Best thought at 8:02 : "...when you buy a ship... you're either going to buy an ornament, or you're going to pay for an experience." Best simplefaction of the entire lose-your-ship-forever issue I've ever heard or read. Enjoyed your thoughts & reflections, and hearing that you finally started hsving fun once you broke through 'the fear barrier.' 'Everything you've ever wanted is on the other side of your fear.'
Playing Eve became more expensive. Paying for game and in-game assets. Thats why ppl tend to be more carefull than years ago. I've never seen so many T1 frigs and cruisers ;-)
@@Agnus78 Scarcity did not make things better; it made less people play and people play less. Now Eve Omega is the most expensive MMO subscription price to be had; why should ppl fork over even more money just to 'get ahead'? Before Alpha-Omega everybody's subscription got paid for by someone. Now the economy has been thrown into chaos because that balance has been destroyed. Eve was pay-to-play; it's become pay-to-progress.
The corp I'm in encourages everyone to go out and have fun. Do what YOU want. If YOU get blown up, then learn from Your mistakes. In the end EVE is just a video game. You win, You loose. Keep playing and keep learning.
As a player from the beginning of EVE we all have our stories. and from first hand experience being betrayed is still the most painful thing that can happen. it's a hard game that is what makes It compelling. Fear is the mind killer and EVE resembles life and fear effects people in the real world the same way. It prevents experience thus it prevent growing and learning.
I passed in abeyamce but your Dune reference was EXACTLY what I was thinking too. H8 to be Thufir and MISCALCULATE what some Pirate Corp is willing to do to mine our shining Tears.....
Saraf 01 - Well made point which I agree with. I just wanted to add that fear is also a natural function for life to compel behaviours. It can be a tool if one chooses. A tool for good and bad. Fear is ever present in me and I have learnt to use it constructively.
To start off, I was in PF not too long ago and I started off with a Rorq and 2 barges. Then had one of my barges graduate to a Rorq. I wasn’t around when Rorq’s were at their prime but I really enjoyed having my Rorqs out moon mining. I agree that the risk adverse mindset is a crutch. However, the ROI needs to be there in order to make that investment worth it. Having 20+ billion worth of assets on the field isn’t always worth it and those are the times that you have to make a decision on how you want to handle your stuff. The industry changes and what not have not helped with that. In my opinion, I wasn’t scared to field my toys, I just paid attention to the environment to get a feel of when I should use them and when it wasn’t worth the risk. I wish I would have recored it, but I ended up getting tackled by a hunter working with Pando. He ended up tackling a super too so we were able to fight the tackle off of us. Then I was tackled by a bomber fleet and ended up living through that giving my response fleet plenty of time to get there. Industry guys tend to be more careful with their stuff because we know what it takes to make it. At least these are my views. I understand being excited to finally use it. Once that wears off though you open your eyes to making smart decisions on what you are willing to risk.
I completely agree, it is possible to survive you just have to be smart. Something I do now if I don’t want to siege is I drag mine with trailing hulks then bring in a bare orca to warp in deploy for a cycle so the rorq can compress. Then warp the orca off.
I spend most of time in low sec flying faction warfare and I go exploring everywhere in New Eden. I think null sec is the safest area in Eve and having the protection blanket of system control by large corps/alliances breeds the paranoia
I think the issue is that people don't gradually build up the risk. Start in easier environments or in fleets before you're ready to do more risky endeavors.
Great topic, I see this paranoia everywhere and had it myself for many years. I really wanted to blitz lvl 5s for the longest time. I was told doing lvl 5s is suicide and that pirates will immediately gank me and the setup is too expensive and it's not worth it and on and on. I ignored that because I knew they made a lot of isk and basically spent months, years even, trying to figure it out. I'm happy to say I've been doing them for five years now and never lost a Thanatos and make more isk than I know what to do with. Don't listen to the FUD. I wouldn't be where I'm at now if I listened to the people grinding lvl 4s in Marauders pre-buff.
Yessss! I agree completely with this attitude towards risk. I loved being in a large nullsec alliance for a bit until I started getting nagged at for flying capital ships. I get that they are all worried about killboards and attracting enemies to the area but surely this is content and good for everyone. I should be able to choose to risk whatever I want.
I get the whole fear of undocking, or rushing to the station at the first sign of trouble. I used to feel that too at the beginning. Now I “daily” fly a cloaky 1.5 billion Tengu into low sec, null, WH without fear and also make about 10x to 20x that with it before I do something dumb and get blowed up. Also, those once in a while trips into hi sec or jita is so weird.
I remember when corps started giving people shit for losing there on property that they owned and not Corp owned, because it showed on the kill boards. Holyshit, earned enough for 3 fully equipped carriers before losing one? Loses don't matter as long as you are out producing the other guy.
It's been like that forever for pvp corps when kbs became a thing. The risk aversion trickles heavily into pvp where people don't want to fly anything worth too much because it'll mess up their kb stats. The real Chads are the ones that have the balls to go out there in an expensive fit and pick fights they know they might lose.
It just depends on what area and alliance you are in. I was in an area where we was risk adverse to a certain extent. Because why lose rouqes for no good reason. But we would also set baits and traps to wreck fleets using them too.
This a real thing, and does ruin Eve for a lot of people, always feeling the prey and just hiding away. But as a PVE runner the game has designed you to be the prey. Your fit for PVE won’t allow you to fight back. Your activity will carry that risk of being caught (that 1 rat that seems to scram you as neuts come in system etc). You should Always use your assets in Eve how you want to however. The problem is “just not caring” isn’t really an option for most people. That ship cost Isk (your time in game or your money in RL). So just buying another Rorq when you lose it isn’t viable game play option. You’ll spend too much time grinding for things you can lose in minutes or spend too much RL money long run? High chances as well you won’t lose your ship in a way that was fair or even odds of winning the fight. There’s a reason they call them Bitter Old Vets 😁
yah, i know plenty of people that quit the game because they lost a jump freighter or rorqual....its just too time consuming and soul destroying to replace what you lose... the pvp roaming gangs often fly about in throw away cheap ships, while your'e stuck inplace in siege in a 3-4 million+isk rorq...and then they continually nerf the big indsustry ships, because the pvp'ers keep whining that their cheap ship can't kill an expensive ship...the balance in this game is a joke..
I feel ya on this. They would tell me if i got caught and died, they would come for more targets later. Thats why i spend so much time solo. Haven't played in a while.
the games toxic devlopment and community over the last 12 years have created the 2 precious to undock/cant afford to replace mentality. 10 years ago that was rare. stuff was cheap and replaceable. Now shit that should be 1bn tops costs 10bn, and the income streams are 1/20th what they use to be 10 years ago. so Less income + insanely high prices = fear of loss mentality. This is mostly CCPs fault too.
I agree with you 200%... If you're "too paranoid and afraid" of even undocking and experiencing the game for what it truly has to offer, then you need to close down and shutter or sell your accounts and move onto something that won't leave you "steeped and frozen in Fear" it's a total WASTE of your life and efforts to be that way and it just makes me furious to think that players would give that kind of Agency over their selves to trolls and gankers who find it hilarious that they can bully freely with no repercussions or blowback. I spend Iskies to have experiences and who cares if assets get destroyed in the process? That's a part of the experience of EVE!
Hah! I got my Venture destroyed by a Catalyst on my 2nd day playing. I dealt with it by learning how to use D-scan. I've lost two Retrievers since then, one in LoSec, and one in WH space. The first one taught me that people can reship, and warp right to the bookmark they set in their Venture. The second experience taught me about cloaked ships. I bought 5 more Retrievers and modules, and went right back at it, but I only fly Ventures in LoSec and through wormholes so far. I really enjoy being the "vigilant mouse", and depriving would-be gankers of a kill. Especially when it costs them time.
Feel this, and had my corp and alliance corps chew me out for a lost orca. In the end you learn and I totally think you got it!! fly how and what you want to!!
Thank you for sharing. This is a refreshing and healthy attitude toward the game. To add to the paranoia point, a place or player with a lot of losses on zkillboard could attract pvpers looking for kills. I could see the risk aversion being a tactical concern but taken to an extreme. Other than that, I think there is a lot of insecurity in Eve players. There's so much exaggeration about how everyone can afk billions of isk per hour ratting or they made 10 billion isk station trading as an alpha in their first week of playing. Players fly "cheap" T3 Cruisers that they say they can replace in an hour tops but in reality it probably took them far longer, or PLEX, to save up that amount of isk. Any loss shatters that illusion and there's a ton of shame that comes with not being able to live up to that unrealistic standard. Maybe isk really was that trivial to make during the Rorqual era but it seems to be more difficult now.
Honestly, I think there are two factors to it - for one, ISK was more trivial to make during the Rorqual era, yes, but for two, materials where far more readily available - meaning things where plainly *cheaper*
Brother I recently returned to EVE and I can't agree more. I have this very sentiment, lately, as I observe people turtling up and not actually playing anymore. I dunno... idling endlessly in a station just doesn't seem like fun. If you're that worried about losing ISK, maybe stop buying blingy stuff or something? I dunno. Love your take on this. Cheers
This has been annoying me for many years, which is why I tended to play solo or with a small ad-hoc groups of people. My attitude is - I came here to play the game and have some fun, so the fun shall I have. Never cared about losses, had no problem buying a PLEX or two if it stood between me and my fun of the day. I didn't do anything really stupid, but I had to fear of losing everything. I lived solo (with a couple of alts of course) in a wormhole with a lowsec static for like 3 months - including running all logistics to and from WH, mining, ratting, doing PI, relic/data/sleeper sites, reactions, industry - pretty much everything I could possibly do there (except for Upwell structures as they were not a thing back then) - not so much to make ISK, but to just experience what it's like. I did end up making quite a bit of ISK and managed to move out without any losses, but that has never been a goal, and I had a lot of fun in there for sure.
