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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ก.พ. 2024
- I'm still experimenting, but I believe that this is going to be the only way to get value over the long term, at least until changes are made. The logic is simple...
If you permanently put out huge amounts of reliable damage on the enemy team, the enemy supports will be forced to inefficiently heal instead of dealing damage themselves. This actually INCREASES your team's chances of survival and puts overwhelming pressure on the enemy team.
It's actually very difficult to basically ignore low health targets in front of me in favour of dealing damage to the enemy players, but to heal low health players who you're not going to be able to keep alive anyway is largely pointless and buys time for the enemy supports to heal up their players, or just put out even more damage onto your team.
Blizzard really need to make some changes quickly... I like the general direction they've taken, but the implementation is pretty bad. But that's expected with a patch with so many variables being changes. What matters is how quickly they make adjustments to it.
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We are now officially DPS that can kinda help allies recover sooner now.
Bro legit though. I've been trying to figure out what I even am as a support player lol. It feels like nothing makes sense to do anymore on support.
@@timmymcgypsy6234 literally I've been struggling today
Legit, lol. With the mass amount of damage coming in, idiots that hop in with no plan are better off letting die than peeling for and just keep dpsing. It feels weird honestly we became the thing people hate about moira cause of this patch
They hated "DPS" Moira before.. we'll show them what an actual DPS Moira is.
Not by choice, out of necessity.
I want Moira to be a dps 😭 i hate that shes suport
I couldn't agree more with your video description! I've seen so many of my teammates die in front of my face while I'm pumping left click + heal orb into them (could save them before S9). Damage + pressure is the only way to play Moira. I personally like to dive the enemy supports since they can't apply a DPS passive to me while I can still kill 1 or 2 with good CD and cover management. If I don't get any picks, at least the enemy team will be forced to peel or my own team can get a pick. Isolating targets as a team is the Meta Comp rn whether that be Dive or Rush
Idk poke is really strong too though
To me Moira is dive and poke combined it’s a bad season imo but for moiras it’s good I was playing sombra season 8 and was having fun now I feel useless and I’m tired of bastion Moira sigma Zara gameplay muse
@@Mbabbb399it’s a bad season period man
@@DonAkumaafor real
And they always complain that you didn’t heal, or wine that your heal stats are low but that’s cause they just die and there’s nothing to heal 😂
playing moira (supports overall) feels so odd this season istg
most metal ranks depend and function on heals, so now that heals are practically useless, many ranks are being thrown under the bus
@@jvlink2956 fr, I noticed most dive comps are stomping on defensive ones now, creepy O_O
Support has never felt more impactful. If you play it right
@@brunoandrea4846 I think there's an issue when "impactful" means having half your kit impacted by a single passive, especially when it comes from a support. Indeed, it's impactful to be the team's third DPS, but the essence of support has been pretty much twisted this season.
Supports just feel so fuckin awful to play
Well at least a Moira can still DPS, Mercy can only right click and ONLY right click, the DPS passive has made her HPS go down to a torb turret, cant outheal it. Rez and GA are completely useless with the hitbox changes, now I see the other supports are basically just as bad.
When playing moira, i always fall into the role of being a dps healer anyways. I just love seeing my enemies die in front of me i guess. It gets annoying tho when people expect a bunch of healing from a sadist like myself 🤣
It's not a bad thing! The problem is before if I was fighting and a teammate was taking damage or is low health, I'd stop damaging to heal them up and then continue.
The problem is now, it's better to just damage the enemies instead of healing the low health player because team health only goes down... it's just which team's health goes down the fastest that wins. At most, I'll apply the 2 second heal over time effect on them because that takes a fraction of a second to action before I can return to damaging enemies.
I hate this style of play, it seems the character has been dumbed down, but right now (and it could change rapidly), this is how I see Moira's maximum efficiency.
