Watch This Before You Buy A CNC Router In 2023
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 พ.ค. 2024
- How much is a CNC machine for wood? What's the best CNC for Small Shops? If you're interested in getting a CNC machine, then this video is for you! It will save you SO, much time, money, and confusion. This way you can get to making cool cnc projects sooner and have more fun!
Links in the video:
Shapeoko - shop.carbide3d.com/andybirdbuilds
Vectric - www.vectric.com/
Dust Collector - www.harborfreight.com/2-hp-in...
Double-Sided Tape - Discontinued... Currently trying different options
Download my FREE guide and start using my EASY 4-step process to create your BEST-SELLING CNC projects today! www.andybirdbuilds.com/free-g...
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Don't know what machine to start with? This was my first CNC and I have zero regrets! shop.carbide3d.com/andybirdbuilds
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#cncrouter #desktopcnc #andybirdbuilds - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Great video Andy. I’m a year and a half into my cnc journey and you helped immensely when I began. I originally wanted a onefinity but the wait list was over 3 months so I went with the Shapeoko and have been very happy. Carbide create is not the best out there but it’s a good starting place, I used the free version for at least 9 months. It took about 5 months to actually break even and start making money with it and it was a very good decision. I agree that it’s a great place to start but you will eventually want to upgrade everything. At that point you’ll know what you want and where the shortcomings of your current system are.
Super useful video! Watched about a dozen so far, this is one of the best
Thanks Andy great honest video that many, including myself, aspiring beginner CNC machine users need. 👍
Thank you so much for this information. I have been wood working for about 12 years and I am mightily thinking of adding CNC to my repertoire. Your advice was very good. I will take a look at the Shapeoko machines.
I viewed several of this type of video and this one is by far the most practical and logical. The information density is high and the sourcing infomation is good. The thought and presentation here is as good as a professional trainer.
Shapeoko, is definitely a diy setup and maintenance machine. However, in my experience, the customer service is amazing. I asked about an issue I was having with my bit setter (months after purchasing) and they sent me a new sensor and wiring. I did have to fix it myself, but it wasn't too bad to change out.
Thanks for great video. Just getting into researching this as another revenue stream in our shop/store. Appreciate you. Keep up the good work.
Glad it was helpful!
Andy I bought the Shapoeko 5 Pro with the upgraded spindle. I bought it during the Black Friday deal. It's a great machine and so complete. Also your videos are so helpful in my learning journey
Congrats on the new machine!
The most reassuring video I've watched on CNC! Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Appreciate the advice. Looking for something different in the new year 🎉
This video was so great and just what I needed! Thank you!
So great to hear! 😀
Brilliant, informative video. Clear and to the point, could not be better.... Thanks.
I'm glad it was helpful!
Andy one thing I think you forgot to mention about holding, if you’re new and using screws making sure your tool path isn’t set to go over that screw. A quick way to break a bit. If your project is going to be 10 inches wide make sure your wood is bigger than your final project give yourself a few inches on each end to ensure your bits won’t make contact with the screws.
Solid advice Andy! Great videos as always. You helped with my learning curve tremendously and I have started to generate income on the side with my shapeoko 4XL. Thank you!
good machine
Hello Andy
I can relate to what your talking about having purchased a small cnc laser . so when i go to get a router will follow your advice
cheers Barry
Awesome video. Just what I was looking for.
Thank you because that was me Army there was nobody on TH-cam at the time when I bought it that really got into the facts like you just did and I appreciate that so I wasted my time and money on a cheap machine that basically I can do nothing with and here I am back at square one looking for a 3D laser printer engraver
This has been great information, thank you very much Andy. 👍👍
Great! I'm glad you found it helpful.
Nice overview. One thing you might want to add would be a quick discussion of stands. You need something to put your new router on - whether it's a clear bit of benchtop space or a dedicated table for larger machines. Especially for someone just starting out, some COTS solutions would be welcome.
