DOGSHIP: Why Have We Forgotten The Most Common Interceptor Of The Cold War?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2023
- The most numerous all-weather interceptor of the Cold War is not the Deuce. It isn't the Voodoo, Flagon, Fishpot, Foxbat or Scorpion. It most certainly isn't the Ultimate Interceptor. No, the anchor of North American Air Defence in the 1950s was the F-86D Sabre Dog.
2500 Dogships were built in the early 1950s. It was a lightning fast, rocket armed single seat fighter that set speed records and sold a lot of Plymouths in its day. A quarter of all F-86 Sabres were actually Dogs. It was the second most numerous variant of that famous fighter and yet today it is generally just a footnote in the story.
In this video I take a long look at the Sabre Dog, try to uncover at least some of its mysteries and tell the tragic story of its only kill.
I hope you enjoy this episode. It is probably the most requested subject on the channel to date and I've tried to do it justice. Any comments and further information about the Sabre Dog would be much appreciated. I've been surprised by how little is out there.
Notes:
First big point is that I've deliberately confined this video to the 'D' and 'L' models of Sabre in US service. I'll cover cannon-armed Sabres in another video at some point
Sources:
There's good content on the Sabre Dog in this old website. It replicates some of the content in Wings Of Fame, Volume 10, which is worth picking up if you get the chance. www.joebaugher.com/usaf_fight...
Amazing detail on the fire control system can be found here: www.nop-betty.dk/Flyvevaabnet/...
Information on the weight and size of the radar and fire control system in this forum discussion: www.secretprojects.co.uk/thre...
Interesting photos and content: www.militaryfactory.com/aircr...
Fabulous footage of F-86D - watch this! • LT. Wilkes (1950s) Per...
Source for the B-17 story: eu.nwfdailynews.com/story/new...
Also in this Wikipedia article: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accid...
Nice video. Thanks. My dad flew p-47’s in WWII then F-86’s in Korea. After Korea, the units were transitioned to the F-86D and sent to Japan. I grew up in Chitose AFB watching the Dogs fly almost every day. My dad didn’t talk much about the aircraft except to say that most aircraft he had flown in his career had a complete multi-step checklist for engine fires. The F-86D engine fire check list simply said “eject, eject, eject”.
The simpler the better !
My grandpa had 2 accidents in the f-86d. One mid air collision, and one engine failure
Do you speak Japanese?
I’m asking bc I do. 😂
こんにちわ、初めまして。 lol.
Sorry but I am no longer able to speak Japanese. A few phrases occasionally pop up but for the most part, no.
I'm from Venezuela, and here in the late 50s or early 60s we got a full fleet of like 50+ F-86K Sabre dogs, ex-Lufftwaffe aircraft, and they were one of the very first radar capable machines in the country, but the fleet was so bad that there were many accidents and mishaps, and so many remained after they were replaced by the F-5 in the early 70s, that they're all around the country as static monuments, rumor has it that somewhere at Libertador Air Base, the country's main AB, there are some storaged in crates that were never built and are hidden and waiting to be assembled some day
"Watch for chutes, you got the wrong plane " genuinely caused me to intake breathe sharply 😢
Same here my jaw dropped like wait what?
Dick move that he didn't finish that story.
Edit - he finishes it. I was unaware of his story telling prowess.
I never realized how different the D model was from the rest. Sort of like a Hornet and Super Hornet; similar shape but really a different aircraft.
It's not unusual, by the time a plane model has gone through several iterations the difference between the original and most recent version can be quite dramatic.
The final Starfire is like that as well. It was almost given a different model number.
Same for the straightwing F-84 vs the F-84F sweptwing fighters. Really different airframes, the F-84F should have had a different number.
Good storytelling. A b17 with it's wing ripped off. I'm thinking it worked. And then "watch for chutes, you got the wrong plane". That broke my heart and ripped my guts out. I gave a 👍
Kinda needed some more explanation vs just going on with other info .
My Father worked on the Dogs in Japan in the mid-1950s). Lots of great stories! He was an aviation Fire Control Technician in the USAF. I joined the Navy in 79 as a Surface Ship Fire Control Technician, and my son served in the USN as a Submarine Fire Control Technician. In three generations we covered the Air, Surface, and Sub-surface Fire Control Mission! I retired from the Army National Guard as a Major in the Field Artillery so you could say we had Air Land and Sea covered!
Thank you and all your family for their service to our country.
S
*Top Notch Service and Work! Thank You!!!*
My mother's first husband (my older sisters Dad), flew and lost his life in the F86 Saber D. His name and rank was 1st Lt Alan R. Kauffman. He was with the 357th Interceptor Fighter Squadron stationed in Morocco in 1959.
