In St. Augustine's Confessions, he describes his exact same conversion. He was reading the latest and greatest philosophy of the Neo-Platanists, and he realized that their new understanding could be perfectly summed up by the opening of John's Gospel.
Me too! I was reading Matthew, Mark and Luke and was thinking, this is instruction. And then when I got to John he says, Jesus is the Word made flesh. And I was like, yes!
@@jamieg2427 The existence of the Logos (as fate, tao, oversoul, etc.) was already convincing enough, and is necessary to stoic philosophy. Of course I've had other personal experiences, but that really just clicked. Simple as that.
@@bograham6221 1. what made you believe logos exists in the first place? 2. it's then very important to ask, "what is logos as you understand it?" because i think this video gave both of us very different takes in logos. 3. what role do you think anecdote should have in truth formation? i started to write my own answers to the above questions, but i'm trying to focus on other people's opinions more these days.
It's funny how people these days tend to think that only just recently, suddenly, we got smart and society stopped "sucking". That's just blatantly not true, and in fact, one could argue we got worse. Technology and "ease of access" to information does not make the world inherently better, and it certainly doesn't do much for society.
"unexpected things happen so that they can be dealt with in the glory of God" what a beautifully put sentence, genuinely gave me goosebumps great video will rewatch again I'm sure of it
I've heard people say "ok, but how can you believe in a PERSONAL God". That's exactly why Christianity makes the most sense to me because we don't view God as an impersonal force or vague "consciousness". Essences, universals, divine exemplars, the "Logoi" which are the energies of the "Logos" are ideas in the mind of a personal God named Jesus Christ.
What a superb surprise! LARBS + great theological/philosophical discussion. Luke, your theology is spot on. So rare outside of local church these days to hear reminder of victory from sin and glorifying God as the whole point to it all. I'd just offer the following for additional discussion: ..."the Word was God.(2) He was with God in the beginning. Jesus is the Word - the fullfillment and all that it entails. I What the Bible specifically says regarding Stoics - Acts 17:18-28 (Context is Paul at the Aeropagus and proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ to those who were Epicurean, Stoics, etc.). The takeaway is certainly that worship of false idols and interest in new theological discussions (just for the sake of hearing something new and interesting) may be "religious" in nature - but not ultimately beneficial -- apart from God. Also, regarding the dog drug by cart metaphor. This is a great point to bring out that I never thought about till now. I think some of that philosophy has crept into modern Christian thinking from the standpoint of prosperity. In essence, "being a Christian will make your life so much better and easier". Certainly not a true statement, nor should it be but I see that expectation all over the place. Back on point. Being drug by a cart is not desired and possibly due to our own sinful choices (vice) but it could just be a result or God's will. I think you made that point regarding the blind beggar -- but just thinking of some of the pagan thought creep into "modern Christianity". I could go on but it's TH-cam comments so ... Great video sir!
I really enjoy studying what is called soteriology in Christan doctrine; one of the lesser known views known as Molinism, essentially it is: God takes account of what a human would freely choose and uses their will as a part of his plan for the world. I think It's a cool idea to study and fits well with what you were talking about. Enjoy the video :)
If you believe humans have free will, you don't hold the same view as Stoic philosophy or the New Testament. The allegory regarding the dog tied to a cart does not illustrate free will, but limited choice. The path of our life is mostly determined by forces outside of our control, and we can choose to follow or resist. Jesus likens our lack of choice in salvation to our lack of choice in birth in the beginning of John 3, and Paul tells the believers at Ephesus that they were predestined to salvation and "conformity to His will" in Ephesians 1. These are just 2 examples of what appears many times in every New Testament book: when it comes to salvation, we have no say. Therefore, we do not have free will, but limited choice.
@@kelyncrandall7452 Free will is what 99% of people regard as limited choice, I don't think anyone is under the pretense that we can will everything in life.
Came because I couldn't figure out how to configure the suckless software. Now staying for the spiritual enlightenment. Good stuff luke, this is quickly becoming one of my favorite channels, especially as I go through your old videos.
Personal story: I’m 37 year old American (for context) and got caught up in the New Atheist movement of the mid 2000’s and lost my faith then. At the time, I associated Christianity with the stupidity of the Neocon boomer evangelicals and learned to hate Christianity and I became somewhat of a shitlib as a result. It’s so refreshing to see the rise of this older more traditional Christianity that stands for something real and not just giving cash to Israel. Even though I’m still technically an atheist, I have really begun to respect Christianity as I get older.
what majority people get is watered down metaphysics, and they are presented with religion that has been corrupted in so many ways, it's no wonder people are atheists (lazy agnostics)
36yo kraut boomer here. Got evangelized/baptized in 2000. And just been through what you said about neocons + evangelicals. Can relate to your story. Also I went pretty "hard core"/orthodox/baptist and in my view I was shocked to see false teachers everywhere. Hillsong? More like Hellsong. Just one example. I couldn't find dirt on C.H Spurgeon though. But all TV evangelists, prosperity gospel teachers, and even in good congregations the "workshop"ization of faith. And every "modern" BS hype from the US. (while we have our very own problems and own demons.) And sorry I hate contemporary Christian music with a passion. Also think about the music industry is even more evil than Hollywood. And that's something... >"We" should never forget that we are hated by the world and should not do business with the world. (Not in a way like "repairing the world", like in Judaism). This world is f****cked beyond repair. And yet we praise God by doing something good(tm) with the time given to us. By living a good life by His laws and so on (e.g. getting married, having kids...) Btw I like this "dialectic" in Christianity, there is always hope for a 'katechon' (see Political Theology by Carl Schmitt) delaying the anti-Christ, the ultimate end (times), so we fight against this world becoming more crazy and more evil by the day WHILE knowing that it is a battle we cannot (and should not) win. And at the same time we wish and hope for our Lord Jesus Christ to fix this world (from outside), after the end times. Christ defeated death. Everything is won. (for us) While everything is lost (for this world). My grandpa called death "the last/final enemy". Having to go through the process of dying (and it's ramifications like very limited life time, which creates debt btw. Debt in capitalism is just the redistribution of debt t *by* the Original sin.)... Where was I? Having to go through the process of dying is the only thing where God's adversary has any hold/grip on us. As you can imagine I'm struggling to find a church/congregation. But I have my prejudices and maybe false pride. But boy, I believe it maybe is even more difficult in the US. Still I'm always amazed how I feel guided through the Holy Spirit. It's an essential piece, becoming born again, receiving the Holy Spirit. And I'm absolutely not into Charismatic or Pentecostal, I think those movements are hijacked (kundalini spirit). Essential finding 2-3 like minded friends and/or believers is enough. Read the word. Pray together. "And you will know the truth and the truth will set you free." (John 8:32)
Markas Michmel wdym, agnostic is just an additive description to which type of theist/atheist you are. Most atheists are agnostic atheists, and most theists are gnostic theists. It's rare to hear of an agnostic theist or a gnostic atheist.
American brand of Christianity is pretty much what you described there televangelists that say that Israel is god's chosen people and other moronic stupidities, and no proper study of the philosophical undertones of what is written in the book, or context upon which you can build upon.
I think as a fellow atheist, it;s not that christianity has changed, but you grew older and "wiser" and dont think anymore as someone who recently lost his faith. As far as i know, everyone who loses his religion is bitter about it. They usually though will get over that bitterness and start respecting that other people can live differently than them andd usually CHOOSE to believe because it helps them in some way.
