@@jamesjenkins3276 BS. Govt. ownership brought us everything to and including the Clyde Dam. You talk through a hole in the head. The free-market does not work, stop trying to pretend it does. It is like playing the race card. It is embarrassing to watch and hear.
The government job is to manage the economy and the state of the nation. Fundamental things like water and power should be regulated and designed not to take advantage of the consumer.
No. The governments job is to protect our individual rights from violation....NOT to interfere in the economy or regulate the market. That is why things don't work
@jamesjenkins3276 eeerrr sorry you are wrong. Uncontrolled capitalism is a disaster. America is an example of this in the past and current future as is socialist systems. If you look at the baby boomer era, it was the best however also tax rich was normal, and the social divide was not big. The government job is to represent the democratic mandate by its people and, in my view, stop the excesses of any system, including monopolies or uncontrolled social programs.
Electricity may be cheaper in Australia but it has a similar problem with prices going up from shutting coal fired stations and building stupid renewables.
@@petercreagh8797 New Zealand does not have a car making industry yet. The cars are already being designed to power a house, so they may be part of the answer also.
My Old man left UK in 70's. Came to NZ. Wow. Milk 1 cents. Bread 5 cents. Since that time everything gone backwards. Since Covid most western countries are no longer viable. First time i am thinking of leaving NZ. Don't see any future here. Massive drug problem looming. Government weak to solve any of the issues. Better places to retire too.
I'm old enough to have been a teenager in the late 1970s. I recall milk being 4c a pint during that period, so that's 400% more than what your dad remembers.
@@bobdillon1138 easy have the government buy back Mercury Energy, then run it as non profit, offering electricity at the lowest price possible. Consumers can choose their provider still, but if they keep the prices as low as possible it puts pressure on others to do the same. If they don’t follow suit, they will eventually kill themselves off.
@@bobdillon1138yes it would cost a fortune, but having a single non profit SOE running a system optimal power system would be a million times better and in NZ Incs best interests. Privatisation of the power system was simply absurd. There is NO incentive for generators to build capacity. They profit off scarcity.
We shut down I think 4 generators over the last handful of years...now we wonder why we have a power shortage. We also have about 60% of our generation in hydro making us vulnerable. If we had more gas, coal or even nuclear we would be fine. it's also worth mentioning we imported 2 million people over the last 2 decade and like everyone else they too need power, just like homes, schools and the rest putting up the price of said things.
@@bobdillon1138 Top of the north island or bottom of the south is quite safe. Japan has far more earthquakes than NZ and until the tidalwave caused problems at Fukishima had many nuclear plants. They are slowly building that nuclear sector back after redesigning the previous reactors based on lessons learned from Fukishima. NZ should be doing the same.
Solar and battery are cheaper and are rapidly getting even better and cheaper. Nuclear has long build times. Lots of home and business generation and storage makes a system that is not centralised. This makes the supply less prone to a mass wipe out during a disaster. I am speaking in terms similar to cars replacing horses, because more work got done and not in the Green/Commie idiot's World view.
Maybe someone can explain why line charges keep going up, when technically there are more people occupying the same space, so shouldn’t the price be going down. Shared cost and all.
This is what happens when you focus on building intermittent energy rather than base load.....all the new projects coming on line and all the new projects going threw resource consent are all intermittent energy.....this is what happens when thing are built for ideological political reasons and not built by engineering functional reasons
Large batteries are now being deployed in First World countries to store intermittent energy. Battery technology is in a massive improvement phase. Any small delays will make better and cheaper batteries available. Enormous batteries can be built in three months.
@@KuriosDiogenesJar The grid batteries still only give you a several hours of grid power they are mostly used to keep the grid stable....not a solution....all its doing is driving cost up more rather then building stable grid base load power
@@KuriosDiogenesJar You are incorrect - there is only one type of large battery available - hydro lakes. all other batteries are tiny, only good for load smoothing
@@k1m625 The huge batteries being built now do far more than that. They are also getting better, cheaper and safer every year. At a personal level some electric cars can already provide limited power to a house.
We already did Jacinder did the deal with BlackRock they now manage many of our Kiwisavers through the banks, and bought Solarcity which was renamed SolarZero. Ironically with money provided by our government as part of the deal they entered NZ.
Would getting rid of the middleman providers reduce pricing. One company produces electricity and their administration does the billing instead of one company producing electricity which then contracts several administration services with their own administration and building rental costs, to get customers to buy the electricity through them. The fact that energy suppliers can offer $200 and $300 off the first one or two months billing, suggests to me that these in-between companies are already changing too much. I would like a fair price., not a higher price that pays for other's discounts. A company offering discounts tells me that they are charging too much in the first place Leslie Walters
How many Billions of dollars in profit are they making? Plus you want most of us to drive EV's, It's modern day slavery and I think the politician should pay 400% more than normal working kiwi's for electricity, internet, mobile plans to give them a taste of hardship for a start.
It's taken years of ideological policy to get us in this situation - not enough energy to meet the needs/demand of the country and therefore at an affordable price. This IS what the Green/Labour left wanted. All those who voted for constrained energy should be volunteering to turn off their heaters and fridges and certainly not charge that expensive EV. I want to hear from the rabid anti energy folk that they're turning their power off to reduce demand!
And a big part of the ideological policy that's caused the problem is constant immigration. We used to have 3 million people. Now we have 5 million. Of course we need more electricity -- and as so many in this thread have pointed out, private enterprise ain't gonna generate that.
A friend of mine who has a PhD in economics who used to work in Treasury has already warned the government energy prices will be unaffordable if the government at the time insist on 100 percent renewable, but 95 percent renewable is much more affordable. However Jacinda"s government insisted on 100 percent renewable as they were completely driven by ideology in this matter.
David Seymour is a turn coat. He said at the start of the plandemic, those that will not take the 💉 should be held down and jabbed. He's another Chameleon. He is not trustworthy. 😔 Seymour go blow yourself 😠
Get rid of the idiotic ETS, which is intended to make FF more expensive. Drop the insane net zero policy. Find a way to encourage the installation of another coal-fired electricity generator. Without cheap energy we are buggered. Full stop.
The upcoming energy technology is Thorium reactors. China and USA and India are mid advanced real life trials going. Upside is the non-weapons grade by-products and low cost of the Thorium fuel. Thorium is safer than the conventional nuclear power plants.