Awesome video and great info‼️
Thanks for sharing
You bet
I started with a vevor 3018, added a 1/4 Hp hand router, used Easel to design and cut pieces, about to step up to large router bed. A large learning curve , but lots of fun, have made extra money.
Very informative. Well laid out content.
Glad you liked it!
Very informative. Earned a sub
This was very thorough. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for this. I'm trying to soak up as much as possible before making my purchase. I own two lasers and looking to add what they can't do.
Great breakdown! Lots of good info!
Glad it was helpful!
That why the reason, why I build my own DIY CNC Router, that can covered up all my need
This is a great overview what CNC router entails!
Adding to sofware, I was glad I already had Adobe Illustrator and knew how to use it, it's easy to import designs into vectrix/v-carve. Adding Fusion 360 to the mix is another steep learning curve but could be worth it. I started out with SolidWorks but the Fusion 360 build in CAM is much better (Solid works doesn't come with cam as standard, not sure if this is still the case though).
And for wanting to cut metal like aluminium and/or mild steel there are things you need to be aware of too, like cutting fluids, airblasts/misters etc. Air compressor is handy to have. Looking into single flute cutters is necessary if your spindel is of the high speed variety (7000-24000+ rpm). Or if you want to cut plastics such as acrylics a single flute cutter is very good too.
I like the 'creative' angle, but for those that focus on building a machine, I think the PrintNC is a good point to start, but there's little in the way of support. One of the more solid builds out there as all structural parts are steel tubes (no welding required). At the time I started out I bought an OpenBuilds CNC Ox (400x700x50mm build space) clone from Aliexpress, which uses delrin wheels for the moving parts and 2020 style extrusions, which isn't very stiff and wouldn't recommend it even though they are very cheap for their size. Even in wood dimensions weren't very accurate.
I managed to CNC a new and bigger CNC from 20mm thick aluminium plates and X, Y and Z axes ready made from aliexpress with ball screws and linear rails. New build space is 750x1500x200mm.
It's a bit of a rabbit hole but it was a lot of fun building these machines and learned a ton along the way.
Are you a teacher or were you ever? This is an absolutely well put together and well delivered presentation.
Thanks for that. I learnt a lot. It was an eye opener for me and I could sense the honesty.
Thank you for the information. I’m still mulling over if I should take the plunge. But your video helps
Glad it was helpful!
Awsome video. Anyone looking to get a CNC should watch this video. Very thorough. I purchased a CNC machine two years ago and have numerous small projects since, but wish I'd seen this video first, would have definitely helped with the learning curve.
Great to hear!
Instead of a laptop to feed code to the CNC machine, get a cube-style desktop computer like a Raspberry Pi or equivalent (many under $100) and that can be your CNC controller. Don't subject a $1,000 laptop to a dusty shop environment. You can likely scrounge an old desktop monitor, keyboard, and even a computer from a garage sale that will work after installing Linux on it for better speed.
Passive cooled for extra sauce.
I plan to have super long cords to the laptop wireless display and mouse and keyboard
Yeah, I use a raspberry pi (the one built into the keyboard) and it works great. I think the entire kit (keyboard, Pi, mouse, micro-sd, power supply) was $100. It’s attached to a 24in ASUS monitor.
You can get perfectly good old Dells or Hp desktop machines that are around 50-60usd that are more than capable of running LinuxCNC.
I use an old dell all in one (7440) that I got for £70 gbp. Works a treat.
Very informative video, great job!😀
Glad you enjoyed it!
I did laugh a little when the outro showed the Avid CNC running. Anyway, thanks for all the vids you do. They are great!
Thanks for watching until the end!
