The Secrets of Mix Bus Compression... Demystified! [SSP039]
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ย. 2019
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In this episode, Justin Colletti reviews some of the most effective approaches in applying bus compression to a mix.
Thanks to Soundtoys, Gear Club and Mixing Breakthroughs for sponsoring this episode.
For more depth on this subject and more, try mixingbreakthroughs.com - เพลง
![Advanced Compression Techniques: Parallel, Sidechain and Serial Compression [SSP038]](/img/n.gif)
I'm a "gory details person" - I love this channel and your level of detail - long or short videos. Thanks for all the great tips!
This channel is a goldmine! So many good and nuanced answers! You really teach so well. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and taking time to make these videos! 🙏🙏🙏🙇♂️❤️
Im still in the middle of this video, but I’ve been experimenting a lot with different techniques on my mix bus recently. I couldn’t thank you enough for this video it’s helped me a lot! These really are some of the best videos on the internet regarding mixing.
Thank you for all of this great information!
I would like to shout out a specific effect which I accidently achieved a few years ago when mixing a vocal, el guitar track for my sisters band.
I wanted to get an oldschool sound early on and limited myself to only 2 compressors for the entire track.
One was on the vocal, a gentle comp and the other was my mixbus comp.
I did my levels and panning and turned on the mixbus comp very early on.
As I was approaching the finished mix I noticed that the mixbus g series comp was doing up to 9db of gain reduction and it was sounding incredibly musical.
The effect which I achieved by accident was the sound of the reverb.
Because I automated my vocal to get compressed by the mixbus comp mainly what happened was that every time the singer is quieter the verb was quieter as well, but every scream slammed into the mixbus comp and the reverb would go up in level and would fill the gaps and give this brilliant sheen behind the vocal and gtr.
In a way i achieved the Bowie gated verb technique with only a mix bus comp and no gating or multi mic scenarios at all.
Great little trick for open but big sounding tracks!
Great tutorial. Love the way you explained it clearly. I really needed to hear this. Now I know what I need. Thanks for the info. 👌
Please do more videos 🙏 I thoroughly enjoyed this video. I am currently trying make this decision. Now I confirmation have a in my understanding on how to get the sound I want.
One of the most underrated podcasts when it comes to audio!
I can't recall how I came by it, I think I might have been going through that stage where you're slapping compressors everywhere trying to figure out what the hell they're doing, but somewhere in there I found mixing into compression elevated my recordings to a new level and I almost always do it now. Thanks for the video :)
Thanks for sharing such amazing good information - I applied many of your tips in my mixing and I get better everyday at it. Thanks so much for giving :-)
More delicious concepts - tasty! Thank you.
Damn, so many great thoughts about mix bus compression, things that I sometimes do instinctively but didn't think about them!
Excellent video - thanks!
Super helpful - thank you for sharing your knowledge!
THANKS FOR ANSWERING THE QUESTION BASED ON MY CONTINUOUS OVERTHINKING
your service is crucial, thank you
Sos un grande Justin!!! Gracias, gracias, gracias 🙌
I used to struggle with this, but MAN is it actually easy. Like: what-have-I-done-in-my-life-I-overcomplicated-this-WAY-too-much-easy. *First step:* Get a good SSL-style compressor. I like the plugin version that's offitialy from SSL because it's uber transparent (it's not modeling something analog, it's just super clean). I got it for 30 bucks when it was on sale. Another option is the Waves one, its super cheap and analog-modeled, also a killer option. *Second step:* Set the ratio 4:1, release the fastest, attack the slowest, and if the compressor has a high pass set it to 90hz. *Now the magic part:* Move the threshold so that you have in the loudest part of your song about 1 DB of gain reduction. The needle also doesn't have to move much at all. the slope of the compressor with the 4:1 is so huge, that even with this tiny amount it will just glue everything together. DON'T DO MORE. You just want the extra little magic that's it. Also no need to »mix into the compressor«. That usually leads to overloading it way too much and getting confused why you push the vocals up and nothing happens. Just slap it on when you bounce or finish the mix. In the end, you can play with the release a bit. if you make that a little slower the compressor will work more rhythmically with the song, and this may or may not work, with the track. I find it´s cool with something folksy jazzy slow-ish. And that's it. You don't want a huge change. You want tiny tiny magic, but it's just this 10% of magic that works every time!
