HHO Neutral Plates Explained
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 พ.ค. 2011
- The third video in a series for people who are new to HHO. This video explains the concept behind using neutral plates and shows how they keep your HHO cell from overheating.
- วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Very nice video, well explained thanks for the info, don't know why people complain about videos like this, you are giving away your knowledge free, good job
Excellent info. Will save my thousand questions until I've watched all your vids on HHO. Thanks for explaining a basic heat problem & how it's resolved. Now back to vid 1.
You are a legend. Thanks for your hard work, my cell works perfectly. The neutral plates also keep my water temp. down. Just brilliant!!!
so that is why my wire always getting hot, because my hho does not have neutral plate. thank you sir for the explanation.
I'm new with this technology and no know-how what-so-ever about HHO generators but I am very much interested, It took me sometime searching for videos to explain how neutral plate works and here you simply explained it so well that I understood it quickly. Thank you so much, kudos to you and keep on doing videos like this!
Thank you for a simple, straightforward and excellent explanation / presentation. Please be encouraged and do not let the inevitable negative people spoil your day. God bless !!!
Brilliat tutorials! Learned more from your vids than anywhere else.
Thanks Mike, I always wondered on the forums what the +nnnnnn- meant and I couldn't get it in my mind how they could get to 2 volts. Great video. Keep up the good work.
Thank you, You just cleared up a big question for me. This should be elementary for anyone who understands series/parrallel. Much appreciated!!!
Good stuff! Well laid out and explained.
Thank You for your Very Clear and Very Understandable Video! You do an awesome job of explaining it!
thank you, very clear.
Finally I understand thanks for the help!
Very nice explenation Mike. Perfect to send HHO newbies to.
Larry
this is a very good video for explaining how to understand neutrals. thanks much.
Great clips packed with info for novices, thank you! 1 issue I've discovered even thru my research EFI engines need O2 & MAS tuners. Wish I'd seen that earlier in my attempts to build HHO devices. I'm a bit discouraged now knowing I'll need to spend more for those devices. Also, noone seems to show or do "sloshing" test. ie: if the unit is operating on a vehicle while driving around and the solution is sloshing inside the containers, how that effects the HHO production.
Excelent now I understand much better the use of neutral plates. Thanks for this video
this is very serious and informative, thank´s a lot man...you do a gret effort explaining the procces,and it is aprecciated..
Awesome vids Man.
Keep up the vids mate.
I'm new to all this and i have learned more from your vids than probably all the others that i have watched.
I notice that most plates are about the same size.
If i were using 2v supply and made the plates say 300mm x 200mm would that make much of a diff? or would i need to up the voltage.
GREAT explanation grasped the concept quicky
@31saint31 Like I explain in the video as long as you keep it in the 2v - 2.2v / plate gap range then you will be fine. If you are running 12v - 13.5v and you have less than 5 neutral plates then yes adding more neutrals will lower the heat. Your cell will still heat up over time just not nearly as fast.
In my older videos of the EBN cells I was running 4 neutrals between each positive and negative plate. You can't tell because the tabs on the plates alternate. Count the actual plates (thin silver lines) not the tabs. Since those early videos all the cells have been running with 5 neutral plate configurations.
Excellent video man, helped alot!.
@TheJimmax Yes for this calculation you only use one side of one plate to come up with the initial number that gets divided by two. Also, yes, I have shipped products to the UK but it gets expensive. A typical dry cell or kit is $45.50 - $58.00 to ship overseas. On top of that different products get shipped from different vendors so it can add up.
Thank you very much for this explanation! I've been wondering what the N plates were for, even asked the suppliers of my system. They couldn't give me an answer, great,eh? That's what I call after sales service! NOT!
So thanks, I've subscribed to your channel.
this has given me a lot of insight and filled in some of the gaps (no pun intended)
I run plus minus over 8 plates in my vehicle. My volt meter never seems to drop under 2 volts and max out at 30 amps. I use a stainless steel bucket as it syncs heat better from the water. It does overheat if i travel over 1 hour drive time and also starts drawing over 3 volts. Its when I turn it off. I use very little electrolyte. Sometimes I use tap water contaminants as electrolyte. Dont need much with plates in series. Great explanation.
Thank you I have been looking for this answer.
I'm so glad you stood up for yourself. Much respect my friend. Thank you for the excellent video! People like that enjoy pissing people off. Probably paid to do so ;)
really thanks! i love your videos and style. you´re very good teacher. you explain everything to understand for beginner people like me. i have to check better your channel but what do you think about who many hho its inyected to the engine? it dont take care of the rpm of the engine. im sorry for my englis im spanish and i´m still learning. thanks!
@shortyjk95 Glad to help. You are correct, 7 neutrals would be too many. Try 5 and if the cell gets too hot consider using 6. Remember you will need to add more electrolyte when you add neutral plates.
Thank you for your video. Just a question, have you tried using coils instead of plates or mix of both? Would this give higher HHO output?