Great job thank you for your insight. We take the stuff we need and the stuff that doesn't apply you move on I thought you gave a really good introduction. So I have been doing woodworking for a while I own a cabinet business I have a lot of Fabricators that work with me and we're actually I'm getting ready to move into the CNC do you have a friend who is familiar with the software because he was a cabinet builder with CNC on a much larger scale so he's going to be helping me out to some extent but I find it to be very very complicated just all the different moving parts and things that need to happen so I'm really thankful for your video cuz I just kind of like figure out which direction I'm going to go. Have you heard of The Stylist CNC and do you think that the company JinaH is reputable I'm scared to death make a purchase overseas
Would there be an economical setup for cutting small shapes (less than 6") out of 3/8" and 1/2" sheets of HDPE?
Thanks for the video. I have been enjoying your content. I am a woodworker and currently make cutting boards & charcuterie boards as a small side business. I also have a 20W diode laser. I have been researching CNC’s for about a month now. I was dead set on shapeoko 5pro 4ft x2ft, then stumbled on one finity. I have heard many people say buy your 2nd machine first. I am new to software CAD/CAM. So i am planning on making signs, charcuterie templates & boards. Flattening live edge boards, & end grain cutting boards & juice grooves. With all that being said do you still think shapeoko?
You bet!
Andy, Lots of good information, great video as always.
However, the one thing you didn't cover is, what if you do not have the MONEY to buy a larger machine. I personally started with a Sainsmart Genmitzu 3018 for $200.00. This machine came with 10 engraving bits to get started. This is the most cost-effective way to get started in CNC. In my opinion. This also helps those that are not sure they would like this type of work. PLUS, a good starting point to make money. I did everything from engraving projects to relief carving with this little machine. It works just like a bigger machine, jobs just take longer and is limited on size, but a great place to start.
Also, YES, YES, YES, Shapeoko is a GREAT company. I purchased the Shapeoko PRO XXL 2 years back and received 100% great customer service, answering questions, replacing defective or missing parts. The forums offer extensive assistance with projects and offering ideas for projects. So yes, excellent company to begin a journey into woodworking.
Thanks for sharing. A lot of great points. Although these smaller machines are an okay place to start for some, (I've made a video about that) I feel often times its a waste. Here's why. 1) Most people get frustrated with the physical limitations. 2) The software is hard to use. 3) There is very little support if you need it.
If you're going to spend $200 on this, take however long it's takes to save $1500 for a small Shapeoko. If it isn't for you, they have a great resale value. Sell it for $1300 and boom, you only spent $200 to give it a try. You're going to have a much better experience this way.
@@AndyBirdBuilds
I get your point, but I think you may have missed mine.
I would have never been able to convince my wife to save or spend the money for a larger machine. I was however, able to get $200 for a Xmas present. Showing her what I could do with that over a few years and happening to get the tax monies from the Gov. She finally agreed.
I will soon be able to add a laser to my machine for even more options for projects.
Sometimes you need to work with what you are able to get where you want to be.
I think these are both great points of view. As someone who is looking to get their first cnc in the next few months, the main difference between your viewpoints are the stakeholders and the environment.
Andy has a workshop, yours is more likely one at home. Therefore you have to convince your partner as well as yourself. After discussions with my wife, I have limited space and as we share finances, it is easier to commit 200 than 2000 up front. However, the projects I want to work on need at least 400x400mm work area.
After watching this video I will save up for the larger machine and learn the software in the meantime.
this year i bought a metre long screw, two metre long extrusions and two metre long supported rods(come with bearings), longer shaft coupler, about the price of the original machine to give it a 300x800mm capacity. with a regular 3018 the width is just as easy to modify, the 3018pro is hard to widen. so you have the base of a machine that can grow, eventually buy more extrusions and you'll have an enormous machine, maybe square rails on the other axis, mgn15's can be had cheap.
@@homezero Yeah - I get your point, and it's a bit of the situation I am in too. And, honestly, I only need a small machine that can do very basic things. I probably going to use it mainly for PCB design (I have have worked in a electronics and networking environment, and still do electronics as a hobby now). I probably so some wood cut outs for cases, but I also have a 3D printer that does a lot too. So yeah - For now my needs are mostly for a (relatively) cheap and small machine.