The tip at 11:20 really saved my mix! My kick was was really hitting the compressor and then I turned it down to where the snare and the kick equally moved the compressor 2-3 db. Not exactly using my ear, I admit. But, wow the mixed really sounded evenly compressed after that and very satisfying to the ear. The compressor seamed to sweeten EVERYTHING in the mix.
Great video!
Great video 👌
I saw Winer's book in the thumbnail. That's a good enough reason to sub.
Good video, I agree on all points
Hi. This subject is so much interesting and I am experimenting also with all kinds of bus compression and in general I do not exclude any possibility from my potential arsenal of tools to use. Why should anybody do so. The art is to decide what the project needs or what you like best for a certain situation. I think the worst thing a beginner can do is follow advices and think they are general rules for this and that. They would limit their potential so much. Another not so good thing of those implying videos is that people follow rules without actually listening to the differences all other options bring because they think it has to sound like a certain way, no matter if that's fitting their mix. And again the risk of wasting potential is so big there and I finally think that's one of the reason why music often sounds so generic... People don't experiment any more with audio. They just follow formulars, which is absolute killer of creativity.
Thank you so much for approaching those subjects in an differentiated and open minded way. I do highly appreciate that and as a beginner myself I will stay tuned :)
Cheers, have a great day.
Great insight!
Hi! Your videos are so helpful! Could you offer some quick advice on how you get such a good sound in your voice recording without microphone attachments? Is it the room's acoustic treatment? A software thing? Love your videos and thanks again.
This would have been the perfect topic about which to do a detailed video. This "short format" feels like it's just a teaser for the course. Personally, I think it's essential to mix with a mix buss compressor and bypass it regularly to see if something is best handled on the track (or buss) or by the mix buss compressor. I've also found it really useful for deciding which compressor I want on the mix buss. Many times I've started out with the Fairchild 670, then found it was better to use, say, an elysia alpha or even Pro-C² because I was using a lot of colorful compressors and/or saturation on the individual tracks and it was better to have something cleaner on the mix buss. But then we have the question of the master buss compressor. Better to leave that one alone until you're mastering, IME. I haven't every found a time when it was wise to mix with that on.
2:12 > I still got those 2 Charles Dye Video's; Mix It Like a Record.
He was the first talking about MultiBand Compression :-)
He was always on the ProjectStudioNetwork podcast.
Good-times :-)
lol, and on your table.... BehindTheGlass. Love that book.
Mine is full of notes and marked passages :-)
Big Thanks
I think this is something we should over-think as not to chase our tail yet I think we overthink it to the point of missing the obvious. When you mix w/o the bus compressor on, you are already seeking the tones & quality that it wouldve given you. When you slap it on later, its like overkill.
In other words, Superman doesnt need a Super-Jet to match Batman's Bat-Jet. When you start the mix with it on, it becomes essential to the established balance in the chain order of hardware & plugins youre using on every single bus just about so of course turning it off or using less would be like taking away all of Batman's utilities(because you WANT to rely on it).
He's still Batman but not the Batman he needs to be to face the level of threat & obstacle he commonly faces. So essentially, the mix bus is somewhat of a mandatory crutch if you start a mix with it & more so a potential obstacle if you mix w/o it & want to slap it on at the end & do "this & that" w/o ruining the mix. Neither way is wrong but neither way is equal & thus will not give you the same result when using the same compression settings.
So to solve that, one needs to officially learn the 2 paths & then decide when to use them based on their own personal understanding of what they get out of it. So basically if all within a few hours we start a simple mix with it & do a duplicate mix from scratch but w/o it until the end, we can then get the jist of the 2 sounds once & for all & better pick when to do what w/o chasing our tail.
Sometimes its good to send Aquaman on the sky mission but its almost always good to send him on the water mission...thats the jist of it in a nutshell. Know your bus compression styles & capabilities & youll be more inclined to pick the right one. However, we all know there is no wrong one unless youre chasing your tail & forced to redo something going an alternate route you formerly chose not to take.
-My exhaustive thoughts for both you guys & myself
QuabmasM Nice! A good way of thinking about it. Thanks for sharing your view-and with such a colorful analogy too.
QuabmasM lmaooooo
QuabmasM yeah, I liked your novel too! 👍😂
QuabmasM That is an incredible analogy
I wanna be the Batman who gets Kim Basinger.
Good stuff.
