant pronounced:
Sir-fact-ant
Sir-fact-ent
Surf-act-ant
Sirf-act-ent
Sir-fac-tent
Ser-fact-unt
(Any of the above but with the F-bomb dropped in instead of ‘fact’
But I’ve never heard it pronounced sur-fect-ent until today.
Keep doing you Vince.
I will find a way to pronounce any word wrong, I promise. :)
It's Sir-Fact-Ent :)
I’ve always said sir-FEC-tent.
@@VinceVenturella it doesn't really matter how you pronounce it, it will be different in every country in the world and indeed different pronunciations within each country, whats more important is that you explained beautifully what it does.
That's exactly what I needed right now. Seeing you using additives in your videos made me experiment with them some weeks ago. And last week my order with all sorts of additives was delivered.
Thanks a lot!
Awesome, happy to help!
As a chemistry teacher I just have to point out that water molecules are held to each other by hydrogen bonds not covalent bonds :P Covalent bonds are what holds the oxygen to the hydrogen atoms.
Fair enough, all my research says that it's disrupting. But yet, it makes what ever happens when the water stops having strong cohesion. :)
Chemistry teacher here too and I had a slight twitch in my eyelid there as well :D
But it's just a small point in an otherwise very interesting video.
Yous aren't very good teachers because you would need to explain what the bonds do to actually get the point across. Also to expand that. This is a painting tutorial not a chemistry one and the point that the bonds seperate easily is the only important factor here. If you get it correct and call it a hydrogen bond might be appropriate for a school test but it's pretty irrelevant here/in real life.
@@jakea3950 christ, dude, be silent...
@@MrKfadratHow about you Fuck off Marcin and go get a real name 🖕
This is very helpful info. I will use this to improve my 1:35 scale model faces. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
This was a very educational and usefull video. I needed that teaching. Thank you Professor! 👍
Always happy to help.
I am pleased that my field of study is referred to as "super man's house." Great video, and super informative.
I mean, it's a pretty good field for sure. ;)
Great video as always. A couple of questions:
1. I have seen products called "reducers" and "extenders" What are they?
2. What about matte medium, and glaze mediums? how do they fit into this?
3. Would and airbrush thinner be a combination of thinner, and flow improver?
1) Reducer will generally equal thinner (i.e. bonding agent, thinning without changing basic properties). Extender = retardent medium.
2) They are all mediums (so bonding agents) that will thin without changing the fundamental properties. They can also ad a finish (i.e. gloss medium, matte medium).
3) Usually yes, though there is some variance amongst brands, but that is what I understand vallejo to be.
Another great tutorial to improve our miniature painting skills. Thank you so much! I'm improving a lot. Thanks to your videos. ;-)
That's awesome to hear. Always happy to help. :)
@@VinceVenturella and the best thing is that it is completely true. Thank you.
Hi Vince, great video! Quick question on flow-aid: do you always have to dillute it in water before mixing it with your paints? Or is that only for liquitex's flowaid (and not for warcolours for example). Thanks!
It's for liquitex flow aid. That shit is *strong*. Other flow inprovers made for model painting are already diluted and ready to go.
I wondered this exact thing, thanks!
Very helpful, thanks Vince!
Excellent, happy to help as always.
Thank you for making this video. Very informative ❤️🙂
Thank you, happy to help as always. :)
Hi. Thanks. For me, your video comes 10 years too late. I had to search and read a lot to get this information. Your information correct as per my research also.You have simplified this a lot for us. Interestingly most manufacturers do not disclose the chemical contents of their products. This makes it harder for us to come up with a home made solution for people like me who do not have access to most modeling paints and products. I would like to just point out that flow aid also causes paint to self level once it is laid on. This is important for airbrushing. I wish you could do a video on the same topic but apply it to air brushing.
Great video. Many thanks. Regards
Great additional item, I'll see what I can do. :)
I never thought it'd be so interesting to spend 20 minutes watching paint dry.
Thanks for the tutorial. Awesome as usual. I still feel like confused as to whether I want to use Vallejo "Thinner Medium" or "Glaze Medium" or something else... but I'm getting a sense that learning to get your paints to exactly the right consistency and the right amount on your brush (I suspect that's where I often go wrong) is a matter of experience/practice... Most of the time, what I would like is a lightly thinned paint that is transparent. What I often get instead is a wash (too much medium?), or not quite a wash but something that spills out everywhere into the cracks (too much on the brush?) or no pigment left on my brush (wicked too much off? or too much medium?), or something too opaque (not enough medium).
