Laco fliegers overpriced? Talking to the man who gave my Laco Aachen a ONE STAR review
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ธ.ค. 2020
- I flip Laco fliegers and one of my ebay buyers gave the Laco Aachen he bought from me on a one star review. We talk about it and it turned into an interesting conversation about history, what we value in watches, and how he uses watches and even pocketwatches in his work as an emergency responder.
Laco Aachen 42
Laco Aachen 39
Laco Augsburg 42
Laco Augsburg 39
Laco Flieger
Laco Pilot's Watch Original
Laco Paderborn
Laco Munster
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Something about this discussion doesn't feel right. His main point is that a paramedic needs accurate time. Ok, yes, perhaps, sometimes. I'm an ER physician, I completely understand what he's talking about, but there's very few drugs that require precise timing from a watch. IV pumps do most of the calculations regarding timing for most drugs. So for those exceeding rare times, is he really relying on a mechanical wrist watch or pocket watch. All ERs and most ambulances have an inexpensive highly visible digital clock displayed for this reason. I wear an indestructible G-Shock at work (water exposure from washing my hands 50x/day, bumping into things all shift, babies slobbering on it, God knows what else getting on it, etc) and my nice mechanicals when not at work. Also, I don't think it's fare to complain about a movement in a review when you knew about the movement even before your purchase.
Whenever anyone leaves either a 5 star or a 1 star review, I automatically dismiss their opinion by approximately 90%. They are (most often) dealing in opinion hyperbole. Giving any working, non-damaged new item 1 star is ridiculous. That should be reserved for garbage; you should be able to describe 'why' with your words.
This buyer didn't do his research, and took his frustration out on the item. Poor behavior and completely unhelpful.
1/5 star it is not justifiable from my point of view, although the buyers provided solid points.
Sadly, the lowest value point is the movement but from what I know and read it is a workhorse.
After the first month of wear the watch can be brought to a watch service for calibration which will last for the years to come.
I will give you an example, for my father's 64th birthday I bought him a Seiko Fuyugeshiki with the 4R57;
His first feedback was that it lost 4 minutes in the first week.
I have informed and advised him to wait 1-2 months, then take note of the +/- and then see a watch service for calibration.
It is normal, this price range does not come with the benefit of an extended individual calibration in the factory.
The watch price feels to land in the excellent value ballpark especially with the seller's price/discount because,
it provides a beautifully finished case, sapphire, see through case back, clear dial and hands + you wear the closest thing to what the Luftwaffe wore in WW2.
Thats my opinion on this review and why this watch does not deserve this treatment.
Thank you to both for posting this!
Sorry for being late to the discussion. I just found your channel.
A really good discussion. You both make some excellent points about Miyota movements. I have a number of watches with 8000 series movements, including a Timex Marlin, a Bulova American Clipper, a Brooklyn Watch Co Gowanus, and Brillier Airborne for which I paid about $350. I also have an Islander #ISL-38 with a 9000 series movements.
I have to agree that they are not the most accurate of movements, but neither are the Seiko NH35 and NH36 movements. The other thing about Miyota movements is the level of noise. They are as well known for the rotor noise as Timex is for the loud ticking.
Ehm, I don't really get his point. You want your watch to be a great reliable and accurate tool? Then look no further than Casio F-91W. For the price of his Laco he could have got about 20 Casios. The argument he made about the battery which tends to die at a very unsuitable moment is laughable: it runs for about 10 years in Casios (okay, if you don't wanna rely on that, you could change it every half a year just in case).
I don't think that Lacos, or like any mechanical watch for that matter made in the 21st century is made with the goals he pursues 🤷♂️. So, simply put: you want a tool? Buy a Casio (if he doesn't wanna change the battery, there's solar models, too). You want something for your passion for watches? Buy a mechanical watch in the likes of the Laco Aachen. That's what they are made for anyway. No need to talk trash about a very reputable brand if you just spent the money for the wrong thing.
Also quartz watches tend to have low battery indicators when the second hand ticks 2 seconds instead of 1, theres eco drives and g shocks that are solar powered or he could have just got this regulated for peanuts.
But it’s easier to leave a 1star review. (And carry on wearing it🤣)
Great interview. I’m going to go look up that pocket watch.
