Great work Keith. Having bi directional control makes life easier at times while you still could have pulled down that circuit with your test light to verify bcm relay operation, helps and saves you from doing one more test.
Wow nice diag Keith! Why not just tie the two wires together and bypass the stupid steering column control module? Like they used to do it back in the day? But then again it's nice to get paid to program a new SCCM :)
I'm surprised that isn't in the BCM near the relay to protect the processor inside it. Or could it be that protection failed and the SCCM didn't like the high voltage coming back at it so it failed? Don't suppose there are any other Fords handy that you could test to see if the spike is "normal"?
A NY car without a horn is undriveable. It's a NYC law that you must sound the horn every 15 feet to warn drivers and pedestrians in the area that the vehicle is in motion.
@@NewLevelAuto - I live in MA, and use mine constantly. Of course, I have a 4-note setup out of a 70's Olds Toronado / Cadillac. Keeps the flow of traffic moving, since everyone falls asleep with their face in their phone at every light. 😁
@@SmittySmithsonite i just yell out the windows, although it's harder for idiots to hear in the newer silent vehicles.. So, if you're ever in Ohio and see some nuts looking fella with head out window yelling loud enough to hurt you ears and getting lots of attention, it could be me :))
Ok, since I don’t have all those fancy diagnostic toys, can I assume my steering column control module is bad but my bcm is good if my truck beeps when I lock the truck? I’ve verified that my horn fuse is good.
My cab light was leaking from heavy rain,and running down driver door side amd horn wont stop,its constant and if I unplug at horn its ok...please help
Looks like this is a common problem on the super duties mine is doing the same thing thanks for the info by the way the lights on the steering wheel intermittently on and offand the stereo lights does not work not sure if the stereo has anything to do with it but I'm sure the lights on the steering wheel does... This should be a recall
Barry Cavanaugh Eric who? The car guy? You do know he will be a famous film maker!😂😂😂😂. The other Eric is good, but man his videos are way too long. Cheers
There should be a diode in the BCM connecting the two control side terminals of the horn relay, in the opposite direction of current flow through the coil. This allows flyback voltage to "drain" to the battery positive thus preserving the steering column control module.
Nicely done as always. But I still question why they need to make such a simple thing so over engineered. Zero purpose for designs like that. Great video and diag Keith.
Have you ever seen a bidirectional test work on a Module but actual input lead to the module being triggered and the module not respond? Example: if you grounded that input manually to the BCM and the BCM not respond with triggering the horn.
HAD AN 05 NISSAN BLUEBIRD TODAY IN LIMP MODE , NO CODES CHECKED THE BASICS AND THE ENGINE PIDS WHERE FINE . THAN I TOOK A LOOK AT THE TRANSMISSION PIDS AND SAW THE NEUTRAL SAFETY SWITCH READING WERE VERY SLOW TO CHANGE FROM NEUTRAL TO DRIVE AND NEVER CHANGED TO SHOW LOW GEAR AT ALL I WAS GRAPHING IT ON THE LAUNCH . I ALSO NOTICED THE SPORT LIGHT ON THE DASH WOULD NOT TURN ON WITH THE CAR IN LIMP MODE I SHOULD HAVE SCOPED THE SIGNAL BUT YOU KNOW HOW IT GOES OUT HERE IN THE REAL WORLD THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS IN A RUSH . JUST CURIOUS TO KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT IT THANKS !
@@8power0 Sorry Bud im not familiar with the Bluebird. They dont sell that in the US. from the pictures i saw it looks like it might be the equivilant to the Maxima. What engine is in it and what type of transmission?
SORRY JUST GOT OFF WORK , THAT BLUE BIRD HAD A FOUR CYLINDER ENGINE AND I THINK IT WAS A VARIABLE TRANSMISSION THANKS VERY MUCH FOR RESPONDING LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR REPLY !
I just noticed your up to 20,000 subs, well done buddy. Without the background knowledge you have this would have thrown many people including me. Pretty cool.
