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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- Hoshimachi Suisei once again mentions wanting to learn English and also tells the story of how she celebrated barely passing her English test to her teacher's annoyance...
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It's ok Suisei. I also almost failed English too.
Only difference is that it's my first and only language
🤝
some people fail their first language, including mine.
It reminds me of the meme, “I speak English because it’s the only language YOU know” but people don’t tell you how hard it is to be bilingual sometimes. Sucks that being a huge Mexican weeb, Japanese wasn’t really an option growing up so English it was
I almost failed Portuguese multiple times, until I learned how to approach it in a way that I like. You're not alone in stumbling with your native language.
first language is sooooo hard compared to second language imo. btw my first lang is indo and second (kinda) is english
The point on knowing vocabulary being enough for casual use is very true. If you can string together the correct ideas the specifics of how you say it generally wont make too much difference in most cases. Obviously being able to communicate fluently is impressive but it takes a lot of effort learning grammar rules while not sounding like a speaking textbook
Subaru is pretty much at the point where she can recognize most English words, but she still strings her sentences in Japanese grammar.
I think having the vocabulary to convey ideas opens the door, because then you can practice by having real conversations which is supposedly the money maker for learning languages.
@@LyrialEra If grammar is a chore for you, I agree. You can improvise and get your meaning across well enough for people to understand.
I enjoy grammar and the logical thought process behind it, though, so I give it priority and add vocabulary on top of this framework once I have the beams and columns all set up. JMP.
There's also the fact that grammar is basically a bunch of rules in how to put things together, and English is possibly the worst language when it comes to having "rules" and then not following them.
Yeah, to be understandable by Hajime is good enough 😂.
Hi honey alone should have passed the test
"iyeyyyyy" - suisei probably
I totally get what she means about hearing Ririka speaking English. I always have a big grin on my face when she and Haachama are talking with the EN fans.
The world is not ready for Sui to fluently scold everyone in english
No, it has been ready for a few years. What it's not ready for is for Suisei to scold us in Eigo and know off the cuff what she is actually saying.
Then you haven't seen when she calls you n...rs xD
@@Darg94 Yes we do be northerners.
How did I never realise how cute Sui-chan looks when she smiles brightly with her eyes closed 😄
Well, her 3D model did get an update a few months ago, previously she wasn’t able to do the :D face in 3D
"As long as I avoid failing. That's enough for me"
Same Suisei... Same.
I only barely scrapped a pass through school much to the irritation of my teachers 😅
Yes, likewise with how I converse with Japanese people - Keen-minded individuals will understand your intentions enough once you string a few nouns and verbs together, regardless of grammar or synthesis.
Even when not perfect, the laughs between two people of different languages is good enough a mood lifter and motivation to learn and interact.
One underrated member that had decent English proficiency is Watame! She had come a long way and could pick up the general topic the chat is reacting to nowadays!
It also helps that there's quite a number of EN watamates hanging around her chat because of how her stream-time works, it's truly a trial by fire for Watame
Oh for sure, Watame has low-key good comprehension. Marine too, though it comes up less often.
Both Marine and Watame lost their edge though due to lack of use. Watame still passable though
nail lady got a pretty good idea
you can pick out words that you know, and piece them together
doing that can help figuring out the meaning of the sentence/conversation, and the grammar too
Sui-chan speaking in fluent English would be a dream come true. 😂
Dream come true for her mom too probably
very true about the duolingo stuff, if you're even moderately experienced at the language you're learning it becomes a huge slog of repetition with minimal new vocabulary (speaking from my own experience with Japanese duolingo)
Had an aneurysm when I heard “Hachisen” instead of “Hassen” Japanases Duolingo is slow and Duolingo in general never teaches you grammar at all.
Sorta? Personally, it's perfectly fine, but I do get the whole repetition thing. It's likely for the sake of reinforcement tho, so I'm good with it. You just have to limit how much Duolingo you do per day then supplement it by watching subbed VTuber/TH-camr clips or even subbed anime (or if you're daring and advanced enough, watching stuff without any subs whatsoever). I'd say 5 to 30 minutes per day is ideal, and maybe skip a day or two to focus on immersion or just rest your brain and let the lessons sink in or something...
@@Vtubers-saikou Ah yes, that's one downside of Duolingo. You sorta have to figure out the grammar yourself based on the sentences it shows you plus supplementary media like anime or VTuber clips or something. It's been fine for me, but I get how it can be a struggle, especially in cases when Duolingo isn't flexible enough for both English and Japanese (like, there's times when you have to translate something, and realistically, what you typed is actually acceptable, but Duo rejects it).