I watched this video, and just purchased this watch from your eBay shop , that review is still there lol . you guys really made some good points there, to be honest, buyers would already know they are just buying a “look” or “ style for that price tag.
Interesting. I picked this model up myself.
I also have the Escapement Time 42mm type B flieger. Crazy how quality that is, especially at $95ish dollars. It actually has the NH35 movement. Chinese watch brands have stepped up big time. They are offering durability and accuracy at fraction of the price
Yeah, if people would trust Chinese brands the same way they trust the well-run microbrands using China to build their pieces they could be charging a lot more. That's the thing though, I still trust the microbrands more than the people that microbrands are buying their watches from... I think in the modern global economy a good brand is as much a QC and Customer Service layer more than it is a manufacturer. I trust that the good microbrands are holding their suppliers to a decent standard in a way that would be more difficult for me to do when ordering straight from China I guess.
@cr7sakib how is the quallity comparison Laco Vs Escapement time?
@@Visitor555 The case finishing is the big difference. The chinese version is polished and my two Lacos are sandblasted. The Lacos feel better, but I fully admit to paying for the name. They are better, but not 4x better than the chinese version.
If he wanted accuracy, check your phones clock...
I own a Laco Nurnberg, which is a predecessor of the Aachen and has a Miyota hand-wound movement. It's the same price range cheap watch as the Aachen, but it is running about 5 seconds ahead daily, which is great. But... when I bought it, it was running over a minute fast per day, and I had it serviced at Laco, so they fine tuned it. So, if the watch is beyond the advertised range of accuracy, have it sent to Laco for servicing, especially within warranty.
to be honest its very strange picking up low budget automatic when accurate time measurement is important. There is low budget miyota inside with accuracy around -10/+20 s/perday. Very strange to expect high accuracy. He had to pick up quartz instead for this money. And there are a lot of models for the same money with auto charging batteries also. Seems a person just do not investigate enough before buying.
Not sure if was around a year ago, but the Aachen is around now with a quartz movement at least, so would been a better fit for him
I just purchased a 47mm German made Aristo type B with a gorgeous blue sunburst dial and a Selitta sw 200 movement which gains about 2 seconds per day for under $500. Loving it so far.
I've never heard of Aristo I'll have to check them out where did you get yours ?
This guy: "why isn't my entry level movement not on chronometer's level of accuracy?"
Either get a quartz or prepare to pay for a chronometer movement
if you pay ~ 400 bucks for a watch, you at least want a watch with a tolerance of -10/+20.
@@noobfl here you'd be paying for the heritage, not for the accuracy. You can get a highly accurate quarz watch for less than that. I think the buyer should have spent more time doing research, or get a more accurate mechanical watch in the second hand market
@@noobfl btw I have the same movement and my watch stays within +5 seconds per day. I wonder if the seller's Laco contact get him uncalibrated watches for cheap
Laco comes in 3 different flavors. The basic Laco watches are very affordable about $400- $500 but are powered by Miyota 8215.
The other upscale watches within the firm are much more expensive as the are powered by ETA 2824 or Sellita (north of $1000). So there is a watch for every budget. And if you want a Chronograph version, you can opt for the Miyota which is affordable (Miyota Os10 quartz) or there is the Ronda 350D Quartz) both are affordable . If you want a Swiss automatic or mechanical engine, ETA or Sellita, depending on the model, b be prepared to pay premium. By the way if I seen the Laco site correctly and its photos, only the even numbered markings are lumed on the Uhr B.
Also they let you opt for the higher grade or elabore grade when choosing the Swiss movements. I think they have something for everyone and if you don’t like the cheaper movement, you can get the eta instead which is still not expensive.
For me this is a quirky addition to the collection with some nice memories attached (me and my daughter had a lovely trip to Pforzheim) but I have better watches for regulars wear so I got the Aachen- as it will likely only get worn when I wear a leather jacket and boots 🤣
I have a pretty big collection of watches including vintage Swiss, modern Swiss, as well as Japanese Seiko and Miyota movements, and of course, Quartz. So long as the watch runs and keeps reasonably good time, I really don't care about the national original or brand of the movement, at least on a day to day basis. It is a tougher call in the long run as it seems silly to service or repair a worn out entry level movement, but that is down the road.
