@S3verusMyG a) that's not fair, who cares who he's attracted to B) his reputation took a hit a long time before that, basically during his first lakers stint and cemented during his rockets years
Hey Jonny, love this series. Was wondering if you are going to do it before the award existed as it would be cool to see the great defenders of the 70s and 60s
@@universalplayz7496Lol yeah, the 70s will be a lot more interesting than the 60s, although Wilt and maybe Jerry West could at least make the 60s a bit interesting rather than just Bill Russell every year
@@npa2005 the 70s got alot of Kareem domination since he was a 4x blocks leaders in the 70s despite the first 3 seasons of the 70s not counting blocks so he might’ve had 5x block leader
I find it really interesting that everyone complains about LeBron not winning in 2013, but when you actually went and looked at the races, he has a better case for 2012.
I think it's seriously just the 2nd team for Marc Gasol. That detail throws people off, and a lot of folks don't understand that 2 different voting groups were responsible for those results.
@@jonnyarnett exactly. people think Gasol shouldn't get dpoy since he was all defensive 2nd team, when if you really sit down and look at the film, numbers, Gasol got robbed of 1st team, not Lebron getting robbed of dpoy
I hate that people say Lebron was robbed. What about the other 21 years he’s has played. He had that many opportunities to win whatever award he wants. The league would love to give Lebron a DPOY, he is the face of the league. The fact that he doesn’t have one is because he’s never earned one
I'd love to hear about your opnion about this years DPOY battle. we all know Wemby leads in stocks but what about the eye test? or advanced stats like oposing player fg% when being guarded (if that stat is even recorded). I wonder if there's more to it.
I have never seen players run away from the basket like they do against Wemby. I definitely feel like he's got the eye test as well. I don't know the advanced stats, but seeing the crazy arc players are needing to get it past him, I imagine their pretty good.
@@jaketerpening3284Rudy has had that effect for a while now. People just don't watch him as much. Wemby will probably win at least 5 dpoy in his career tho.
@@jaketerpening3284 I've seen players do that a lot against some all time great rim protectors. Even an old Alonzo Mourning terrorized everyone in the paint, his impact in that 2006 finals was huge off the bench. However, seeing a rookie have this type of impact is trully amazing. He can accomplish amazing things if he stays healthy.
Great series as usual. I love your series _(serieses?)_ re-litigating the awards. I genrally end up agreeing with you, I think because I value things similarly to you. I like your emphasis on games played, or at least your consideration of it. 80 games of 9.5/10 defense is better than 60 games of 10/10, and a lot of the time it's easy to end up splitting hairs about who's better when healthy anyway.
Lebron was unreal in 2012 but I’m ngl what Chandler did for that knicks defense was unreal, plus the difference in Dallas with him gone (which has haunted them for years) sealed it imo. Great video as always
Draymond in the mid 2010's was THE best defensive player I had ever seen. I never saw anyone guard all 5 positions as effortlessly as he did, guards and bigs alike. He also quarterbacked the Warriors defense and would audibly call out the opposing team's sets and plays during games, stifling whatever they had planned. I would be at games, Green would do this, and the other team would almost be confused as to actually run the play after he had called out what they were going to do, or just try something else. Green must have been a film room monster, and the best I've ever seen QB a defense. Those championship runs will always be remembered by their high flying offense, but everyone forgets how the Warriors had a top ranked defense in every year they reached the finals. People wjo discount him as a player don't know hoop and let how they feel about him dictate their opinions of him as a player.
He was amazing on defense from 2015-2019. A true savant on that end. Versatile, great defensive communicator, kinda like how KG used to be, great motor and instincts. Imagine if he was more emotional stable, less volatile and had better athleticism?? It makes me imagine what Bill Russell would have looked like on defense in the modern era. I feel like Russell would be a taller, longer, more athletic version of Green on defense. Or even Hakeem, Pippen, David Robinson, young KG on defense in the modern era, those players were so fun to watch on defense. Intensity, length, athleticism, motor, IQ, timing, anticipation and great instincts.
Great video as usual! Id personally still give the 2013 award to James though,non-stop sports had a video that had a pretty convincing argument for it. Also what ive seen by retroactively going back and watching games they both played that season reinforced my beliefs but maybe my sample size was too small. As a fan who's 18 it's great to have videos on eras that I barely remember or was not alive to see myself.
The man was robbed, obviously. He average more blocks and just as many rebounds as gobert did. He also played 75 to gobert 56 while averaging these stats. Last both of their that teams had Identical.ecords.
@@idiverse3457 As I said in another comment In 2017-2018, The Jazz had a defensive rating of 111.4 without Rudy Gobert (would be 28th in the League) VS 101.4 with him (would be 1st in the league). They actually finished second but tied to Boston who ended first (103.9 for both) Also, after Gobert's comeback from his injury, the Jazz went from 10th in the Western Conference to 6th, with a 28W-8L record over the period. *The fact that he managed to do that in only 56 games should be used as an argument to his credit, not against it.*
Jrue deserved to be in the running that year as well. That was his best defensive season but of course he was overshadowed by being on the same team as AD. The fact that Smart has one and Jrue doesn’t is a complete joke.
Thr fact that T Chandler got his team to fifth in defensive ranking while having no other good defender makes him deserving of the dpoy imo. Lebron was playing with D wade, another great defender.