In the one Comp match I played today, and won, I had 8,912 damage and 9,985 healing with 6 players saved and 2,173 orb healing. The Zen damage thing does make things difficult with the dps passive. In a quick play right after the comp match I switched to Zen halfway through because the other team had one. Had to fight fire with fire. Won that one too.
Hey arx, I’ve been watching you for a while now and wanna say I’m grateful for the videos you’ve made. Very informative and enjoyable to watch, you’ve made my Moira experience much more fun.
Appreciate ya posting these to TH-cam, thanks mate
This is a really helpful video man thank you ❤ as a Moira main 💙
spot on, healing is pointless. The game is now a DPS race - period. its less fun, but if you want to win, this is how you do it until the devs make healing effective again.
Hanzo players are also having an existential crisis right now
W
Since i play mercy from your pov would it be more beneficial to just damage boost all the way because we don't heal much regardless
What we need is an indicator if healing is reduced, something like with the Ana nade.
I guess we have to wait a while until Blizzard has enough data to change the numbers on the DPS passive.
I also think Moira plays a lot differently in lower ranks (I'm in Silver/Gold) and sometimes that healing orb helps me finish a fight. Less skilled players, fewer shots landing, not optimal ability use, etc. though.
Idk, I've actually found myself having to healbot (boring) and finding success with it. I still haven't finished my placements, but I mainly play mercy so... I don't even have to remember my predicted rank to tell you it's not pretty. But yeah, Moira is my go to if I'm getting dove on Bap and then flamed for not healing, or Baps healing isn't enough. Bap is my go to when I can't force mercy or lifeweaver to work. Sometimes I just insta switch to Moira bc she's ol reliable and was my main before I became a mercy main.
Just did 5 of my placement matches playing as Moira and it’s never felt like such a fight for my life in the matches. 20% heal debuff doesn’t sound like much but I have expend so much more healing juice just for my teammates to be burst down in front of me anyway. Like thanks for the health buff but it means nothing when projectiles are so large now.
It's not just the DPS passive, it's also the bullets being 'thicker' on a large number of heroes.
Everytime I play mercy I just end up going battle mercy now 😂😂😂
sigh... last season I felt railroaded into playing more kiri and ana to keep the tank (mostly mauga) up... this season I find myself playing zenyatta... which I don't hate, exactly, but it's not my favourite hero to play as I miss having more movement
Love watching a DPS Moira. Still lots of skill involved, just a different type of play.
Moira is so difficult to play in metal ranks solo
I always have 12k dmg and 8k heals avg. 10 minutes and I just straight up getting reported and flamed by toxic Chinese players
Edit: I haven’t tried open queue but i don’t think open queue will be better, I will reply on this message when I tried open queue
Good stuff man, appreciate the tips for the new season! One question though. It seems that your ethos this season is damage trumps healing for efficiency reasons; that if you spam damage you can overwhelm the enemy backline, so it is not ever worth throwing healing orbs. The two possible exceptions seem to be when you use healing orbs to sustain yourself in a 1v1 or when playing as an off-tank. You say that a healing orb isn't worth it and that it's better to just throw the damage orb in these situations. However, while watching you, it seems that when you throw the damage orb and try to kill them first, you die relatively quickly unless you're in a 1v1 with a squishy or if you have fade available. When you bounce a healing orb, you tended outlast the enemy or help yourself out of a sticky situation. Healing orbs definitely seem less useful than previous seasons (particularly as a backline healer), but I'm curious if it is still better to throw a healing orb to at least prolong the aforementioned engagements until fade comes back? I feel like that opens up opportunities to create value with a varied play style that isn't just the RMB-bot. Thoughts?
So a lot of the time heal orbs just don't give enough sustain to survive anyway unlike before. So if the damage threat is really low then sure, heal orbs still have a place, but I found over a number of games that the heal orb didn't make a difference and we would win more teamfights if I just went max damage to keep their health lower, because their healers still had to try to heal that up.