Student of Eastern Christian Theology student + Cybernetics Engineer here! my OS -> minix3 (all right yes... virtualised in my fedora, although I am moving towards my own OS); my text/programming editor -> vim. prefered text editor for essays -> vim + latex. Some Christianised esoticism: When facing adversity, we could try to face it as the Logos faced the cross, by "suffering impassibly" (St Cyril of Alexandria); because when we loose, we gain (Philippians 3:7-10 NRSV) Mind blowing!
The relationships between Stoicism and Epicurean teachings and Early Christianity is remarkable. We have reduced Christianity to a simplistic salvation formula and the deeper Logos philosophy of life has been lost. Who now would look to Christianity for a deeper understanding of reality. The Church has lost the Logos and modern Christianity is dominated be versions of the Prosperity Gospel. It’s so very tragic and the older teachings need to be recovered.
Thanks. Understanding the concept of the Logos as applied to Jesus was conducive to expanding my faith. It is a wonderful way to consider or meditate upon the meaning of the Incarnation of Jesus ( the embodied Logos) when studying his parables about the Kingdom of God. It is a productive format for meditation
Wow this is some quality content. I truly appreciate this video. Anything that will allow other people to know the Truth is good in my eyes! Thanks Luke. I knew you were a good guy when I started watching your videos.
Loved listening to this. I’ve been following stoicism just casually for a few years since I discovered a Meditations (an incredible book, it was logos that it wasn’t destroyed). It has only been recently when I began to see connections between this and Christianity. If you strip it down to its bare basics you can see a lot of links between the two if not the same concept or foundations, which holy book would you say is closest to the foundational logos and cosmos view?
On a related note the Celtics converted quicker than most other groups, They had a very sacrifice based religion and when they heard about Christ's sacrifice on the cross it was almost they said "oh its all over now"
Yes, also the Celtic religion already had strong understanding of the concept of Trinity, hence why all the common Celtic symbols have three in one as the central design element.
@@KPenceable Are you a Celtic historian, or have you at least studied the Celtic religion and history? I am Irish, so I study it sometimes in my free time. Did you know that the Druids (the priestly class in Celtic society) were actually critical in the conversion of Celts to Christianity? Indeed, they were some of the first among the Celts to convert, understanding Christianity as the fulfillment of their religion. Indeed, it was they who went on to become the first priests and bishops of Britain. Compare this to the resistance of other groups to Christianity, for example the Romans, who persecuted and attempted to crush it with all their being, as it was seen as a threat by many Roman Emperors.
Thanks Uncle Luke!! I wasn't aware of the relation between cosmos and logos in Stoic philosophy. Saint John can be confusing -- God loves the cosmos, but we are forbidden from loving the cosmos (probably in First John somewhere).
I knew dude about these stuff. I acknowledged my myself as an orthodox christian, just because it had stoic sense to it. Then I've met stoic philosophy and couldn't find much difference, but stoicism is much more minimalistic! Nietzsche was a stoic, and had great influence on most of dictators about existential topic. So I was always distant to philosophy of nihilism as such, and I considered myself like pessimist(in physical form) and opportunist(in spiritual form, like eager for spiritual abbundance) so I discovered philosophy of absurdism (Alber Camus had most influence on my standpoint).
So happy to have found your channel. Great wisdom. Starting from a similar place and want to be able to unshackle for freedom, good luck with the plan and excited to follow along with your channel.👍
I gotta say, as someone who's read Marcus Aurelius, I found this a lot more enlightening than I expected. I'm an agnostic atheist so I don't buy into any of the Bible's supernatural claims but this video did give me a new appreciation of Christian philosophy.
That did so much to help me understand my faith better. why can't the church ever make church history so accessible? moving from rules to doing i guess is the synopsis. sure puts luther's grace by faith alone into question.
Thanks for this video. I really like what you said about "the victory being a victory against sin, which happens in individuals". Hearing that was necessary for me.
Hello Luke. This episode came to me at a really excellent time. I also listen to Bronze Age Perverts podcast and he did an episode similar to this speaking on Gnosticism. To keep it brief, I've been trying to find the right cosmology for myself for some time now, bouncing from a more Christian approach, to denouncing Christianity and Abrahamism and now I am looking again and Christianity with a more open mindset. As you mentioned in the video there are some who view those religions as usurpers of Europe. I too was in that camp but now I am finding that perhaps what I need most is to come back to what my ancestors have done for so long. I really enjoyed this episode, it is prompting me to do some research.
Wonderful talk. I don't think the stoics believed the world was "going somewhere" as if it had a per ordained path or was following a plan. It was more that the world has a method of operating that is unchangeable.
Think about it. Everything is cause and effect. The universe certainly is heading to a preordained point. Free will is an illusion, so we can't deviate from this path at all. How could it not be predetermined?
Great treatise! Although I'm an atheist I greatly appreciate traditional wisdom and a metaphysical approach to things. That's why I have steered clear of materialist modern atheists.
it's weird. I agree that the perversion of words from it's original meaning can lead to sin: bad grammar is sinful. As a bilingual of English and Spanish, I'm afforded the luxury to know two languages; I noticed that, I think different when it comes to speaking one language to the other and vice versa: In English I'm more able to do technical stuff involving the cellphone or filling out a bank account application for example; In Spanish, for me is more of a socializing language. Spanish for me is ecclesiastical language for me as well, since, I was raised to do my prayers and attend mass in spanish. In English, I feel I don't bond well with the Lord. I go out of my way to speak Spanish to God, since I grew up attending in it(mass). Of course growing up bilingual, I had trouble communicating and expressing myself since, I'm neither good in speaking either language. I felt alone, I hated it. I hated innuendos, they make me heave. It does not mean I don't say them, but, food is food. I should not have to feel disgust in enjoying food. All things have a time and a place. I guess, I hate the lack of respect.
I am coming back to this video years later and I finally understand it! Jonathan Pageu on youtube does a really good job of introducing you to these ideas through Maximus the Confessor.
Mr. Smith, thank you for this explanation/exposition - I've never heard these concepts presented in this way. It has always been either Hard Western Protestant Christian or Hard Atheistic Mocking. Interesting to realize no, no protestant churches are talking about these things when they discuss the "times of Jesus". I know what you meant when you said "telos" means goal, and I saw someone tried to clarify that. I think "goal" is sufficient for your point. I learned "telos" or "teleos" in Rhetoric and then was surprised to find it in Matthew's gospel translated "perfect". I think of it like Matthew kelly: "the best version of yourself". Thanks again, I'll be perusing your other videos/talks.
λόγος and τέλος, still exist in modern Greek and are being used frequently. Τέλος is used more often with the meaning of "end" (even in movie endings) or "tax". Modern greek pronunciation is like loh-wos (with w like in WHat) and teh-los (with teh like in TErritory). Idk about the "erasmian" pronunciation in ancient Greek, though.
Are you some Stoic warrior and intellect or do you just like researching these things? Can I count on you during hard times and in battle or will you run?