Also, let's see if I got this right, but I get a sense that "thinner medium" is a combination of solvent and medium (acrylic), and glaze medium is a combination of flow improver, solvent and retardant... but maybe I got this wrong. It's weird because based on how they're described I would have expected "thinner medium" to just be better solvent, and "glaze medium" to just be medium...
What feels weird is that based on your definition I would expect "medium" to not change the consistency of the paint, just make it more transparent... but they all include solvent and so essentially act like water... so then when I want to make things _very_ transparent (e.g. for a glaze, which is the technique I'm trying to apply), I end up often making my paint a wash because there's so much solvent with those additives. Not sure how to do this differently. Feels like I'd like something like "thinner medium without the solvent" or at least with less solvent.
Anyway... the Great Quest/Experiment goes on...
So one quick thing, you are right that the great challenge of miniature painting is the challenge of getting your paint thinness to the right level and controlling it. It can be a good experiement to work just with water, but some paints can't handle just solvent and break down with too much water.
So the key is that you have to wick the excess paint off into a paper towel or similar surface. When you're thinning paint, you're going to get a lot of excess liquid, that's fine. When you get the liquid out, you can then apply the more thin paint in a more controlled fashion.
Thank you for being so awesome that you even reply helpfully to TH-cam comments :-)
So I thought it was worth posting an update about this... over time this has become a non issue, and the reason is: I’ve become better at three things:
1) gauging the properties of the paint on my brush by testing it on the back of my hand; this means I rarely ever touch the brush to the mini without having a fairly good idea of how the paint is going to behave;
2) “fixing” the paint on the brush, mostly through wicking, as you suggested; if there’s too much moisture I know how to touch the brush to the paper towel to adjust it
3) just generally adjusting my brush strokes to get the effect I want from the paint as it currently is on the brush, rather than needing it to be exactly right.
One other thing I’ll add is, again thanks to your videos, flow aid has become an additive that I almost always add to everything, as a tiny drop to help things flow better.
Thanks!
Instead of something witty, how about just thank you. This video is much needed and will make everyone's journey through the painter's path better. (P.S. Gratz! you so deserve it)
Thank you, glad it was helpful. :)
I mostly use Vallejo Game Color paints, airbrush flow improver is great for reducing drying time & reduces surface tension from water like u mentioned, I use it all the time when making washes, the more it will have the runnier it will be which is great for small crevices.
I mostly use airbrush thinner for thinning the paint without reducing color opacity as water tends to do, it also make the paint dry faster.
I only use paint retarder for dry brushing because it’s a gel and Vallejo paints tend to dry super fast.
Makes sense to me
Great vid as always Vince.
Glad you enjoyed it
Thanks again for an awesome video (so many to get through!). What I still don’t quite get is when to use each medium/additive and when not to. For example if flow aid helps make the paint flow better off the brush, why isn’t it used all the time, seems like a useful property (my guess is it makes it easier to flood details maybe?). Likewise we thin paints so as not to clog details and to get them to flow easier, so when is using medium beneficial? Won’t it keep the paint too thick to use (although make it less intense), perhaps for edge highlighting or small details? Maybe when glazing (you mentioned when too thinned the paint breaks down too much) it seems obvious but I’ve hardly ever seen anyone add medium to glazes.
The short answer is because is you are needing various thicknesses at various times. Sometimes a thick paint is beneficial or what you want for that technique. My video on guide ot paint thickness will help some - th-cam.com/video/TbCtUYFwFWQ/w-d-xo.html
@@VinceVenturella Thanks so much for replying. I love that you have a video on practically everything mini painting related. When in doubt check the Vincipedia.
Thank you for this comparative explanation! I’m trying to improve my miniature painting skills, currently focusing on wet blending with a brush.Can you recommend a particular brand of Retardant? I also loved the idea of using a little Surfactant in my wet palette to prevent “stinky” and to help clean up brush bristles! Your practical knowledge and experience is truly appreciated!
My favorite retardents are either 1) Warcolours or 2) Liquitex from the art store.
Really great video, very useful!
Glad it was helpful!
