At first, it struck me as odd that a supply ship would be so heavily armed, but it actually makes quite a bit of sense. In the show it’s made clear that the MCRN is much smaller than the UN Navy. For that reason the Martians probably didn’t want to assign warships to escort their supply vessels. Arming their supply ships obviated the need for warship escorts.
Well we do know that they did deploy the Donnager and it’s Morrigan class Patrol Destroyers to protect terraforming supplies from belter pirates during Operation Silent Wall.
Also, the large presence of belter pirates in the outer solar system makes armed transport necessary even in times of peace. These ships are not designed to fight other dedicated warships but should be able to handle most pirates. And if they become part of a larger fleet, their torpedos become a small contribution to the offensive power of any fleet.
Its not unheard of IRL. The Russians made their replenishment ship Berezina armed much like a frigate. Made sense for them since the number of long range warships they had was low. The older Ugra-class sub tenders were also decently armed and additionally operated as squadron flagships sometimes out of remote ports in places like Libya or Syria. I could easily seen the MCRN doing that with a couple of Morrigans centered around a D-Class patrolling the gas giants.
The obvious drawback is that it means that all of your supply ships are as expensive as warships, while also being less efficient as cargo ships because they have much less room and mass for cargo. It seems to me like a military support ship designed to help expand a fleet's operational endurance while also having enough armament to be a serious contributor in any fight, making it an asset rather than a liability.
I love to see as much diversity of ship design in the expanse as possible, it's such a different medium it's really cool to see what they come up with to fill the traditional roles roles. It's center of mass looks a little off to me, I know it's totally doable based on weight distribution but I think I kind of would have preferred one of the other concepts. I'm being rather picky though all in all a pretty cool looking design.
At 0:26 the artwork seems to show 3 drive cones (maybe there's a 4th hidden, but at least 3), but then all the shots of the Barkeith in the ring space show it with 2 drives.
Yes that’s correct. It was a choice between having a really low quality image of the real one, or a slightly altered concept art version. I assume you can see where i’m going with this 😄
Was disappointed that they made the barkeith a supply ship in the TV show, as it was a donnager in the book. But at the same time I'm happy for a new ship design
We need an RTS based on The Expanse lol. Maybe not real time actually. Let's have light delay lol. But realistically, maybe have time condensed like in Empire at war, but with light delay in commands at the strategic level, real time in tactical combat.
While there’s isn’t an official game like that right now, I do suggest you check out games like Starsector and Falling Frontier. They have that expanse feel to them.
@@sigmamale6128 or an expanse ship command simulator, with an interface similar to star citizen (part ship sim, part fps (or squad shooter even)). You would need to repair ship damage and stuff. Didn't the expense start out as an idea for an mmo?
Adding noticeable light delay would likely frustrate players, and transit times are far greater than light delay anyways. Combat would be just letting the AI play against other AI if too far from the commanding players.
The Barkeith was actually represented wrong in the show. In the novels it was supposed to be a Donnager class battleship, that goes missing while transiting the ring to Locania.
@@dark_ops1651 probably because its much harder to make a battleship vanish, since they usualy dont run errands in the belt. Their posting always has purpose, and it always keeps in communication with MCR command, if a supply ship goes off the radar for a while its probably not as much of an issue and nobody would care as much.
Both sides of the issue have merit. However, the book side of the argument of the Barkeith being a Donnager class would push the concept of the mass energy threshold of the ring gates even further since a Donnager Class is significantly more massive, compared to the Barkeith, to proc the Ring Gate Entities attention imo. Even with all the subterfuge, the MCRN rebels had an Admiral in charge that can delay / stall MCRN Fleet Command until they can simply cut ties in the end and be on their way. No one is going to question the Authority of a flag officer as well as dealing with the Intimidating presence of a Donnager Class : D
@@kerviuskuroshiba5120 I think you're on the money, you can look at this one multiple ways. I think they went away from the Barky being a Donny-class massacre machine for one of 2 reasons. One possibility is the sheer attention a Donny-class that gets nom-nommed on by the Goths would generate. It's not just Sauvaterre, we learned early on that a Donny-class has a full crew compliment of almost 2100 people. That's means a LOT of questions being asked by a lot of people when all the crew members drop off the map in Duarteville. Or elsewhere. OR...At this point the sets used in S1/E3&4 are long gone. We've seen what a Donnager looks like inside. This ship looks different, with completely different CIC. What to do? A little retconning solves all. We know (Suspect?) in the books that 3 Donnys total were taken, modified, and ended up as ended up as the 3 powerhouses of the Laconian fleet. Which is fine. The books can and do exist in their own universe. Cheers! 🍺
@@dark_ops1651 Great video and videos. I love military scifi videos. However, I would strongly suggest that having background music is not necessary especially for educational videos with alot of talking. I firmly believe people want to hear you speak, not hear distracting generic background music.
