I like the new guy (Robin). When asked to make a list he said I don't need to do that. He took it straight to "Stomp the Yard' and said... I don't step... I battle. Y'all gonna have to step that game up and that's always a good thing
(*Saw this somewhere and had to copy & paste)… Michael Jordan in 13 Full Seasons: 6 championships 6 Finals MVPs 5 MVPs 10 Scoring Titles 9 First Team All-NBA Defense 1 DPOY award 3 Steals Champion 82 game seasons: 9 1 all star teammate Lebron and Durant in 37 full seasons combined: 6 Championships 6 Finals MVPs 5 MVPs 5 Scoring Titles 5 First Team All-NBA Defense O DPOY awards O Steals Champion 82 Game seasons combined: 2 14 combined all star teammates
I think just based off eye test KD has an argument for top 10. If Im assesing accolades and accomplishments then the list does indeed become sliding scale because the rules changes alters who is successful and what is required for that success.
If Lebron and Kobe not in your Top 10, then you don’t know basketball….at all. The fact that yall allow her on the panel to spew non basketball related narratives makes no sense. She also said they stopped playing defense after 2004, the disrespect towards the game is insane. This is not Basketball Talk Anymore 😂 Be better next time
And the defensive talk... I couldn't believe that. I said it in live premiere chat but great defenders I think of instantly are Raja Bell, Bruce Bowen, Andre Igudola, Tony Allen, Kawhi Leonard, Andre Kirilenko, Gerald Wallace, Byron Russell, Ron Artest, hell even Draymond Green. I'm not even really trying to a deep dive to the real greats of all time. But to call KD a "GREAT" defender when defense was some guys specialty and you saw it and it was evident is borderline disrespectful. Call him a good defender all day, but GREAT among other GREATS, I don't see that. Even at his position specifically. The GREATEST thing about him defensively is his height. But that's not all that makes a GREAT defender to me. It's a plus though definitely.
@@Mandownsports His height puts him between good and great lol. He's good. We've seen to many greats man. Guys can't just be inserted that easily because they play in a smaller and less physical league. But even then, not a single all defensive selection at no point in his career. No 1st team, 2nd team, 3rd team lol. Keep it a buck.
@@Mandownsports I don't say Kenyon Martin is a great defender lol. Good and definitely great paint presence. A rim protector. I like the point you made, but If anyone ever asked me about great defenders, K Mart name would not come to mind. Keeping it real.
@@Mandownsports And just in case you try pick me apart. K Mart great paint presence and rim protector but compared to names like Shaq, KG, Olajuwon, Mutumbo, Scottie, Rodman, Ben Wallace, Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Alonzo, Kirilenko, and more... K Mart is not a great defender to me. Nor are we putting him in the GOAT debate lmao.
Bro in the top left was getting cooked. All his points, and his rational were foolish lol. Dude in the middle is HEAD AND SHOULDERS than the rest. Mad respect to his knowledge of the game 👏🏽
Quick Answer....No KD is not in the GOAT conversation...just like Bron isnt in it as well. Top 10.....MJ, Kareem, Wilt, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Kobe, Hakeem, Russell, Shaq.
@@jayp1767 Nah they actually don't. It all started when Bron said that silly shid on his podcast. But realistically if you look at his game....with the amount of glaring holes in it....its absolutely no way he's in the GOAT debate. Bad FT shooter, weak rebounder, quit on his team numerous times, team hopping, superteam building, bad fundamentals, flopper, travels like it's going out of style. His only real claim to fame is....he can pass. Fckn hilarious 😂. & he's on PEDs....& once he retires & it comes out..he's gonna drop out of the top 75.
@@crharper25 why you sound so pressed bud🤣🤣and with all that said he's the number 1 leading scorer in nba history, top 5 in assist and rebounds all time, 4 time champ/fmvp, 4 regular season mvp,20 all nba teams the list goes on and on. Now go cry in the corner somewhere 🤣 🤣🤣🤣
@@jayp1767you fool ass Brononites will never get that hanging around for a long time like a bad smell does not make you the GOAT huh, especially with all the gifts he gets, 4 dudes have not gotten a pay raise the last 4 years because they are gonna give LeBron an All NBA 3rd team... wether he deserves it or not, just like Melo don't have his ROY because it was gifted to LeBron, and AD don't have his Finals MVP or IST MVP, because they were gifted to LeBron, just like Steph don't have an Olympic MVP, because before the last 2 games they had already voted to gift it to LeBron 💯 but cry about the DPOY in 2013 😂
Top-7 specifically. And btw it always gets me why everyone says top something instead of saying the position itself. I mean, top seven could mean he's second or third too, or even one.
I mean if we are going strictly off the eye test, this is not too far fetched. The eye test should always be the main indicator. Take your emotions out of it and don’t worship the accolades so much. If I’m a recruiter for a team and if I’m invited to watch all these greats in a scrimmage, I’m definitely picking KD! He’s a great plug in player, you don’t even need him to lead. 6’11 with a handle, great shooting, vicious mid range, solid defense, and he can play off ball. He can be the main guy or he can adapt to play within a system. It doesn’t get any better than that. He may even be better than Bron. I think the obsession with stats and accolades today is taking away the true essence of the game. For example, Carmelo Anthony son just said that Paul George is his Goat. While that may sound crazy to many, the kid is referring to his GAME! Eye test based no resume.
"The eye test should always be the main indicator. Take your emotions out of it and don’t worship the accolades so much." Statistics should be, and are, the main indicator. The eye test is more prone to emotions than statistics. "For example, Carmelo Anthony son just said that Paul George is his Goat. While that may sound crazy to many, the kid is referring to his GAME! Eye test based no resume." That's probably a completely one-sided take. It's based solely on the eye test on PG-13. Because he doesn't have close to the stats or the accolades as the more common names in the top-10, or even top-50. Thus, having PG-13 as the GoaT really is a bad take.
@@penkima4923 I’m sure it was the BALCO part that tipped you off that I was talking about Lebron right? 🤣. C’mon, admit your Kang is an INSECURE CHEATING NARCISSIST. 🤣😂🤷🏾♂️
TOP 30 ALL TIME: 1. Michael Jordan - the greatest player and the greatest career in NBA history. Most dominant offensive force and one of the games greatest defenders. Jordan is one of the few players to build a franchise from nothing to dynasty. A real life OP video-game character. 6x Champ 6x FMVP 5x MVP 1x DPOY 2. Bill Russell - the greatest winner and greatest defensive force in NBA and sports history. A legend on/off court. The key to NBA first dynasty. 11x Champ 5x FMVP 5x MVP 3. Magic Johnson - the great PG ever (so far…). A position-less player who was the best playmaker, ever. REVOLUTIONIZED his position and saved the NBA. Had it not been for his disease who knows how much higher he’d be considered on an alltime list. 5x Champ 3x FMVP 3xMVP 4. LeBron James - the greatest longevity in sports history. At his peak, he amassed some of the greatest individual seasons ever. Playoff King. One of the most dominant forces ever and the greatest all round player. Still.. counting. SCARY. 4x Champ 4x FMVP 4x MVP 5. Tim Duncan - best PF ever. One of the most fundamentally sound players ever. Played both ends at the highest level for 15 seasons. 5x Champ 3x FMVP 2x MVP 6. Kareem Abdul Jabar - owner of the most dominant go-to move on offense. The HOOK. The previous scoring leader and lead all points for 4 decades. The greatest BASKETBALL career ever. Prep to Pro. 6x Champ 2x FMVP 6x MVP 7. Kobe Bryant - see number 1 and dilute the athleticism and physical intangibles and that’s what you got. Arguably the greatest warrior in NBA history. A winner supreme and the games wisest sage. MAMBA. 5x Champ 2x FMVP 1x MVP 8. Shaquille O’Neal - the most dominant ever. The immovable object/unstoppable force. Shaq was the definition of dominance. One of the few who at their peak might’ve had no comparison. Yes, greater than anyone. 4x Champ 3x FMVP 1x MVP 9. Larry Bird - maybe the most legendary on the list. Precursor to Jokic but better. One of the most skilled & clutch players ever. In any sport. If not for Larry’s back quitting on him, who knows how much higher on the list he’d be 3x Champ 2x FMVP 3x MVP 10. Hakeem Olajuwon - back to back. The best of the mid90’s and second best player in the era. Hakeem is like Russell but with AllNBA offensive ability. 2x Champ 2x FMVP 1x MVP 11. Wilt Chamberlain - one of the games most prolific scorers. Arguably it’s greatest defender as well. The man could do it all. Even lead the league in assist at 7”2. Wilt IS unparalleled. GOAT athlete. 2x Champ 2x FMVP 4x MVP 12. Steph Curry - the games most prolific shooter and one of its greatest scorers. REVOLUTIONIZED the game forever. STILL GOING. 4x Champ 1x FMVP 2x MVP 13. Isaiah Thomas - ZEKE. CP3 before CP3 but nastier and meaner. A warrior and one of the games greatest strategist and generals. Quietly a top5 passer. 2x Champ 2x FMVP 14. Oscar Robertson - the greatest all around basketball player ever. Could do everything at a AllNBA level. Changed the way players were interpreted and influenced generations. 1x Champ 2x MVP 15. Kevin Durant - the Slim Reaper is likely the most ideal offensive weapon ever. Can hit from anywhere, anytime over anyone. Hard to beat and impossible to match that level of offensive dominance. 2x Champ 2x FMVP 1x MVP 16. Julius Erving - The good Dr., the FIRST MJ (before Magic & Jordan), The icon and face of BOTH leagues that saved the game in the 70’s. Kareem was the best but Doc was a close 2nd. Underrated statistical brilliance. Was like a 6’7-6’8 Giannis but with a better jump shot. 3x Champ (1 NBA) 2x FMVP 4x MVP (1 NBA) 17.. Moses Malone - CHAIRMAN OF DA BOARDS. Arguably the best board getter… ever. Only Wilt, Russell, Rodman and Thurmond belong in the same discussion. Moses lead his people to the promise land more than once but was able to claim immortality in the early 80’s. His team lead by the dynamic duo of he and Doc dominated the league. Before Lakers v. Celtics it was 76ers v. Celtics-Lakers. 1x Champ 1x FMVP 3xMVP 18. John Havlicek - the GREAT one. MJ is 6-0. Ole Johnny is 8-0. The offensive force off the bench or starting that lead the dynastic Celtics to all 8. Early in his career he was akin to Jordan Poole role on Warriors 22’ team but better at everything but the 3 ball. Then in the late 60’s-70’s he sat in captains seat. His career is a unique mix. Played like Pippen with elite perimeter shooting/scoring, early career was early Kobe-esque, late career MJ/Kobe-esque. John’s game rose in the playoffs. 8x Champ 1x FMVP (likely 4x) 19. Giannis Antetokounmpo - it’s getting freaky… GreekMan is literally on the ride to potentially threatening Tim’s best PF title. If he can add a couple more rings to his already HOF profile he will likely be the new PF or TOP 5 player. Yea. THAT GOOD. 1x Champ 1x FMVP 2x MVP 1x DPOY 20. Jerry West - The LOGO. Steph Curry before Steph. The man that built the LA franchise along Baylor post Mikan era. Jerry West was the blueprint skill base for players like Kobe, MJ, TMac, etc At 6’2-6’3 he torched his opponents his entire career and dropped plenty of dimes. The ORIGINAL combo guard. So damn great he LOST and still won FMVP… case closed. 