Keith, Great video and thank you for the lesson! I know this is your livelihood but I agree with may out there that the over complexity of the modern vehicle is rediculous. God bless Paul
Keith great video as always didn't know if you could answer a question for me I currently have in my shop a 2011 Ram 1500 with high heater circuit codes on All 4 O2 sensors everything checks out as far as I can tell even controlling it with scan tool duty cycle ever ran into this before? Much appreciated
Yessir . And they use a voltage sense circuit just like the explorer that I show in video. When that circuit fails you'll have false codes. Not saying 100 percent that's it without me testing it , but I have had plenty with such a failure
Keith, you are worth every penny of cost you even need to surcharge. For real you are a beast 👊 if I was to have to hook up to my car all the guts would probably yell out FIX ME FIX ME 😁
Great video thanks brother. Another one of those I will have to remember if mine goes bad. Great information thanks for teaching us. Keep up the great work see you in the next video thanks again brother
I agree with some of the other comments,something kind of fishy about the whole set up .If it turns out to be interesting, could you post a follow up video after programming a new steering column module. Maybe have a look at the input and output traces then. Thanks Keith.
Keith, you are a man among men!! Knowledgeable! Informative! Helpful! Entertaining! Among other things!! But, you bring bad news!! I can't even blow my da$%horn, without helpful interference from some freakin computer!! I would love to slap whoever is responsible, but my "slap that bastard" control module is broken, and needs to be replaced!!! I wonder if you can do that for me??
Hmm, unresolved puzzles: 4:06 The horn switch "output" (SCCM input) is at about 10.5V, but the SCCM output (the upper trace, left voltage scale) appears to be at about 13V, or about 2.5V difference. So the SCCM is not passing the horn switch straight through from its input to output. We might expect the SCCM to contain at minimum a diode to allow either the horn switch or the microprocessor to pull down on the relay, but that would only make a max 0.7V difference, not 2.5V. So is the SCCM electronics more elaborate? But then at 5:18 the SCCM input voltage just tracks about 2.5V below the coil "flyback" (reverse EMF) waveform seen by the SCCM output. So the SCCM electronics (albeit presumed defective at this point) is behaving very simplistically, yet providing a consistent 2.5V difference. Odd. Furthermore, why is there even a 45V (well 32V on top of 13V) reverse EMF at all? Most relay driver circuits have a diode across the relay coil to shunt that current and limit the pulse to
Believe me when I say that the circuit design is always a puzzle that irks me at 3am when trying to sleep. You would think that a diode suppression alone would be such a simple idea , yet they chose not to do it . I understand the design, yet when faced with staring at the pcb layout I get flustered . And of course 90 percent of modules have a core charge and cannot be played with before handing them back .
@@flmmaz By pass-through, do you mean the SCCM literally has a wire (or pcb trace) connecting its horn input to its horn output, with no intervening electronics? If so, what do you make of 4:06 (no apparent pass through) versus 5:18 (the input tracks the ouput, as a pass through would, except with about 2.5V offset)?
I'm gonna have to do some thinkin' on this [Keith's videos always seem to do that to me :)] I have never opened up a SCCM, they are pretty robust and usually don't give issues. But yes, all internal circuitry is bypassed inside save for maybe a pcb trace. If the day would have been cooler the engine might have been off and the voltage on the steering wheel side would have been way below 10 volts. This would have made me curious as to what was going on under the clock spring itself (connection between SCCM and clock spring). As far as the flyback voltage showing up versus the ground signal not showing up on both sides.......I am curious and will investigate or......think on it.
If that were my truck, a wire would be bypassing that stupid module. Talk about unnecessary complexity. Ford taking engineering cues from Mercedes there ... Thanks for showing that - now I'll know what to expect on the newer stuff!🍻
Why do they all insist on running the simple stuff through a computer module !!! I'm going to bet that all the horn circuit in the SCCM is nothing but a single trace from CS input to SCCM horn output. I'd be interested to see if just sticking a jumper in place of your test leads makes the horn operate.
the 6.2 is an amazing engine, to bad this poor truck wont live past 10 years. Im sure it will rust out before that engine dies. if its having this issue this early that is kind of sad too.
WHY KEITH WHY , WHY TORTURE US WITH THE ONE VIDEO WHEN EVER THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR TIME SIR WE KNOW YOU ARE THE PEOPLE'S CHAMPION AND WE STILL HAVE FAITH !
First of all we could tell it was hot out why else would you be showing us real sexy legs... Exactly who the hell decided to make us horn switch that damn complicated that person should be fired along with all the managerial types that approved it reprogram the horn what the f
I had a question about that red ignition ring for testing ignition coil on the column does it always blink 2 seems to work good on christlers but on a couple gms I tested it on the light just comes on dim iam thinking a blink or a dull light it's still ok the cars all work
I have never thought of using an induction kick as part of diagnosis. Great job!
Well you resolved my issue and now I know I just won't have a horn. NFW I'm replacing that steering wheel control module.