In 2012 it's either Chandler keeping or give it to Ibaka. Dwight Howard had strong case too. That year was actually very close and it's a taught decision.
Great list. I think my only complaint is LeBron winning the DPOY over Tyson. As good as LeBron was he also benefitted immensely from having another great defender on his team in Dwayne Wade. Wade also finished top 20 in the DPOY race that year. Wade was averaging 1.3 blks per game and 1.7 stls per game. I actually think if he hadn't played in only 49 games that season he probably would have been a much higher contender for DPOY. What isn't in question though was when he played he was just as important to their team defensively as LeBron was. In that regards I think Tyson actually made the bigger impact to his team defensively then LeBron did.
In 2017-2018, The Jazz had a defensive rating of 111.4 without Rudy Gobert (would be *28th* in the League) VS 101.4 with him (would be 1st in the league). They actually finished second but tied to Boston who ended first (103.9 for both) Also, after Gobert's comeback from his injury, the Jazz went from 10th in the Western Conference to 6th, with a 28W-8L record over the period. The fact that he managed to do that in only 56 games should be used as an argument to his credit, not against it. All of this is what the voters were thinking that season, and why Gobert very deservedly won the DPOY that year. None of this was egregious in the slightest. This is the context that you were probably missing @jonnyarnett Anyway thank you for this series of videos. It's very well made !
rudy gobert had way more help than AD on both ends of the floor, which is how his team was able to do good. Put AD on that Jazz team and he's doing much more than gobert
the fact that AD played better defense for 20 more games is why it was egregious. As stated in the video, he wouldn't even have been eligible with today's rules
you nailed 2011-12; i've always heard people talk about 12-13 as if lbj got robbed. he didn't, it was the year prior he was robbed. 12-13 the real crime was LBJ coming even close to winning DPOY, Gasol was outstanding that year. I always believed that 12-13 was a "makeup vote" by the media as an apology for getting it wrong the prior year. and they almost robbed Gasol of a well deserved DPOY award in the process.
Draymond is underrated player and defender overall... Thanks for giving his props because I'm tired of those casuals who are saying that Draymond is trash and that he only has soo good career because of Steph and Warriors. If Draymond wasn't there, those Warriors definitely wouldn't be the same...
Well he’s definitely great but his issue is HE DOESNT SHUT UP. When u toot ur own horn so much, it lends itself to hate and over critique. Especially when u talk crazy about legends like Barkely and say you can be on his level if u were by yourself. But then every single chance he’s gotten to be the number one guy whike Steph and klay were out, that level of play was non existent. He’s his own worst enemy.
Seems to me like Tony Allens impact is being ignored in 2013. Not because I think he should’ve won it, but because he still played with the Grizzlies and Gasol specifically. As much as Gasols individual stats matter, they aren’t solely individual because the perimeter defense the Grizzlies had was already solid and having a disciplined backcourt elevates a smart front court which I’ve come to understand was the case that year with Marc Gasol. Like you said, Grizzlies were overall better defensively than the Heat. As well as the somewhat controversial eye test, I believe LeBron was the better defender. You cannot say numbers don’t tell the whole story then turn around and say they do let alone support Gasol with the same points you can support LeBron with. It’s hypocritical.
Gasol deserved it. People acting like he wasn't a good defender. For him to have those stats AND have tony allen on the team is insane. Tony Allen is a perimeter player, Gasol mans the paint. Gason was still the most dominant player defensively despite this.
@@JustAMessenger-o7g Because he was clearly a more versatile defender? That season Tyson chandler and Joakim noah were both tied for 1st team all defense at C position, so realistically speaking Gasol wasn't even the 2nd best defensive center that season. People love bringing up advanced stats and say ''ohhhh Gasol's numbers were way better'' but they forgot that gasol played with mike conley and tony allen who were both defensive monsters and both made all defense 1st team, playing with those guys definitely boosted his numbers. So yeah i'm really curious why you think Lebron should not have won it?
2018 Gobert - "This DPOY selection was the most egregious I have ever seen." Oh man, just wait a few days and we'll have 2024 Gobert blowing that one out of the water.
I don’t even think he deserved the other 2💀 2018 yes but the other 2 no. 2021 should’ve been Jrue or Ben and 2019 should’ve been Giannis and 2020 should’ve been AD while 2022 should’ve gone to Mikal 100% and last year should’ve been Brook Lopez Or Mobley but Brook definitely should’ve gotten it
Jonny, what about Tony Allen and Zach Randolph contribution in 2012?? Of course a center is way more impactful on the defense in certain point than any other position. And Gasol was truly underrated as a defender back in 2012, even if he won the DPOY. But man, the toughness of Tony Allen in the perimeter and Zach Randolph fighting for the rebounds really helped Gasol's defense to shine. I didnt watch all of the Memphis games back in the day, but i just like to point out how Memphis defense was more than just Gasol, in my point of view. I'm glad the NBA recognized Gasol as the defender he was and they didnt did him dirty like they did to Duncan, but Gasol wasnt a Gobert type of carrying on defense either.
I love how the basis for Jonny DPOY selections were based upon team / individual impact being an anchor & yet Kevin Garnett (#1 DBPM #1 Def. rtg #1 - #5 DWS) doesnt constitute a 2012 DPOY😂 It doesnt stop
It's hard for a guard to win DPOY, an average guard can only steal or deflect the ball. A taller player can easily shoot over them. While a center or taller player can block, resulting in a steal and can alter many shot attempts.