1x Champ 1x FMVP 21. Nikola Jokic - the Joker is no damn joke. Genuinely a candidate for potential GOAT if his career pans out in the extreme positive like that of the top 10. Jokic is in a unique place being the greatest passing big statically NBA history (excluding Magic). If Jokic finds a way to fit more jewelry in his fingers, we might have to have a real discussion about that greatest Center of all time discussion. Yes. Potentially a top 5 player alert. 1x MVP 1x FMVP 3x MVP (should’ve been 3 consecutive but you know 22. Rick Barry - The ACTUAL “White Mamba”. Just predated the black one… Barry was the answer up until 85’ when you asked who the best SF ever. His game was similar to West but 6’7 and a better FT%. Controversial, cerebral and iconic. Had so much game he had to share what was left with his sons… 1x Champ 1x FMVP 23. Kevin Garnett - The Big Ticket. The 00’ Giannis. In every way but he had a better jumper midrange and beyond. KG was a monstrosity on OFF/DEF in his prime much like his modern comparison. Led the TWolves to relevance and led the 08’ Celtics to a chip. Truly the BIG TICKET. 1x Champ 1x FMVP 1x MVP 24. Dirk Nowitzki - DIGGLER. The one and only. The German Bird. THE Maverick. Dirk is one of the most beloved, iconic and acclaimed players ever. The 00’s stretch big supreme. Dirk was able to take the Mavs to immortality over 11’ Heat in arguably the most surprising run ever. Only Dirk. Forever the DIGGLER. Arguably, the GOAT Euro player. 1x Champ 1x FMVP 1x MVP 25. Bob Pettit - Big Blue was the first stretch 4 in the games history. That’s for starters. Pettit was a tenacious rebounder and highly skilled scorer. He was much akin to K. Love of his era but in better shape and played defense. Think a smaller Dirk who grabbed boards like Love but in the 50’s-60’s era. Not only that, much like Dirk, Pettit lead a historic upset over Russell’s Celtics. A true champ. 1x Champ 1x FMVP 2x MVP 26. Dwayne Wade - The Flash. Wade County. The greatest Heat in NBA history. Wade is arguably the best defensive player at his position and easily too3 (MJ, Kobe). Led the Heat to a title in 06’ in historic fashion against Dirks Mavs. Then winning a couple more as LBJ’s Pippen. His career was like Kobe’s… in reverse. Wade’s early injuries reduced his maximum career output but yet here he is… says a ton. 3x Champ 1x FMVP 27. Elgin Baylor - The PROTOTYPE. Before West, Julius, Thompson, Wilkins, MJ, Hardaway, Kobe, Carter, TMac, Wade, Ant etc There was Elgin Baylor. The first Air, the first Mamba, the first Half Man/Amazing, Flash etc Baylor spearheaded an era that hardly wanted his talents there but had no other choice but to be in awe of it. Think Harden, in shape but not as good of a playmaker, twice the rebounder and a better defender. That’s Elgin. *left a season before historic LAL title win 28. David Robinson - The Admiral. The USA’s biggest weapon in the 90’s was also one of the greatest ever. Made the spurs relevant pre-Duncan and post. Has some of the greatest seasons statistically. Think Giannis but 7’2 with a lefty and 15 footer plus an even better defender. 2x Champ 1x MVP 29. Karl Malone - the Mailman was LBJ minus the handles and vision. King of the pick n roll. 1x MVP 30. Charles Barkley - The Round Mound of Rebound was the Tasmanian devil in a basketball jersey. Prime 25 5 13 guy. Impact everywhere he went. OG DREAMTEAM member by the way… 1x MVP 30 (?) Clyde Drexler - The Glide. One of the most useful all around talents in nba history. One of the greatest two way players ever. Helped every squad he went to become a contender. 1x Champ * HONORABLE MENTION: McHale, Nash, Harden, Parker, CP3, Stockton, Walton, Payton, Westbrook, Drexler, Ewing, Sam Jones, Cousy, Pierce, Iverson, McAdoo, Frazier, Unsled, Reed, Webber, English, A. Davis, Kawhi ^GIVE HONEST FEEDBACK CRITIQUE ATTEMPTING A PERFECT TOP30 list
As a 36 year old man that has been watching NBA since the 1991-92 season's playoffs(I was 4) KD is the guy that made me see what the youngsters meant about "old heads" hate every modern NBA player, because the whole "he couldn't beat the Warriors, so he joined them" narrative, and that's all it is, a narrative, because that is not how it went down, I live in Oklahoma, I'm a Thunder fan, I remember that shit vividly, the media has brain washed everyone to hate this man, what really happened? We had one max contract to give(Thunder), we gave it to Russell Westbrook, even though KD was clearly our best player, we asked him to take 2nd best money, meanwhile, the team that just beat him and us as a team, but lost in the Finals, brings the owner, the PBO, the coach and all the best players to the Hamptons, fly you out and tell you, "we'll give you the max, and a couple of rings to go with it" he woulda been stupid to not take that deal, he left my team and I didn't even blame him lol, then he got those rings as the guy, and ever since they have painted him as a bus rider and not a leader, despite the fact that everyone, including Steph was looking at KD like "what are you gonna do" when it came time to close 😂 and he win both Finals MVPs even trying to give the second one to Steph, but ignore all that I guess 🙄 why would they do that? Because in their eyes(the LeMedia) KD cost the golden boy two rings, and now they sound ridiculous calling their "king" the GOAT, that is why, in closing, I have KD #12 on my all time list, behind Mike, Russell, Kobe, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Wilt, Hakeem, LeBron, Duncan and Shaq in that order, he isn't now, nor do I think he will make it into THE GOAT debate, but if someone has him top 10... that's not outrageous, he's probably gonna be in there when he is done 💯
I have him top 10 Anytime you are considered as the best scorer in nba history or top 2 atleast It's really easy to see how much respect he gets from his peers not just this generation but even the old heads His move to the warriors that's how stuff works now things evolve and players got more power now Is that a good thing or a bad thing I think it is what it is
@@Mandownsports Kobe was like he's the one player he couldn't figure out and this coming from KOBE to me that has to be one of the greatest complements ever from someone that's really respected in the NBA circles
I only go off of skill set i dont go off rings because thats a team accomplishment ..player for player kd is top 3 for me...jordan, Hakeem, durant ...to often team success is brought up judging a player which is flawed in itself ...winning is a team effort ..theres far too many times a star player did enough to win but didn't have the right pieces...
Jordan, Hakeem, durant. ...i simply use the roll the ball on the court method and see who's who.. bringing up accomplishments and accolades becomes a little flawed too many because ther3w far too mnay times a player was robbed of an accolade...and winning is a team accomplishment...but what can the player do not team but player ...since we're talking about greatest player ever not team ...theres nothing u can do with kd but be overly physical and hope the ref dont call it like they did in that Boston series
If we strip away accolades, as in what a player contributes to team success and being decorated, then I have KD over Lebron as a scorer no doubt. But I can't take away the defensive ability Lebron showed in his prime. And because I see Lebron as a "slightly better" defensive player than KD, I have Lebron over him. Lebron can do other things besides score better than KD. Those being directing players, facilitating offense, passing, screening, drawing contact when attacking the rim (even though is flopping is horrendous not every single thing has always been a flop), jumping, rebounding, and running the floor. Again I'm thinking as a whole. Lebron on his first stint in Cleveland was amazing to me per my eyes.
"Lebron can do other things besides score better than KD. Those being directing players, facilitating offense, passing, screening, drawing contact when attacking the rim (even though is flopping is horrendous not every single thing has always been a flop), jumping, rebounding, and running the floor." LeBron definitely makes his teammates worse overall. He stops playing and pouts, if he doesn't have the ball. He hogs the ball from his co-stars, so that LeBron ends up with better stats himself. That's why he plays small forward instead of power forward, which would be his natural position. But he tries to recruit star big men, so that as he controls the ball, he can stop feeding them if they get too hot. And he sometimes doesn't let his co-stars to close important games, but chooses to lose instead. Every LeBron's teammate is constantly under pressure of getting traded or waived. Or about to be blamed for LeBron's mistakes. In fact not only players, but all organizational staff. "screening" LeBron almost never sets picks for his teammates, because he thinks everybody else is beneath him. "drawing contact when attacking the rim" LeBron almost never draws the contact, but nearly always causes the contact. Sometimes he simply throws an elbow to the defenders face, because the refs today are calling the plays the opposite way than the rulebook says, and LeBron gets awarded free throws for it. LeBron is the only player in the GoaT conversation, who keep calling himself the GoaT, without an interviewer pressing an answer from him. "Again I'm thinking as a whole." You're actually making stuff up, that LeBron doesn't do. "Lebron on his first stint in Cleveland was amazing to me per my eyes." Because he didn't have big enough co-stars, who he needs to hog the ball from.
Chirs made a very good argument for KD but i still don't think his top 10 all time! Definitely top 3-5 sf all time! I have him around top 12-16 all time. S& F rants lost that one vs Mel & Chris. KD is a very good defender near great & the zero all defensive team selection is due to the media not liking him.
I believe kd was a top 10 talent in his prime and at his peak but because of circumstantial things i cant put him in my top 10 its a shame though because im a fan of his game and would like to put him there, but objectively i cant do it
@@cherimoneeboone7127 lol alot of people can't separate how they feel about KD personally from how they judge him as a player and that ok because you don't become unbiased without some type of serious training
So I lied, I caught something Mel just said. Kevin Durant played great defense in GSW. Cool, but that's almost 10 years after he entered the league. Playing great defense for a stint, or couple years doesn't make you an all-time great defender in comparison to others who did that for their career. And defensive selections, DPOY, MVP, Chips are an accolade, not a stat.
@@StCropper no one said Durant was an all-time great defender. And no one said he only played good or great defense in golden state only. I said he played good to great defense starting in golden state has continued to play good to great defense after. This is what we call a straw man argument.
@@Mandownsports But Mel look at the flaws in saying that. You said he played good to great starting in GSW and after... The man wasn't playing over 60 games a season after GSW for like 6 years I think. He played like 70 last year. So you saying he been playing "great" defense for the last 7 years since GSW? Or he was playing "great" defense 10 years before GSW? I get straw man logic, but that's just... nah bruh lol
@@StCropper I'm saying Kevin Durant has been playing good to great defense since Golden State. Before that by his own admittance he was average at best. What are we actually debating here? I'm not saying that to make any other statement. KD defends well. Close statement
@@Mandownsports I think that’s it lol. You and Chris in the video was on the hill that KD was a great defender. Asking for top 15 great defenders lol. It was wild. I watch ya videos and comment like I’m part of the convo. Saying KD is good defender, defends well, is cool. But saying his defense is great, and calling him a great rebounder… nah bruh lol.
