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Elden Ring - Secrets of the Black Knives
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ค. 2023
- FromSoftware often revisits older design concepts in the newer games, so tracing the lineage of some NPCs can stretch quite a ways back. The Black Knife Assassins have some familiar aspects to them, but they still establish their own identity despite it.
Song used: Twilight Realm - The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess OST
Another potential member of the Black Knives' esteemed ancestry is Lord's Blade Ciaran, one of Gwyn's Four Knights, another assassin who hides her face. There's a fairly clear line between her and Dancer already, as Dancer's twin swords of Fire and Dark mirror Ciaran's Gold and Silver Tracers. Interestingly, she technically doesn't have a face either, because her character data references a Face ID that simply doesn't exist.
Dancer's scrapped smaller model does actually make a brief appearance in Dark Souls III, as a wandering spirit in Irithyll. An interesting bit of context for the screenshot where she seems to be non-hostile is that her AI refers to her as "PursuitHeroine", and "Heroine" specifically is a term sometimes associated with the level-up girls throughout the series.
Y
@@jimmyhan2329cuz
2:46 The reason why she has this unique model is FromSoft eye for details. This specific Blackknife Assassin never starts the fight with full HP. AFAIK she is the only boss to do so. Unless you count second Phases like Maliketh or Hoarah Loux as individual bosses.
so dancer mightve originally been intended as a parallel to the anor londo firekeeper?
The word "heroine" is usually used in japanese Visual Novel games to refer to any of the main female characters (that has her own "route" that the player can take). Also its use in japanese has extended to anime to similarly refer to any female relevant character. The fact the dancer was called "heroine" makes me think she was planned to have her own big quest line and probably her own ending as well...
I think it's important to note that although Ranni cooperated with them to murder Godwyn, the Black Knives are also more than happy to attack Iji and Blaidd, her counselors, and the player, if they should serve as Ranni's consort. Given the wounded Black Knife in the catacombs, Tiche's death, and Alecto's imprisonment, I think there's a betrayal somewhere in the background. But who betrayed whom?
My theory is that Marika orchestrated the Night and Ranni was meant to serve as a patsy. However, when Ranni carved the rune into herself, everything went to shit. Godwyn failed to die properly, Marika's scapegoat was gone, and a bunch of the Black Knives were even caught or killed in the act, just a fucking disaster for her.
Given that their ringleader Alecto is held in a prison on the Liurnia Plateau, right next to the Cathedral of Manus Celes where Ranni's Two Fingers resides, it's possible that Alecto is a hostage that the Fingers have been using to force other Black Knives to work for them against Ranni. So some of the Knives were captured by the Night's Cavalry and made to serve the Fingers, while others weren't captured and have just been on the run, trying to survive since the night of their conspiracy. That's just my theory though.
@@RamixTheRed That is basically my guess as well. To add to it, I don't think Godwyn's murder was Marika's intention, but rather Ranni conducting her own scheme to free herself of Fate without fully dying. Thus the mention of Marika's grief at Godwyn's death is genuine and she would have reason to send the Black Knife's after Ranni and her cohorts afterwards.
Now what exactly the original intention was in this scenario, I am unsure about.
I feel like pointing out that Iji's body is burning with Blackflame, rather than red Rune of Death energy. Given the presence of a Godskin Noble on the Divine Bridge of Liurnia, it is entirely possible that a stray Godskin attacked Iji, with the Black Knives strewn about him actually trying to defend him, but perishing. As for Blaidd, he simply goes insane due to the Two Fingers and attacks the Black Knives around him. If both parties were trying to kill Ranni on behalf of the fingers, I find the friendly fire somewhat strange.
@@LuciferLucklessNo, Alecto escaped from Leyndell in the night of the black knives and being protected from tiche and another assassin. She can't be imprisoned before that night.
The secret the black knives were hiding was the vision of 6 player limit and a rework to taunters tongue
Nah we need to launch an expedition right fucking now. I need them secrets
1:23 so these guys are NPC invaders?
@@aoiminase Indeed.
@aoiminase "hey reddit how do you beat these players??, these guys have been soo annoying to beat they try hard too much, btw I'm new, where is the opt out invasions??"
"What players?"
Seamless coop
The one in the capital is strange. The Black Knives were hounded from Leyndell after the assassination, and later on Morgott himself furnished the sentry torches to counter their invisibility, but yet there's one just sitting outside the Queen's bedchambers, fully visible, and practically next door to Morgott. Does she work for the new King, or is Morgott so busy astral projecting around to kill Tarnished and sulking at the foot of the Erdtree to notice a threat that close to him?
I might be wrng, but that Black Knife might be trying to infiltrate the capital to kill Morgott, but we, the player, get to her before she could get to him and finish her off. There are several Finger-readers corpses leading to her remember. I think she was in a killing spree in the capital just like us aiming to go to where Margott was, but she fell to us before she could finish her mission.
When you put it that way it does seem very suspect. But, maybe it can't pass the fog gate to the boss so he doesn't care? Rather I get that it could just jump around it, what I mean is maybe he's projecting some energy or field (boss fog) that keeps them out of the throne room.
That said, maybe she just got there right before you, murdered the old ladies, was worn out from the journey and rested (since it has that animation) and before she could go up the stairs, the player shows up to deal with Morgott.
She might have been reviewing her options, cause she's a single black knife and her chances weren't looking that great from around here.
No reason he's keep a black knife around, really
@@eliudesantos3237 thats a horrible black knife if I know one. No way one black knife is gonna murk a demigod.
@@abysswatcherbutibitethedus872granted they can't revive like the Tarnished, but we can use the exact same weapons and armor as them and still kill Morgott I would suspect she can too. Tiche as a spirit ash also shows just how deadly powerful the black knives are in battle against the demigods.
I wonder if the explanation for the injured Black Knife in the catacombs is that she was fought the original occupant of that room. The slashes could be from one of those shadowy guys with the mantis blades.
I'm choosing to assume she is simply another walking corpse, place was full of them.
@@Vahkitauti But this assassin is also the only one who doesn't start with a full healthbar in the fight, so that indicates the injuries were not lethal.