Τελος means end but this is the meaning that it mostly has in modern greek in ancient greek if you used the word ΤΕΛΟΣ(τέλος) it could be translated as "end" without loosing too much of its meaning but there was more to that word, it meant completeness e.g hence the word τελειότητα (means perfection) which has as a root word the word τελος so to be complete means to be perfect. By that you can think of τέλος being related to the word integrity in english if you are integerous it means that "no piece" of you is missing you are complete you do not need anything because you are now finalized (final meaning also end and it is not a coincidence I think). Κόσμος exactly doesnt mean people it means world but under the context of its population, all humans on planet earth are planet earth's ΚΟΣΜΟΣ. It can refere to "smaller" ΚΟΣΜΟΙ (kosme) most frequently as a metaphor e.g the roman κόσμος as in "the world of romans" or all the people that make up the romans, people as word is just more than one human so it is not exactly the same.
@lukesmith Wow, most excellent explanation of Logos and the history behind it. I can see by scrolling through the comments that you draw some intellectuals, so for this reason I am grateful to have found you. I have been studying logos for a couple years now, the concept was introduced to me by E. Michael Jones who wrote: “Logos Rising”: A history of ultimate reality. What I have struggled with since understanding the word logos, and it seems you are touching on it, is the idea that Logos IS God as many translations of John 1 state. I have learned this is a foundational principle in Triune God and Oneness doctrine. I think to interpret “and the Word WAS God” as “and the Word IS God” requires a presupposition that I have grown less and less comfortable with. I don’t think “the Word IS God” is True based on the definition of what Logos is. Here is my rational. You mentioned in this video that Logos can be defined as “The rational order behind the universe.” My current working definition of logos is “The collective thought of God.” God, however, in my knowledge of God, is not a principle, order, rational, or collective thought. He is, in my understanding, The Creator, The Source, The Originator of principles, order, rational, thought and even the Universe itself. This distinction between the rational order of the Universe and the Creator of the rational order of the Universe -and the Universe itself - seems to not equate to “Logos IS God.” Perhaps, as you so clearly articulated, the Stoic would recognize “the logos IS God” as ultimate reality but not the “Christian(for lack of a better term). Logos IS God is in conflict with this idea of God as the rational order behind the Universe. So is the Logos God? If Jesus IS Logos and Logos IS God than principles, rational, order and logic, are God. If Kosmos and Logos are inextricably linked, as you stated, then there is no separation between the way of the world and the way of God. If Logos IS God then there is no Creator, Source or Originator but only rational order. If God=Logos then God=rational order and Christian =Stoic. It all implies that there is no God but only rational order. Do Christians worship the Order or do we worship God the Creator? Is “and the Word was God” a mistranslation as I suspect? Would love to hear your thoughts on this. Grace and Peace be with you.
The real pill is that the Old Testament is a historically accurate document. Christianity can't be an interloper, if Christ has always been with humanity. What's eternally true is, in fact, actually eternally true.
The Ancient Egyptians literally have it in their mythology and belief system that if you want to truly destroy someone, you wipe out the memory of them. This calls their ability to record historical events they'd rather forget into question.
Since Jesus is God, and is identified as the Angel of the Lord of the Old Testament by Orthodox sources, and Christ himself claims to be so, then we can only conclude that Christ himself dictated what happened in the past to Moses, who was a prophet of the past. Jesus is *the* most trustworthy source, because He is Truth himself.
@Zu I'm just not interested in hearing hypothetical histories. I go with what's certain and divinely revealed. There's too many disagreeing secular historians that just make things up to justify what they want to be true. I go with the tradition of the Orthodox Church that has retained the same truth since the beginning of time, and whose Saints have lived the same holy life that the Apostles lived.
If you're interested in learning about some of the more recent Saints, with recent accounts of their sanctity, holiness, and miracles, look up: St Paisios the Athonite St Porphyrios St Seraphim of Sarov St John Maximovitch the wonder-worker Blessed Xenia of St Petersburg All the Saints who are united to the truth in their very being believe the same thing, that the Old Testament is divinely revealed and historically accurate There is no greater corroboration of what the truth is than between people for who the laws of their flawed and fallen nature were no longer a burden . :) God bless you on your search for truth
@Zu I never said that Merenptah didn't exist, what I question is your hypothetical reconstruction of what you think happened in the past. That's why I appeal to the Saints, who get direct revalation from God as to what is true or not. Two thousand years of Saints living the same kind of miraculous lives of sanctity that Christ promised to us is pretty good historical evidence if you want to look into it :)
The 'Stoic Ideal' sounds very similar to a description of Vulcans in Star Trek ... showing emotion is discouraged, calling something 'logical' is pretty much the ultimate compliment from a Vulcan...
@@markm2092 eh i’d argue it’s kind of a quasi-stoicism more than anything, i grew up under one of the more stoic doctrines and i can tell you from experience that most christians just have faith to perpetuate their own faith, and care nothing for the human condition which is what defines true morality the quickest
@@than9025 That stems from the belief that the glory of God is worth more than the human condition morally. The reasoning is that the human condition comes secondary to God, anyone who places it above God is acting immorally.
Luke, my dude. You just re-affirmed my faith an principles for me. It is weird since, I have watched the execution of King Charles the first short-documentary, and the conviction and condemnation to death of an inocente prisoner, from Los Angeles; The point I took from all this is, the behavior of the individual is important and to take it with stride. There are things outside of our control and our actions affect everything around us.
Any distro that doesn't have bloat like prosperity theology and overly mystic doctrine should be fine! Would not recommend installing anything that Bethel Church or Richard Rohr has released, full of malware...
this has more plot holds than a block of Swiss cheese. taking knowledge from many different sources is the only way we can paint the full picture (including Christianity), in fact i did this myself for 14 years and only then did i find what i was looking for. thats usually too long or hard for most people (understandably) so they look for the easy solution and call it a day, theres nothing wrong with that at all, just dont go around thinking your smarter than everyone without at least attempting to painting the full picture
>dont go around thinking your smarter than everyone without at least attempting to painting the full picture Elaborate. Your comment seemed to do just that.
@@crusaderACR yeah i probably should have specified, but by no means am i smarter than everyone around me. i would consider myself (from my point of view) to be objectively smarter than those who do not seek information (as you would expect), however i still learn new things every day meaning there is still things i dont yet know. in other words, i know that i dont know, which i personally see as "smarter".
After listening to this (and I know I'll be back to listen again), I have to say I really appreciate the look at these similarities. People can tend to write Christianity off for various reasons, and while I don't think any reasons for writing it off are necessarily valid, I think it's important to study what one believes and what is being espoused, down to the very core, and comparisons like these show that people who are called Christians don't necessarily believe anything super radically different in terms of living life, just in terms of what should be done in life, and why (generally speaking, anyway). My one big note here is that you don't seem to go into any of the Jewish connections. The New Testament, people forget, was written by Jews in a Jewish context (primarily), not by Greco-Romans in a timely, worldly context (though yes, as it could be pointed out, the Roman empire existed and was technically ruling the lands. Technically. Ever wonder why they didn't like the Jews? The Jews didn't worship their gods of live by their customs. Different cultures overlapping, not the same as being the same culture, and certainly they didn't believe the same things). While these comparisons are helpful and interesting, and they certainly can add *a* meaning to the text, I don't know that they're necessarily the meaning the author(s) of these various texts intended, specifically regarding the Gospel of John. In any case, that's my main thought. Sort of makes this video interesting, but maybe not necessarily accurate to what the books of the New Testament were actually intended to be by the respective authors. Side note- I don't think I've really commented on any of your videos, but I really love this channel and appreciate what you do. Been watching for several months now. Thank you for doing what you do, Mr. Smith.