Dominique kind of cooked and exposed. If the panel was saying KD wasn't in top 10 (and I missed that episode), and now because Worthy said he's in the 7 range (or 6-10) and people switching now... looks incriminating lol.
@@StCropper two things: 1st we never in a previous episode said KD isn't top 10. I personally did an episode and said players in the debate that win and didn't stack the deck will get a higher ranking above those that won while stacking the deck. And I personally put KD at #13 on my list. Nobody switched, 2nd, nobody switched. I still have KD at #13. The argument they were making is that DURANT IS NOWHERE NEAR TOP 10. I of course disagree
Its literally a team game ..all this HE got swept off the court shit is stupid...his team got swept kd isnt playing 1v1 because if he was who would be better? ...who the beat player not team but player
Kd is the best player I’ve ever seen in my life. Y’all made it about basketball decision . Nothing to do with how he plays . Dumb arguement . Kds top 10
How does Steph Curry and the Warriors get a pass in the team stacking debate? True their core was built thru the draft and free agents, but lets not act like they didn't run to KD after choking in the finals and of course in 2021, the Nets didn't win because of injuries and KDs toe on the line..
The same old issue: Easily triggered, mentally soft, loud mouthed just trying to win an argument but never actually bringing facts: He’s secretly idolized Lebron and think Lebron is god’s daddy 😊
He said "we got 10 categories" lmao! But he right. There's great and there's good. Or there's elite and there's great when we talking about the GOATs or being Top 10. Some people getting to obsessed with "breaking things down" and that's unnecessary. Let's say this, Elite = Top 10, Great = 10-20, Good = (>) 20 lmao
Naw bro, there are great players that wouldn't make a top 100, you need to broaden that out, I would say top 50 is elite(that's 1% of all time players) I would say top 250 is great(5%) I would have to think how far down good would go... like top 1000(20%)
@@joshspears8507 lol nah I get you, but you breaking it down way further. Ultimately we are talking about the “greats of greats” or greatest of greats. You talking about top 100 and beyond 😂. Not disregarding, but there’s a reason they did top 75 and not 750.
@@penkima4923 CORRECTION: “Every other CASUAL’S top list. More like top 25-do yourself a favor and ACTUALLY WATCH games before 2010-I promise you’ll LEARN.
This the last comment I'm a drop on here unless I get replies. I really think the GOAT debate should be separated between "All-Time" and "Modern-Time". Guys did things in previous eras that still goes unrivaled. For instance, Rudy Gobert is considered a Top DPOY in this era. He's damn near the tallest guy in a small league. But compared to other Players of the past like Mutombo, The Admiral, Ben Wallace, Hakeem, KG, Dwight, Alonzo, Rodman, and players who didn't win DPOY like Shaq, is Gobert really that great of a defensive player in comparison or top 5? I think some things in any GOAT debate should have a time frame and it stays. All-Time GOAT debates are too biased. Like Lebron being number 1. If we say since 2010, I got Steph, Lebron, KD. Steph because of impact and influence. Lebron because he's got the rings, MVPs. KD because scoring-wise he's just unstoppable.
@@Mandownsports But peep this, If I say since 2000 Then I got Kobe, Duncan, Steph, Lebron, Wade, KD, Kawhi, Dirk, Jokic, Giannis. 10 years can change a lot in the broad scope of things.
"He's damn near the tallest guy in a small league." The average height in the league has stayed nearly the same since the '60's. "...is Gobert really that great of a defensive player in comparison or top 5?" Yes, he is. Any team he joins, he can transform them into the top defensive team in the league within one year.
@@penkima4923 “Players of the past like Mutombo, The Admiral, Ben Wallace, Hakeem, KG, Dwight, Alonzo, Rodman,…Shaq”. You really have Gobert being as great a defender as those names 😂. Good for you 👍🏿
@@penkima4923 you speaking on averages my guy. I am not. When I say “small” I’m talking small body boys. Hence why I gave examples. I talking more of mass, density, and muscle from the big guys.
Heads up just saying i know Elgin Baylor doesn't have a ring. But before Mj Baylor was a walking bucket like Mj . Baylor our rebounded 7 footers he averaged 38 pts and almost 19 rebounds for the season. But Havelcheck is not better than Kd . Happy Heaven Birthday, Elgin Baylor
Trying to say KD isn't an all-time great because of rebounds is probably the worse take I've heard all year. Especially when you put guys in your top 5 that rebounding at the same clip as him. Saying KD isn't an all-time great because he switched teams but you hold Shaq in high regard is just as hilarious and bad.
@@Mandownsports You combining things. I'm not saying KD isn't an all-time great because of rebounds, I'm saying he's not a great rebounder as a 6'10 guy in a small league compared to other great rebounders. I'm not saying KD isn't an all-time great because he switched teams, I'm saying KD isn't a top 10 compared to other greats of different eras. KD is a GREAT scorer, absolutely, up there with the best of them in my opinion. But I personally don't have him as an all-time great just because of his scoring or individual numbers. To me personally, without Steph, KD is in the realm of where Melo, T-Mac, and AI ended up. So there's a lot more to it. He's in all time great, but I don't have him top 10.
@@StCropper I know you didn't say that, I was referring to the people who implied that in the video. They basically said KD isn't a top 5 small forward because of rebounds, defense and cause he left the Warriors. Cmon dawg lol 😆
@@Mandownsports Got chu. I think scoring wise, KD is a top 5 Small forward. But all around with scoring not being the focus and all things considered, it's a debate. All-time great SFs (with due diligence and respect to eras) you have to say Lebron, Pippen, Bird, Baylor, Havlicek, Irving. I don't necessarily think KD. I think Kawhi and Dominique before him. But if it's focused on scoring the ball, then definitely KD lol. It's a debate for sure.
I love coming to these platforms to see the inconsistency in arguments😅. Yall love KD so much that the argument doesn’t make sense. The “eye test” is not conclusive, it’s biased. My opinion and your opinion will always be different, THATS WHY WE USE STATS! Women lie Men lie but numbers don’t. KD is not top 10, he’s not even better than Steph who has more MVPs and Rings than him.
Why do people continue to keep disrespecting Kyrie Irving? We don’t know if the Earth is round or flat so because he had a theory of the Earth being flat that means he’s an idiot let’s keep it real like Jamal Crawford said if you don’t have Colby in your top five that list is in valid.
I subscribed to ol' girl's channel after I saw her perfectly layout how the media was changing the requirements and had created LeBron's GOAT case, gotta unsubscribe after this, she is using to much assumption in her arguments the more I watch her, also how can you say somebody is the "best player I have ever seen", and not have them top 10, the deck stacker narratove strikes KD again, because it wasn't just a team signing the missing piece, which is what it actually was, I guess KD recruited a bunch of guys to come with him that I forgot about, guess Hakeem is disqualified for bringing in Clyde after they already won the year before, "he's a deck stacker" Dr. J don't get a mention, he brought in Moses and "stacked the deck" 🙄 that has always happened, the media just trying to make it seem like it's as bad as recruiting 2 other current prime top 15 players in the league, because that has only happened twice, both times... their false "king" was the culprit 💯 Sports and Fitness is talking out his ass on this one, out of almost 5,000 men that have played atleast a season in the league, only 235 have averaged 7+ RPG for their career, that is less than 5% of players for those wondering, and most of them are bigs(PF/C) 🤷♂️ he will not shut up long enough to here an argument, and he doesn't address the arguments, he calls them excuses or he changes them, we started out saying KD is a good defender, he starts comparing him to all time defenders 🙄 nobody ever said that he was on that level, if you listen more you would be able to keep up bro, and you mean the media who hate KD didn't vote for him on All Defensive teams... no, I'm shocked lol 😒 he is one of these "old heads" the youngsters be talking about that won't give a new guy nothin, he arguing with himself, I would ask him, "do you even need me for this conversation" god, he literally left while the caller was talking to him, you can't deal with a dude like that 💯 and now its offensive rebounds only, its just you have to jump to his next beef, its all emotional, and the caller that agreed with him, sounds just as wild, can't even name his top 10 without thinking about it, because the whole ammount of thought that went in it was, "I hate KD, I'm not gonna put him in my top 10", wow I hadn't made it to where he said Rick Barry 🤯
The guy that was yelling clearing doesn't wat h enough basketball if he think durant at best is a hood defender not getting voted is not on him theres plenty of people that just get voted just because
We are no better than the new school if when you speak about John Hav the argument is they never had enough teams but at the end of the day what did the league say NBA so all of them old school brothers what they did counts
KD somewhere #12-15. if he somehow leads a team to finals and wins. he can POSSIBLY be ahead of steph. for #11. i dont think he can crack the top 10 though. but who cares 😂 #11-20 is insanely/godly great anyway. Its insane how out of hand NBA fan community has become with all the fake narratives and history trying to be rewritten for personal agendas. Sad
"if he somehow leads a team to finals and wins. he can POSSIBLY be ahead of steph...Its insane how out of hand NBA fan community has become with all the fake narratives and history trying to be rewritten for personal agendas. Sad" Sounds like you're pushing your own fake narrative or personal agenda. The number of times a player can "lead" a team to the finals and win, isn't the only requirement for top-10 all timers. Otherwise Robert Horry would be in the top-10.
This is my personal opinion Kevin Durant is 610 so he’s playing a small for position. I guess he should be a averaging a double double just like Kevin Love average a double double Rush Wallace. He’s another you talking about you. Sit down and do your logistics the way you do, but what you eat don’t get the next man stomach full, these people have their own doing their own thing the right way and LeBron LeBron has a guard now because we talking about KD now you gonna tell my KD position LeBron not a good rebound and no way is he better than Dr. cause you forget, Dr. Jay is the original rock Park dudes KD went down there, but he didn’t play with Pete Kirkland and autumn people like that manyou gotta respect the game man nobody taking away from the slim reaper ain’t nobody taking nothing from the sniper but he should be playing. He should be averaging a double double.
"Kevin Durant is 610 so he’s playing a small for position" 6'10 would be tall for a small forward, but KD is probably 6'11, so he's definitely power forward height. He's played mostly small forward, because like you said, he's the Slim Reaper. "I guess he should be a averaging a double double just like Kevin Love average a double double Rush Wallace." Kevin Love plays PF, plays closer to the bucket, and is physically far stronger than KD. KD mostly plays SF, and near the perimeter. KD averages like 7 rebs a game, which is great for an SF.