@quicksilverphil Yes, they are bi-polar plates meaning they make H on one side and O on the other.
thanks Mike, very well explained, question can this principal work in a wet cell?
@HHOPWR Thanks Larry, I figured these videos would save us a lot of keystrokes on the forums when the newbies show up.
Yes, it applies to a wet cell also.
@31saint31 Yes, solid because the more holes in the plates (like a mesh especially) then the more current leakage you have. This means more heat and less efficiency.
Thank you, very helpful video.
thanks its help me very much,
Thanks for this..first time I have heard it so clearly. I assume from this then that one does not need a PWM if you can get it down to two volts?
The other question I have always wondered about is the thickness of the plates. What is best and why. What are the consequences of using thicker /thinner plates. What is optimum?
Thanks very much...you are a great teacher
JB
@TheJimmax Take the total exposed surface area of one plate (lets say 4"x4" = 16 square in). Multiply that number by .5 (or half). We now have 8, so the maximum amount of amps that you would want to throw at one series (7 plates if running 5 neutrals) is 8 amps. Now say you have a 19 plate cell, that would be three stacks of a 7 plate series, so take 8 amps and multiply it by the number of stacks (8 x 3 = 24 amps max for a 19 plate cell ). Make sense?
Thanks for the information Mike!, can you please confirm the thickness for the plates?.
Thanks in advance.
amazingly simple and well said thx
Excellent presentation! Thanks!
I was just posting on HHOForums about using a -N+N- configuration with a PWM to control amps/heat.
My dry cell is -NNNN+NNNN-NNNN+NNNN-NNNN+ using a 30A PWM.
In your opinion, is this good for a 2.2L gasoline engine?
Great Video, thanks for this. I want to build an electrolysis rig to obtain oxygen and hydrogen separately. Most setups have two vertical tubes with a bridge tube between the anode and cathode that is below the hight... Anyways, I'm sure you know the rig. My Question is whether you could use neutral plates and still obtain separate gases? Are the gases still only produced at the anode and cathode or is gas produced by the neutral plates too? Thanks.
@Dooobs You are correct, with 19 plates the configuration is +NNNNN-NNNN+NNNNN-. You have learned well young Jedi!
very nice and clear...thank you bro.. take care always...
I would buy from this guy
Thanks hhoconnection for this explanation! I'm just started to build an HHO generator for my 93' Mazda RX-7 expecting less fuel consumption or some more power output depending on use. I also have to use O2 sensor extender along with the main and safety components as O2 sensor reads will be vary and I should run my engine with 12.1:1 air/fuel ratio. Would you have any technical info for the plates (grade of stainless steel, etc..) to use or else? Thanks again for this detailed video!
hello, ok that is for dry cells only...? and for wet wet cells is it the same? i have a wet cell 7 plate but i hooked up + - + - + - + with no neutrals in between...what would be the best configuration to get the best gas production?
Thank you i learn so much from you
BIG THANKS!!!
Hi Mike, after all my research into HHO, you provide the best info. I really appreciate it. Just to confirm are you saying any voltage under 2.2 volts is best. My question is that on a 31 plate generator are you still using 12Volts?...or are they designed to use greater voltage??
Thanks again MM
Thanks - now it is clear what are the neutral plates :)
@Melvinizel Add more neutral plates between each + and - connection. While cars do run on 12 volt systems, the alternator actually produces about 13.8 volts with the engine running. Check yours. Based on an operational amount of 13.8 volts you would need 7 neutral plates which equates to 1.97 volts per plate. Excellent for HHO production and avoid overheating that produces steam. Use 6 plates if you prefer, but be sure to use a PWM as a control measure.
@marshyman66 Yes, on a 31 plate cell you still use 12v. I can't post a link here but look for my video called "neutral plates explained". It's all about getting your volts/plate gap down to around 2 volts.
@AQFearfullMage The electrolyte is distilled water and Potassium Hydroxide (KOH). You can use that or Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH).
Yes, that would work just fine but keep in mind that when you go with 6 neutrals you will need to mix the electrolyte very strong to compensate. Handle with care!
Sounds great, now do a video and share it with the world!
just a quick question could i use a voltage regulator 12v to 2v instead of all the neutral plates to get a smaller 2 plate cell?
Thank you very, very much!!!!
I have a motorhome with a 454 engine that I am looking into the possibility of running on HHO. There is plenty of space to work with, however I'm worried about my output of HHO meeting the high demand needs of acceleration/versus cruising at a normal speed. I'm thinking I'm going to have to find a way to store the HHO gas into a pressurized cylinder to be sure there is no drop in power when it's needed. Is this true? If so, where should I look to learn about storing HHO under pressure?
lol...a voltage divider through water...never thought that would work....i take it the neutral plates are free floating and unconnected?
Thank you for this video. Well explained.
How about the production of Hydrogen, thus this makes big difference compared to no neutral plates. like for example, 3 interval plates are connected to anode and the other 4 interval plates connected to cathode?
Thank you for your reply. Question. Would an increased number of neutral plates solve that issue?