It is more complex than that, friend. You seem to imply the Bible wasn't European, but purely Jewish. Jewish culture was barely its own thing back then. King David and King Solomon were distant memories and Hebrew was dying as a language. Jewish culture was very connected to that of mainland Europe. In many areas, it was barely a culture at all. Roman culture wasn't big, yes, but Greek (or Aramean, or Armenian, etc.) culture was ubiquitous for Jews both in and out of Judaea and Samaria. Paul of Tarsus himself was a Roman citizen and his first language was Greek. The Twelve got Aramean as a first tongue. Now google Tarsus, it isn't even near Palaestina. Paul was Greco-Jewish, not plain Jewish. The Bible itself was not even written in Aramean, or Hebrew (which, as I said, was dying), but in Greek. Goes to show how connected the Apostles were to Hebrew or even their regional mother tongues like Aramean. This is very quite like today with New Yorker Jews. They got their own family trees and meetings but Judaism as a culture was by then more of a subculture. Even synagogues openly preached Greek theology. It is like some New Yorker Ashkenazi with family there since the Revolutionary War to write a book on theology filled with quotes from Protestant pastors in plain English and say there was no Anglo-Saxon Protestant influence. Like, seriously? There was barely anything to "overlap". I can dare say the New Testament, especially the Gospel of John and Paul's epistles, was more European minded than Jewish.
What's interesting about Christianity is that it has a singular creator, but it has divine beings that are above us. It proposes that God is the center and that the angels that rebelled attempted to claim their own names as "gods". Hence why so many cultures have similar imagery for their deities.
10:03 "3. Language maps isomorphically to reality, so to study languages is to study reality. However as time passes, and humans degenerate, the relationship between language and reality becomes increasingly distant." Well, I'm sure some people will argue that reality is "problematic", anyway.
Did you ever listen to biblical series of Jordan Peterson, I think you might like them? It does feel like some order of which we are unaware really exist, and the reason why we can't really understand is very similar to bacteria that exist and lives inside of your stomach or anywhere else on your body. They do behave in a certain way without really knowing what your intentions are, but their way of life may result in the death of the whole colony as well as the body of yours, or in the prosperity of both, depending on the path they choose.
Not only does The Word have stoic connections, but it also comes from the Old Testament. Who spoke to Samuel? The Word of God. "The LORD continued to appear at Shiloh, and there he revealed himself to Samuel through *his word.*" 1 Samuel 3:21. God reveals himself to us through Christ, the Word. And this Word has existed since the beginning, with God, and is itself God. John 1:1 When you read the Old Testament with a true understanding of The Word, you'll be awestruck.
This verse is what converted me. I began to really believe in the Logos, and then I realized that John says "that's what God is, dude."
In St. Augustine's Confessions, he describes his exact same conversion. He was reading the latest and greatest philosophy of the Neo-Platanists, and he realized that their new understanding could be perfectly summed up by the opening of John's Gospel.
Me too! I was reading Matthew, Mark and Luke and was thinking, this is instruction. And then when I got to John he says, Jesus is the Word made flesh. And I was like, yes!
i'm curious how/why that converted you. honest question.
@@jamieg2427 The existence of the Logos (as fate, tao, oversoul, etc.) was already convincing enough, and is necessary to stoic philosophy. Of course I've had other personal experiences, but that really just clicked. Simple as that.
@@bograham6221
1. what made you believe logos exists in the first place?
2. it's then very important to ask, "what is logos as you understand it?" because i think this video gave both of us very different takes in logos.
3. what role do you think anecdote should have in truth formation?
i started to write my own answers to the above questions, but i'm trying to focus on other people's opinions more these days.
Alright, you've convinced me. I'll finally install arch for God's sake.
*atrtix now
Install Pony OS because of your nom de plume
@@DawsonFord why artix over arch? Just curious.
@@mathisblair2798 systemd was the reason. I use macos so I can't be based anymore.
Temple OS.
It's even written in Holy C
Came for Linux and open-source, stayed for Christian lore
same
😂 yuuup
Amen brother
The holy pill is strong in this one
take the god pill
Better than red, black, blue etc
we must spread the God pill
Christians don't take pills, they drink cool aid.
@@kooolainebulger8117 Hang on, I gotta hop on my boat with a million different animals with no food to feed them for a year first.
You just conveyed a year of philosophy, latin, history and religion in 40 minutes. One of a kind video. Thank you
Thank you for representing the message of Christianity properly. Most people construct a caricature they can attack. You were simply educational.
It's funny how people these days tend to think that only just recently, suddenly, we got smart and society stopped "sucking". That's just blatantly not true, and in fact, one could argue we got worse. Technology and "ease of access" to information does not make the world inherently better, and it certainly doesn't do much for society.
38 minutes and 57 seconds were well spent.
Never expected to learn that much in one video on TH-cam
"unexpected things happen so that they can be dealt with in the glory of God" what a beautifully put sentence, genuinely gave me goosebumps
great video will rewatch again I'm sure of it
Underrated channel.
I've heard people say "ok, but how can you believe in a PERSONAL God". That's exactly why Christianity makes the most sense to me because we don't view God as an impersonal force or vague "consciousness". Essences, universals, divine exemplars, the "Logoi" which are the energies of the "Logos" are ideas in the mind of a personal God named Jesus Christ.
ذَٰلِكُم بِأَنَّهُۥٓ إِذَا دُعِىَ ٱللَّهُ وَحْدَهُۥ كَفَرْتُمْ ۖ وَإِن يُشْرَكْ بِهِۦ تُؤْمِنُواْ ۚ فَٱلْحُكْمُ لِلَّهِ ٱلْعَلِىِّ ٱلْكَبِيرِ
I don't see how that is different from certain religions
@@miguelatkinson Faith saves, not works.
@@kaxerrr when did I mention anything about works or faith and also there are some Christians who might disagree with you on that one
@@miguelatkinson So? Other religions are works based when it comes to their interpretations of salvation and enlightenment.
What a superb surprise! LARBS + great theological/philosophical discussion. Luke, your theology is spot on. So rare outside of local church these days to hear reminder of victory from sin and glorifying God as the whole point to it all. I'd just offer the following for additional discussion:
..."the Word was God.(2) He was with God in the beginning. Jesus is the Word - the fullfillment and all that it entails. I
What the Bible specifically says regarding Stoics - Acts 17:18-28 (Context is Paul at the Aeropagus and proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ to those who were Epicurean, Stoics, etc.). The takeaway is certainly that worship of false idols and interest in new theological discussions (just for the sake of hearing something new and interesting) may be "religious" in nature - but not ultimately beneficial -- apart from God.
Also, regarding the dog drug by cart metaphor. This is a great point to bring out that I never thought about till now. I think some of that philosophy has crept into modern Christian thinking from the standpoint of prosperity. In essence, "being a Christian will make your life so much better and easier". Certainly not a true statement, nor should it be but I see that expectation all over the place. Back on point. Being drug by a cart is not desired and possibly due to our own sinful choices (vice) but it could just be a result or God's will. I think you made that point regarding the blind beggar -- but just thinking of some of the pagan thought creep into "modern Christianity".