Spinning slash
@@SaHaRaSquadAh very well then, I did find it strange why no one else seemed to go for the simplest explanation.
There are remains of the same skeletons that you fight throughout that catacomb scattered around the boss room, makes me think she got locked in a room full of dozens of skeletons and managed to defeat all of them but was injured in the process. Maybe its just a generic catacomb asset though, and if thats the case I like your idea.
The severely injured BKA in Limgrave starts with a significant chunk of its health bar already gone, and uses only a fraction of the normal BKA moveset. It's the most unique one mechanically, so I think it makes sense that they gave it a unique model.
Here's my theory: Ranni used the Black Knives to assassinate Godwyn, and then betrayed them for fear of them turning on her as well. It would neatly explain why Alecto, the Blackknife Ringleader, is in an Evergaol that is locked way deep into Ranni's questline. That's why they wander the Lands Between seemingly without purpose: their leader was betrayed and imprisoned.
The thing is Ranni couldn't access the Plateau until you do her quest, and help her get past the Baleful Shadows that guard access to the Plateau for Ranni's Two Fingers. I think that Alecto is being held a prisoner of Ranni's Two Fingers, who are also on the Plateau in the Cathedral of Manus Celes (which roughly translates to "Celestial Hand") right next to Alecto's prison. And then perhaps with Alecto as a hostage, the Two Fingers have been able to coerce other captured Black Knives into helping them work against Ranni.
This makes me suspect that the Black Knives served Rykard in some capacity as well, as he's the other major player and potential mastermind behind the Night of the Black Knives. Rykard's involvement with the assassination of Godwyn is undeniable, and his grubby, ring-laden fingers are found all around the Lands Between, but noticeably, especially in Caria Manor. I suspect that either Ranni or Rykard got suspicious of the other and their sway over the Black Knives, and ended up attempting to clean them up as a variable, resulting in the imprisonment of Alecto, (I suspect either by Rykard himself, or through manipulation, by Ranni, since she can't access the top part of the Liurnian Plateau seemingly without your help)
I'm leaning toward the idea that the Black Knives worked for Ranni, but Rykard saw them as a threat to his own ends, and started hunting them down. We find none particularly close to Rykard, and his own people have a very different relationship to the rune of death, presenting a challenge to his dominance over it. It makes sense to me that Rykard would also have access to the plateau, as he seems aware of the underground areas, though not terribly concerned with them, content to just eat adventurers and hang out with his family at the Manor.
I think Rykard gave some kind of standing order to the Knives that end up pursuing Iji and Blaidd, and while Elden Ring's chronological triggers may not bear out the idea that Rykard directly orders the assassinations of Ranni's support network, I do kinda suspect it was a plan of his. Additionally, the Black Knives are ambiguous enough in their relationship to Rykard that I think it also gives him a degree of deniability, which lines up with how I perceive Rykard's scheming broadly.
@@LuciferLuckless But the Ranni we talk to is not the real Ranni, it's a doll. She burned her own body at the top of the Divine Tower of Liurnia. Blaidd holds the key to the Darkmoon Ring, which unlocks the gate behind Astel, and that ring is held in the bossroom of Ranni's mother. I would also say it's very unlikely that an order of assassins would go up against a demigod while their leader is being held hostage.
It should be said that our theories are not mutually exclusive. Ranni burned her real body to escape the will of the Two Fingers at the Roundtable Hold, transposing her soul to the doll instead. But what's to say that her soul isn't under some kind of influence of the Two Fingers at the bottom of Manus Celes instead? We won't know unless we learn who imprisoned Alecto.
@@SRFriso94 Ranni tells us explicitly that she and the Two Fingers hate each other. When we find her at Manus Celes, she's just finished killing them with the Fingerslayer Blade.
@@SRFriso94 Ranni's Two Fingers are the ones under Manus Celes. Those are the ones she has beef with, those are the ones she has you get the Fingerslayer Blade for, and those are the ones she kills for it. She slew her own flesh because she didn't want to become the next God like Marika, which is the destiny the Fingers wanted for her, and killing her body meant that she could never be used as a God, even against her own will. This is what made her and her Fingers eternal enemies.
Ranni almost certainly had access to the Plateau a long time ago, as it seems closely tied to the Carian Royal Family and you find personal items of Ranni's there, not to mention that there's a teleporter at one of the Three Sisters' Towers that takes you on the path to the Plateau. Also, since the Two Fingers of the Plateau, are Ranni's Two Fingers, she was probably made to visit them quite often when she was younger for their "guidance." But as soon as Ranni slew her own flesh, which was on the Night of Black Knives, she would have been unwelcome on the Plateau, so it seems unlikely that she had anything to do with capturing Alecto and the other Black Knives and imprisoning them on the Plateau.
Despite how annoying they are to fight, the Black Knives are very cool in design. It would be nice to learn more about them, even if it removes some of the mystery of their lore
Honestly we already know basically all the important things about them we can figure out very easily why they choose to kill godwyn and why they betrayed marika just by the information in this video if you want to know why i will tell you
They remind me of the Carthus enemies in DS3.
Annoying? But hammer go bonk and small woman die?
@@massimilianoreali4398one of the most fluid fights in the game they’re not annoying lmao
@@Alex-ht1dk i never said that and the word annoyng isn't even in the comment that i made
The Black Knife that you fight in Deathtouched Catacombs also spawns missing a decent chunk of its health already, so I'm pretty sure the visual change is just meant to reflect that she has definitely been in a fight, but it didn't go great.
Also something really strange I thought about before is the ones in Ordina. What makes them so weird is that they protect the Haligtree, a creation of Malenia and Miquella. The demigods that loved Godwin. Perhaps they're there as a kind of atonement for what they helped do? The Haligtree is a refuge for outcasts so perhaps those ones are outcasts from the other Black Knives, regretting what they've done? Just speculation, but still something interesting!
Those Black Knife Assassins in Ordina's Evergaol may have actually tried to infiltrate the Haligtree to murder Miquella and Malenia, only to be detected and sealed, at the cost of the town's population, in the nick of time.