Coal is an expensive waste of money. There are better and cheaper ways to get the job done. Stopping the huge immigration would also lower demand. Robots will make most immigrants obsolete.
My son is a linesman, he trained in HB and is now in Perth as the money and environment allows him to advance. The Policies of Unison are ridiculously Climate Change oriented and the DEI system disadvantage the hard working capable young men. He pretty much had to do the work for 2 young girls who couldn’t move a ladder, were afraid of heights and the workings of nuts and bolts, yet Unison bent over backwards to pass them on their Linesman tickets. He found the incompetent workforce were left at Unison because any one with an ounce of ability has been head hunted by the Australians.
wait he goes to another country,gets a job and dei is a bad thing? what did he have as a qualification over an australian worker? if you lived in aussie and he came here and didn't get a job would it still be dei? ahh i guess he was willing to work for 1$ an hr less
I suspect similar hiring practices in NZ are what caused a work crew to remove all the restraining bolts on a power pylon at once causing it to topple and knock out power to the whole of Northland for the better part of a day. Instead of blaming the hiring practices they're pointing fingers at the team leader for not monitoring the bozos enough.
You may want to check out a previous comment I've made about Seymour being wrong here. He referred to Methanex New Zealand as using natural gas to produce urea, when Methanex doesn't produce urea at all, and never has. Sounding right and being right are two different things. If you believe Seymour's approach is right, then tell us why you think that is.
@@ianshand6094 so you are ignoring the bigger context of his argument to quibble about an error concerning methanex? Much like Laws who cant hear the entire argument ("what is the real problem here") because he is too busy triying to make a moot point? Am i right?
@@sunovadistributionn.z.693Nope, you are not right and neither are you answering the question I've asked. If you believe Seymour is right, then please explain why that is.
New Zealand is paying a high price for Jacinda Ardern's vanity projects. "Look at me!" She said to the world...Look at the shit we are in now! Who can forget Shane Jones wiping the sweat off his brow while standing behind Ardern. He must have been thinking..."What the hell was Winston thinking".
Perhaps look at tweaking the market structure like Singapore. The suppliers bid on a base and on marginal. At the moment, the marginal clearing price sets the price for all of the supply over that 15min period. Then we have a mix of lower cost base plus higher cost marginal that matches demand. This way we all benefit from the low cost installed hydro rather than the gentailers making excessive returns on what taxpayers originally paid for.
Why is geothermal not further explored, we are on the ring of fire so would have thought it would be a more likely route for energy production, drill deeper, drilling technology has improved.
Laws didn't propose any solution except the vague notion of emergency regulation. Further, he didn't ask Seymour the obvious question: if this isn't a crisis then nothing is, so what is the government going to do, specifically, to remove barriers to *immediate* building of new generation? If the coalition wanted to it could create special legislation to build a new hydro dam anywhere suitable, and it would not be hard to sell it to the public considering the cost of power and businesses closing because of it. That was the line of questioning that Laws should have pursued.
Yes they could bring in emergency legislation like they did during covid. They could simply follow the same procedure they did when enacting the covid legislation.
That's great, but it doesn't solve the immediate and short to medium term problem. Even if the coalition Govt was able to wave its magic wand, enabling large scale electricity production projects to start tomorrow, we're still screwed. NZ's hydroelectric dams took roughly 5 - 15 years to complete, depending on their complexity.
Market: Many buyers AND sellers who are willing but not desperate to transact. We only have half the equation. Monopolies or Oligopolies cannot remain unfettered. A start would be to prevent vertical integration - would be good in the petrol and diesel supply as well.
One of the main problems is that it makes no sense for the private sector to invest in excess capacity that doesn't get a return. In fact, there's a reverse insensitive in not having enough energy available. I remember a couple of decades ago, Contact Energy tried with millions of customers' dollars to get permission to build a new hydro dam down south and wasted years and years trying to get it through the b%$#dy RMA. and gave up, and here we are.
The last big electric project was Clyde Dam (if I'm not mistaken), we added nearly 2 million people in the years since that was finished. The government needs to be responsible for the generation of new electricity.
It would be great if Seymour actually knew what he was talking about before making ridiculous comments like "... if they (Methanex New Zealand) were to stop turning it (natural gas) into urea...". Methanex New Zealand is the largest user of New Zealand's natural gas, however, it uses that natural gas to produce pure methanol. Methanex Corporation, the owner of Methanex New Zealand, is the largest producer of pure methanol in the world, and the pure methanol is predominantly used as a feedstock for other petrochemical products like MTBE. Methanex New Zealand does NOT make urea, and never has 🙄.
and scooters as tired off been - hit/ fear/ near missis / traumas/ put in Hospital / confused/ letters ignored posted too council/ Beehive/ other- and any other Demons on our - Foot-paths/ streets/ roads/ other.''- invalid- SEan O'Dwyer- 136- 140 Hobson Street.- Auckland City. 1010.- New Zealand.// maha aotearoa.'
The lake is low because the water is being used to fill Auckland storage facilities and there are plenty of new power stations in central north island😢
@@josephl9619 That's not a good solutions because people have greater need for electricity in the winter. The problem is on the supply side and the previous government did everything they could do to choke supply.
@@josephl9619 that's great for old and sick people using electricity. If they stop GST, prices on everything is reduced so people have more money to spend. Better for the ecconomy all round.
@@chrissolutions right i agree the previous government was wrong, and we need more supply. But in the short term we dont have it. High prices will force people to conserve. Lower prices wont, and we will get blackouts. Pick your poison
Of course it is. More money moving in the economy. Will bring down the price of power so people can heat their homes for kids and old people. No heating, worst scenario, people die. Best case, days off work sick and extra costs.
Ok so if the govt doesn't intervene we avoid becoming the Soviet Union. But by letting energy prices soar we will turn into modern day Germany. The former had plenty of industry and the latter is rapidly losing it's industries. Surely the current situation could be described as an emergency and warranting direct intervention for a limited time which could be followed with a hard reset and return to market.
I don’t see why the price of electricity will go up because the lakes are low unless there is not enough electricity and some people are prepared to pay more to get a bigger share. Like buying bread and you have people wanting 20 loaves but there are only ten. You don’t see them saying “well we are spilling water out of the lakes and it’s still raining so we will give you the excess electricity.