Despite the fact that sitting out games just for the sake of it is ridiculous I see no issue with a player "only" playing around 75 % of all games. The load on these players is pretty high and these days they have so many games in their body by the time they supposedly hit their prime that it's important to manage the time on the court.
This is completely unrelated to this specific video but can we get a vote on if you should do the greatest All time - “none” MVP team ?? From the greatest/best players to never win a single MVP in their career
DPOY is overly biased to Centers & PFs. I value a Defender higher for earning 5+ First Team All-Defense by Position than a guy who wins 1 DPOY and only 2 First Team All-Defense honors. I also value guys who play 70 games (85% of 82) because they played through sprains & minor injuries. I prefer the same 70-game threshold for Season MVP.
Tyson Chandler single handily transformed the Knicks from a bottom of the barrel defense to a top 5 defense overnight. The reasons you use to justify Gasol getting it and Marcus Camby getting it in the 2000s video apply to Tyson Chandler.
2018 should be Ben Simmons, I get that he was a rookie and they don't like giving rookies these awards. I feel although he may not have had the stocks AD did, his advanced stats are better than anyone else in the NBA that year. I think the perfect stat to prove this is his DBPM was 2.5, and Embiid who finished 2nd in DPOY and was on the same team was 1.3 DBPM (Davis was 1.4). They got the wrong Sixer.
I love how Andre Drummond led the league in Defensive Win Shares TWICE (2018 with 5.7 and 2019 with 5.9) and had 1.5s 1.6b in 2018, 1.7s 1.7b in 2019, and his name wasn't even mentioned ONCE in this video even as an afterthought. Not only that, but you misattributed the leader of DWS in 2018 to being Anthony Davis (you correct this in the graphic, but you still say it wrong). The disrespect to Andre Drummond historically is insane, especially as a defensive player. He's literally one of only 17 players to ever lead the league in DWS twice or more in their career, and he led Detroit to the 10th best defense in 2018 and the 11th best in 2019, while never having a single teammate exceed 3 defensive win shares themselves, and only one teammate over that two year stretch having more than 2.5 DWS to themselves (Blake Griffin at 2.9 in 2019). Drummond, for all this defensive achievement and advanced (and traditional) statistical dominance, was never even named to so much as a single all defense second team, and he couldnt so much as even get a shoutout in this video, which relies so heavily on DWS, steals, and blocks as metrics of success. Andre Drummond is the only player to lead the league in DWS twice and not make an all defensive team in either season.
In addition to that, in 2018, Rudy Gobert (the actual winner) had 4 other players on his team (Mitchell, Rubio, Ingles, and Favors) that all had between 3.5-3.8 DWS each, meaning that Gobert's 3.9 BARELY led his own team. His 4th best defensive trammate, at 3.5, had 1.1 more DWS than Drummond's BEST defensive teammate, Stanley Johnson, at 2.4. Now for Davis (your winner). In 2018, while not receiving as much help as Gobert, Davis had two teammates averaging at least .5 more DWS than Drummond's best help in Johnson (Davis had Cousins giving him 3.2 and Holiday giving him 2.9). And even with all that way better help on defense, Davis was only able to get the Pelicans to the 14th best defense, whereas Drummond, with not a single other defender giving him even close to 3 DWS, led the league with 5.7 and dragged his team to the 10th best defense in the league.
Andrea Drummond has never been great on defense. DWS doesn't mean much. I don't think Johnny has any understanding of advanced analytics which is why he uses DWS, blocks and steals
You also once again misattribute the DWS lead to Gobert in 2019. Drummond led the league with 5.9, Gobert had 5.7. Gobert had 0.6s and 2.6b, good for 3.2 stocks. Drummond had 1.7s and 1.7b, good for 3.4 stocks. In both of these last metrics, Drummond definitely takes a slight edge, and now let's look at their help again. In 2019 as I mentioned, Drummond had no teammates over 3 DWS and only one (Griffin at 2.9) over 2. In 2019, Gobert once again had four teammates (Mitchell, Ingles, Favors, and Crowder) over 3 DWS, and two more (Rubio and O'Neale) contributing over 2 each. This means that Gobert's 6th best defensive teammate (over 2) was contributing more to their defense than Drummond's 2nd best (under 2) was comtributing to his. And yet with all that lack of help, he was still able to drag Detroit to the 11th best defense. You didn't even mention his name in the video, and you went so far as to literally misattribute both of his years leading the league in DWS to other players entirely. Honestly, shame on you for this total erasure of a player's career and lack of respect for everything Andre Drummond has accomplished on defense.
@@tiktokexposed898 Way to just ignore everything i wrote and not even mention how he was leading his team to a better defensive rating (10th and 11th for Dummond in 2018 and 2019 vs 14th and 20th for Davis) than Davis each year that Davis was supposedly such a monster, even though Drummond didn't have any teammates even close to the defensive caliber of a Jrue Holiday. Detroit had a LOT of team defensive success from 2016-19, and Drummond was basically the only reason that that happened.
You got much better at ranking defensive player award winners. However you Didn’t follow this formula in your earlier videos of who should have been defensive players of the 1990’s. Please redo that video with using advanced stats!