I just got a Laco Flieger and I cannot complain so far about the watch at all. I would say that though the movement is cheap, it works, and keeps more than reasonable time. and it doesn't seem as if Laco cut corners anyplace else. Case seems solidly made dial looks great, even the strap has a nice feel to it.
And as far as I can tell, the cost of a Laco with a Swiss Selitta movement is a $900 upcharge over what I paid for the Aachen. And that is way too much.
FWIW, I had an Archimede type A Flieger with an ETA movement that doesn't feel as solidly made as this Laco, even though the ETA 2824 is objectively the better movement. But the fit and finish of the Laco is better.
Finally, as far as the guy giving the watch a bad review because of accuracy, I don;t think it is fair. First, it is possible he could take the watch to a watch maker and get it regulated. And second, if extreme accuracy is important for his job, and where lives might be lost that certainly qualifies, go quartz, or maybe Solar. I know these Fliegers were built at a time when extreme timing was important, but if the Germans had quartz technology then, I am sure they would have made them quartz.
Citizen eco drive makes some fantastic durable watches with no need to replace a battery. If I were an EMT, and I used regular quartz, I might get something iike a Victorinox. I have an older Swiss Army watch and the low battery warning went on for something like 2 or 3 months before I finally replaced the battery. The battery never actually died, but watching the seconds hand jump every 2 or 3 seconds was just annoying. So I finally replaced the battery.
I agreed what he mentioned about , I owned one same problem with it's, could I charge the movement ( engine)?
Actually made in germany is more strict than made in Switzerland... and what does the guy want man? he bought one of the cheapest Lacos and wants to perform like a more high grade watch?
Is the more expensive lacos with a sterile dial a good option for time keeping? Is it accurate? And whats the difference between the 800€ one and the 1200 and the 2000 dollar one?
I love my Aachen. Wore it so much the leather strap started to rot away. I Did buy it many years ago though when it was still mineral crystal and cost me ~$280 CAD. I would not buy it at its current inflated price. Any reviews of their 42-45mm manual winding authentic versions like the Dortmund and Paderborn?
What kind of price can I get for a Frankfurt?
Laco offers a very wide range of Fliegers at difference prices, as we know this is the budget model - spend a few thousand on a high end Model and he would have seen a big difference!
Just bought the 861290.2 version which in the first week is holding at -1 to -2 per day. I love the simplicity of the watch as it speaks to the heritage of its era… the rotor is my only moan as it rattles when it swings… I might just remove the rotor and make this piece a straight manual wind.
I get what the buyer is saying. At the end of the day, the Laco flieger is a tool watch and there is some expectation that they have higher accuracy, especially if it is an essential instrument for work. The looks are fine though,
Can this movement be regulated for a better accuracy?
Late to the party, but I have my Laco Augsburg regulated within a few seconds a day. It's not too difficult of a task and Laco generally does pretty well with them out of the factory. Also what drug that he's pushing by hand needs a particularly high degree of accuracy for the timing? Probably none. If you're off by a second in a 10 minute window, that's fine, and I doubt it was even close to that far off in reality. I think he was taking the stress of his job or buyer's remorse out on the product. When you need a watch as a paramedic, you go G-Shock. He ought to know.
I wonder why he doesnt get a citizen eco drive, you dont have to ever change the battery and because of its quartz movement its much more accurate and affordable.
If the paramedic is around of lot of electromagnetical fields that could effect the accuracy. He could have to demagnetise it. Checking his phone or having a smartwatch would probably been the safest for his patients. (If he means these seconds per day are as critical as he makes them out to be)
I bought my Laco 39mm Aachen. It is a super nice watch with a good level of accuracy. Pls note miyota says -20s to +40s. But it doesn't mean it will go +40s per day, it just means at certain positions, it may run at a max rate of +40s per day and at certain positions, it may run at a min rate of -20s per day. One never knows when and at what sort of exact, I mean exact position it will be running at the max n min rates. There will be countless positions when you are wearing it where it max n min out itself, or more max or more min. Try wearing it all the way for 2 straight weeks, you should see that it is pretty good. If indeed after 14 days, it advances by 9.33 minutes, which is equivalent to 40s per day for the past 14 days, then perhaps send it for a service
I also have the Laco and the escapement time homage and the escapement time, I hate to say, is the better watch. It loses about 5seconds a week! The Laco is 35seconds a day, I have a time grapher and have tried adjusting it and what a swine that is! The adjustment is so crude, I’m on my 3rd attempt very frustrating. Having said I was also not impressed with my beloved Oris big crown but it had a fine adjustment capability an I got it to within +/- 5seconds👍
I’m afraid few of his comments add up and are often contradictory . I suspect he had a petulant moment at spending 400 dollars when he could have done just a little research before hand . Most watch buyers seem to spend days and weeks mulling over their watch choices before buying , I know I do .