I could go on but it's TH-cam comments so ...
Great video sir!
I really enjoy studying what is called soteriology in Christan doctrine; one of the lesser known views known as Molinism, essentially it is: God takes account of what a human would freely choose and uses their will as a part of his plan for the world. I think It's a cool idea to study and fits well with what you were talking about. Enjoy the video :)
Yes I too believe in free will and His plan cooperating together.
We're the Moriarty to His Sherlock. We can do whatever we want, but in the end, He's too smart for us.
If you believe humans have free will, you don't hold the same view as Stoic philosophy or the New Testament.
The allegory regarding the dog tied to a cart does not illustrate free will, but limited choice. The path of our life is mostly determined by forces outside of our control, and we can choose to follow or resist.
Jesus likens our lack of choice in salvation to our lack of choice in birth in the beginning of John 3, and Paul tells the believers at Ephesus that they were predestined to salvation and "conformity to His will" in Ephesians 1. These are just 2 examples of what appears many times in every New Testament book: when it comes to salvation, we have no say. Therefore, we do not have free will, but limited choice.
E
@@kelyncrandall7452
Free will is what 99% of people regard as limited choice, I don't think anyone is under the pretense that we can will everything in life.
Came because I couldn't figure out how to configure the suckless software. Now staying for the spiritual enlightenment. Good stuff luke, this is quickly becoming one of my favorite channels, especially as I go through your old videos.
This video is spot-on. I have been studying stoicism for a while at university and really have to commend your explanation and portrayal of it.
this is more impactful than anything that has ever come out of the lips of my zoomer youth pastor. Big ups, Luke.
Personal story: I’m 37 year old American (for context) and got caught up in the New Atheist movement of the mid 2000’s and lost my faith then. At the time, I associated Christianity with the stupidity of the Neocon boomer evangelicals and learned to hate Christianity and I became somewhat of a shitlib as a result. It’s so refreshing to see the rise of this older more traditional Christianity that stands for something real and not just giving cash to Israel. Even though I’m still technically an atheist, I have really begun to respect Christianity as I get older.
what majority people get is watered down metaphysics, and they are presented with religion that has been corrupted in so many ways, it's no wonder people are atheists (lazy agnostics)
36yo kraut boomer here. Got evangelized/baptized in 2000. And just been through what you said about neocons + evangelicals. Can relate to your story. Also I went pretty "hard core"/orthodox/baptist and in my view I was shocked to see false teachers everywhere. Hillsong? More like Hellsong. Just one example. I couldn't find dirt on C.H Spurgeon though. But all TV evangelists, prosperity gospel teachers, and even in good congregations the "workshop"ization of faith. And every "modern" BS hype from the US. (while we have our very own problems and own demons.)
And sorry I hate contemporary Christian music with a passion. Also think about the music industry is even more evil than Hollywood. And that's something... >"We" should never forget that we are hated by the world and should not do business with the world. (Not in a way like "repairing the world", like in Judaism). This world is f****cked beyond repair. And yet we praise God by doing something good(tm) with the time given to us. By living a good life by His laws and so on (e.g. getting married, having kids...)
Btw I like this "dialectic" in Christianity, there is always hope for a 'katechon' (see Political Theology by Carl Schmitt) delaying the anti-Christ, the ultimate end (times), so we fight against this world becoming more crazy and more evil by the day WHILE knowing that it is a battle we cannot (and should not) win. And at the same time we wish and hope for our Lord Jesus Christ to fix this world (from outside), after the end times. Christ defeated death. Everything is won. (for us) While everything is lost (for this world).
My grandpa called death "the last/final enemy". Having to go through the process of dying (and it's ramifications like very limited life time, which creates debt btw. Debt in capitalism is just the redistribution of debt t
*by* the Original sin.)... Where was I? Having to go through the process of dying is the only thing where God's adversary has any hold/grip on us.
As you can imagine I'm struggling to find a church/congregation. But I have my prejudices and maybe false pride. But boy, I believe it maybe is even more difficult in the US.
Still I'm always amazed how I feel guided through the Holy Spirit. It's an essential piece, becoming born again, receiving the Holy Spirit. And I'm absolutely not into Charismatic or Pentecostal, I think those movements are hijacked (kundalini spirit). Essential finding 2-3 like minded friends and/or believers is enough. Read the word. Pray together.
"And you will know the truth and the truth will set you free."
(John 8:32)
Markas Michmel wdym, agnostic is just an additive description to which type of theist/atheist you are. Most atheists are agnostic atheists, and most theists are gnostic theists. It's rare to hear of an agnostic theist or a gnostic atheist.
American brand of Christianity is pretty much what you described there televangelists that say that Israel is god's chosen people and other moronic stupidities, and no proper study of the philosophical undertones of what is written in the book, or context upon which you can build upon.
I think as a fellow atheist, it;s not that christianity has changed, but you grew older and "wiser" and dont think anymore as someone who recently lost his faith. As far as i know, everyone who loses his religion is bitter about it. They usually though will get over that bitterness and start respecting that other people can live differently than them andd usually CHOOSE to believe because it helps them in some way.
Came for the free software, like most, but I’ve really been getting into your intellectual/philosophical/essay content. Really good stuff.
Student of Eastern Christian Theology student + Cybernetics Engineer here!
my OS -> minix3 (all right yes... virtualised in my fedora, although I am moving towards my own OS);
my text/programming editor -> vim.
prefered text editor for essays -> vim + latex.
Some Christianised esoticism: When facing adversity, we could try to face it as the Logos faced the cross, by "suffering impassibly" (St Cyril of Alexandria); because when we loose, we gain (Philippians 3:7-10 NRSV)
Mind blowing!
that image is epic
Thank you Luke for this interesting whirlwind tour of the philosophies that were part of the heritage of Christianity! It was very insightful.
Stoicism is older than Christianity.
@@joeschmoe3815 Keyword "heritage"
@@joeschmoe3815
So is writing and reading, use it.
@@rockytom5889 No! I will never own up to my illiteracy!
You will never catch me alive! *jumps out of window*
@@joeschmoe3815
This has the same energy as:
"History will remember you as a fool"
"WELL THAT DOESN'T MATTER, CAUSE I CAN'T READ!"
I've been looking for a concise explanation of logos for a while. Thanks Luke!
have been following for quite some time and very glad to hear the biblical talks
The relationships between Stoicism and Epicurean teachings and Early Christianity is remarkable. We have reduced Christianity to a simplistic salvation formula and the deeper Logos philosophy of life has been lost. Who now would look to Christianity for a deeper understanding of reality. The Church has lost the Logos and modern Christianity is dominated be versions of the Prosperity Gospel. It’s so very tragic and the older teachings need to be recovered.
Thanks. Understanding the concept of the Logos as applied to Jesus was conducive to expanding my faith. It is a wonderful way to consider or meditate upon the meaning of the Incarnation of Jesus ( the embodied Logos) when studying his parables about the Kingdom of God.
It is a productive format for meditation
Wow this is some quality content. I truly appreciate this video. Anything that will allow other people to know the Truth is good in my eyes! Thanks Luke. I knew you were a good guy when I started watching your videos.
This is some quality content; request for sources regarding stoic philosophy in it's non-popcultural form 🤠
Meditations by Marcus Aurelius is a good start.