But their healers are always too busy as there's just too much damage, so even if they heal the player I was attacking, it just meant someone else on their team was left on low health and either they got killed, or they had to wait and hide (dealing less damage to our team and therefore healing by proxy).
I'm still experimenting but I do think that overwhelming damage output just wins more often even if you get killed in the process.
@@ArxUK appreciate you dawg. This season’s definitely gonna be a learning experience for me lol. I’ll keep experimenting with the higher pressure play style. Best of luck 💅
Hmm so I’m no pro, but I found on certain maps I can bounce a healing orb off a wall in front of me. It will allow me to do as much damage as I want, and add healing here and there when necessary on top of the orb healing. Obviously damage is crucial right now for moira, but in certain situations I can get a lot of use of her healing orbs (:
Turned a nearly hopeless fight by creating a “healing space”. You’re the best Arx. The play style is switching up, I’m excited to see how you find ways to adapt and excel. Thank you :-)
Has anyone else gotten the bug where your orbs just completely disappear through walls right after you send them?
Arx, i watched Kyo’s game yesterday and i found his moira healing is still around double as his damage (numbani 13k heals 7k damage)
I wonder if being healbot is still okay or I shall go for more damage
Thanks 🙏
Just try what works for you, most of the time it should depend on what comp you have and a little bit on what comp the enemy has. Sometimes the enemy team can't punish you and you are free to create loads of space- that's when you DPS. Sometimes you have a zen or Lucio and you need to heal more or your team falls apart.
I admit supports needed a change but they went from dominating to nearly useless if you focus on healing...sledgehammer to a scalpel
The instant 20% on the dps passive is too much especially since a stray reaper pellet triggers it.
Maybe if they change it to a build up effect so a tracer cant just spray a hallway amd debuff everyone.
The tank passive can also cause build up to be slower so the dps passive needs to be intentionally applied while making healing a bit more viable.
They need to do something since hitboxes seem to be staying for the forseeable future.
Can you bring us some tips for Moira in this season?
Damage damage damage
Play dps
Play zen or bap
I went from diamond to gold in a 15 hour single sitting (yes i have issues). No, I did not play zen or moira because I'm not playing dps, I play heal. I can't win a single game this season.
We’re essentially just playing like Winston
the sup now is become a dps with abilities can heal orther player
Honestly just play zen then if this is now the play style more damage without the orb and definitely more with it and your passively healing the team wether itll help or not otherwise i think imma stick with lifeweaver or moira and stay at the half n half where it has been working for me
Zen is busted. If it's a hero you do play, then yes, play him.
I keep thinking “hey I should deal some damage so I can heal my teammates” but I feel like this season should be “hey I should heal my teammates so I can do some damage” new supports are so weird
Agreed because of this climbing with zen has been great and down right oppressive in some games.
Same principle, better execution as he not only deals constant damage, but also amplifies the team's damage. Zen is broken.
Is it a good idea to play like this in plat? People LOVE to complain about not getting heals but it seems to work alright..
I think you get more flexibility the lower rank you go with how you can play Moira. You probably can play the way I'd usually play in Plat and it might be a good balance, but as you get higher I'm starting to beleive this is the most efficient way to play... sadly.
for me if the other support plays ana or kiri and they pocket tank then i play and annoy the enemy backline and now theyre forced to look at me and they might even pump out cooldowns. always works for me in lower ranks.
The problem with most people when youre healing them is they are allergic to losing l.o.s of the enemy . So instead choose to stand in the area the enemy has chosen to make the heart of a brief new star
Moira has always been a third DPS, this shouldn't be surprising to anyone. I believe her kit is functioning precisely as intended. Moira's playstyle has always been varying degrees of "hear their screams, drink their blood" lol
What is the point of having multiple accounts?
Co feels super slugish anytime a dps shoots you cause co is half of self sustain once u pop it
I like how her heals looks like fire with this skin
When i play moira i only heal with ult , and go dps mode when i dont have it and still have more heals and damage of all XD
I don't know, it feels a bit unfair on the team to essentially be down a support and I'm saying this as a fellow Moira main. It would feel a bit frustrating for me just never heal and cutting off half of the kit.