Really hard to give your point for mark and the media but that also means you are dismissing 25 coach’s in the nba and think they are wrong in thinking who the best defender was and that you know better when we both know that’s not the case
lechock doesn't deserve any dpoy when he can't even stay in front of anyone while only watching them. he's been doing that his whole career to get free rebounds.
you are wilding LeBron is the one back to back defensive players of the year and I am a fan of the Gritton grind grizzlies, but Tony Allen should’ve got defensive player of the year overall in my opinion kawhi leonard should have won 3 straight defensive player of the year i agree AD was the dpoy in 2017-18
Dwight howard would have been such a better player if he focused on posession versus sending blocks out of the court.....half his blocks he could have easily grabbed....but nope..other teams ball everytime because it looks cool
Johnny arnett: "what if every defender wins dpoy regardless of his team record" Johnny arnett also: "gasol wins the dpoy because his team is much better defensively "
2013 Lebron should have definitely won the award.If not Tony Allen, but not Marc.Plus it doesn't make any sense that you would take Tyson Chandler defensive player award away And then right after that use the same reasons to justify giving Marc the award. when even that season tyson was better than Marc defensively. He helped the knicks when 54 games that year
LeBron’s “elite” defense is possibly the biggest myth in the modern NBA. Not only do the stats not bear out that he ever deserved the award, his lack of defense in the last full decade erase anything positive he’s ever done defensively.
If anyone should've been DPOY other than Chandler in 2012, it should've been Dwight Howard or Garnett imo, real "defensive engines" for their teams. LeBron has never been a dawg like that a defense. Stop it!
Always kinda bums me out how.lebron basically gave up on playing defense by like 2017ish I know sometimes you gotta conserve energy for offense but damn.man TRY!
do you actually watch basketball man... his defense obviously hasn't been all time great level because of his age but he never gave up playing defense. for fucks sake he was a lockdown machine in 2020
Who was the most overlooked defender of the 2010s??
Og Annouby and Danny Green
Tony Allen
Tony Allen
Bogut?
Like Noah ang Marc, they dont average lots of blocks, they dont have spectacular blocks but it's hard to score on them
tony allen
Love seeing defense get more of a spotlight. Good series
Just reading off basketball reference stats is not putting a spotlight on defense.
Maaaan Dwight was an absolute monster of a defender and rebounder. Shame he gets shit on so much. Smh
Dwights legacy really took a hit after all the SA and queer controversy's, which is fair since imagining a 6''11 250lb booty warrior is scary
@S3verusMyG a) that's not fair, who cares who he's attracted to
B) his reputation took a hit a long time before that, basically during his first lakers stint and cemented during his rockets years
The fact that he didn't make the nba 75 team and.melo did is a goddamn travesty
@@cypher787Man that's the biggest crime in NBA history
@@jaceking5938I think his rep got hurt cause he played in Lakers and being called soft even tho he messed his back up
Hey Jonny, love this series. Was wondering if you are going to do it before the award existed as it would be cool to see the great defenders of the 70s and 60s
Yep, that'll be a part of the series, for sure
1960: Bill Russel
Repeat that 5 more times
1966-1968 I’d say wilt as he started focusing more on defense
1969 back to Russel
@@universalplayz7496Lol yeah, the 70s will be a lot more interesting than the 60s, although Wilt and maybe Jerry West could at least make the 60s a bit interesting rather than just Bill Russell every year
@@jonnyarnettCould you do the 40s and 50s as well?
@@npa2005 the 70s got alot of Kareem domination since he was a 4x blocks leaders in the 70s despite the first 3 seasons of the 70s not counting blocks so he might’ve had 5x block leader
Crazy that from 2018 on, the DPOY is going to be mostly owned by 2 tall Frenchmen.
Including the fact that the projected no. 1 pick for the 2024 draft is a 7'1 athletic defensive Frenchman named Alex Sarr
the french are known for their impeccable defenses but lackluster at winning
@@thundercracker07Tony Parker has something to say about that
@@WembysCastle 1940
Not to mention an overrated one at that. I can't think of another another Dpoy in their prime bench because they couldn't play defense.
I find it really interesting that everyone complains about LeBron not winning in 2013, but when you actually went and looked at the races, he has a better case for 2012.
I think it's seriously just the 2nd team for Marc Gasol. That detail throws people off, and a lot of folks don't understand that 2 different voting groups were responsible for those results.
@@jonnyarnett exactly. people think Gasol shouldn't get dpoy since he was all defensive 2nd team, when if you really sit down and look at the film, numbers, Gasol got robbed of 1st team, not Lebron getting robbed of dpoy
@@jonnyarnettTyson make second team as well right
I hate that people say Lebron was robbed. What about the other 21 years he’s has played. He had that many opportunities to win whatever award he wants. The league would love to give Lebron a DPOY, he is the face of the league. The fact that he doesn’t have one is because he’s never earned one
@@2playschemeo.p.croutes724god that logic is horrible it’s sad
I'd love to hear about your opnion about this years DPOY battle. we all know Wemby leads in stocks but what about the eye test? or advanced stats like oposing player fg% when being guarded (if that stat is even recorded). I wonder if there's more to it.
Yep! Already finished the script. You'll hear my thoughts on the very next video that drops on this channel.
I have never seen players run away from the basket like they do against Wemby. I definitely feel like he's got the eye test as well. I don't know the advanced stats, but seeing the crazy arc players are needing to get it past him, I imagine their pretty good.
@@jaketerpening3284Rudy has had that effect for a while now. People just don't watch him as much. Wemby will probably win at least 5 dpoy in his career tho.
