I have a 1999 1200 Suzuki Bandit motorbike. It's a bit of a gas guzzler if it's ridden hard. Over the winter it's stood quit a bit and I was concerned about water separating out and rotting the tank out. So I started running on the higher octain more expensive fuel that it seems to runs smoother on. I'm in the habit of zeroing the trip when I fill up, I can mentally work out the mpg. It would normally return about 31-34 mpg. However I was shocked that with the more expensive fuel I was getting 38-42 mpg, when I worked it out I was getting a real saving using the more expensive fuel.
I have various classic cars and a modern family hack. the classics are generally more sportier models or modified. some years ago I tested the effect of running super and basic unleaded. The super gave me up to 10% better fuel economy for a 7-8% price premium, the engines were smoother and less soot was produced, which I put down to the greater number of additive. The more ethanol the less fuel efficiency according to Govt advice so that 10% advantage may be a little light. As I also require good quantities of fuel for horticultural machines I elected to just use super across the board. I must say that even the mowers have benefited, both running very well now for 35/38 years. I had to tear down one a couple of years ago for a (non-existent) problem and found the engine to be unworn and clinically clean inside. Due also to the lower ethanol super has much better storage capabilities that is a clear benefit for over winter storage. The issue with ethanol is that it is highly corrosive to brass, which is found in many classic fuel systems and I had one fuel pump give up after 12 months of ethanol use when my wallet overruled my logic on my Beetle.. What really concerns me is the corrosion of copper/brass/aluminium pipes and fittings as well as the rubber elements. If you must have ethanol then fit R9 fuel hose not R6 as this will guarantee survival. Esso, BP and Shell have all said that their super may not contain ethanol at all in some parts of the country and I believe that Esso lists specific garages that are ethanol free. In a recent test the super fuels all had around 2 1/2% ethanol despite being labelled E5 on the pumps, although it was not clear the location of the fuel supplies. At 2 1/2% ethanol I feel more comfortable with filling up. For me the results are clear and Super is the clear winner,
ESSO Supreme is ethanol free in most areas of the country. Even though it says E5 on the pump.. that just means "up to" 5%, which zero is. There is no official zero sticker so they must use E5 sticker. I do very little mileage in my classics so I always use ESSO Supreme if I can. And although pipes can be made of copper etc. the diaphragms/seals in old pumps and carbs are still rubber (which you mentioned), which will suffer over time.
Indeed! If you can, it’s definitely better to have as little ethanol as possible. I’m trying to keep classic motoring open to everyone and not too scary for people new to the joys of old cars!… hence the video theme. Thanks for the comment as always!
The same with BP E5. Ethanol has not got the calorific value of petrol hence less mpg and ethanol fuel is more likely to go bad if you don't use your car much. The final crazy thing is that it uses more energy to produce ethanol than it produces.
Me to, when i started driving in 1972, petrol was 35p per GALLON, i drove a Ford Zephry 6, when petrol went up to 50p a gallon I gave the car to my dad as I could not aford it on an mechanics apprentice wage
The other problem I have with Ethanol in non EFI cars is carburettor evaporation. Ethanol leaves behind an almost insoluble jelly substance that clogs fuel galleries, emulsion tubes and jets. It has become so bad with cars in my fleet that are infrequently driven that I have installed fuel shutoff valves that let me drain the carburettor dry before parking up. Prior to that it was ridiculous, removing the carb endlessly to strip and clean that rubbish out.
And that's why I like your videos, no BS, no personal agenda, you just give the facts and your opinion and let us decide. I remember all the hooha about unleaded when we changed to that and it all turned out well.
My car is a 2008 citroen c4 vtr, i started to use E10 but my mpg dropped, and engine did not run so smooth, so changed to the more expensive E5 and the mpg went back up and the motor runs more smoothly, they can stick there E10 fuel
It was costing me a fortune spending money at the petrol station ⛽️. After going to a classic car show I brought a brilliant gadget called a spitfire. This gadget was designed for the WW11 planes as petrol was so rubbish. It cost about £26 and takes all the rubbish out, better fuel, better running and lasts for about 10yrs. It is also great on new cars given better quality and mileage.
If you buy Esso Super, it doesn't have any ethanol added at all. You get better mpg which offsets the extra cost. Esso Super is sold as E5 but doesn't contain ANY (see their website if you don't believe me). I have to use ZERO ethanol because I lay my car up for months on end and the ethanol will absorb water.
If you read their website today, it says as of Sept 2023 they're phasing out ethanol-free fuel completely and their top-grade stuff may have up to 5% in.