I think you're taking the title too literally because he's healing. I'm sure success can be found in a healing based play style but so far I also find focusing more on damage to be the easier (and more fun) way to win.
As he said, healing is inefficient and therefore never preferred. Still plenty of opportunities to do it tho!
I would love to heal more, but I also want to win games. I've spent years refining a hybrid heal / pressure Moira style and I'm having to unlearn everything I know this season. It's still early into the season / patch so I may end up playing differently later on, but for now this seems to be the optimal way to play in general. We will have to see how the meta shapes up.
I think they need to at least partially revert the projectile size increases because its making most of the heroes more boring to play, moira included with how its making her playstyle so restricted. Movement used to be such a big part of skill expression and now its almost worthless
They should just give moria lifestea l then and dot on her damage orb XD
She does have life steal
Bubble?
Swear I have been conditioned to despise tracer’s “enemy over here!” 💀
To me, it’s therapeutic to heal and save allies. Doing damage is fun ofc, but you shouldn’t have to DPS the whole time to get value. Hoping they nerf the DPS passive next season.
After u traded with tracer u said "that's why you don't use heal orb guys" then u killed widow immediately after. Then right after that u used a heal orb so perfectly to push towards cart. Even teleported to it because it was getting away. I'm not tryna say u contradicted yourself (even tho you did) I'm more so pointing out how amazing that play was when u trailed your own heal orb. Amazing stuff.
how to get that Moira skin ?
It's a mythic skin for moira in this battle pass. Level 85 and you'll unlock the skin (1000 coins to unlock it) or u can just be a dumbo and waste 100 $ on this battle pass and buy everything in it
I'm sad I can't play duelest moira on a season with her mythic 😭
Buffed orisa in time for her mythic but not moira?? Womp womp :(
😢
nice
Been a supp main since the first day OW1 came out. This season has made me seriously consider just quitting. It's just so UNFUN now as supp. You can't keep anyone alive any more. Your hitbox is massive now thanks to the bullet size increase so you take more dmg now, which when you're the main focus of enemy dps just sucks. And you get flamed for people dying. The "I need healing" spam has never been worse too, even when you're funnelling every heal into them. I hate it. Thanks blizzard.
i feel like they need to revisit moira and give her some kind of utility or buffs. she just feels weird to play rn and i agree, playing her as dps feels more impactful overall
It's so hilarious because this is what DPS mains asked for. Less healing and greater opportunities to kill. There's no greater time to use more damage on Moira, Kiriko, and Zen than now.
ig another benefit of the consistent damage is that you buy space for your teammates to proc their self healing and you deny the enemy team their self healing passives
Coming from a moira main
I get it like once every 50ish orbs and only in very specific spots
I dont like that moira is suport , never like it when all a suport can do fore a team is heal , i want my moira to be a full dps or give her real suport abilitys
Even that Ult self heal isnt doing anything, huh?
How do you deal with people blaming you for not healing and being classic Overwatch toxic?
Chat muted. Voice muted.
As much as I like communication in games, people do not use it correctly 90% of the time in Overwtch, and I don't game to listen to some kid whine or flame every match.
It's simply not worth the benefit to have communication with people in this game when 10% of the games have beneficial communication, and 90% of the games are people complaining about something or trying desperately to be funny when they have the comedic talent of a shoe.
If you for some reason feel the need to actually let people communicate with you in this game, then just remember:
"A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of sheep".
