I haven't tried to write anything in whole-tone since first or second year at university. It certainly provides some interesting limitations (definitely worth exploring again). Great video. Thanks!
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Once again, brilliantly explained. I wrote many pieces when I was young that imitated Debussy, never knowing about the whole tone scale. I'm now working on a larger piece where I want to incorporate the whole tone scale. And thanks to you, I have a clearer picture of where I'm going with it.
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A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme. If you value this channel and would like to help us continue to share and develop the content please consider supporting us as a level 1 Maestro by clicking here th-cam.com/channels/8yI8P7Zi3yYTsypera-IQg.htmljoin Alternatively you can express your support for the channel by clicking on the Super Thanks button beneath any of our videos. Thank you.
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Hi, I am facinated by through composed music, rhapsodies, any way you could do a topic about it, and some of its more famous examples :-) and maybe how to write one (Iv heard its importent to have a very good melody, one after the other if your writing rhapsodies:)
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Gareth it is always nice to see new installments of your instructions. would you consider teaching how to write for piano .. one thing that baffled me during my few years of music study in college was .. the theory classes always dealt with Bach chorales and writing for voices and since I was an instrumentalist I wanted to know how to write for instruments guitar/piano but it was very difficult because no light was shed on the subject. So since your instrument is piano maybe you could share what you know about writing for it, for example a short compositions of 18 bars for classical piano student that may be useful for them and for us as composers.
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Best music channel on TH-cam! Gareth, is there any “harmonic thinking” that goes into composing like this, or is it just “try 3rds and 6ths” and see what sounds good? Are there any counterpoint principles with whole tone?
That’s most kind. The usual harmonic conventions don’t apply and one is not limited to 3rds and 6ths. You can write counterpoint or write homophonically as you wish. Use your ear to create your desired balance of consonance and dissonance.
A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme. If you value this channel and would like to help us continue to share and develop the content please consider supporting us as a level 1 Maestro by clicking here th-cam.com/channels/8yI8P7Zi3yYTsypera-IQg.htmljoin Alternatively you can express your support for the channel by clicking on the Super Thanks button beneath any of our videos. Thank you.
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Great lesson; I’d been racking my brain, on variations of Claire DeLune on Guitar. I ran into a wall when trying to improvise a solo for it. I’m sure this will help me brainstorm some useful ideas.
When it comes to musical topics, this channel is hitting the right notes. The whole tone scale sounds like day dreaming for some reason. I have a question that you might find interesting,Gareth. How do people with large fingers play chords without getting them stuck in between black keys?
Do you know of any whole tone based compositions that have used a classical sonata structure? Theme A on one whole tone scale, then theme B (a fifth higher?) on the other whole tone scale, development followed by recapitulation that sticks to one whole tone scale. Surely someone must have thought of doing something like that. An advantage of whole tone is not having to look out for parallel fifths, however without fifths or semitones, I think it is harder to find a sense of resolution in an ending. Although I guess in principle whole tone music is atonal, it is likely to sound as though it contains a lot of minor sevenths looking for a tonic.
@@MusicMattersGB Yes and I am unsure of how much there is a sense of an alternative whole note scale. Transferring from one to the other could easily feel like a resolution (from a 7th for example), but would continuing in the alternative whole note scale feel different? - I am not so sure for the listener, though a performer would be more aware.
One could write a second theme that is distinctively different in character while remaining in the same transposition of the whole tone scale eg different melodic/ rhythmic character, different tempo/ dynamic/ articulation/ texture.
@@MusicMattersGB Indeed. I wrote a short solo violin piece for my daughter that used the whole tone scale, but alternated it with a 9 note scale based on minor thirds to get a more distinctive contrast. It also allows the music to be simultaneously melodic and atonal. Every so often I think about revising it.
You can but taken the number of accidentals you need for both transpositions of the whole tone scale I usually find it easier to write without a key signature.
Very interesting sounds. Just found out whole tone supports dom7 (no 5th) chords. So..... we should be able to compose using 12-bar as a basis. Although IV7 and V7 are not in the same transposition as I7.