Great work Keith. Having bi directional control makes life easier at times while you still could have pulled down that circuit with your test light to verify bcm relay operation, helps and saves you from doing one more test.
Wow nice diag Keith! Why not just tie the two wires together and bypass the stupid steering column control module? Like they used to do it back in the day? But then again it's nice to get paid to program a new SCCM :)
And to know if the new ScCM will have a suppression for that inductive kick 🤔
I'm surprised that isn't in the BCM near the relay to protect the processor inside it. Or could it be that protection failed and the SCCM didn't like the high voltage coming back at it so it failed? Don't suppose there are any other Fords handy that you could test to see if the spike is "normal"?
Killing it Keith! Find yourself some cars with AC!
A NY car without a horn is undriveable. It's a NYC law that you must sound the horn every 15 feet to warn drivers and pedestrians in the area that the vehicle is in motion.
I despise horns! I pressed mine twice last year , and that was to avoid people backing into me
The one on the wifes car gets used a few times, usually to get critters out of the road, plus that once a year inspection test...
@@NewLevelAuto - I live in MA, and use mine constantly. Of course, I have a 4-note setup out of a 70's Olds Toronado / Cadillac. Keeps the flow of traffic moving, since everyone falls asleep with their face in their phone at every light. 😁
i thought it was every 3' :))
@@SmittySmithsonite i just yell out the windows, although it's harder for idiots to hear in the newer silent vehicles..
So, if you're ever in Ohio and see some nuts looking fella with head out window yelling loud enough to hurt you ears and getting lots of attention, it could be me :))
20,000 subs. Congrats!
Thank you so much !
Thank you Keith. Good job. Have a blessed and safe week.
Keith love your work, I learn so much
Good Afternoon and thank you Keith!
Great explanation, Keith. Thanks for sharing. Would it also have been possible to bypass the SCCM with a jumper wire to ground?
Was thinking the same thing.
Ahhh yes ! Here's the truth . I made 2 videos , this one was after the first. In the first I explained that as well , but that's when Eric called 😑
@@NewLevelAuto I think he's after one of your hats to improve his videos lol
@@NewLevelAuto Eric was after Ice Cream right ?? ;)
@@NewLevelAuto Thanks Keith! Was he out of Honeycomb? 😉
Ok, since I don’t have all those fancy diagnostic toys, can I assume my steering column control module is bad but my bcm is good if my truck beeps when I lock the truck? I’ve verified that my horn fuse is good.
New Level Auto! One of the best, much appreciated!
this would be nearly impossible to figure out without wiring diagrams. component locators are very helpful too.
My cab light was leaking from heavy rain,and running down driver door side amd horn wont stop,its constant and if I unplug at horn its ok...please help
Now that was another learning lesson for me. Thanks Keith.
Keith I like this videos with some thorough explanation. I learned from it and it's good for slow processor like me! Thank you!
Subscribed!
Thanks so much !
Looks like this is a common problem on the super duties mine is doing the same thing thanks for the info by the way the lights on the steering wheel intermittently on and offand the stereo lights does not work not sure if the stereo has anything to do with it but I'm sure the lights on the steering wheel does... This should be a recall
Jeez, a horn circuit. Well done. Thanks!
Could you ground that Violet w/ green wire momentarily to check BCM ?
Fantastic horn diag for sure 👍🏻 brilliant
Ahhhh, the REAL New Level auto dude, not some cheap imitation! Sorry Eric! 😂
They make them better, in some ways, but now you need a Good scan tool to do anything!
lmao .
Barry Cavanaugh
Eric who? The car guy? You do know he will be a famous film maker!😂😂😂😂.
The other Eric is good, but man his videos are way too long. Cheers
There should be a diode in the BCM connecting the two control side terminals of the horn relay, in the opposite direction of current flow through the coil. This allows flyback voltage to "drain" to the battery positive thus preserving the steering column control module.
Nicely done as always. But I still question why they need to make such a simple thing so over engineered. Zero purpose for designs like that. Great video and diag Keith.
Have you ever seen a bidirectional test work on a Module but actual input lead to the module being triggered and the module not respond? Example: if you grounded that input manually to the BCM and the BCM not respond with triggering the horn.
