Should Minecraft be a Survival Game?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ค. 2020
- The experience of Minecraft Alpha was much more survival focused than today. But would taking inspiration from its gameplay be a good direction for the game to take today?
Website: wiki.minecraftabnormals.com/M...
Patreon: / minecraftabnormals
Subreddit: / minecraftabnormals
Discord: / discord
Twitters: / mcabnormals
/ teamabnormals
I still disagree to a degree that the creepers destroying terrain detracts from the game. To me, having things you create be destroyed is a much more fitting punishment in a game about building than simply dying. I can die over and over again and it does nothing to me because at the very worst I just lose experience and a few items. But if a creeper is near a build of mine, it instantly becomes more intense because it’s not just a minor setback I’m risking, but actually losing progress.
The only real problem I have with the creeper is the opposite end of that, if I’m not close to something I built, not only is letting a creeper explode easier than fighting it, but can even be advantageous in the event that multiple mobs are chasing me. This eventually results in a ton of obnoxious holes around the terrain that you’d have to manually rebuild (Though it could be argued that that’s essentially the same idea as the previous point, that the consequence of a creeper exploding extends further than simply being damaged)
The creeper would be fine if it was easier to see. But they make next to no noise and have a very short fuse.
The Creeper's natural camouflage doesn't actually work, most terrain is either completely different or a darker shade of green. They are easy to be found if you are actively looking for them and thats a good learning curve in dealing with them.
At least for regular players, i guess people with colorblindness can have a problem spotting them but with some texture packs, mods or other tools that can be fixed.
Accessibility is definitely a good addition anywhere, but it should never be forced on those that don't need/require ... remaining as a just another option.
Howewer the creeper should have some step noises when it is moving since it is way too "unrealistic" in the setting since other mobs have it, specially on over some specific terrain. But it should not be too loud to not impact the creepers threat level, like how their hissing isn't very loud compared to the sound of a Ghast throwing their fireball.
I don't think their fuse is too short and i would preffer it makes them more fun to fight against. But i guess it could just scale depending on the difficulty ?
@@pedropagliacci3108 I think their lack of footsteps make complete sense, actually. It says it right in their name. They creep up on you without a sound: The Creeper.
They’re easy to deal with in my experience if they’re alone, at least if you’re able to sprint-hit them and back up well. Not much harder with other mobs around. Can be hard in some situations though, and can sneak up on you sometimes, but I like them being destructive. Can be annoying, but they’re also a real threat which is nice to have. They also still fit vanilla, as the player can prevent their explosion, and nothing ever causes creepers to explode besides the player coming into its view and getting too close.
I think it could be nice if some creepers preferred tackling you, however, before choosing to try and explode by you if you get their health to half or less, or something like that. Would add some variety and make them feel more alive somewhat. A lot of creepers would still just try and explode, though.
@@pedropagliacci3108 have you ever had a build that you spent hours upon hours on be blown up just because of the lawn when you were doing a barbecue with your friends and not a single soul noticed it? Because if you have and you still think that you are just a masochist. Btw this was based on a true story.
I think that Minecraft should expand its open world aspect a lot more though, since that would appeal to players of all play styles.
Also, game design wise, I illagers are one of my favourite mobs since the challenga is COMPLETELY optional. I'm actually a bit surprised that you didn't mention that.
Agreed. That would've been a good thing to mention.
I dont think illager patrols spawning in my house counts as *completely* optional but I get what you mean
Should've lit it up
@@Boooo kinda curious as to how you found the comment lol, it's be been five months
I get notified of all comments
Personally I always found purely survival games to be dreadful experiences, for one simple reason.
The moment you make a food farm and a stable shelter, the challenge is gone.
All people truly need to survive is food and shelter, as shelter protects you from danger and food keeps you alive. Eliminating those two problems turns survival into a trivial chore, leaving you with nothing to do but purely optional content.
The reason Minecraft is so successful is because it strayed so far from survival. In giving the players so much to explore and interact with, the players have to leave their shelter and take risks.
Risks lead to danger, which leads to interesting gameplay, which leads to having fun.
Excellent point.
The good thing about Minecraft in it’s early stages was that it was a base building game, not a sandbox or survival game. It’s why a lot of the oldest mechanics that are still in the game have base building as a central focus to their design. Think about it: The danger that the night brings preventing you from doing anything productive? You can make a base that allows you to do those things at night. Creepers? You mean those things that blow up and destroy your base directly challenging the player to both repair and improve their base? This is why Minecraft alpha is preferred by so many people. If they really wanted a survival game they would play one, there are better survival games than Minecraft alpha. I mean dwarf fortress and dungeon master were literally the biggest inspirations for Minecraft.
thats already how minecraft works though
You are right. For me the ideal survival game would be this: You are on a large island, the only way to escape is to get to the other side by the time help arrives. This way the developers can strategically place food in challenging places, to create a natural and engaging progression. Instead of the more open-world survival games where you can just set up base anywhere and farm food, a more linear objective would pressure the player to keep moving on and prevent them from becoming complacent in a reliable food source.
This idea wouldn't work well in vanilla Minecraft at all, I'm just talking about a potential survival game idea.
I think the hunger idea would actually work pretty well, especially since bundles will be able to reduce inventory clutter. You could have 16 of each food type in a bundle, take the type of food you need, and put the rest of the food back in.
Agreed. Bundles are a very elegant solution.
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy Just wondering- would you be okay with me toying around with that idea for a mod/modpack? I've been tinkering around with multiple mods recently and have gotten a grasp on how to code Java (kind of).
Sure, it'll require a mixin though.
Storing different types of food in a bundle wich many people otherwise think of as a not so useful item is a great idea
Oh btw I managed to implement my hunger idea. Didn't need a mixin but was still quite a challenge for me haha
There is a gdc talk about unsolvable design problems as in problems which are impossible to solve and need to be circumvented. An example is mixing two genres of games. Sure you can have elements of both, but at the end of the day you have to decide which will prevail.
Nowadays Mojang have explicitly stated that they won't add mobs that damage creations. What they are saying is that Minecraft it's first a sandbox and second a survival game.
However I would like a challenge mode with harder mobs. Not hardcore which is "survival but you play like a coward"
Mods can fortunately solve your problems. Ice and fire is a really good one, Spartan Weaponry, Tough as Nails if you want to worry about freezing to death and heatstroke. You know what, RLCraft might be the perfect modpack for you if you want the ultimate survival game. If you don't want overly detailed mobs, get rid of Lycanites Mobs, they could be too not Minecraft-y for some people.
Harcore should have more realistic elements (not being able to fall from 5 blocks and survive, rotten food, gravity affecting a lot of blocks, etc).
Pretty sure aperson would be able to survive 5 meters though, but they'll be injured I guess
@@Jesus-qv5sw I think hardcore could be the solution to a more challenging version of the game. I personally think hardcore should replace survival as the game’s “main” game mode, that meaning the game mode that most features are designed for. There are plenty of examples of this happening and not happening, for example respawn anchors being entirely useless in hardcore, and totems of undying being almost required in hardcore, but I believe that it’s mechanics still need to align with that of other game modes.
@@Captain-mz6mg meanwhile, as someone who likes building/exploring and plays in creative as much as I play in survival, having hardcore be treated as the "main" gamemode is a very hard "no" for me. Playing survival without keepinventory is a good enough challenge, and I absolutely loathe the idea of having hours if not days worth of work getting deleted because some creeper snuck up on me or my elytra broke.
But if anything, I think that proves the point of the video- minecraft simply has too large an audience to reliably focus on one group without upsetting another, and thus making changes like this would be very difficult.
I like the food idea, and I think that more specialized and hard to craft foods that players skip over like pumpkin pie, cake and cookies should have special buffs that they give you similar to potion effects.
But you should still be able to play the game normally without eating 40 different foods.
Yeah but then you’d lose the point of potions and it would mess with the progression of the game. Potions and potion effects such as buffs are only accessible once you’ve gotten at least one blaze rod.
@@shroomer8294 technicality two because of blaze powder
@@ahmadsuleman9045 You can get brewing stands in villages.
What about something like a crop that only grows in moonlight so there are incentives to stay awake at night?
That would be a good start
But what about multiplayer servers
@@2huUuuUUUU What about them? What are you trying to say?
@@anakinlowground5515 Some players want to stay up while others dont
or just code that crops grow while you sleep
Hard agree with the hunger idea
I spend so much time cooking in Breath of The Wild, it would make that whole area of Minecraft interesting again.
Currently, there's no reason to make pie, cake, or soup when steak will always solve every problem.
try the appleskin mod
i agree 100%
If you are interested in a mod that would do something similar, try the spice of life mod (and also the potato version who is more forgiving)
I think its not really that good tbh, it would make things a little over-complicated, you know, you could play the game like you've always, since this change isnt really game-changing, but if they havent added it yet its probably because they know thay not many people will use it.
Think of it, if you can just eat one type of food that's easy to get amd you have in a great amount, then why would you use other slots just so that you dont get tired as often? people would just eat a single type of food either way.
tl;dr :
I think i'd be a nice extra but its just that many people wont use it and the community will see it as a "useless mechanic".
I think the issue is that a lot of the appeal to the older game design has shifted into areas of disinterest.
Building to survive in my opinion is a rather enjoyable challenge, trying to create structures to fend off attackers. Buildings challenge however has shifted towards farming and redstone, which I find much less appealing and unsatisfying.