That's an interesting idea. I don't think I have heard that one yet. Give it a try and let us know what you find.
Thanks sir, its pretty clear now....
very nice video thank you so much for sharing
Thanks, saw one of your other video's. One more question: Wouldn't you get chlorine gas when inducing a current though a salty soultion?
You will still need a PWM in most cases because the cell will still warm up, just not nearly as fast. For your plates, use a minimum of 20 gauge if you are not going to media blast them and a minimum of 18 gauge if you are going to media blast them. Be very careful when media blasting because they will want to warp.
I've seen designs on youtube where the positive and negative plates are basically just alternatively stacked on top of each other, one after the other, positive then negative and so forth, with no neutral plates in between. What are your thoughts on those designs?
It depends on how may amps you are drawing and how many amps your supply can handle.
hello mike!
can i use a combination of 2 positives and 2 negatives with 6 neutral plates in between? the total number of plates would be 22 in my proyect.
there is no dry cell with 22 plates
How about a 'many x 2V' power supply?
Think like this: Switch-mode psu (say one single crappy tl494), has pwm, rectifying, filtering, galvanic separation, but the transformer has, instead of one secondary winding, many (as many cells are needed) windings of 2V each. With a diode and a capacitor. I guess only one global current sensing and one voltage sensing circuits are enough.
The efficiency of the system is, at least, improved with some extra power-to-weight ratio ;)
what electrolyte solution would you recomend for the plate configuration you just demonstrated?
Hi, this is great. I just tried to find an answer to these problem a couple weeks before from my friend but I found it today.
I have one questions though, will the neutral plate produces gas just like the +ve and -ve plates. Can you please answer this. Thank you.
Great video, but I noticed something you mentioned.. You first say that heat is generated by over voltage and is waste. At the end of the video you also mention that the addition of neutral plates also reduces current..
So my question is, aren't the neutral plates acting on limiting current? thus reducing heat ? If you take a specific sell and add neutral plates, how much current is reduced over that of 2 single plates? What si the difference in HHO production? Need to make one of these. :D
very nice video. you said that its best to have about 5 to 6 neutral plates, but in one of your videos i saw you had 1 positive then 2 neutrals then 1 negative then 2 neutrals then 1 positive then 2 neutrals then 1 negative then 2 neutrals then 1 positive. will that over heat. and is it best to have more positive or negative plates.
Yes, this applies to wet cells also.
Hi Mike, this is probably not a clever question but would having 6 separate cells in series be more efficient and provide better cooling? Although this would cost more in some parts such as pvc & connections it would mean less gaskets and less stainless.
Sorry i've only learned about dry cells earlier today, it makes so much sense, i'm glad i didn't start out with the wet style cells.
Hey thank you for the video! I didn't know about the optimum voltage for HHO generation. I was wondering if you heard about Stan Meyers and his HHO generation system. Apparently Stan found a way to generate HHO using high voltage and low current (the oppocite of the typical method). I was wondering if you knew anything about that. Again, thanx for the video and all your work concerning alternative energy sources. :)
Thank you i gave a very big confusion about the neutral plate
That is because you went way over 2v/plate gap. Do what I did in the video and measure the voltage between your plates. Keep them below 2.2v.
Thank you.
You don't have to be nasty about it! I didn't give you a thumbs down! I'm working on a dry cell right now. I wouldn't make a video because despite working on well cells for years, and making a hydrogen powered cannon, I would not pretend to know enough about this to teach people about the subject. Thanks for making the internet such a friendly place.
What are the advantages of neutral plates versus using a DC to DC converter to drop the main power supply to ~2 volts?
Great sir
They're available for a huge list of applications. From electric cars to freight trains.
And is it more effective or less effective if instead of having neutral plate I link plate like + - + - + - etc ? ( with neutral plate it would be like + 0 0 0 0 - )
If doing a wet cell, how would you wire the neutral plates?
I just made my first wet cell, temporarily running off a 18v cordless drill battery. Seems like the neutrals don't bubble much at all. Would it be more efficient to run a 3 volt battery off each pair of plates? Granted, I don't know where to find rechargeable 3 volt batteries.
Everyone that I know who tried graphite said it broke down over time. I'll be curious to see how yours holds up.
Yes
What would be the best electrolytic solution? Sodium bicarb or lye?
Does it have to be stainless steel or can I use the top of a tin can like the ones used in sardines?
Never store HHO....Alright, but how would a person acount for the fluctuation in demand? Sometimes you'll have overages - where would the extra gas go? Other times (if not storing a small amount) you're going to have shortages - causing your climb up a hill ending in a stall. Any HELPFUL comments on this issue?
I think vertical discs that are free to spin could help slough off the gas bubbles quicker. And if the spacing is a little bigger than the average bubble size that should help get the bubbles dispersed to the top quicker. Just an idea to throw out there.
awesome
And how many amps are they good for?
Sir what kind of gasket do you used? and where did you connect the positve and the negative of your plates?