HAD AN 05 NISSAN BLUEBIRD TODAY IN LIMP MODE , NO CODES CHECKED THE BASICS AND THE ENGINE PIDS WHERE FINE . THAN I TOOK A LOOK AT THE TRANSMISSION PIDS AND SAW THE NEUTRAL SAFETY SWITCH READING WERE VERY SLOW TO CHANGE FROM NEUTRAL TO DRIVE AND NEVER CHANGED TO SHOW LOW GEAR AT ALL I WAS GRAPHING IT ON THE LAUNCH . I ALSO NOTICED THE SPORT LIGHT ON THE DASH WOULD NOT TURN ON WITH THE CAR IN LIMP MODE I SHOULD HAVE SCOPED THE SIGNAL BUT YOU KNOW HOW IT GOES OUT HERE IN THE REAL WORLD THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS IN A RUSH . JUST CURIOUS TO KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT IT THANKS !
I sure have Hakim .
@@8power0 Sorry Bud im not familiar with the Bluebird. They dont sell that in the US. from the pictures i saw it looks like it might be the equivilant to the Maxima. What engine is in it and what type of transmission?
@@NewLevelAuto 👍
SORRY JUST GOT OFF WORK , THAT BLUE BIRD HAD A FOUR CYLINDER ENGINE AND I THINK IT WAS A VARIABLE TRANSMISSION THANKS VERY MUCH FOR RESPONDING LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR REPLY !
I just noticed your up to 20,000 subs, well done buddy. Without the background knowledge you have this would have thrown many people including me. Pretty cool.
Thanks Wyatt!
Keith,
Great video and thank you for the lesson! I know this is your livelihood but I agree with may out there that the over complexity of the modern vehicle is rediculous.
God bless
Paul
Keith great video as always didn't know if you could answer a question for me I currently have in my shop a 2011 Ram 1500 with high heater circuit codes on All 4 O2 sensors everything checks out as far as I can tell even controlling it with scan tool duty cycle ever ran into this before? Much appreciated
Yessir . And they use a voltage sense circuit just like the explorer that I show in video. When that circuit fails you'll have false codes. Not saying 100 percent that's it without me testing it , but I have had plenty with such a failure
Dude nice job😎
Keith, you are worth every penny of cost you even need to surcharge. For real you are a beast 👊 if I was to have to hook up to my car all the guts would probably yell out FIX ME FIX ME 😁
Good approach!
Thanks for the video.
Good job Keith, thanks for the video
Many thanks again. Good lesson for me. Take care.
Great video thanks brother. Another one of those I will have to remember if mine goes bad. Great information thanks for teaching us. Keep up the great work see you in the next video thanks again brother
Thx Keith, wow hotter than SW Florida... stay cool 😎
Great, as always!
Buzz lightyear says to woody the cowboy: MODULES....... STUPID MODULES EVERYWHERE.....
Great video Keith. Gotta love the humidity out there today. Is this a common F350 issue?
So the problem was. The clock spring?
Another great video, get Rocco to help you with the other cars.
I agree with some of the other comments,something kind of fishy about the whole set up .If it turns out to be interesting, could you post a follow up video after programming a new steering column module. Maybe have a look at the input and output traces then. Thanks Keith.
Will do 👍. What part was fishy to you exactly ?
you are the man!!
Well explained Keith! 😀👍
Terry , from you that means a LOT . I didn't want to misspeak on the inductive kick
Keith, you are a man among men!! Knowledgeable! Informative! Helpful! Entertaining! Among other things!! But, you bring bad news!! I can't even blow my da$%horn, without helpful interference from some freakin computer!! I would love to slap whoever is responsible, but my "slap that bastard" control module is broken, and needs to be replaced!!! I wonder if you can do that for me??
Hmm, unresolved puzzles: 4:06 The horn switch "output" (SCCM input) is at about 10.5V, but the SCCM output (the upper trace, left voltage scale) appears to be at about 13V, or about 2.5V difference. So the SCCM is not passing the horn switch straight through from its input to output. We might expect the SCCM to contain at minimum a diode to allow either the horn switch or the microprocessor to pull down on the relay, but that would only make a max 0.7V difference, not 2.5V. So is the SCCM electronics more elaborate? But then at 5:18 the SCCM input voltage just tracks about 2.5V below the coil "flyback" (reverse EMF) waveform seen by the SCCM output. So the SCCM electronics (albeit presumed defective at this point) is behaving very simplistically, yet providing a consistent 2.5V difference. Odd.
Furthermore, why is there even a 45V (well 32V on top of 13V) reverse EMF at all? Most relay driver circuits have a diode across the relay coil to shunt that current and limit the pulse to
Believe me when I say that the circuit design is always a puzzle that irks me at 3am when trying to sleep. You would think that a diode suppression alone would be such a simple idea , yet they chose not to do it . I understand the design, yet when faced with staring at the pcb layout I get flustered . And of course 90 percent of modules have a core charge and cannot be played with before handing them back .