Not a car I know but it runs on Petrol, my Vespa GTS 300. I have had three, the first one was a 2012 and I was running this when E10 came in. It was suposed to run on it but it lost power when I filled it up with E10 so I went on E5. My next 2018 Vespa came with two stickers next to the fuel cap. I ran it on E5 from the start but once when I couln’t get E5 I used E10 and guess what happened. You are right, it didn’t miss but it noticeably lost power when it was under presure. Now I have a 2022 GTS300, the engine has increased valve sizes, higher compresion amongst many other changes. I had to run for a while on E10 last month as my garage had run out of E5. Again I noticed the loss of power on hills, not by much but it is there.
7 of 8 of my vehicles are pre '91. All of them run fine on any fuel that I have bought. Other than the peugeot 205, that didn't run nicely for whatever reason on the tankful of petrol I bought in Ukraine one time.
Great video mate. Really easy for a foetus like me to understand and glad I'm now more aware of what to look for. Good to have a positive take on the future with the evidence to support it.
It really does depend on the car, like you say. I do tend to run mine on E5 just because of how they behave, the Maestro with its antique A series doesn't really care what you put in, though it seems a bit peppier on E5. The Princess, with its decidedly more modern O-series engine will not run nicely on E10 in hot weather, so rather than have a winter/summer tune, I just run it on E5 to reduce hassle. Economy seems about the same whatever I put in either of them. Not had the Lanchester running for long enough to know either way, but I suspect that thing will run on lightly fermented bin juice anyway.
E5 isn't noticeably different from E10 for performance in my modern VW 1.2TSI engined car, but I put it in every 5 fills or so as I understand the additives in Tesco Momentum fuels can help keep the injectors clean. I also generally use E5 over Winter in my (rather less modern) motorbike, because it is not used for weeks at a time, and I've read that it helps keep fuel 'fresher'. Honda say that all their bikes after 1992 can safely run on E10 petrol.
Here in Prague, it's E85 all the way. Was at the evening showing of the Czech Mille Miglia ... I wonder what hoses they use, and whether they've had to adjust other bits to keep their old machines running ...
Love how you are bringing our past to life. Quarterlights, dragging the window down, just to get a modicum of fresh air. Having done that, it's still hot, freshy hot, not sweaty hot.
e5 lead sub its ok 2 years ago i started on my 1960 minor brakes clutch usual stuff now i have come up against the indicators could you do a vid on them its becoming a night mare plus horn looks easy on chart but thanks great vids
Everyone can afford E5. You get much better consumption by far; and save your engine! What you spend on E5, you save by achieving extra fuel efficiency
What a coincidence! my Mondeo Mk4 has just sprung two leaks on the fuel feed line where there are no obvious chafing points! According to Ford, any vehicle built after about '92 should be totally compatible with E10, but I wonder! Could I ask your opinion please? Do you think there could be a connection or is it just one of those things? Interesting video by the way!
Id like to think a car of that age would be ok!... it could just be unfortunate, having said that, age does affect rubber and plastic and Ethanol is very good at finishing it off!
Interesting that the USA sells E85 now in a few places, apparently with 11 million flexifuel car engines on the road there that can cope with it. It's nothing new - the Model T Ford from 1908 could run on high ethanol mixes. I'm not quite sure how Minor and Reliant engines would cope with that. Seems odd that such fuel technology should be being introduced with electrification of cars supposedly just around the corner. Or maybe the future is not quite as electric as we think?
I AM MORE WORRIED ABOUT LOW EMISION I LIVE NEAR BRIGHTON THEY SAY THE LONDON CLASSIC CAR RUN WONT TAKE PLACE NEXT YEAR 2024 SO I WONT BE ABLE TO GO THROUGH IT NOW
I have a 1999 1200 Suzuki Bandit motorbike. It's a bit of a gas guzzler if it's ridden hard. Over the winter it's stood quit a bit and I was concerned about water separating out and rotting the tank out. So I started running on the higher octain more expensive fuel that it seems to runs smoother on. I'm in the habit of zeroing the trip when I fill up, I can mentally work out the mpg. It would normally return about 31-34 mpg. However I was shocked that with the more expensive fuel I was getting 38-42 mpg, when I worked it out I was getting a real saving using the more expensive fuel.
Years back 50/60s, there was a fuel called Cleveland Discol, it was sold as 'Cleveland Discol with Alcohol'
I have various classic cars and a modern family hack. the classics are generally more sportier models or modified. some years ago I tested the effect of running super and basic unleaded. The super gave me up to 10% better fuel economy for a 7-8% price premium, the engines were smoother and less soot was produced, which I put down to the greater number of additive. The more ethanol the less fuel efficiency according to Govt advice so that 10% advantage may be a little light. As I also require good quantities of fuel for horticultural machines I elected to just use super across the board. I must say that even the mowers have benefited, both running very well now for 35/38 years. I had to tear down one a couple of years ago for a (non-existent) problem and found the engine to be unworn and clinically clean inside. Due also to the lower ethanol super has much better storage capabilities that is a clear benefit for over winter storage.