Probably not the place to discuss this, but I don't use the twitter so can't say it there. So... CONGRATULATIONS on the Golden Demon! I've watched so many of your hobby cheating vids, and they are incredibly helpful. So its great to see all your painting practice and knowledge pay dividends on the biggest stage. Hopefully the first of many to come over the years.
Thank you, it's very much appreciated regardless of the location. :)
Great vid! Thank you.
Tip: Surf-ACT-nt or Sir-FACT-nt
Emphasis on second syllable
Apprecaite it, I will probably screw it up, but I appreciate it.
Love it. Thanks Vince, informative as always. Wish I could find some flow aid around here... Vallejo doesn’t make anything like that do they? Aside from the obvious airbrush variety.
Vallejo does make a flow improver, but you can also get it from any art store (liquitex makes a fine one). You can also order from Warcolours, that is what i was using in the video.
Absolutely Awesome, many thanks!
Glad you liked it! :)
Thank you for this video ! So useful !
Glad it was helpful!
Okay, 4th time is the charm I WILL retain this knowledge.
The video will be here :)
Very much appreciated. Thanks alot!
Excellent, happy to help as always. :)
Hi Vince, I found out about your channel few days ago and I'm having a blast! I already knew you from a multi-interview to professional painters at a convention. Tank you so much for spreading all this knowledge, as a newbie it is amazing.
I was wondering, since I got a box of blood angels to experiment airbrushing, do you have any quick hack to achieve something nice?
I saw the video about glazing blue over zenital priming to get a sick looking cloack with little to no effort, do you think I can apply it to my case? Thank you a lot again!
Well, if it's blood angels, then something like a warm zenithal highlighting is in order. I would start here, but there are several videos that would be of use - th-cam.com/video/rFDHpVJiNC0/w-d-xo.html
Very useful as usual!
Thank you, very much appreciated.
Even from across the pond we still get our hobby cheating!
One thing worth mentioning is you can get the base medium from several brands if you simply want to extend and reduce the opacity of paint without affecting any other characteristics like warcolours Matt Medium for example. Oh and don't go asking for a Thinner in an art supply store unless you want it for oil or lacquer paints. Look for acrylic Reducer/Extender/Medium/Retarder/Flow Aid etc as outside of our world Paint Thinner = Solvent
But more importantly... Good luck at the Golden Demon Vince!
You are absolutely correct. It's funny how some of the traditional art items are so different (but used in similar ways) to the additives we have.
Seeing how, essentially, everything we have came from the world of traditional art. ;)
Great video, thanks so much!
Thank you, happy to help as always. :)
For any readers who wants some product advice. This is one area where artist products are great as long as they are of high enough quality (or in the case of flow aid even cheaper options do fine. Don't use concentrate dish soap though)
My favourite to use is W/N pro series of mediums/additives. The mediums are a tad thicker, but that is easily solved with a bit of distilled water and premixing into dropper bottles. But I can get a 500ml bottle for next to nothing, and a 50ml bottle for the same price as a GW 12ml bottle.
Quality does make a difference in my experience though, I am not a fan of most Liquitex mediums and miniature painting actually got me using the W/N pro line for my non miniature painting endeavours. It is really worth it and you can do some really fun things with paint.
Good tips for sure and thank you for sharing. :)
Another great video Vince!!! Understanding what these do to the paint itself, their intended purpose, and how they react once applied, unlocks the possibilities you can achieve with them far beyond that of a simple "how to" tutorial. That makes this a much more informative video that can open new doorways to improving our abilities. It gives an artist the fundamental knowledge to build upon and take advantage of it in so many new ways that are beyond the scope of a paint by numbers tutorial. Thank you!!!
Sorry if that is a bit of a ramble. I was trying to get across my point and having a difficult time putting it into words neatly and concisely.
Not at all, totally awesome and happy to help as always. :)
Superman's house, hilarious. Great video :D
Thank you, glad you enjoyed. :)
Fantastic info as always. Would you say that it is better to use thinner medium instead of water? It seems you get a constant, or even "pure" means of thinning with the medium whereas with like tap water you have all the additional potential problems (minerals, etc). Also, with regards to different quality of water and including saliva for those that shape brushes with their mouth, is there ever any indication of contamination that is noticable in the paint on the model? Or, if it even exists, is it so minute that you can't even see it anyway?