The SCCM only provides a pass through for the horn, as well as the steering wheel switch illumination and air bag.
@@flmmaz By pass-through, do you mean the SCCM literally has a wire (or pcb trace) connecting its horn input to its horn output, with no intervening electronics? If so, what do you make of 4:06 (no apparent pass through) versus 5:18 (the input tracks the ouput, as a pass through would, except with about 2.5V offset)?
I'm gonna have to do some thinkin' on this [Keith's videos always seem to do that to me :)] I have never opened up a SCCM, they are pretty robust and usually don't give issues. But yes, all internal circuitry is bypassed inside save for maybe a pcb trace. If the day would have been cooler the engine might have been off and the voltage on the steering wheel side would have been way below 10 volts. This would have made me curious as to what was going on under the clock spring itself (connection between SCCM and clock spring). As far as the flyback voltage showing up versus the ground signal not showing up on both sides.......I am curious and will investigate or......think on it.
probably some alarm/keyless/immobilizer tie in cruft failed along the line....
thank you so much
If that were my truck, a wire would be bypassing that stupid module. Talk about unnecessary complexity. Ford taking engineering cues from Mercedes there ...
Thanks for showing that - now I'll know what to expect on the newer stuff!🍻
wow a horn module,whats next windshield module wont go into gear if dirty?
We have those already 🤣👍
Thank you!👍👍👍👍
i see that truck has a geo tab tracking divice on it plug in the obd plug
Why?
Nice!
Another fine video 😂😂😂😂
Why do they all insist on running the simple stuff through a computer module !!! I'm going to bet that all the horn circuit in the SCCM is nothing but a single trace from CS input to SCCM horn output. I'd be interested to see if just sticking a jumper in place of your test leads makes the horn operate.
I'd bet it would work.
I wonder why the inductive kick is seen on both sides? I’m just thinking out loud.
My guess.... to make more money off the failures. Lol. More things to go wrong.
try the launch to do pmi on the sccm
Not a chance bud. No margin for error in my business . Like using a pipe wrench on a hex bolt . Might work , might fail.
@@NewLevelAutodamn. we'll have keith perkins try haha
coming soon, 2013 F350, no wiper/turn/etc. further failed SCCM lol
I assume it all goes through there..
the 6.2 is an amazing engine, to bad this poor truck wont live past 10 years. Im sure it will rust out before that engine dies. if its having this issue this early that is kind of sad too.
Jeez Keith are you gonna recommend to install a dorman part in there!! ? Lol
😂
WHY KEITH WHY , WHY TORTURE US WITH THE ONE VIDEO WHEN EVER THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR TIME SIR WE KNOW YOU ARE THE PEOPLE'S CHAMPION AND WE STILL HAVE FAITH !
First of all we could tell it was hot out why else would you be showing us real sexy legs... Exactly who the hell decided to make us horn switch that damn complicated that person should be fired along with all the managerial types that approved it reprogram the horn what the f
Nice run through Keith. Cars piling up? You may need to take on an apprentice :)
Wish he was doing some type of contest. Titled " Who wants it more".
@@jasonc.4683 cmon now . You know you'd be one of the first I'd have in mind
@@NewLevelAuto Thank u SENSEI Keith. That's why I train everyday so I can be ready. Take care Amigo. Big hugs for little man
2013 and NO power windows?? :D
the day they go all manual controls and locks, is they day some folks will be happy and even debate buying something new.
A good working horn will save you a ton of money on brake work. :-)
👍👍
I had a question about that red ignition ring for testing ignition coil on the column does it always blink 2 seems to work good on christlers but on a couple gms I tested it on the light just comes on dim iam thinking a blink or a dull light it's still ok the cars all work
Yes . If there is any lighting at all it is working
@@NewLevelAuto thank u kieth
That is crazy,all that for a horn.LOL I Wonder what that is going to cost the customer?
I always seem to forget when a relay is part of the board.. How do you tell again from wiring diagram?
This one says non-servicable
Isn’t there a way to tell in the wiring diagram?? If it’s shaded a certain way? I don’t know I always forget..
just bypass that crap and use a horn button on the dash.
probably some magical "hor/honk" detector that will set check engine and make the vehicle pee itself :))
Yeah! 1st!
Slow down
Junk that turd before it really clunks out
Second 😎
2nd...😁