The issue with ethanol is that it is highly corrosive to brass, which is found in many classic fuel systems and I had one fuel pump give up after 12 months of ethanol use when my wallet overruled my logic on my Beetle.. What really concerns me is the corrosion of copper/brass/aluminium pipes and fittings as well as the rubber elements. If you must have ethanol then fit R9 fuel hose not R6 as this will guarantee survival. Esso, BP and Shell have all said that their super may not contain ethanol at all in some parts of the country and I believe that Esso lists specific garages that are ethanol free. In a recent test the super fuels all had around 2 1/2% ethanol despite being labelled E5 on the pumps, although it was not clear the location of the fuel supplies. At 2 1/2% ethanol I feel more comfortable with filling up.
For me the results are clear and Super is the clear winner,
Thanks for watching, and the detailed comment. E5 is definitely better, but i like to keep things open for everybody!
ESSO Supreme is ethanol free in most areas of the country. Even though it says E5 on the pump.. that just means "up to" 5%, which zero is. There is no official zero sticker so they must use E5 sticker. I do very little mileage in my classics so I always use ESSO Supreme if I can. And although pipes can be made of copper etc. the diaphragms/seals in old pumps and carbs are still rubber (which you mentioned), which will suffer over time.
Indeed! If you can, it’s definitely better to have as little ethanol as possible. I’m trying to keep classic motoring open to everyone and not too scary for people new to the joys of old cars!… hence the video theme. Thanks for the comment as always!
The same with BP E5. Ethanol has not got the calorific value of petrol hence less mpg and ethanol fuel is more likely to go bad if you don't use your car much. The final crazy thing is that it uses more energy to produce ethanol than it produces.
That's useful to know, thank you.
Not any more, from September 2023 it contains ethanol up to 5% as the other brands
@@clivehaynes2183You sound surprised. It's a mad mad mad world out there.
i remember 2 star 3 star and 4 star petrol loved the smell thanks EDDDY LOL
Me to, when i started driving in 1972, petrol was 35p per GALLON, i drove a Ford Zephry 6, when petrol went up to 50p a gallon I gave the car to my dad as I could not aford it on an mechanics apprentice wage
Me to always reminding me of a long a road trip to Scotland.
The other problem I have with Ethanol in non EFI cars is carburettor evaporation. Ethanol leaves behind an almost insoluble jelly substance that clogs fuel galleries, emulsion tubes and jets.
It has become so bad with cars in my fleet that are infrequently driven that I have installed fuel shutoff valves that let me drain the carburettor dry before parking up.
Prior to that it was ridiculous, removing the carb endlessly to strip and clean that rubbish out.
It is the sitting that has the most affect!
Millers Ecomax 500 for petrol, upgrades even supermarket petrol - works a treat, even in an E-Type.
Analogous to the transition to unleaded fuel, thirty years ago. E5 is becoming difficult to get, too
And that's why I like your videos, no BS, no personal agenda, you just give the facts and your opinion and let us decide. I remember all the hooha about unleaded when we changed to that and it all turned out well.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed, and I appreciate the feedback as always.
Some good points there, have you experienced hot running engine wise? Thanks for the vlog
My car is a 2008 citroen c4 vtr, i started to use E10 but my mpg dropped, and engine did not run so smooth, so changed to the more expensive E5 and the mpg went back up and the motor runs more smoothly, they can stick there E10 fuel
It was costing me a fortune spending money at the petrol station ⛽️. After going to a classic car show I brought a brilliant gadget called a spitfire. This gadget was designed for the WW11 planes as petrol was so rubbish. It cost about £26 and takes all the rubbish out, better fuel, better running and lasts for about 10yrs. It is also great on new cars given better quality and mileage.
I want the stainless steel quarter light and top of the door frame to fit on my 63 Minor, Mines painted.
If you buy Esso Super, it doesn't have any ethanol added at all.
You get better mpg which offsets the extra cost.
Esso Super is sold as E5 but doesn't contain ANY (see their website if you don't believe me).
I have to use ZERO ethanol because I lay my car up for months on end and the ethanol will absorb water.
If you read their website today, it says as of Sept 2023 they're phasing out ethanol-free fuel completely and their top-grade stuff may have up to 5% in.