Amen, i was starting a mix about a year ago. After I did my comps and set up groups and busses for all the tracks to get some sort of order, with no plugins on any track or buss. I put my mix buss chain on the mix buss just for the hell of it, and to my ears delight I was 1/2 home just from loading up my mix buss first, Mixing just now became 100% less of a headache.
Very informative video! Thank you very much! I am one of those who likes to mix thru the comp from the beginning. I am torn between getting a heavy coloured Heritage Successor or Wesaudio Dione SSL type comp for mix bus duty. Which one would you suggest? Coloured or cleaner? Thanks!
That is such a matter of taste and preference that it is hard to say. What kind of genres you are working on are important. For heavier, faster rock, and a lot of pop, the SSL style of compressor is often preferred. For bigger, thicker sounds, a Neve-y bus compressor is more often used.
You can make great sounding records with either though, and perhaps there's a way to audition both, or find out what kinds of bus processors your personal favorite mixers are more partial to. One good way to audition different flavors is through good software, even if you go with hardware in the end. But it may be possible to try both for a little while and return one. Talk to your favorite dealer about it.
Hope that helps!
Thank you very much!
In a joking spirit, I would enjoy passing your voice thru Waves MV2...
When we are done with the mix should we keep our mix bus setup on and then go to the mastering or we should bypass it before going to the master, I mean that because of course without the master buss effect our mix will change and we won't get a better result anymore due to the non effect of the master bus
Sabiq BiqSa If you mixed through a bus compressor the whole time, definitely leave it on. At that point it’s part of the sound of your mix.
If you threw on a compressor at the end just for a reference mix for the client, sure leave it off. But if you mixed through it, it’s part of your mix, and things will change if you take it off.
I think people have problems with bus/mix bus compression - or compression because of the lack of intention. Unfortunately, there is no one that talks about this on youtube or anywhere else. For example, there are mixers thar use a compressor on the mix bus from the start of the mix to balance their instruments, because they know if the low end is the only thing hitting the compressor, it means that they have too much low end.
your awesome!
Thanks! Should we slap the mix bus compressor on even before cleaning up or editing track/regions, before even starting to balance or pan?
I recommend putting it on at the beginning of level setting. So maybe you've done a little level setting and then put it on, or put it on do all your level setting into it. You don't necessarily need it on while editing before mixing.
@@SonicScoop Thanks! Would the bus compression affect the tracks' fundamental frequencies and some pre-made widening, even before volume balancing?
I see you got Ethan Winers The Audio Expert.
Is this the same thing as just putting a compressor on your master channel and leaving it on as you mix?
Yes.
Often referred to as “Top Down Mixing”, this method is based on starting your mix from the 2-Bus (“top”) and then working backwards (or “down”), and, doing so from the beginning of your mix session (or very early on in the mixing process, after getting a basic static mix).
The result of this, is that you are able to hear how all of your individual tracks, busses and FX adjustments will respond and sound as you are mixing into that compressor.
This is opposite of the “traditional” method of starting a mix from the bottom up, where you would get a mix at the track and bus level first, and then insert a compressor on the entire mix afterwards...which can work, if you’re using very subtle compression on the master bus, but which can also dramatically alter the sound of your mix if heavier amounts of compression are used.
The result of this, is not just having a mix sound over-compressed, but it can tonally change an entire mix, too.
And, this can also skew the balance of elements in the original mix, by gaining up things that were originally mixed more subtly - like reverb and delay levels, noise, sibilance on vocals, room reflections on acoustic guitar tracks, etc.
I’m not saying that either method is unequivocally good or bad; as with anything in mixing, it’s best to base your decisions within the context and flow of what you’re working on at the time.
😊🙏
what if you mixed an amazing mix and only now you learn about mix compression? should i skip that part or try it.? the mix is perfect.
It's not only about the source material, but also the stylistic interpretation of the result. If you're wanting a 1970's Pink Floyd feel, then heavy compression tactics won't work. But if you're going for In This Moment, you won't be able to compete without getting creative. I've reached the stage where I've realized that the choice is about the artistic choice. That being said - my ears perked up when I heard that Cornish was getting 5-10db of gain reduction via two serial compressors. I have a tendency to restrict bus compression well under that level.
What about that a hi-pass side chain can rotate the phase of a signal and make the signal kick threshold higher then it is in original?
What sifechain can rotate a phase ?
@@natewilliams2426 EQ rotates phase if it is not linear.