Top Ten “Talent” size and skill level. He’s never driven the bus… and I do not hold the more to Golden State against him… the man would’ve won three straight… and he was the reason. Golden State wasn’t winning those titles without him~ IDC care what yall say about Russell Westbrook… KD couldn’t have won a championship with him.. that’s why he left.. Crazy Flat Earther~ relax, the Earth for damn sure ain’t a spinning globe hurtling through space… calling someone crazy is dismissive, and a horrible way to make a point about Kyrie… had nothing to do with basketball nor KD’s legacy as a player. He would be great and elite in any era… Offensive Talent alone you can’t name ten players who were better, more skilled, and excelled more in their role, than KD.
"He’s never driven the bus…" You mean win a championship with only one all-star teammate. Don't try to undermine others, if you're too scared to speak your mind yourself.
If you 6'10 I think like 8-10 is acceptable lol. I mean Luka average like 8 right now. You have guys like J Kidd and Russ who averaged 6-7. To me averaging like 5-6 is for your guards or guys under 6'7/6'8. Not to say averaging 6-7 is bad, but yal up there saying for a 6'10 guy that it's GREAT. I think yal tripping lol. It's decent or good. Now for a guard that's 6'6 and under to average 6-7 rebounds is GREAT. The league has also changed. There aren't many towers of 7 footers around. Now 6'10 is like the new 7 feet. So Robin is really right lol.
You don't judge rebounds based on height. It's based on position and were you play on the floor. Post players vs perimeter players. Plus what happened to actually watching the tape to see who is good at what and not watching the stats?
@@Mandownsports I watch tape lol but homie on the panel asked "what's a good number?". I was responding to that. And to your logic, you have guards who defied that logic. So if I say based on what I've seen that J.Kidd is a great all-time rebounder am I capping or nah? If I say J.Kidd is a great all-time rebounder for his position, that's a fact. Because among other PG's his numbers stand out by a great margin, and he was the tallest among them. Context matters, and I feel Robin is providing that in greater detail than comparing KD rebounding to Lebron's, and Lebron isn't considered a "GREAT" rebounder.
@@StCropper the statement "great rebounder" pertains to EVERY PLAYER. The statement "great rebounder for his position" is totally different. J Kidd is a great rebounder for his position but not a great rebounder when compared to Rodman, Dwight, Malone. Durant isn't a great rebounder but for his position he is at the very least a good rebounder. Robin's argument is that KD is a terrible rebounder. That's crazy
@@Mandownsports I think yal forced him to say terrible because yal saying Great was wild lol. I heard him agree to average/decent. I think if yal would of just said "KD isn't a great rebounder" everything would of been copacetic lol.
Robyn chill these Dudes be bugging on mad thing Durrant is only a Good Heip defender that's it one on one he's Average No he's not top ten in anything be physical he's gonna disappear
KD is not a top 10 player and he’s not the best scorer ever so stop it please. And he’s never been a good defender. Sport and Fitness Rants speaking facts.
I love this panel, I really do, but I think some things are off the wall that get said lol. KD is a great scorer no doubt. But him being TOP 5 or in the 6 -10... I need to see more evidence to support the claim. I don't see him over MJ, Kobe, Kareem, Magic, Bird, (Wilt & Russell if we going due diligence to "All-Time" over "Modern-Time"), Duncan, Olajuwon, Shaq, Steph, Lebron, Isaiah. And Getting outside of that 10 -12 now we get to names like AI, Kawhi, KD, Garnett, Dwade, Barkley. Just like Lebron Magically leaped names I don't see how KD does. Now if we talking strictly scorers I get it. He's in there with MJ, Kobe, AI, T-Mac, Melo, Kyrie, Luca now, Carter, Wilkins, Drexler. And I know I'm missing some names but this is fresh.
Out of the first set of names you listed, KD and Steph played on the same team, and KD turned out to be the better player. And KD has two FMVPs and a regular season MVP, compared to Zeke, who has 1 FMVP and 0 MVPs.
@@penkima4923 Zeke went through Mj, Celtics, and LA in the showtime era to get a ring… but yea, KD got 2 FMVPs when he jumped to a team that had went 73-9 so he can jump to the top. Amazing logic my guy 😂
@@StCropper "Zeke went through Mj" Zeke didn't go through anything. Zeke was part of a stacked team, while MJ played solo. "Celtics, and LA in the showtime era to get a ring" After the showtime era. Kareem was 41 years old, and played his last season in '89. Kareem was retired in '90. "KD got 2 FMVPs when he jumped to a team that had went 73-9 so he can jump to the top. Amazing logic my guy 😂" It was a weak move, but Steph was on that team, and KD still won the FMVPs. So, there is some logic, that you didn't understand.
@@penkima4923 😂😂😂 Boy you terrible. So 1989 Jordan was solo now. Didn’t have a team. No Horace Grant or Scottie Pippen. The same core pieces to the first 3-peat. MJ was quintessential, but no one wins alone. This guy! lol And I guess James Worthy isn’t worth a mention to you 😂 You started off with “it was a weak move”. Enough said right there.
@@penkima4923 and I shouldn’t have to say this, but I will. A team being “stacked” is very subjective. When Lebron went to Miami they were “stacked”. KD to golden state… “stacked”. I’ve never heard anyone refer to the Zeke’s Pistons as “stacked”. 😂
See they not old school they got to be in the mid 30s male and the other guy up in the corner. I don’t know his name sorry about that fan but I love y’all show. I wish I was on it because y’all debate hard body and I love it. You even got the females in there and they noticed stuff, but you guys are the new generation man LeBron have you ever seen him checking checking Alden play were you around when Dr. Jay were playing when they had the ABA?
Not in MY book and I tell You Why?there are to Many players records Speaks for the Selves 1 MJ 2 Kareem 3 Kobe. 4 Wilt. 5. Harkeem. 6. DrJ. 7. Magic. 8 Bird. 9 Bill Russell. 10 Oskar Robinson are true greats Standing at the gate👍🤓 LeBron Jerry West Shaq and Tim Duncan rest MY Case🎩*
@@BIGDAWG-z4t Bro then Got Swept 2 times since he left curry, most ppl still wondering why he can’t get it done without him Kobe got it done without Shaq 2 times Kd only good on Olympics and a loaded gsw team he can’t do it without Steph …
And pippen was never a number 1 option that lead his team to a chip curry had a chip before that fraud and he won a chip as a number 1 after that fraud pippin never done that, Kd need another Alpha number 1 to win championship curry won with Poole and Wiggins as his 2nd and third option role players
@@HuddiniMagic WHAT THAT MEAN 🤷🏾♂️...LUKA , JOKER , KOBE BEEN SWEPT SO THEY SUK....ARE YOU WHITE BECAUSE ITS CLEAR WHITEMEN ARE JEALOUS OF BLK ATHLETES TODAY .......HOW IS THERE ANY GOATS TODAY IF A BLKMAN AINT ONE 😂😂
@@HuddiniMagic DURANT A LEAGUE SCORING LEADER , WE NEED SEPERATION FROM THESE FAKE AMERICANS, THEN WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THEM NOT PUTTING A ENTIRE FOOTBALL OR BASKETBALL TEAM TOGETHER THEY REPORT YOU .......LEWHITEMAN 🌈
@@penkima4923 I can see from your previous comments that you don’t quite grasp underlying concepts unless they’re stated. Hence why you need to quote so heavily just to formulate responses. It’s okay though. I understand you 👍🏿
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I like the new guy (Robin). When asked to make a list he said I don't need to do that. He took it straight to "Stomp the Yard' and said... I don't step... I battle. Y'all gonna have to step that game up and that's always a good thing
Lebron vs Durant 17 finals 33-12-10 if that’s locking up That’s crazy
That girl don’t know sports she knows narratives
And feelings cause everything she said is based off feelings..
(*Saw this somewhere and had to copy & paste)…
Michael Jordan in 13 Full Seasons:
6 championships
6 Finals MVPs
5 MVPs
10 Scoring Titles
9 First Team All-NBA Defense
1 DPOY award
3 Steals Champion
82 game seasons: 9
1 all star teammate
Lebron and Durant in 37 full seasons combined:
6 Championships
6 Finals MVPs
5 MVPs
5 Scoring Titles
5 First Team All-NBA Defense
O DPOY awards
O Steals Champion
82 Game seasons combined: 2
14 combined all star teammates
Nuff said
FACTS MY BOY!!!
I think just based off eye test KD has an argument for top 10. If Im assesing accolades and accomplishments then the list does indeed become sliding scale because the rules changes alters who is successful and what is required for that success.
The deck stackers shouldn't be even top 50 no one in this era should even be mentioned this game is weak now
@@yoba7115 oh ok
Top 10:
MJ
Kareem
Wilt
Kobe
Magic
Duncan
Bird
Hakeem
Shaq
Russell
@@TheNuGeekz good list
@@Mandownsports 🫡
If Lebron and Kobe not in your Top 10, then you don’t know basketball….at all. The fact that yall allow her on the panel to spew non basketball related narratives makes no sense. She also said they stopped playing defense after 2004, the disrespect towards the game is insane. This is not Basketball Talk Anymore 😂
Be better next time
I don't respect any top ten that don't have Kobe and Lebron in it.
KD IS DEFINITELY TOP 10
I have him 13th all-time
@Mandownsports me too I'll agree with 13 not top 10
And the defensive talk... I couldn't believe that. I said it in live premiere chat but great defenders I think of instantly are Raja Bell, Bruce Bowen, Andre Igudola, Tony Allen, Kawhi Leonard, Andre Kirilenko, Gerald Wallace, Byron Russell, Ron Artest, hell even Draymond Green. I'm not even really trying to a deep dive to the real greats of all time. But to call KD a "GREAT" defender when defense was some guys specialty and you saw it and it was evident is borderline disrespectful. Call him a good defender all day, but GREAT among other GREATS, I don't see that. Even at his position specifically. The GREATEST thing about him defensively is his height. But that's not all that makes a GREAT defender to me. It's a plus though definitely.
KD isn't a great defender, he is between good and great. A little better than good but not quite great
@@Mandownsports His height puts him between good and great lol. He's good. We've seen to many greats man. Guys can't just be inserted that easily because they play in a smaller and less physical league. But even then, not a single all defensive selection at no point in his career.
No 1st team, 2nd team, 3rd team lol. Keep it a buck.
@@StCropper Kenyon Martin is a great defender as well. He doesn't have a single all-defensive selection either.
@@Mandownsports I don't say Kenyon Martin is a great defender lol. Good and definitely great paint presence. A rim protector. I like the point you made, but If anyone ever asked me about great defenders, K Mart name would not come to mind. Keeping it real.
@@Mandownsports And just in case you try pick me apart. K Mart great paint presence and rim protector but compared to names like Shaq, KG, Olajuwon, Mutumbo, Scottie, Rodman, Ben Wallace, Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Alonzo, Kirilenko, and more...
K Mart is not a great defender to me.
Nor are we putting him in the GOAT debate lmao.