Duolingo in Japanese was absolutely worthless for me. I think I could actually feel myself getting stupider when using it. The app that actually helps is Bunpro, which focuses on grammar. Before starting with that (and the podcast Japanese Grammar Tips), Japanese sentences were often completely impenetrable to me, even though my vocabulary was decent from years of weebdom.
for any language to language, do flashcards, anki is great with countless decks for most of languages
if you want to learn JP specifically, jpdb is like much better anki because it has database of anime, manga, light novels, visual novels and lets you learn with corresponding frequency decks easily (unless you want to be really creative with flashcards and have large control over them in which case it clearly loses to anki) but it doesn't properly support anything other than EN -> JP
Don't waste too much time on grammar early on, you can improve your grammar after you have solid base of vocabulary. Once you do, continue doing both simultaneously.
The head tilts when she thinks after reading a question ❤
It's great to see Sui-chan's interest in learning English! Being bilingual is nice, although you might always feel that you're lacking in your second one. Watching and listening to Hololive streams so much had actually helped quite a bit with my Japanese learning honestly!
Too right! Listening to the Holomems talk has been my reinforcement for what I learn in tutoring classes. It's always a whale of a time when I hear something and go "I know this expression!" or "Hey, it's that word!" or even better, "I know what she means without needing translation!".
On that note, the more Nihongo you learn, the more appealing zatsudan streams become. A year ago you wouldn't catch me in a zatsu, even if it was my OG kamioshi on the screen. Now zatsus are usually priority when multiple oshis of mine are broadcasting.
Time to get suichan on the anki grind
Man, i really want another Duolingo stream
I love the Suienglish so much
Her nail artist is right. You can talk like a caveman and we'll understand you. Vocabulary is way more important than grammar when you first start learning. But getting your ears used to the language is also very important, that's why I always recommend that new learners watch at least 1 episode of a childrens show (aimed at Kindergarten children) every single day without subtitles. That repetition really helps and is far less boring than whatever textbooks and duolingo offer.
110% - most of the (limited) Spanish I know is from Dora the Explorer, not the 6 years of Spanish I was required by law to take in school.
There is just no way you won't have a smile on your face listening to Ririka's English. He Eng stream heals my soul
If I have to give an advice to Holomem, (and I've been saying it for years)
Is that they should start playing games in English, or watch Shows in English with subs.
Couple of my friends, including some streamers I used to watch literally learned their English from playing video games alone.
Subaru is also a great example, she was able to recognize sentence patterns because she watched overseas shows in Sub instead of Dub.
So, they should pick a game they've already played before/familiar with the story. Then just replay in English.
And
Also speak to EN/ID member, EVERY SINGLE DAY.
Don't treat it like a high school knowledge where you learned from books and just forget, never use it again.
Treat it like an everyday skill. That's how you learn your first language.
Now, of course, it won't be on an academic level but, they'll be able converse like Subaru and then some.
my limited ability to hear and speak spanish fell apart fast after middle school, but my limited ability to read it came from constant practice, reading various spanish-language snippets.
practice is very much key
Me right there. Games taught me the most English by a huge margin. And they opened the door for the rest of the language to filter in with books and comics and more complex content from there, to the point where now I translate university papers as a side gig.
As Noel once said, sometimes just surviving in life is amazing. A win is a win, a pass is a pass!
Coming from the opposite and using duolingo for japanese, I will definitely say that without consistency you aren't going to retain any of it. I do a duolingo lesson section every day and I still forget some stuff
Consistency and effective methods to make the lessons stick. Some people use flash cards, others speedread through the previous contents. I like pencil on paper the best - write the key points down, then read them later for a quick refresher.
I feel like for people like Suisei, singing is a super op way to learn new languages. If she learned the lyrics and translations to a couple of english songs she likes, she would learn some new vocabulary that you would have to keep repeating, singing kind of forces you to pronounce stuff at least somewhat correctly cause everything would get messed up if you add extra syllables like japanese people often do and you would be reating sentences with correct grammar over and over.
110%! Most of the Japanese I've learned is from watching clips and noticing when a word is used multiple times in some subtitles and counting the times words are said verbally (aka, frequency analysis), but the next largest source is by singing jpop in the car. I can almost translate the entirety of Stellar Stellar into English as it plays, because it's the first song in my playlist and I've read the English lyrics a million times
Oh yeah. For music-oriented people, that's a good tip.
Her "hi honey!" just makes me all giggly for some reason
I hope someday that Hololive makes it easier to learn languages.