While flying in a night training mission, his aircraft was the "target" aircraft. One of his last transmissions was that he was having trouble with his avionics before hitting the ground.
If this channel or anyone who has any useful input on my comment, I will gladly relay them to my sisters.
By the way, to the channel I thank you for sharing this video.
My dad was at Eglin AFB when this happened or shortly thereafter on his way to Korea. I remember him telling me about it when I was a kid. He was in no way involved in the test, but the tragedy obviously made an impression on everyone.
You are spot on in recognizing the odd gap in coverage of the the history air defense regarding the F-86D. It was not only numerically significant but the story is instructive of the long term cost of early production of new technology. You are doing a fine job, please continue your excellent series.
In 1957 and 58 I was an Intercept Tech Controller and the Dog's, with all their limitations, was my favorite interceptor of the time. We ran ninety degree beam intercepts with three in a flight flying in trail five miles each. It was good enough for one pass at a B-47 and B-52,, and we had fun with the B-36's when I arrived at Ellsworth in 1955. They really struglled getting over 40 angels.
Ninety degree beam intercepts required the GCI controller to have calculated a firing angle so he could set up the intercept way in advance of the final ninety degree heading.
The 740th AC&W squadron, Charlie Crew did have the honor of guiding the 54th FIS Dogs against General Crabb in a new F-102 and during an ORI. We got three splashes. He was the new ADC commander. We scrambled one and 13 got airborne without our knowledge, then the ORI team showed up.
He got on the channel a yelled BULLSHIT, I'm landing at Ellsworth and I want to see the camera film and I want everyone involved there. Wonderful days.
You always provide detail and scale of stories that no one else does. Thank you.
I accumulate 2165 hours in legacy Hornets. We regularly practice forward-quarter gunnery against a tiny banner. I never knew a squadron’s gun to fail. I would be much more comfortable shooting a bombers in the face than hitting him with unguided Zunis.
From 1960 to 1963, I was in ADC, stationed at Hancock Field, Syracuse, NY as a member of the Syracuse Air Defense Sector SAGE. The PA. ANG out of Pittsburg IAP were assigned to our sector, call sign NP (November Popa), flying F-86L's. In the summer of1961 or 1962, they deployed up to Handcock Field for their two-week annual training with the intent of running some air-to-air intercepts over Lake Ontario. On one such mission we sent a T-33 to tow a radar reflecting target drone along the south shore of the lake, traveling west to east from Buffalo, NY. The SAGE controller directed the F-86 to within 15 miles of the target where the pilot called radar contact; fire a salvo of inert missiles and hitting the T-33 rather than the target drone. The T-33 made it back to base full of holes and without its canopy.
I got my Private Pilot License flying from Hancock Field when the NYANG was flying A-10(s)! Used to see them in the pattern with me all the time.
In 1961 18 F-86Ds became the Philippine Air Force’s first all-weather interceptors. They were assigned to the 5th Fighter Wing’s 8th “Vampire” Interceptor Squadron.
How long were they in active service ?
Did you Filipinos reverse-engineered the spare parts...to keep it functioning for decades ?
@@peekaboopeekaboo1165 Their service was pretty short, from 1961 up to 1968. The Philippine Air Force had trouble maintaining the aircraft and were cannibalizing parts from some airframes to keep the others going. In 1967, 8 F-86Ds from the Taiwan were transffered to the Philippines. But by the next year the decision was made to retire all of the F-86Ds. By then the Air Force was already receiving the F-5s.
@@rooster4293
Too bad ...if Philippines maintained their F-86Ds ... they would've a big AF that can provide airspace coverage nationwide.
And maybe used the numerical superiority against Malaysia...to recover Sabah ?
There is an F-86D on display at the entrance to the municipal airport in Iowa City, Iowa. It is affectionately known to longtime residents as Old Jet. In the 1970s some geniuses in a community beautification group called Project Green had the jet hauled away as scrap. This led to a huge outcry from many. Not to mention the rude awakening the imbeciles received when the Air Force learned of the action. You see, the USAF still owns these old monuments. Old Jet was soon restored and it's still there today.
These so called "green" zealots are a monumental pain. Doing stupid things totally unrelated to their proposed agendas.
Rockets and missiles are only good in certain circumstances. They are best utilized on aircraft as complimentary weapons to cannon armaments. As proved during the Vietnam War.
@@keithdurose7057The Vietnam war happened 60 years ago. Missile technology has made one or two minor advancements since then.
You mean “affectionately”.