Not a car I know but it runs on Petrol, my Vespa GTS 300. I have had three, the first one was a 2012 and I was running this when E10 came in. It was suposed to run on it but it lost power when I filled it up with E10 so I went on E5. My next 2018 Vespa came with two stickers next to the fuel cap. I ran it on E5 from the start but once when I couln’t get E5 I used E10 and guess what happened. You are right, it didn’t miss but it noticeably lost power when it was under presure. Now I have a 2022 GTS300, the engine has increased valve sizes, higher compresion amongst many other changes. I had to run for a while on E10 last month as my garage had run out of E5. Again I noticed the loss of power on hills, not by much but it is there.
Copper Tube can 'Work Harden' and fracture when used on Engines for Fuel supply.
Cunifer brake Tube is better as it is 90%Copper and 10 % Steel.
7 of 8 of my vehicles are pre '91. All of them run fine on any fuel that I have bought. Other than the peugeot 205, that didn't run nicely for whatever reason on the tankful of petrol I bought in Ukraine one time.
Great video mate. Really easy for a foetus like me to understand and glad I'm now more aware of what to look for. Good to have a positive take on the future with the evidence to support it.
Glad you enjoyed! I always like to look at the positives side.
It really does depend on the car, like you say. I do tend to run mine on E5 just because of how they behave, the Maestro with its antique A series doesn't really care what you put in, though it seems a bit peppier on E5. The Princess, with its decidedly more modern O-series engine will not run nicely on E10 in hot weather, so rather than have a winter/summer tune, I just run it on E5 to reduce hassle. Economy seems about the same whatever I put in either of them. Not had the Lanchester running for long enough to know either way, but I suspect that thing will run on lightly fermented bin juice anyway.
Lightly fermented bin juice! love it!, thanks for watching, always best to find what works for you.
E5 isn't noticeably different from E10 for performance in my modern VW 1.2TSI engined car, but I put it in every 5 fills or so as I understand the additives in Tesco Momentum fuels can help keep the injectors clean. I also generally use E5 over Winter in my (rather less modern) motorbike, because it is not used for weeks at a time, and I've read that it helps keep fuel 'fresher'. Honda say that all their bikes after 1992 can safely run on E10 petrol.
for the A series you just need a lead tablet in the tank every so often keeps the valve guides and seats in better nick
@@simonjones7785 Those lead tablets are about as effective as homeopathy.
As soon as i could get my hands on a classic I would like to try almost pure ethanol if i can find it in good old Italy
Here in Prague, it's E85 all the way. Was at the evening showing of the Czech Mille Miglia ... I wonder what hoses they use, and whether they've had to adjust other bits to keep their old machines running ...
Love how you are bringing our past to life.
Quarterlights, dragging the window down, just to get a modicum of fresh air.
Having done that, it's still hot, freshy hot, not sweaty hot.
its a warm waft!
What a character… your videos really amuse me.
Thanks for watching, I’m glad you are amused!
e5 lead sub its ok 2 years ago i started on my 1960 minor brakes clutch usual stuff
now i have come up against the indicators could you do a vid on them its becoming a night mare plus horn looks easy on chart but thanks great vids
Everyone can afford E5. You get much better consumption by far; and save your engine! What you spend on E5, you save by achieving extra fuel efficiency
I remove the ethanol by putting water into the fuel and leaving it to separate than syphon the fuel off I was also looking at aviation fuel
Just run BP E5 - no ethanol.
What a coincidence! my Mondeo Mk4 has just sprung two leaks on the fuel feed line where there are no obvious chafing points! According to Ford, any vehicle built after about '92 should be totally compatible with E10, but I wonder! Could I ask your opinion please? Do you think there could be a connection or is it just one of those things? Interesting video by the way!
Id like to think a car of that age would be ok!... it could just be unfortunate, having said that, age does affect rubber and plastic and Ethanol is very good at finishing it off!
Interesting that the USA sells E85 now in a few places, apparently with 11 million flexifuel car engines on the road there that can cope with it. It's nothing new - the Model T Ford from 1908 could run on high ethanol mixes. I'm not quite sure how Minor and Reliant engines would cope with that. Seems odd that such fuel technology should be being introduced with electrification of cars supposedly just around the corner. Or maybe the future is not quite as electric as we think?
its not as electric as they like to make out... in my opinion!
I AM MORE WORRIED ABOUT LOW EMISION I LIVE NEAR BRIGHTON THEY SAY THE LONDON CLASSIC CAR RUN WONT TAKE PLACE NEXT YEAR 2024 SO I WONT BE ABLE TO GO THROUGH IT NOW
THATS EXATLY WHAT A QUARTER LIGHT WAS MADE FOR TO GIVE A SEMI FORCED DIRECTIONAL AIRFLOW
Take your hat of cooler then.
I hadn't thought of that...