Another disagreement is to the combat, where a majority of the challenge is indeed removed by sprinting, and the lack of challenge ever offered by the combat in any other regard.
I believe the game is desperately in need of a good challenge with a high difficulty in terms of combat and building. Ideally I'd love some form of event, boss or enemy that forms a serious combat challenge to overcome, with use of mechanics such as combat or building.
Currently the wither mainly benefits from a large flat area and the ender dragon forces you into a fresh arena of its own, but I would love if there was some enemy or boss that encouraged creation of an arena that wasn't just cheesing it with blocks.
In the end I think the best way to achieve these goals would be with a terraria style event, as it would allow the player to take great preparation and be entirely optional challenge, the difficulty coming in designing the ai and structure of such an event.
Good video either way, but there's definitely things I'd disagree on that I probably spoke of incoherently due to it being 1am.
I wrote this paused very near the end and I also have to say its very disheartening to hear your take at the end. Just telling players looking for a challenge to find another game is simply terrible.
People like this game for a reason, it's got all the parts to it that would make it perfect for other types of challenge and telling players who want that to leave is just incredibly demotivating and rude.
Raids would be a good example of a challenging event that requires building and strategy.
Ultimately I make that judgement at the end because people who want to make the game harder don't realise that it would lock out a lot of the casual crowd or cause more work for the developers. If people don't build for the joy of it, then perhaps the building part of Minecraft is the least important to them and they can easily find another game tailored to their interests.
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy then we need more events like raids. This would actually be a great mechanic for integration of building your own villages. Minecraft could benefit from more intelligent villagers, and maybe making it easier to attract them and give them homes would be a good idea. The groundwork is already laid with Village and Pillage, but I’ve always felt the mechanics were too sparse. Give villagers a simple trait for preferences, make caravans of them arrive every now and then once you’ve slept in a bed (spawn them just like raiding parties) and make villager housing better defined, like in Terraria, and it opens up a lot of possibility that still feels minecrafty. It also makes the world feel much more vibrant and alive, where currently it feels very lacking in life. If villager trading was tweaked to better reward players too, this is a great way to incentivize players to build large structures with a purpose beyond just the insanely dull concept of infinite farming. Allow the player to manually trigger events like pillager raids, maybe even a larger “war party” that’s like a massive single attack wave, including enemies that can break walls or doors, or small goblin invasions, targeted zombie sieges, etc.
"but I would love if there was some enemy or boss that encouraged creation of an arena that wasn't just cheesing it with blocks."
Hard agree, especially that cheesing part.
Heck, a mob that's supposed to be avoided like tornado can be easily cheesed with blocks
Would love to see some rebalancing to the difficulty system. Nothing crazy, but making them more than just mobs dealing more damage.
That or more events like Raids and the Warden. Raids get easier if the player wants it to be, and they’re cool whichever way you approach them, and the Warden is more like a neat puzzle.
MC Alpha/Beta was too survival focused, but modern Minecraft became too sandbox focused. There needs to be a balance, or at a drastic reworking of difficulty levels, with survival focused mechanics being added or removed based on difficulties. This would please both the hardcore audience by reinventing the difficult and hardcore MC they miss yet also casuals, by making easier difficulties more of a transitionary state between survival and creative while medium difficulties keep modern survival as it is.
Minecraft Alpha and Beta weren’t too survival focused imo. They mostly focused on base building. The problem with focusing on base building is that it prevents playthroughs from having longevity. In alpha and beta you reach that certain stage where you’re base is basically a mega fortress that you rarely need to leave. I enjoy the base building gameplay of Minecraft more than anything else but I can see why there is a much bigger emphasis on sandbox and exploration based design since it has much more longevity.
Phantoms would be better if they were player specific. It'd be a unique concept if phantoms could only be seen by the tired player and non-survival gamemode players (like those in creative and spectator). What'd make them cooler would be if they could still be hit by players who weren't tired, but phantoms would never target them.
Then you could have it that phantoms always spawn like ordinary mobs do, but they are only visible and hostile when a player is tired. This could incentivise players to both get sleep to avoid this nuisance as well as avoid sleep so they can find them for the membranes. Now if you also made it that villagers could get insomnia if they don't sleep, you could have another threat to villagers, one that you can fight but can't even see, if your villager doesn't have a bed he can get to. It would make Spectral Arrows far more useful, lighting up phantoms for when you don't have time to wait 3 days for the tired effect.
In Upgrade Aquatic phantoms only target players with enough insomnia. Not sure about the invisibility thing, especially for villagers, since they already face a lot of threats.
I think what people take issue with is that survival mode is called "survival" despite not being about "survival".
@@shiftless215 Sandbox mode would be creative mode, survival is still an actual game, just not as hardcore survival as other survival games. Doesn't necessarily have to be an entirely different mode either, it could just be another difficulty.
"peaceful - easy - normal - hard - hard(permadeath) - hardcore - hardcore (permadeath)" is what I'd suggest, with the new hardcore being this ultra survival mode
@@starrysock an alternative option would be an "old school" mode - seems like a quirky name that Mojang would give it - that mimics the alpha/beta style with updated features
@@starrysock I think hardcore should be it’s own difficulty and that any difficulty can be played with a one life system.
Add pams harvestcraft to vanilla
While obviously this is a joke, but this would be a good way to give food mechanics more depth. Not only to make proper meals but also to give the player access to pretty much a wide variety of great endgame food that will give you several foodbars of health
From what I can tell, harvestcraft is quite bloated with different foods. Adding them to groups would help separate them out though.
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy Agreed, the fact that not even I know in modded Minecraft what kinda foods I should make from the start with all the ideas and recipes given is a problem. Maybe they could add a proper recipe book for that as a help for people
Neapolitan is a nice mod that adds unique foods and flavours :)
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy *cough cough hint hint* xD
I do like it but I am not too familiar with it yet ^^
that would make the game way too complex
I feel like what would really help make older players feel more at home is the addition of more optional challenges to complete. Things like the defeating the Ender Dragon, and conquering an ocean monument. These are things you can only achieve if you are moderately skilled at the game or are sufficiently determined, and as such are great ways for pro survival players to test their limits without alienating the more creative side of the fanbase, as they are entirely optional. This would also make casual adventurers happy, since there's more incentive to explore the world and find new things.
That being said, it seems like Mojang is already working on this, if the Buzzy Bees Update and the Nether Update is anything to go by. Entirely new mobs and resources to interact with and all that. You can even use the bees for combat purposes, if that one infamous video where they destroy a wither is any indication.
Wonder what they're gonna change next...
Well we have the warden coming soon-ish
Warden isn't meant to be defeated tho
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy Well everyone is still going to try, lol.
Wouldn't be worth it anyway since they probably won't drop anything
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy Didn't they say that they would drop some sort of trophy item?
I consider Minecraft a base-building, sandbox, "survival" game.
Yep. Sandbox trumps survival.
As someone who needs extrinsic motivation, this makes me sad.
@@PotatoPatatoVonSpudsworth You could download some mods that make the game harder, like the better AI for mobs or something, if you want it to become more of a survival rather than being annoyed by the mobs, also some mods to make late game last longer and more bosses.
@@DamageMaximo you can also download mods for more building blocks and redstone mechanics. But im willing to bet that if you primarily build or use redstone, you don't even feel desperate Enough to resort to that do you?
I think that outside of technical minecraft players minecraft dosent do a very good job at encouraging the player to build infrastructure but I do agree that more dangerous mobs is not a solution. Another thing is most infrastructure projects only enable players to be creative if you care about astetics
There is a best mob farm and even with the changes you suggest to food there still might be a best food making players optimize farms to make that food. I think if minecraft wants to encourage extrinsically motivated players to build they need to focus on transportation and mob deterrence. The nether inflicting insomnia will help encourage the player to improve their infrastructure to mob proof their base but that just involves a fence and torches.
No, food really is too abundant in the world. In it's sandbox element, food ressources can be farmed from your base. Making it so food isn't as accessible without a farm would help the survival element but wouldn't really hinder either exploration nor building. And while redstone does tick some of the boxes for extrinsic building, it doesn't tie into game difficulty, which is what the conversation is really about.
When people say "Minecraft needs to improve its survival", what they're complaining about is that the game isn't balanced properly for them when it comes to PVE, and that's a solid point. We're talking about "Hard" difficulty, here, where players come specifically for a challenge. Combat is an essential aspect of Minecraft that ties into both survival, ressource management and PVE, and needs to be a bigger part of the conversation.
A balance between early ressource management and survival and late game exploration and dimension hopping is what people complaining about survival is actually about. It's a gradient, but if you focus too much on either you make the other a chore, but the point is that the game is currently unbalanced. The goal of having existential threats in the game is all about keeping progression interesting and difficulty fresh, which isn't currently the game's strongsuit. It's valid criticism.
Absolutely. This is mainly a response to Jay exci's video about reverting to alpha survival mechanics, not necessarily making survival more fun.
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy Yeah! I agree. My takeaway was that Jay's vid pinpoints some things that alpha does in terms of balance for both survival and game difficulty that mesh better with the gamplay loops than mechanics of 1.16, in particular when it comes to food and mobs. Minecraft CAN be a better survival game if you rebalance those, without it hurting its other core aspects, like its sandbox and exploration elements.