Gareth another fantastic lesson thank you. Listening to the course options you have. I’m just trying to compose little silly funk jazz rock type instrumental tunes on my DAW, would you have a course that could help with that?
We haven’t got anything that specifically relates to DAW but our theory courses and composition course will give you loads of resources for composition.
@@MusicMattersGB Hi Mr Green I just had a look on the website and I do fall into the category of having plenty of ideas but can never seem to bring it all together. I have a good grasp on theory but will admit I need help with developing a method of working through to the end. One other thing I only have two hours in the evenings. Would you recommend the composition course? Would this work within the time constraints? Sorry for being a pain!
Could one not simply use a whole-tone "key signature," such as indicating B, A, and G are flatted, so that sharps and flats do not have to be used throughout the score?
Hi Gareth, thanks for your really great video on the topic of writing with the Whole Tone Scale. I noticed that you didn't mention the preparation and resolution of dissonance and neither did you talk about any potential cadential structures. Could this be because the Whole Tone Scale offers a strange kind of timelessness to the listener, and creates not so much a developing progression, as with conventional harmonic language, but more an unfoldment of a single moment?
That’s kind. Because we’re not working in a conventional major/ minor environment there are no real cadential structures and consonance/ dissonance functions in a freer way. Much will be non functional so there is no real need to think of the preparation and resolution of dissonance.
Cheers Gareth, very interesting and useful as always. I mainly think of whole-tone scales as a melodic option for dominant chords. Basically lydian +5, usually sounds ... not wrong on b13 dominants.
Except C Lydian #5 would have a major 7 and a 13, neither is in the whole tone scale. There is some similarity so you could borrow chords from one into the other.
@@russelldougherty3054 hey Russell. I'm referring to dominant chords. Whole tone scale yields +4 and +5 (enharmonically = b13)... And the sixth whole tone = b7. To be sure, it's entirely possible that I'm fooling myself when I think it sounds ok 😉
Hey thelonious1234, just because they aren't the same doesn't mean you can't get some good sounds. They do share the root, 2nd, 3rd, #4 and #5. I could also see modulating from the whole tone to the Lydian #5 and back for some harmonic motion. There is a Lydian Dominant Augmented scale (R, 2, 3 #4, #5, 6, b7) which is the 3rd mode of Neopolitan Major. It's also the wholetone with an added 6. I've never used it but might work for you.
I find it hard to write a cohesive song using whole tone scale. I'm not a classical musician, more of a pop/rock guy. I've written a few good " riffs", but I haven't been able to write a whole piece that I'm satisfied with.
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I haven't tried to write anything in whole-tone since first or second year at university. It certainly provides some interesting limitations (definitely worth exploring again). Great video. Thanks!
I love writing using the whole tone scale and resulting harmony is always colourful.
These Isolated lessons are a god send for musos 👌
That’s most kind
Man. This is some truly great stuff. Hard to come by impressionism representation like this!
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Once again, brilliantly explained. I wrote many pieces when I was young that imitated Debussy, never knowing about the whole tone scale. I'm now working on a larger piece where I want to incorporate the whole tone scale. And thanks to you, I have a clearer picture of where I'm going with it.
That’s great
It works nicely for improvising outside the box
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This is sooo awesome, I had tried writing in the whole tone scale without mayor results, but this gave me many ideas. Congrats
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Very nice!
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very useful as always! thank you, Gareth
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Usefull and inspiring, thank you!
That’s good to hear. Enjoy!
i love this videos
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Thank you very much for this video information. Very clear and understandable!
Glad it’s helpful. The rest of the course is at www.mmcourses.co.uk
Thank you so much Amazing more videos like this amazing one
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Oo. Going to try that. Thanks Gareth 👍
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@@MusicMattersGB I have bought a few of your courses and they’re so helpful and well made. Thanks!
That’s most kind. Glad you’re finding them useful.
Really like this one. Definitely worth trying.
Definitely
Love this! Using whole tone scales was a challenge for me. But your video help clarify a bit more. Thanks Gareth!