I also purchased Charles Dye DVD.
2 ways to use mix.buss-compression.
1. Heavy Pop. Comp.
- Put Fairly early in mix**
>>make decisions THRU that compression.
##AN ABSURB. AMOUNT OF COMPRESSION
A. Either First thing u do, OR. After rough levels.
Styles:
-Serial Comp. -Slow, Lower Ratios.
Fast attack. (More control) Slow Attack. (More Punch)
Ratio
Higher- (put it early in process)
Lower thresh. -(night getaway with later )
**Don’t use too much bottom.end; it’ll affect comp.
-so either sidechain Eq. Or do bass after comp.
Not gasping this one thing. If i gain stage and then put a comp on the master what if i want to add more elements to a track after the comp on the master?
I prefer to mix without it first. I like to have control more on the individual tracks, I control them KNOWING I will put a MB comp on. but when I am ready to add one, I can then try several to find the one I think sounds best. If I mix early with one I am then tied to that style and those setting and I would rather get my individual tracks good ON THEIR OWN FIRST. I don't want a MB comp altering the sounds of my tracks UNTIL I get them in the zone I want them in first. So I don't mix first and act like I won't be using a MB comp later, I mix and leave space and room and yet get my tracks and instruments and busses too in the place I want. I do mix with normal buss comps, guitars, vocals, bass and such. Then when I get all this where I want it, but with space left, I then have not DEPENDED on a Mb comp and that means my mix is open to various different comps and styles, Opto, I have space and room, Varimu, I have space and room, VC same. My mix is more OPEN to possibilities AFTER I have worked with the instruments and busses and now KNOW THE SONG MUCH BETTER and what direction I want the final run to be. In other words, I don't want to be TIED DOWN to a certain compressor or style or settings from the start. I want to get to know the song over the hours of listening and have it in the zone and then I have a much better idea of the possibilities it has which helps me decide what comp I want to do the final push.
That's relatively true, but I only believe in great gospels of all mix-masters-Master-Mixers advices. Hence I bought all your courses. Cheers Justin !
I'll compress sub groups, low end, percussion, pads, lead synths but I always leave the Master clear for the Mastering engineer. That's preferable isnt it?
Keith Forrester What’s preferable is whatever it takes for you to get a great mix. Some engineers prefer mixing through bus compression, some don’t. The only way to find out if it works for you is to try. A few times. If it’s not working for you, you can always take it off and try again. But if you’re getting great results without it, you don’t need to fix what ain’t broken. If you try it and you’re not feeling confident with it, either leave it off or err on the side of less. Hope that helps!
Justin Colletti Cool, I appreciate the reply! I’ll experiment, (with a bit more confidence now). Love the channel, always really informative stuff I can use👍🏼
Charels dye was my instructor at sae miami
So, as far as too much low end hitting the comp, could one just put an EQ in front and roll off some of the lows?
Yes! But then you will have less low end in the mix. That could be good or bad.
Another possibility is to use a sidechain filter on the compressor. Or, a multiband compressor.
But yes, it could just be that your mix has an inappropriate amount of low end. Using frequency analyzers and comparing against references can be helpful if you are on a less than ideal listening setup to evaluate the low lows.
Hope that helps!
- Justin
@@SonicScoop Oh... of course I don't want to cut all that low end from the whole mix, oof! I wasn't thinking straight, thanks for the fast response and great advice!
In that case, sidechain filter FTW! Lots of compressors have them built in these days.
I think of compression as a form of imaging. You're not imparting dynamic control only. You're getting dynamic control in addition to a tonal shift in character. It's an attitude thing. 90's Seatle rock comes to mind. Today, you don't hear music mixed that way. It's all limited. It's a different attitude today then it was then. So, you have to be mindful of what personality(imaging and character) you're invariably going to inject into your mix should you choose to employ mixbus compression. Music at its is best sounds OPEN. That's how you hear music in reality. You're ears are not compressing anything. Compression is a departure from what our ear expects anyway. And if you're going to go that direction, you better have a good reason to do it. Otherwise it doesn't work. Also don't forget there's a limiter at the end. That can do a lot of the heavy lifting for you actually.
Behind the glass ,still a great book .