IMO, it's not one or the other; survival and difficulty loops lead to progression loops lead to more difficulty, more building opportunities and more exploration. If survival and difficulty aren't interesting nor challenging, the other aspects of the game suffer, too. Farm building, redstone, decorating...aren't at the core of what fuels Minecraft. They compliment the game, but they're not on their own the type of challenge needed to keep players invested and "in the zone".
So, yeah, Minecraft should be a survival game.
Jeb's planning a PVE rebalance later in developpement for the combat update, so we'll see what happens :-)
Yep, and there's definitely ways survival and creative and compliment each other.
@@BL0B5TER well said
I never really found true interest in creating things, I am in for an open world RPG-like gameplay
The easy fix would be not to play minecraft.
@@pulsarhappy7514 The easy fix would be to not play vanilla Minecraft*
Modded is always an option. There is plenty of RPG packs, such as RAD
www.curseforge.com/minecraft/modpacks/roguelike-adventures-and-dungeons
@@stardough1894 not what vanilla should be.
Ah i hate rpgs
@@pulsarhappy7514 "Yeah but the balance between being able to create things as a fun thing on the side while the Survival/RPG element being the main appeal.'
This is what I'd imagine this comment is saying at least which I do kinda agree.
The main issue I find with this video is the idea that survival and sandbox cannot coexist. The end of video declares that since survival has been left behind, you now have new challenges involving building, however nothing about survival features in any way stops you from having sandbox challenges such as the optimization of farms. If anything, survival features enhance the challenges presented by sandbox gameplay by providing an actual incentive to complete them. Whats the point in creating large automated farms without any reason to use the food?
Absolutely, survival and sandbox mechanics can complement each other. It's just the ones from alpha were left behind for a reason, and can't be reimplemented today without upsetting the new sandbox elements.
The point of creating a massive farm for food you don’t need doesn’t exist, or rather, it’s for its own sake, minecraft is an intrinsicly motavated game, one where you create your own goals and challenges.
Extrinsicly motivated people find less enjoyment with the game for this reason
I love both the Survival and Sandbox gameplay that Minecraft offers but I prefer the Survival gameplay because I'm not the best builder aesthetically. I do think its valid as a medium for building but I wouldn't want to see Survival be dropped in favor of creativity or vice versa. In a perfect world you should be able to customize gameplay to fit your needs at the start of generating a new world, like you suggested. This way nobody gets left out of enjoying Minecraft however they choose.
The strangest thing about this discussion seems to be this thought that Minecraft was originally always going to be a survival game, I mean didn't it start out as a sandbox too wasn't there a reason survival test was a separate thing?
I mean I know that's going way back in ancient history to the point where one would want to talk about Dwarf Fortress vs Infiniminer inspirations but maybe I am misunderstanding something?
I think it's mostly people who thought it was like that in alpha and want it to be like that again
I dont agree with you, i think minecraft should be more like a survival game again, and the new cave update is a step on the right direction
I've got no problem with more survival elements as long as they don't infringe on the creative ones.
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy Agree
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy Whitelight has a video about giving the player a reason to build and be creative
Yeah I like his Minecraft videos
everyone listening to him while I'm suffering to look at a 15fps gameplay
I agree and dont agree at the same time I think there should be more survival THINGS in the game but at the same time add to the sandbox aspect because I like overcoming a hostile world as well as going on adventures while making it your own because if people who want it easier has a slide those who dont want a challenge have creative so theres no reason not to add both more challenges in terms as optional things but also everyday survival things. I hope I dont get roasted here lol
Nah lol I largely agree. As long as sandbox stuff isn't impacted too badly I'm fine with more survival stuff
i think survival mode needs to be renamed to "thrive mode" and there needs to be added a new mode called "survival mode" which will be more similar to the alpha survival experience.
That food-specific saturation idea would further the issue of limited inventory. Minecraft has a massive problem where your inventory is constantly filled (I'm sure you're aware). 5:36 Minecraft is supposed to be whatever you want it to be (as you say later), but the addition of features that make the game easier doesn't remove Minecraft as a survival game "anymore".
Well I do bring tons of supplies when it comes to mining or exploring so yea, I agree with you.
Although the inventory problem that occurs with the saturation specific foods can be prevented by making advanced foods like stews and pies, so it encourages the player to make the advanced foods instead of just eating steak, pork, or golden carrots.
thank goodness there's bundles, that solves a lot of the food thing since you only need a bit of each food, and the change to each point of health removing a point of hunger that Jeb and a few others are working on for combat really fixes the food thing more.
@@theasiandoodman6585 But if there's a good meta food, players will just only ever use that, which defeats the purpose of having to strategize foods. There's farms for everything, and even foods like pumpkin pie or rabbit stew aren't too hard to get lots of around midgame. So unless there's some complete crafting overhaul that makes those foods very hard to get, it doesn't really solve the problem imo
@@starrysock at that point, it’s fine.
I think certain survival-focused stuff intending on making the game harder could be added to higher difficulties or even new ones or modes. Like smarter and more lively mob AI. Maybe even new mobs like Minecon’s Mob A, which could maybe still spawn but be passive on easy difficulty.
I feel it’s still a survival game, but with exploration added on to that. Which is cool, as exploring involves risks, which means you’re still trying to survive while looting stuff or finding new places. I think there could be some more challenging structures, though; jungle and desert temples are purely just free treasure after your first time finding one. Mansions and Ocean Monuments, as well as the Nether ones, are all good steps in the right direction, however simpler structures are still nice to have.
There may be other survival games for those who want a survival experience, and Minecraft may be focused on being a sandbox, but even survival-oriented players still love the game’s world and its survival mode was made with surviving and some difficulty in mind, which can blend with sandbox stuff even with harder challenges as long as it’s done in a fair and balanced way, like any game.
Of course, there are still challenges and stuff even if progression is a bit easy and could be worked on some, I’m just saying is all. New difficulty modes could add to that without bothering more easy-going players; personally, if something would fit in that case, I don’t think mods and datapacks existing are a good reason for Mojang to avoid adding something to the core game, as mods and such shouldn’t really need to be relied upon unless Mojang just doesn’t believe it fits the core game...
Thanks for the constructive comment. I'm working on a video about how to appeal to survival players without ruining the game for others, so this will come in handy.
I don't think they'd make a new gamemode or difficulty too different from regular gameplay though, because they'd be giving themselves twice the balancing work.
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy You’re welcome! Oh and yeah that’s true, having to balance each difficulty separately slipped my mind :S
Perhaps a single new mode could work, like expert mode or something, but eh idk. New mobs that change their behavior, like Piglins and Hoglins, could maybe work though.
I think the mob ai could be changed to make it more interesting instead of just harder, so it could cater to everyone
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy Yeah that’d be cool, I’ve thought for sometime now they could make mobs feel more “alive” in a sense, like how I think some mobs on Bedrock will look in the direction of an arrow you’ve shot (not sure if that’s in java? I haven’t really used a ranged playstyle much despite liking ranged gameplay). I’ve noticed how, some updates ago, mobs also now turn a bit before coming after you if you’re behind them, like they just realized you’re there; I don’t remember that always being a thing, but maybe I’m just not good at noticing stuff ‘til later sometimes :S
Maybe mobs could spawn preferring certain behaviors, like creepers tackling you, and maybe know how to do more stuff depending on difficulty.
If some mobs could burrow through blocks without destroying them it could encourage the use of different building materials in a house
I disagree with the choice of challenge I think people like a challenge I think it could just be expanded by adding more difficulty options so players that can’t be expected to play on the same level of ever buddy elns could just play on a way easy mode... there’s more long term players that Minecraft needs to take into account because it’s theses players that keep the game long term and I think notch would have wanted a more challenging game because I’m sure he understand that more challenge means the more satisfying victories
defending mobs beneficial to the player is a good way to encourage players to build and defend while also not making it mandatory to do so.
Raids should not be caused by the player they should instead happen after a player has spent a lot of time in a village and should be way more threatening. Evokers should be able to teleport himself and other mobs through walls while which’s splash helpful status effects their allies. Maybe even levitation and slow falling to get over walls. Because villagers are completely optional I think these additions don’t hinder 5e sandbox experience while giving an intrinsic motivation to build defensive structures
And they should use finally the ILLUSIONERS, and the idea of raids being by stay a long time on a village is really cool.
I actually had a somewhat similar idea as to how challenging Raids should be, though it's a little more "rule-breaking".
Basically; my idea was to make Ravagers be an essential part of Raids, as they'd be able to break blocks, this goes against Mojang's rule of mobs not being able to break blocks, but my thought process here was that Raids are completely optional (something that I think should be made obvious, who would've though that a curse can be removed by milk of all things), so Ravagers would essentially be a creeper.
This idea also makes base-building actually more impactful, as Ravagers would break different materials at different rates, as well as naturally making Raids more challenging as there's less ways to cheese them without necessarily buffing the other Illagers (although I do think Evokers needs a buff by making them more intelligent, they should run away more from a player like seriously).
I think the problem with survival is that you can simply skip the night and you are rewarded from that. Fighting in the night should give unique loot and food should be consumed quicker and you should get a bonus to health from eating a variety of foods.
Well fighting in the night gives unique loot, monster drops, many of these drops are useful/needed
@@yarno8086 But you don't need any of them to survive or progress. Except if you are going to the End in which case you only need to care about two mobs.