@@jaketerpening3284Rudy Gobert has been doing this from the beginning lol, not sure why people are acting like Wemby has done it for the first time?
@@jaketerpening3284 I've seen players do that a lot against some all time great rim protectors. Even an old Alonzo Mourning terrorized everyone in the paint, his impact in that 2006 finals was huge off the bench. However, seeing a rookie have this type of impact is trully amazing. He can accomplish amazing things if he stays healthy.
More excited for Jonny's videos than the upcoming NBA playoffs.
This video was awesome. I love how you gave context to each year and each player to really understand their impact on the game.
Great series as usual. I love your series _(serieses?)_ re-litigating the awards. I genrally end up agreeing with you, I think because I value things similarly to you.
I like your emphasis on games played, or at least your consideration of it. 80 games of 9.5/10 defense is better than 60 games of 10/10, and a lot of the time it's easy to end up splitting hairs about who's better when healthy anyway.
Lebron was unreal in 2012 but I’m ngl what Chandler did for that knicks defense was unreal, plus the difference in Dallas with him gone (which has haunted them for years) sealed it imo. Great video as always
Draymond in the mid 2010's was THE best defensive player I had ever seen. I never saw anyone guard all 5 positions as effortlessly as he did, guards and bigs alike. He also quarterbacked the Warriors defense and would audibly call out the opposing team's sets and plays during games, stifling whatever they had planned. I would be at games, Green would do this, and the other team would almost be confused as to actually run the play after he had called out what they were going to do, or just try something else.
Green must have been a film room monster, and the best I've ever seen QB a defense. Those championship runs will always be remembered by their high flying offense, but everyone forgets how the Warriors had a top ranked defense in every year they reached the finals. People wjo discount him as a player don't know hoop and let how they feel about him dictate their opinions of him as a player.
He was amazing on defense from 2015-2019. A true savant on that end. Versatile, great defensive communicator, kinda like how KG used to be, great motor and instincts. Imagine if he was more emotional stable, less volatile and had better athleticism?? It makes me imagine what Bill Russell would have looked like on defense in the modern era. I feel like Russell would be a taller, longer, more athletic version of Green on defense. Or even Hakeem, Pippen, David Robinson, young KG on defense in the modern era, those players were so fun to watch on defense. Intensity, length, athleticism, motor, IQ, timing, anticipation and great instincts.
was waiting for this!!!!!!!
Great video Jonny ! This serie rules
Great video as usual! Id personally still give the 2013 award to James though,non-stop sports had a video that had a pretty convincing argument for it. Also what ive seen by retroactively going back and watching games they both played that season reinforced my beliefs but maybe my sample size was too small. As a fan who's 18 it's great to have videos on eras that I barely remember or was not alive to see myself.
HE DROPPED🦉
Another great serial after MVPs and Finals MVPs 😍😍😍😍
That 2017-18 award had me heated! I was so pissed Davis got shafted
The man was robbed, obviously. He average more blocks and just as many rebounds as gobert did. He also played 75 to gobert 56 while averaging these stats. Last both of their that teams had Identical.ecords.
@@idiverse3457 As I said in another comment
In 2017-2018, The Jazz had a defensive rating of 111.4 without Rudy Gobert (would be 28th in the League) VS 101.4 with him (would be 1st in the league). They actually finished second but tied to Boston who ended first (103.9 for both)
Also, after Gobert's comeback from his injury, the Jazz went from 10th in the Western Conference to 6th, with a 28W-8L record over the period.
*The fact that he managed to do that in only 56 games should be used as an argument to his credit, not against it.*
Jrue deserved to be in the running that year as well. That was his best defensive season but of course he was overshadowed by being on the same team as AD. The fact that Smart has one and Jrue doesn’t is a complete joke.
I love seeing availability highlighted. Can't be valuable to your team in street clothes
Thr fact that T Chandler got his team to fifth in defensive ranking while having no other good defender makes him deserving of the dpoy imo. Lebron was playing with D wade, another great defender.
My guy Jonny killin the damn game !!
By far your best video idea, I really enjoyed these defensive debates
I always thought if you could give Tim Duncan any DPOY with little consequence to NBA history it would be 2012.
In 2012 it's either Chandler keeping or give it to Ibaka. Dwight Howard had strong case too. That year was actually very close and it's a taught decision.
Great list. I think my only complaint is LeBron winning the DPOY over Tyson. As good as LeBron was he also benefitted immensely from having another great defender on his team in Dwayne Wade. Wade also finished top 20 in the DPOY race that year. Wade was averaging 1.3 blks per game and 1.7 stls per game. I actually think if he hadn't played in only 49 games that season he probably would have been a much higher contender for DPOY. What isn't in question though was when he played he was just as important to their team defensively as LeBron was.
In that regards I think Tyson actually made the bigger impact to his team defensively then LeBron did.
Also Bosh was great on defense in that system. Especially as a big guarding the pick and roll.
@@nostalgicbliss5547 Yeah the Heat were such a stacked team.
I'm excited to see the next series of this DPOY 2020's Edition in July 2029 😂
3:05 dude was caressing Steph's face lmao
Tony Allen FIRST TEAM ALL DEFENSE FOR LIFEEEE
Everyone is talking about Marc and forget that Tyson Chandler was also DPOY and All defensive second tge year prior
In 2017-2018, The Jazz had a defensive rating of 111.4 without Rudy Gobert (would be *28th* in the League) VS 101.4 with him (would be 1st in the league). They actually finished second but tied to Boston who ended first (103.9 for both)
Also, after Gobert's comeback from his injury, the Jazz went from 10th in the Western Conference to 6th, with a 28W-8L record over the period.