Thanks for sharing, I appreciate your insights. Demonstrating a learning progression is a key factor for success with any endeavor. Remember playing chasey or tag at school? Everyone wants to be chased and no one wants to be "it". There are many immature characters in Eve that have it around the wrong way and think they can get satisfaction from destroying yours. They are wrong.... It is much more fun to be the rabbit than the fox.
I am glad i play this game like a single player game and have no contact with anyone in the game. and playing this from 2010 and treating all players like they are the enemy.
I have a similar "issue" where I have my Mining Alt train to fly a thanatos, and now that I have a thanatos with T2 fitting, I still have to gather up my courage to undock the thanatos and do anything with it.
Finally a rational person! Personally I have always been using Hulks and Orca in wh...because they mine the biggest amount. Heard this MANY times: "In wormhole you should never use anything more expensive than Retriever". Like I care mate, it's slow..af.. So no thanks. Fast ships are there to make you faster, or in this case, mine faster :D Damn I'm dreaming of a Rorqual so bad and this video undoubtly revived my old dream. Just flying the big stuff is good. Freighters aswell. It's just awesome so them move (small boy inside). Rational thinking, be smart, D-scan A LOT, safe spots and so on helps soooo much. The same thing goes for transportation... oh man, when I recently discovered how easy you can run through a gate camp with bubbles and all... in a deep space transporter?! I never in EVE felt more like trying again so find the limit to it. I would say the whole thing about tactics and patience really makes it feel good to run off when 10+ ships are ready to demolish your hauler that's way overloaded with way to expensive stuff and you just warp off without any trouble. Gotta love it even though your heart is racing 250bpm when you see red and yellow all over the overview. Love your mindset.🤘
i'm with you, i've gotten to a point where i do play carefully with my big toys, but that's to earn isk to do stupid shit whenever i feel like it, it's been a liberation without equal to get out of the risk averse mindset.
I returned after years of not playing yesterday. I took a couple of billion in assets that I had left, loaded them up in my freighter and made the journey to my new home 34 jumps away. I could of (maybe should of) split it up over multiple trips but it would of taken so much time and would just feel plain boring and like a job. And in the end I made it, I saved a lot of time and I think time is the most valuable asset in EVE to me. All that time I would of spent hauling back and forth can now be used to make more ISK and actually enjoy playing the game in the way that I want.
I've been a member of a hisec corp years ago and we've been mining in Heimatar and Metropolis very frequently (usually 20+ ppl with Orca and freighter). Ofcourse that ppl were a bit concerned about gankers but thats what good fits and intel is for. At some point we had squad of logis on belt and a Scorpion ship. Not sure if they would work as we've never really needed them but it was fun to sit in belt and mine, combat squad just flew around and fool. We chat and tell jokes or stories from RL. We lost maybe one newbie Covetor but all gank attempts vs our Hulks and Procurers were unsuccesful. I know its a different story in lowsec or null but in the past Eve was fun becaouse everybody wanted to take a risk of undocking. Inflation and higher sub cost changes it, sadly.
Hell yeah Jake glad to hear you are having fun with it! Ya know - I struggle a lot with that sort of fear too. It's sinister because in reality you only pay attention when things affirm that fear, so it grows. I played eve a bit, got ganked, blown up, struggled with those mafia idiots too, never really had anyone to play with, and I was given a "skill plan" by each corp I joined, back when we had to pay per month, and they would just ignore me. Not use my toon for anything I was trained for. I had the bad experiences and quit, I don't remember a single good time in that game, just building for one that never came. Cheers dude - good luck out there!
I have met some real interesting people and have made some great friends that unto this day I still speak to since the very beginning of eve. Such an amazing game.
play in quite time zones, know your enemy. Look at Zkill see what people are ganking rorqs in and fit to counter their tactics. Are their other rorq pilots who have been tackled? did they live? what was their fit? Are you at war? who with? what do they gank large things in? Some pointers. Heavy neuts x1-2 are really op to stop tackle couple that with smart bombs vs sabre bubbles. It's ok to take agro and warp to a fortizar so the fortizar or other strucutre can be manned. neuting out tackle and using drones to slap them is viable. always have at least 1 cap injector preferably 2, and have emergency drugs for shield reps.
This was my strategy for a long time, nothing is more pleasing then nueting out a tackle or popping a bubble. More recently I’d put my alt in a bait rorq in a small POS within 14au of the gate so they saw it first and would tunnel vision scan for it while I dipped out.
@@JAKEL33T the Rourq in a POS within 14 AU is a very slick move to give you scramble time to deactivate the siege mod and cloak up/warp to safe. It’s really obvious and yet really clever at the same time, love it, kudos.
God I feel this heavy, I'm not playing at the moment but I had so many idea's of what I wanted to do. The only thing I successfully did was make and sell T2 Projectile Guns (Arty's and Autocannnon's) in Hek and Rens but it was something I did want to do. Was it the maximum way to achieve profit? no, but I wanted to buy and sell weapons to a trade hub that I used more often than not (Hek and Rens) and I was personally tired of those guns not being available when I flew minmatar ships! Now I have this idea that I want to do in my head, but it will require others to do it. With the experiences I've had in game and meeting the different people I've met, so many people are too scared to just do shit its so annoying. Maybe I will one day do the other thing I want to do in EVE but right now I'm just not sure. The developers even release tools like the fleet finder and other things that allow for the PLAYERS to do there own thing, but players are too scared to use it because of spy's or other things.
I left EVE for exactly the same reasons you left for that year. I have four accounts. One super cap pilot, one Rorqual pilot and two maxed hulk mining alts. The only time I was allowed to take my carriers out was for ratting and the only time I was allowed to take my Rorqual was that on specified times with an alliance fleet. I just got so sick of it that I quit and I'm just now thinking about playing again
If you buy a ship in eve then the moment you bought it you have to say goodbye to it and treat it as if your money is already gone then the game will be much more fun. with a freighter through 0.0 in which there is no intel over 10+ jumps and a scout forward and one backward and you're full of moon ore is fun. Wasn't even my freighter but I didn't care I would have just bought a new one
i used to ply like everone else i burnt out took a 5 year break came back during covid and played it like a game instead of a job and i love it still and its not that bad it took me longer to progress cuz of losses but i enjoy myself. one thing ive found confronting meta players and not playing like they expect turns their brains and iv won more than lost latley because of that
I'm currently in this stage but I also have been playing close to one month or so, to me it would be pretty detrimental to lose a ship worth more than over 200M ISK or so since I know I can naturally farm up to 200M isk with what I'm currently doing. Mostly what I see is I get bogged down by what skills I have and thats the main reason I can't fly the ships I want to fly lol I think by then I might have enough ISK to not care about what I lose! Really good insight though!
I enjoyed the manufacturing aspect, did that for 5 years and it was great to WH explore with Cheetahs, never worried about all the times I blew up, cause I could make my own ships and components. Desire to play comes and goes, but I can't do anything unless I sub which is disappointing.
As someone who started mining and Industry I spent most of my time in high sec but once my alliance set up in Low sec my Tactics changed quite a bit from me mining just to make money to me being a trojan horse and deceiving neutrals looking for easy kills in thinking I'm a defenceless miner to be the actual Hunter
Ya that mindset is what made me leave null for wh space. I remember being told that if I’m not in comms and in 3 different intel channels, didn’t have the alliance approved fit etc etc that nobody would even bother trying to save you. Basically, they expected you to dock up if non blues were 5 jumps from you All I did in null was station spin Lame
I feel that with scarcity patch they made this feeling worse. That no in game margins of isk gain could cover enough that people held on to their stuff like gold. The game is built for loss on the player at a greater rate now more than ever to inflate these feeling.
out of all the groups I flew with brave was literally Brave they had a few people that got upset when you use really expensive shit but most people didn't care as long as you kept things classy and had a good time you were able to get away with mostly whatever you wanted to do the only reason why people have a problem with people losing super valuable stuff as more people to come by hunting for valuable stuff if they don't think your risk of verse people usually get upset if you go out and die cuz it makes the group look bad I personally could care less have a good time be risky but be smart cuz if you lose something super valuable it makes more people come by and hunting for valuable stuff which makes the area more dangerous that's why a lot of people discourage people from using very valuable stuff
the difference is between risk averse/avoiding every danger and calculating a risk and avoiding high risk. flying around in your expensive ship? risky but could be very rewarding. Flying around your expensive ship in hostile space without backup plan? high risk with low reward. dont go mining in areas where you expect regular gank fleets to come through. Dont go scanning in high pvp systems. etc. just dont get frozen in place by your fear.
Been playing eve for a long time never really knew this fear. I always fly my ships I just do as much risk management as I can. There's no way I'd fly my bling vargur gate to gate in null I'd use wormholes. If I move around my Loki it's cloaky fit. Vargurs for 10/10 complexes I can use a mach or something cheap for sanctums.