@@joaopedrocruz6432 that is true, but some things are really useful like string for bows, gunpowder for fireworks (lategame)
@@yarno8086 I'd argue, not really, night doesn't reward you anything that you can only get at night.
Those things you mentioned can be obtained at ANY day, through a simple process:
mob farms
I don't know if you still read comments on your old videos but I have a lot to say on this topic so I'm gonna write a text wall anyway. If you do see this, I’d appreciate it if you read it. Or anyone else that reads this tell me your thoughts, I like talking about this stuff.
I noticed how you pretty much tackled each point blow by blow from Jay Exci's and Whitelight's videos but the solutions you offered didn't take into account a key point they made. Whitelight described it as a spectrum of players, the intrinsically motivated and extrinsically motivated. I fall into the extrinsic side, and while I have tried to build just for the sake of personal gratification I just can't stay invested when the game doesn’t provide me with any more challenges to overcome. I fully respect intrinsically motivated players and I am glad they see something in the game that I don’t.
A common argument made is that Minecraft offers little to no reason to build other than to satisfy your own personal goals. You mentioned that there are ways to do this other than through base defense, as anything strong enough to warrant defending your base could ruin the experience for some players. There are in game examples of this such as redstone farms. Your point was that the reward for building in this case is not as quantifiable as “not dying”, instead that it provides you with satisfaction and an output of materials for other projects. This is just a longer way around to the same fundamental problem. At the end of the day, the satisfaction you feel only exists if you find personal reward in constructing farms, and the resources you acquire for use in other projects only matters if you find personal reward in pursuing other projects outside of the game’s set progression. There is no resource sink in the progression of the game (I see this as getting the best gear and beating the bosses) big enough that warrants constructing pretty much any automatic farm.
However I don’t think it’s fair to brush off defense as a valid motivator for building. Before I go any further, I fully believe this should all be customizable, the game is a sandbox after all. If you had to take measures to protect your base and if you had to make more effort to prepare for adventures, it would slow down the pace of progression while not ruining the flow of the game because you are using the extra time and resources to interact with Minecraft’s greatest asset; the building mechanics. Creativity can be expressed in how you shape the world and your structures to overcome the challenges. Redstone contraptions would have a whole new avenue of problems to solve. I think it’s unfair to dismiss survival-oriented players because their wishes would intrude on the game for creative people, there’s plenty of creativity to be had outside of aesthetics.
As for what these challenges that require creative use of the building mechanics to overcome would be, I’m not completely sure. I like Whitelight’s idea of a seasonal threat that is more dangerous than anything you will encounter in the time you have to prepare for it. And to ensure that you aren’t just surviving for the sake of surviving which is intrinsic, there should be a way to defeat this threat which would signify the end of the game. His example is a Winter army à la Game of Thrones, but I have a different idea. The final challenge could just be the Ender Dragon and the threat could tie into the End.
You may be thinking, “That’s not what Minecraft is about, you should sod off to a different game!” But I think that’s unfair. I grew up watching Minecraft survival videos like the Yogscast and I bought the game for that reason. I also fell in love with the art direction, music and random quirks that come with the game, same as everyone else. Why should I and countless others who agree with me have their dreams of the game be invalid? Especially those who bought the game back in Alpha, they paid for a product and now the game is completely different to what they paid for. I know they can still play the old versions, but should they be forever regulated to no multiplayer and no updates? I don’t think so. If the game is a sandbox, why is my version of the sandbox not worth the effort of the developers? There are many many many people that want more of a challenge in the game like I do.
I think Mojang could do a much better job appealing to everyone’s playstyles and wishes. The game rules on world creation they added is excellent, I just think there should be many more options. However just tweaking existing stuff with game rules is not enough. I think Mojang should prioritise more choices for survival-based players as there is a great wealth of potential waiting to be fulfilled. I shouldn’t have to spend months learning how to use Forge to develop a mod to enjoy a sandbox game. Even if I were to do that, there's no system for adding mods to Realms so I'd have to set up a server and go through loads of hassle. If modding is such a valid argument, why is it not better supported in game? Come back to me when there's a functional modding API that works across Bedrock and Java. Not that I don’t enjoy vanilla Minecraft, me and my friends get a realm every now and then and play and it’s great fun, but we never stay invested for too long because we run out of challenges to overcome presented by the game.
Thanks for reading, whoever may be reading this. Am I expecting too much? Should Mojang not throw away the very design principles that attracted a lot of us to this game in the first place? Tell me what you think.
This video was mostly aimed at Jay Exci's video. All the stuff whitelight mentioned is a lot more ambitious subject to tackle, but I would like to at some point. I'll definitely keep this comment in mind when I do because it makes some good points.
This is the most based comment I have ever read on a minecraft video, I completely agree. Even if they never go for a survival type game again I would really like to see some kind of progression system that actually requires building stuff. The game feels really stale right now, all there doing is changing things about the world and adding mobs. Even 1.18 doesn't add much outside of exploration, and I've been saying for years that the alpha versions have the best exploration because of how weird the terrain generation was, everything looks too normal now, caves and cliffs included. Something in minecrafts core game design needs to change before everyone else gets bored too.
@@sirpretzel822 Nah I still thing C&C us more interesting than alpha versions, cuz said weird terrain still exists in C&C (windswept hills/savanna and extreme terrain generation type independent from biomes) + more biomes, I guess it's less frequent than in Alphas but that's what makes it more special.
I firmly believe that adversity is the mother of creativity and that there should be more push for challenges that are tied into the mechanics. Whitelight especially made it clear that the removal of difficulty IN COMBINATION WITH a lack of new challenges and goals has left extrinsically motivated players in the dust. If the game wants to be open to everyone then it should have options to reward players who want challenges. I want to have some struggles in my game, but I'm not going to just put on difficulty modifiers like hardcore because there is no reward and there are no changes to how you play. The best way to win hardcore is to dig down three blocks and cover your head and you won. You are now immortal. That's not fun though.
Challenge isn't a limit, it is a goal.
Do I think Mojang will do this? No. I don't consider them very adept at developing minecraft into something at this point. It feels like we've been going sideways for the last five-plus years. It doesn't change the fact that I believe Minecraft should be designed to push and challenge people instead of just being a game that people add challenges onto.
Why would you consider "not dying" the ultimate goal of hardcore? Wouldn't you want to go kill the Dragon or something?
Try restoring a zombie villiage, killing the dragon, getting achievements, and you need a big house for enchanting, potion brewing etc. you need an organised storage system, which could involve red stone or what I do is often colour coding the walls and all, like a blue room for ocean stuff, brown for common buuilding materials, wool pattern for my colourful building materials, red for food, black for weapons and armour.
@@stm7810 Those are all intrinsic motivations. That's exactly what I'm saying is the problem. Those are all ideas for something I could make myself do because I want to and there is no other benefit.
@@Jasonwolf1495 You don't get much more extrinsic than actual achievements that play a cool sound on completion, what would you suggest instead? if you say more bars to track like hydration or temperature I will cry since those are anti-fun.
@@stm7810 A medal that says "hooray, you did it" is not a real reward. An extrinsic reward is part of a feedback loop. I do this, to get this, to do this, to get this, to do this.
So an example from within the game of an extrinsic reward (that will end in an intrinsic reward because the game doesn't have any good extrinsic end goals) You want to kill the ender dragon (intrinsic because there is no value to doing so), so you need to go mine, (extrinsic you need the resources to get to the ender dragon, You will be rewarded with materials for going mining), Going mining you get XP to upgrade tools to improve your mining (again extrinsic a usable reward that pushes you to do more), but then you end at the enderdragon and there is not an extrinsic reward (You could extend the chain to say the end cities, but then you still end the chain and as such the extrinsic reward stops mattering).
I feel like Minecraft should be a creative game before a survival one. In the market of games at large, Minecraft's complete-sandbox creative aspect stands out, whereas you can find hundreds of games with a survival bent if you want that--compared to much fewer games with a creative bent. The way it combines mechanics of complex mechanical design, combat, role-play, and survival with a focus on creatively shaping the world to control these mechanics is something I rarely see in game design.
You've been talking a bit in the discord about making a more direct response to whitelight's ideas, and so I decided to rewatch this vid.
My main disagreement is with the conclusion that "if you don't like it, go somewhere else." I believe Mojang doesn't need to compromise the experience of others to better accommodate players who aren't necessarily into automation or purely aesthetic, robust building projects. Funneling players down the route of constructing redstone farms and making pretty buildings doesn't have to be all there is to the game-- sandbox games are built for encouraging varied playstyles. For example, you could keep the beds while making nightly monsters drop more loot at the expense of being trickier and more intricate. That way, deciding whether or not to make a monster farm isn't based on what is definitely more efficient, but if you'd rather fight or gather resources.
I'm not necessarily arguing to shift the focus to extrinsic motivation, just that intrinsic motivations beyond automation and decoration should be acknowledged and given sufficient depth; this is why Whitelight's third video is probably his strongest.
I legit couldn't have said it better myself.
Make current survival an "Adventure" mode, and add in a new mode for actual survival. That way everyone's happy.
Maybe call it differently since there already exists adventure mode
@@usernamethenamed Adventure mode is just spectator with health
They should rather have “exploration” mode for survival without the hunger bar. Then they can go fuck around however they wish with survival mode. Cuz Hunger bar nowadays does not affect difficulties. food items, even without the bar still have its own unique uses in alchemy and breeding
In my opinion, they shouldn't have made hunger easier to deal with in update 1.11!
