My co-worker used to scrounge white styrofoam packing blocks and peanuts year round (big haul after Christmas), and dissolve it in acetone to make his own furniture finish. Worked out good on a bar top he built for a business. Great content and narration of the process!
Yeah, I always found it annoying when someone made something and we have to take their word for it, nothing else. Lmk if theres anything else you liked or something I can improve on, Thanks!
Well, many times the only sure way to prove one has that chemical is to send it off for chromatography or something else, which costs money. I will agree in general though, because as an amateur chemist, I would like to see how one can confirm they did something successfully for me to replicate, so I don't keep going with a contaminated or product dominated by the wrong pathway. I don't do any sensitive chemistry anyway due to limited space, but if if things were to stabilize it would be nice.
@@WheelerScientific well since i really liked the proof of succes and there aren't any notible channels that i can think of i'd like it if there was more focus on the analytical side, maybe a couple more shots of sample preperation or going a bit more into detail about operating the analytical equipment. i doubt there are many channels that have good quality videos on the operation of GCMS or FTIR machines so i think you could very easily fill that niche
Hi Wheeler Scientific, Nice video and presentation. I also love thermolysis and distillation of PS to get styrene useable for chemistry. I did it from OPS (oriented PS) from supermarket recipients used for herbs like coriander or mint. It is a garbage and is thus for recycling (altought it is not recyled by the garbage team despite into blue bags; they focus more onto PET recycling); they use it as an extra fuel for burning other garbage via incernaration (to spare them some heat) so it is essentialy free and only need to be recollected until ready for distillation ;o) ) It is easy to work with and to crush with a coffee grinder. The plastic also melts from its passage to 450-460°C and after distillation of a clear refringent liquid at 144°C, leaves a black tarry sticky residue goo of high molecular weight polyaromatic into the original flask; this can be cleaned easily from glasware with aceton (and evaporated again in the air to trow into the garbage (so the leftover - that they don't use - can be for the garbage team as an extra fuel). The clear liquid ideally should be derivatized so that it is no more styrene; otherwise upon storage, it will increase its MW and become more and more viscous until solid and back to a hard plastic PS, this is bad news for container. Keep on the good work. PHZ (PHILOU Zrealone from the Science Madness forum)
@Wheeler Scientific I know that styrene can be turned into benzoic acid by oxidation with potassium permanganate. But I wonder if it is possible to directly convert polystyrene into benzoic acid by refluxing it with potassium permanganate in the presence of a suitable solvent that is not affected by the permanganate. Do you think you could give it a try?
Hello, I am not sure of the ability to do that reaction in a one pot method, I believe it will require a two step process, making of the potassium benzoate then precipitating out benzoic acid with an acid. I did a video on benzoic acid a while back on the same process but with toluene, See th-cam.com/video/Ouvg7dM9lqc/w-d-xo.html
Fourier is pronounced "four-ee-eh" like how Canadians say eh. Excellent content though, I think about this every day because I work in a factory that makes stuff out of polystyrene and sometimes the ovens for forming the material jam up and it gets really hazy in the factory. Must be great for our long-term health 😅
Love this video, and thanks for including the cleanup, as that part can be challenging. Last I checked, any flavor of mass spectrometer, hooked to a gas chromatograph or otherwise, wa$ far out of r€a¢h for most people. Has that changed? FTIR might be easier from that perspective, or for the dedicated, a possible DIY project. The FT part is computationally trivial on any hardware a person could have access to, so that's not the hard part. Are instruments in your purview for this channel?
I thankfully have access to a lot of instrumental equipment due to my involvement with a local university. GC-MS is still quite outside the realm of accessibility for an average chemist. I would imagine building an IR device would be a straight forward process, but outside of my current skill set. I do want to cover more instrumental methods on this channel, working on a full video about NMR currently.
Ill just keep it in the fridge, I do not have any reactions planned with it so who knows if it will get used. I might put some BHT in it to keep it from polymerizing again.
If you mix up some copper and some calcium oxide you can decompose it to styrene with minimal side products. If you want benzene use a little bit of iron oxide. A little late but dont use your chemistry glass for this, use something you can throw out when done, save the glass for the purification steps 😂
Someone on the "that chemist" discord told me once before but I forgot the name of the inhibitor to prevent repolymerizaton? Do you remember the name of the common commercial one? Any would be helpful. Do you know if it works with aniline?
A common stabilizer is (BHT) butylated hydroxytoluene, it's used for stabilization of lots of chemicals due to the ease of removal from the stabilized chemical.
@@WheelerScientific yes that was it! thank you very much! does it also work with aniline? (I think this time I'll put it in my paper lab book instead of my phone notes)
Whoops, it looks like I added a "T" in Fourier when I said it.
A+ content. Product characterization is rare on chemistry youtube so having the GCMS and FTIR was excellent.
I agree.
Most of the YT chemists say "Trust me bro!". lol
My co-worker used to scrounge white styrofoam packing blocks and peanuts year round (big haul after Christmas), and dissolve it in acetone to make his own furniture finish. Worked out good on a bar top he built for a business. Great content and narration of the process!
finally a youtube chemists that shows actual data and proof they aquired their final end product
Yeah, I always found it annoying when someone made something and we have to take their word for it, nothing else. Lmk if theres anything else you liked or something I can improve on, Thanks!
Well, many times the only sure way to prove one has that chemical is to send it off for chromatography or something else, which costs money.
I will agree in general though, because as an amateur chemist, I would like to see how one can confirm they did something successfully for me to replicate, so I don't keep going with a contaminated or product dominated by the wrong pathway.