Bro in the top left was getting cooked. All his points, and his rational were foolish lol. Dude in the middle is HEAD AND SHOULDERS than the rest. Mad respect to his knowledge of the game 👏🏽
Quick Answer....No KD is not in the GOAT conversation...just like Bron isnt in it as well. Top 10.....MJ, Kareem, Wilt, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Kobe, Hakeem, Russell, Shaq.
It's funny because everyone else says lebron is in the goat debate. Yall opinion don't matter 🤣🤣🤣
@@jayp1767 Nah they actually don't. It all started when Bron said that silly shid on his podcast. But realistically if you look at his game....with the amount of glaring holes in it....its absolutely no way he's in the GOAT debate. Bad FT shooter, weak rebounder, quit on his team numerous times, team hopping, superteam building, bad fundamentals, flopper, travels like it's going out of style. His only real claim to fame is....he can pass. Fckn hilarious 😂. & he's on PEDs....& once he retires & it comes out..he's gonna drop out of the top 75.
@@crharper25 why you sound so pressed bud🤣🤣and with all that said he's the number 1 leading scorer in nba history, top 5 in assist and rebounds all time, 4 time champ/fmvp, 4 regular season mvp,20 all nba teams the list goes on and on. Now go cry in the corner somewhere 🤣 🤣🤣🤣
@@jayp1767 bro nobody's crying. We've all seen much better without the constant media manipulation.
@@jayp1767you fool ass Brononites will never get that hanging around for a long time like a bad smell does not make you the GOAT huh, especially with all the gifts he gets, 4 dudes have not gotten a pay raise the last 4 years because they are gonna give LeBron an All NBA 3rd team... wether he deserves it or not, just like Melo don't have his ROY because it was gifted to LeBron, and AD don't have his Finals MVP or IST MVP, because they were gifted to LeBron, just like Steph don't have an Olympic MVP, because before the last 2 games they had already voted to gift it to LeBron 💯 but cry about the DPOY in 2013 😂
Top-7 specifically. And btw it always gets me why everyone says top something instead of saying the position itself. I mean, top seven could mean he's second or third too, or even one.
Not even close. Saying KD is in the top 10 is like saying KD is elite on defense.
😂
@@bigbromcgee7118 No, it's not. It's not, like, saying anything about defense.
I believe Durant is in the Top 10 scorer of all-time
I mean if we are going strictly off the eye test, this is not too far fetched. The eye test should always be the main indicator. Take your emotions out of it and don’t worship the accolades so much. If I’m a recruiter for a team and if I’m invited to watch all these greats in a scrimmage, I’m definitely picking KD! He’s a great plug in player, you don’t even need him to lead. 6’11 with a handle, great shooting, vicious mid range, solid defense, and he can play off ball. He can be the main guy or he can adapt to play within a system. It doesn’t get any better than that. He may even be better than Bron. I think the obsession with stats and accolades today is taking away the true essence of the game. For example, Carmelo Anthony son just said that Paul George is his Goat. While that may sound crazy to many, the kid is referring to his GAME! Eye test based no resume.
"The eye test should always be the main indicator. Take your emotions out of it and don’t worship the accolades so much."
Statistics should be, and are, the main indicator. The eye test is more prone to emotions than statistics.
"For example, Carmelo Anthony son just said that Paul George is his Goat. While that may sound crazy to many, the kid is referring to his GAME! Eye test based no resume."
That's probably a completely one-sided take. It's based solely on the eye test on PG-13. Because he doesn't have close to the stats or the accolades as the more common names in the top-10, or even top-50. Thus, having PG-13 as the GoaT really is a bad take.
Sport’s Rants is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT IN THIS ARGUMENT. LeBALCO is an AVERAGE rebounder at best!
Wrong. Seven rebounds per game is good to great rebounding for a small forward, not average.
@@penkima4923 I’m sure it was the BALCO part that tipped you off that I was talking about Lebron right? 🤣. C’mon, admit your Kang is an INSECURE CHEATING NARCISSIST. 🤣😂🤷🏾♂️
@@bktruth9804 Calling him insecure, cheating narcissist, is kinda ironic, because you just tried to call his rebounding worse than how it actually is.
TOP 30 ALL TIME:
1. Michael Jordan - the greatest player and the greatest career in NBA history. Most dominant offensive force and one of the games greatest defenders. Jordan is one of the few players to build a franchise from nothing to dynasty. A real life OP video-game character.
6x Champ 6x FMVP 5x MVP 1x DPOY
2. Bill Russell - the greatest winner and greatest defensive force in NBA and sports history. A legend on/off court. The key to NBA first dynasty.
11x Champ 5x FMVP 5x MVP
3. Magic Johnson - the great PG ever (so far…). A position-less player who was the best playmaker, ever. REVOLUTIONIZED his position and saved the NBA. Had it not been for his disease who knows how much higher he’d be considered on an alltime list.
5x Champ 3x FMVP 3xMVP
4. LeBron James - the greatest longevity in sports history. At his peak, he amassed some of the greatest individual seasons ever. Playoff King. One of the most dominant forces ever and the greatest all round player. Still.. counting.
SCARY.
4x Champ 4x FMVP 4x MVP
5. Tim Duncan - best PF ever. One of the most fundamentally sound players ever. Played both ends at the highest level for 15 seasons.
5x Champ 3x FMVP 2x MVP
6. Kareem Abdul Jabar - owner of the most dominant go-to move on offense. The HOOK. The previous scoring leader and lead all points for 4 decades. The greatest BASKETBALL career ever.
Prep to Pro.
6x Champ 2x FMVP 6x MVP
7. Kobe Bryant - see number 1 and dilute the athleticism and physical intangibles and that’s what you got.
Arguably the greatest warrior in NBA history. A winner supreme and the games wisest sage. MAMBA.
5x Champ 2x FMVP 1x MVP
8. Shaquille O’Neal - the most dominant ever. The immovable object/unstoppable force. Shaq was the definition of dominance. One of the few who at their peak might’ve had no comparison. Yes, greater than anyone.
4x Champ 3x FMVP 1x MVP
9. Larry Bird - maybe the most legendary on the list. Precursor to Jokic but better. One of the most skilled & clutch players ever.
In any sport. If not for Larry’s back quitting on him, who knows how much higher on the list he’d be
3x Champ 2x FMVP 3x MVP
10. Hakeem Olajuwon - back to back.
The best of the mid90’s and second best player in the era. Hakeem is like Russell but with AllNBA offensive ability.
2x Champ 2x FMVP 1x MVP
11. Wilt Chamberlain - one of the games most prolific scorers. Arguably it’s greatest defender as well. The man could do it all. Even lead the league in assist at 7”2. Wilt IS unparalleled.
GOAT athlete.
2x Champ 2x FMVP 4x MVP
12. Steph Curry - the games most prolific shooter and one of its greatest scorers. REVOLUTIONIZED the game forever. STILL GOING.
4x Champ 1x FMVP 2x MVP
13. Isaiah Thomas - ZEKE. CP3 before CP3 but nastier and meaner. A warrior and one of the games greatest strategist and generals. Quietly a top5 passer.
2x Champ 2x FMVP
14. Oscar Robertson - the greatest all around basketball player ever. Could do everything at a AllNBA level.
Changed the way players were interpreted and influenced generations.
1x Champ 2x MVP
15. Kevin Durant - the Slim Reaper is likely the most ideal offensive weapon ever. Can hit from anywhere, anytime over anyone. Hard to beat and impossible to match that level of offensive dominance.
2x Champ 2x FMVP 1x MVP
16. Julius Erving - The good Dr., the FIRST MJ (before Magic & Jordan), The icon and face of BOTH leagues that saved the game in the 70’s. Kareem was the best but Doc was a close 2nd. Underrated statistical brilliance. Was like a 6’7-6’8 Giannis but with a better jump shot.
3x Champ (1 NBA) 2x FMVP 4x MVP (1 NBA)
17.. Moses Malone - CHAIRMAN OF DA BOARDS. Arguably the best board getter… ever. Only Wilt, Russell, Rodman and Thurmond belong in the same discussion. Moses lead his people to the promise land more than once but was able to claim immortality in the early 80’s. His team lead by the dynamic duo of he and Doc dominated the league. Before Lakers v. Celtics it was 76ers v. Celtics-Lakers.
1x Champ 1x FMVP 3xMVP
18. John Havlicek - the GREAT one. MJ is 6-0.
Ole Johnny is 8-0. The offensive force off the bench or starting that lead the dynastic Celtics to all 8. Early in his career he was akin to Jordan Poole role on Warriors 22’ team but better at everything but the 3 ball.
Then in the late 60’s-70’s he sat in captains seat. His career is a unique mix.
Played like Pippen with elite perimeter shooting/scoring, early career was early Kobe-esque, late career MJ/Kobe-esque.
John’s game rose in the playoffs.
8x Champ 1x FMVP (likely 4x)
19. Giannis Antetokounmpo - it’s getting freaky… GreekMan is literally on the ride to potentially threatening Tim’s best PF title.
If he can add a couple more rings to his already HOF profile he will likely be the new PF or TOP 5 player. Yea. THAT GOOD.
1x Champ 1x FMVP 2x MVP 1x DPOY
20. Jerry West - The LOGO. Steph Curry before Steph. The man that built the LA franchise along Baylor post Mikan era.
Jerry West was the blueprint skill base for players like Kobe, MJ, TMac, etc
At 6’2-6’3 he torched his opponents his entire career and dropped plenty of dimes.
The ORIGINAL combo guard. So damn great he LOST and still won FMVP… case closed.
1x Champ 1x FMVP
21. Nikola Jokic - the Joker is no damn joke.
Genuinely a candidate for potential GOAT if his career pans out in the extreme positive like that of the top 10. Jokic is in a unique place being the greatest passing big statically NBA history (excluding Magic).
If Jokic finds a way to fit more jewelry in his fingers, we might have to have a real discussion about that greatest Center of all time discussion. Yes. Potentially a top 5 player alert.
1x MVP 1x FMVP 3x MVP (should’ve been 3 consecutive but you know
22. Rick Barry - The ACTUAL “White Mamba”. Just predated the black one… Barry was the answer up until 85’ when you asked who the best SF ever. His game was similar to West but 6’7 and a better FT%. Controversial, cerebral and iconic.
Had so much game he had to share what was left with his sons…
1x Champ 1x FMVP
23. Kevin Garnett - The Big Ticket. The 00’ Giannis. In every way but he had a better jumper midrange and beyond. KG was a monstrosity on OFF/DEF in his prime much like his modern comparison.
Led the TWolves to relevance and led the 08’ Celtics to a chip. Truly the BIG TICKET.
1x Champ 1x FMVP 1x MVP
24. Dirk Nowitzki - DIGGLER. The one and only. The German Bird. THE Maverick. Dirk is one of the most beloved, iconic and acclaimed players ever. The 00’s stretch big supreme.