There is one in Chandler Az
The sabredog was an iconic image from my childhood. I had an special sympathy for it. I wished I had a model of it in my collection; unfortunately there was never one! IN those innocent days, I used to believe it was named "Sabredog" because of its long snout that resembled the one of a dog... I never imagined it was due to the "D" suffix of its model number.
Huh, that’s what I thought too.
My Dad flew F86Ds and then F86Ls from 1954 until 1959 when they ferried them to the bone yard. He never called it the Dog Saber. He always called it “The D”. He thought they were fast and liked the afterburner, didn’t like the radar sets as they either didn’t work or were insensitive. He complained they could pick out each other and had a tough time “painting the B47. However the B36s were a different story. Their sets lit up “like Christmas” from those 6 massive propeller blades. He flew with the 4th FIS and the 49th FIS . The 49th were based at Hanscom Field testing the SAGE systems because of their proximity to Lincoln Labs.
LOL first book I read for pleasure was on the F-86D flight control systems. My father was with the 134 IS in Vermont in the 50's. Have a box with all the manuals someplace around here. Read them all complete with foldout color coded diagrams. He was a crew chief back then went on to the B-36 and others have those manual too.
Ahhh the memories built 10 or so models of the "Sabre Dog"...
A lead collision pursuit curve is not designed to provide a head-on attack. It provides a quicker intercept than a pure pursuit curve in which the interceptor just points at the target. The aspect of the final engagement depends upon the relative positions of the interceptor and target when the intercept is initiated, as well as any maneuvering by the target.
My mom dated a guy who flew Sabre Dogs. I barely knew what it was. He seemed proud to have flown them. He saw it as an upgrade from the standard F-86.
My father had been a P-51 Mustang pilot in Europe during WWII. He transitioned to Lockheed P-80As at Williams Army Air Field, Arizona in 1947. In December of 1952 he graduated from F-86D school at Tyndall AFB, Florida. The F-86Ds he flew were very early -1 and -5 models. As you pointed out, the F-86D program was a mess, so from there dad was then sent to the 40th Fighter Squadron/35th Fighter Wing at Johnson Air Station, Japan (which was scheduled to receive F-86Ds) only to fly F-80Cs again for another year, thus making the 40th Fighter Squadron the very last active duty F-80 unit. In 1954 the squadron received hand me down F-86E models from squadrons in Korea that had received new F-86F models, and he didn't fly the F-86D again until 1955, just before he transferred back to the US to fly F-86Fs and F-100s in Indiana.. 40th Fighter Squadron F86Ds are pictured in this video at 15:50 and again later flying formation with a Japanese F-86F. To my mind, the cannon armed F-86K was a much better fighter for areas that had to contend with not only enemy bombers but also enemy fighters, since the F-86D would likely be almost useless in a dog fight. Ironically, 70 years later, they now make an infra-red guided 2.75 folding fin rocket. Something like that would've made the F-86D totally awesome! As an aside, the first 150 of what we now know as Lockheed T-33s were built and designated as TF-80C transition trainers and armed with two .50 cal machine guns (as were all the T-33A-1 models). Dad always loved flying the T-33s, because to him it was a 2 seat F-80. Thank you, for a most EXCELLENT video and the trip down memory lane!
My uncle and Dad flew f86ds post Korea in the states. Dad even crashed one on takeoff out of Chicago. His squad commander chopped him out w a fire axe. We still have photos and film of his time in service. Many uncertified maneuvers were mentioned...like "strafing" ski resorts is Wisc. and buzzing his home town in Iowa. Both men are gone now.
I am REALLY enjoying these videos on early Cold War jets. Please don't neglect the seaborne models.
Post WWII aviation is wild. I'm only now learning about it thanks to fantastic channels like this.
There is a Sabre Dog in a park at Peterson SFB. Ironically, the radar bay is home to a squadron of hornets that will intercept you if you get to close.
My Dad flew the 86D with the 86th Fighter Interceptor Squadron, Vienna, Ohio. I still have his Dash 1’s, Mach Buster pin and certification, along with other items. Your information is pretty accurate, although their biggest fear was blowing up when they lit the burner due to the electronic fuel control. Nice work.
My dad flew the F86L during his time in the 133rd Fighter Interceptor Squadron of the New Hampshire Air National Guard in the late 1950s. He always said he loved the F86, much better than the F-94s they had earlier. He related a tale of flying out on an alert one time, going Buster (full afterburner) all the way to get to the intercept area in time. In his opinion, the F86 was the best jet he ever flew. I tend to think the Dog nickname comes more from the early phoenetic alphabet than the planes flight characteristics. Dog was the military phoenetic for D during WW2.