One small note. The upper Waitaki Lakes (Ohau, Pukaki, Tekapo) are feed by snow melt, NOT rain as they are in the rain shadow of the Southern Alps. With a change in snowfall on the Alps, there is consequently lower snow melt in the Spring to fill the 3 lakes. I wish the politians, news jocks and public had a much better understanding of South Island geography. Having been involved with the Upper Waitaki Power Development project, namely Tekapo B, Ohau A, B and C power stations, and very large canals connecting these to maximize water usage, I do know what I am talking about. Please check your "facts".
Snow is precipitation. Rain is precipitation. The more water you have in the atmosphere, the more precipitation you get. Doesn't matter whether it comes as rain or snow. Please check your own "facts" Mr Baird.
@@susanpockett4314Rain /= snow AND snow /= rain... so, OP = correct. Also, it's preferable we actually understand what the problem is. It's not a lack of rainfall, it's a lack of snowfall and subsequent snow melt.
Give a subsidy to put solar panels on our roofs and it will take care of the shortage. But while the government is making good money out of the shortage it definitely wont happen
I have some solar because living rural there are power cuts and the power isn't exactly without surges and spikes. The modem is for the phone and internet but it drops out with grid power and has to reset often. To have a viable and dependable stand alone system has cost over $5000. This system also runs the fridge, but doesn't cope with more than 5 days of rain and cloud. There seems to be a battery fault at the moment and it has only been running 3 years. Going alternate is not good as it needs some technical ability to operate and maintain and is a poor use of investment money. 10% of $5000 is $500/ year or $42 per month. The power bill is usually about $20 per month but the power company is now increasing the line or added charges by $10/month till 2027. The fixed charges are now $30 and could end up $70 but the actual power has increased a small amount. What appears to be happening is that as time goes on prices increase, businesses and private households become less viable and close their accounts and the phone, internet and power suppliers increase their prices to compensate. Having solar is a trap instigated by monopolies who are shedding costs to increase profits at everyone else's expense.
We could make better use of our smart meters to allow effective use of off-peak power and reduce the peak demand. Also could facilitate people with solar panels to sell excess power back to the grid.
Seymour’s comments are absurd. Businesses are going under due to the excessive power prices. More will continue to go under and further destroy the NZ economy while the prices stay this high. Previous right wing govts caused this mess by privatising the power market. This govt needs to fix it so that NZ has viable stable power prices for businesses to thrive in.
Business didn't have any such problems under Key's government. The economy has taken a huge hit since covid. Labour borrowing billions to pay for people to stay at home instead of going to work has not helped.
I can't recall a time in history when the price of power has lead to business closures. It will put off new businesses that want to start up too. I heard on Newstalk ZB Fonterra was getting concerned too. Does this govt want the whole country on the dole I wonder? I wonder how much having EV carless days would help or even banning the sale of them as they are big consumers of power when charging.
It's got nothing to do with privatisation, it's about supply. Previous Labour govts under Clarke brought in RMA (i.e. costly regulations), and Jacinda banned all oil & gas exploration, as well as insisting on 100% renewable energy. Sounds like you probably voted for these socialists, so stop complaining.
Seymours right, BUT no mention from either on increasing demand from 3% population growth per annum + EV needs. When are we going to start discussing our population strategy?
Much as I’m in favour of functional markets, where there is market failure in a critical utility sector then government is responsible to fix or reform it. Unfortunately that’s where ACT seems to run out of useful suggestions.
Who governs generation capacity? Mandate minimum available capacity and scarcity is no longer a tool to retail profit. The people and the state economy have a right to not be held hostage by electric rates.
Charge the gen companies for the water in the dams then give that money to kiwis to offset the power bills. Or just nationalize all the power stations and provide energy to companies and public at cost + 5~10% to be used to build more
Gentailers all put water thru generators to supply power to their retail customers,when Nzed controlled generation they put water thrutheir dams from where the most water capacity was , Not like now when water is run thru each gentailors generators to keep their wholesalers happy
You need a long and short time binding resilient power supply. To many times Governments get in and change for there own narrative. I went to a rental, they had a dangerous gas heater going in front room because they can't afford the power, real danger of carbon monoxide poisoning. All I could do was advise, tell property rental company. NZ people are struggling. Things are tight.
Solar panel and battery technology are improving so rapidly and dropping in cost, that this problem will solve itself. The solar supply needs to be high enough to fill the batteries at the darkest time of year. A lot more people and businesses will just make their own electricity and drive their cars on it. Great for NZ. No long distance shipping hauls of oil. NZers have lived through tougher times.
Solar is an expensive exercise and requires some technical ability to install and maintain it. The average charging time is only about 6 hours per day maximum depending on the weather when it will then be less. A grid tied system is where the instillation cost is made a free gift to the power company.
@@allanvrc725 The drop in cost of batteries and solar collectors in the very near future and improvements in technology will improve this. There are already a lot of huge improvements about to commence. It will only need a sizable proportion of people making their own electricity to take pressure off the grid. This will also reduce the need for poles and wires. I have doubts about the common sense of the past sale of electricity assets that the government had owned and developed over many years. The fashion of selling the house to pay off the Mastercard was pushed to governments Worldwide by merchant bankers, with little interest in honesty. In Queensland Australia, the State Government did not sell of its electricity assets, despite Federal Government pressure. The States that privatised their networks ended up with blackouts and other emergencies and financial bail outs.
Calculation shows that the work done by water in a hydro power system to generate electric power and then used to do work moving a load from battery storage up a hill, is 0.1% efficient. Losses compound. There is a problem with power generation and the humble electrical transformer can offer some answers. This device has electric currents in two separate windings that are wrapped around an iron core that then contains a small strength magnetic circuit. The only link between the two electric circuits, an input and an output, is a tiny magnetic field. The currents flow in opposite directions almost cancelling out the magnetism that is produce when current flows in a coil. It is much like a differential with a small phase difference as one current leads the other. The tested magnetic effect in an 80 watt device is DC equivalent, 0.032 watts ( 0.9 volt x 0.035 amp ) and when this is divided into 80/0.032 = 2500. It is only 1/2500th of the load. If the transformer has 1350 turns of wire then the ampere turns is 47.25, (1350t x 0.035 amp.) When this small magnetic field is increased and decreased the input and the output increase significantly. It is only a matter of maintaining an ampere turns ratio relationship more or less between the currents in the two separate windings at all times. A simple engine driven generator produces power by the rate of change of the magnetic field and the strength of the magnetic field. This is generally magnetism acting on one winding, where the rotating, alternating, magnetic field produces a current that has a magnetic field that opposes the one creating it in the first place. This is similar to squeezing two repelling magnet poles together. The action is direct 1:1 and has losses because the magnetism can be quenched as it is diverted. Although the frequency is fixed in the usual two winding transformer the rate and the amount of change with a higher voltage and also a stronger magnetic field in the link meets the requirements to generate power.