There is a difference, but how big largely has to do with the water quality in your area (and the amounts of minerals and stuff in that water). in general, any medium is always going to be your best bet, but it's not always necessary. It will help the blends and glazes be more smooth.
thanks for the video! just one question. Where does vallejo glaze medium fall under? is it a type of thinner or is it a different thing? and when should i use glaze medium instead of thinner medium?
glaze medium is pretty much the same (if not the same) as thinner medium - eg acrylic medium. it'll reduce the ratio of pigment/medium in the same way as explained in the video without destroying the cohesion
Is buying a "surfactant" to add a tiny bit to water better than a small drop of dish soap? Also: I bought some regular thinner medium...I'm getting ready to paint a warm white unicorn. I wasn't clear on how the thinner medium works on miniatures; this was SUPER HELPFUL. I'm planning to have a golden red mane & tail, and golden horn. But actually watching this...I may use the thinner medium, and go for a faintly blue-grey body with the "ginger" mane & tail. I think the thinner medium & the retarder may be very helpful for a newbie mini painter, until I get faster. I love how you explain technical aspects to painting. It's just so challenging when you start on miniatures. THANKS!!🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
Always happy to help. The Dish Soap is really pretty close to the same thing, it's just thinned, if you use dish soap, you have to make sure you use the tiniest drop.
Great video, wished I had found before but better late than never, and the explanation has definitely given me an insight into my airbrush priming problem, I've been using too much thinner then mixing the flow aid where if I'm correct I should just use one and not loads , am I correct in thinking that?
FOr priming, you want a much lower thinning ratio like 1 drop of thinner to 4 drops of primer, its just there to keep everything moving.
Great video Vince as always. Do u prefer the warcolours retarder over the Vallejo retarder? Seems warcolours is more liquidy instead of gel based.
I do, after using both, I find the warcolours easier to work with.
Great video! I have a question about my vallejo retarder, as you said, it is very jelly, but i don't find that it keeps my paint as wet for as long as yours did. I tend to put a blob on my wet palette, load my brush up with a moderate amount of water, mix it with the retarder, load up the brush and then add to the paint...but it never stays wet for 10 minutes like yours did...what do you think i'm doing wrong?
Depends on where you live. In environments with high humidity you will definitely see more of an impact. I live in Colorado where it is pretty dry most of the year and the retarder mostly helps to keep the paint from drying in my airbrush but does not help dry time in a very significant way when just added to paint on my regular palette. This is why a when palette is a must for me. I still put retarder in the paint because if I don't the paint will still dry much faster while blending, or any other effect that you want the paint to stay wet for a longer period.
It really just has to do with the ratio. You will find if you mix even a small dab directly into your paint on your wet palette, it will take a LONG time to dry. My theory would be that given you brush is full of water when you go to the retardant, you aren't actually getting much in the mix. Play with your ratios and find the amount that works for you is what I would say.
Awesome video! Question, where do glazing mediums fit in all this? Seems almost like glaze mediums would work a lot like a thinner
Glaze mediums are just thinner with usually flow improver and/or retardent. So they are basically all of the additives and mediums together.
From artists hobby stores we can get matte or gloss medium, usually in 500ml bottles which will last a long time. Use that as Thinner? We can also get pearlescent medium which has interesting properties.
Flow improver. If I wanted ONE colour to go down/up a gradient.
Retarder. Blending multiple colours and/or giving wet blending a helping hand.
Surfactant. Well...I sometimes put a drop of washing up liquid in the paint brush jar so have I been using surfactant by proxy?
So in order.
1) Yes, that would be the equivalent of thinner. It's effectively just bonding agent without pigment (with a particular finish).
2) Flow Improver tends not to change the gradient (though it will thin as always, so it will show more of the tone underneath). It's great for freehand and delicate lines.
3) Yep
4) Yep, pretty much exactly.
Thank you so much. The current discipline when at home is to finish my white metal mountain, and I see paints/paint sets/effects that make me want to buy models just to try out the paint schemes. The smooth body work of PP Retribution warjacks cries for these and I’m not that in to them as a faction to play.
Many thanks - very informative.
Happy to help as always. :)
Would of been great to have a word on Water vs Thinner medium. Cause they are kind of similar. From a surface level it only seems like something when you want to thin something to an extreme level that would otherwise break the paint. Would be great to get some wisdom on when Thinner medium could be useful or some application that might call for it. It might be me, but that one seems the hardest to wrap your head around.