It could also be that they intended on killing Miquella and Malenia, the two other Empyreans besides Ranni, but somehow got trapped in Ordina, and they attack the player because well, every fricking thing attacks us, so why not them aswell?
The Black Knife guarding the Sainted Hero's Grave gave me the same idea. And the one outside of Marika's bedchamber. I think they may have repented and dedicated themselves to the Golden Order after working to destroy it.
The one in Ordina probably moved on to a new master once their leader was sealed and Ranni seemingly abandoned the Knives, leaving them to make their own way in live.
the black knife corpse under the stairs in ordina indicates they're not protecting the haligtree but are trying to get in. unsuccessfully, of course
I think it's more like Miquella using them as prisoners to act as a line of defense
Fun fact there are 19 (or 20) black knives visible in Elden ring!
tiche.
Alecto.
1 spirit and corpse in Ordina.
4 in the Ordina evergaol.
1 before Marika’s bedchamber in royal capital.
3 around iji.
4 around Blaidd.
1 at the end of black knife catacombs.
1 hidden in death touched catacombs.
1 in front of sainted heroes grave.
1 at the end of sage’s cave.
And maaaaybe Melina.
Let it be known! I counted each one and now you have to know too!
I dont think Melina is a black knife, I think the reason she fights in the same way is FS hinting at the connection between Melina and Marika, since Marika is close to the Black Knife assasins.
Edit: The connection I am talking about is the Numen link between Melina and Marika, as the black knife fighting style that Melina also uses may be a Numen fighting style instead.
@@_Azulite_Marika fights nothing like the black knives and her main weapon is a hammer.
@@_Azulite_ that’s why I said maybe. The blade of calling is similar, she fights similarly, and has relations with death. But then again, she could also not be one. HOWEVER. I like round numbers. And 20 is a rounder number than 19. Also, she might be one.
Could be a Numen fighting style too. Melina is assumed to be the Gloam-eyed Queen, but who's to say she didn't train in the style of combat
Isnt there the corpse of one under a bridge in Ordina?
I think it's pretty cool Fromsoft decided to create a unique model for that early area boss.
The scars, the missing HP and the corpses lying besides the exhausted looking Assasin... this sort of environmental storytelling is awesome imo.
Ofc at the end these are all excuses to make the player fight such a strong enemy as early as possible without the player feeling like it's ( too) unfair lmao
I think it's so great how in this ocean of Elden Ring lore content you still manage to come up with something new and unique every time
Based on what the finger crone in the depths says - that Godwyn was supposed to be a martyr to destined death and die a true death - I always assumed that it was the fingers that orchestrated the death for some purpose of their own (the crones serve them AFAIK), and Ranni meddled with their plan and took advantage to pull off her stunt.
this actually might be the simplest explanation and it's hard to find fault in it. marika had the rune of death taken away and sealed from the godskins. the fingers/greater will didn't like that, so they had the fingers orchestrate a plan to kill godwyn. ranni, working with her brother rykard (radahn's involvement is nebulous or nonexistent) intervene to take advantage of the situation to kill her own body, and she tells us her reasoning for this choice clearly in the game; she hates the fingers and refuses to be controlled by them
@@MVCx_xB Yep, so far I only see Ranni using the Knifes to kill herself while they did their own thing and killed Godwyn. ANd after that they stayed as her enemy, as we see them kill Iji and attack Blaidd
Radahn's involvement is fairly conclusive to being against Rannis goals. He not only doesn't help her, he learns/masters an entire school of sorcery in Sellia to directly halt her plans (the stars).
furthermore, only once he's beaten can her plan resume.
its hard to tell Radahns ambitions, but he's clearly a self-styled supporter of the Golden Order; given by his armor set paying respects to his Fathers red mane(Radagon), and the Lion-esque motifs in his Armor (Godfrey)
@@MVCx_xB but wait, Malekith is a shadowbound beast, like Blaidd, so if the fingers didn't want Marika to seal the rune of death, couldn't they just command Malekith to not do that?
I don’t think Ranni would send assassins to kill her two closest friends to “tie up loose ends”. Literally one of her last words are about them is “tell blaidd and Iji, I love them”.
Or she thinks they were successful in "tying up loose ends" and would wait to ambush the player too.
Also, at Iji's death location, you see remnants of black flame which the Black Knife Assassins don't use (Their death magic is red).
It's possible that the Black Knives didn't even kill Iji and were instead trying to DEFEND him against the followers of the Black Flame. With the Godskin Apostles likely wanting to target Ranni who's on the precipice of ascending to Godhood by taking Marika's place in the Elden Ring. To which Iji would fight them to defend her.
That quote seems to be clearly acknowledging that they're about to die. Given Ranni's personality, I think it's entirely possible (and likely) she sent the Black Knifes after Blaidd, but notably, Iji is surrounded by blackflame, so it wasn't them who killed him. Interestingly, Rykard formed an alliance with the Godskins, who use the blackflame, as well as forming an alliance with Ranni herself. Make of that what you will.
@@tarille1043 Ranni is literally doing everything possible to *avoid* becoming like Marika. She explicitly doesn't want the Elden Ring at all, even giving up her Great Rune.
@@vyor8837 Yet at that point, she's waiting for you to summon her inside the Elden Ring so she can usher in her Age of Stars.
Just because she's not maintaining the Golden Order, doesn't means she's not replacing Marika.
She will still be inheriting Godhood, only instead of messing with the laws of nature like Marika and the Golden Order, she's going on a journey through the cosmos with her Elden Lord.
The Black Knife Assassin in Deathtouched Catacomb is injured both visually and HP-wise, becasue she had already killed the Erdtree Burial Watchdog (or Duelist) who was the original boss there.
She's injured to make the fight easier. AGermanSpy, who has worked on the official strategy guide for ER and multiple other FS titles with direct ties to them revealed so.
@@5chneemensch138yeah no shit, but theres always a logical explanation in this type of games
absolutely scrumptious content as always
My guess is the injured Assassin escaped from D, as he helps you fight another assassin within another catacomb shows he's probably hunting them.