I remember back when i was playing, before the rouque was a thing, wormhole miner, formed a corp from people i met in the starter area and went big, mined ice and gas no problem, i met theae paranoid people your talking about, but never hung out with them and learned from them, i learned how to fit ships with my newb buddies and we just grinded rocks. I never lost a barge with all the risks i took, even with CODE roaming highsec, if we wanted to do something we did it or at least tried
@@JAKEL33T they dont pay attention and take responsibility for failure, my guess i learned how to avoid pvp prety well for a newb with no older guys training me
@@JAKEL33T Back in the day you could add someone to a watch list and get an alert when they got online. this combined with locator agents allowed someone to litterally stalk you across the game and greif. Had a guy just continuously killing me for months when I started the game. I'm glad that's not a thing anymore, but ganking used to be /really/ bad. When it takes 20-50 hours of mining to replace a barge, and a guy will litterally kill you within 5 minutes of starting to mine, yeah, it's going to suck. I'm glad you never had to go through that, but you get unlucky and some assholes sole goal is to make life suck, eve gives them plenty of tools to do that. It sounds like you got exceedingly lucky in my opinion, and now you are in null, which is arguably a lot safer. The more paranoid mindset doesn't just come out of nowhere.
All of the paranoia and fear could be minimized if the Eve developers would permit significant defenses for non-combat ships. Eve has never had defensible mining ships. Ever. The way to fix any societal problem is to adjust the costs and benefits, fixing the motivations involved. Eve isn't interested in that. It's a ganker and griefer paradise and always will be.
People in combat ships have the same issue. They are also afraid to lose their ships. Even if its not isk value, they are afraid of their reputation. The only thing that more defense does is for the enemy to bring more ships.
This comment is disingenuous. The battle Orca is a thing, people use haulers like a super tanked Sigil as bait, etc. And what justification is there for a "non-combat" ship to defend itself? It's non-combat. That's like saying a passenger plane should be able to defend itself from a jet fighter. Or a semi-truck should be able to defend itself from a tank. You defend non-combat ships by using other tools at your disposal such as d-scan, scouts, friends, etc. It's been like that for nearly 2 decades and has worked out just fine.
I feel as though losing ships is often how you learn though. When I first started playing I would often haul things through Ahbazon, somehow getting lucky and going when the system was clear. Lost some expensive cargo and learned that just because something was safe before doesn't mean it's safe 5 minutes later. Started hauling through other routes and got hit in HS, learned that HS is often more dangerous then LS and some haulers was not worth using just because it could haul more if you was hauling expensive stuff. Losing ships while WH exploring taught how to make a better overview and how to use dscan better. Etcetera etcetera Those lessons have carried on with me till now and it's very rare that I lose ships now a days unless I intentionally go out for pvp. As long as you know what you're doing it's not hard to avoid losing your ship. I regularly do L4s in a marauder in a system gankers regularly make a stop at and have never lost a ship to them, but it's because of me losing ships that I know how to avoid traps, baits, and gankers. Losing ships is a learning experience That being said I think it's just the people you happen to be around because it's rare for me to see anyone be like that in my corp or with the people I play with. Maybe you need to make some friends with incursion runners?
Hey great video man! I'm in the same boat as you, Corp doesn't want me flying the Rourq all willy nilly, if we lose a Rourq it makes us look bad. Wtf lol. I'd like to join your Corp man I'm a Rourq pilot also.
I've just started playing Eve as I have a friend who lives elsewhere and it's a good way to spend a bit of time, he has played Eve before and has a crazy ship, way ahead of me, this is an amazing game but I appreciate this video as yeh I just want to have some fun, I don't really want to be shackled to a corp and play real life in a game, I want a free adventure and see what I learn, again this game is off the scale complex I don't really thing I can dedicate my life to it though I am spending quite a bit of time atm learning the basics and fun and interesting ways of making a few Isk, I don't really want to pay Omega as really it's not worth it for me and eh War Thunder is free!!! ;D
It blows my mind evey time I'm in my rorqual and the Intel dings of a neutral or red in next system so I dock up till there gone lol. Fear of loosing it gives me a little buzz next time I might just sit there sit what happens
I have a similar story as yours. Same with you with the Rorqs but with Mackinaws, I really like Mackinaws. God, I literally was not allowed to undock it, cause it is a blingy kill. I eventually did, saying flunk it to any reprecursions, and same day and on the same field with other 1 rorq and 1 orca(notice the hypocrisy?) , There was a huge drop. I was the only one whom escaped with the ship intact, and not long after, I dropped that corp/alliance. Avoid the veterans of this game, they are annoying at best, and damn right toxic in general, killing the game enjoyment
Im Kind of a new Player and here is my two Cents, After 2 months as someone who usually plays competetive games I started exploring because of isk, as of rn I ve made around 45b in total doing so and used most of it to buy sp so I can sit in ma loki I died a few Times exploring in null, but as of right now I havent died in the past 3 weeks exploring, because it's literally impossible to die if you know what you are doing And while that seems good, It also Shows major issues with eve. As far as I ve noticed, around 90-95% of pvp happens at Gates or with bubble, because there is almost no way of actually getting into a fight unless someone is afk ratting/mining If a fight starts, people instantly overkill. I had a fleet with 3 other guys from my Corp (we had 4 cruiser) and they dropped 9 battleships after the tackle People are so afraid of losing ships they wont even undocl unless they know they win, which in null with their entire Corp behind them is most likely. IF you somehow manage to get close to winning a fight they ll just call reinforcements until they have won. It's the most brain dead kind of pvp concept I ve ever seen tbh. Imo, remove local, so no one has Intel, remove alt Accounts because it's unfair and also removes a gigantic Part of the game (for example sec Status in Low is just a Fancy number, if you wanna trade make alt, lol cool) Get rid of zkill, so other people know which ships you fly, make combat more versitel so a ship doesnt 100% counter a different ship Remove warp, shrink Systems so you have to travel manually which would allow you to be actually get ganked
You can always go to wormhole space. Most of those things are in there. People work days, sometimes months to get some ships. There is no point in using them if your not 95% sure your not going to loose them to a non local system were a dozen gankers could of gotten in. There are ways to catch people but you need to be smart about it and use tactics.
@@artificialintelligence143 people use eye alts in wormhole on every hole. they could for exmaaple reduce nullsec intel to a limited range instead of a precise number. eg show 1-10 11-30 31-100 in local. would increase the solo potential by alot, and still give null corps intel about bigger fleets.
Abyssal is so popular cause the reward meets or exceeds the risk you put in. It's a great example of excellent content that CCP added. Sadly CCP hasn't been able to provide more content like it.
lol i used to run myrm shit fits just to see if it worked. i have lost a few orcas never a rorq yet tho a few regular freighters as well. if you can afford to replace it then fly it. if not dont. simple as that. make that isk for fun.
U know what was my first lesson in eve back in 2005?Dont fly something u cant afford to loose ....cânt play more than 1 h this days,but still eve is best game....pewpewwwww
As far as I'm concerned, If i lose something i lose it, yeah it sucks but i bought it so i could use it. If i got into such a run of bad luck that i lost everything and had to start from 0, then I guess I' d just sell some PLEX or other non-ship assets and start over (even if i had to open my wallet to do so). I have had to spend real money to stabilize my account after a big loss before and go dark for a while on risky activities. But I just consider it a fair price to pay for some fun. I've spent more on League of Legends than EVE and that game is free-to-play. I took my shiny new Proteus out to do some WH ratting and got bonked by a fleet of three Tengus on my second trip out, due to my own inefficiency at the time id only paid for about 1/4 of the fit. It sucked and I worked for like a month to regain the money (I didn't follow the don't undock what you cant afford rule), but it taught me to be better and it only cost me time in the end. EVE's meant to be experienced, not run from in terror of shadows.
I have seen and heard exactly what you explain here. I had the same thing about not undocking because of the risk. I got a Rorque and undocked it once. I ended up leaving Null . Because of this. If you know of a decent corp, with a positive helpful attitude then let me know lol. Maybe I will give it another go. 😀
I if I were to go to low sec or null with my orca and loose it, my only way back to an orca would be to buy plex. The only time I made some "big ISK" was being in a null corp and moon mining. but even then it was getting one of the old players to buy it and transport to jita. I hated being in a null alliance and the constant roams and feeding the ship destruction machine.
Don't know if it's very different now compared to when i played, but as soon as joined 0 sec empire , my losses where replaced and i racked up billions very fast Delve is a very nice region i can assure. Perhaps that i went into alliance leadership and the power to give access or take it away (but that was in omist/impass region helped a bit as well ;-)
@@randar1969 oh it's still the same. But if you don't have skills for doctrine ships, you need isk. You login and there is a cta, can't mine. Ceases to be fun. Always doing what the alliance wants.
@@mharveyathome True that lol. I've yet to lose anything that expensive but do have d-scan on a footpedal. It's been working so far but I'm sure it'll happen sooner or later.
I've lost billions off of some really stupid mistakes. Afking on trig gates for too long, approaching an enemy frig with a shuttle instead of warping, etc. It is what it is lol.