So water is the solvent, where as thinner is the bonding agent. In this case, both are not pigment - what I mean is that both are adding something that will effectively "thin" the paint. Depending on the pigment density, a paint can handle more water. (Scale 75 can take more water and retain it's properties than a Citadel paint for example). In general, for most purposes, they are going to act pretty similarly - if you are just trying to thin the paint down to get it flowing to a layer or something close consistency wise - but when you need to go thinner than that, to keep everything smooth, that is when you want thinner to prevent the paint from breaking down. Hope that helps.
I figured as much, but it was worth checking if there were maybe some particular use cases I wasn't seeing. Thanks, great video as always!
And Congrats on golden demon! Bronze Demon? Looking forward to hearing thought about it on wednesday!
Hello Vince. This was a very informative video as always. I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to the more advanced painting stuff, as well as additives, so I was wondering. Is it possible to get by using some of the stuff I have for mixing paint for my airbrush? I have recently purchased some Vallejo glaze medium for the first time, so currently I have that as well as Vallejo airbrush thinner and flow improver. Is there anything else I should go out and buy that's absolutely crucial? :)
Yep, the airbrush stuff can absolutely work in the place.
Finally I know whats my Lamian medium does\o/ and whats the difference to Liquitex, I was already suspicious they are different :D Thanks alot.
Glad I could help! :)
Very nice and informative video on a rather confusing subject for beginner like me :)
Excellent, happy to assist as always. :)
I grabbed couple Warcolours Layer and Ink stuff as well, mostly looking at your review about those :) , and I was wondering about their so called "Transparent" range comparing to their Ink, I do think they are quite different but I am yet to think about their use over Ink for example.
Did you have any experience with their transparent paint set ?
Cheers
Thank you for this video.
Very practical information
Thank you. :)
I was hoping for a video like this!
One question, how much surfactant do you add to your water to keep your brushes in good shape?
Also, I'd love a vid on how and when to use inks as I just bought a set from Vallejo. Personally I'm a little confused by inks. I tried using them the other day and it didn't work out as planned! :D
I do about 5 drops in about a cup of water. The grand ink review and guide is coming, don't worry. :)
Awesome, you're the best!
Hi Vince, do you still use a mixture of 80% thinner and 20% flow improver? I wanna make a similar mix, to make it easier to thin paints.
Yes I do!
Love these videos - so helpful! Question: which brands do you prefer that are easy to get in the US?
So in general, I use Warcolours, which does take a while to get here. I also like Liquitex, which you can get from most art stores or Amazon or whatever.
@@VinceVenturella thank you
Hey mate, great vid! BUT, after watching this a few times I wrote down all the info in my painting note book then started to do some online shopping. Here in Aus, I can’t find a surfactant, I can find a flow improver medium that states it’s a surfactant...... now I’m confused. Want it mainly as paint brush cleaner, but also was thinking of a drop in a solution to bring back some dried out citadel paints. Can you help with both of these, thanks mate. Oh and defiantly subbed
There isn't that much difference between flow improver and surfactant. Generally, flow improver is a little more like dish soap, but it ha some other tangential properties. My advice would be to grab the flow improver, it should work just fine for all the purposes you list. Glad to help and thanks for subbing. :)
This was really interesting. I'm watching it because I read that you shouldn't thin metallics off a post someone had written about how water effects their metallics on the wet pallet. I tried GW Leadbelcher without thinning and although a lot less frustrating to paint with vs thinned with water, I found the finish poor. So is flow aid the more ideal thing to thin metallics with?
PS Only subscribed a few weeks a go after recommendations off The Independent Characters Facebook group and I'm loving you vids 👍
Thank you, always happy to help. Here is my best advice, order yourself some Vallejo Metal Color (it's not model color, not air or game color), it's the product linked below. It doesn't need to be thinned, it covers like a dream, it blends easy and it has the best shine of any metal acrylic paint.
For most paints, any brand and type works, but this is different. Metal Paints really truly have a best in the market. I promise you once you'll try these, you'll never go back.
www.amazon.com/Vallejo-Steel-Metal-Color-Paint/dp/B012A93HZS/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=vallejo+metal+color&qid=1584663787&sr=8-1
That color and the Silver are really an amazing paint.