Although some players hated how quick the hunger could drop before 1.11, it was actually adding a much better challange for survival! You actually had something that you needed to gather/work more or you would die at least on hard mode and hardcore
It's being removed in combat snapshots iirc
my idea is to lock the bed behind the loom, maybe you would need to first make cloth in the loom, altough the loom currently is only used for things like banners, so the gui would need to be changed, it reminds me of terraria, back when i was shit at the game, i thought the only way to get beds to set your respawn point was thru finding it in the dungeon, altough even terrarias method of locking it behind cobwebs is nice since they can only be found in spider caves or in underground huts, and spider caves are the only places where you can actually find enough to craft them, locking them behind going deep underground, which makes the first nights unavoidable, which isnt bad, terrarias 2 main night enemies, the zombie and the flying eye i keep forgetting the name of have usefull (but relatively) rare drops that are a good bonus in the early game, and in terraria you can also afford to spend the night underground, due to torches being easy to make, since wood and slime (the 2 resources required) are both common on the surface, but also can be relatively easily renewed underground, i think if minecraft where to fix the issue with beds they should take a simular approach, locking beds behind the night or caving (with the loom) and giving the player and easy lightsource that is easy to get, but not sustainable/better than torches
yeah specific food categories for slower specific hunger loss is a good idea
You might like my mindful eating mod then
I mean they could just add a " true survival mode " for people who want a survival minecraft experience.
Possibly, but it wouldn't be a great use of time since it would only cater to a small group of people. Much better for modders to handle that.
You can't just add a true Survival mode, it needs to be thought out
@@bobisnotaperson i didn' t mean it like that it would be thought out.
What do you mean 'true survival mode'? It's either survival mode or not.
@@yungmuney5903 read the comant
6:19 "the challenge of living in a hostile world has been replaced by new challenges: how do I optimize this farm? how do I make this building look prettier? how do I make this redstone contraption work?" Is it so much to ask for both? To optimize this farm to get more resources to help me survive, To make my base prettier while still making it secure, to make a redstone contraption that can help defend my base and keep me safe. Would it really be so bad to have some sort of tangible challenge to overcome? Do you really think it would be just too hard and people would quit instead of rising up to the challenge of playing an actual game? Would you quit? The only thing keeping the game alive right now is relatively frequent updates but people get bored of those quickly, because once you've seen all the new stuff the game itself is boring now. There's barely any challenge outside of self imposed ones, and barely any reason to build anything unless you just want too. The average player can beat the ender dragon while bypassing 70% of the games world and mechanics, Piglins were the only thing in a long time that had any effect on beating the game, and of course they made it easier. Something needs to change, or this game will die when all the updates start to blend in together and change the game less and less and we are left with a tragic tale of what happens when you forget about game design in your game.
I definitely think a lot of people would quit, or modify the game to make it easier. Minecraft isn't a normal game - it's half sandbox, and a lot of people who enjoy that aren't going to enjoy difficulty.
I better choice for nerfing beds would be to bring back the nightmare mechanic. That mechanic didn't actually exist when I started playing, but because if misreading the wiki and not being use to game with updates I thought it did and acted accordingly. Combine this with the Minefantasy mod and I had a survival game that was still an exploration and adventure game -- though one thing about that is that, once vanilla wasn't a challenge anymore it was a mod (the best ever IMO) that made it survival.
If beds only sped up time it could work, since you'd need to make sure you're in a safe spot.
think about the ppl that dont like challenges
Played some of the older versions with that mechanic recently and it was kind of just annoying, so maybe if they did it in a better way then yes
Survival and bigger challenge should be rewarded. It shouldn't be forced to player and be optional. However, the encouragement comes from reward system. The more dangerous challenge the greater reward should be. For example player doesn't have to go caving and mining as simple hut,and a farm is enough for one to survive. But 99% clearly do, cause Minecraft is not survival game and as bland as caving is, it gives player reward like diamond or redstone.
More difficult challenges like defeating Ender Dragon and finding End City rewards you with shulker boxes and Elytra. If it just offered a few diamonds and some iron tools, majority of people wouldn't even consider doing so.
Making mobs overpowered is easy. Balancing it is challenging. Base mobs like Zombies, Skeletons, Spiders and Creepers shouldn't kill player in one or two hits. Their reward is low.
What game could do is to update mob AI and increase chances of more advanced variations based on your achievements. For example smelting, your first iron ingot increases chances of mob variation that uses some kind of iron tool by 25 percent. Any kind of armor by 50 percent. Full set armor 150 percent. It doesn't seem much but almost total of 470 percent increase is substitianial.
I agree with most of this, except I love caving and I don't think the game should change difficulty based on your progress
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy absolutely it should. Believe it or not but you can get to a point where you’ve done everything in Minecraft and you start to question why? At some point all challenge is removed and there is nothing left to do. A good challenge would solve this completely, however I do think it should take a different form. For example, instead of giving mobs better armor and weapons, the game could spawn new mobs with different mechanics. The challenge in Minecraft should come from adapting to the circumstances, not mobs that one shot you in full netherite. I already have many ideas on how to do this, but I am not a coder, so I can’t implement the changes.
One idea I had was completely changing the way weapons, armor and enchantments work to make room for two new tiers or armor. The second change could be a new dimension, the void. One of these new tiers of armor could be found in the end and another reward of killing the ender dragon. Not received directly from killing it, but obtainable through mining. I think one necessary step would b buffing the ender dragon to make it a more challenging fight (since those who seek out the ender dragon to fight it already want a challenge anyways). Once killing the ender dragon you are free to mine. Now this new year of armor would be almost entirely necessary for fighting a new boss.
Remember that void dimension concept? I think there should be a boss there too. This mob should be a huge challenge, possibly the hardest in the game since those who go here want that challenge. Upon death this mob could drop an item similar to a Nether star that could maybe make a stronger beacon or something. Maybe one of these could host all effects at level 2.
Let’s take a step back. My concept for the void would be a challenging dimension for those who want that challenge, but also having incentive to get there, but a boss that drops on overpowered item doesn’t quite fill the type of challenge I think the void should offer. The boss should be a challenge to get to. There should be other extremely powerful mobs in the way, not nearly as powerful as the boss itself, but at least on the tier of the wither, (the java wither that is) maybe just with less health.
So after conquering the void you have this new stronger beacon, but I believe that there should also be a new item in the void that can be mined and crafted into armor.
So now you have this new armor, two tiers above netherite, and you also have this buffed beacon item. Now here’s the part that I think could not work.
Mobs from the void begin spawning in the overworld, but they’re a much less significant challenge now. Not even on the level of a singular skeleton in the beginning of the game, but they’re everywhere. Now with your elytra, (which you should have after killing the ender dragon) these mobs are very avoidable, but they do pose a threat to those who want to do simpler tasks.
I disagree with the notion of simply having challenge in the form of difficulty settings or self-imposed challenges. One of the core ideas behind games is that the game should encourage the player to get better. If there is no reward in completing challenges then some players will never choose to take on a challenge.
There are plenty of games that offer extrinsic goals. The fact that Minecraft focuses on intrinsic goals is a big part of what makes it unique, even if this results in appealing to fewer traditional gamers.
One thing that they could do is make "passive" features, rather than "active" features. Your food concept is already a great example, but you could also do something similar with the whole temperature thing. Rather than being something that you have to actively keep up, or that deals damage to you, it could simply be a debuff. If you're in a cold biome, you get the "cold debuff", which slows down your health regeneration and speeds up your hunger bar. This effect could then be negated by warming up at a campfire (or other heat source), which would apply a temporary warmth effect for a few minutes, by brewing a potion of warmth using some new ingredient, or by making fur or wool armor (which then also adds further depth to the armor system). With this system, there wouldn't be any major annoyance about just passing through a cold biome or just quickly nabbing some spruce wood and sweet berries, but it would make building in those biomes a much more immersive experience with an extra challenge for those who want it.
I do think the lack of practicality and goals is definitely a point of contention regarding modern Minecraft. While some players might spend hours on a building for the sake of it, others won't care as much because the building mechanics are pretty lacking in extrinsic motivation and even intrinsic motivation in some aspects.
The fact that you even questioned this makes me feel weird
Depends on how you define survival.
This is a giant wall of text and I have a tl;dr and more information
I have an idea on how to improve survival without jeopardizing the casual audience. Maybe we should have a couple new game modes. Maybe these should focus on aspects of the game. There should be a game mode that is what survival is now and should be renamed classic or something in that lane. This would be for people who like the game as it is. Recipes are simple and there is only hunger and health. It’s exactly the same as it is now. You could have a survival mode that adds difficulty but not make things impossible. Enemies could be moved underground except illagers. Maybe they should be replaced by animals or easier mobs and the mobs moved underground could be buffed. Obviously you have to be sparring with your options and Mojang might have to be very careful with this. Survival could add some new systems but designed to be challenging but not annoying. This mode would be about slow progression and eventually you can survive easily. Maybe thirst, temperature, sanity, and nutrition. Sanity would replace insomnia and could be decreased by lots of things for example the soulsand valley biome. Nutrition would nerf things like steak and players would eat lots of foods. Thirst and temperature are probably the most creative jeopardizing changes. Thirst could maybe only decrease under certain conditions. Temperature could affect you but not restrict movement. Also all of these changes could be turned off. Similar to don’t starve but not as hard. This would be kind of niche but it would be nice. It would be a very satisfying because a build in this mode would require a lot of work. Maybe redstone and mechanical power could be the end game and conquest. Obviously this would have to be very well made. I think a good mod that could represent this idea is Terrafirmacraft. Now this would be not as aimed at casuals but it would be nice for people who like difficulty. Finally maybe a conquest mode that is about fighting monsters, managing villages, and raiding structures and dungeons. I think that you should customize everything. Do you want to disable phantoms as they are now, you can. Do you want harder mob ai, you can. So almost every player could be accommodated. Mojang should encourage parents to be involved with their Minecraft experience and adjust it according to their ability and maturity. If there is something still not available then mods can fill the gap. So, maybe no blood and gore or guns, but mods could do it. I think cannons are okay, but Mojang might not like it. This is obviously if I was the head developer. I think Mojang is doing a fantastic job and their direction is good.