It's interesting how Marika and Melina, as well as Alecto and Tiche have Greek names. Also keeping in mind the Black Knives are "scions of the eternal city", one can see the similarities in lower Nokron (ancient corinthian order temple ruins) and Mohgwyn Palace (basically the Parthenon), start to connect. Although I always thought Nokron was a metaphor for Atlantis of some sorts so I could be wrong.
Greek here. Never made these connections besides Mohgwyn palace somehow, I see it now. The black knife was my weapon of choice too in my playthrough lmfao
Let’s take it another step in:
Marika : Greek/Hungarian given or surname, diminutive of Maria. Maria is a Latin/Greek translation of Mary. Despite being a very benevolent name in Christianity, Mary means “rebelliousness” or “bitter,” among others. Fitting for the woman who fucked over the world out of spite and grief.
Melina: stems from the word méli, which means “honey.” Honey is used in medicine, and has historically been seen as a symbolism for divinity and richness, all of which tie in neatly to Melina’s healing powers and her status as one of Marika’s children. (Also, honey has a long and stable shelf life, which could also be argued as part of Melina’s healing powers, as her last act if she dies in combat is to hit you with a massive healing spell and potentially help you survive long enough to win against Morgott.)
Alecto: “Implacable, unceasing.” Alecto is the name of one of the three Furies of Greek mythology who acted on Hera’s command and drove Heracles to kill his own family, thus setting him on the path of his twelve trials. The Furies were also responsible for punishing the crimes of humanity. Specifically, Alecto was the punisher of moral crimes, with the other two Furies, Tisiphone and Megaera, being the punishers of murderers and infidelity, respectively.
Tiche: Also spelled Tyche, she was the Greek goddess of luck and good fortune. Her romanized counterpart is, naturally, Fortuna. Fittingly, Tiche is a ridiculously powerful summon to have at your disposal.
Well, Alecto is trapped in a Gaol inside Ranni's territory. Considering that by the time we arrive at the Plateau, kill her, and give Ranni the ring it's no wonder why the rest of the faction assassinated Iji and made an attempt on Blaidd.
I dunno, its possible to kill Alecto long after Iji and Blaidd are attacked, thats what I did in my playthrough
It would be cool to see a more center stage black knife boss in the DLC, since it seems to do with defying the outer gods and all that
I hope in Helphen we get to meet the soulless unnamed demigods who died during the Night of the Black Knives.
Beautiful and interesting work as usual Zullie! I made the Dancer connection myself on my playthrough but I had no idea FROM's love of veiled assassin women was so profound!
Black Knives are absolutely my favorite faction and thank you so much for covering them.
Thanks, the progression from the Forlorn to Dancer to the Black Knives feels very similar to Demon's Souls' Red-Eye Knights to Dark Souls' Black Knights to Elden Ring's Night's Cavalry. It's interesting to look back and trace these kinds of iterative designs across From's library. It's almost a similar feeling to seeing all the different versions of the same monsters across the Zelda series.
The excellent Tarnished Archaeologist channel has gone into the theory that Marika was original the equivalent of a vestal responsible for death rituals involving the sap of the Erdtree. When she took power, she consolidated and made herself the sole bestower of sap, which was now an important part of rebirth. She sealed the rune of death in an attempt to make a world of eternal life, and in so doing disenfranchised all of her peers. In many of the catacombs, you see statues of women without hands, and the theory goes that this consistency speaks to the statues being defaced to remove what the statues were holding, which was the same urn of sap that Marika is portrayed as using in the Erdtree Favor talismans. If that's true, then it becomes very likely the Black Knives are all women that knew Marika before she was queen and who she wrote out of history when she rose to power. It would also explain why you find so many black knives near places like the Hero Graves and in catacombs: Those are places where they had purpose as part of the funeral tradition of the age before the Erdtree.
Heroes graves happened during the age of the erdtree
"She took ar jobs!!!!" Black knight alecto probably.
Interestingly, Alecto (Endless Hatred) is name of one of 3 classic Furies/Erinyes, who hounded the enemies of gods, punished Hubris and those who committed murder or broke Greek cultural taboos. Their domain is revenge, vengeance, and dire retribution and they hounded the guilty with extreme prejudice.
It is said in mythology that Erinyes emerged from primordial goddess Nyx, or were perhaps her daughters. In later Aeneid they were fully recognized as daughters of Pluto/Hades and Nyx.
In older Greek myths Furies are called older cthonic/underground-dwelling powers, who predate Olympian gods and Zeus himself. Which ties well into Nox theme as underground dwelling Marika's kin who might be older than her.
This inspiration might hint that Black Knifes are led by 3 Ringleaders named after Furies of Greek mythology.
So in DLC we might yet encounter Alecto's sisters Tisiphone (Vengeful Destruction) or Megaera (Jealous Rage).
Orphic Hymn 68, dedicated to Erinyes describes also Black Knifes very well:
"Nightly, profound, in secret who retire, Tisiphone, Alecto, and Megara dire: Deep in a cavern merg'd, involv'd in night, near where Styx flows impervious to the sight; Ever attendant on mysterious rites, furious and fierce, whom Fate's dread law delights; Revenge and sorrows dire to you belong, hid in a savage veil, severe and strong, Terrific virgins, who forever dwell endu'd with various forms, in deepest hell."
I think that's a bit of a stretch to expect. One name might be some inspiration but all three would just be taking from one source and putting it somewhere else. The origin of the furies does make me wonder if they predated the Greek gods being worshiped, hence them being stated to predate the gods.
It would be cool to see more of what predated the outer gods and the elden ring but that might be too long ago.
This is an incredible connection, I was so enveloped in the European/Alchemical theme of ER that the Greek aspects never came to mind. The Hymn you mention describes Nokron very well, considering there are rivers traveling all around the city, like the Styx. And it makes sense too that the assassin ringleaders should be named after the spirits of vengeance. The Golden Order shunted the Eternal Cities underground, which devastated their religious practices. The fact they killed Godwyn, first son of the Golden Order, could've been an act of revenge too.
Tiche might represent Tisiphone in the Furies theme, meaning we're only missing Megaera.