Indeed!
also should notice the recording quality ur working on, if it is not as good, u might want to clean it up first
If anyone cares what I think (30 Year Veteran), It's going to mastering. Right? So... If I can make it Slightly Fatter and Slightly Wider with Bus Compression... Awesome! If not... I'm gonna' leave it. Loudness is for mastering. Regarding 5db of bus compression: You'd better be extremely experienced with extraordinary monitoring and you'd better have a really good reason to to do that prior to mastering. Thanks for the video!
IVery good video but I think the Higher/Lower Ratio of Compression is really not a Constant at all in their behaviour...as for example some Compressors as the Alan Smart C1 is way more sensitive at 2:1 than at 4:1 and you can get away with 4;1 in this compressor way better putting it at the end...try the 2:1 ratio at the end and is pretty impossible with the C1 .....bottom line, you have to know your compressor as any compressor is a a different beast.
I just don't get it. Why to use mixbus comp early? Then you'll have to check it all the time! Especially when you have fast attack. When your mix gets louder, mixbus comp will react more, of course, and you will always have to check it through your mix process. Mixbus is an intimate thing, really. Leave you mixbus fairly intact for the mastering engineer, unless it is a really essential part of a song vibe. And if you have a perfect mix w/o mixbus comp or it works just a bit - it's even better, right? )
The mix is the mix, however you decide to get there! I use one called the townhouse buss compressor (brainworx) which seems quite transparent. I don't usually switch it off, just make decisions into it.
I dnt like compression so I always put on mix buss n it really works
Bottom line... there are no hard and fast rules for using a mix bus compressor, well except for using a HP filter on it. That is a must, but everything else is just trying out different compressor emulations and settings on your mixes and figure out what is best for the job.
Think of Bruce Swedein…
You shouldn't mix into anything on the master bus unless it's for effect purposes. You need to gain stage and also create groups. On those groups you add some processing. When you are mixing right you will find that the master doesn't go into the red as often. You will be getting the right tone at the right volumes and your master volume display will enable you to double check this. You will not fool your ear with loud volumes and have to push tracks to fight for limited dynamic range. There is much more to engineering a track than you can hear plainly and some of it is counterintuitive. You should have scooped out the problematic elements and the whole thing should seem a bit neutral except for the inbuilt character of the desired tones. If you want loud bass, that doesn't just mean turn up the bass, can mean a lot of different things, the volume of the bass depends on the rest of the mix as well. Another key is calibrating the headphone or monitor levels right for you and the DAW. The DAW wants you to pull down volumes so you need to think about that when you set the level of your phones/speakers. Instead of adding a limiter on the bus you could simply turn up your phones/speakers, then later add whatever limiting and saturation needed to make the mix radio ready. But generally you want the mix to be neutral and let the stereos and playback systems do their job, even when the mix is master hot. It's hard to argue a common sense mastering approach with todays music because the worst music is on the charts right now and people think they need to copy that as a reference. Those tracks aren't always there because of the musicianship, they are there because of payola and will be for 20/30/40 more years. You should leave some overhead, use a gain plug to reduce the master if anything. Then go and apply a final round of sweetening and limiting to push the mix to the desired levels. All the online streaming companies use different LUFS volumes, another reason mixes need to be checked at different levels, they will be reduced down the chain.
I keep hearing Darren from Bewitched 😲
I had no idea Jimmy Fallon knew so much about audio production.
Surprising that you would spend so much time talking about techniques and zero time demonstrating them.
These kind of videos are better in my opinion. They give you ideas. Doesn't matter if you use sound toys or stock plugins. I dont like videos that glorify plugins.
I know you'd like to see your compressor in there, but sometimes these types of videos are needed. He pushes you guys enough, give him a break.
Yup, just kind of an add for his paid material:( Obviously, some good "general" concepts.
All Jibber Jab and no show. Talking about compression is useless without examples
Veer Chasm We’ve got tons of audio and video examples elsewhere on the channel. Just not in the podcast episodes.
Either way, the best and most powerful way to internalize these differences is to take these principles and apply them right away in your own work. That’s where you will really learn to hear these differences for yourself.
Hope that helps!
Pro tip: put a daw screen shot, hand drawn graphic, near naked chick pic, funny animal pic, etc in your video every now and then... you'd most likely have many more subs. I just scrolled thru the entire video and saw nothing but your talking face.... for almost 20 mins.........no thanks
quality over quantity
Should he change his content because you are a lazy fuckhead? Not really. If you want fireworks go watch those retards that fill their videos with sfx and bombard their thumbnails with red circles and giant yellow arrows.