@@VinceVenturella Thanks Vince, you're a star 👍
What the better to use for an airbrush?
Thanks for the informative video.
I've seen people using matte medium as a thinner and I'm still not quite getting why they would use that instead of thinner medium except for maybe to reduce gloss/reflection. Does anyone have an answer? Thanks in advance.
Could be availability, it's basically the same thing, but it also has some effect on the matte shine of the final outcome. From a pure chemistry perspective they are basically the same thing.
Have you done a companion video about how the different mediums work (Matt Medium, Glaze Medium etc). Looking at this Flow Improver and Thinner would seem to be great for glazes, so what is the difference between them and glaze medium?
So effectively, most of those are just combinations of addititives. So basically, when you talk about something like glaze medium, it's usually just thinner (matt medium), plus some amount of flow improver and retardent.
If an additive is called a medium it usually means that it also contains medium. This allows you to add as much as you want without disrupting paint film formation. Liquitex makes a drying retarder medium and drying retarder additive. The medium is easier to use since there's less risk, additive gives you more control.
Good clarification for sure and you are totally right on all counts.
@Vince Venturella Vallejo Airbrush Flow Improver is different to Liquitex flow aid right? The Vallejo one is really thick and looks more like a medium?
I believe the airbrush flow improver is actually a mix (part thinner - bonding agent) and part additive (flow-improver), it will sort of act as both. I know a lot of people use airbrush flow improver as their additive on their wet palettes when painting.
Vince Venturella Thanks. That makes sense. I remember trying to use liquitex flow aid in my airbrush because it was cheaper then Vallejo, my paint dripped everywhere. I now swear by vallejo flow aid for airbrushing...I haven't tried it on the pallet yet though....
Hello again, Mr. Venturella!
Do I need to dilute Liquitex Slow-Dri externally? I understand from the label that it is intended for 4 parts paint to 1 part retarder, but much of the additive wisdom seems to indicate dilution before use.
I've been trawling the Internet for this information and am failing to find anything helpful lol. Thank you so much in advance!
I believe that can be used straight. Flow improvers need to be heavily diluted (like 20-1) before mixed with paint.
Vince, you mentioned using Liquitex flow improver and needing to add water because it's more concentrated. I have some Winsor Newton flow improver that may need to be similarly cut. Is there an easy way to tell if this is the case?
The instructions will generally say, I don't have any in front of me, but I would certainly imagine if it is meant to, it should say on the side of the bottle. A quick google tells me it is supposed to be reduced at something like a 4-1 ratio at minimum, but I haven't used it, so you may want to test a little.
Vince Venturella checked the bottle and it says 1 to 20 ratio. I think this bottle will outlast me, lol.
Very helpful Vince, I knew what they didish but not why they did so- interesting!
So you are in blighty ? When you popping round for tea? :D
I'll see when we can schedule it out. ;)
Welcome anytime Vince, I'll even proved biscuits (cookies I believe you guys call them!) Haha.
Hope you are enjoying your visit. Best of luck in the Golden Demon, fingers crossed for you.
i have W&N's blending medium what does this do to acrylic paints and can i use it for painting at all ?
So I was not familiar, but my research says this is basically Retarder, so it will slow drying time. It's designed for watercolours, but it's water based, so theoretically it would have the same effect on acrylics.
Probably a dumb question: But are Flow aid/improver products with the "for airbrush" the same as those without? Could I use the The "for airbrush"(for example the one Vallejo sells) with normal brush work? Appreciate the knowledge you bring to the hobby
Same product and can be used for brush or airbrush.
Is Vallejo Glaze Medium a type of thinner medium then? Thinking of getting some as the lhamian Medium pot makes it a bit of a pain to use.
Glaze medium is basically just thinner medium plus a flow improver additive. It's good at doing exactly what it says on the tin.
A very belated "Bless You"
I have just found your channel and I am very impressed.
Thank you, I am glad to have you along on the hobby journey and always happy to help. :)
Love the video.
Would Vallejo airbrush thinner be the same as the thinner medium?
It's a little different, it also has a little flow improver mixed in, but for most purposes it's identical.
@@VinceVenturella when switching citadel colours to dropper models, would you recommend using any additives? Without changing the properties too much. I was considering flow improver.