Discourses and Enchiridion by Epictetus, Meditations by Marcus Aurelius, and Letters From a Stoic by Seneca are the most popular ones
Epictetus
Loved listening to this. I’ve been following stoicism just casually for a few years since I discovered a Meditations (an incredible book, it was logos that it wasn’t destroyed). It has only been recently when I began to see connections between this and Christianity. If you strip it down to its bare basics you can see a lot of links between the two if not the same concept or foundations, which holy book would you say is closest to the foundational logos and cosmos view?
The Enchiridion is even better. Way more streamlined.
You can find it free on the net.
I clapped because I know the Demiurgon from Netflix!!
* le sôy face *
(great video! thank you.)
okay now i will call anyone with bad spelling gay and the dude won't be able to disagree
You didn’t capitalize the “I” therefore, by your own logic you are gay.
@@waynewreck4355 oi wanker you wat? i only habe seks wid me bottle o rum!
@@arrtemfly now you’re super gay
Someone's been hanging out on /lit/ again. Soon he's going to start talking about Evola.
I always got the feeling that Luke was more /lit/ than he was ever /g/
Luke is Butterfly
guenon is the new litcore meme apparently.
Honestly, luke is much more entertaining than /lit/, its almost insulting to associate the two.
You are wrong if you think he is browsing imageboards zoomer
@@francisnorthwood7862 of course he doesnt currently, but that doesn't mean he doesn't embody the /lit/ spirit
I was learning linux from your channel and the contents are really good. But it is this video that gives me the reason to hit the subscribe button.
This video was absolutely amazing, thank you brother 🙏
2 videos in one day. I’ve been blessed
I'm a simple man , when I see a new episode of not related I just smash the like button
Ok, this is epic
I couldnt not think of anything else after this video...been avoiding it...thank you for your work in this video
That passage from John is read every time at the end of the Traditional Latin Mass
Wow, seems that they've kept to their roots or had a deeper understanding of the text
TLM gang!
We (the majority of the Roman Catholic Church) never should have left the TLM.
@@Christopher-ew7jw the Roman Catholic Church should have never left the patriarchy
@@neame-bh3uq I don't know what you meant with this. The Patriarchies (plural) are alive and well in Catholicism.
2:20 No, "logos," is not lost to time. It is the same word as logo, log, and logic: the symbolic representation of an abstraction (thought.)
On a related note the Celtics converted quicker than most other groups, They had a very sacrifice based religion and when they heard about Christ's sacrifice on the cross it was almost they said "oh its all over now"
Yes, also the Celtic religion already had strong understanding of the concept of Trinity, hence why all the common Celtic symbols have three in one as the central design element.
Wow sounds like totally well researched information
@@KPenceable Are you a Celtic historian, or have you at least studied the Celtic religion and history? I am Irish, so I study it sometimes in my free time.
Did you know that the Druids (the priestly class in Celtic society) were actually critical in the conversion of Celts to Christianity? Indeed, they were some of the first among the Celts to convert, understanding Christianity as the fulfillment of their religion. Indeed, it was they who went on to become the first priests and bishops of Britain.
Compare this to the resistance of other groups to Christianity, for example the Romans, who persecuted and attempted to crush it with all their being, as it was seen as a threat by many Roman Emperors.
@@Jupiter__001_ really interesting, thanks for your comment. Know any good books about the celts?
Thanks Uncle Luke!! I wasn't aware of the relation between cosmos and logos in Stoic philosophy. Saint John can be confusing -- God loves the cosmos, but we are forbidden from loving the cosmos (probably in First John somewhere).
I knew dude about these stuff. I acknowledged my myself as an orthodox christian, just because it had stoic sense to it. Then I've met stoic philosophy and couldn't find much difference, but stoicism is much more minimalistic! Nietzsche was a stoic, and had great influence on most of dictators about existential topic. So I was always distant to philosophy of nihilism as such, and I considered myself like pessimist(in physical form) and opportunist(in spiritual form, like eager for spiritual abbundance) so I discovered philosophy of absurdism (Alber Camus had most influence on my standpoint).
So happy to have found your channel. Great wisdom. Starting from a similar place and want to be able to unshackle for freedom, good luck with the plan and excited to follow along with your channel.👍
I gotta say, as someone who's read Marcus Aurelius, I found this a lot more enlightening than I expected. I'm an agnostic atheist so I don't buy into any of the Bible's supernatural claims but this video did give me a new appreciation of Christian philosophy.
That did so much to help me understand my faith better. why can't the church ever make church history so accessible? moving from rules to doing i guess is the synopsis. sure puts luther's grace by faith alone into question.
Thanks for this video. I really like what you said about "the victory being a victory against sin, which happens in individuals". Hearing that was necessary for me.
More like this. Excellent and necessary.
One of the most fascinating things in philosophy in my opinion is the amount of similarities between the concept of Logos and the concept of the Dao
Based and Christpilled.
@@folksurvival
Both
Волны смерти? Где ты получил ваш имея?
My bothers gather around and listen to the gospel of our apostle Luke 🙏
Hello Luke. This episode came to me at a really excellent time. I also listen to Bronze Age Perverts podcast and he did an episode similar to this speaking on Gnosticism. To keep it brief, I've been trying to find the right cosmology for myself for some time now, bouncing from a more Christian approach, to denouncing Christianity and Abrahamism and now I am looking again and Christianity with a more open mindset. As you mentioned in the video there are some who view those religions as usurpers of Europe. I too was in that camp but now I am finding that perhaps what I need most is to come back to what my ancestors have done for so long. I really enjoyed this episode, it is prompting me to do some research.
@@blindmechanism6555 Do you also cringe when you coom into a sock after your evening skyrim binge?
Now, two years later, have you come to any conclusions?
@@crusaderACR Yes, I've been baptized into the Orthodox Church :)
Wonderful talk. I don't think the stoics believed the world was "going somewhere" as if it had a per ordained path or was following a plan. It was more that the world has a method of operating that is unchangeable.
Think about it. Everything is cause and effect. The universe certainly is heading to a preordained point. Free will is an illusion, so we can't deviate from this path at all. How could it not be predetermined?
Well their focus what was in their control..so any considerations of the transcendental may have been only considered secondarily.
Very interesting presentation. I do appreciate the efforts that you have put into this for us! Thank you!
English translation of the Bible lost so much depth!
That and many other words in the English Bible.
Great treatise! Although I'm an atheist I greatly appreciate traditional wisdom and a metaphysical approach to things. That's why I have steered clear of materialist modern atheists.
The word is Jesus Christ. He can and will save you. Repent,accept and follow him to freedom. Free as in free and free as in salvation.
Cringe, I very much prefer the flying spaghetti monster, definitely the real god among all the gods/goddesses. Jesus can go suck a dingdong.
@@Luan-RTget out of here redditor
the logos is actually a pagan deity and was around hundreds of years before Jesus was born.
best episode of not related yet!
9:40 3 genuinely blew my mind.