Another point I would make a remark on, is the cost of the software. Carbide Create is not longer free (only usable as demo honestly) and sets you back $120 a year or $360 for a Perpetual License. Vectrix is even more expensive, so it's difficult to put that in beginners or even hobbyist space. There is software that is free, but has some drawbacks (only file generation for one tool, or pay if you want more), or is always online (I rather have local software because, just as they did with Fusion 360, they can change or cut out stuff you need just on a whim). For now, because I only will use the PCB part of CNC, I will use FlatCAM.
Anyway - It does not hurt to take a look at the available free software, and the pro's and con's.
For work holding, I use strong masking tape on the bed & the underside of the work piece with superglue in between. I've got 1 inch & 3 inch wide Scotch, heat resistant tape that sticks really well to the bed & the 3mm to 18mm birch plywood I use. It doesn't take as mush super glue as you'd think. If I'm cutting small parts, I just use glue lines that are closer together so the part stays down. Not sure where I got this from as I've been doing it this way for years so it might work for others.
Great Info! Thanks very much
You're very welcome!
And this is why I went from a Chinese import 3D printer kit, then built a CNC router from scratch running LinuxCNC using FreeCAD for my CAD/CAM software, and now am building a second much heavier cnc router along with other DIY CNC machines in the near future. I was looking at SendCutSend and realized that I can basically do everything they advertise, I just have to set up for it. I am definitely not limiting myself to wood products but instead am including plastics, metals, and even looking into molding carbon fiber. Once I get the new shop built a DIY plasma cutter for making outdoor steel signs is also a definite. Don't know if I'm going to build a powder coating oven or just send it to a local shop, it will depend on how big I can afford to make the new shop.
The catch is that this approach TAKES SO MUCH LONGER. You are paying using one currency or the other - if you BUY, you are paying in lots of money-units and little time. If you DIY you are paying in lots of time and some money-units. Spend wisely.
If you are doing 2D/2.5D, you should try something other than freecad. Coming from prior drafting experience, it was like nails on a chalkboard trying to accomplish anything in that when I tried it. I tried a bunch of other frustrating programs too.
Autocad 2d is way too expensive. Draftsight (solidwork's 2D autocad clone) used to be cheap but is also expensive.
What I landed on is a perpetual license of CorelCad. It's nearly identical to AC2D and Draftsight, but at a much cheaper price. (i do notice some features I miss from AC2D, but not enough to pay thousands of dollars _per year_ for them).
I'm using cambam as Cam software. It's pretty decent and also a nice forever license. (snagged it on a humble bundle deal or was it a humble indie bundle?)
The program you used was from Linux?
@@summerdove8367 Depends on the machine. The 3D printers are now running klipper firmware, slicing programs used are the Linux versions of Cura/Orca/P)rusa-Slicer. The CNC gantry router is running on LinuxCNC and my CAD/CAM suite is FreeCAD .22 in which I also do ALL my 3D modeling. The engraving laser is running Lightburn and Inkscape running Smoothieware firmware. , and the new cnc-plasma cutter will basically be the exact same as the laser.
If you are willing to invest the time, you can get into this with no money down on the software side, except for Lightburn which does cost money units for a license, but I am happy to do it as they support a native Linux install of the software.
great video. I will need to watch again. I'm looking to get into the CNC Router work. I'm just a hobbyist. I build alot of cutting boards right now and I would think that using a CNC would help with getting things flat and putting juice grooves in the boards. also wife wants me to build some interior decor she can use in her house set ups. The biggest hurdle for me is the software. I have a vast background in woodworking and metal machining so I guess CNC is the next way to go.
Thanks for the comment! Its sounds like you're ready to jump into CNC. Based on my experiences and what you've shared, I would recommend going with a Shapeoko. Great machine, very capable, and it includes everything you need to get started, including software. They have a ton of support to help you get up and running. shop.carbide3d.com/andybirdbuilds
@@AndyBirdBuilds I just posted a comment asking about the software and was able to find it already answered in the comments. That definitely takes some of the headache out of it being that I see CAD costs a whopping $2,000 a year just for one user. Outrageous!