The fact that he managed to do that in only 56 games should be used as an argument to his credit, not against it.
All of this is what the voters were thinking that season, and why Gobert very deservedly won the DPOY that year. None of this was egregious in the slightest.
This is the context that you were probably missing @jonnyarnett
Anyway thank you for this series of videos. It's very well made !
rudy gobert had way more help than AD on both ends of the floor, which is how his team was able to do good. Put AD on that Jazz team and he's doing much more than gobert
the fact that AD played better defense for 20 more games is why it was egregious. As stated in the video, he wouldn't even have been eligible with today's rules
you nailed 2011-12; i've always heard people talk about 12-13 as if lbj got robbed. he didn't, it was the year prior he was robbed. 12-13 the real crime was LBJ coming even close to winning DPOY, Gasol was outstanding that year. I always believed that 12-13 was a "makeup vote" by the media as an apology for getting it wrong the prior year. and they almost robbed Gasol of a well deserved DPOY award in the process.
Draymond is underrated player and defender overall... Thanks for giving his props because I'm tired of those casuals who are saying that Draymond is trash and that he only has soo good career because of Steph and Warriors. If Draymond wasn't there, those Warriors definitely wouldn't be the same...
Well he’s definitely great but his issue is HE DOESNT SHUT UP. When u toot ur own horn so much, it lends itself to hate and over critique. Especially when u talk crazy about legends like Barkely and say you can be on his level if u were by yourself. But then every single chance he’s gotten to be the number one guy whike Steph and klay were out, that level of play was non existent. He’s his own worst enemy.
Jonny, please tell me what the name of the music that is in you intro! 😂 it's so good
its in the description
@@spookysquirtle tysm
This is a helpful video as the 2024 DPOY discussion occurs between Gobert and Wemby.
Seems to me like Tony Allens impact is being ignored in 2013. Not because I think he should’ve won it, but because he still played with the Grizzlies and Gasol specifically. As much as Gasols individual stats matter, they aren’t solely individual because the perimeter defense the Grizzlies had was already solid and having a disciplined backcourt elevates a smart front court which I’ve come to understand was the case that year with Marc Gasol. Like you said, Grizzlies were overall better defensively than the Heat. As well as the somewhat controversial eye test, I believe LeBron was the better defender. You cannot say numbers don’t tell the whole story then turn around and say they do let alone support Gasol with the same points you can support LeBron with. It’s hypocritical.
Gasol deserved it. People acting like he wasn't a good defender. For him to have those stats AND have tony allen on the team is insane. Tony Allen is a perimeter player, Gasol mans the paint. Gason was still the most dominant player defensively despite this.
I think you should do a video talking about the death of the bank shot over the decades cause I rarely see anyone but Ant use it
Bron being ranked 101 on defensive rating while I’ve heard for 10 years why he should of won DPOY is hilarious
Using defensive rating shows you don't know how stats work. That's a team stat not individual
@@tiktokexposed898 1v1 Bron is not great. Deal with it
@@franagustin3094well that's a lie... But nice pivot ig
@@tiktokexposed898probably my biggest gripe is how people use stats without knowing if they're flawed or not
@@NewwxNeww he lost with barea, even curry cook him
Happy Monday!!!
Another great episode bro
@Jonnyarnett What’s your thoughts on the three-to-make-two free throw rule and can you make a video on it?
I didn't know how bad that 2018 DPOY was, that should without a doubt be ADs, it might be the biggest snub to an award ever
Marc Gasol deserved his flowers
Agreed
flowers for sure but that DPOY really was LeBron's
@@tiktokexposed898no, it wasn’t.
Did you watch the video?
@@tiktokexposed898
Really curious why you think Lebron should have won it that season over Marc Gasol.
@@JustAMessenger-o7g Because he was clearly a more versatile defender? That season Tyson chandler and Joakim noah were both tied for 1st team all defense at C position, so realistically speaking Gasol wasn't even the 2nd best defensive center that season. People love bringing up advanced stats and say ''ohhhh Gasol's numbers were way better'' but they forgot that gasol played with mike conley and tony allen who were both defensive monsters and both made all defense 1st team, playing with those guys definitely boosted his numbers. So yeah i'm really curious why you think Lebron should not have won it?
Clearly,,, Wemby DPOY this season gave you the idea for this video🤣💯
2018 Gobert - "This DPOY selection was the most egregious I have ever seen."
Oh man, just wait a few days and we'll have 2024 Gobert blowing that one out of the water.
I don’t even think he deserved the other 2💀 2018 yes but the other 2 no. 2021 should’ve been Jrue or Ben and 2019 should’ve been Giannis and 2020 should’ve been AD while 2022 should’ve gone to Mikal 100% and last year should’ve been Brook Lopez Or Mobley but Brook definitely should’ve gotten it
Except Rudy actually deserves this one lol. So not really
@@NewwxNeww yes this is one the one that I think he actually deserved aside from 18
I knew Wemby would lose. All the winners have come from players whose team made the playoffs.
Video is a bit different from what I had thought it'd be given the title but solid watch
Dwight was an animal.