I remember my first carirer Everyone told me not to undock it cause I would loose it. I was like nope I will not live in fear 10 minutes later I was in a pod trying to figure out where the fleet of 100 nutes came from
I’ve had a lot less strange issues since I went solo. Ironically I don’t lose ships or have surprise fleets when I operate alone. Spy’s are real and I’ve known people to leak info for isk on fellow corp mates and blues so..
@@JAKEL33T The weird thing is...I am a miner and I rather enjoy playing prey. I don't mind it at all. I find it rather exciteing. Espically when I survive a gank attempt in highsec or just slip away form roaming gangs in null. Been playing since 2016 as a miner only. That carrier was the first time I ever tired something other than mining. Have not tried anythig since then.
I know! I was with a group. Alliance friend of a friend said lets go on a low security roam. I said cool. I will bring my PVP Harby. NO Nope no no no! Here you will fly this FLYCATCHER!! We provide the ship. We engaged and frankly this Praxis pilot who is great PVP player out foxed me! He got me. I got Torched by the FC. He litterly said to me. What the fuck happen. I had enough. I said I lost a ship. He kept berating me and showed everyone how bad a PVP pilot I am and I NEED to pay the cost of the FLYCATCHER plus 50% ! Just to make peace I sent him 100 Million! I thought it was over. His ass was still running me down in discord a MONTH later! Gee when the CTA came in. I said fuck it! I logged off and played OOTP 22 BASEBALL!!!! I now will only fly Specter Fleet. Talk about draining fun from EVE!!
I agree with everything you have said here I think it would be sweet to blow something up with a titan not to own a titan but to use it who cares if you own one you need to blap something with it
I use to play EVE-O/L back before 2012 - seems things have gotten WORSE - It seemed the technology & Training had a BACKWARDS value. That is to say to fly something better required you to train way too long to get an advantage in total investment versus total profit - it seemed to me it was more intelligent to fly Tech 1 and not be too afraid to fly it - Lose some T2 WunderShip and you will cry when you lose it. So of course you dont USE it. Psychotic proposition!! - In the R/W higher Tech with deeper training yields exponential profitability per ISK (erm USD) spent for this. EO is the opposite!!!! I suppose the reason I DID playe EVE Online so long was that is was BEAUTIFUL to be in. Just staring at a lucid space berg with multi-colored flash of energy sizzling in space (wait i thought there was no sound in outer space) WOULD etch into you eyes and ears deep into your hind brain. Even now just a few minute of watching you do it reminds me.
Love this attitude. I've been with Eve forever, and the complaining never stops. People leaving never stops. This year they increase the cost for the first time in FOREVER and everyone freakes out. Just another good clensing of people that just see the game as a profit mechanism instead of a game. I am some risk averse, but I'm willing to use my Orca and never pay stupid fees that some corp thinks it should get. I can earn 1B in the market from nothing if need be, just takes time. I'm glad you have a willingness to get out there and play!
Risk aversion is a consequence of low reward for high risk. If there is little to no incentive to do something with high risk no one except adrenaline junkies and masochists would even bother.
@George Costanza I like, don't give a fuck. I mean no shit Sherlock, this video is an opinion, your preference is an opinion. If you're going to comment at least don't waste our time by pointing out the obvious.
Inflation in EVE has utterly destroyed content in this game. It's not risk I'm adverse to. It's more a matter of "How much bullshit am I going to have to swallow, to replace this loss after I do something FUN?" There's little reason in dragging out a blinged BC fit, if I'm going to have to mindlessly grind my face off for X number of days/weeks to pay for another. Was NOTHING like this when I was in null 3-4 years ago. It's simply gotten too damned expensive.
You mention paranoia. Another corp mate and I were mining Gneiss in a 0.4 anomaly in Ventures today. We had a Praxis watching our back. A 4th person pops on local, Praxis runs and docks. We keep mining. I message the Praxis "Dude, I have a base here. That guy is a gas miner. He's 5.0 sec status and hasn't had a PVP kill in 5 years. Come take care of these Serpentis. Check the intel." Mind you I have been playing EVE less than a month as type this. I have $500m in the bank. Corp mates are billionaires. I have 10 Ventures to replace this thing. When I go Omega I will have 10 mining barges spread out in different systems. (Shrug) Ships are gonna get blown up. Don't be stupid, but don't be paranoid. Take the risk or else be poor.
I'm fairly new to EVE, but what's the point of earning ISK just to never use the ships you buy with it. I'm trying to have fun playing the game bro, I'll take an L here or there
I go thru this same cycle so many times with eve...sit there brainstorming on ways how to make isk, but for what? what do I want ht eisk for... I have all the caps and mods ill ever needs, and I never use them because to me its just stressful putting that much on the line... its the bittersweet reason why eve is so enjoyable and stressful, because there is a feeling of realworld value tied into the ships you put on the line... I think without that aspect this game would become pretty boring, but its also what makes the game boring..
I'm risk averse myself but the corps and alliances of miners are totally scared mice with a complete lack of initiative. Wouldn't join one again. Ever! Oh and if they do pvp it's really only team dock sniping on Jita the suspects. And they call that content 😒 Mine & Camp Forever is not working for me.
I always felt that being able to replace your losses relatively easily made the risk-aversion fade away. Making everything more tedious and expensive to build and buy in the game will cause a downward trend in content, not the other way around.
Well made point. Perspective and context matters. My Strategy for risk is - 'come and get me, while you are failing to kill me you are not killing off some noob or delicate petal that may quit. I can take take it and everything is replaceable when i make mistakes that give you a rare victory'. 'I will actively frustrate you to the point that you cannot face your continued failure'. It's way more fun to be the rabbit than the fox.
@@JAKEL33T Hope you have found a good home with people you enjoy playing with :D if not hit me up, Im always down to try and make the game better for anyone who wants it :D
There are literally thousands of players that just grab a ship and start roaming, every day/night. I have no idea what you're talking about with all this "paranoia". Now, in the limited context of a purely mining/industrial corp, that's an entirely different matter. When you're in a corp, you don't play for yourself. You clearly have a very self centric vision of the game, and that's fine, but I mean if you like risk why joining a mining corp in the first place? Here's how a mining corp thinks: there are people out there that are craving for content. Unless you're a PvP corp, whose goal is to find content (or provide it to other PvP corps, ehm), content starvation is your best defence. By that I mean, create the most content devoid region of space in Eve. PvPers should consider your space (whether it's "yours" or just happens to be the HS corner you operate in doesn't matter) boring as hell, so that they'll avoid it. It's not paranoia, it's just basic strategy. The problem is never "loosing a ship". The problem is provinding content. It's a corp / sector problem, expecially in HS. In HS you can't defend yourself, fullstop. "Be elsewhere" is your only line of defence. So ideally you want to operate in a corp w no recent losses in a system with no recent losses. This way, gankers are elsewhere. As a mining corp you always operate with a target painted on your ships, the only thing you can do is make it as small as possible. Every time a ship is ganked in your system, the target on every ship there becomes larger. Ever time one corp mate of your gets ganked, the target on all ships of the corp gets larger. In your case, the problem is that you operate in a corp. Go solo and mine in a rorqual. That doesn't work? Well you can't have a cake and eat it. You can't love the risk, and expect all your corpmates take the toll for that love of yours. Then again, just find a pvp corp. Mining corps probably represent less than 10% of the gameplay in Eve. In short, don't join a corp if their playstyle doesn't suit you. Don't criticize your corpmates for doing the right thing, only because you don't like it. Don't critizing them for wanting YOU to do the right thing, so that THEY don't pay the price.
EVE was sold in 2018. You don't sell when your company is doing well. The new buyer is making as much as they can until the company just fades away. They don't care anymore what you think. Check out Star Citizen TODAY!
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Best thought at 8:02 :
"...when you buy a ship... you're either going to buy an ornament, or you're going to pay for an experience."
Best simplefaction of the entire lose-your-ship-forever issue I've ever heard or read.
Enjoyed your thoughts & reflections, and hearing that you finally started hsving fun once you broke through 'the fear barrier.'
'Everything you've ever wanted is on the other side of your fear.'
literaly where i paused to come comment, dead on
Inflation has made replacing losses SO hard, SO time consuming that really drives the risk aversion.
Playing Eve became more expensive. Paying for game and in-game assets. Thats why ppl tend to be more carefull than years ago. I've never seen so many T1 frigs and cruisers ;-)
@@Agnus78
Scarcity did not make things better; it made less people play and people play less. Now Eve Omega is the most expensive MMO subscription price to be had; why should ppl fork over even more money just to 'get ahead'? Before Alpha-Omega everybody's subscription got paid for by someone. Now the economy has been thrown into chaos because that balance has been destroyed.
Eve was pay-to-play; it's become pay-to-progress.
The corp I'm in encourages everyone to go out and have fun. Do what YOU want. If YOU get blown up, then learn from Your mistakes. In the end EVE is just a video game. You win, You loose. Keep playing and keep learning.
Sounds like a good corp. the worst corps are those who flame losses on zkill
As a player from the beginning of EVE we all have our stories. and from first hand experience being betrayed is still the most painful thing that can happen. it's a hard game that is what makes It compelling.
Fear is the mind killer and EVE resembles life and fear effects people in the real world the same way. It prevents experience thus it prevent growing and learning.