So glad I found your channel! Stay safe...many good channels are getting banned these days
it's weird. I agree that the perversion of words from it's original meaning can lead to sin: bad grammar is sinful. As a bilingual of English and Spanish, I'm afforded the luxury to know two languages; I noticed that, I think different when it comes to speaking one language to the other and vice versa: In English I'm more able to do technical stuff involving the cellphone or filling out a bank account application for example; In Spanish, for me is more of a socializing language. Spanish for me is ecclesiastical language for me as well, since, I was raised to do my prayers and attend mass in spanish. In English, I feel I don't bond well with the Lord. I go out of my way to speak Spanish to God, since I grew up attending in it(mass). Of course growing up bilingual, I had trouble communicating and expressing myself since, I'm neither good in speaking either language. I felt alone, I hated it. I hated innuendos, they make me heave. It does not mean I don't say them, but, food is food. I should not have to feel disgust in enjoying food. All things have a time and a place. I guess, I hate the lack of respect.
I am coming back to this video years later and I finally understand it! Jonathan Pageu on youtube does a really good job of introducing you to these ideas through Maximus the Confessor.
Uhhh can you say based?
LOVE THIS
This is mind blowing big dawg
Well done!! I really enjoyed this. Watched 2x just to make sure I really got everything. Very nice.
Mr. Smith, thank you for this explanation/exposition - I've never heard these concepts presented in this way. It has always been either Hard Western Protestant Christian or Hard Atheistic Mocking. Interesting to realize no, no protestant churches are talking about these things when they discuss the "times of Jesus". I know what you meant when you said "telos" means goal, and I saw someone tried to clarify that. I think "goal" is sufficient for your point. I learned "telos" or "teleos" in Rhetoric and then was surprised to find it in Matthew's gospel translated "perfect". I think of it like Matthew kelly: "the best version of yourself". Thanks again, I'll be perusing your other videos/talks.
Best episode of Not Related imo
λόγος and τέλος, still exist in modern Greek and are being used frequently. Τέλος is used more often with the meaning of "end" (even in movie endings) or "tax". Modern greek pronunciation is like loh-wos (with w like in WHat) and teh-los (with teh like in TErritory). Idk about the "erasmian" pronunciation in ancient Greek, though.
Tech, Christianity *and* Stoicism?! I've never subscribed so quickly.
Are you some Stoic warrior and intellect or do you just like researching these things? Can I count on you during hard times and in battle or will you run?
May The Algorithm bless this video.
Τελος means end but this is the meaning that it mostly has in modern greek in ancient greek if you used the word ΤΕΛΟΣ(τέλος) it could be translated as "end" without loosing too much of its meaning but there was more to that word, it meant completeness e.g hence the word τελειότητα (means perfection) which has as a root word the word τελος so to be complete means to be perfect. By that you can think of τέλος being related to the word integrity in english if you are integerous it means that "no piece" of you is missing you are complete you do not need anything because you are now finalized (final meaning also end and it is not a coincidence I think).
Κόσμος exactly doesnt mean people it means world but under the context of its population, all humans on planet earth are planet earth's ΚΟΣΜΟΣ. It can refere to "smaller" ΚΟΣΜΟΙ (kosme) most frequently as a metaphor e.g the roman κόσμος as in "the world of romans" or all the people that make up the romans, people as word is just more than one human so it is not exactly the same.
love this show... please make it more often
@lukesmith
Wow, most excellent explanation of Logos and the history behind it. I can see by scrolling through the comments that you draw some intellectuals, so for this reason I am grateful to have found you.
I have been studying logos for a couple years now, the concept was introduced to me by E. Michael Jones who wrote: “Logos Rising”: A history of ultimate reality.
What I have struggled with since understanding the word logos, and it seems you are touching on it, is the idea that Logos IS God as many translations of John 1 state. I have learned this is a foundational principle in Triune God and Oneness doctrine. I think to interpret “and the Word WAS God” as “and the Word IS God” requires a presupposition that I have grown less and less comfortable with. I don’t think “the Word IS God” is True based on the definition of what Logos is.
Here is my rational.
You mentioned in this video that Logos can be defined as “The rational order behind the universe.” My current working definition of logos is “The collective thought of God.”
God, however, in my knowledge of God, is not a principle, order, rational, or collective thought. He is, in my understanding, The Creator, The Source, The Originator of principles, order, rational, thought and even the Universe itself. This distinction between the rational order of the Universe and the Creator of the rational order of the Universe -and the Universe itself - seems to not equate to “Logos IS God.”
Perhaps, as you so clearly articulated, the Stoic would recognize “the logos IS God” as ultimate reality but not the “Christian(for lack of a better term). Logos IS God is in conflict with this idea of God as the rational order behind the Universe.
So is the Logos God?
If Jesus IS Logos and Logos IS God than principles, rational, order and logic, are God. If Kosmos and Logos are inextricably linked, as you stated, then there is no separation between the way of the world and the way of God. If Logos IS God then there is no Creator, Source or Originator but only rational order. If God=Logos then God=rational order and Christian =Stoic.
It all implies that there is no God but only rational order.
Do Christians worship the Order or do we worship God the Creator?
Is “and the Word was God” a mistranslation as I suspect?
Would love to hear your thoughts on this.
Grace and Peace be with you.
I always enjoy your lectures.
listened to this 3 times now, thank you :)
The real pill is that the Old Testament is a historically accurate document.
Christianity can't be an interloper, if Christ has always been with humanity. What's eternally true is, in fact, actually eternally true.
The Ancient Egyptians literally have it in their mythology and belief system that if you want to truly destroy someone, you wipe out the memory of them.
This calls their ability to record historical events they'd rather forget into question.
Since Jesus is God, and is identified as the Angel of the Lord of the Old Testament by Orthodox sources, and Christ himself claims to be so, then we can only conclude that Christ himself dictated what happened in the past to Moses, who was a prophet of the past.
Jesus is *the* most trustworthy source, because He is Truth himself.
@Zu I'm just not interested in hearing hypothetical histories. I go with what's certain and divinely revealed. There's too many disagreeing secular historians that just make things up to justify what they want to be true.
I go with the tradition of the Orthodox Church that has retained the same truth since the beginning of time, and whose Saints have lived the same holy life that the Apostles lived.
If you're interested in learning about some of the more recent Saints, with recent accounts of their sanctity, holiness, and miracles, look up:
St Paisios the Athonite
St Porphyrios
St Seraphim of Sarov
St John Maximovitch the wonder-worker
Blessed Xenia of St Petersburg
All the Saints who are united to the truth in their very being believe the same thing, that the Old Testament is divinely revealed and historically accurate
There is no greater corroboration of what the truth is than between people for who the laws of their flawed and fallen nature were no longer a burden . :)
God bless you on your search for truth
@Zu I never said that Merenptah didn't exist, what I question is your hypothetical reconstruction of what you think happened in the past.
That's why I appeal to the Saints, who get direct revalation from God as to what is true or not.
Two thousand years of Saints living the same kind of miraculous lives of sanctity that Christ promised to us is pretty good historical evidence if you want to look into it :)
The 'word' is set of commands which rules the universe. SImilar to computer languages making system working in order.
The 'Stoic Ideal' sounds very similar to a description of Vulcans in Star Trek ... showing emotion is discouraged, calling something 'logical' is pretty much the ultimate compliment from a Vulcan...
Good parallel. In a way, a Vulcan is the ideal Christian.
I find the idea a bit funny for some reason.
I've tuned in for linux content for years, but this may be my favorite video yet. Any chance for a UGA meetup?
A stoic and a Christian eh? Nietzche would love to have a talk with you...