Who’s your DPOY for this season though ?
Jonny, what about Tony Allen and Zach Randolph contribution in 2012?? Of course a center is way more impactful on the defense in certain point than any other position. And Gasol was truly underrated as a defender back in 2012, even if he won the DPOY. But man, the toughness of Tony Allen in the perimeter and Zach Randolph fighting for the rebounds really helped Gasol's defense to shine. I didnt watch all of the Memphis games back in the day, but i just like to point out how Memphis defense was more than just Gasol, in my point of view. I'm glad the NBA recognized Gasol as the defender he was and they didnt did him dirty like they did to Duncan, but Gasol wasnt a Gobert type of carrying on defense either.
I love how the basis for Jonny DPOY selections were based upon team / individual impact being an anchor & yet Kevin Garnett (#1 DBPM #1 Def. rtg #1 - #5 DWS) doesnt constitute a 2012 DPOY😂
It doesnt stop
It's hard for a guard to win DPOY, an average guard can only steal or deflect the ball. A taller player can easily shoot over them. While a center or taller player can block, resulting in a steal and can alter many shot attempts.
If ad is consistently playing defense like he did last year in the playoffs he could have multiple dpoys imo.
Davis should have been a 2x dpoy by now. He was also got robbed of the award(when giannis won it).
Despite the fact that sitting out games just for the sake of it is ridiculous I see no issue with a player "only" playing around 75 % of all games. The load on these players is pretty high and these days they have so many games in their body by the time they supposedly hit their prime that it's important to manage the time on the court.
This is completely unrelated to this specific video but can we get a vote on if you should do the greatest All time - “none” MVP team ?? From the greatest/best players to never win a single MVP in their career
I need a one like this but for 2020s plz
i do wish guards got more love for dpoy, even though im sure the defensive numbers aren't as impressive as the bigger rip protecting players
I’m trusting coaches over media. Bron deserved back to back DPOYs.
Coaches overall never said Bron deserved back to back DPOYs 😂
Cool. Coaches would have voted Tony Allen the DPOY 2013. He got more votes than LeBron in the All-Defense voting, so....still no DPOY for LeBron.☹️
Coaches don't trust your opinion though,🤷🤷🤷🤷
finally someone agrees that lebron should have won DPOY in 2012
at this point... lets just look at totals instead of averages. Averages just hide the fact that some players dont play much.
Sounds good.List that is.
DPOY is overly biased to Centers & PFs. I value a Defender higher for earning 5+ First Team All-Defense by Position than a guy who wins 1 DPOY and only 2 First Team All-Defense honors. I also value guys who play 70 games (85% of 82) because they played through sprains & minor injuries.
I prefer the same 70-game threshold for Season MVP.
Tyson Chandler single handily transformed the Knicks from a bottom of the barrel defense to a top 5 defense overnight. The reasons you use to justify Gasol getting it and Marcus Camby getting it in the 2000s video apply to Tyson Chandler.
2018 should be Ben Simmons, I get that he was a rookie and they don't like giving rookies these awards. I feel although he may not have had the stocks AD did, his advanced stats are better than anyone else in the NBA that year. I think the perfect stat to prove this is his DBPM was 2.5, and Embiid who finished 2nd in DPOY and was on the same team was 1.3 DBPM (Davis was 1.4). They got the wrong Sixer.
Bron fans still crying about that 2013 Dpoy
i woud trust the actual fucking nba coaches over the media by a mile. why shouldn't lebron have won the award
who is your 2024 DPOY ? Mine is Wemby but its really close
The 11-12 season I think should have went to Ibaka.
Do you plan to make a full GOAT comparison between MJ and LBJ?
I love how Andre Drummond led the league in Defensive Win Shares TWICE (2018 with 5.7 and 2019 with 5.9) and had 1.5s 1.6b in 2018, 1.7s 1.7b in 2019, and his name wasn't even mentioned ONCE in this video even as an afterthought. Not only that, but you misattributed the leader of DWS in 2018 to being Anthony Davis (you correct this in the graphic, but you still say it wrong). The disrespect to Andre Drummond historically is insane, especially as a defensive player. He's literally one of only 17 players to ever lead the league in DWS twice or more in their career, and he led Detroit to the 10th best defense in 2018 and the 11th best in 2019, while never having a single teammate exceed 3 defensive win shares themselves, and only one teammate over that two year stretch having more than 2.5 DWS to themselves (Blake Griffin at 2.9 in 2019). Drummond, for all this defensive achievement and advanced (and traditional) statistical dominance, was never even named to so much as a single all defense second team, and he couldnt so much as even get a shoutout in this video, which relies so heavily on DWS, steals, and blocks as metrics of success. Andre Drummond is the only player to lead the league in DWS twice and not make an all defensive team in either season.
In addition to that, in 2018, Rudy Gobert (the actual winner) had 4 other players on his team (Mitchell, Rubio, Ingles, and Favors) that all had between 3.5-3.8 DWS each, meaning that Gobert's 3.9 BARELY led his own team. His 4th best defensive trammate, at 3.5, had 1.1 more DWS than Drummond's BEST defensive teammate, Stanley Johnson, at 2.4.