Shut down more power plants. Particularly coal and gas. Discourage investment in energy infrastructure. This will drive up all costs including food and will cascade into small business failures and big businesses heading off shore. Thats the best way forward.
Thank the stars for David. What a communicator. Total respect. I drove past Lake Hawea the other day, it is freaky low. "The best Govt. is small Govt."
Are you telling me our energy generating capacity has got to this point in four years? my power bill was nothing like this in 2019, are you kidding me. Apparently, the climate people say its raining more than ever and from my last three months observation would have to agree, yet the lakes are empty?? Also agree that the market should set the price, but from from what i see, the market players seem to be working together?
Disappointing Michael - you avoided discussing the other side of the equation, demand. Various government's immigration settings have meant that extra generation has to be built.
The problem with NZs energy infrastructure is that all don’t do anything until the last minute, waited until it became to expensive, and then chose to pick the quick, easy fix which will only be short term and not sufficient nor sustainable because they only think about short term electability not what is best for everyone long term the same goes for every aspect of infrastructure, health, defence.
1) Shows the sheer stupidity of trying, and completely failing to turn electricity supply into a business. Generators are all getting paid the highest marginal price of worst price power generator (i.e. massive excess profits) in each supply period. The system simply doesn't work no matter how much the regulator tries to fudge it. There is no financial incentive for generators to add capacity. 2) There is a direct correlation between power use and GDP & thus a high benefit/cost ratio of providing NZ Inc with low-cost resilient power supply. 3) NZ would be far better off with a non-profit SOE that runs a system optimal power generation system and only makes enough excess revenue to maintain and upgrade the system & pay the interest on bonds to cover the capital works. We would have had the right investments in the right place at the right time, not this current complete and total failure. Marginal and average power prices would be a lot closer and NZ paying less. 4) What is worse is the govt (as shareholder) is then using the excess dividend profits and tax from the power generators to spend in NZ. Most of that spending will be at lower benefit/cost ratios for NZ Inc, given govt doesn't force all spending through cost benefit assessment and then spend from the highest to lowest by ranking until it's out of budget.
As 51% shareholders our government is making good money from electricity and show no sign of changing.
If the previous NAT govt hadn't sold 49% there would be no shareholders
demanding they make max profits and Govt would have more control over pricing.
..its an ''indirect tax..''always was..
Take electricity off the market Rodger Douglas was wrong
No. Power is properly a market service. Government ownership is terrible
@@jamesjenkins3276 BS. Govt. ownership brought us everything to and including the Clyde Dam. You talk through a hole in the head. The free-market does not work, stop trying to pretend it does. It is like playing the race card. It is embarrassing to watch and hear.
"The market" would build ten new coal-fired power stations. If only NZ were so lucky.
The government job is to manage the economy and the state of the nation. Fundamental things like water and power should be regulated and designed not to take advantage of the consumer.
That’s goes back to Rogernomics
No. The governments job is to protect our individual rights from violation....NOT to interfere in the economy or regulate the market. That is why things don't work
@jamesjenkins3276 eeerrr sorry you are wrong. Uncontrolled capitalism is a disaster. America is an example of this in the past and current future as is socialist systems. If you look at the baby boomer era, it was the best however also tax rich was normal, and the social divide was not big.
The government job is to represent the democratic mandate by its people and, in my view, stop the excesses of any system, including monopolies or uncontrolled social programs.
@@jamesjenkins3276 BS, you have absolutely no idea what you talk about.
@@jamesw7565 Correct!
No hydro generation built since the RMA came into effect.
National’s Max Bradford privatised the electricity market! What a mess - significantly cheaper in Australia?
Australia has got problems as well. Closing down thermal power stations before any alternative is available. Prices sky high.
He didn't. Government still has a majority stake in generation. This situation is government caused
Electricity may be cheaper in Australia but it has a similar problem with prices going up from shutting coal fired stations and building stupid renewables.
Electric vehicles have added extra demand on the power sector without having the infrastructure.. just saying.
I bet EV carless days will be on the horizon and maybe a sales ban too if large companies start shutting down on mass.
@@petercreagh8797 New Zealand does not have a car making industry yet. The cars are already being designed to power a house, so they may be part of the answer also.
Just do more exercise to raise your metabolism
My Old man left UK in 70's. Came to NZ. Wow. Milk 1 cents. Bread 5 cents. Since that time everything gone backwards. Since Covid most western countries are no longer viable. First time i am thinking of leaving NZ. Don't see any future here. Massive drug problem looming. Government weak to solve any of the issues. Better places to retire too.
where?
I'm old enough to have been a teenager in the late 1970s. I recall milk being 4c a pint during that period, so that's 400% more than what your dad remembers.
Milk is still one cent and bread three cents at 4 Square
Nationalise the electricity industry simple
Or at the very least have a retailer that is government owned that is non profit to keep prices lower.
How would you do that exactly? our electricity sector is a goldmine
and investors aren't going to want to give up there shares.
@@bobdillon1138 easy have the government buy back Mercury Energy, then run it as non profit, offering electricity at the lowest price possible. Consumers can choose their provider still, but if they keep the prices as low as possible it puts pressure on others to do the same. If they don’t follow suit, they will eventually kill themselves off.
@@bobdillon1138yes it would cost a fortune, but having a single non profit SOE running a system optimal power system would be a million times better and in NZ Incs best interests.
Privatisation of the power system was simply absurd. There is NO incentive for generators to build capacity. They profit off scarcity.
@@bobdillon1138 How would you do that? Reverse Rogernomics. That was originally done by legistlation, so it can be reversed by legislation.
We shut down I think 4 generators over the last handful of years...now we wonder why we have a power shortage.
We also have about 60% of our generation in hydro making us vulnerable. If we had more gas, coal or even nuclear we would be fine.
it's also worth mentioning we imported 2 million people over the last 2 decade and like everyone else they too need power, just like homes, schools and the rest putting up the price of said things.
I am all for Nuclear but it is risky on these shaky isles.