I don't think Nietzsche wanted to talk to anyone. Also he wasn't an apologist he more just laid out his beliefs rather than argued for them.
Have you read the Bible. Christianity = true stoicism
@Alan Crane He lived out his philosophies, that’s why his life was miserable
@@markm2092 eh i’d argue it’s kind of a quasi-stoicism more than anything, i grew up under one of the more stoic doctrines and i can tell you from experience that most christians just have faith to perpetuate their own faith, and care nothing for the human condition which is what defines true morality the quickest
@@than9025 That stems from the belief that the glory of God is worth more than the human condition morally. The reasoning is that the human condition comes secondary to God, anyone who places it above God is acting immorally.
He is before all things and in him all things hold together! Colossians 1:17
God bless you Luke
Luke, my dude. You just re-affirmed my faith an principles for me. It is weird since, I have watched the execution of King Charles the first short-documentary, and the conviction and condemnation to death of an inocente prisoner, from Los Angeles; The point I took from all this is, the behavior of the individual is important and to take it with stride. There are things outside of our control and our actions affect everything around us.
Wow! Thanks, Luke! ❤️
Please do more on the logos, even some book recommendations to find out more would be appreciated!
Hey Luke, I was wondering which Christianity distro is the best?
Any distro that doesn't have bloat like prosperity theology and overly mystic doctrine should be fine! Would not recommend installing anything that Bethel Church or Richard Rohr has released, full of malware...
Become Catholic
@@marcoconsorti2663 y
@@theyeking7023
Based and Biblepilled, boot it by Baptism
Christ is the core code to allow distros to exist! There is no best! There is only; you must submit to God humbly or no distro for you!
luke smith used arch so much they put him in the bible. truly a scholar of the ages.
Amazing stuff, thank you hope to hear more
Tarsus, Saint Paul's hometown, was a Stoic stronghold.
Check out this guy John Vervaeke for more detail on the development of Stoicism, Neoplatonism, Gnosticism and Christianity.
this has more plot holds than a block of Swiss cheese. taking knowledge from many different sources is the only way we can paint the full picture (including Christianity), in fact i did this myself for 14 years and only then did i find what i was looking for. thats usually too long or hard for most people (understandably) so they look for the easy solution and call it a day, theres nothing wrong with that at all, just dont go around thinking your smarter than everyone without at least attempting to painting the full picture
>dont go around thinking your smarter than everyone without at least attempting to painting the full picture
Elaborate. Your comment seemed to do just that.
@@crusaderACR yeah i probably should have specified, but by no means am i smarter than everyone around me. i would consider myself (from my point of view) to be objectively smarter than those who do not seek information (as you would expect), however i still learn new things every day meaning there is still things i dont yet know. in other words, i know that i dont know, which i personally see as "smarter".
After listening to this (and I know I'll be back to listen again), I have to say I really appreciate the look at these similarities. People can tend to write Christianity off for various reasons, and while I don't think any reasons for writing it off are necessarily valid, I think it's important to study what one believes and what is being espoused, down to the very core, and comparisons like these show that people who are called Christians don't necessarily believe anything super radically different in terms of living life, just in terms of what should be done in life, and why (generally speaking, anyway).
My one big note here is that you don't seem to go into any of the Jewish connections. The New Testament, people forget, was written by Jews in a Jewish context (primarily), not by Greco-Romans in a timely, worldly context (though yes, as it could be pointed out, the Roman empire existed and was technically ruling the lands. Technically. Ever wonder why they didn't like the Jews? The Jews didn't worship their gods of live by their customs. Different cultures overlapping, not the same as being the same culture, and certainly they didn't believe the same things). While these comparisons are helpful and interesting, and they certainly can add *a* meaning to the text, I don't know that they're necessarily the meaning the author(s) of these various texts intended, specifically regarding the Gospel of John. In any case, that's my main thought. Sort of makes this video interesting, but maybe not necessarily accurate to what the books of the New Testament were actually intended to be by the respective authors.
Side note- I don't think I've really commented on any of your videos, but I really love this channel and appreciate what you do. Been watching for several months now. Thank you for doing what you do, Mr. Smith.
It is more complex than that, friend. You seem to imply the Bible wasn't European, but purely Jewish.
Jewish culture was barely its own thing back then. King David and King Solomon were distant memories and Hebrew was dying as a language. Jewish culture was very connected to that of mainland Europe. In many areas, it was barely a culture at all. Roman culture wasn't big, yes, but Greek (or Aramean, or Armenian, etc.) culture was ubiquitous for Jews both in and out of Judaea and Samaria. Paul of Tarsus himself was a Roman citizen and his first language was Greek. The Twelve got Aramean as a first tongue. Now google Tarsus, it isn't even near Palaestina. Paul was Greco-Jewish, not plain Jewish.
The Bible itself was not even written in Aramean, or Hebrew (which, as I said, was dying), but in Greek. Goes to show how connected the Apostles were to Hebrew or even their regional mother tongues like Aramean.
This is very quite like today with New Yorker Jews. They got their own family trees and meetings but Judaism as a culture was by then more of a subculture. Even synagogues openly preached Greek theology.
It is like some New Yorker Ashkenazi with family there since the Revolutionary War to write a book on theology filled with quotes from Protestant pastors in plain English and say there was no Anglo-Saxon Protestant influence. Like, seriously? There was barely anything to "overlap". I can dare say the New Testament, especially the Gospel of John and Paul's epistles, was more European minded than Jewish.
What do you mean you think there are no valid reasons to write off Christianity like it's not like the religion is perfect.
What's interesting about Christianity is that it has a singular creator, but it has divine beings that are above us. It proposes that God is the center and that the angels that rebelled attempted to claim their own names as "gods". Hence why so many cultures have similar imagery for their deities.
Oh boy a luke Smith video, time to watch instantly
10:03 "3. Language maps isomorphically to reality, so to study languages is to study reality. However as time passes, and humans degenerate, the relationship between language and reality becomes increasingly distant."
Well, I'm sure some people will argue that reality is "problematic", anyway.
Did you ever listen to biblical series of Jordan Peterson, I think you might like them?
It does feel like some order of which we are unaware really exist, and the reason why we can't really understand is very similar to bacteria that exist and lives inside of your stomach or anywhere else on your body. They do behave in a certain way without really knowing what your intentions are, but their way of life may result in the death of the whole colony as well as the body of yours, or in the prosperity of both, depending on the path they choose.
>the meaning of the system lies outside the system
@@chrkrngl so true
Not only does The Word have stoic connections, but it also comes from the Old Testament. Who spoke to Samuel? The Word of God. "The LORD continued to appear at Shiloh, and there he revealed himself to Samuel through *his word.*" 1 Samuel 3:21. God reveals himself to us through Christ, the Word. And this Word has existed since the beginning, with God, and is itself God. John 1:1 When you read the Old Testament with a true understanding of The Word, you'll be awestruck.
If anyone searched: Speculative Grammar and Stoic Language Theory in Medieval Allegorical Narrative - Jeffrey Bardzell. pdf available on z-lib
"Uploaded 10 seconds ago" woah...
Doesn't get much earlier than this, still sitting at 360p
Thomas W and it has 54 visual already
@@pandorolo3167 Haha. Yeah when I saw it on my dashboard there were no views, not even the thumbnail had come through.