Now for Davis (your winner). In 2018, while not receiving as much help as Gobert, Davis had two teammates averaging at least .5 more DWS than Drummond's best help in Johnson (Davis had Cousins giving him 3.2 and Holiday giving him 2.9). And even with all that way better help on defense, Davis was only able to get the Pelicans to the 14th best defense, whereas Drummond, with not a single other defender giving him even close to 3 DWS, led the league with 5.7 and dragged his team to the 10th best defense in the league.
Andrea Drummond has never been great on defense. DWS doesn't mean much. I don't think Johnny has any understanding of advanced analytics which is why he uses DWS, blocks and steals
You also once again misattribute the DWS lead to Gobert in 2019. Drummond led the league with 5.9, Gobert had 5.7.
Gobert had 0.6s and 2.6b, good for 3.2 stocks.
Drummond had 1.7s and 1.7b, good for 3.4 stocks.
In both of these last metrics, Drummond definitely takes a slight edge, and now let's look at their help again.
In 2019 as I mentioned, Drummond had no teammates over 3 DWS and only one (Griffin at 2.9) over 2.
In 2019, Gobert once again had four teammates (Mitchell, Ingles, Favors, and Crowder) over 3 DWS, and two more (Rubio and O'Neale) contributing over 2 each. This means that Gobert's 6th best defensive teammate (over 2) was contributing more to their defense than Drummond's 2nd best (under 2) was comtributing to his. And yet with all that lack of help, he was still able to drag Detroit to the 11th best defense.
You didn't even mention his name in the video, and you went so far as to literally misattribute both of his years leading the league in DWS to other players entirely.
Honestly, shame on you for this total erasure of a player's career and lack of respect for everything Andre Drummond has accomplished on defense.
@@tiktokexposed898 How does a not great defensive player lead their team to a top 12 defense 4 years straight, with basically no help?
@@tiktokexposed898 Way to just ignore everything i wrote and not even mention how he was leading his team to a better defensive rating (10th and 11th for Dummond in 2018 and 2019 vs 14th and 20th for Davis) than Davis each year that Davis was supposedly such a monster, even though Drummond didn't have any teammates even close to the defensive caliber of a Jrue Holiday. Detroit had a LOT of team defensive success from 2016-19, and Drummond was basically the only reason that that happened.
2017 could’ve been a turn over for Gobert
You got much better at ranking defensive player award winners. However you Didn’t follow this formula in your earlier videos of who should have been defensive players of the 1990’s. Please redo that video with using advanced stats!
Interesting that you gave it to Lebron in 2012 when Lebron thinks he shoulda won it in 2013.
im sad tony allen didnt get one on your list
discredit marcus smart all you want, but in a historically weak DPOY race why not give it to a guy on one of the best statistical defense of all time?
Really hard to give your point for mark and the media but that also means you are dismissing 25 coach’s in the nba and think they are wrong in thinking who the best defender was and that you know better when we both know that’s not the case
I agree.
do it for the 20s
lechock doesn't deserve any dpoy when he can't even stay in front of anyone while only watching them. he's been doing that his whole career to get free rebounds.
🏀
By this rule Victor Wetbanana should win DPOY this year
As long as "sports writers" are making these decisions this and others, they will never be legitimate.
A decade is year 1 to 10.
a lot of people hating on gobert
you are wilding LeBron is the one back to back defensive players of the year and I am a fan of the Gritton grind grizzlies, but Tony Allen should’ve got defensive player of the year overall in my opinion
kawhi leonard should have won 3 straight defensive player of the year
i agree AD was the dpoy in 2017-18
Dwight howard would have been such a better player if he focused on posession versus sending blocks out of the court.....half his blocks he could have easily grabbed....but nope..other teams ball everytime because it looks cool
I feel like jrue should have one
Noah should have won over Marc Gasol
Wemby should win DPOY this year
Wemby should win it this year. Prove me wrong
Can’t prove someone wrong who won’t watch the games
Johnny arnett: "what if every defender wins dpoy regardless of his team record"
Johnny arnett also: "gasol wins the dpoy because his team is much better defensively "
2013 Lebron should have definitely won the award.If not Tony Allen, but not Marc.Plus it doesn't make any sense that you would take Tyson Chandler defensive player award away And then right after that use the same reasons to justify giving Marc the award. when even that season tyson was better than Marc defensively. He helped the knicks when 54 games that year
LeBron’s “elite” defense is possibly the biggest myth in the modern NBA. Not only do the stats not bear out that he ever deserved the award, his lack of defense in the last full decade erase anything positive he’s ever done defensively.
there is no way robert won all that
serge ibaka snubbed
Wemby should win it!
🎉❤
If anyone should've been DPOY other than Chandler in 2012, it should've been Dwight Howard or Garnett imo, real "defensive engines" for their teams. LeBron has never been a dawg like that a defense. Stop it!
Wemby should have won dpoy over Gobert in 2018 from kindergarten.
Gobert shouldnt have won in 2018, but the most egregious DPOY is still Marcus Smart from 2022, when he wasnt even the best defender on his own team
Yea they completely shocked me with that vote
Glad you cleared up 2013 but I would like to acknowledge Paul George who led the Lea in defensive win shares that year
Always kinda bums me out how.lebron basically gave up on playing defense by like 2017ish I know sometimes you gotta conserve energy for offense but damn.man
TRY!
do you actually watch basketball man... his defense obviously hasn't been all time great level because of his age but he never gave up playing defense. for fucks sake he was a lockdown machine in 2020
Wemby will win many...but should not win any year hos team misses the playoffs...including this year..they are like last