Real talk? They're missing out on not doing collab work with foreign language schools. Miko got a few Eigo textbooks IIRC, but that was among other school subjects and it never went past that.
If there's any single company most responsible for incentivizing foreigners to learn Nihongo and nationals to learn English or Bahasa, that'd be Cover Corp. They're a legit soft power by this point.
Not only that, it'd standardize the translation efforts of the talents. As is, some use Google Translate, some rely on DeepL, and a select few like Nene and Polka resort to their personal Pocketalk, which isn't exactly cheap and available to everyone.
@@DanielDugovic IMO Cover is missing out on not having a collab or partnership with a language school. If there's one group that exports Nihongo and imports English like crazy, it's Hololive.
It is usually really up to the individuals. Unless they have enough money for the program
I think she should just throw herself into talking with the EN members, helps with listening to native speakers and will commit it to memory more as it will be everyday words being used
Honestly, the woman who does her nails is pretty correct about how to learn English. Focus on the very basics of the grammar, and expand vocabulary. Fill in the details of grammar as you get more experienced.
I honestly think that'd do pretty well for being understood.
That's the thing about English; it has a lot of stupid and contradictory rules that can be difficult to get correct when you're learning it, but you don't need to get them correct to be generally understood. In fact, you can get quite a bit wrong and probably still do decently well making yourself understood.
I think that actually helps English get picked up more than other languages. While it's obviously not always the case, there are other languages out there where these kinds of rules CAN'T be ignored, because something simple like conjugating a word incorrectly makes you incomprehensible. English is pretty forgiving when it comes to that.
the great irony: english, for all its complexity, is a bit free-form
there's languages that are even more free-form, but english is one of the more grammatically forgiving languages
It's always astonishing to me how many apps completely fail to try and teach their users in the way children learn languages. Our brains' language learning circuitry doesn't change, it just gets more rigid. Knowing grammar rules is fine, but if you don't know the word "butter," good luck getting it passed to you without saying something bizarre like "sliding thick milk"
Meanwhile her business partner has elite english
I feel like her mom would draw and quarter her for this.
Choose your weapon : bamboo, sandals, stick, belt, broom, anything else you can reach
How the sui nearly failed English
For people who wants to learn a new language, the first step you should take is to familiarize yourself with the language, at least to the point where it doesn't sounds like "gibberish" when you listen to it. Once you're familiar with the language, it becomes easier to memorize the words and its meaning. Then, you can try to listen to people speaking the language to recognize the speech pattern. After that, you can practice to make sentences and speak it out. By doing this, you're learning the grammar, pronunciation, and the stops/pause in a sentence. From here, you can try to learn more about the linguistics, accents, contexts, metaphors, etc.
For the written part of the language, it's mostly memorization. Especially with the ones that has their own alphabets, like Japanese, Chinese, Russian, Thailand, and many others.
This is how I learned languages that aren't my first. English, Javanese, and Japanese. I can't say I'm good at those, but I can at least holds an everyday conversation (maybe). Unfortunately, I still can't read Kanji and Javanese letter, lmao.
Somebody sign up the Comet Girl for one of Calli's English lessons, stat!
I always amazed japanese has 30 as passing limit.
In my place, we need to score 60.
Damn Sui-chan don't expose me. That's the reason i keep getting high grades all the way during school and college lol
I wouldn't suspect anything if Kazama-dono suddenly start using more English. More like, i support her fully!
sui-chan cute.
would be interesting to hear an english jouzu sui-chan.
Another Duolingo stream... we can never escape from the bird
Soo cute when she got 32% ganbatte Sui-chan.
Just imagine if there's a some sort of tetris word game.
No wonder she and Calli get along then.
If Suisei is indeed gonna make a push to learn English for real, I wish her lots of strength for that. Whether it's for fun or obligation, learning another language takes lots of commitment and is a long process, unless you're an Austrian chicken. 😜
And may she pick the method that she has the most fun in, coz learning as a chore sticks about as well as a suction cup on raw concrete. For me, playing games and reading walkthroughs and discussions online taught me far, far, FAR more and better English than the 6 or 7 years I studied it officially in school or as an extracurricular course. Now I'm learning Japanese and going full send on my tutoring classes, and it's been so fun that I don't even game when I have pending homework or studies, they're my main pastime.
Also I'm learning grammar and syntax alongside vocabulary, focusing more on the grammar. It's an unpopular take going from the other comments, but I'm fascinated by the _logic_ behind a language's structure, and grammar (morphology, syntax, etc) give me that knowledge on a silver platter. When I understand and comprehend the framework of a language, the words fit into that framework naturally.