So happy Zullie is back 😁
These bite sized engaging videos are the best
We know that the Black Knives are all of Marika’s original race, hailing from the Eternal Cities.
We also know that after Marika ascended to godhood she waged war against the Eternal Cities, forcing them underground, and separating them from the Night Sky; which holds great significance to them.
Between Marika betraying her original people, and Ranni’s ultimate goal of replacing the Golden Order with an Age of the Stars, it makes sense that the Black Knives would aid Ranni against Marika.
While Ranni could still be in control of the Black Knives, the fact that she seems to truly love her advisors and has the Black Knife leader trapped in an Evergaol implies to me that Ranni and the Black Knives had a falling out.
Did Ranni keep her plan to split the Cursemark of Death a secret from the Black Knives, and they turned on Ranni after they inadvertently created the Prince of Death as a byproduct of Ranni’s scheming?
Did Ranni imprison Alecto once her usefulness had ran out?
I think that the nature of the falling out between Ranni and the Black Knives is the only part of the Black Knives’ story that we have almost nothing to go on.
She refers to the blades as "godslaying," not "demi-godslaying," so perhaps they had a falling out because Ranni had intended for them to assassinate Marika and not Godwyn.
I personally think the assassins have no allegiance to anybody and simply operate as mercenaries or for hire.
I mean, afaik Marika is not referenced in any of the Cities’ lore (and viceversa), and the Nox seem to have a beef with the Greater Will in general and the Two Fingers in particular, not with her family.
I also find the idea that the Black Knives are Nox kinda strange: Rogier tells you that they come from the Eternal Cities once (in a pretty important piece of dialogue, granted, but once), while in the rest of the game they are consistently referred to as Numen coming from outside the Lands Between, like Marika and potentially the Tarnished: maybe Rogier is just mistaken (which would be weird, as he seems pretty knowledgeable on the argument), or maybe that line is a leftover from an older version of the plot.
My theory, anyway, is that the Black Knives are after Marika for something she did before coming to the Lands Between, back when she was “just” an Empyrean and not a goddess. Ranni simply gave them the means to take their revenge, and they executed it, at least in part, by killing Marika’s firstborn.
The 1.00 (and maybe network test?) versions of Elden Ring had very different item descriptions related to the Nox, and their internal names suggest that they were redesigned from their original purpose for some reason and possibly quite late in development. They used to be members of Marika's lineage, but are now described as a different race and civilization altogether. The Nox seem to be a very late addition to the lore and very disconnected from the wider world. We can't say for sure, but it seems likely that Rogier's singular line connecting the Numen to the Eternal Cities is outdated and incorrect.
It's interesting because I think if you interpret the destroyed Eternal City as Marika's original home then it makes some of the level design make a bit more sense. However they seem to have adapted the Cities and the Nox to the (possibly newer) story of the Fingerslayer Blade, so that Ranni has an ancient civilization to research to find ways to break the control of the Greater Will.
Interestingly, there is actually a Japanese urban legend about encountering a faceless woman while walking home in the dark. Possibly the inspiration for this. The manga Fuan no Tane features this and the woman in that has a face of blank rice wicker, resembling Dancer's veil a bit.
Great manga if you never want to sleep again.
…”if you never want to sleep again” …so true!
Some urban legend about a faceless woman isn't nearly enough of a connection to claim as an inspiration, there's tons of these around the world. Is there anything else besides being scary, a woman and the absence of a face?
@@anecroWell for one. FROMSOFT is based in Japan. And they have used other urban legends from their own country as inspiration before.
Its very easy to see in Sekiro, for obvious reasons.
I know of another one where the woman’s face isn’t so much nonexistent as it is covered by a mask, and she approaches you at night and asks if you think she’s pretty.
If you say no, you die.
If you say yes, she takes off her mask and shows you that her face is split into this horrible perma-grin, then asks if you still think she looks pretty.
If you say yes, you die.
If you say no, you also die.
Basically, the only winning move is not to play, but you’ll probably die anyways. She’s kind of a vicious little bitch.
@@anecro Being a common theme amongst many cultures actually reinforces my theory. Inspiration is only one brick in the foundation of a creation.
As a folklorist, I can only present one thought, true or not. And unless you got Miyazaki's phone number it's going to remain a theory.
I kinda want a black knife Assassin ncp, with a quest, they are too cool
i can imagine it wouldnt even speak. it would just ". . ." until you have the right item to give it like goldmask, and give you a reward and ability to run into it later
I want them to stomp on me
The lore behind the *placements* of enemies in this game, especially Black Knife Assassins, is really captivating…
Really gets my brain flowing😂
An interesting angle I often think about, since GRRM bases a LOT of his writing off real history and mythology, I wonder if the Black Knife assassins are based on anything.
Just the other day, I found out the inspiration for Eiglay being Eglé the Lithuanian Queen of Serpents.
There certainly isn't a shortage of material to be inspired from. As a historically interested person, particularlly over the bronze and early iron age in the near east and europe during the medieval times, there were a lot of moments where I drew connections to outdated practices and trains of thought. Stargazing being attributed to sorcery goes as far back as babylonian times, the main characters of the plot are representations of alchemical concepts, and so many enemies follow medieval and early mythology and corruptions of outdated religious practices
tarnished archaeologist has a good video on them, they are very clearly based on sicarii, a group of jewish assassins who wielded very similar daggers and actively fought against the romans.
I’m surprised you didn’t mention the assassin enemies from Demon’s Souls. The Secret Throwing Dagger is very similar to the Black Knives they use.
It's also worth noting that the one in the deathtouched catacombs starts with a good chunk of her healthbar already drained, which ties into her injuries
Something about faceless warriors is always so creepy. How can they fight or hear? Can we just not perceive their true face? Or maybe its some ghostly power.
I just find them hot ngl.
@@dadaeeaeeadada3301gang gang
Based
@@dadaeeaeeadada3301 Insert Rock Stare Gif here
I like to believe their hoods are magic allowing them to hide their face. since their armor gives us silent steps why wouldn't they be able imbue their hoods to make themselves look headless its a good way to conceal their identity if their invisibility failed them.