@@nasscooper2006 A little bit of flow improver is generally a good idea for sure.
best stuff to aid with transferring paint from pots to dropper bottles, please? I've heard so much conflicting info, my head is spinning from it.
I bought vallejo flow improver, but now I'm not sure I should be using this. another guy said to use airbrush medium (which I guess is a binder) it's definitely white in colour, and not clear like the other stuff.
I did make my own though with galleria matte medium, water and a little drop of dish soap (to use for making glazes and stuff) so maybe I can use this mixture to help decant GW pots
I have a video on it, but my general move is a small amount of water and a few drops of flow improver - th-cam.com/video/ISS4CYV2rg4/w-d-xo.html
this is, hilariously, a perfect flag for your Lord of Change, is just one electric blue, in four different ways
This is pretty much my entire painting preference in one flag yes. :)
Hi sir, I have a question regarding your mix (80 thinner 20 flow improver). Can I mix those two in a separate bottle and keep it like that, then use it when I need to thin down the paint? I mean, will they lose their properties when they are stored like that mixed? Thank you in advance
Yes, absolutely
Never heard of surfactant before. Don't have it and don't plan on getting it...sounds like it is like flow aid. But, it is all still very confusing. So flow improver is like flow aid? And your acrylic thinner is like glaze medium? I think I am more confused now. Great video as usual and I thank you very much...
Surfactant changes the liquids interaction with solids more than flow aid. That being said, it's not essential. Flow improver and flow aid are the same thing, different names. Hope that helps.
Yes, flow aid and flow improver are just two names for the same thing. Further, and I know this question was asked and answered above, since glaze medium is simply a less viscous acrylic thinner medium, they both have very similar properties. In theory, anything which effectively breaks the surface tension of the water is a surfactant; some very common ones are dish soap and isopropyl alcohol (given the inherent anti-microbial properties, I'm inclined to think that the surfactants marketed for acrylic paint, like the one shown in this video, probably contain some percentage of isopropyl alcohol) and there are no doubt others. I agree that it seems like flow aid/flow improver are already pretty much filling the role of surfactant, just minus the anti-microbial property.
Is flow aide for airbrushing the same for flow aide for acrylic paints?
Yep, though generally, when you have prepackaged airbrush flow improvers, they also have thinners.
hi Vince love your vids I recently brought some Windsor and newton glaze medium. and realised it is a gloss finish is there a matt version of this as its making my minis very shiny and its annoying to paint with the glare and what is lahmian medium for as I have some and could I use this for glaze medium :-) thanks from the UK!
My best advice is either a) find some different medium, there are more matte options like Jo Sonia Magic mix or b) once you've got the item where you want, hit it with a layer of ultra matte varnish.
there is a wide variety of acrylic mediums available (just search for matte acrylic medium, you should find plenty). pure acrylic medium has the inherent property of drying up with a satin/glossy finish tho. if you're looking for ultra matte maybe add some talkum.
and yes lahmian medium (acrylic medium) can be used as glaze medium
Vince - isnt it the other way around ie thinner is the solvent and flow improver the solvent + binding agent?
No, thinner is generally acryllic medium alone (binding agent - just without pigment) and flow improver is usually water and an additive, where it's just changing the paint properties.
@@VinceVenturella I see, thanks for the reply dude! Big fan of you and your work 🤘
Where in this would something like a Glaze Medium from Vallejo fall? I roughly understand when to use it, but not really why, or what it actually does
It would fall into the Medium category, so it will thin the paint fairly aggressively without changing the hue, only reducing the coverage.
How is glaze medium different from thinner?
It's a good question, as that doesn't make any sense from chemistry perspective. My suspicion is that the Glaze medium is prethinned with water or some other additive. The thinner medium seems to be pure medium, just bonding agent, where as the glaze medium is thinner. In the end, both are used like additional bonding agents and will achieve basically the same thing.
This makes me feel better! I really couldn't notice much difference between the two but a bit slower drying time in the thinner. It was driving me mad x)
I airbrush with Vallejo thinner and flow improver. I don’t use water. And sometimes my paint layers can just rub off with a damp brush even after drying, like the paint is being reactivated. What’s the issue? Am I using too much flow improver? I always prime first btw.
Yes, that would be too much additive where the medium isn't fully curing and setting.