Thanks for making this video! There’s an F-86D on display at Camp Mabry here in Austin, Texas. I’ve always been curious about them but haven’t ever been able to find too much information. This actually cleared up a question I had about that one on display, when I saw it up close I noticed a large square hole in the fuselage behind the nose gear, and assumed it was something related to mounting the plane on a pole like the F-4 and F-16 on display next to it. Turns out it's just the hole where the rocket tray used to be, I guess they removed it when they converted it to a display plane and never bothered to cover the hole.
I think part of the reason it's so forgotten is probably the same as a lot of the early jet age aircraft. They were only in service for a short period of time, and were quickly phased out in favor of better aircraft that then went on to be in service for much, much longer. I feel like a lot of the jets from the early 1950s are overshadowed by the century series aircraft, and even more so by the F-4.
One cool fact about those two top speed runs that the F-86D did, they were flown at an altitude of 125 feet. I bet going that fast and that low is quite a rush!
I grew up in Austin, and always thought there was something off about that Sabre...now I know it was a Sabre Dog!
Thanks for this series of videos about the forgotten early all weather fighters and the fears of successful Soviet penetration of our airspace. When I was a teen I was completely unaware of the Starfire, Scorpion, and Sabre Dog. It wasn't until I was almost 30 that I met a professor at my College that flew the Sabre Dog and told me about the electronic engine controls. He was a great guy. He also flew the F-104. He loved that one, but admitted that when you flew in burner mode, it ate up fuel like no one's business.
The fact that the F-86D was cheaper than the Starfire and Scorpion is a testament to the fact that the more you order of an aircraft, the cheaper the unit cost, and the more spare parts you have,(so you can keep them flying longer). When Congress or the a President cancels quantity production, like in the case of the B-2 and the F-22, it really makes unit cost balloon, and maintenance beyond a certain point become impossible. (I hear they are having to custom make replacement parts for the B-2 these days.) Contrast those two with the B-52 with unit costs in the tens of millions in TODAY'S DOLLARS, and spare parts available 50 YEARS LATER!
Chiming in to say i remember & appreciate the Sabredog very much still today, but you are absolutely right that most out there don't seem interested. Worse, many haven't even heard of it in the first place.
The Flight Surgeon flipping the bird to the Sabre pilot at 3:45 is hilarious.
quite a few birds were shown!😅
Probably Hawaiian...
I really like your coverage of these early Cold War aircraft. I was an Air Force kid growing up in the 1950s and 1960s and lived on or near numerous Air Force bases where the fighters you cover flew. I am very familiar with Eglin AFB. I have to say that the USAF's attitude towards accidents like the B-17 loss covered here did reflect a "there are casualties in war" mentality. The Service and society at large accepted testing and operational losses like these in a way that would not be tolerated today. WHAT did the investigation of this incident reveal? How in the world did they not plan for the possibility that the fighter would fail to distinguish between the drone and the manned B-17? (Shocking!)
You should give strong consideration to discussing SAC and the many losses of F-84Fs at places like Turner AFB in Albany, Georgia, where many pilots and A/C were lost due to problems with the J-65 engine. And, will you be covering SAC itself?
Excellent suggestion. The entire J-65 jet engine program was a disaster.
My Mrs. and I were at Eglin from late 82 - late 86. She was an officer, did engineering work at the Armament lab. I was a Reservist with the 919th at Duke Field.
@Redhand1949 You're being blinded by hindsight bias: How could they plan for something they didn't know could be a problem?
As my biodad (a Navy man) would have said: "This is why regulations are 'written in blood'." You get answers to questions you didn't know to ask because people died. Sometimes you just can't know what can go wrong with a super new and unique sort of situation until it happens: Just look at how many regs and laws were written because of the USS Juneau disaster and you can get a better grasp on the issue.
Yeah, hearing the description of the accident, I have to wonder: who the hell was responsible for planning that test? Because they failed SO HARD.
There should have been a chase aircraft with the interceptor, with eyes out the canopy- they could have visually confirmed they were on the correct target. There should have been an observer on the control aircraft doing the same. There should have been an electronic beacon to indicate which was which. There shouldn't have been a control aircraft anywhere near the target in the first place; the target should have been controlled from the ground or set to completely automated gyro steering during the intercept itself.
Excellent video as always! Thank you for the history lesson on a fighter that is virtually unknown by most today. I always enjoy learning about the history of the aircraft industry and military applications around the world.