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Thanks for another great video ! I'm totally sold on the whole tone scale now :)
It’s a great sound world
Hi, I am facinated by through composed music, rhapsodies, any way you could do a topic about it, and some of its more famous examples :-) and maybe how to write one (Iv heard its importent to have a very good melody, one after the other if your writing rhapsodies:)
😀
This is motivating. Thanks!
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If you are reading this, smile. I wish you a happy life! 💖🙏
😀
Excellently shown! Even a layman, like I am, will be able to understand how it works. Thank you!
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Great lecture. Awesome channel. Wonderful person ❤
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Gareth it is always nice to see new installments of your instructions. would you consider teaching how to write for piano .. one thing that baffled me during my few years of music study in college was .. the theory classes always dealt with Bach chorales and writing for voices and since I was an instrumentalist I wanted to know how to write for instruments guitar/piano but it was very difficult because no light was shed on the subject. So since your instrument is piano maybe you could share what you know about writing for it, for example a short compositions of 18 bars for classical piano student that may be useful for them and for us as composers.
Okay
You’re a real treasure, so entertaining and on point!
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Cool ... useful: always !
Glad it’s helpful.
great example, 09:15
😀
Best music channel on TH-cam! Gareth, is there any “harmonic thinking” that goes into composing like this, or is it just “try 3rds and 6ths” and see what sounds good? Are there any counterpoint principles with whole tone?
That’s most kind. The usual harmonic conventions don’t apply and one is not limited to 3rds and 6ths. You can write counterpoint or write homophonically as you wish. Use your ear to create your desired balance of consonance and dissonance.
an example of switching between the two whole tone scales is from the guitar melody in the middle of paranoid android by radiohead.
😀
👏 👏 👏 very cool.
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Thanks!
Thanks for your support
Glad to see a follow up on the excellent Debussy video!
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Thank you
A pleasure. See www.mmcourses.co.uk for much more.
Great lesson; I’d been racking my brain, on variations of Claire DeLune on Guitar. I ran into a wall when trying to improvise a solo for it. I’m sure this will help me brainstorm some useful ideas.
Enjoy working on it.
Grazie.
Thanks for your support
similar motif was in 1993 horror adventure game "Shadow Of The Comet" ;)
😀
When it comes to musical topics, this channel is hitting the right notes. The whole tone scale sounds like day dreaming for some reason. I have a question that you might find interesting,Gareth. How do people with large fingers play chords without getting them stuck in between black keys?
Really large fingers can be tricky but most people can find the optimum position of hands and fingers to manage this challenge.
Thank you so much for this!
I've been watching your videos recently and you helped me a lot!
I wonder if you have compositions that I can listen to?
A pleasure. There are a few on the channel with more on the way.
Do you know of any whole tone based compositions that have used a classical sonata structure? Theme A on one whole tone scale, then theme B (a fifth higher?) on the other whole tone scale, development followed by recapitulation that sticks to one whole tone scale. Surely someone must have thought of doing something like that.
An advantage of whole tone is not having to look out for parallel fifths, however without fifths or semitones, I think it is harder to find a sense of resolution in an ending. Although I guess in principle whole tone music is atonal, it is likely to sound as though it contains a lot of minor sevenths looking for a tonic.
I can’t think of a piece that follows that plan. Perhaps that’s because there no sense of the dominant key when using the whole tone scale?
@@MusicMattersGB Yes and I am unsure of how much there is a sense of an alternative whole note scale. Transferring from one to the other could easily feel like a resolution (from a 7th for example), but would continuing in the alternative whole note scale feel different? - I am not so sure for the listener, though a performer would be more aware.
One could write a second theme that is distinctively different in character while remaining in the same transposition of the whole tone scale eg different melodic/ rhythmic character, different tempo/ dynamic/ articulation/ texture.
@@MusicMattersGB Indeed. I wrote a short solo violin piece for my daughter that used the whole tone scale, but alternated it with a 9 note scale based on minor thirds to get a more distinctive contrast. It also allows the music to be simultaneously melodic and atonal. Every so often I think about revising it.
Go for it. Sounds like an interesting piece
Thank you sir ☺️
Can't we use two new key signatures for the two possibilities of the whole tone scale?