@@bobdillon1138 Top of the north island or bottom of the south is quite safe. Japan has far more earthquakes than NZ and until the tidalwave caused problems at Fukishima had many nuclear plants. They are slowly building that nuclear sector back after redesigning the previous reactors based on lessons learned from Fukishima. NZ should be doing the same.
I would prefer more geo thermal plant's, NZ use to be world leaders in this technology
Solar and battery are cheaper and are rapidly getting even better and cheaper. Nuclear has long build times. Lots of home and business generation and storage makes a system that is not centralised. This makes the supply less prone to a mass wipe out during a disaster. I am speaking in terms similar to cars replacing horses, because more work got done and not in the Green/Commie idiot's World view.
Presumably NZ needed 2 million new people to man all of those factories. Or was it all of those government jobs that needed people?
NZ has unlimited geothermal energy.Just what is the handbreak ffs?
Greenys
We need to hike up our focus on making it easier to build appropriate infrastructure. And that applies for across the board.
Maybe someone can explain why line charges keep going up, when technically there are more people occupying the same space, so shouldn’t the price be going down. Shared cost and all.
Done on purpose by the last Labour government - they allowed it
This is what happens when you focus on building intermittent energy rather than base load.....all the new projects coming on line and all the new projects going threw resource consent are all intermittent energy.....this is what happens when thing are built for ideological political reasons and not built by engineering functional reasons
Well said, all MP's take note.
Large batteries are now being deployed in First World countries to store intermittent energy. Battery technology is in a massive improvement phase. Any small delays will make better and cheaper batteries available. Enormous batteries can be built in three months.
@@KuriosDiogenesJar The grid batteries still only give you a several hours of grid power they are mostly used to keep the grid stable....not a solution....all its doing is driving cost up more rather then building stable grid base load power
@@KuriosDiogenesJar You are incorrect - there is only one type of large battery available - hydro lakes.
all other batteries are tiny, only good for load smoothing
@@k1m625 The huge batteries being built now do far more than that. They are also getting better, cheaper and safer every year. At a personal level some electric cars can already provide limited power to a house.
Just as long as we don't sell to Blackrock and Van Guard and State Street Corporation.
We already did Jacinder did the deal with BlackRock they now manage many of our Kiwisavers through the banks, and bought Solarcity which was renamed SolarZero. Ironically with money provided by our government as part of the deal they entered NZ.
@@dave24-73 solar power and battery storage is the way to go especially when you can use your car battery
@@jack-xx8bi having worked in Solar I’d disagree, but each to their own.
Would getting rid of the middleman providers reduce pricing. One company produces electricity and their administration does the billing instead of one company producing electricity which then contracts several administration services with their own administration and building rental costs, to get customers to buy the electricity through them. The fact that energy suppliers can offer $200 and $300 off the first one or two months billing, suggests to me that these in-between companies are already changing too much. I would like a fair price., not a higher price that pays for other's discounts. A company offering discounts tells me that they are charging too much in the first place
Leslie Walters
How many Billions of dollars in profit are they making? Plus you want most of us to drive EV's, It's modern day slavery and I think the politician should pay 400% more than normal working kiwi's for electricity, internet, mobile plans to give them a taste of hardship for a start.
It's taken years of ideological policy to get us in this situation - not enough energy to meet the needs/demand of the country and therefore at an affordable price. This IS what the Green/Labour left wanted. All those who voted for constrained energy should be volunteering to turn off their heaters and fridges and certainly not charge that expensive EV. I want to hear from the rabid anti energy folk that they're turning their power off to reduce demand!
No, we got here because a right wing govt privatised power generation.
And a big part of the ideological policy that's caused the problem is constant immigration. We used to have 3 million people. Now we have 5 million. Of course we need more electricity -- and as so many in this thread have pointed out, private enterprise ain't gonna generate that.
A friend of mine who has a PhD in economics who used to work in Treasury has already warned the government energy prices will be unaffordable if the government at the time insist on 100 percent renewable, but 95 percent renewable is much more affordable. However Jacinda"s government insisted on 100 percent renewable as they were completely driven by ideology in this matter.
Well we threw out the Labour govt. What's the delay about throwing out their ideology?
Amusingly New Zealand is one of the countries that benefits from global warming.
My last bill was just shy of $600. I have now left the country and am living in Serbia.
Marxist Ardern effect. She still living in NZ? Klaus Schwab wants her home in Europe.
Hopefully she never lives here again.🤞🙏🏼
Victim Support.- Sean O'Dwyer.- number 136- 140 Hobson Street.- Auckland 1010.- New Zealand.''
@@honahwikeepa2115 I don’t know where she is but let’s just hope she stays there.🤞🙏🏼
David Seymour is a turn coat. He said at the start of the plandemic, those that will not take the 💉 should be held down and jabbed.
He's another Chameleon.
He is not trustworthy. 😔
Seymour go blow yourself 😠
Get rid of the idiotic ETS, which is intended to make FF more expensive.
Drop the insane net zero policy.
Find a way to encourage the installation of another coal-fired electricity generator.
Without cheap energy we are buggered.
Full stop.
Nuclear needs to be investigated
Yes
The upcoming energy technology is Thorium reactors. China and USA and India are mid advanced real life trials going. Upside is the non-weapons grade by-products and low cost of the Thorium fuel. Thorium is safer than the conventional nuclear power plants.
CANDU have a very good safety rating. No one seems to care about coal station exhaust.
We are on the ring of fire and probably too earthquake prone, I would have though geothermal would be the better route.
I agree but is risky and you will find there are a lot of nimby's
I wonder if rob muldoon would do the same. David’s becoming flaky in my view.
He always was a demented ideological flake. It’s just becoming more self evident.
build a new coal fired power station at Huntly,reopen coal mining at Huntly.
Coal is an expensive waste of money. There are better and cheaper ways to get the job done. Stopping the huge immigration would also lower demand. Robots will make most immigrants obsolete.
Short term we can import gas. Setting up a gas ship only takes a few months.
My son is a linesman, he trained in HB and is now in Perth as the money and environment allows him to advance.
The Policies of Unison are ridiculously Climate Change oriented and the DEI system disadvantage the hard working capable young men. He pretty much had to do the work for 2 young girls who couldn’t move a ladder, were afraid of heights and the workings of nuts and bolts, yet Unison bent over backwards to pass them on their Linesman tickets. He found the incompetent workforce were left at Unison because any one with an ounce of ability has been head hunted by the Australians.
wait he goes to another country,gets a job and dei is a bad thing? what did he have as a qualification over an australian worker? if you lived in aussie and he came here and didn't get a job would it still be dei? ahh i guess he was willing to work for 1$ an hr less
@@aguy6833 wtf?