Does anyone else think it’s weird that despite Ranni repeatedly mentioning: stealing the rune of death; making black knives; and killing her own body, she never actually brings up the assassins or the Night of Black Knives in any of her dialogue? She doesn’t even mention Godwyn, either in a ‘sacrifices had to be made’ regretful way or a ‘he was a nuisance I had to get rid of’ way. The closest she gets is saying ‘I did it all’ but what even is ‘all’ in this context? Does she have a motive for killing him that gets mentioned by something else? I’m wondering if the assassins ever worked for her at all or if she just took advantage of a murder plot that was already in motion by then.
I’ve always sort of assumed she originally made the knives to kill her Two Fingers only to find out they weren’t strong enough and she had to get the Finger Slaying Blade from Nokron. The designs of the knives seem pretty similar. she killed herself as a plan B, thinking that would sever the connection to the Two Fingers (only to find out that didn’t work either but she was already dead by then). If she already knew a group planned to kill Demi-gods and she’s a Demi-god that wants to die, may as well give them what they want I guess?
One thing I also noticed is that Malenia the Severed dodges much the same way that Black Knife Assassins do. There could be a few reasons for this:
1. Malenia's mother is Numan and that's just how they move.
2. The blind swordsman wasn't the only person who trained Malenia.
3. The blind swordsman also trained the black knife assassins.
The blind swordsman training the black knife assasisns is a really interesting idea. His sword actually resembles the black knife in that they are similarly curved and have protrusions at the front and back of the blade
The location of the black knife armor leads me to believe Malenia trained the black knives. Miquella planned the night of the black knives along with Ranni. The golden epitaphs item description, along with the shadow of the erdtree teaser artwork sonewhat prove this. The item description implies he knew godwyn was going to die before it happened, whether he died a true death or not.
I love that you use Twilight Princess music for your videos. :)
whenever you upload i just become so much more happy, are you doing alright tho? happy and healthy?
So glad to have you back in full force!
Since Marika had a hand in the Shattering herself, it’s implied that she too had part in the Black Knives’ assassination… or she and Ranni conspired together but maybe had a falling out which lead to being targeted as Ranni sought her own ascension (and maybe Marika hs plans for Melina swing as she needs to burn the thorns for her mother to escape).
"Hand in the shattering"
She was the primary cause of it
I just want to say the use of the Twiilight Princess soundtrack for these videos really hits with me. Love your content, thank you.
Really enjoying the restarting of your content. High quality as always, and great topics all around
Black knives are my favorite faction in the game! they're agile, mysterious, and cool as hell!
1:47 Ngl, the Dancer looks much less ominous when you can see that she's actually flailing wildly as she falls, as if Miyazaki himself just randomly pushed her into a portal after a surprise promotion
“Congrats, you’re a boss fight now!”
“Wait, wha-HURK!”
It took me several playthroughs to realize the Dancer was probably consumed by Aldritch and is escaping his filth after you defeat Aldritch, and the Dancer falls from the pool of ooze (Aldritchs "body") that fills the room above the encounter.
I love the Black Knifes, they're so badass and have a great sense of style
Zullie thanks for unloading again you’re the TH-camr who got me into Elden Ring!
The veil is also important to making the player silent when the armor is equipped. If you remove the veil, you lose the silence buff.
I feel like the motivations of the black knives are the most interesting bit of the lore of ER. They're Numen from the Eternal Cities and appear aligned to Marika but at the same time seem to stand against the Golden Order. Why they then decide to attack Blaidd and Iji confuses me. Ranni doesnt appear to control them so were they after some sort of revenge?
Actually is very easy to understand why they do this just using the information that are in this video if you want to know i will tell you
@@massimilianoreali4398I would like to know.
The simplest answer seems to be that they oppose all gods and empyreans, and only teamed up with Ranni to get Destined Death.
@@carlschrappen9712 we know that they are numen but the numen are descendant of the enemies number one of the greater will so when marika a numen became the vessel of the greater will they was furious at her for opposing his species also the chief of the black assassin alecto have the name of one of the three personification of revenge in the greek mithology suggesting that was her that pointed to godwyn because it was the perfect son of marika meanwhile they attacked iji and blaidd probably because ranni didn't help them after killing godwyn in fact they was abandoned and hunted so when ranni started to get near to his goal they attacked them for revenge
@@massimilianoreali4398EHHHH ❌ Try again
Excellent choice of music! Love to see you enjoying making lore content again Zullie!
So glad to have u back
Bring the fine china, Zullie just uploaded a video.
Here's a thing to consider: The similarities to Melina could mean that the Black Knives, "Numen women with ties to Queen Marika", may in fact be her daughters. After all, the exact nature of that tie is never specified.
I think the ties means simply that they are of the same species in the end we already know that marika is a numen
Marika needs to stop having so many kids 😆
It would be cool if the explanation there is them being her original daughters, before the greater will made her queen, when she was just living between her Numen people. Her original children, without any grand super powers and mutations. All that could've been erased from history in favor of turning her into the queen she was meant to be.
Or perhaps...
Her sisters.
“After all, the exact nature of that tie is never specified.” Which is exactly why we shouldn’t make random assumptions based on nothing.
Always love your music choices. This one was haunting
The connection between the Black Knives and Melina is so awesome! I never would have noticed that without your video. Fantastic work!
I love the concept of veiled female warriors. i always wear dancer and balck knife armor on ds3 and elden ring, they fits my girl very well
I've long taken issue with the idea that the Black Knives' killed Ijji. His corpse is enwreathed in Black Flame; not the death effect that the Black Knives utilize. I firmly believe it more likely that Ijji is killed by Godskins, and the dead Knives were there in his defense. Blaidd likely killed the Knives by Ranni's Rise, but Blaidd has lost control of his own body by then, and them trying to keep him off Ranni's trail makes sense.
What do godskins care for Iji or Ranni at this point? Black flame is pretty much a weakened form of Destined Death, and I believe it was just burning out when we discover iji’s corpse, thus explaining why at that point it’s black flame. I mean he’s literally surrounded by black knife assassins who wield that power.