I think he also didn’t expect his unfair review to get such a response from the seller and ask him in an incredibly polite and courteous way to justify and explain why he gave such a negative assessment .
He bought the watch which seem a bit like him buying a horse and buggy and it’s vintage style but complaining its four legs isn’t a highly accurate movement to measure by .
The lesson I suppose is , do your research and don’t expect others to take the blame for irrational purchases we later regret ?
Typo” to measure mile per hour by” .
I love mine. It seems to be very accurate.
I have a Gotham railroad pocket watch. I love mine!
it sounds like to me;he did not grasp the concept of quality level v.s. price value 9you get get what you pay for ...
Thanks for sharing. Interesting discussion. I want to add a flieger to my collection, but I struggle to find a good value option. From one side you have Laco with very low value for money but heritage. On the other side, there are a bunch of Aliexpress options under 200 usd with no heritage but much better value. Still don't know what to do :(
The biggest problem with AliExpress brands is their credibility. Both in the brand repute sense, but also practically speaking I never know if an AliExpress brand is the same as it was last year or if the owners decided to cash in on whatever reputation they've built by starting to cheap out. Of course that's if the brand lasts that long. But no doubt there are some solid values to be had there.
Personally if I cared about value + accuracy I'd be going quartz every time. As a reseller I am biased but I think Lacos are solid value from the build quality and brand heritage perspective. (If you get a good discount, of course ;D) Citizen and Casio also have some nice flieger style designs, I believe (search Citizen Avion on Amazon) but they tend to have too much pride to just straight up copy the flieger layout too closely the way a Chinese brand would.
I have a Laco Dortmund 45mm handwind. Got it about 6 weeks ago, and when I first got it, it was 10 to 13 seconds fast per day, some days 10, some 13. Now after 6 weeks, it runs 7 to 10 spd fast. The past 3 days, its been 8 spd, so it seems to be getting more accurate. So we will see. But its a pretty cool watch, im not sorry I got it.
How is it now?
He should get a citizen eco-drive or other solar tech watch and not bother with the battery or the accuracy
I paid 125 dollars for the A dial San Martin "Blaue Stunde" with the 4R movement. Put it on a nice BluShark Nato. It is very well finished and at least on par with the Laco. The only thing missing is the onion crown. Which I don't like anyway. I did Also no branding on the dial feels more Flieger like. I do not think the Miyota powered Laco was worth the 410 dollars.
Hey guys im looking for a 42mm type b dial watch for reading time quickly while in flight training, any recommendations that are a tad more affordable?
Citizen Avion have Type B-inspired dials are can be found for under $200 with eco drive movement. Orient Flight is quartz and sub $100. Both of those are solid quality for the price IMO.
There are also a bunch of Chinese brands doing fliegers as well, Stuhrling, Parnis, etc. I don't really pay attention to those brands so I don't know which ones are actually decent quality.
@@grymckr thanks for the reply! Just saw it, ill look into those and if i still want the laco ill save up and buy it from you!
Sounds like the quartz version is what he should have gone for
Ha I’m looking at your page right now.
The 42mm LACO B type is on my wrist right now. It’s not a 1 star watch. More like a 2 to 3 star honestly. The Miyota 8215 is a crap movement for this watch. It’s got a ghost date just setting and the rotar spin is really loud and bad.
i mean who is buying mechanical watch for acuracy? He shoud buy some solar quartz in that price range. Service interval is longer than most of mechanical, he can get radio controlled time …. a things like citizen or casio will last him a life time, plus most of them have indicator of low energy cell
No matter what a $400 watch should not be losing or gaining that much time
@@adsrbad9733 true, he had not much luck with that watch, my Laco going like chronometr almost :-D but i would not pick that watch in Emt conditions….