I suspect similar hiring practices in NZ are what caused a work crew to remove all the restraining bolts on a power pylon at once causing it to topple and knock out power to the whole of Northland for the better part of a day. Instead of blaming the hiring practices they're pointing fingers at the team leader for not monitoring the bozos enough.
? What's HB?
@@damionkeeling3103More like holding down nuts.
David Seymour is always so clear, direct and usually right. imo he is right here..
he is a knob
You may want to check out a previous comment I've made about Seymour being wrong here. He referred to Methanex New Zealand as using natural gas to produce urea, when Methanex doesn't produce urea at all, and never has.
Sounding right and being right are two different things.
If you believe Seymour's approach is right, then tell us why you think that is.
@@ianshand6094 so you are ignoring the bigger context of his argument to quibble about an error concerning methanex? Much like Laws who cant hear the entire argument ("what is the real problem here") because he is too busy triying to make a moot point? Am i right?
@@sunovadistributionn.z.693Nope, you are not right and neither are you answering the question I've asked.
If you believe Seymour is right, then please explain why that is.
@@ianshand6094 tell me the question you reckon you asked?
New Zealand is paying a high price for Jacinda Ardern's vanity projects.
"Look at me!" She said to the world...Look at the shit we are in now!
Who can forget Shane Jones wiping the sweat off his brow while standing behind Ardern.
He must have been thinking..."What the hell was Winston thinking".
jones was sweating cause he thought ardern was going to audit him
This needs to be mentioned every time the government talks to the failing media
you answered your own question Michael. But only in that cindy stuffed us from gaining anything but grief.
F the slolar and wind
Perhaps look at tweaking the market structure like Singapore. The suppliers bid on a base and on marginal. At the moment, the marginal clearing price sets the price for all of the supply over that 15min period. Then we have a mix of lower cost base plus higher cost marginal that matches demand. This way we all benefit from the low cost installed hydro rather than the gentailers making excessive returns on what taxpayers originally paid for.
Exactly
Why is geothermal not further explored, we are on the ring of fire so would have thought it would be a more likely route for energy production, drill deeper, drilling technology has improved.
Laws didn't propose any solution except the vague notion of emergency regulation. Further, he didn't ask Seymour the obvious question: if this isn't a crisis then nothing is, so what is the government going to do, specifically, to remove barriers to *immediate* building of new generation?
If the coalition wanted to it could create special legislation to build a new hydro dam anywhere suitable, and it would not be hard to sell it to the public considering the cost of power and businesses closing because of it.
That was the line of questioning that Laws should have pursued.
Yes this is a crisis, like so many other crises affecting NZ and Seymour simply washes his hands of any responsibility to fix the immediate issues.
@@ooo-vc4xl Be my guest. What *specific* measures should the government take?
Yes they could bring in emergency legislation like they did during covid. They could simply follow the same procedure they did when enacting the covid legislation.
That's great, but it doesn't solve the immediate and short to medium term problem.
Even if the coalition Govt was able to wave its magic wand, enabling large scale electricity production projects to start tomorrow, we're still screwed.
NZ's hydroelectric dams took roughly 5 - 15 years to complete, depending on their complexity.
@@ianshand6094 What *specific* measures should the government take? Right now. What should they do?
Market: Many buyers AND sellers who are willing but not desperate to transact. We only have half the equation. Monopolies or Oligopolies cannot remain unfettered. A start would be to prevent vertical integration - would be good in the petrol and diesel supply as well.
One of the main problems is that it makes no sense for the private sector to invest in excess capacity that doesn't get a return. In fact, there's a reverse insensitive in not having enough energy available. I remember a couple of decades ago, Contact Energy tried with millions of customers' dollars to get permission to build a new hydro dam down south and wasted years and years trying to get it through the b%$#dy RMA. and gave up, and here we are.
It makes no sense to have the private sector involved at all.
@@susanpockett4314 Because the government is so effective at delivering projects that are competitive and cost effective...!
The last big electric project was Clyde Dam (if I'm not mistaken), we added nearly 2 million people in the years since that was finished. The government needs to be responsible for the generation of new electricity.
Cant you remember the Clyde dams problams and overfuns which led to the closing of the ministry of works
It would be great if Seymour actually knew what he was talking about before making ridiculous comments like "... if they (Methanex New Zealand) were to stop turning it (natural gas) into urea...".
Methanex New Zealand is the largest user of New Zealand's natural gas, however, it uses that natural gas to produce pure methanol.
Methanex Corporation, the owner of Methanex New Zealand, is the largest producer of pure methanol in the world, and the pure methanol is predominantly used as a feedstock for other petrochemical products like MTBE.
Methanex New Zealand does NOT make urea, and never has 🙄.
This man is right. He should be our prime minister.
Get rid of electric cars??? More domestic power.
and scooters as tired off been - hit/ fear/ near missis / traumas/ put in Hospital / confused/ letters ignored posted too council/ Beehive/ other- and any other Demons on our - Foot-paths/ streets/ roads/ other.''- invalid- SEan O'Dwyer- 136- 140 Hobson Street.- Auckland City. 1010.- New Zealand.// maha aotearoa.'
Finland opened a new nuclear power station recently. Power prices went down.
The cleanest form of energy won't be considered because of an out-dated 1970's attitude towards anything to do with Nuclear.
head of greenpeace left greenpeace because of their outdated attitude towards nuclear and is now the biggest proponent of nuclear energy for auckland
Fukushima didn't happen in the 1970s, and it's still producing radioactive seafood.
The lake is low because the water is being used to fill Auckland storage facilities and there are plenty of new power stations in central north island😢
Iceland uses geothermal for generation why hasn't NZ carried on and developed more geothermal
The quick way to fix high prices on everything is drop GST. No one talks about that.
High prices will make people use less electricity which is what we need because we dont have suppply.
@@josephl9619 That's not a good solutions because people have greater need for electricity in the winter. The problem is on the supply side and the previous government did everything they could do to choke supply.
@@josephl9619 that's great for old and sick people using electricity. If they stop GST, prices on everything is reduced so people have more money to spend. Better for the ecconomy all round.