Yea UNN used an unarmed civilian model transport mainly, although when the Leonidas-class was refit some of them had their torpedos and railguns removed to be converted into transports. They still maintained their PDCs for defense. MCRN D-class on the other hand was built from the ground up to be an armed military transport.
Good clip. I was thinking how it is possible that Rouge Martians were able to sell so many ships to Inaros without notice od martian goverment and special services? Ok there was big morale degadation in MCR society but so many ships?
The answer is either "nothing really" or some distinction in terms of guidance systems or the medium they're fired in, which also functionally means "nothing really".
While missiles are more correct name, I think torpedoes are traditionally has more significant history in naval combat, therefore as a marine, torpedo is more familiar name to them.
@@Bizzon666 no, in the battle for the donnager we hear it said that the Amun Ras get to close for torpedos and they switch to missiles. So it stands to reason that torpedos have a more powerfull engine for long range engagements while missiles are slower but seemingly able to hit targets better than are closer to the ship.
@@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547 Man, I never noticed that.. But even in Expanse wiki they say that torpedoes are missiles. I don't think that Donnager switched weapons when Amun-Ras got close, I think that they stopped using all torpedoes/missiles, CQB is generally fought with just rail-guns and PDCs in Expanse.
why wouldn't you want to arm a supply ship to the teeth in this kind of setting? they are already high-value targets to begin with due to the large stocks of supplies they carry. if not well armed they would be constantly under attack be every starving vengeful and desperate belter or dedicated pirates trying to feed and arm themselves and their kin. The huge distances and travel times also mean that if you get attacked any help is likely too far away to get to you in time and it frees up the dedicated warships as well.
Amateurs think about tactics. Professionals think about logistics. Martians think about arming their logistic vessels with enough firepower to rival combat approved warships.
damn!! spoiler alert!! you cannot drop a key information about rings and Marco Inaros on a unrelated video and not giving a spoiler alert.... thumbs down man
I think it would cause much greater shock if Donnager was leading the fleet as Barkeith same as in the books. It would have much greater stakes for both Laconians and Sol. Even for watchers. Donnagers are so cool and yet they got wrecked so many times due to unforeseen circumstances
At first, it struck me as odd that a supply ship would be so heavily armed, but it actually makes quite a bit of sense.
In the show it’s made clear that the MCRN is much smaller than the UN Navy. For that reason the Martians probably didn’t want to assign warships to escort their supply vessels. Arming their supply ships obviated the need for warship escorts.
Well we do know that they did deploy the Donnager and it’s Morrigan class Patrol Destroyers to protect terraforming supplies from belter pirates during Operation Silent Wall.
Also, the large presence of belter pirates in the outer solar system makes armed transport necessary even in times of peace. These ships are not designed to fight other dedicated warships but should be able to handle most pirates.
And if they become part of a larger fleet, their torpedos become a small contribution to the offensive power of any fleet.
Its not unheard of IRL. The Russians made their replenishment ship Berezina armed much like a frigate. Made sense for them since the number of long range warships they had was low. The older Ugra-class sub tenders were also decently armed and additionally operated as squadron flagships sometimes out of remote ports in places like Libya or Syria. I could easily seen the MCRN doing that with a couple of Morrigans centered around a D-Class patrolling the gas giants.