On the subject of rocket-armed interceptors. The Douglas AIR-2 Genie (previous designation MB-1) was an unguided air-to-air rocket with a 1.5 kt W25 nuclear warhead,
While in service with the U.S. Air Force, the Genie was carried operationally on the F-89 Scorpion, F-101B Voodoo, and the F-106 Delta Dart. While the Genie was originally intended to be carried by the F-104 Starfighter using a unique 'trapeze' launching rail, the project never proceeded beyond the testing phase. Convair offered an upgrade of the F-102 Delta Dagger that would have been Genie-capable, but it too was not adopted. Operational use of the Genie was discontinued in 1988 with the retirement of the F-106 interceptor.
The only other Genie user was Canada, whose CF-101 Voodoos carried Genies until 1984 via a dual-key arrangement where the missiles were kept under United States custody, and released to Canada under circumstances requiring their use.
The F-102s carried a Genie operationally.
3:51 surprised the air force allowed film of those one finger salutes. excellent find in archival footage.
At least we're sure of the camaraderie of that wing! I also thought I'd seen wrong only to have them repeat it again a few seconds later.
Considering that the B-17 target plane was going to be flying close to the B-17 control plane, why did they not provide a way for the F-86D pilot to tell one from the other?
Surely locking onto the wrong plane was considered a possibility, as it was, in fact possible.
This was a significant problem. My 90 y/o dad was a USAF pilot in the early 50s, attached to Eglin's B-17 drone program. He flew the drone command planes (B-17) used for testing the original heat seeking ATA missiles. One of the stories he shared was about a demonstration of the new weapon system for top brass (and possibly some reporters), that were in the observer plane holding at the same altitude as the target drone. The pilot of the fighter rolled in on cue and -- you guessed it -- took out the wrong plane. I don't believe there were any survivors. I'll have to double-check on the location but I believe it happened at China Lake or Pt. Magu NAS.
Edit: It turns out that the incident was over the Gulf, and Life magazine reporters were also on the plane that perished. Needless to say, this was one of the worst PR disasters imaginable.
Early radar fire control systems were not anywhere nearly as precise as digital systems are today. Instead of showing individual contacts as discrete data objects, those analog systems just went with the strongest signal return and did its calculations on that. This is about good enough when the assumption is that anything the sensor is pointed at is an enemy, but as shown, can lead to tragedy when that is not the case.
I imagine this incident may have been part of what inspired the all orange paint scheme on drones.
@@albow4oops5 Nah. That had been done since the 30s. Mostly to make finding (the pieces of) them easier to find after destruction or getting lost.
It also would not help in this case because the test was of an instrument only engagement.
IFF will be invented later.
On the other hand, the F-86K with Cannons and Sidewinders was a substantial NATO aircraft in the late 50s and early 60s
I have a fondness for the F-86D because as a child we stopped at a small military park off I-89 in VT. My mother knew i was into military history and equipment. They had an old jet fighter parked there, i remember running around under it, and i remembered it well enough that when i looked it up years later i was able to tell it was a Saber Dog. I was also able to tell that they operated T-33s and F-102s out of Burlington just by my mother's description of the planes she saw landing as a girl.
Well done! My dear friend, Lt. Colonel Dick Miller, flew Sabre Dogs out of Perrin AFB in Texas in the fifties. He told me as soon as his F-86D's tires broke the pavement he was fuel critical.
My dad was a fire control radar technician at Suffolk County AFB on Long Island, NY from 54 - 57. He spent most of his time on the 86D.
About the same time, my father in law was a Scope Dope out at Montauk.
Cool video. Love those Cold War fighters. Good story of the F-86Ds. Well done. I'm retired USAF.
I once read a magazine article about the Dog and the challenges of operating it, which also described an exercise where the intercept system worked as advertised. The bomber crews were apparently jubilant that they had not seen a single interceptor, but were stunned when shown camera footage from the Sabres of multiple perfect firing passes.
I'm really digging your format, keep them comming!
Thanks for revealing why my dad bought that 1960 Plymouth. I had no idea.
I'm the one who added my dad's comments on flying the F-89 to your video on the Scorpion. Over the decades he's talked a lot about the F-89D as well. I asked him for comments on your production and he said "No comment for him. It is a good video. My only comments would be personal opinion, not suitable for a fact based product." I'll still add his clarification on the scope shots: "The scope shown is the attack display. The vertical line is the actual radar beam with the target. The two circles are computer generated steering command display. The gap in the one displays the closing speed by where the gap appears with the 12 o'clock position representing 0 knots and rotating clockwise with faster closing rates." He's always mentioned that the F-86D's 24 rockets, compared to the F-89's 104 made the Probability of Kill (PK) numbers incomparable. However, the 86D had much better performance.