I don't do any sensitive chemistry anyway due to limited space, but if if things were to stabilize it would be nice.
@@WheelerScientific well since i really liked the proof of succes and there aren't any notible channels that i can think of i'd like it if there was more focus on the analytical side, maybe a couple more shots of sample preperation or going a bit more into detail about operating the analytical equipment.
i doubt there are many channels that have good quality videos on the operation of GCMS or FTIR machines so i think you could very easily fill that niche
@@WheelerScientific - "Trust me bro!". lol smh
Hi Wheeler Scientific,
Nice video and presentation.
I also love thermolysis and distillation of PS to get styrene useable for chemistry.
I did it from OPS (oriented PS) from supermarket recipients used for herbs like coriander or mint.
It is a garbage and is thus for recycling (altought it is not recyled by the garbage team despite into blue bags; they focus more onto PET recycling); they use it as an extra fuel for burning other garbage via incernaration (to spare them some heat) so it is essentialy free and only need to be recollected until ready for distillation ;o) )
It is easy to work with and to crush with a coffee grinder.
The plastic also melts from its passage to 450-460°C and after distillation of a clear refringent liquid at 144°C, leaves a black tarry sticky residue goo of high molecular weight polyaromatic into the original flask; this can be cleaned easily from glasware with aceton (and evaporated again in the air to trow into the garbage (so the leftover - that they don't use - can be for the garbage team as an extra fuel).
The clear liquid ideally should be derivatized so that it is no more styrene; otherwise upon storage, it will increase its MW and become more and more viscous until solid and back to a hard plastic PS, this is bad news for container.
Keep on the good work.
PHZ
(PHILOU Zrealone from the Science Madness forum)
Please tell me (6:44) that you meant to say FTIR means "Fourier-transform infrared spectroscopy" and not "Fortier transfer infrared spectroscopy".
Love that he provided the data
Great atleast you shown characterization.
I know not much people can afford characterization tools.
@Wheeler Scientific I know that styrene can be turned into benzoic acid by oxidation with potassium permanganate. But I wonder if it is possible to directly convert polystyrene into benzoic acid by refluxing it with potassium permanganate in the presence of a suitable solvent that is not affected by the permanganate. Do you think you could give it a try?
Hello, I am not sure of the ability to do that reaction in a one pot method, I believe it will require a two step process, making of the potassium benzoate then precipitating out benzoic acid with an acid. I did a video on benzoic acid a while back on the same process but with toluene, See th-cam.com/video/Ouvg7dM9lqc/w-d-xo.html
Fourier is pronounced "four-ee-eh" like how Canadians say eh. Excellent content though, I think about this every day because I work in a factory that makes stuff out of polystyrene and sometimes the ovens for forming the material jam up and it gets really hazy in the factory. Must be great for our long-term health 😅
great! some chemistry done in a proper lab
Could you do a higher pressure hydrothermal pyrolysis reaction too?
Love this video, and thanks for including the cleanup, as that part can be challenging.
Last I checked, any flavor of mass spectrometer, hooked to a gas chromatograph or otherwise, wa$ far out of r€a¢h for most people. Has that changed?
FTIR might be easier from that perspective, or for the dedicated, a possible DIY project. The FT part is computationally trivial on any hardware a person could have access to, so that's not the hard part. Are instruments in your purview for this channel?
I thankfully have access to a lot of instrumental equipment due to my involvement with a local university. GC-MS is still quite outside the realm of accessibility for an average chemist. I would imagine building an IR device would be a straight forward process, but outside of my current skill set. I do want to cover more instrumental methods on this channel, working on a full video about NMR currently.
How are you storing your styrene? Doesn't it need some stabilisator/ scavenger so no spontaneous polymerisation occurs?
Ill just keep it in the fridge, I do not have any reactions planned with it so who knows if it will get used. I might put some BHT in it to keep it from polymerizing again.
If you mix up some copper and some calcium oxide you can decompose it to styrene with minimal side products. If you want benzene use a little bit of iron oxide. A little late but dont use your chemistry glass for this, use something you can throw out when done, save the glass for the purification steps 😂
Best video ever!
You do a great job describing your process and I'm excited to see more! ⚗️
Did the tarry RBF actually clear up with the base bath? I would have expected the tar to be too persistent :/
It came out, just took a while, the flask needed to be moved around a bit to get all the gunk out.
"we can put it in a flask for destructive distillation"
I'm not a chemist and even I said good bye flask before the punchline.
Someone on the "that chemist" discord told me once before but I forgot the name of the inhibitor to prevent repolymerizaton? Do you remember the name of the common commercial one? Any would be helpful.
Do you know if it works with aniline?
A common stabilizer is (BHT) butylated hydroxytoluene, it's used for stabilization of lots of chemicals due to the ease of removal from the stabilized chemical.
@@WheelerScientific yes that was it! thank you very much! does it also work with aniline?
(I think this time I'll put it in my paper lab book instead of my phone notes)
So luck you have availability of such powerful instruments.
What would be the cost for the GC/MS per sample? I'm not a chemist but interested
Too much...
if styrene is refluxed do you think it would produce toluene?
Off the top of my head I don't know of a one step reaction for styrene to toluene.
You can try microwave assisted pyrolysis!
Mmm forbidden rosé
You need to look at the sound on this video as you are very very quiet. It would be worth normalising if you can.
Fourier is pronounced "foie-eah not four-E-er or four-tier as you said it.
Nice I did similar stuff 🎉
Thanks, It is a quite fun reaction.
i feel they are many jokes to be made about a process called " homolytic cleavage"
Be careful how you express your chirality in this hyppo-critic cancel culture.