You can but taken the number of accidentals you need for both transpositions of the whole tone scale I usually find it easier to write without a key signature.
Make a video composing for an orchestra!
Okay
I really do like the distinctive sound of the whole tone scale but I find it really hard to get a sense of resolution working.
It’s a lovely sound world. Resolutions don’t work in a conventional way but notice how Debussy uses long notes and rests to create moments of repose.
Very interesting sounds.
Just found out whole tone supports dom7 (no 5th) chords. So..... we should be able to compose using 12-bar as a basis. Although IV7 and V7 are not in the same transposition as I7.
Certainly many interesting sounds. It’s good to think beyond the conventions of chords and harmonic function
Very intuitive! Thanks a lot!
Edit: Is there a possibility of you covering Messiaen’s modes of limited transposition, especially after mode 3?
There is a video coming soon on that very topic
Gareth another fantastic lesson thank you.
Listening to the course options you have. I’m just trying to compose little silly funk jazz rock type instrumental tunes on my DAW, would you have a course that could help with that?
We haven’t got anything that specifically relates to DAW but our theory courses and composition course will give you loads of resources for composition.
@@MusicMattersGB Yes that’s what I am after, later I’ll take a look thank you!
A pleasure. There’s much to help you there
@@MusicMattersGB Hi Mr Green I just had a look on the website and I do fall into the category of having plenty of ideas but can never seem to bring it all together. I have a good grasp on theory but will admit I need help with developing a method of working through to the end. One other thing I only have two hours in the evenings.
Would you recommend the composition course? Would this work within the time constraints?
Sorry for being a pain!
You’re not a pain at all. Yes, the composition course will fit you well. Go for it!
Could one not simply use a whole-tone "key signature," such as indicating B, A, and G are flatted, so that sharps and flats do not have to be used throughout the score?
That might be possible as long as the same whole tone scale is being consistently used
Remarkably good exposition but then that is par for the course at this channel...
That’s most kind of you.
Hi Gareth, thanks for your really great video on the topic of writing with the Whole Tone Scale.
I noticed that you didn't mention the preparation and resolution of dissonance and neither did you talk about any potential cadential structures.
Could this be because the Whole Tone Scale offers a strange kind of timelessness to the listener, and creates not so much a developing progression, as with conventional harmonic language, but more an unfoldment of a single moment?
That’s kind. Because we’re not working in a conventional major/ minor environment there are no real cadential structures and consonance/ dissonance functions in a freer way. Much will be non functional so there is no real need to think of the preparation and resolution of dissonance.
Cheers Gareth, very interesting and useful as always. I mainly think of whole-tone scales as a melodic option for dominant chords. Basically lydian +5, usually sounds ... not wrong on b13 dominants.
Interesting thought
Except C Lydian #5 would have a major 7 and a 13, neither is in the whole tone scale. There is some similarity so you could borrow chords from one into the other.
😀
@@russelldougherty3054 hey Russell. I'm referring to dominant chords. Whole tone scale yields +4 and +5 (enharmonically = b13)... And the sixth whole tone = b7. To be sure, it's entirely possible that I'm fooling myself when I think it sounds ok 😉
Hey thelonious1234, just because they aren't the same doesn't mean you can't get some good sounds. They do share the root, 2nd, 3rd, #4 and #5. I could also see modulating from the whole tone to the Lydian #5 and back for some harmonic motion.
There is a Lydian Dominant Augmented scale (R, 2, 3 #4, #5, 6, b7) which is the 3rd mode of Neopolitan Major. It's also the wholetone with an added 6. I've never used it but might work for you.
what do you use to display the keyboard at the bottom?
It’s a program called Synthesia.
@@MusicMattersGB thank you!
😀
I find it hard to write a cohesive song using whole tone scale. I'm not a classical musician, more of a pop/rock guy. I've written a few good " riffs", but I haven't been able to write a whole piece that I'm satisfied with.
It presents new challenges. Worth working with.
@@MusicMattersGB , thanks. I'll try. Your videos are very helpful.
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shall i tell you a joke?
my yt channel.
haha btw amazing video❤️🙌🏻
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This is Chinese music !
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