Yh but they also attack us and we serve her as well
@@Liam-pi9vi Why would the Godskins, who's entire purpose is to kill gods, care about Ranni? The Demi-god on the verge of ascending to Godhood by replacing Marika in the Elden Ring?
Hmm... I wonder...
@@Liam-pi9vi I don't think we can just go ahead and assume the red flame withers away into black flame, it's pretty clear that they're 2 different types that don't really intertwine like that, at least in my opinion. Same source, but they're 2 different things, you can't have one just become the other by waiting.
Unless I'm forgetting something.
Love your content Zullie, missed your videos. Welcome back!
Dang I love these lore videos, the presentation cast the perfect tone of somber mystery and wonder I felt while in the world of elden ring, ty
I love the black knives armor so much i literally roleplayed a whole playthrough as one
Mixing it with the Blue-Silver set from the albinauric archers is good fashion
@@Mare_Man fuck the albinaurics weak ass impure bitches lol.
No but to be serious for a second i havent played elden ring in like months , im really just waiting for dlc with my lvl 260 ng+ character
Edit: ok now that im thinking about it i did Play it a few weeks ago but only to round out my stats which go something like 50 vigor, 60 endurance, 50 mind, 40 strength, 60 dexterity, 9 inteligence, 45-50 faith , 20 arcane
zullie ,
love your content
one of the coolest enemy designs in the entire soulsborne franchise imo. I just love how they look, and their phantasmic movements and combat animations are just so fluid and beautiful
Welcome back Zullie, your vids are getting me excited to pick up elden ring again after beating TOTK
YES
Man, all this girlbossing, gaslighting and gatekeeping has not been good for the Lands Between
Thank you, for your work. It is a pleasure to watch.
Unrelated, I get so happy seeing your videos. Life is much different now and I rarely get to sit back a have fun. I cherish these moments I have when watching your videos, even if it’s for a little while. 😊
p.s. love your videos
Me too
A thing to note is that Iji lays dead with the Black Knife Assassins surrounding him, but the flame on Iji's corpse is that of the God Slaying Blackflame, not the ritual flames of the rune of death that the assassins possess, being red and black in color. I always thought that maybe somebody else was involved in killing Iji and that the Black Knife Assassins were there to protect him. Sure, Alecto was imprisoned in the Moonlight Altar evergaol, but what better place to hide and lay low when you're the most wanted person in The Lands Between?
Happy to see you back!
Zulie, I'm so glad your back. You contribute so much to this community and I thank you for that. 💙
I always assumed that Ranni's two fingers sicced the black knives on her, iji and blaidd. The shadow we fight (blaidd's moveset) has his blade imbued with destined death so those fingers have access to fragments of the rune and I can't think of any other means of how. I think after the night of black knives ranni went 'missing' for a while and the fingers quickly took control of the black knives as they were hounded from leyndell and sent them to search for her. Alecto got close and maybe ranni defeated and imprisoned her rather than someone from leyndell. Maybe that's why there's still a black knife near the elden throne, she was sent to scout for ranni in case she returned (because she has to retuen to the throne, though is summoned by the tarnished in the end) and killed all the finger reading crones. I don't think the black knives are trailing either the tarnished or other shardbearers nor do I believe ranni is tying loose ends killin iji and blaidd.
"I get uhh...Twilight Realm - The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess OST, please"
"Daring today are we?"
You know, I don't even play Souls games, but I LOVE your videos for some reason. I've watched so many. Subscribed.
God its so great to have you back, Zullie. I hope you found some rest during the break. And here's to hoping you find a perfect work/life balance to keep you from burning out anytime soon. 🍻
I thought that Blaidd and Iji were killed by the Black Knives on Ranni's orders, since Blaidd was bound as her shadow by the golden order and Iji as a troll was also bound by the golden order, making both of them turn on her against their will once her plan to overthrow the golden order entirely went into it final phase. There's as many black knives that attack them as there are that you fight, so I figured some of them still work for Ranni and others left after they killed Godwyn, like a schism in their group.
Iji was protected from the Golden Order's control. That's the purpose of his helmet. It's literally a tinfoil hat to protect him from the mind controlling 5G radiation.
Are there even anymore numen left, beyond the mobs after the endings or are they another race like the giants that went extinct or weakened?
You can play as a numen and it gives the description that they are "seldom born, but have long lives". They aren't extinct but few and far between essentially.
player character can choose numen as a race, so yes
Ah, i see. So they are born once a few times randomly without any kind of relation or parents being numen.
As always, immaculate music choice
Just discovered this channel. Fascinating. How I’ve been oblivious to it for so long, I’ll never really know.
I like the theory that the black knives work for the Nox specifically, who live in the Eternal cities. And ranni only worked with them briefly, but ultimately betrayed the Nox and thus set the black knives against her.
It could well have been that the black Knives were intent in fully killing godwyn, both body and soul, but ranni hijacked this process mid way through by slaying her own flesh with the other half of the curse mark. It would explain why Alecto is imprisoned in the moonlight Alter, and why the Black knives have it out for Ranni and her underlings.
I still never understood why the black knife assassins killed iji and blaidd. Her 'tying' lose ends seems dumb when you consider that they also targeted iji, and blaidd was basically 'protecting' ranni from the black knife assassins, not knowing shes not there. Must have been a betrayal on either black knife assassin's or ranni's part, or ranni broke or never fulfilled a promise
@@nezahuatez yeah I'm aware, but I thought him killing the black knives, and you talking to iji, also somehow implied he tried to protect ranni after going mad. Even Iji says "yet in madness, gave himself to her"
glad to see youre back! hope you've been doing good!
Welcome back Zullie, always happy to see your content ❤
I don't want to believe that Ranni orchestrated the attacks on Blaidd & Iji... Not after the way she talks about them to the player. I know her objectives and ending are absurdly vague, but my understanding is that she is trying to remove the Elden Ring from the Lands Between in order to stop the outer gods from fighting over it. And if she truly were so cold and emotionally manipulative as to kill her companions while telling you she loves them, would she really be so invested in a plan that doesn't benefit her directly?
To add to your point, Iji's death is caused by Black Flame so the Assasins may have tried to rescue him and tried to restrain Blaidd.