@@chrissolutions right i agree the previous government was wrong, and we need more supply. But in the short term we dont have it. High prices will force people to conserve. Lower prices wont, and we will get blackouts. Pick your poison
Of course it is. More money moving in the economy. Will bring down the price of power so people can heat their homes for kids and old people. No heating, worst scenario, people die. Best case, days off work sick and extra costs.
Ok so if the govt doesn't intervene we avoid becoming the Soviet Union. But by letting energy prices soar we will turn into modern day Germany. The former had plenty of industry and the latter is rapidly losing it's industries. Surely the current situation could be described as an emergency and warranting direct intervention for a limited time which could be followed with a hard reset and return to market.
So you're suggesting the govt build more capacity and then GIVE it to private enterprise? Yeah right.
Well said David
Not suprised nothing is going to change. Never does.
True colours Seymour...Govt has an obligation to put the welfare of the people before rapacious business interests.
I don’t see why the price of electricity will go up because the lakes are low unless there is not enough electricity and some people are prepared to pay more to get a bigger share. Like buying bread and you have people wanting 20 loaves but there are only ten. You don’t see them saying “well we are spilling water out of the lakes and it’s still raining so we will give you the excess electricity.
you know what doesn't gaf about the water in lakes? geothermal.never hear any of them talk about it
One small note. The upper Waitaki Lakes (Ohau, Pukaki, Tekapo) are feed by snow melt, NOT rain as they are in the rain shadow of the Southern Alps. With a change in snowfall on the Alps, there is consequently lower snow melt in the Spring to fill the 3 lakes. I wish the politians, news jocks and public had a much better understanding of South Island geography. Having been involved with the Upper Waitaki Power Development project, namely Tekapo B, Ohau A, B and C power stations, and very large canals connecting these to maximize water usage, I do know what I am talking about. Please check your "facts".
Snow is precipitation. Rain is precipitation. The more water you have in the atmosphere, the more precipitation you get. Doesn't matter whether it comes as rain or snow. Please check your own "facts" Mr Baird.
@@susanpockett4314Rain /= snow AND snow /= rain... so, OP = correct. Also, it's preferable we actually understand what the problem is. It's not a lack of rainfall, it's a lack of snowfall and subsequent snow melt.
Give a subsidy to put solar panels on our roofs and it will take care of the shortage. But while the government is making good money out of the shortage it definitely wont happen
I have some solar because living rural there are power cuts and the power isn't exactly without surges and spikes. The modem is for the phone and internet but it drops out with grid power and has to reset often. To have a viable and dependable stand alone system has cost over $5000. This system also runs the fridge, but doesn't cope with more than 5 days of rain and cloud. There seems to be a battery fault at the moment and it has only been running 3 years.
Going alternate is not good as it needs some technical ability to operate and maintain and is a poor use of investment money. 10% of $5000 is $500/ year or $42 per month. The power bill is usually about $20 per month but the power company is now increasing the line or added charges by $10/month till 2027.
The fixed charges are now $30 and could end up $70 but the actual power has increased a small amount.
What appears to be happening is that as time goes on prices increase, businesses and private households become less viable and close their accounts and the phone, internet and power suppliers increase their prices to compensate.
Having solar is a trap instigated by monopolies who are shedding costs to increase profits at everyone else's expense.
Get rid of the ETS, that is what is crippling us
Have we allowed Rio Tinto to have too much of our electricity?
It looks like far more jobs are going to be lost by allowing them to continue operating than by allowing them to close.
Why would private companies want to provide cheap power
So govt can change the law for mining but they cant stop the monopoly on electricity. Ok?
So, the free market does not work supermarkets petrol Roger Douglas Max Bradford. Give me Muldoon any day = :):)
He was right, wasn't he.. :):) All along, he was spot on!
It works except why spend a billion on torturous consents when you can run things at 99.995% for a few more years
@@Michael-lg4wz Is that what the supermarkets and petrol companies are telling us...?
The Electricity Grid was a essential utility built and paid for by the Tax payer and some idiots sold it to Private Equity.... Bring back the NZED
Seymour basically saying "Let them eat cake."
Just look at Russia if you want to see how a country can benefit from its natural resources
The real problem was that it was privatised by national in the first place! THEY SOLD IT OFF AFTER TAXPAYERS HAD PAID FOR IT.
We could make better use of our smart meters to allow effective use of off-peak power and reduce the peak demand.
Also could facilitate people with solar panels to sell excess power back to the grid.
They have made steps ... Industry have pulled back ... Which effects GDP ... We have a lack of generation because we made it so hard to happen.
Seymour’s comments are absurd. Businesses are going under due to the excessive power prices. More will continue to go under and further destroy the NZ economy while the prices stay this high. Previous right wing govts caused this mess by privatising the power market. This govt needs to fix it so that NZ has viable stable power prices for businesses to thrive in.
Business didn't have any such problems under Key's government. The economy has taken a huge hit since covid. Labour borrowing billions to pay for people to stay at home instead of going to work has not helped.
I can't recall a time in history when the price of power has lead to business closures. It will put off new businesses that want to start up too. I heard on Newstalk ZB Fonterra was getting concerned too. Does this govt want the whole country on the dole I wonder? I wonder how much having EV carless days would help or even banning the sale of them as they are big consumers of power when charging.
It's got nothing to do with privatisation, it's about supply. Previous Labour govts under Clarke brought in RMA (i.e. costly regulations), and Jacinda banned all oil & gas exploration, as well as insisting on 100% renewable energy. Sounds like you probably voted for these socialists, so stop complaining.
Need to take a look at the power being used to charge electric cars !!!! This usage is really not being mentioned in this problem as well
Seymours right, BUT no mention from either on increasing demand from 3% population growth per annum + EV needs.
When are we going to start discussing our population strategy?
Much as I’m in favour of functional markets, where there is market failure in a critical utility sector then government is responsible to fix or reform it. Unfortunately that’s where ACT seems to run out of useful suggestions.
The greens are pretty quiet atm
The true situation is that there is maintenance going on when it should be done in the summer.
Who governs generation capacity? Mandate minimum available capacity and scarcity is no longer a tool to retail profit. The people and the state economy have a right to not be held hostage by electric rates.
how about the gov to subsids solar panels for home owners
Charge the gen companies for the water in the dams then give that money to kiwis to offset the power bills. Or just nationalize all the power stations and provide energy to companies and public at cost + 5~10% to be used to build more
Get those 500,000 immigrants to do their part and get bicycle generators so they get fit and help the new country
Isn’t it only wholesale prices that are spiking?