I passed in abeyamce but your Dune reference was EXACTLY what I was thinking too. H8 to be Thufir and MISCALCULATE what some Pirate Corp is willing to do to mine our shining Tears.....
Saraf 01 - Well made point which I agree with. I just wanted to add that fear is also a natural function for life to compel behaviours. It can be a tool if one chooses. A tool for good and bad. Fear is ever present in me and I have learnt to use it constructively.
To start off, I was in PF not too long ago and I started off with a Rorq and 2 barges. Then had one of my barges graduate to a Rorq. I wasn’t around when Rorq’s were at their prime but I really enjoyed having my Rorqs out moon mining.
I agree that the risk adverse mindset is a crutch. However, the ROI needs to be there in order to make that investment worth it. Having 20+ billion worth of assets on the field isn’t always worth it and those are the times that you have to make a decision on how you want to handle your stuff. The industry changes and what not have not helped with that. In my opinion, I wasn’t scared to field my toys, I just paid attention to the environment to get a feel of when I should use them and when it wasn’t worth the risk. I wish I would have recored it, but I ended up getting tackled by a hunter working with Pando. He ended up tackling a super too so we were able to fight the tackle off of us. Then I was tackled by a bomber fleet and ended up living through that giving my response fleet plenty of time to get there.
Industry guys tend to be more careful with their stuff because we know what it takes to make it. At least these are my views. I understand being excited to finally use it. Once that wears off though you open your eyes to making smart decisions on what you are willing to risk.
I completely agree, it is possible to survive you just have to be smart.
Something I do now if I don’t want to siege is I drag mine with trailing hulks then bring in a bare orca to warp in deploy for a cycle so the rorq can compress. Then warp the orca off.
I spend most of time in low sec flying faction warfare and I go exploring everywhere in New Eden. I think null sec is the safest area in Eve and having the protection blanket of system control by large corps/alliances breeds the paranoia
I think the issue is that people don't gradually build up the risk. Start in easier environments or in fleets before you're ready to do more risky endeavors.
Great topic, I see this paranoia everywhere and had it myself for many years. I really wanted to blitz lvl 5s for the longest time. I was told doing lvl 5s is suicide and that pirates will immediately gank me and the setup is too expensive and it's not worth it and on and on. I ignored that because I knew they made a lot of isk and basically spent months, years even, trying to figure it out. I'm happy to say I've been doing them for five years now and never lost a Thanatos and make more isk than I know what to do with. Don't listen to the FUD. I wouldn't be where I'm at now if I listened to the people grinding lvl 4s in Marauders pre-buff.
Love your attitude, I agree with you one hundred percent have fun isn't that what games are supposed to be for.
Yessss! I agree completely with this attitude towards risk. I loved being in a large nullsec alliance for a bit until I started getting nagged at for flying capital ships. I get that they are all worried about killboards and attracting enemies to the area but surely this is content and good for everyone. I should be able to choose to risk whatever I want.
I get the whole fear of undocking, or rushing to the station at the first sign of trouble. I used to feel that too at the beginning. Now I “daily” fly a cloaky 1.5 billion Tengu into low sec, null, WH without fear and also make about 10x to 20x that with it before I do something dumb and get blowed up. Also, those once in a while trips into hi sec or jita is so weird.
I love my tengu, great investment
I remember when corps started giving people shit for losing there on property that they owned and not Corp owned, because it showed on the kill boards.
Holyshit, earned enough for 3 fully equipped carriers before losing one? Loses don't matter as long as you are out producing the other guy.
It's been like that forever for pvp corps when kbs became a thing. The risk aversion trickles heavily into pvp where people don't want to fly anything worth too much because it'll mess up their kb stats. The real Chads are the ones that have the balls to go out there in an expensive fit and pick fights they know they might lose.
It just depends on what area and alliance you are in. I was in an area where we was risk adverse to a certain extent. Because why lose rouqes for no good reason. But we would also set baits and traps to wreck fleets using them too.
This a real thing, and does ruin Eve for a lot of people, always feeling the prey and just hiding away. But as a PVE runner the game has designed you to be the prey. Your fit for PVE won’t allow you to fight back. Your activity will carry that risk of being caught (that 1 rat that seems to scram you as neuts come in system etc).
You should Always use your assets in Eve how you want to however.
The problem is “just not caring” isn’t really an option for most people. That ship cost Isk (your time in game or your money in RL). So just buying another Rorq when you lose it isn’t viable game play option. You’ll spend too much time grinding for things you can lose in minutes or spend too much RL money long run? High chances as well you won’t lose your ship in a way that was fair or even odds of winning the fight.
There’s a reason they call them Bitter Old Vets 😁
yah, i know plenty of people that quit the game because they lost a jump freighter or rorqual....its just too time consuming and soul destroying to replace what you lose... the pvp roaming gangs often fly about in throw away cheap ships, while your'e stuck inplace in siege in a 3-4 million+isk rorq...and then they continually nerf the big indsustry ships, because the pvp'ers keep whining that their cheap ship can't kill an expensive ship...the balance in this game is a joke..
I feel ya on this. They would tell me if i got caught and died, they would come for more targets later. Thats why i spend so much time solo. Haven't played in a while.
I play mostly solo as well, I try and stay away from drama as much as I can.
the games toxic devlopment and community over the last 12 years have created the 2 precious to undock/cant afford to replace mentality. 10 years ago that was rare. stuff was cheap and replaceable. Now shit that should be 1bn tops costs 10bn, and the income streams are 1/20th what they use to be 10 years ago. so Less income + insanely high prices = fear of loss mentality. This is mostly CCPs fault too.
I agree with you 200%... If you're "too paranoid and afraid" of even undocking and experiencing the game for what it truly has to offer, then you need to close down and shutter or sell your accounts and move onto something that won't leave you "steeped and frozen in Fear" it's a total WASTE of your life and efforts to be that way and it just makes me furious to think that players would give that kind of Agency over their selves to trolls and gankers who find it hilarious that they can bully freely with no repercussions or blowback. I spend Iskies to have experiences and who cares if assets get destroyed in the process? That's a part of the experience of EVE!
Hah! I got my Venture destroyed by a Catalyst on my 2nd day playing. I dealt with it by learning how to use D-scan. I've lost two Retrievers since then, one in LoSec, and one in WH space. The first one taught me that people can reship, and warp right to the bookmark they set in their Venture. The second experience taught me about cloaked ships. I bought 5 more Retrievers and modules, and went right back at it, but I only fly Ventures in LoSec and through wormholes so far.
I really enjoy being the "vigilant mouse", and depriving would-be gankers of a kill. Especially when it costs them time.
Feel this, and had my corp and alliance corps chew me out for a lost orca. In the end you learn and I totally think you got it!! fly how and what you want to!!
Thank you for sharing. This is a refreshing and healthy attitude toward the game.
To add to the paranoia point, a place or player with a lot of losses on zkillboard could attract pvpers looking for kills. I could see the risk aversion being a tactical concern but taken to an extreme.
Other than that, I think there is a lot of insecurity in Eve players. There's so much exaggeration about how everyone can afk billions of isk per hour ratting or they made 10 billion isk station trading as an alpha in their first week of playing.
Players fly "cheap" T3 Cruisers that they say they can replace in an hour tops but in reality it probably took them far longer, or PLEX, to save up that amount of isk. Any loss shatters that illusion and there's a ton of shame that comes with not being able to live up to that unrealistic standard.
Maybe isk really was that trivial to make during the Rorqual era but it seems to be more difficult now.
Honestly, I think there are two factors to it - for one, ISK was more trivial to make during the Rorqual era, yes, but for two, materials where far more readily available - meaning things where plainly *cheaper*
Brother I recently returned to EVE and I can't agree more. I have this very sentiment, lately, as I observe people turtling up and not actually playing anymore. I dunno... idling endlessly in a station just doesn't seem like fun.
If you're that worried about losing ISK, maybe stop buying blingy stuff or something? I dunno. Love your take on this. Cheers
Thanks. Enjoyable and agree regarding the potential mindset. I had it!
This has been annoying me for many years, which is why I tended to play solo or with a small ad-hoc groups of people. My attitude is - I came here to play the game and have some fun, so the fun shall I have. Never cared about losses, had no problem buying a PLEX or two if it stood between me and my fun of the day. I didn't do anything really stupid, but I had to fear of losing everything. I lived solo (with a couple of alts of course) in a wormhole with a lowsec static for like 3 months - including running all logistics to and from WH, mining, ratting, doing PI, relic/data/sleeper sites, reactions, industry - pretty much everything I could possibly do there (except for Upwell structures as they were not a thing back then) - not so much to make ISK, but to just experience what it's like. I did end up making quite a bit of ISK and managed to move out without any losses, but that has never been a goal, and I had a lot of fun in there for sure.
Thanks for sharing, I appreciate your insights. Demonstrating a learning progression is a key factor for success with any endeavor.
Remember playing chasey or tag at school? Everyone wants to be chased and no one wants to be "it".
There are many immature characters in Eve that have it around the wrong way and think they can get satisfaction from destroying yours. They are wrong.... It is much more fun to be the rabbit than the fox.
I am glad i play this game like a single player game and have no contact with anyone in the game. and playing this from 2010 and treating all players like they are the enemy.
I prefer solo play in most games, so I can relate.