More information:
Obviously industry that is post industrial is unfitting for the game and things like guns(except cannons, they fit. Mojang doesn’t want them though and I understand.) Obviously super complex systems might be bad for Minecraft’s audience (Such as some dynamics in Whitelight’s A Serious Improvement For Minecraft video) There are only a couple guns that could fit in anyway so mods should add those (There’ are great mods that add these but they don’t fit the game). Maybe do what Relogic did with Tmodloader and add semi official support for forge and fabric(they are the 2 main modloaders for Minecraft.) I would also do more charity events for preservation of nature and wildlife.
Final notes:
So I would love feedback. I know this is long. I think Mojang is doing great with the game and maybe they shouldn’t try being and RPG and I think they should focus on Minecraft Dungeons for RPG elements.
Tl;dr: maybe there should be a highly customizable experience that can accommodate most players needs.(For example: difficulty for hardcore players and easier and simplified gameplay for kids.) So, the game shouldn’t be true survival and rather about customizing gameplay and being a sandbox.
Edit: I enjoyed your video.
The problem I see with that is that Mojang might be unwilling to add a lot of different gamemodes as it could split the playerbase. What I see more likely is more ways to customise difficulty, which could allow for some of the changes you've mentioned. They sound interesting, although I disagree with a few.
Minecraft Abnormals That makes sense. I understand that concern. Maybe instead just have survival as it is now and just add customization or presents (Like the old classic world type). A present could be survival+, hardcore, conquest. We don’t need to add game modes. Maybe just add the customization without the new game modes. I would also love to hear the changes you disagree with (My bet is conquest and maybe the thirst, sanity, and temperature systems. Also complex crafting. It might jeopardize creativity). This was slightly inspired by Whitelight’s video (He also suggested new game modes, I just wanted to put my own spin on it. I’ll make a document with all my ideas and have you review them). Maybe we shouldn’t add new game modes but rather lots of customization. I agree that Mojang might not add this. This was just a idea. But maybe just add more customization. I also respect your opinion. I’ll also edit and explain some changes.
I wasn't expecting that big of a wall of text
forget the temperature idea
Excellent arguments & video mate. Enjoyed it!
I wanted cat statues that scare screapers since i learned cats did that. It feels cruel to have 40 pet cats that just sit for all their existance.
That would be cool, though do you find yourself with 40 cats often?
An older video, but I really hope you read this: As someone who misses the "necessary building to survive" direction that alpha originally cultivated with its difficulty and simplicity, I think a great compromise would be thinking of it less about "survival vs creativity", but I think there's an approach that sums up both of those sides:
Redefine it as recultivating the idea of base building, rather than just "survival". Tweak/add customizable features like terraria-style events(raids are a great proof of concept) that take advantage of minecraft's building mechanics better. That way you could design around both practical and aesthetic concerns with that mindset. You could build an absolutely practical fortress to survive a temporary invasion rigged with walls and traps, but you can also put in the effort to beautify it. As it stands, you technically CAN build such a thing, but theres no challenge that would require it.
Of course, this might just be nostalgia of playing alpha pocket edition and with the high zombie spawn rates, poor equipment and extremely dark, foggy world I would just naturally be encouraged to build walls to keep myself safe from the extremely dark and foggy alpha-era worlds, which felt like I was building a compound to stay secure. I guess TL;DR there should be more to defensively building as a mechanic that should not be able to be sidestepped except for lower difficulties, so that survival can recapture that "fight to defend your home and creativity" feeling of good basebuilding.
I'd love more functional base building. Planning to explore that topic in a video at some point
The last point missed the mark by quite a bit. Minecraft started its popularity as being a survival game. That attracted certain people, and that was the playerbase at the time. Over time, the game has changed more to appeal to a more passive audience, arguably. Your point doesn't account for the fact that the game shapes its audience, and it should not be the other way around. For instance, if suddenly the playerbase changed to be 90% bronies or something, would you want the game to change to accommodate that by adding things only bronies like, but nobody else does? No. The game should be itself despite the composition of the audience. That's not to say that community feedback is bad; it is a very good thing. But Minecraft is a survival game turned into a building game. That is why many nostalgic old-timers dislike it, not because they want to relive the past.
That's quite ironic, because my little pony started off as a kid's show but as the brony subculture grew they started putting more nuanced plots into the episodes.
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy And how would you know, hmm?
Heard someone talk about it once. Can't remember under what circumstances, but suffice to say I'm not a MLP fan.
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy That's a relief, lol.
Minecraft hasn't been a Survival game in a looooong time. Honestly if I was going for a survival experience i would play don't starve. Survival mode nowadays is mostly just for having fun with friends, you rarely see anyone play creative mode together.
But people played together back in the day to. Minecraft has such an original concept and comparing it to other survival games doesn't work. The core difference is freedom and creativity. The ability to fully manipulate your world. Instead of creating challenges that encouraged interesting solutions. Instead they catered to kids instead of focusing on an interesting experience
Idk bro I think stuff like raids and nether update content has encouraged plenty of interesting solutions.
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy interesting solutions to what? Raids don't encourage you to build. You can get so OP that you can beat a raid with your gear alone which is a whole other problem in itself. Also what in the nether update does that? It does encourage building in the nether but that wasn't really the point of the nether. It was a place you went reluctantly because there were things there you needed to go. Which is still kind of true but now they want you to conquer the nether as well. I think the idea of building permenant things in the nether would be interesting but it has to be expanded upon. The reason for building in the nether now is no different then the overworld: "because it's rewarding". But maybe there could be things in the nether you can't bring to the overworld which makes storage there more important. Striders kind of work like this but they are so easy to tame and they have no requirements to keep healthy and at perfect condition that building a strider stable serves no other purpose to look pretty or sentimental value to the strider you have. Spending more time in the nether could be interesting. But something has to be done with it. Obviously I'm just spitballin so not all of these ideas will work but ideas like them I think should be introduced instead of just making you more likely to build another useless house in the nether.
TLDR: the nether should be a place you go more. But not because it's easier to go there and there isn't as much challenge but because there would be benefits for being there besides just snatching blaze rods and wither skulls.
Piglins zombify in the overworld. That's a definite incentive. And sure, the player can get so powerful that they don't need to build anything. But does the game really need to force you to build for you to do it? Or should it just encourage it? Players are going to optimise the fun out of the game either way.
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy I'll give you that, piglins are an incentive, but you don't really need the stuff you get from them so it isn't really a definite incentive, they are only an incentive if you want to build a base in the nether, which is not encouraged at all besides the fact that it is more pretty and there are more tools to make the builds there look good. Minecraft never forced anything though. If you were good enough you could have survived the night back in the day. But that's the thing, it wasn't something most people could do. You had to really know what you were doing and the game rewarded that by allowing night exploration to still be viable. And the problem isn't with the players optimizing the fun out of it. This isnt the players fault, it's a natural instinct to find the best way to accomplish something but the lesson mojang needs to learn is that there should be no best way. It's the best way to encourgage creativity. And I have no idea what you are saying about just encouraging building, minecraft doesn't do that. It gives you a lot of tools to do whatever you want with them. The blocks don't work differently mechanically so there is no real point to using a particular block besides how you want something to look. Which I don't think is something that is needed, but having blocks match up geographically would look cool but I'm not sure what could be implemented to make that work. In any case survival mode is not a toolbox, that's what creative mode is for. So maybe for the vast amount of people that play survival because they like to collect the resources by hand, give them their own game mode, like conquest or whatever the whitelight guy suggested. Letting survival mode be survival mode is really important because right now it's cramped, it's trying to accommodate to many play styles and is making everything feel muddy and disconnected from each other. When you start to think about it, minecraft really isn't even a game at this point. The newer updates are trying to take it away from that but they really aren't. For example the drip leaf and spore blossom don't tie into anything else besides decoration. Encouraging exploration to get more tools is a bad way to encourgage because that only works when the player wants those tools, if you make the item desirable for everyone that's when you start to get true encouragement. As minecraft stands now it is just a great tool to me. But when you actually start looking at it as a game and using actual game design and analysis to look at it, it completely falls apart. I really want to start posting about this on the reddit though because I think it's something that really has to be addressed and hopefully in those posts they will be more coherent.