I just returned from a trip to California to visit with him. Interesting that you discussed lead-collision intercept since he spoke to me at length about this during my visit. He described the "eight-ball". He said it was his responsibility, and that he only had a second or two, to either finish the attack by firing anyhow, or calling to break-off at the eight-ball. Any delay would result in colliding with the target. He said that during one exercise, as a matter of scoring, he was asked "Why did you break-off one run?" and his pilot piped up "We would have collided." End of questioning. With only one man in the 86D to do all the work, it was much more dicey.
Thanks again for giving an old Air Force puke a chance to relive the glory days of ADC!
Excellent storytelling as always mate! Thanks for this great episode!
Great video never knew all of this about the Saber Dog. My favorite F-86 variant of the F-86 series. So sad about the B-17 drone controller being shot down and the lives lost
Another gem of a video on a completely neglected topic!
Thank you very much for your excellent research and narration.
Another great vid on a overlooked subject. Love it 👍
In my humble opinion, the F86 was a most beautiful aircraft that looked like it was speeding along while parked. Granted, I was in school at the time but that impression still lingers today at 82.
3:52 those guys shooting the Finger at the pilots is hilarious. I'm kind of surprised that film managed to survive.
12:47 Holy shit.. My heart actually dropped. That's some amazing story telling.
Your content is fast becoming a favorite. Excellent research and a voice/script made for documentaries.
Keep up the good work. You've earned another subscriber.
Big fan of this channel, but DAAAYUUM 12:30 my mans really upped his story-telling ante. Chills baby, chills.
My introduction to the Sabre Dog was in the early 1960s in West Covina, CA. One was towed into our local park and (stripped of its engine, landing gear, electronics, weapons and controls) used as a jungle gym. Over the years, the plane was hollowed out and eventually covered with plaster to make it more kid friendly. The plane retained its "Californian Air Guard" signage until the plaster blotted out the origin of the machine.
Growing up, I used to play on the re-purposed plane, and knew from the shape that it was in the F86 family. I didn't know its honorable pedigree until viewing this video. Thanks for the info!
Just discovered your channel. Outstanding research, images and commentary. Well done!
Nicely done. Very informative. Thank you for presenting this and all your work to do so.
I like how the ground crew was giving all the pilots the finger as they taxied out. I wonder what the story is behind that?
Pilots probably overstressed the plane resulting in more work for the ground crew.
Love your videos man. Thanks and keep it up!
Another outstanding educational video. I really enjoy your work. Keep it up.
Fantastic video. I particularly like the calm pace of the narrator. Thank you so much from Amsterdam
I loved it when (as an Air Force brat), I saw that the F-86D had replaced the F-84 (which had replaced the F-51s) at Selfridge AFB MI, in the earlier 1950s. One of the Dog pilots showed this impressionable young man the manual for the fire-control radar. Thanks for the memories. Alan E. Diehl, Ph.D.
Agreed. Japan was obviously where these SaberDogs flew the most but they too are underrated here. I guess post-Korea pre-Vietnam era jets are often underrepresented.
In 1980's I worked with a former Hughes employee. He told the story of Howard Hughes around 1952 out on the ramp in coveralls with toolbox fixing a Dog radar that nobody else could get to work.
I ground crewed a F-86L in 1959 in Sioux City, Iowa. They closed the AFB and our squadron was moved to England AFB, Alexandria, LA. My favorite base. Soon afterward, me moved to Thule AFB in Greenland and The F-102A fighter.
Awesome video, can't wait for the follow up on the cannon armed F-86K Sabre Dog. I guess North American laid the groundwork for their end giving Convair the rocket tech.
Yes, looking forward to an episode on the Kilo! The RNlAF operated them as all weather interceptors, can’t wait for that episode.
Amazing Coverage
Thank You for This Great Work
I think the Dog Ship was an act of desperation, and more importantly, an exercise in how to intercept jet bombers. Hughes went on to make better versions of it's fire control system for the Convair delta wing interceptors (Dagger/Dart). Until Convair's Delta Dagger, we didn't have a very good interceptor. And even the Dagger had it's problems, though these problems were mostly applying area rule to the 102's airframe to get supersonic performanceout of it. It wasn't until the F106 Dart, that we had it right. The Dart was part of an elaborate ground control system that automated the intercept. But as your excellent video shows, that ground control system had it's infancy along with the Sabre Dog. So, like all of us guys, our baby pictures were a little embarrassing, especially when your woman is giggling while saying, "How Cute!".