I've always been struck by the name, "Numen". It's so close to "New Men" that I find it hard to ignore the possibility that the Numen are the first true artificial lifeforms in The Lands Between. The Albinaurics, the Mimic Tears, and even the Claymen all seem like attempts to recreate whatever magic or miracle which first created the Numen.
This seems to explain Marika's crumbling body, and her ability to transform into Radagon. She is literally made out of stone or clay, and can reshape her body as needed. The other Numen may have lost their faces over time, as the Albinaurics slowly lose their legs, or Marika may have taken their faces away from them as some sort of act of punishment, or to prevent any of them from challenging her power.
I'm reminded of the original Golem folk tales, in which the golem is a man made of mud, animated by the holy word "Truth". This version of the Golem is intelligent and self-aware, and curious about its place in the world, but when it becomes too much of a danger to the community, the holy word is smudged to change it to "Death".
Perhaps, as the Albinaurics are attempts to create Numen, the Numen were attempts to create an Empyrean Vessel. Marika was the first to be a true Empyrean and the first to be worthy of the Elden Ring's power, so she created the new "Truth" of the world, while the other Numen were relegated to "Death".
the "Numen" are called 稀人 (pronounced "marebito") in the original Japanese. The kanji literally mean "Rare Person" but it's another way of writing 客 (also pronounced "marebito"), which means "Visitor from afar". There are some connotations where that visitor would be implied to be supernatural, or a divine spirit. Given the fact that the Numen of Elden Ring come from another place to The Land Between, I think the "visitor from afar" is a stronger reading of their name's meaning, with the English localization just making up accidental implications as usual.
I think it was a reference to Numenoreans from Lord of the Rings. Makes a lot of sense given that they were a race of highly adept, noble, and wise men with 300 year lifespans. The stars led them to their home island (Numenor, which was also shaped like a 5-pointed star) after the Valar gods raised the island for them from the depths of the ocean for their service in a war against Morgoth the primordial source of evil.
The etymology for Numen might be from the Lord of the Ring's world with the island of Numenor (and in the menu Numen are called "denizens from another world") which have men that are known to be taller (Marika and the Assasins). For the losing the faces going away, I would disagree since in the game files at least 1.0 the eternal cities building are called "Marika's Ruins" and the Nox are called "Marika"s Descendant. We know that the Assasins are "scions of the Eternal City", this could mean that they are from Leyndell however I'll take it as they are nox and so numen. And the other nox have faces so I think it is more an effect of the armor or event the Rune of Death.
Then follows the question: who made this attempts? Who might be a creator?
Wait a minute, youtube didn't said me that you were come back!
*happy noises*
I hope you feel better, really happy to look new videos by you!
So happy you did a video on the Black Knives. I love their designs and moveset. 100% my favorite enemies in the game. In my first play through I wielded only knives and when I met one for the first time it became my mission to become one. Happy to say I did (armor, knives, talisman, Tiche as my summon, the whole shebang) One day when I have time I'll make a cosplay of them.
Don't forget, Fia has a thong
nice
I don’t know why, but I always got the impression that, outside of their work, the Black Knives would actually be quite nice. I bet they all hang out together and have book clubs on the weekends.
interesting because I guess i always assumed even her advisors thought she was tying up loose ends
"It's a Dancer! A mini Dancer!!"
- my first reaction seeing a Black Knife Assassin xd
Hold me closer tiny dancer
the black knives betrayed her, ranni made it pretty clear that she wouldnt do that to blaidd
I do find it funny that the moment Ranni is away from her conspirators, the black knives conveniently show up to wipe out all those who would know about her. Though; I have my doubts its her who set that up; what with how she gives Iiji and Blaidd a farewell message for us to give them.
Makes me really still think that Marika and Ranni were the ones who conspired to set all this in motion; and Marika was the one who may have left those black knives with their final mission. I feel it fits her far more; at least from the little we've gleamed of her machinations so far.
Considering she helped kill her brother who was kind and forgiving, and she seemed to have plot to kill many others. I wouldn't doubt that she had them both planned on being killed. Ijii even goes to a very open area. I understand his size is huge but he seemed reserved in his fate and even tried to save blaidd by putting him into a goal.
@@HooDooBrown Yeah; knowing that Blaidd was basically always at risk of turning into an enemy, and Iiji was always wearing his mask to avoid being turned against Ranni does make me think her having them killed after she leaves is. . . odd. Like; how would Iiji stop Ranni? Blaidd I can see being a threat, but how do they follow her to the moon? lol
Here's hoping the DLCs shed some more light on what happened back in the day.
@@pockystyx4087 I just hope the dlc answers more questions.
Good to see you posting again Zullie. :)
My favorite boss fight, my favorite armor set, my favorite spirit summon.
I think the black knives are a testament to Ranni’s quest: the ends are good, probably the best for the lands between (especially considering the Japanese text rather than the English localization text), but the means to get there are extremely costly. Perhaps too costly to justify the end.
Hello there
Thank you for coming back Zullie, we missed you
luv u glad you're back!
It's kind of hard to not compare the Black Knives with the Ringwraiths from Lord of the Rings as well, especially given som eof the more obvious parallels to Tolkien's Middle Earth in Elden Ring (probably the biggest one being the "Numen" race, which just screams "Numenor" to me).
It's important to know that Ranni gave to Rykard the Blasphemous Claw in case the plot is discovered and allowing Rykard to fight against Maliketh something that reveals that in the end Rykard Helped with Ranni's plot and also was totally ok with take all the fault himself to the point to even fight against Maliketh wich was feared by all demigods due to the rune of death. A rare piece of Lore that shows that Rykard had a close bond with his sister, the interesting part is Why Rykard should carry all the fault and nobody would suspect of Ranni, maybe because he became the Lord of Blasphemy? or He became the Lord of Blasphemy so everyone would assume he was behind the plot?
She probably gave it to him before he lost himself to the snake
The black knife in the deathtouched catacombs is sitting down injured and starts with reduced health because she's fought and defeated the guardian of the dungeon.
Oh dang, you're back?
Welcome back. I know what I'm watching after work