The obvious drawback is that it means that all of your supply ships are as expensive as warships, while also being less efficient as cargo ships because they have much less room and mass for cargo. It seems to me like a military support ship designed to help expand a fleet's operational endurance while also having enough armament to be a serious contributor in any fight, making it an asset rather than a liability.
Finally been looing for a closer look of the Barkeith. Thanks bro! Keep publishing.
I love to see as much diversity of ship design in the expanse as possible, it's such a different medium it's really cool to see what they come up with to fill the traditional roles roles. It's center of mass looks a little off to me, I know it's totally doable based on weight distribution but I think I kind of would have preferred one of the other concepts. I'm being rather picky though all in all a pretty cool looking design.
At 0:26 the artwork seems to show 3 drive cones (maybe there's a 4th hidden, but at least 3), but then all the shots of the Barkeith in the ring space show it with 2 drives.
Yes that’s correct. It was a choice between having a really low quality image of the real one, or a slightly altered concept art version. I assume you can see where i’m going with this 😄
Was disappointed that they made the barkeith a supply ship in the TV show, as it was a donnager in the book. But at the same time I'm happy for a new ship design
We need an RTS based on The Expanse lol. Maybe not real time actually. Let's have light delay lol. But realistically, maybe have time condensed like in Empire at war, but with light delay in commands at the strategic level, real time in tactical combat.
While there’s isn’t an official game like that right now, I do suggest you check out games like Starsector and Falling Frontier. They have that expanse feel to them.
@@dark_ops1651 Thanks, will have to check them out.
Honestly would love a proper expanse rts
@@sigmamale6128 or an expanse ship command simulator, with an interface similar to star citizen (part ship sim, part fps (or squad shooter even)). You would need to repair ship damage and stuff. Didn't the expense start out as an idea for an mmo?
Adding noticeable light delay would likely frustrate players, and transit times are far greater than light delay anyways. Combat would be just letting the AI play against other AI if too far from the commanding players.
Yeah as all the other commentz say, really appreciate ship profiles about some very un talked about yet absolutely awesome ships, please do keep it up
The Barkeith was actually represented wrong in the show. In the novels it was supposed to be a Donnager class battleship, that goes missing while transiting the ring to Locania.
Canonically, it was also a Donnager Class ship in the show. But they later ret-conned it to be a D-Class for some reason 🤷♂️
@@dark_ops1651 probably because its much harder to make a battleship vanish, since they usualy dont run errands in the belt. Their posting always has purpose, and it always keeps in communication with MCR command, if a supply ship goes off the radar for a while its probably not as much of an issue and nobody would care as much.
Both sides of the issue have merit. However, the book side of the argument of the Barkeith being a Donnager class would push the concept of the mass energy threshold of the ring gates even further since a Donnager Class is significantly more massive, compared to the Barkeith, to proc the Ring Gate Entities attention imo. Even with all the subterfuge, the MCRN rebels had an Admiral in charge that can delay / stall MCRN Fleet Command until they can simply cut ties in the end and be on their way. No one is going to question the Authority of a flag officer as well as dealing with the Intimidating presence of a Donnager Class : D
@@kerviuskuroshiba5120 I think you're on the money, you can look at this one multiple ways. I think they went away from the Barky being a Donny-class massacre machine for one of 2 reasons. One possibility is the sheer attention a Donny-class that gets nom-nommed on by the Goths would generate. It's not just Sauvaterre, we learned early on that a Donny-class has a full crew compliment of almost 2100 people. That's means a LOT of questions being asked by a lot of people when all the crew members drop off the map in Duarteville. Or elsewhere.
OR...At this point the sets used in S1/E3&4 are long gone. We've seen what a Donnager looks like inside. This ship looks different, with completely different CIC. What to do? A little retconning solves all.
We know (Suspect?) in the books that 3 Donnys total were taken, modified, and ended up as ended up as the 3 powerhouses of the Laconian fleet. Which is fine. The books can and do exist in their own universe.