Dirk was able to take the Mavs to immortality over 11’ Heat in arguably the most surprising run ever.
Only Dirk. Forever the DIGGLER.
Arguably, the GOAT Euro player.
1x Champ 1x FMVP 1x MVP
25. Bob Pettit - Big Blue was the first stretch 4 in the games history. That’s for starters. Pettit was a tenacious rebounder and highly skilled scorer.
He was much akin to K. Love of his era but in better shape and played defense. Think a smaller Dirk who grabbed boards like Love but in the 50’s-60’s era. Not only that, much like Dirk, Pettit lead a historic upset over Russell’s Celtics. A true champ.
1x Champ 1x FMVP 2x MVP
26. Dwayne Wade - The Flash.
Wade County. The greatest Heat in NBA history. Wade is arguably the best defensive player at his position and easily too3 (MJ, Kobe). Led the Heat to a title in 06’ in historic fashion against Dirks Mavs.
Then winning a couple more as LBJ’s Pippen. His career was like Kobe’s… in reverse. Wade’s early injuries reduced his maximum career output but yet here he is… says a ton.
3x Champ 1x FMVP
27. Elgin Baylor - The PROTOTYPE.
Before West, Julius, Thompson, Wilkins, MJ, Hardaway, Kobe, Carter, TMac, Wade, Ant etc
There was Elgin Baylor. The first Air, the first Mamba, the first Half Man/Amazing, Flash etc
Baylor spearheaded an era that hardly wanted his talents there but had no other choice but to be in awe of it.
Think Harden, in shape but not as good of a playmaker, twice the rebounder and a better defender.
That’s Elgin.
*left a season before historic LAL title win
28. David Robinson - The Admiral.
The USA’s biggest weapon in the 90’s was also one of the greatest ever.
Made the spurs relevant pre-Duncan and post. Has some of the greatest seasons statistically. Think Giannis but 7’2 with a lefty and 15 footer plus an even better defender.
2x Champ 1x MVP
29. Karl Malone - the Mailman was LBJ minus the handles and vision.
King of the pick n roll.
1x MVP
30. Charles Barkley - The Round Mound of Rebound was the Tasmanian devil in a basketball jersey.
Prime 25 5 13 guy.
Impact everywhere he went.
OG DREAMTEAM member by the way…
1x MVP
30 (?) Clyde Drexler - The Glide. One of the most useful all around talents in nba history. One of the greatest two way players ever. Helped every squad he went to become a contender.
1x Champ
* HONORABLE MENTION:
McHale, Nash, Harden, Parker, CP3, Stockton, Walton, Payton, Westbrook, Drexler, Ewing, Sam Jones, Cousy, Pierce, Iverson, McAdoo, Frazier, Unsled, Reed, Webber, English, A. Davis, Kawhi
^GIVE HONEST FEEDBACK CRITIQUE ATTEMPTING A PERFECT TOP30 list
@@conduitofthegospeldarrellb9154 great list! Steph is too high though. Oscar and Isaiah are still above him by position and KD is above him overall
This is very simple. Rate KD basketball skills, without the awards as you do, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Dominique Wilkins, etc, etc.
@@BeachgirlKarli KD all day
As a 36 year old man that has been watching NBA since the 1991-92 season's playoffs(I was 4)
KD is the guy that made me see what the youngsters meant about "old heads" hate every modern NBA player, because the whole "he couldn't beat the Warriors, so he joined them" narrative, and that's all it is, a narrative, because that is not how it went down, I live in Oklahoma, I'm a Thunder fan, I remember that shit vividly, the media has brain washed everyone to hate this man, what really happened? We had one max contract to give(Thunder), we gave it to Russell Westbrook, even though KD was clearly our best player, we asked him to take 2nd best money, meanwhile, the team that just beat him and us as a team, but lost in the Finals, brings the owner, the PBO, the coach and all the best players to the Hamptons, fly you out and tell you, "we'll give you the max, and a couple of rings to go with it" he woulda been stupid to not take that deal, he left my team and I didn't even blame him lol, then he got those rings as the guy, and ever since they have painted him as a bus rider and not a leader, despite the fact that everyone, including Steph was looking at KD like "what are you gonna do" when it came time to close 😂 and he win both Finals MVPs even trying to give the second one to Steph, but ignore all that I guess 🙄 why would they do that? Because in their eyes(the LeMedia) KD cost the golden boy two rings, and now they sound ridiculous calling their "king" the GOAT, that is why, in closing, I have KD #12 on my all time list, behind Mike, Russell, Kobe, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Wilt, Hakeem, LeBron, Duncan and Shaq in that order, he isn't now, nor do I think he will make it into THE GOAT debate, but if someone has him top 10... that's not outrageous, he's probably gonna be in there when he is done 💯
@@joshspears8507 I have him 13th so we have him close to top 10
I have him top 10
Anytime you are considered as the best scorer in nba history or top 2 atleast
It's really easy to see how much respect he gets from his peers not just this generation but even the old heads
His move to the warriors that's how stuff works now things evolve and players got more power now
Is that a good thing or a bad thing I think it is what it is
@@samiyoli I can dig it
@@Mandownsports Kobe was like he's the one player he couldn't figure out and this coming from KOBE to me that has to be one of the greatest complements ever from someone that's really respected in the NBA circles
@@samiyoli he sure did say that
Great show have fitness rants back on 😊
KD went krazy in 21. Giannis, Holiday & Middleton was getting embarrassed by KD.
Lmao sike
@@SERGIO-rr8ig game 7 ot fighting one man is not debatable
I only go off of skill set i dont go off rings because thats a team accomplishment ..player for player kd is top 3 for me...jordan, Hakeem, durant ...to often team success is brought up judging a player which is flawed in itself ...winning is a team effort ..theres far too many times a star player did enough to win but didn't have the right pieces...
Jordan, Hakeem, durant. ...i simply use the roll the ball on the court method and see who's who.. bringing up accomplishments and accolades becomes a little flawed too many because ther3w far too mnay times a player was robbed of an accolade...and winning is a team accomplishment...but what can the player do not team but player ...since we're talking about greatest player ever not team ...theres nothing u can do with kd but be overly physical and hope the ref dont call it like they did in that Boston series
Robin flame 🔥 this conversation 😂respectfully
If we strip away accolades, as in what a player contributes to team success and being decorated, then I have KD over Lebron as a scorer no doubt. But I can't take away the defensive ability Lebron showed in his prime. And because I see Lebron as a "slightly better" defensive player than KD, I have Lebron over him. Lebron can do other things besides score better than KD. Those being directing players, facilitating offense, passing, screening, drawing contact when attacking the rim (even though is flopping is horrendous not every single thing has always been a flop), jumping, rebounding, and running the floor. Again I'm thinking as a whole. Lebron on his first stint in Cleveland was amazing to me per my eyes.
"Lebron can do other things besides score better than KD. Those being directing players, facilitating offense, passing, screening, drawing contact when attacking the rim (even though is flopping is horrendous not every single thing has always been a flop), jumping, rebounding, and running the floor."
LeBron definitely makes his teammates worse overall. He stops playing and pouts, if he doesn't have the ball. He hogs the ball from his co-stars, so that LeBron ends up with better stats himself. That's why he plays small forward instead of power forward, which would be his natural position. But he tries to recruit star big men, so that as he controls the ball, he can stop feeding them if they get too hot. And he sometimes doesn't let his co-stars to close important games, but chooses to lose instead.
Every LeBron's teammate is constantly under pressure of getting traded or waived. Or about to be blamed for LeBron's mistakes. In fact not only players, but all organizational staff.
"screening"
LeBron almost never sets picks for his teammates, because he thinks everybody else is beneath him.
"drawing contact when attacking the rim"
LeBron almost never draws the contact, but nearly always causes the contact. Sometimes he simply throws an elbow to the defenders face, because the refs today are calling the plays the opposite way than the rulebook says, and LeBron gets awarded free throws for it.
LeBron is the only player in the GoaT conversation, who keep calling himself the GoaT, without an interviewer pressing an answer from him.
"Again I'm thinking as a whole."
You're actually making stuff up, that LeBron doesn't do.
"Lebron on his first stint in Cleveland was amazing to me per my eyes."
Because he didn't have big enough co-stars, who he needs to hog the ball from.
Chirs made a very good argument for KD but i still don't think his top 10 all time! Definitely top 3-5 sf all time! I have him around top 12-16 all time.
S& F rants lost that one vs Mel & Chris. KD is a very good defender near great & the zero all defensive team selection is due to the media not liking him.
I agree with all of that. I have him 13th
I believe kd was a top 10 talent in his prime and at his peak but because of circumstantial things i cant put him in my top 10 its a shame though because im a fan of his game and would like to put him there, but objectively i cant do it
@@vidalmoore3537 yall really have to take a step back and listen to what yall saying
Dude is a kd hater lol
@@cherimoneeboone7127 lol alot of people can't separate how they feel about KD personally from how they judge him as a player and that ok because you don't become unbiased without some type of serious training
So I lied, I caught something Mel just said. Kevin Durant played great defense in GSW. Cool, but that's almost 10 years after he entered the league. Playing great defense for a stint, or couple years doesn't make you an all-time great defender in comparison to others who did that for their career. And defensive selections, DPOY, MVP, Chips are an accolade, not a stat.
@@StCropper no one said Durant was an all-time great defender. And no one said he only played good or great defense in golden state only. I said he played good to great defense starting in golden state has continued to play good to great defense after. This is what we call a straw man argument.
@@Mandownsports But Mel look at the flaws in saying that. You said he played good to great starting in GSW and after... The man wasn't playing over 60 games a season after GSW for like 6 years I think. He played like 70 last year.
So you saying he been playing "great" defense for the last 7 years since GSW?
Or he was playing "great" defense 10 years before GSW?
I get straw man logic, but that's just... nah bruh lol
@@Mandownsports can get jiggy with that lol
@@StCropper I'm saying Kevin Durant has been playing good to great defense since Golden State. Before that by his own admittance he was average at best. What are we actually debating here? I'm not saying that to make any other statement. KD defends well. Close statement
@@Mandownsports I think that’s it lol. You and Chris in the video was on the hill that KD was a great defender. Asking for top 15 great defenders lol. It was wild. I watch ya videos and comment like I’m part of the convo. Saying KD is good defender, defends well, is cool. But saying his defense is great, and calling him a great rebounder… nah bruh lol.
She’s right. There needs to be an asterisk on everything after 2010.
EXACTLY WHEN did KD play this IMAGINARY Defense they’re talking about!? 😂
You don’t know ball stfu
You didn't watch Warriors basketball, did you.
If you don’t watch basketball just say that
Dominique kind of cooked and exposed. If the panel was saying KD wasn't in top 10 (and I missed that episode), and now because Worthy said he's in the 7 range (or 6-10) and people switching now... looks incriminating lol.