2:40 I disagree. The entire difference between a survival mechanic and an adventure mechanic is that survival challenges come at you whether you like it or not, this creates pressure that feels much more rewarding to escape from. Having broken mechanics like beds, sprinting, and shields can be simply avoided, but the simple act of avoidance actually changes the whole essence of the experience, because the entire experience is now framed as an easily avoidable (and not very rewarding) effort. Intentionally throwing yourself into an unfavorable position surrounded by mobs just to have the experience of escaping them is still not the same experience as being surrounded by mobs and escaping them.
Alternatively, if the devs made survival much more challenging, there still exists peaceful and creative for the sandbox players. But as soon as a player clicks survival mode, they should expect to have survival experiences.
First part was pretty good and agree with for the most part.
I don't necessarily think that survival has to be so challenging by default that it drives certain people away to creative/peaceful, but I do think they should make the challenge optional in a way that doesn't interfere with sandbox players, but not in the same way as said 2:40.
Kinda like Raids, or Bastion Remnants but with more rewards and less chessy where a player has to intentionally go to that place/cause that event in order to get rewards (not that same as throwing yourself in a zombie horde without armor even though you could just bow them with full gear, as you mentioned), and there's not an option to cheese them by hitting their feet behind a wall or something.
So still completely optional, but once a player is there; there's no option to do it the easy way.
This is kinda my problem with Ancient Cities, Raids, Bastion Remnants etc. at its current state, they are already completely optional but there's still an option for them to be easy through cheesing, like:
Wardens can be killed by pillaring high enough and using a bow, or bringing Iron Golems on a leash and some iron ingot so the golem can tank all the hits while you get the loot/kill it.
Raids and Bastion mobs don't have a counter against walling/pillaring + wall combo, hell; they get stuck on their own natural environment without even player intervention.
Sure, we can do it the "survival way" but when we know that we could've just used very cheap tactics and could've had it very easy, it ironically enough; intrinsically negatively affects extrinsic (survival) players.
Yeah, it's a long way of saying what you essentially just said.
@@user-tzzglsstle585e38 thats not really cheesing. These are things that need setup
Especially the golem. If you built golems thats not a cheese. You need tons of golems to fight the warden
Also raids cant be pillared because of evokers
@@masterdeetectiv9520 Just because it needs a setup doesn't mean it's not a cheese or an exploit, because guess what?
Every single cheese and exploit requires one.
The problem with this is how easy golems are to come by since Iron was made easy to come by either through farming or ore veins.
Also, yes Raids can be pillared, all you have to do is shoot the evoker before it gets close enough to cast a spell which is not that hard to do, and they only appear in Raids like twice at most, 90% of the time; you can just pillar it and no one (not even pillagers) can do anything to you.
Just saying that i want mobs to break block and jump tiny holes
Breaking blocks would be griefy, but maybe they could phase through them.
only if they hold the right tool, since zombies with tools is unlikely on easy and normal but a big thing on hard difficulty they could use picks to break your iron doors and stone walls, shovels to dig into your dirt hole or axes to cut through wooden defences, though over all more mobs like vexes that will phase through blocks to get you would be great, with some thing like obsidian anchors or something to prevent them.
@@stm7810 it might be challenging, but it'd be pretty annoying for builders. Especially late game when zombies aren't a threat anymore, one breaking down your door just becomes a nuisance, and only using obsidian or other hard blocks to stop it isn't really an option
I think it'd be a good fit for a nether though, since that area already has a lot of un-builder friendly mob mechanics. Wither skeletons seem like a good option since you couldn't cheese them with a two-high ceiling anymore, or maybe some new mob entirely
@@starrysock You can build without considering traps in peaceful, or just prevent spawns near by and use a wall or something.
@@stm7810 I still like the challenge of fighting mobs, I just don't want zombies poking holes in my builds.
And sure, you can just light everything up. But it's easy to miss a few spots. And in the meantime, you have mobs chipping away at your base. It's like how endermen slowly erode any areas that aren't 100% lit up
Like I said though, it'd only be a challenge your first few days. Once you get a sword that can kill zombies in 1 or 2 hits, one breaking in isn't gonna be dangerous, it's just gonna be a nuisance
1:55 complex food should have multiple benefits
Ultimately I think it comes down to difficulty mixed with lack of combat-oriented blocks.
What I mean by difficulty is that currently, as far as I'm aware, game difficulty is just a spawn-rate adjustment and perhaps a minor number tweak.
Some nice changes would be if easy mode turned off creepers but was otherwise unchanged. Then you could add armored/armed mobs to normal mode that scale with accomplishments like going to the nether and the end. Skeletons could get chainmail and enchated bows, zombies could get stone axes and leather armor, and cave spiders could start spawning after going to the nether. Maybe after going to the end, add in iron armor and axes for the zombies, maybe better enchants all-round. Spiders would maybe need a big-brother to impliment this. Wither skeletons and phantoms should probably be added at this point as well.
Then for hard mode you can make the mobs smarter. Make zombies and skeletons seek each other out to group up and keep out of skeletons' firing lines. Make skeletons seek out spiders to become jockies. Maybe creepers could spawn in overcharged. I think block destruction should be avoided, but a simple condition to let zombies help each other over obstacles and keeping their ability to smash down wooden doors on hard mode would be a good idea. Though I'd also speed it up a little to be slightly slower than a player destroying it. With more speed if they have an axe, obviously. I'd step up the drop rates as well as the enchated equipment potency as well. It's important to reward players for choosing a higher challenge. Maybe even add a rare chance for a wither to spawn on hard mode once you've gotten to a nether fortress.
As for combat-oriented blocks, there's really not a good way for players to go about trapping their bases or villages in an aesthetically pleasing way. Pit traps, lava-blades, and arrow dispensers are all well and good, but some spikes, guard villagers, and some simplistic turrets to expand on the dispensers would be nice. Options beyond a fence and torches to provide adequate defence for places. Though, realistically, simplistic turrets would be more reasonable to archer villagers instead.
I really like how these ideas also incentivize a larger variety of food types. So many foods in the game are pretty much useless when you reach a certain point since you only need 1 good food farm to survive with enough food. But making different foods react differently depending on what the players need would be massive for incentivizing new gameplay
I ended up making it into a mod, there's a development log on it. But it ended up making the food system much too complex - I actually do think alpha food would be a better place to start now.
Minecraft has plenty of fantastical elements and items that could be used to take a large amount of stress off of surviving even in harsh conditions.
Great a new video
I would love to have a survival-esc game in Minecraft, but i feel as though i would never play Minecraft after like a week. so maybe if they did some game mode?
nice video, but why’s the footage so frameratey?
Old computer
Arcane and Cooking Update gotta get pushed next on my lord
I think that one thing that could solve this would be to add a new game mode specifically dedicated to survival. Like have creative as a way to build and come up with ideas and experiment. Have hardcore as a difficult challenge of surviving in a balanced world. Have survival as a balanced way to explore creativity and sandbox ideas while still having some type of danger and challenge. And add a new survival+ mode or something. This game mode would specifically be made to be focused on survival and could add mechanics that would bring the game closer to a survival game without braking existing game modes like creative, hardcore, or regular survival modes. It would allow for people that want to focus more on the PVE aspect of the game and world to get that without frustrating people that like building and creative expression more then just the act of survival in a harsh environment.
That is why phantoms are so bad, the night should be an optional challenge, and should reap rewards, not punishment for taking it
This man is big brain
Incredibly underatted!
big brain
If they get rid off of that stupid rule that nerfs wild animals because "they not want to encourage players and people to kill them on real life", add another challenging elements like temperature, rotten food, sicknesses and battle wounds (having an option to choose that difficulty or putting it into the "hardcore" pack ) it would be a survival game again, even making more of the resourses not renewable (except by biological ones and water) it would be interesting to have to use cauldrons to boil water and make it sure for drinking, being able to use barrels as fridges for keeping food edible (using ice or snow as a fuel), ovinae, bovinae and horses being actually able to eat grass and needing to use bone meal to regrow it, pigs needing carrots, potatoes, etc to eat and being able to search trufles, and a lot of interesting features.
To be fair, what else could they do to make animals more challenging when most animals they're adding are like frogs and Axolotls...
I think the way they're doing animals is fine, rewards through interaction with them which is better than rewards through fighting them anyway, cuz the thing about this is that... adding challenging mobs and adding mobs to raise awareness is NOT mutually exclusive.
The problem with them is not that they add animals the way they are, is that just they aren't focusing on adventure/combat/extrinsic focused features enough...
I personally like this game the way it is if you don't like it play another game or make your own.
As a programmer, you're variable hunger idea is a good one and I'd bet we see it in 1.25 "Food and Fighting" update, but the code for it would be a relative nightmare to adapt from the current code, so it wouldn't be implemented quickly, or at all, unless there was a STRONG community call for it across all Minecraft play styles!
I've actually been working on a mod to make it work. Had to use a lot of events, it would be much easier if it was just directly in vanilla code
Dude I thought you weren't allowed to sell mods on Java apparently the Mojang's FAQ
It's alright if they're betas
My issue with Whitelight’s video and subsequent suggestion video are that what they’re asking for is just too much. Like, watch it for 5 seconds and he’s asking for Dynamic Gameplay, Complex and Deep Villagers with Relationships and Doing Jobs in the real world, many things that have been rejected, a whole ass multiverse. Like? When is enough enough? Minecraft’s beauty comes from it’s simple mechanics that have hidden depth and potential. If you complicate things, you alienate large portions of the playerbase. Minecraft is not about Survival, it’s about creating your own beautiful world or discovering it’s beauty. If you TRULY want that survival experience, play The Forest or download mods.