I have a similar "issue" where I have my Mining Alt train to fly a thanatos, and now that I have a thanatos with T2 fitting, I still have to gather up my courage to undock the thanatos and do anything with it.
Finally a rational person! Personally I have always been using Hulks and Orca in wh...because they mine the biggest amount. Heard this MANY times: "In wormhole you should never use anything more expensive than Retriever". Like I care mate, it's slow..af.. So no thanks. Fast ships are there to make you faster, or in this case, mine faster :D Damn I'm dreaming of a Rorqual so bad and this video undoubtly revived my old dream. Just flying the big stuff is good. Freighters aswell. It's just awesome so them move (small boy inside).
Rational thinking, be smart, D-scan A LOT, safe spots and so on helps soooo much. The same thing goes for transportation... oh man, when I recently discovered how easy you can run through a gate camp with bubbles and all... in a deep space transporter?! I never in EVE felt more like trying again so find the limit to it. I would say the whole thing about tactics and patience really makes it feel good to run off when 10+ ships are ready to demolish your hauler that's way overloaded with way to expensive stuff and you just warp off without any trouble. Gotta love it even though your heart is racing 250bpm when you see red and yellow all over the overview.
Love your mindset.🤘
i'm with you, i've gotten to a point where i do play carefully with my big toys, but that's to earn isk to do stupid shit whenever i feel like it, it's been a liberation without equal to get out of the risk averse mindset.
I returned after years of not playing yesterday. I took a couple of billion in assets that I had left, loaded them up in my freighter and made the journey to my new home 34 jumps away.
I could of (maybe should of) split it up over multiple trips but it would of taken so much time and would just feel plain boring and like a job.
And in the end I made it, I saved a lot of time and I think time is the most valuable asset in EVE to me.
All that time I would of spent hauling back and forth can now be used to make more ISK and actually enjoy playing the game in the way that I want.
They need to remove the killboard.. If there is no wall of shame then you wouldn't be told not to take it out.
I've been a member of a hisec corp years ago and we've been mining in Heimatar and Metropolis very frequently (usually 20+ ppl with Orca and freighter). Ofcourse that ppl were a bit concerned about gankers but thats what good fits and intel is for. At some point we had squad of logis on belt and a Scorpion ship. Not sure if they would work as we've never really needed them but it was fun to sit in belt and mine, combat squad just flew around and fool. We chat and tell jokes or stories from RL.
We lost maybe one newbie Covetor but all gank attempts vs our Hulks and Procurers were unsuccesful. I know its a different story in lowsec or null but in the past Eve was fun becaouse everybody wanted to take a risk of undocking. Inflation and higher sub cost changes it, sadly.
Hell yeah Jake glad to hear you are having fun with it! Ya know - I struggle a lot with that sort of fear too. It's sinister because in reality you only pay attention when things affirm that fear, so it grows. I played eve a bit, got ganked, blown up, struggled with those mafia idiots too, never really had anyone to play with, and I was given a "skill plan" by each corp I joined, back when we had to pay per month, and they would just ignore me. Not use my toon for anything I was trained for. I had the bad experiences and quit, I don't remember a single good time in that game, just building for one that never came. Cheers dude - good luck out there!
Wow shit, sounds like you had rly bad luck with the corps, i only met one bad Corp in my whole eve career
I have met some real interesting people and have made some great friends that unto this day I still speak to since the very beginning of eve. Such an amazing game.
play in quite time zones, know your enemy. Look at Zkill see what people are ganking rorqs in and fit to counter their tactics. Are their other rorq pilots who have been tackled? did they live? what was their fit? Are you at war? who with? what do they gank large things in? Some pointers. Heavy neuts x1-2 are really op to stop tackle couple that with smart bombs vs sabre bubbles. It's ok to take agro and warp to a fortizar so the fortizar or other strucutre can be manned. neuting out tackle and using drones to slap them is viable. always have at least 1 cap injector preferably 2, and have emergency drugs for shield reps.
This was my strategy for a long time, nothing is more pleasing then nueting out a tackle or popping a bubble. More recently I’d put my alt in a bait rorq in a small POS within 14au of the gate so they saw it first and would tunnel vision scan for it while I dipped out.
@@JAKEL33T the Rourq in a POS within 14 AU is a very slick move to give you scramble time to deactivate the siege mod and cloak up/warp to safe.
It’s really obvious and yet really clever at the same time, love it, kudos.
God I feel this heavy, I'm not playing at the moment but I had so many idea's of what I wanted to do. The only thing I successfully did was make and sell T2 Projectile Guns (Arty's and Autocannnon's) in Hek and Rens but it was something I did want to do.
Was it the maximum way to achieve profit? no, but I wanted to buy and sell weapons to a trade hub that I used more often than not (Hek and Rens) and I was personally tired of those guns not being available when I flew minmatar ships!
Now I have this idea that I want to do in my head, but it will require others to do it. With the experiences I've had in game and meeting the different people I've met, so many people are too scared to just do shit its so annoying.
Maybe I will one day do the other thing I want to do in EVE but right now I'm just not sure. The developers even release tools like the fleet finder and other things that allow for the PLAYERS to do there own thing, but players are too scared to use it because of spy's or other things.
I left EVE for exactly the same reasons you left for that year. I have four accounts. One super cap pilot, one Rorqual pilot and two maxed hulk mining alts. The only time I was allowed to take my carriers out was for ratting and the only time I was allowed to take my Rorqual was that on specified times with an alliance fleet. I just got so sick of it that I quit and I'm just now thinking about playing again
I don't play Eve Online, but found so much wisdom here I started watching all your videos. (I play Eve Echoes thou)
I play Echoes some as well. :)
What really turned the corner for me was not thinking about net worth as the main goal or as a goal at all. ISK is just the means to an end.
Thx for the vid, i already knew this, but it didnt let me feel that bad about some losses (in pvp) i had, ill just continue to have fun
If you buy a ship in eve then the moment you bought it you have to say goodbye to it and treat it as if your money is already gone then the game will be much more fun.
with a freighter through 0.0 in which there is no intel over 10+ jumps and a scout forward and one backward and you're full of moon ore is fun. Wasn't even my freighter but I didn't care I would have just bought a new one
This is like gear fear in Tarkov. People would not use the good gear in fear of losing it. Once that fear goes away the game is so much more fun.
i used to ply like everone else i burnt out took a 5 year break came back during covid and played it like a game instead of a job and i love it still and its not that bad it took me longer to progress cuz of losses but i enjoy myself. one thing ive found confronting meta players and not playing like they expect turns their brains and iv won more than lost latley because of that
Yea, I used to be so concerned with my K:D ratio on the killboard that I wouldn't go out in null.
I'm currently in this stage but I also have been playing close to one month or so, to me it would be pretty detrimental to lose a ship worth more than over 200M ISK or so since I know I can naturally farm up to 200M isk with what I'm currently doing. Mostly what I see is I get bogged down by what skills I have and thats the main reason I can't fly the ships I want to fly lol I think by then I might have enough ISK to not care about what I lose! Really good insight though!
I enjoyed the manufacturing aspect, did that for 5 years and it was great to WH explore with Cheetahs, never worried about all the times I blew up, cause I could make my own ships and components. Desire to play comes and goes, but I can't do anything unless I sub which is disappointing.
As someone who started mining and Industry I spent most of my time in high sec but once my alliance set up in Low sec my Tactics changed quite a bit from me mining just to make money to me being a trojan horse and deceiving neutrals looking for easy kills in thinking I'm a defenceless miner to be the actual Hunter
Ya that mindset is what made me leave null for wh space. I remember being told that if I’m not in comms and in 3 different intel channels, didn’t have the alliance approved fit etc etc that nobody would even bother trying to save you. Basically, they expected you to dock up if non blues were 5 jumps from you
All I did in null was station spin
Lame
I feel that with scarcity patch they made this feeling worse. That no in game margins of isk gain could cover enough that people held on to their stuff like gold. The game is built for loss on the player at a greater rate now more than ever to inflate these feeling.
out of all the groups I flew with brave was literally Brave they had a few people that got upset when you use really expensive shit but most people didn't care as long as you kept things classy and had a good time you were able to get away with mostly whatever you wanted to do
the only reason why people have a problem with people losing super valuable stuff as more people to come by hunting for valuable stuff if they don't think your risk of verse people usually get upset if you go out and die cuz it makes the group look bad I personally could care less have a good time be risky but be smart
cuz if you lose something super valuable it makes more people come by and hunting for valuable stuff which makes the area more dangerous that's why a lot of people discourage people from using very valuable stuff
the difference is between risk averse/avoiding every danger and calculating a risk and avoiding high risk.
flying around in your expensive ship? risky but could be very rewarding.
Flying around your expensive ship in hostile space without backup plan? high risk with low reward.
dont go mining in areas where you expect regular gank fleets to come through.
Dont go scanning in high pvp systems.
etc.
just dont get frozen in place by your fear.
Been playing eve for a long time never really knew this fear. I always fly my ships I just do as much risk management as I can. There's no way I'd fly my bling vargur gate to gate in null I'd use wormholes. If I move around my Loki it's cloaky fit. Vargurs for 10/10 complexes I can use a mach or something cheap for sanctums.