@@StCropper two things: 1st we never in a previous episode said KD isn't top 10. I personally did an episode and said players in the debate that win and didn't stack the deck will get a higher ranking above those that won while stacking the deck. And I personally put KD at #13 on my list. Nobody switched, 2nd, nobody switched. I still have KD at #13. The argument they were making is that DURANT IS NOWHERE NEAR TOP 10. I of course disagree
@@Mandownsports okay I got chu. It didn't seem like anyone opposed when she said it. Thanks for clarifying that fasho tho.
@@StCropper that's because we were confused. Lol
Its literally a team game ..all this HE got swept off the court shit is stupid...his team got swept kd isnt playing 1v1 because if he was who would be better? ...who the beat player not team but player
KD didn’t scapegoat Russ…he got his rings to shut media up.
@@vanessagrayman2194 I agree
Kd is the best player I’ve ever seen in my life. Y’all made it about basketball decision . Nothing to do with how he plays . Dumb arguement . Kds top 10
damn mel u was cutting em off alot bro. just saying gotta let em get they point across
I barely talked lol 😆
How does Steph Curry and the Warriors get a pass in the team stacking debate? True their core was built thru the draft and free agents, but lets not act like they didn't run to KD after choking in the finals and of course in 2021, the Nets didn't win because of injuries and KDs toe on the line..
Steph don't get a pass in my book
Mine either, but everybody else is giving Steph and the warriors a pass while penalizing KD..
@@dontaerussell3397 I agree
The earth flat
KD is not even top 50 all time Defensive players. WTF is anyone saying KD is “good or elite in Defense”.
He is definitely a good defender
@@Mandownsports His best trait is, he doesn't pick up too many fouls. Otherwise he's average, which means that overall he's average.
The same old issue: Easily triggered, mentally soft, loud mouthed just trying to win an argument but never actually bringing facts: He’s secretly idolized Lebron and think Lebron is god’s daddy 😊
He said "we got 10 categories" lmao! But he right. There's great and there's good. Or there's elite and there's great when we talking about the GOATs or being Top 10. Some people getting to obsessed with "breaking things down" and that's unnecessary. Let's say this, Elite = Top 10, Great = 10-20, Good = (>) 20 lmao
True
Naw bro, there are great players that wouldn't make a top 100, you need to broaden that out, I would say top 50 is elite(that's 1% of all time players) I would say top 250 is great(5%) I would have to think how far down good would go... like top 1000(20%)
@@joshspears8507 you are so kind and sweet lol. I get you… but nah bruh lol.
@@StCropper so if you better than 4/5 people to ever do it, that isn't at least good? 😒
@@joshspears8507 lol nah I get you, but you breaking it down way further. Ultimately we are talking about the “greats of greats” or greatest of greats. You talking about top 100 and beyond 😂. Not disregarding, but there’s a reason they did top 75 and not 750.
Robin is annoying as hell Mel, he wanna do all the talking 😂😂😂
Lol he good people though
@@MandownsportsLol yeah I'm pretty sure he is. Maybe he'll get his own podcast so there's no one to debate with 😂😂😂
@@MandownsportsOh nevermind, I heard him say he has his own lol
Robin has to be muted sometimes
Lol
💙KD🔥
Homeboy gotta take a chill pill maaan. How does he work out issues with his girl? Calm down Bro, you're messing up the show!!!
@@UriahNyah6 lol 😆
Man down man down rob is that cowboy spitting
KD in the top ten is CRAZY TALK ! 😂🤣
He's top-15 on every other top-list, so top-10 is far from crazy talk.
@@penkima4923 CORRECTION: “Every other CASUAL’S top list. More like top 25-do yourself a favor and ACTUALLY WATCH games before 2010-I promise you’ll LEARN.
@@bktruth9804 Bet you can't name 25 players better than KD from before 2010.
NO PLAYER WHO IS NOT A 2-WAY ELITE PLAYER WITH STATS AND ACCOLADES BACKING BOTH OFFENSE AND DEFENSE CAN BE IN ANY TOP 10.
Thank you
This the last comment I'm a drop on here unless I get replies. I really think the GOAT debate should be separated between "All-Time" and "Modern-Time". Guys did things in previous eras that still goes unrivaled. For instance, Rudy Gobert is considered a Top DPOY in this era. He's damn near the tallest guy in a small league. But compared to other Players of the past like Mutombo, The Admiral, Ben Wallace, Hakeem, KG, Dwight, Alonzo, Rodman, and players who didn't win DPOY like Shaq, is Gobert really that great of a defensive player in comparison or top 5? I think some things in any GOAT debate should have a time frame and it stays. All-Time GOAT debates are too biased. Like Lebron being number 1. If we say since 2010, I got Steph, Lebron, KD. Steph because of impact and influence. Lebron because he's got the rings, MVPs. KD because scoring-wise he's just unstoppable.
@@StCropper fair enough 👌
@@Mandownsports But peep this, If I say since 2000 Then I got Kobe, Duncan, Steph, Lebron, Wade, KD, Kawhi, Dirk, Jokic, Giannis. 10 years can change a lot in the broad scope of things.
"He's damn near the tallest guy in a small league."
The average height in the league has stayed nearly the same since the '60's.
"...is Gobert really that great of a defensive player in comparison or top 5?"
Yes, he is. Any team he joins, he can transform them into the top defensive team in the league within one year.
@@penkima4923 “Players of the past like Mutombo, The Admiral, Ben Wallace, Hakeem, KG, Dwight, Alonzo, Rodman,…Shaq”.
You really have Gobert being as great a defender as those names 😂. Good for you 👍🏿
@@penkima4923 you speaking on averages my guy. I am not. When I say “small” I’m talking small body boys. Hence why I gave examples. I talking more of mass, density, and muscle from the big guys.
Heads up just saying i know Elgin Baylor doesn't have a ring. But before Mj Baylor was a walking bucket like Mj . Baylor our rebounded 7 footers he averaged 38 pts and almost 19 rebounds for the season. But Havelcheck is not better than Kd . Happy Heaven Birthday, Elgin Baylor
Oh and Elgin Baylor was only 6'5 😂
Shout out to Elgin Baylor
So all KD shots are 3's? and he's the only one taking shots now?? Chris cooking himself right now.
Trying to say KD isn't an all-time great because of rebounds is probably the worse take I've heard all year. Especially when you put guys in your top 5 that rebounding at the same clip as him.
Saying KD isn't an all-time great because he switched teams but you hold Shaq in high regard is just as hilarious and bad.
@@Mandownsports You combining things. I'm not saying KD isn't an all-time great because of rebounds, I'm saying he's not a great rebounder as a 6'10 guy in a small league compared to other great rebounders.
I'm not saying KD isn't an all-time great because he switched teams, I'm saying KD isn't a top 10 compared to other greats of different eras.
KD is a GREAT scorer, absolutely, up there with the best of them in my opinion. But I personally don't have him as an all-time great just because of his scoring or individual numbers.
To me personally, without Steph, KD is in the realm of where Melo, T-Mac, and AI ended up. So there's a lot more to it. He's in all time great, but I don't have him top 10.
@@StCropper I know you didn't say that, I was referring to the people who implied that in the video. They basically said KD isn't a top 5 small forward because of rebounds, defense and cause he left the Warriors. Cmon dawg lol 😆
@@Mandownsports Got chu. I think scoring wise, KD is a top 5 Small forward. But all around with scoring not being the focus and all things considered, it's a debate. All-time great SFs (with due diligence and respect to eras) you have to say Lebron, Pippen, Bird, Baylor, Havlicek, Irving. I don't necessarily think KD. I think Kawhi and Dominique before him. But if it's focused on scoring the ball, then definitely KD lol.
It's a debate for sure.
I love coming to these platforms to see the inconsistency in arguments😅. Yall love KD so much that the argument doesn’t make sense. The “eye test” is not conclusive, it’s biased. My opinion and your opinion will always be different, THATS WHY WE USE STATS! Women lie Men lie but numbers don’t. KD is not top 10, he’s not even better than Steph who has more MVPs and Rings than him.
The eye test is bias to an untrained eye, I agree 👍
KD and Steph played on the same team, and it turned out that KD is the better player.
Why do people continue to keep disrespecting Kyrie Irving? We don’t know if the Earth is round or flat so because he had a theory of the Earth being flat that means he’s an idiot let’s keep it real like Jamal Crawford said if you don’t have Colby in your top five that list is in valid.
I don't know why disrespect is so fluid in sports
We don’t know if the earth is round or flat!?!😂
*Kobe
@@hrrspaul4 You definitely don't know.
@@penkima4923 it’s definitely round
Top 10 player that has a burner account and run from comp?? That's not top 10 alpha dog mentality. He a betta
We talking about basketball. Can you judge it?
At the very top all the players are so good that intangibles come into play. That's why we praise Jordan and Kobe's mentality.
@@Mandownsports take away Jordan and kobe mentality and they would not be mentioned in the goat conversation
Steph Curry is ranked higher than KD
@@richardbonds3150 not in my book
@@Mandownsports I only rank him higher because of accomplishments KD is a better player Steph Curry has better handles and shooting
Kd had a top 8 dpoy season with the warriors. Okc beat the 2016 67 win kawhi spurs.....
He also had that in Brooklyn as well
@Mandownsports which supports what one of you said about the all defensive teams. It's voted on by the media.
@@jrob830 of course
I subscribed to ol' girl's channel after I saw her perfectly layout how the media was changing the requirements and had created LeBron's GOAT case, gotta unsubscribe after this, she is using to much assumption in her arguments the more I watch her, also how can you say somebody is the "best player I have ever seen", and not have them top 10, the deck stacker narratove strikes KD again, because it wasn't just a team signing the missing piece, which is what it actually was, I guess KD recruited a bunch of guys to come with him that I forgot about, guess Hakeem is disqualified for bringing in Clyde after they already won the year before, "he's a deck stacker" Dr. J don't get a mention, he brought in Moses and "stacked the deck" 🙄 that has always happened, the media just trying to make it seem like it's as bad as recruiting 2 other current prime top 15 players in the league, because that has only happened twice, both times... their false "king" was the culprit 💯 Sports and Fitness is talking out his ass on this one, out of almost 5,000 men that have played atleast a season in the league, only 235 have averaged 7+ RPG for their career, that is less than 5% of players for those wondering, and most of them are bigs(PF/C) 🤷♂️ he will not shut up long enough to here an argument, and he doesn't address the arguments, he calls them excuses or he changes them, we started out saying KD is a good defender, he starts comparing him to all time defenders 🙄 nobody ever said that he was on that level, if you listen more you would be able to keep up bro, and you mean the media who hate KD didn't vote for him on All Defensive teams... no, I'm shocked lol 😒 he is one of these "old heads" the youngsters be talking about that won't give a new guy nothin, he arguing with himself, I would ask him, "do you even need me for this conversation" god, he literally left while the caller was talking to him, you can't deal with a dude like that 💯 and now its offensive rebounds only, its just you have to jump to his next beef, its all emotional, and the caller that agreed with him, sounds just as wild, can't even name his top 10 without thinking about it, because the whole ammount of thought that went in it was, "I hate KD, I'm not gonna put him in my top 10", wow I hadn't made it to where he said Rick Barry 🤯
The guy that was yelling clearing doesn't wat h enough basketball if he think durant at best is a hood defender not getting voted is not on him theres plenty of people that just get voted just because
I agree
We are no better than the new school if when you speak about John Hav the argument is they never had enough teams but at the end of the day what did the league say NBA so all of them old school brothers what they did counts
KD somewhere #12-15. if he somehow leads a team to finals and wins. he can POSSIBLY be ahead of steph. for #11. i dont think he can crack the top 10 though. but who cares 😂 #11-20 is insanely/godly great anyway.