How is 32% not a failing mark?! lol
Japan uses floating average as the passing mark. Instead of a set number like 50 out of 100.
Floating average is basically the average grade of either their class, or of the entire year (Like all of the Year 10s in the school)
So that means the passing mark is half of the average grade. So basically, if an exam is really hard, the passing mark will be lower, making it "easier" to pass. However if an exam is super easy, the passing mark will be higher lol.
30% is the passing mark most of the time in Japan.
I can only wonder how was Mamamachi gonna feel about her daughter barely failing her English tests
4:03 I only mention this because I recently learned it and thought it was interesting--"kokugo" here is roughly "Japanese (class)", but in the sense of how "English (class)" is used in English. Not that they match exactly, but they have learning grammar, reading literature, etc. in common.
(This is of course not meant as a criticism of the subtitle, as "kokugo" does literally mean "national language" and is more comprehensible if you're not adding a footnote like I am.)
I'm glad you added a footnote, I was a bit confused by "National Language." My assumption was correct, but having that confirmation is nice lol
*Suienglish is adorable* i love her shes so cute
It's always weird to me how hard japanese get driven to study and yet the passing grade is as low as 30% when I'm used to it being at least twice that (and it only goes higher the longer you are in school).
30% counts as the pass mark in JP? Damn they must be some brutal exams.
The real joke would be to tell her to watch subbed anime
Sui-chan... Ririka is nowhere close to being fluent. In fact she's not much better than other talents who consider themselves to be terrible at English - she's just unafraid of making mistakes and doesn't freeze up when she lacks words, she keeps trying to communicate.
tho that's part of what's put her way ahead of most the rest of holo jp
And THAT is what puts her ahead of the curve.
IRyS is probably the strongest bilingual Holomember...
recently found out she was essentially raised bilingual
Suisei's nailist (is that really the name???) is right on the money! It's actually more natural for your brain to learn vocabulary first - think about the order in which toddlers learn how to talk. They don't start off with perfecting their grammar, they learn what noise a cow makes, they learn that A is for "apple", etc. You can't learn grammar if you don't have words to make full sentences from anyways.
-The word you want is "manicure".-
ERRATA: See below
@@DinnerForkTongue except manicure is the thing she had done to her nails, afaik that's not the job title of the person doing it xD
@@TheKd8lvt Could be a language diff, but there are languages where the name applies to both the procedure and the professional performing it.
@@TheKd8lvt OK, just checked. The proper term is _manicurist._
Sometimes i forgot how her table clock actually works and tells you the time 😂
Book shops report being cleared out of English instruction materials by a certain blonde samurai.
That's blatantly false. Ninjas operate unseen.
@@DinnerForkTongue Sure, but a sweethearted samurai wouldn't steal.
@@OOZ662 Oh I didn't mean stealing. Samurai or Ninja, Gozaru is too nice and seiso for filching.
32% at English is wild 😭 still shes got more space for improvement if she tried
I'm so early I cannot hit the like button and if I do it's still zero lol
Hahahahaha xD
Isn't suisei's mom is an english teacher? Why not ask her mom to teach her 😂
In America failing is either below a 50% or 60%, so a 32% would be a red mark~~~
Not that I can relate. My grades in high school were near perfect. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
yea its one of those things whenever I read manga that leaves me very confused, I see characters being relieved that they got 30, 40, 20 and stuff when that would have been the end of the world for me back then.
It could be the difficulty of the tests. For example, while failing grade is about 60%, the stuff they give you is easy, so it is hard to fail.
However, when you take tougher courses, like advanced calculus, failing grade for those tests tend to be lower than 60%.
I did have some terrible grades in the past but was always able to get the whole grade into a passing (and often above average) one by years end.
I did fail a few classes in University (Law Faculty) in one year because I was aboard during the first semester via Erasmus so couldn't follow the lectures of that semester. But next year I was able to graduate with a decent grade by passing both all the lectures of the last year and those lectures I was taking again because I had failed them last year.
Also yeah, passing grade here is usually something like 60% (well, the total result for the year is supposed to be 60%, the final exam itself usually is more like 50% instead).
I was used to failing grade being below 50%. Then it was raised to 60% and it was a struggle bus on some subjects. It's hard to work without a buffer.
Duolingo is garbage.
meanwhile in my school you'd fail if you get below 75%🥲
Damn, that is a real high threshold, highest I saw in mine was like 63-65%.
Yo what kind of elite school you went to to have such high standard 😂
damn I would be repeating same class for life
Brazilian public university used to fail you if you got below 70%. We really felt the squeeze.
bros in cote