I remember back when i was playing, before the rouque was a thing, wormhole miner, formed a corp from people i met in the starter area and went big, mined ice and gas no problem, i met theae paranoid people your talking about, but never hung out with them and learned from them, i learned how to fit ships with my newb buddies and we just grinded rocks. I never lost a barge with all the risks i took, even with CODE roaming highsec, if we wanted to do something we did it or at least tried
Yeah, I’ve never had issue either, make you wonder what people do (or don’t do) that they lose ships all the time.
@@JAKEL33T they dont pay attention and take responsibility for failure, my guess i learned how to avoid pvp prety well for a newb with no older guys training me
@@JAKEL33T Back in the day you could add someone to a watch list and get an alert when they got online. this combined with locator agents allowed someone to litterally stalk you across the game and greif. Had a guy just continuously killing me for months when I started the game. I'm glad that's not a thing anymore, but ganking used to be /really/ bad. When it takes 20-50 hours of mining to replace a barge, and a guy will litterally kill you within 5 minutes of starting to mine, yeah, it's going to suck. I'm glad you never had to go through that, but you get unlucky and some assholes sole goal is to make life suck, eve gives them plenty of tools to do that. It sounds like you got exceedingly lucky in my opinion, and now you are in null, which is arguably a lot safer. The more paranoid mindset doesn't just come out of nowhere.
All of the paranoia and fear could be minimized if the Eve developers would permit significant defenses for non-combat ships. Eve has never had defensible mining ships. Ever. The way to fix any societal problem is to adjust the costs and benefits, fixing the motivations involved. Eve isn't interested in that. It's a ganker and griefer paradise and always will be.
People in combat ships have the same issue. They are also afraid to lose their ships. Even if its not isk value, they are afraid of their reputation. The only thing that more defense does is for the enemy to bring more ships.
This comment is disingenuous. The battle Orca is a thing, people use haulers like a super tanked Sigil as bait, etc. And what justification is there for a "non-combat" ship to defend itself? It's non-combat. That's like saying a passenger plane should be able to defend itself from a jet fighter. Or a semi-truck should be able to defend itself from a tank.
You defend non-combat ships by using other tools at your disposal such as d-scan, scouts, friends, etc. It's been like that for nearly 2 decades and has worked out just fine.
I feel as though losing ships is often how you learn though. When I first started playing I would often haul things through Ahbazon, somehow getting lucky and going when the system was clear. Lost some expensive cargo and learned that just because something was safe before doesn't mean it's safe 5 minutes later. Started hauling through other routes and got hit in HS, learned that HS is often more dangerous then LS and some haulers was not worth using just because it could haul more if you was hauling expensive stuff. Losing ships while WH exploring taught how to make a better overview and how to use dscan better. Etcetera etcetera
Those lessons have carried on with me till now and it's very rare that I lose ships now a days unless I intentionally go out for pvp. As long as you know what you're doing it's not hard to avoid losing your ship. I regularly do L4s in a marauder in a system gankers regularly make a stop at and have never lost a ship to them, but it's because of me losing ships that I know how to avoid traps, baits, and gankers. Losing ships is a learning experience
That being said I think it's just the people you happen to be around because it's rare for me to see anyone be like that in my corp or with the people I play with. Maybe you need to make some friends with incursion runners?
I think I just ended up in the wrong side of Null for what I wanna do. I have goals & I hope to land someplace I can enjoy playing again.
Hey great video man! I'm in the same boat as you, Corp doesn't want me flying the Rourq all willy nilly, if we lose a Rourq it makes us look bad. Wtf lol. I'd like to join your Corp man I'm a Rourq pilot also.
I've just started playing Eve as I have a friend who lives elsewhere and it's a good way to spend a bit of time, he has played Eve before and has a crazy ship, way ahead of me, this is an amazing game but I appreciate this video as yeh I just want to have some fun, I don't really want to be shackled to a corp and play real life in a game, I want a free adventure and see what I learn, again this game is off the scale complex I don't really thing I can dedicate my life to it though I am spending quite a bit of time atm learning the basics and fun and interesting ways of making a few Isk, I don't really want to pay Omega as really it's not worth it for me and eh War Thunder is free!!! ;D
It blows my mind evey time I'm in my rorqual and the Intel dings of a neutral or red in next system so I dock up till there gone lol. Fear of loosing it gives me a little buzz next time I might just sit there sit what happens
I have a similar story as yours. Same with you with the Rorqs but with Mackinaws, I really like Mackinaws. God, I literally was not allowed to undock it, cause it is a blingy kill. I eventually did, saying flunk it to any reprecursions, and same day and on the same field with other 1 rorq and 1 orca(notice the hypocrisy?) , There was a huge drop. I was the only one whom escaped with the ship intact, and not long after, I dropped that corp/alliance. Avoid the veterans of this game, they are annoying at best, and damn right toxic in general, killing the game enjoyment
Im Kind of a new Player and here is my two Cents, After 2 months as someone who usually plays competetive games
I started exploring because of isk, as of rn I ve made around 45b in total doing so and used most of it to buy sp so I can sit in ma loki
I died a few Times exploring in null, but as of right now I havent died in the past 3 weeks exploring, because it's literally impossible to die if you know what you are doing
And while that seems good, It also Shows major issues with eve. As far as I ve noticed, around 90-95% of pvp happens at Gates or with bubble, because there is almost no way of actually getting into a fight unless someone is afk ratting/mining
If a fight starts, people instantly overkill. I had a fleet with 3 other guys from my Corp (we had 4 cruiser) and they dropped 9 battleships after the tackle
People are so afraid of losing ships they wont even undocl unless they know they win, which in null with their entire Corp behind them is most likely. IF you somehow manage to get close to winning a fight they ll just call reinforcements until they have won. It's the most brain dead kind of pvp concept I ve ever seen tbh.
Imo, remove local, so no one has Intel, remove alt Accounts because it's unfair and also removes a gigantic Part of the game (for example sec Status in Low is just a Fancy number, if you wanna trade make alt, lol cool)
Get rid of zkill, so other people know which ships you fly, make combat more versitel so a ship doesnt 100% counter a different ship
Remove warp, shrink Systems so you have to travel manually which would allow you to be actually get ganked
You can always go to wormhole space. Most of those things are in there.
People work days, sometimes months to get some ships. There is no point in using them if your not 95% sure your not going to loose them to a non local system were a dozen gankers could of gotten in.
There are ways to catch people but you need to be smart about it and use tactics.
@@artificialintelligence143 people use eye alts in wormhole on every hole.
they could for exmaaple reduce nullsec intel to a limited range instead of a precise number. eg show 1-10 11-30 31-100 in local. would increase the solo potential by alot, and still give null corps intel about bigger fleets.
Good video, totally agree.
I like your attitude.
Abyssal is so popular cause the reward meets or exceeds the risk you put in. It's a great example of excellent content that CCP added. Sadly CCP hasn't been able to provide more content like it.
lol i used to run myrm shit fits just to see if it worked. i have lost a few orcas never a rorq yet tho a few regular freighters as well. if you can afford to replace it then fly it. if not dont. simple as that. make that isk for fun.
U know what was my first lesson in eve back in 2005?Dont fly something u cant afford to loose ....cânt play more than 1 h this days,but still eve is best game....pewpewwwww
their kill board means everything and i cant get behind that.. if i take my roq out and get jump so be it buddy
As far as I'm concerned, If i lose something i lose it, yeah it sucks but i bought it so i could use it.
If i got into such a run of bad luck that i lost everything and had to start from 0, then I guess I' d just sell some PLEX or other non-ship assets and start over (even if i had to open my wallet to do so).
I have had to spend real money to stabilize my account after a big loss before and go dark for a while on risky activities. But I just consider it a fair price to pay for some fun.
I've spent more on League of Legends than EVE and that game is free-to-play.
I took my shiny new Proteus out to do some WH ratting and got bonked by a fleet of three Tengus on my second trip out, due to my own inefficiency at the time id only paid for about 1/4 of the fit.
It sucked and I worked for like a month to regain the money (I didn't follow the don't undock what you cant afford rule), but it taught me to be better and it only cost me time in the end.
EVE's meant to be experienced, not run from in terror of shadows.
I have seen and heard exactly what you explain here. I had the same thing about not undocking because of the risk. I got a Rorque and undocked it once. I ended up leaving Null . Because of this. If you know of a decent corp, with a positive helpful attitude then let me know lol. Maybe I will give it another go. 😀
I if I were to go to low sec or null with my orca and loose it, my only way back to an orca would be to buy plex. The only time I made some "big ISK" was being in a null corp and moon mining. but even then it was getting one of the old players to buy it and transport to jita. I hated being in a null alliance and the constant roams and feeding the ship destruction machine.
Don't know if it's very different now compared to when i played, but as soon as joined 0 sec empire , my losses where replaced and i racked up billions very fast Delve is a very nice region i can assure. Perhaps that i went into alliance leadership and the power to give access or take it away (but that was in omist/impass region helped a bit as well ;-)
@@randar1969 oh it's still the same. But if you don't have skills for doctrine ships, you need isk. You login and there is a cta, can't mine. Ceases to be fun. Always doing what the alliance wants.
Without the ship destruction machine who would you sell your ore to? The whole economy is propped up by destruction.
@@sbssmachine1 so true. But I don't want to buy an orca for over a billion to replace. Lol.
@@mharveyathome True that lol. I've yet to lose anything that expensive but do have d-scan on a footpedal. It's been working so far but I'm sure it'll happen sooner or later.