Thank you that was both entertaining and very informative!!
@3:48, Gotta love the “one finger salute”😅
In the US phonetic alphabet of the time, ‘Dog’ was used for the letter D, so applying it to the jet, with its problems, was an easy jump.
Also, US pilots have a tradition of applying less-than-complementary nicknames to their aircraft, so ‘Dog’ would have been doubly easy.
You think the US nicknames their aircraft in an unflattering manner; Just see what they name the Soviet era jets...
It mustve helped that f-86d had a big dog nose
The F-35 'Fat Amy' would like to have a word
@@darkalman 😄
Loving your deep dives into relatively niche aircraft. 👍
Thanks for the video. Rare two ship formation of a D and F models over Mt. Fuji is very nice. JASDF had 40 of the D models in the 60s
I was the 12 year old son of a U. S. Air Force officer when our family was transferred to Komaki Air Base, Nagoya, Japan, in December, 1955. At that time the 39th Fighter Interceptor Squadron was based there with F-86Ds and at time frame 20:22 - there's a photo of 24038 with the "Cobra in the Clouds" squadron insignia on the vertical tail. Quite a happy surprise to see it! The up-swept squadron color was blue. Regarding the formation photo over Mt. Fuji, the red squadron color on the F-86D was from the 40th FIS based at Yokota Air Base in the Tokyo area. I think they converted to F-102As in 1959-1960. MY GOODNESS - IT ALL SEEMS LIKE A THOUSAND YEARS AGO!!!!! WELL DONE VIDEO!!!!!
@thomascowell859 My Dad was with the 40th FIS flying F-80s and later F-86E&D models. He later went to the Air Division HQ but was still assigned to the 40th FIS for flying. I'd bet our dads knew each other.
3:46 Damn, those kids sure look proud of themselves flipping each other off. lol...
Outstanding presentation
I was an enlisted man. From 1954-58 I trained at Lowry AFB and at Ethan Allen AFB to teach operation and maintenance of the Hughes E-4,5,6 Series System Fire Control. Joined an F-86D mobile training unit out of Chanute AFB and spent 11 months between Manston RAF Station in England, Wheelus Air Base in Tripoli, North Africa, and Nouasseur Air Depot in Morocco. I remember an F-86D pilot at Wheelus telling me that during a routine training flight he found himself suddenly boxed in by four F-100s who forced him to fly way out over the desert until he begged them to let him go before he ran out of fuel. I guess it's a big temptation to be a bully if you have the power. Another D pilot told us that they would give our radar system one chance to hit the target. If it failed, they would put a piece of chewing gum on the windshield and use that for a gunsight. Was he kidding me? I didn't think so at the time.
Thanks for the comment - very interesting. I've read that the F100 units often came from F80 or F86 units. Having wanted the afterburner and had to listen to the 'D' pilots for years, perhaps they decided to take their revenge!
I have heard the chewing gum comment in relation to the APG 30 radar in the F-86E and F... but it would not in anyway surprise me if it also applied to the 'D'. The level of complexity in that system was wild for the era.
This content is the internet realizing its potential as a means of education. Thanks. Liked and shared.
always loved the F-86D. great video.
we have an F86 (now in pieces) on base and i have a '56 Plymouth in the driveway. pretty neat to see them together!
Now that’s the dream!
Very good content on the saber dog. It was an equally favorite aircraft of mine next to the original F 86 series. It was uniquely different and I liked that.
Very sad that the controller aircraft was shot down in the loss of six of its crewmembers. I don’t think even painting the aircraft similar to what the bell aircraft had done for their “pinball” targets. With the attacking pilot, having to maintain eyes on the targeting radar, I really don’t think that a mishap like this was even conceived in someone’s mind. I’m quite sure that later on, doctrine changed to where the pilot would have to pop his head up every few moments to ensure that, he was staying on target with what needed to be hit.
I can imagine the nightmares that the pilot that shot down the control aircraft experienced.
Well done, I always thought the Sabre airframe was elegantly beautiful and deserved continued development, with the Fox dog being quite a looker. Sadly the technology was a dead end for it at that time. A great video of the time is the "Geiger Tigers" squadron and their move to Yuma AFB back in the day. Very cheeky but great vids of the airframe and gang in non official conduct. : )
First-rate writing. Really excellent content. Well done.
Never heard of this plane until I ran into one at the Greek war museum in Athens.
Holy shit. That took a dark turn after you described the test salvo. Well done. You’re an immensely talented historiographer and story teller.
Another fantastic video from what's become one of my favorite aviation channels.
For the Algorithm!