Yellow orb is not allowed in season 9 only if needed to stay alive
I think it still takes skill my Moria be brain dead
Yeah tbh i noticed this on my first few placements. The only time i heal my teammates is if i know for sure they will survive with my heals. If they are not then i dont bother. When there is a fight if someone is getting jumped depending on how much damage they’re recieving and if the dps is damaging them determines if i heal them or not. Otherwise i go full dps. Heals now at least for me is situational
I will laugh when dps queues go back up to 15min on average because no one wants to play tank or support anymore
So in this season we are becoming fully dps Moira 😙 they will always hate Moira forever lol
Its such a shame how theyve made these heroes 1 dimensional :( sad for competitive players, but ig maybe it'll be worth it for the game overall if casuals play more and buy more skins
Literally, I just see more and more problems getting into the game 😐
U know when u put ur healing orb and keep tanking for a bit ? u cant do none of that anymore vs dps character, u just cant heal 😂 thats broken
So healing is 20% worse on targets that need 25% more.... Blizzard doing Blizzard things as usual
I keep telling people that the overall nerf to healing is an overall nerf to everyone - especially tanks. And like you, i also concluded that it is no longer worth trying to keep someone alive. what this means is that supports like mercy and lifeweaver brings little value to the team now since they are generally the stronger healers in the old patches. For example, as mercy, I can be heal botting an orisa but she'll still be shredded within seconds. at that point, it begs the question: why even heal orisa? And as a mercy, if i can t keep her alive, then what value as a mercy player can i bring to the team?
I think a lot of supports are feeling the exact same way, hence some has moved to bap, kiriko, and zen for more dps and less overall healing. So at this point, it seems like blizzard wants to turn everyone into a dps heroes, and less of a class-base heroes. this patch really screwed over support.
You can amp and res with Mercy which are both very powerful tools, res especially. You can also survive reasonably well, but yeah you might as well amp a player until they die, then res them rather than stopping to heal them when they get shot. Only heal them if they aren't shooting a target.
Lifeweaver is garbage this season lmfao
Ok so you pump 6-7 k damage. Most trash damage because they just heal it. But your team pays for it and in turn do less damage because they are dead. How is that an equal trade or more valuable than healing and damage. The way you are supposed to do it is heal first then look for damage
Are you higher rank than me?
Heal first then damage...
For that to happen, you have to take damage first.
This season, when you start taking damage, you don't stop. The global health pool goes only downwards, all you are doing is slowing its rate with healing.
Since healing is inefficient, it's a better strategy to make the enemy's health pool go down faster than to make yours goes down slower. Why? Because their supports then have to focus even more on healing, which as mentioned, is inefficient compared to damage.
So what can't supports do while they are focussed on healing?
Damage.
So your team takes less damage, when you are putting out damage.... which is kind of like healing...
You want to make their supports heal as much as possible, because it removes their damage.
The exception is Zen, who is beyond broken this season, as Zen can not only heal and damage at the same time, but also amplifies damage for his team. Combine this with his primary hitbox being changed, and having 275 health and an increased kick damage (more so when the target is discorded), he's just busted.
But for Moira, I believe the optimal strategy right now is to apply heal-over-time effects to your team, because this can take effect for 2 seconds while you're dealing damage... and then just max out your damage for the reasons said above.
Maybe in your low ranks you can play a more regular Moira style, because the players can't aim even with the hitbox changes, so you can keep up with the heals, but these games are in the top 1% MMR. Please don't try to correct me unless you're qualified to do so.
Me with 10k damage and 25k heals each match and 40 elims: wtf u guys are talking about?
😂😂
“Healing orbs are inefficient”. I watched three times a fight was lost or you died do to you trying to damaging and not doing any heals. Wrong decision making entirely trying to prove a wrong point.
You keep healing, I'll keep doing what I do. Let's see who ranks higher.
@@ArxUK brain dead. Why you play Moira.
lol this Moira gameplay ain’t it, you not even healing yourself 😂
You spent 90% of the time spamming dmg orbs and "healing" with the spray, which really doesn't heal anyone considerably and you still complain that Moira doesn't heal? That's not very fair of you.
lol sif you healed as moira anyway
I did... a lot actually.
worst moira I've ever seen lmao