@@agomodernthat's not typical, there are much cheaper.
Great vid, thanks
Glad you enjoyed it
Just got a laser engraver and love it. Thinking about a cnc but moving within a couple years so not sure if i should even invest now considering it could be up to 5 yrs not getting used. 🤔
Also can the router table cut aluminum clean. Thanks
If i mainly wanted to have a plasma table CNC. Do you have an opinion on these of a starter for them.
Awesome videos, I’m looking into buying my first cnc and found a shapeoko 3xxl I can get for $1000. Would it be a good first machine? Or should I hold off and try to find a shapeoko 4?
Great content. Instantly subbed. Cant wait to learn more from you. My question is, I am trying to do hard metal and wood. Does the shakeopo machine you recommended do metal as well. The idea is for me to be able to make 3D style woodwork similar to what hand carved artists make as well as cut and engrave metal to make challenge coins made of steel.
Welcome! The Shapeoko can to metal. Especially something small like a challenge coin.
I work for an industrial machine tool company, and your first 2 tips I give to my customers. I hate trying to help people understand software I myself have never used. and my company makes no money from.
We do a training class before the equipment is actually installed. I can tell 100% who has touched the software in the time between training and start-up. They generally have quality questions day one.
I’m a woodworker, but wasn’t looking for a cnc, but my son recently gave me his old Bob’s cnc evo 4 to play with to see if I like using a cnc. I have absolutely no experience with cnc’s or g code software so thought I would start searching TH-cam and came across your video. It appears Bob’s has downloads of their software for free, so I’ll try that first based on your recommendation of starting with the manufacturer software. I’ll check out your other videos as well! I also have the same HF vacuum system you use, but only used it a couple times. Not sure why, but I’ve been using a 2-stage shop vac system for years as they’ve served me well, although they aren’t great on planers and jointers as they create a lot of chips and sawdust fast. Anyway, if anyone buys the HF vacuum, you’ll need to remove the plastic blade protection screen as the wood chips will get clogged up fast on the screen and you won’t get any suction. Thanks for the video!
Thanks for sharing. Welcome to the world of CNC!
You make some great videos my friend thankyou,I’m very close to pulling the trigger on the 5 pro the only thing holding me back is the fear of not being able to learn the software, it seems very intimidating.
Hey, thanks! You're expectations are correct, the software is the steepest part of the learning curve. But this is precisely the reason I recommend starting with a Shapeoko. shop.carbide3d.com/andybirdbuilds It comes with everything you need to be successful. After all, it takes more than own a CNC to be successful. I think with the right expectations and persistence, anyone can learn CNC.
I always recommend cnc-curious people to get a 3d printer first :) Same mechanics, similar software and hardware, and super useful in any workshop.
Yep, great advice. Except for learning toolpaths / feeds and speeds, they are quite similar from a beginner's point of view. Can even get ready-made projects for both to start on before learning drawing or design programs. And people would be surprised just how much a 3D printer can help outside of "just making toys." Heck, have an air system but the nozzles don't connect to the tool? Design an adapter and save $100 on a new hose.
Great point. Thanks for sharing. I think a laser is a great first step as well.
I got a CNC because I work with so many 3d printers full time
I would recommend a diode laser first. The main reason for that is because it’s the same premise as the CNC router in that you’re engraving and cutting rather than building. The 3d printer is a good idea as well, but if they’re interested in carving, they’re more than likely not as interested in 3d printing.
@RoseKindred Great if you have a budget that can cope with 2 machines!