@@whyFINAL yeah, or any mechanical watch probably. A good quartz is much better than any mechanical at time keeping. If battery dying is a concern then stuff like Citizen Eco Drive is a good pick.
When you spend $400 on a watch, you don’t want it to lose 40 seconds a day. I always wondered why Laco risks their brand name selling these cheap fliegers. I almost pulled the trigger on one of their more expensive offerings (Dortmund Bronze) but it being linked to their bargain basement line has kept me from buying so far.
I agree they seem kinda shady.
You sound like a watch snob.
Watches are easy enough to regulate, often without even opening the back you can use positional variance.
But I was grateful for a budget offering as this won’t be my every day watch, just a quirky piece in a smallish collection (single figures) that will be fine to wear for a day or two here and there.
If he called a $400 dollar cheap watch is expensive and compare to a timex, then no need to waste time to explain to him, he won’t understand. I have a laco pro and I still think it is a cheap watch. Wait until he take a look at Patek or AP, then he will start to understand what is expensive. $400 can’t even get a golden concept Apple Watch shell. Oh.. I forget, he can’t even afford a Apple Watch. 😂if accuracy is the concern, then I recommend him to get a Rolex, or if he thinks it is too expensive and can’t afford, then go for a grand seiko spring drive.
this Laco fliegers is overpriced if you are having expectations for accuracy, NH35 is not by far a better movement, it's definitely not 10 seconds a day, it's more like 30 seconds a day. If you want 10 seconds a day you can have that only with ETA 2824, or Selita, or Miyota 9015, but then again you will have to pay extra 200$ USD, you can have that from Laco if you will pay at least 900$,
paying for a brand name =too harch should be 2 star>>>
Well, for accuracy may take a quarz then? buying a low end movement and is disappointed for it not Chronograph quality idk, what he expected? Like buying a fiat 500 and crying it’s not a BMW…
I've heard that alot of EU countries have there watches made in China and assembled in the there country . France comes to mind .
You get what you pay for. And obviously the movement is not in-house German made. You pay the Flieger style period !
You buy quartz Laco pilot!😊better!💪
What about Russian Vostok movements? Accurate? Reliable?
It's like an AK. Reliable + easy to fix. Accuracy eh...
@@grymckr AK ??
@@johnny_bravo9990 AK-47 ;D
@@grymckr I'm from India. I have no doubt I'm getting no spares here!
Some are great some are mediocre. I love Vostok but like the guy said it’s like an AK. 😂
Aristo is a much better value, less than half the price & impeccable quaity
Most watches are overpriced. The Laco is about the history that they are cashing in on. 🤷♂️
Cheap movement at high price- good luck with that.
Gahh... don't buy an automatic if you want accuracy. Don't buy an automatic and compare it to a quartz for accuracy.
Most battery watches have an indicator for when the battery is running out plus there’s eco drive. So saying you want automatic for that reason seems odd.
This guy bought a watch that’s main selling points are not the movement, with a low grade movement that it sounds like he knew about before, he still wears the watch but gave it a 1 star review... is he Karen in disguise?
To be fair after listening to him, I’d rather he was saving lives than talking.
You don't get much for the money with Laco,like the laco black 42....no handwind,no screwdown crown,and water resistance like a $30 Timex...all that for $380 😆
It bugs me that it says "Made in Germany" when it clearly is not. (Just the case is.)
If you have researched these problems then why buy them
This guy is a liar and fantasist. I don’t think he’s a real paramedic. I’m an RN with a critical care background of 30+ years. There is no drug regime that requires a health care professional to need a watch 😂 The guy clearly knows nothing about watches either.
20-40 seconds a day would be destined for the garbage can in my house.... my $500 Seiko SARX045 runs a second or two fast a week when I wear it everyday...
I'd be giving the Laco a one star review also.... especially with jumpy hands.... what a POS.... especially for $400+ wow...
ah guess Elon Musk's words is true: "You can have a bachelor's degree and still remain an idiot".
Like ffs as a healthcare professional, WE NEVER discuss about bringing "mechanical" watches on the job. Go get a flippin' 10-quid Casio ffs!
Not saying a degree is the "end all be all", but you don't need a college degree to be an EMT.