Its insane how out of hand NBA fan community has become with all the fake narratives and history trying to be rewritten for personal agendas. Sad
"if he somehow leads a team to finals and wins. he can POSSIBLY be ahead of steph...Its insane how out of hand NBA fan community has become with all the fake narratives and history trying to be rewritten for personal agendas. Sad"
Sounds like you're pushing your own fake narrative or personal agenda. The number of times a player can "lead" a team to the finals and win, isn't the only requirement for top-10 all timers. Otherwise Robert Horry would be in the top-10.
I love KD but he's not a top 10 maybe a top 20-25
This is my personal opinion Kevin Durant is 610 so he’s playing a small for position. I guess he should be a averaging a double double just like Kevin Love average a double double Rush Wallace. He’s another you talking about you. Sit down and do your logistics the way you do, but what you eat don’t get the next man stomach full, these people have their own doing their own thing the right way and LeBron LeBron has a guard now because we talking about KD now you gonna tell my KD position LeBron not a good rebound and no way is he better than Dr. cause you forget, Dr. Jay is the original rock Park dudes KD went down there, but he didn’t play with Pete Kirkland and autumn people like that manyou gotta respect the game man nobody taking away from the slim reaper ain’t nobody taking nothing from the sniper but he should be playing. He should be averaging a double double.
"Kevin Durant is 610 so he’s playing a small for position"
6'10 would be tall for a small forward, but KD is probably 6'11, so he's definitely power forward height. He's played mostly small forward, because like you said, he's the Slim Reaper.
"I guess he should be a averaging a double double just like Kevin Love average a double double Rush Wallace."
Kevin Love plays PF, plays closer to the bucket, and is physically far stronger than KD. KD mostly plays SF, and near the perimeter. KD averages like 7 rebs a game, which is great for an SF.
Top Ten “Talent” size and skill level.
He’s never driven the bus…
and I do not hold the more to Golden State against him… the man would’ve won three straight… and he was the reason.
Golden State wasn’t winning those titles without him~ IDC care what yall say about Russell Westbrook… KD couldn’t have won a championship with him..
that’s why he left..
Crazy Flat Earther~ relax, the Earth for damn sure ain’t a spinning globe hurtling through space…
calling someone crazy is dismissive, and a horrible way to make a point about Kyrie… had nothing to do with basketball nor KD’s legacy as a player.
He would be great and elite in any era…
Offensive Talent alone you can’t name ten players who were better, more skilled, and excelled more in their role, than KD.
"He’s never driven the bus…"
You mean win a championship with only one all-star teammate. Don't try to undermine others, if you're too scared to speak your mind yourself.
If you 6'10 I think like 8-10 is acceptable lol. I mean Luka average like 8 right now. You have guys like J Kidd and Russ who averaged 6-7. To me averaging like 5-6 is for your guards or guys under 6'7/6'8. Not to say averaging 6-7 is bad, but yal up there saying for a 6'10 guy that it's GREAT. I think yal tripping lol. It's decent or good. Now for a guard that's 6'6 and under to average 6-7 rebounds is GREAT. The league has also changed. There aren't many towers of 7 footers around. Now 6'10 is like the new 7 feet. So Robin is really right lol.
You don't judge rebounds based on height. It's based on position and were you play on the floor. Post players vs perimeter players. Plus what happened to actually watching the tape to see who is good at what and not watching the stats?
@@Mandownsports I watch tape lol but homie on the panel asked "what's a good number?". I was responding to that. And to your logic, you have guards who defied that logic. So if I say based on what I've seen that J.Kidd is a great all-time rebounder am I capping or nah? If I say J.Kidd is a great all-time rebounder for his position, that's a fact. Because among other PG's his numbers stand out by a great margin, and he was the tallest among them.
Context matters, and I feel Robin is providing that in greater detail than comparing KD rebounding to Lebron's, and Lebron isn't considered a "GREAT" rebounder.
@@StCropper the statement "great rebounder" pertains to EVERY PLAYER. The statement "great rebounder for his position" is totally different. J Kidd is a great rebounder for his position but not a great rebounder when compared to Rodman, Dwight, Malone. Durant isn't a great rebounder but for his position he is at the very least a good rebounder. Robin's argument is that KD is a terrible rebounder. That's crazy
@@Mandownsports I think yal forced him to say terrible because yal saying Great was wild lol. I heard him agree to average/decent. I think if yal would of just said "KD isn't a great rebounder" everything would of been copacetic lol.
Robyn chill these Dudes be bugging on mad thing Durrant is only a Good Heip defender that's it one on one he's Average No he's not top ten in anything be physical he's gonna disappear
These dudes is funny. Bird is not the greatest SF.
He has a serious argument for it.
KD is not a top 10 player and he’s not the best scorer ever so stop it please. And he’s never been a good defender. Sport and Fitness Rants speaking facts.
You don’t know ball
I love this panel, I really do, but I think some things are off the wall that get said lol. KD is a great scorer no doubt. But him being TOP 5 or in the 6 -10... I need to see more evidence to support the claim. I don't see him over MJ, Kobe, Kareem, Magic, Bird, (Wilt & Russell if we going due diligence to "All-Time" over "Modern-Time"), Duncan, Olajuwon, Shaq, Steph, Lebron, Isaiah. And Getting outside of that 10 -12 now we get to names like AI, Kawhi, KD, Garnett, Dwade, Barkley. Just like Lebron Magically leaped names I don't see how KD does. Now if we talking strictly scorers I get it. He's in there with MJ, Kobe, AI, T-Mac, Melo, Kyrie, Luca now, Carter, Wilkins, Drexler. And I know I'm missing some names but this is fresh.
Out of the first set of names you listed, KD and Steph played on the same team, and KD turned out to be the better player.
And KD has two FMVPs and a regular season MVP, compared to Zeke, who has 1 FMVP and 0 MVPs.
@@penkima4923 Zeke went through Mj, Celtics, and LA in the showtime era to get a ring… but yea, KD got 2 FMVPs when he jumped to a team that had went 73-9 so he can jump to the top. Amazing logic my guy 😂
@@StCropper "Zeke went through Mj"
Zeke didn't go through anything. Zeke was part of a stacked team, while MJ played solo.
"Celtics, and LA in the showtime era to get a ring"
After the showtime era. Kareem was 41 years old, and played his last season in '89. Kareem was retired in '90.
"KD got 2 FMVPs when he jumped to a team that had went 73-9 so he can jump to the top. Amazing logic my guy 😂"
It was a weak move, but Steph was on that team, and KD still won the FMVPs. So, there is some logic, that you didn't understand.
@@penkima4923 😂😂😂 Boy you terrible. So 1989 Jordan was solo now. Didn’t have a team. No Horace Grant or Scottie Pippen. The same core pieces to the first 3-peat. MJ was quintessential, but no one wins alone. This guy! lol
And I guess James Worthy isn’t worth a mention to you 😂
You started off with “it was a weak move”. Enough said right there.
@@penkima4923 and I shouldn’t have to say this, but I will. A team being “stacked” is very subjective. When Lebron went to Miami they were “stacked”. KD to golden state… “stacked”. I’ve never heard anyone refer to the Zeke’s Pistons as “stacked”. 😂
See they not old school they got to be in the mid 30s male and the other guy up in the corner. I don’t know his name sorry about that fan but I love y’all show. I wish I was on it because y’all debate hard body and I love it. You even got the females in there and they noticed stuff, but you guys are the new generation man LeBron have you ever seen him checking checking Alden play were you around when Dr. Jay were playing when they had the ABA?
@@SamuelIrving-h2d thanks for that comment bro. Salute 🫡
Not in MY book and I tell You Why?there are to Many players records Speaks for the Selves 1 MJ 2 Kareem 3 Kobe. 4 Wilt. 5. Harkeem. 6. DrJ. 7. Magic. 8 Bird. 9 Bill Russell. 10 Oskar Robinson are true greats Standing at the gate👍🤓 LeBron Jerry West Shaq and Tim Duncan rest MY Case🎩*
Kd trash when that defence get on him lol
@@SpursOn3 so is Steph
@@Mandownsports true neither of these modern players play good with good defense on them
Pre 2022 kd don't have problems with physical defense. Only past his prime has this been a problem
Why is zesty Jeffrey rant dude here
Kd can’t be top 10 cuz he can’t win without Steph Curry
MJ CANT WIN WITHOUT PIP OR BEING ON THE BEST TEAM 😂😂😂🤡
@@BIGDAWG-z4t Bro then Got Swept 2 times since he left curry, most ppl still wondering why he can’t get it done without him Kobe got it done without Shaq 2 times Kd only good on Olympics and a loaded gsw team he can’t do it without Steph …
And pippen was never a number 1 option that lead his team to a chip curry had a chip before that fraud and he won a chip as a number 1 after that fraud pippin never done that, Kd need another Alpha number 1 to win championship curry won with Poole and Wiggins as his 2nd and third option role players
@@HuddiniMagic WHAT THAT MEAN 🤷🏾♂️...LUKA , JOKER , KOBE BEEN SWEPT SO THEY SUK....ARE YOU WHITE BECAUSE ITS CLEAR WHITEMEN ARE JEALOUS OF BLK ATHLETES TODAY .......HOW IS THERE ANY GOATS TODAY IF A BLKMAN AINT ONE 😂😂
@@HuddiniMagic DURANT A LEAGUE SCORING LEADER , WE NEED SEPERATION FROM THESE FAKE AMERICANS, THEN WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THEM NOT PUTTING A ENTIRE FOOTBALL OR BASKETBALL TEAM TOGETHER THEY REPORT YOU .......LEWHITEMAN 🌈
Top 25
I have KD 13th
As much as I like him, Kevin Durant is not a Top Ten!!! That talk is to platform the #LeBumination - who is himself not a Top Ten!!!
I have KD 13th
Nope 👎🏿
I agree with Robin lol. He cooking.
He took sensible stances, but didn't really articulate his stances well. He wasn't really cooking.
@@penkima4923 I can see from your previous comments that you don’t quite grasp underlying concepts unless they’re stated. Hence why you need to quote so heavily just to formulate responses. It’s okay though. I understand you 👍🏿