This is such an interesting period. Barely 10 years before the F-86D was being developed, an air force pilot could well be flying a biplane.
Interesting episode, thank you.
Grandpa flew Sabre dogs out of Misawa AFB in the late 50’s, thanks for the video
I am both impressed and appreciative of your detailed recounting of the development history of these iconic (to me) cold war aircraft. Especially your takes on the all-weather interceptor varieties. While I never had much fondness for the aesthetics of the Dog Saber, my own research has suggested it was much more capable than it's predecessors as reported in the esoteric files of Project Blue Book and NICAP reports. I don't know Whether the F-86D's apparent successes in these reports is a sign of growing competence in system maintenance and in operational training that took the E- and APG systems to their ultimate performance potential but my impression is that unlike the various versions of the F-94, the F-86D seems to have had a consistent history of being able to track unidentified aerial targets in the worst of conditions and apparently it's rocket salvo seems to have managed to destroy one of these unknown targets. In comparison the F-89 Scorpion (which like the F-94 at Otis AFB, may also have been abducted during the famous Kinross incident), appears to have either a history that remains classified or just wasn't as frequently engaged in such UFO scrambles which seems unlikely. We can only speculate about what may have transpired in these encounters but the reports have left me with the impression that the D represented a watershed evolution of USAF all weather interception of these most elusive of targets. Since you mentioned the 1953 F-94 Otis AFB incident, I suspect you are familiar with at least some of these reports. Any comment you would care to make would be much appreciated.
Very well told. I find your presentations of these pretty obscure stories engaging and hold my interest to the end. I've often wondered how the F-86D would do against a Mig -17. I didn't understand that it wasn't designed at all to do that kind of mission. It is a pity that we didn't arm the earlier F-86's with cannon to start with. There would have been a lot more dead Mig-15's.
One review of the Saber jet stated that with modern aviionics and an F-404 engine, it would still be a viable fighter today. Imagine backfitting and afterburning F-404, replacing the radar with the F-16's APG-68, Ripping out the rocket launcher and replacing it with an M-61 canon (Probably would have a blister pod) And hardpoints for AIM-9's and AMRAAM.
Just found your Channel, very cool videos. Good length aswell
Thank you! Glad you enjoy them!
Thanks for explaining this beautiful jet !
By this time, the aircraft were F-80 and F-84. The "P" designator was changed from Pursuit to Patrol.
Thanks for the comment. I do need to get more consistent in applying the right designations.
Great video again with some really unique footage, especially the JASDF F-86 and USAF Sabre dog in formation over Mt. Fuji. It would be interesting to have a video done on the Fiat G-91 with some emphasis on its conceptual likeness to the F-86. I would cast it as a dassault like interpretation of the Sabre.
Outstanding.
I always wondered why the radically different later F-86s weren't an entirely different model. Now, I know. Thank you!
My dad trained in F-86Ds at Perrin AFB Tx in 1956 and flew F-86Ls in the 56th Fighter Interceptor Squadron, Air Defense Command, at Wright-Patterson AFB Oh from 1957-58. The "pods" the F-86Ls that were "on alert" took off from, are still there. The hanger doors still protrude out to accommodate the noses of the F-86L. Apparently, the pods were originally sized for a previous fighter. Much like a firehouse, the pilots on alert lived in the hanger in case an alarm was sounded, and then they were supposed to jump into their planes and head north to intercept Russian bombers coming over the north pole. The pilot had enough fuel to make one pass on one bomber and return to base. The pilots were never ordered to do this, but it was pointed out that if they fired half their rockets at a bomber, they could use their remaining fuel to fire the other half of the rockets at a second bomber and ram a third bomber. The rationale was that they could stop three bombers from nuking three cities, rather than just saving one city. It was not lost on the pilots that they could save millions of lives if they gave their own lives for this. The F-86L was physically the same as the F-86D but had an updated radar unit. The 56th FIS had a distinctive black and yellow checkerboard design on the tail.
Thanks for the detailed comment - I found that really interesting. Another commenter pointed out that some F102 pilots were told to expect a one way trip that ended with ejection, so it seems that this sentiment carried over from the F86D/L community to the Deuce.
Great story, thanks.
The D wing was the wing and used on the Sabreliner ... the first "business jet". The gear was also used on the Sabreliner.
Cool! I had no idea about that!
My Dad flew the D from Okinawa Japan in '53-4. He had to bail out once ironically due to weather. He later got to fly or ride in one (2 seats)? in Brazil in the early 80's when down there on business. Never heard of the term "Dogship"!
Great video. There is a dog outside of Butte, Montana, always wondered about it.