My motto in this game is: Trust no one, befriend no one.
I've lost billions off of some really stupid mistakes. Afking on trig gates for too long, approaching an enemy frig with a shuttle instead of warping, etc. It is what it is lol.
I remember my first carirer
Everyone told me not to undock it cause I would loose it.
I was like nope I will not live in fear
10 minutes later I was in a pod trying to figure out where the fleet of 100 nutes came from
I’ve had a lot less strange issues since I went solo. Ironically I don’t lose ships or have surprise fleets when I operate alone. Spy’s are real and I’ve known people to leak info for isk on fellow corp mates and blues so..
@@JAKEL33T The weird thing is...I am a miner and I rather enjoy playing prey. I don't mind it at all. I find it rather exciteing. Espically when I survive a gank attempt in highsec or just slip away form roaming gangs in null.
Been playing since 2016 as a miner only. That carrier was the first time I ever tired something other than mining. Have not tried anythig since then.
i realised you use ,,you know'' and ,,it's like'' in every other sentence and its funny af to me XD
I know! I was with a group. Alliance friend of a friend said lets go on a low security roam. I said cool. I will bring my PVP Harby. NO Nope no no no! Here you will fly this FLYCATCHER!! We provide the ship. We engaged and frankly this Praxis pilot who is great PVP player out foxed me! He got me. I got Torched by the FC. He litterly said to me. What the fuck happen. I had enough. I said I lost a ship. He kept berating me and showed everyone how bad a PVP pilot I am and I NEED to pay the cost of the FLYCATCHER plus 50% ! Just to make peace I sent him 100 Million! I thought it was over. His ass was still running me down in discord a MONTH later! Gee when the CTA came in. I said fuck it! I logged off and played OOTP 22 BASEBALL!!!! I now will only fly Specter Fleet. Talk about draining fun from EVE!!
I agree with everything you have said here I think it would be sweet to blow something up with a titan not to own a titan but to use it who cares if you own one you need to blap something with it
I use to play EVE-O/L back before 2012 - seems things have gotten WORSE - It seemed the technology & Training had a BACKWARDS value. That is to say to fly something better required you to train way too long to get an advantage in total investment versus total profit - it seemed to me it was more intelligent to fly Tech 1 and not be too afraid to fly it - Lose some T2 WunderShip and you will cry when you lose it. So of course you dont USE it. Psychotic proposition!! - In the R/W higher Tech with deeper training yields exponential profitability per ISK (erm USD) spent for this. EO is the opposite!!!! I suppose the reason I DID playe EVE Online so long was that is was BEAUTIFUL to be in. Just staring at a lucid space berg with multi-colored flash of energy sizzling in space (wait i thought there was no sound in outer space) WOULD etch into you eyes and ears deep into your hind brain. Even now just a few minute of watching you do it reminds me.
The game is full of "sad" players that worry too much. Its a bloody game at the end of the day.
You met the wrong people dude :O Yes corps are careful with whom they accept as members, but what you experienced sounds very unusual to me
Love this attitude. I've been with Eve forever, and the complaining never stops. People leaving never stops. This year they increase the cost for the first time in FOREVER and everyone freakes out. Just another good clensing of people that just see the game as a profit mechanism instead of a game. I am some risk averse, but I'm willing to use my Orca and never pay stupid fees that some corp thinks it should get. I can earn 1B in the market from nothing if need be, just takes time. I'm glad you have a willingness to get out there and play!
I share alot with you. Why is it so hard to understand some ppl just like mining? "Miners are the Market NOT crabs"
Risk aversion is a consequence of low reward for high risk. If there is little to no incentive to do something with high risk no one except adrenaline junkies and masochists would even bother.
@George Costanza I like, don't give a fuck. I mean no shit Sherlock, this video is an opinion, your preference is an opinion. If you're going to comment at least don't waste our time by pointing out the obvious.
Inflation in EVE has utterly destroyed content in this game. It's not risk I'm adverse to. It's more a matter of "How much bullshit am I going to have to swallow, to replace this loss after I do something FUN?" There's little reason in dragging out a blinged BC fit, if I'm going to have to mindlessly grind my face off for X number of days/weeks to pay for another. Was NOTHING like this when I was in null 3-4 years ago.
It's simply gotten too damned expensive.
You mention paranoia. Another corp mate and I were mining Gneiss in a 0.4 anomaly in Ventures today. We had a Praxis watching our back. A 4th person pops on local, Praxis runs and docks. We keep mining. I message the Praxis "Dude, I have a base here. That guy is a gas miner. He's 5.0 sec status and hasn't had a PVP kill in 5 years. Come take care of these Serpentis. Check the intel."
Mind you I have been playing EVE less than a month as type this. I have $500m in the bank. Corp mates are billionaires. I have 10 Ventures to replace this thing. When I go Omega I will have 10 mining barges spread out in different systems. (Shrug) Ships are gonna get blown up. Don't be stupid, but don't be paranoid. Take the risk or else be poor.
I'm fairly new to EVE, but what's the point of earning ISK just to never use the ships you buy with it. I'm trying to have fun playing the game bro, I'll take an L here or there
I go thru this same cycle so many times with eve...sit there brainstorming on ways how to make isk, but for what? what do I want ht eisk for... I have all the caps and mods ill ever needs, and I never use them because to me its just stressful putting that much on the line... its the bittersweet reason why eve is so enjoyable and stressful, because there is a feeling of realworld value tied into the ships you put on the line... I think without that aspect this game would become pretty boring, but its also what makes the game boring..
remember, its risk free if theres nobody else in the system :)
Can’t spell risk without isk 🤣
I'm risk averse myself but the corps and alliances of miners are totally scared mice with a complete lack of initiative. Wouldn't join one again. Ever!
Oh and if they do pvp it's really only team dock sniping on Jita the suspects.
And they call that content 😒
Mine & Camp Forever is not working for me.
I always felt that being able to replace your losses relatively easily made the risk-aversion fade away. Making everything more tedious and expensive to build and buy in the game will cause a downward trend in content, not the other way around.
Well made point. Perspective and context matters. My Strategy for risk is - 'come and get me, while you are failing to kill me you are not killing off some noob or delicate petal that may quit. I can take take it and everything is replaceable when i make mistakes that give you a rare victory'. 'I will actively frustrate you to the point that you cannot face your continued failure'.
It's way more fun to be the rabbit than the fox.
Near2 made the paranoia real, not wind based.
eve needs full 360 rework on game and players mindsets from ground up and it may have chance for "glory" days again
Great reflection :) I think we all went through that. Just stop saying “like” every 5 words, would make your nice story telling more enjoyable.
dam youve been playing with the wrong people if they always making you scared to loose stuff, thats part of the point of the game ;)
You tell me lol
@@JAKEL33T Hope you have found a good home with people you enjoy playing with :D if not hit me up, Im always down to try and make the game better for anyone who wants it :D
I’ll let you know
Scew this game and the old scanmers that prey in new players
Null carebears are worse then hi sec carebears :)
eve was always risk vs reward. but currently there is ne reward anymore.... riskin a cap or sup cap is just stupid
lol I really wish you saw local jump +20 while recording this.
Ccp ruined the game with scarcity 🤬 now it’s pay to win 🤬🤬🤬
There are literally thousands of players that just grab a ship and start roaming, every day/night. I have no idea what you're talking about with all this "paranoia".
Now, in the limited context of a purely mining/industrial corp, that's an entirely different matter. When you're in a corp, you don't play for yourself. You clearly have a very self centric vision of the game, and that's fine, but I mean if you like risk why joining a mining corp in the first place?
Here's how a mining corp thinks: there are people out there that are craving for content. Unless you're a PvP corp, whose goal is to find content (or provide it to other PvP corps, ehm), content starvation is your best defence.
By that I mean, create the most content devoid region of space in Eve. PvPers should consider your space (whether it's "yours" or just happens to be the HS corner you operate in doesn't matter) boring as hell, so that they'll avoid it.
It's not paranoia, it's just basic strategy. The problem is never "loosing a ship". The problem is provinding content. It's a corp / sector problem, expecially in HS. In HS you can't defend yourself, fullstop. "Be elsewhere" is your only line of defence. So ideally you want to operate in a corp w no recent losses in a system with no recent losses. This way, gankers are elsewhere.
As a mining corp you always operate with a target painted on your ships, the only thing you can do is make it as small as possible. Every time a ship is ganked in your system, the target on every ship there becomes larger. Ever time one corp mate of your gets ganked, the target on all ships of the corp gets larger.
In your case, the problem is that you operate in a corp. Go solo and mine in a rorqual. That doesn't work? Well you can't have a cake and eat it. You can't love the risk, and expect all your corpmates take the toll for that love of yours.
Then again, just find a pvp corp. Mining corps probably represent less than 10% of the gameplay in Eve.
In short, don't join a corp if their playstyle doesn't suit you. Don't criticize your corpmates for doing the right thing, only because you don't like it. Don't critizing them for wanting YOU to do the right thing, so that THEY don't pay the price.
EVE was sold in 2018. You don't sell when your company is doing well. The new buyer is making as much as they can until the company just fades away. They don't care anymore what you think. Check out Star Citizen TODAY!
if you get the chance, check out bjorn bee's rorqual battle fit. lol