Cheers! 🍺
Keep up the good work! Great content 👍
Thanks man. Comments like these really inspire me to continue making videos 😁
Barkeith certainly did get broken down
Man you really woke up and chose violence 💀
@@dark_ops1651 Great video and videos. I love military scifi videos. However, I would strongly suggest that having background music is not necessary especially for educational videos with alot of talking. I firmly believe people want to hear you speak, not hear distracting generic background music.
Awesome vid man! Very in-depth and interesting, good entrance for me at least to MCRN :D
Keep up the great work, seriously a good video.
Yes yes yes expanse content!
Love the content !
Hello Hello Tran Tran
Trust the Martians to make their supply ship more heavily armed that anything that the UNN flies except for their capital ships.
The MCRN only has one rule, everyone fights! No one quits!
Yea UNN used an unarmed civilian model transport mainly, although when the Leonidas-class was refit some of them had their torpedos and railguns removed to be converted into transports. They still maintained their PDCs for defense. MCRN D-class on the other hand was built from the ground up to be an armed military transport.
@@crunchynutter8241 Roughnecks strategy, as I'd like to call it
P. S. Rico's Roughnecks, sorry
@@darkleome5409 HooRah!
Says the guy who has zero idea about non-capital UNN warships, as they never never shown in detail in the show.
I just discovered your channel! Are you planning to do a breakdown of the Tynan as well? That was my favorite ship.
Yesssirrr. I plan on making a group video that has the Tynan, Dewalt, and Mowteng. 👍
@@dark_ops1651 would love that!
*Laugh in The Ring Eater Entity*
personally i think that's the fate of everything that leaves the rungs space without using the rings .
Fantastic content!
Amateurs think about Strategy and Tactics Professionals think about Logistics.
God dammit the d class escaped the foundation and are in space now
Good clip. I was thinking how it is possible that Rouge Martians were able to sell so many ships to Inaros without notice od martian goverment and special services? Ok there was big morale degadation in MCR society but so many ships?
Are you planning to do the Pella
Definitely gonna happen in the future 😉
More expanse videos please
question: what is the diffrence between torpedos and missles in space fantasy?
The answer is either "nothing really" or some distinction in terms of guidance systems or the medium they're fired in, which also functionally means "nothing really".
While missiles are more correct name, I think torpedoes are traditionally has more significant history in naval combat, therefore as a marine, torpedo is more familiar name to them.
@@TheRIZKYRAMA Exactly, they're the same in Expanse, it's just a naming tradition.
@@Bizzon666 no, in the battle for the donnager we hear it said that the Amun Ras get to close for torpedos and they switch to missiles. So it stands to reason that torpedos have a more powerfull engine for long range engagements while missiles are slower but seemingly able to hit targets better than are closer to the ship.
@@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547 Man, I never noticed that.. But even in Expanse wiki they say that torpedoes are missiles. I don't think that Donnager switched weapons when Amun-Ras got close, I think that they stopped using all torpedoes/missiles, CQB is generally fought with just rail-guns and PDCs in Expanse.
Can you do the Razorback/Screaming Firehawk ?
why wouldn't you want to arm a supply ship to the teeth in this kind of setting? they are already high-value targets to begin with due to the large stocks of supplies they carry.
if not well armed they would be constantly under attack be every starving vengeful and desperate belter or dedicated pirates trying to feed and arm themselves and their kin.
The huge distances and travel times also mean that if you get attacked any help is likely too far away to get to you in time and it frees up the dedicated warships as well.
THATS MY BABY 🥺
CUTIE 🥺
where does he get this information from, is there a technical manual or something?
In the concept art of the ship used, it has three drive cones, which looks better in my opinion. Always thought the two looked a little unbalanced
NICE!
Amateurs think about tactics.
Professionals think about logistics.
Martians think about arming their logistic vessels with enough firepower to rival combat approved warships.
damn!! spoiler alert!! you cannot drop a key information about rings and Marco Inaros on a unrelated video and not giving a spoiler alert.... thumbs down man
this is a joke right
I think it would cause much greater shock if Donnager was leading the fleet as Barkeith same as in the books. It would have much greater stakes for both Laconians and Sol. Even for watchers. Donnagers are so cool and yet they got wrecked so many times due to unforeseen circumstances