However, I will say that Minecraft needs an additional difficulty level such as Expert Mode for people that really want a challenge. But besides that, Mojang should be focused on making the game more interesting to explore and build in. 1.16 and 1.17 have taken this to the max, making both the Nether and Caves extremely interesting to explore while also adding so much in regards to building and redstone.
If a New Dimension ever comes to Minecraft, it will need to come at a time when Minecraft has already fleshed out every other facet of it’s gameplay. One thing I do have qualms about with Minecraft is it’s Mid to Late Game progression. Having another dimension required to visit would be a great way to make unlocking the End Portal more interesting
I think he tends towards more emergent gameplay in his third video. Still pretty ambitious though, I agree with you
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy Okay, just rewatched the third one cause I only watched the two. It felt too over the place. Like he had 30 Ideas and he just threw them at us. I agree with making the world more interesting to explore and fighting more dynamic, but epic sieges and 20 different resources and OP loot, it just doesn’t fit the game. Doesn’t help he just drops “‘New Dimension” at the end with basically no elaboration at the end.
Haha yeah, I am planning to make a video covering the philosophy that lead to those ideas later on
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy I look forward to it!
@@BigMastah79 Mojang could just add a new mode with all of those features to satisfy the people who want them. Therefore it's a win win. People who like the simplicity of Minecraft can play in one mode while people who want a challenge and a more complex experience and all of the other stuff can play in the new mode. However why do that when Hytale is gonna be a thing lmao?
I think Minecraft should be harder or more survival like on certain regions/biomes like in the deep dark it will be harder and more sandbox in another regions that way all the people will be satisfied. For example we could have a biome that it is harder to survive for whatever reason like the nether waste. And also we could (and we are having) have rare blocks on this areas. (End Midlands.) :3
cam why is this gameplay so laggy
not everyone has 2080Ti. just recording + playing maybe or the fuckup on latest snapshot idk which one it is.
Yeah I just have a bad computer lol
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy F
Damn, cam sounds so young in this vid, also in my opinion Minecraft should stay as it is for the time being.
I see where you're coming from, It is a sandbox game, it's not meant to be survival, but you can try and make it harder to see if it fits you, I have an idea I don't think anyones considered. I think, if you can get hard achievements like killing the wither, the game should get slightly harder, like more enchanted swords for zombies and whatnot, if you die, normally you can always get your stuff back or replace it quickly, this would also make it harder to play hardcore as the longer and better you play, the harder it gets, and remember, you can't die or it's all over.
Your idea kinda reminds me of terraria Hardmode. I think it could be activated more deliberately than the wither because a lot of people use the wither
This account is really wonderfull
My pre watching view is no it should not be a survival focused game the exploring and building part are better, and even more so the multiplayer experience(talking for java here) for example it is fun to fight other players in multiplayer servers more powerful enemies detract from that goal, there is much more fun in killing players or roleplaying or building or blocky politics instead of surviving
it is not a good direction it should focus more on the multiplayer aspect and the building aspect and the exploration aspect because all those are most important
Yes but no matter what you should alway be able to get to a point when you can essentially be in creative mode without flying and being able to die under extreme circumstances
I have always loved Minecraft as the customizable game it is. As a fan of survival games, I do feel that MC's survival is lacking, but that's what data packs and mods are for.
I thought it was a sandbox
Same
Damn
YES
Reads title, but Minecraft i...
*SHHHHH*
I have to dissagree, minecraft really has to go back to it's roots, because playing minecraft now is just borring and not rewarding in the slightest, here are my reasons:
-With a bed now you can just wonder the world willy nilly without a problem, allowing you to skyp the night indefenettly, giving you no reason to ever build a house if you don't want one.
-Diamonds can now be found on the surface in villages, and in desert and jungle temples (yes those two have traps, but let's by honest, if even 10 year old me in 2012 was able to figure it out you can just skip those traps by minning around them, then everybody can.), removing the need to ever mine in the game
-Also the shields in these game are just to op, blocking an entire creeper explosion with an wooden shield, should tell you that there is something wrong with them.
People shouldn't have to be forced to build a house, mining isn't just done to find initial first diamonds, and shields are being changed in combat snapshots. There are ways to win the game without mining, but winning isn't the only way to play Minecraft
Yeah I think caves and cliffs will give reason to go back underground. Running around during the night isn't really that fun so people build a base anyway so they can do stuff during the night in one place without being interrupted
yes
Damn the fps
I don’t really play survival too much, since I prefer Creative.
FPS turn into second per frames
Lol yeah I didn't have a good computer back then
The hunger idea is extensively unnatural... and incompatible with any modding. I would just decrease the hunger gain from food
Minecraft already has the hunger System! It just doesnt effect the game that much! It just slowly turnes the hungerbar down.. It would be better if it would turn it down more so you really get to see it, but Mojang probably didn't want to change the whole game by doing that! Just a little change in the background...
either way there should be some reason to not just eat steak all the time haha
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy Yea
You completely skipped around the question and didn't give answers other than, just because, or do it yourself.
You're also completely ignoring why returning people are complaining, it's not a fun game to play as a game. In terms of game design, Minecraft is awful at what ever it's trying to be. Minecraft isn't a game anymore, it's been reduced to a tool used for making other things, and it's not fun to play as a game anymore.
Not to mention creative mode is the fully sandbox game mode, why does 'survival' mode also need to be creativity focused now. Why can't you just play creative mode, impose your own challenges, as you might say?
> Not to mention creative mode is the fully sandbox game mode, why does 'survival' mode also need to be creativity focused now. Why can't you just play creative mode, impose your own challenges, as you might say?
I second this, but he did reply to the question: No, minecraft is a sandbox game
Just because you don't enjoy it doesn't make it bad game design. Survival mode is creativity focused because people enjoy the limitations surrounding it, but creativity is still very possible within it. It's a lot easier to add more restrictions to survival than to add them to creative (since you're a god in creative)
Gonna have to disagree on the point of survival not being about creativity. The point of survival is to find creative solutions to unavoidable problems and alpha minecraft did that great but definitely needed expanding as it was quite basic and Mojang should have expanded that aspect of the game. The aspect that made the game so interesting in the first place
"Minecraft shouldn't be a survival game," should not be used as an excuse to make survival mode easier. The point of survival mode is to be a survival game, and that means that it should be difficult. If you want a sandbox game, then there's creative mode for that.
Survival mode is also about getting resources
That should be where the difficulty lies. In getting the resources
They recently did this by adding more steps in progressing from diamond to netherite
There is this mod called terrafirmacraft which cranks the survival aspect to a 100. For example you need to actually do metal working to get metal tools
Its extremely hard but not in combat. On the surface mobs dont spawn even at night, only in caves
So there are ways to make the game harder without a combat element
I think we should do 2 main things first...
1. Make mending harder to get... And make it so you can't see what enchanted books you are getting from Liberian villagers when you use the lectern
2. Rework phantoms. At first they were cool until they annoy everyone on multiplayer servers...
And how exactly would you do those two things?
For the mending issue, make it so that you can’t trade for mending books, only dungeon loot. Maybe the end could spawn extra mending books to encourage exploration of the end. As for the phantoms, I think your suggestion when you are only in the nether (and probably the end) it caused insomnia.
mending is fine.
here’s why: That solution would be fine with single player worlds, but with multiplayer servers, where everyone wants mending, that creates more demand than supply. You would need fly for ages until you find an end city, and then you get one with curse of vanishing on it as well. It just screws you over for exploring, which is definitely not what we want added to Minecraft.
Make mending have a skill based way to get it perhaps
Maybe when the evoker is killed by a player, it drops a mending book, to encourage fighting raids, but not make raid farms better.
Bruhhhhhhh
To all the people who don’t like difficulty; why do you play games? An inherent part of a fun game is challenge. If there’s nothing to stop you from “winning” the game, you’re basically playing cookie clicker. There’s no “game” without challenge.
Many people prefer games you can kick back and play a bit after work, with not much grind
@@masterdeetectiv9520 grind is different than challenge.
@@Captain-mz6mg challenge is also a form of grind because you have to play a lot to get good
I think we’re thinking of two different types of challenge, and if people want a game without challenge, there are games designed specifically for that.
preffer survival
For sandbox use creative, the lack of chalenge is the reason why the game is dying, SURVIVING must be the objective in survival mode, not building and collecting, these should help the main objective
The main aspect is still building. Only in survival you have to gather resources too
@@masterdeetectiv9520 yes, and that is ten problem
controversial take but: minecraft should never be a survival game or challenging, making the game harder just puts a barrier of entry, and not everyone has the time to "get gud"
also, mobs are way too annoying already, so i do not want them to become any harder.
tldr: minecraft should be easy, since most people aren't dream,if you disagree, then go play dark souls or somthing idk
Trash take lol
@@yungmuney5903 controvertial, not trash
A barrier to entry is a small price to pay for a better game. If it's too hard for people, they can go play Mario or something.
If it's too easy for people, they can go play dark souls or something
@@sirpretzel822 subjectively better*
13 frames a second
It's better now
@@MinecraftIdeasAcademy Good for you man, that looked painful to play
Minecraft is bad at survival. We all know that. But there isnt so much that could be done without changing a lot
Minecraft is bad at survival, it's also bad at being an RPG because it isn't one lol