Great Captains call Jacinda.
So disapppointed in David slighting aussies
While they bribe us to take our best and brightest.
And send us there 501's 🤷
David Seymour.......Based!
Ardern gave the power to these so-called power companies to charge what ever
Sure, there not owned by Nga Tahu
21st C is calling , small modular reactors. Time for a referendum on nuclear power
Gentailers all put water thru generators to supply power to their retail customers,when Nzed controlled generation they put water thrutheir dams from where the most water capacity was , Not like now when water is run thru each gentailors generators to keep their wholesalers happy
You need a long and short time binding resilient power supply. To many times Governments get in and change for there own narrative. I went to a rental, they had a dangerous gas heater going in front room because they can't afford the power, real danger of carbon monoxide poisoning. All I could do was advise, tell property rental company. NZ people are struggling. Things are tight.
Solar panel and battery technology are improving so rapidly and dropping in cost, that this problem will solve itself.
The solar supply needs to be high enough to fill the batteries at the darkest time of year. A lot more people and businesses will just make their own electricity and drive their cars on it.
Great for NZ. No long distance shipping hauls of oil.
NZers have lived through tougher times.
Solar is an expensive exercise and requires some technical ability to install and maintain it. The average charging time is only about 6 hours per day maximum depending on the weather when it will then be less.
A grid tied system is where the instillation cost is made a free gift to the power company.
@@allanvrc725 The drop in cost of batteries and solar collectors in the very near future and improvements in technology will improve this. There are already a lot of huge improvements about to commence. It will only need a sizable proportion of people making their own electricity to take pressure off the grid. This will also reduce the need for poles and wires. I have doubts about the common sense of the past sale of electricity assets that the government had owned and developed over many years. The fashion of selling the house to pay off the Mastercard was pushed to governments Worldwide by merchant bankers, with little interest in honesty. In Queensland Australia, the State Government did not sell of its electricity assets, despite Federal Government pressure. The States that privatised their networks ended up with blackouts and other emergencies and financial bail outs.
David is a legend
knob
David is an electrical engineer. You want leaders who are honest. That means they cannot tell you what you want to hear sometimes. Facts are facts.
So the evs can still get charged. Which short the quanity for homeowners
I hear that 5G towers take a lot of power to run and data storage warehouses
Calculation shows that the work done by water in a hydro power system to generate electric power and then used to do work moving a load from battery storage up a hill, is 0.1% efficient. Losses compound.
There is a problem with power generation and the humble electrical transformer can offer some answers. This device has electric currents in two separate windings that are wrapped around an iron core that then contains a small strength magnetic circuit.
The only link between the two electric circuits, an input and an output, is a tiny magnetic field. The currents flow in opposite directions almost cancelling out the magnetism that is produce when current flows in a coil. It is much like a differential with a small phase difference as one current leads the other.
The tested magnetic effect in an 80 watt device is DC equivalent, 0.032 watts ( 0.9 volt x 0.035 amp ) and when this is divided into 80/0.032 = 2500. It is only 1/2500th of the load. If the transformer has 1350 turns of wire then the ampere turns is 47.25, (1350t x 0.035 amp.) When this small magnetic field is increased and decreased the input and the output increase significantly. It is only a matter of maintaining an ampere turns ratio relationship more or less between the currents in the two separate windings at all times.
A simple engine driven generator produces power by the rate of change of the magnetic field and the strength of the magnetic field. This is generally magnetism acting on one winding, where the rotating, alternating, magnetic field produces a current that has a magnetic field that opposes the one creating it in the first place. This is similar to squeezing two repelling magnet poles together. The action is direct 1:1 and has losses because the magnetism can be quenched as it is diverted.
Although the frequency is fixed in the usual two winding transformer the rate and the amount of change with a higher voltage and also a stronger magnetic field in the link meets the requirements to generate power.
Cant keep listening to this interview! When the cabinet is arguing about the forshore and seabed! Ffs
Shut down more power plants. Particularly coal and gas. Discourage investment in energy infrastructure. This will drive up all costs including food and will cascade into small business failures and big businesses heading off shore. Thats the best way forward.
Thank the stars for David. What a communicator. Total respect. I drove past Lake Hawea the other day, it is freaky low.
"The best Govt. is small Govt."
600% increase in 3 years is not a loss, Seymour! How long are you going to 'blame' the last government?
Profiteering full stop.
Are you telling me our energy generating capacity has got to this point in four years? my power bill was nothing like this in 2019, are you kidding me. Apparently, the climate people say its raining more than ever and from my last three months observation would have to agree, yet the lakes are empty?? Also agree that the market should set the price, but from from what i see, the market players seem to be working together?
Disappointing Michael - you avoided discussing the other side of the equation, demand.
Various government's immigration settings have meant that extra generation has to be built.
Seymour...Give nothing A policy proud of David's act farty legacy.
Just got my passport. Don’t wanna leave my home… but better to to have an escape plan rather than UTU.
really like David Seymour, honest and plain spoken
The problem with NZs energy infrastructure is that all don’t do anything until the last minute, waited until it became to expensive, and then chose to pick the quick, easy fix which will only be short term and not sufficient nor sustainable because they only think about short term electability not what is best for everyone long term the same goes for every aspect of infrastructure, health, defence.
david,what is russia's gdp? even with a proxy war to deal with
U guys have an app
1) Shows the sheer stupidity of trying, and completely failing to turn electricity supply into a business. Generators are all getting paid the highest marginal price of worst price power generator (i.e. massive excess profits) in each supply period. The system simply doesn't work no matter how much the regulator tries to fudge it. There is no financial incentive for generators to add capacity.
2) There is a direct correlation between power use and GDP & thus a high benefit/cost ratio of providing NZ Inc with low-cost resilient power supply.
3) NZ would be far better off with a non-profit SOE that runs a system optimal power generation system and only makes enough excess revenue to maintain and upgrade the system & pay the interest on bonds to cover the capital works. We would have had the right investments in the right place at the right time, not this current complete and total failure. Marginal and average power prices would be a lot closer and NZ paying less.
4) What is worse is the govt (as shareholder) is then using the excess dividend profits and tax from the power generators to spend in NZ. Most of that spending will be at lower benefit/cost ratios for NZ Inc, given govt doesn't force all spending through cost benefit assessment and then spend from the highest to lowest by ranking until it's out of budget.