Newbie here, thanks great information.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for reinforcing the importance of the path I'm trying to follow in bringing CNC capability to my projects. I will look harder at the Shapeoko. I ultimately need to shape, some parts out of specialized foams that will be approximately 13' (yes feet) x 3" x 3" (inch) as well as some other parts out of wood, Carbon fiber plate, Aluminum that can be done on a small format machine. Even If I had an 8' machine, I will still need to slice up the work. Some of the wood parts will want as much Z axis as I can reasonably get. I'm already doing some CAD with Sketchup and am ramping up on Fusion 360.
I'm going to be digging much deeper into the videos you have been producing.
If you intend on doing large format projects, take a look at the Maslow CNC kit (I think they were running around $500). It's designed around cutting projects at 4x8 ft sheets and it would be easy to scale up without adding any cost other than control chain and stands lengths.
That's a lot to ask for most budget prebuilts. If i were you, I'd ask about extended Z options for their machines (remember to look at both travel and clearance), but you are also getting in the range where maybe you should just buy parts and build a frame.
Building a big machine that can handle metal well is going to drastically increase costs. If you don't really need that, you could always start with a smaller machine that can handle the metal work, then later get a bigger machine for the large foam projects.
Are you perhaps making fiberglass molds? You could always cut sectionals and have then stack together on an ibeam jig for rigidity. That would allow you to use a much smaller machine.
Hello, need a quick recommendation on a purchasing a solid CNC for milling recycled plastic boards 1.25” thick. I appreciate any recommendations!
Great info in this video. I started with a Onefinity and use Carbide Create software (which is great software to learn on). I’m a fan of both.
Thanks for sharing!
Hello, I have been using Lasers for many yrs. What is the learning curve switching to CNC?
My gosh, 3D Printing and laser cutting is much easier. I've been wanting to do a CNC mill for years but this is crazy. If anything this video saved me from taking the plunge into getting into CNC.
I've been 3D printing for a few years, and noticed that there seems to be a bit of cross-over technology when it comes to CNCs versus 3D printers... I really appreciate your approach to this video, very helpful!!! You, good Sir, are a smart bastard! (take no offense at bastard: maybe born out of wedlock, but on the plus side, born of noble blood)
Thank you for the video. I am new to the CNC hobby, but really excited to learn as much as I can BEFORE i make a purchase. I'm very familiar with Autocad and comfortable with all of the CNC terminology. I have a nice shop so I am set with that. How long was the Payback on your first CNC purchase? I know that will vary based on the projects that you offer. Just curious about the payback. I plan to just treat it as a hobby for a while. I look forward to your response.
I paid for my first CNC in a couple months.
local sawmills rock. I have several within 30 minutes and if I want to drool - I can drive about an hour to an entire warehouse of wood with all the exotics.
Yes!💪
Well laid out video, I give you credit for that!.. And while the recommended Shapeoko IS pretty complete.. it is beyond the budget of most of us who barely do a few hundred $$ of work every month.. and don't do time payments for the same reason. I can see why there are people out there that DIY their own CNC.. or take the risk to use the cheap imports. It's bout the business model being able to support a massive expenditure. I've owned and run my shop for 38 years, and would love to catapult into the 21st century.. but no one really talks about the business model for the CNC.. just the "how to implement and use" side. Might be a great subject for a future video.. as money gets tighter..
You're correct. Thats why I talk about the business model a lot on my channel. If the business isn't there, then a machine is useless if your goal is to make money.
I am looking to get into cnc. Shapeoko does seem like a nice machine, but it above my budget at the current time. Any suggestions of other machines or manufactures that will work for a beginner?
Excellent
Thank you so much 😀
Andy great video! I've been running an xxl for a few years and looking to upgrade to a 4x4 with a spindle.. looking at the shapeoko5 4x4. Can you comment why you upgraded to the avid vs the shapoko 5?
Thanks for watching! I got my Avid about 6 months before the 5 came out. With that being said, they're 2 totally different machines. The Shapeoko 5 is a very capable cnc, but is still considered a hobby machine. Whereas the Avid is a professional machine. The Avid is not an industrial machine, though.
I have settled on either the shapeoko 4x4 or an avid 4x4. What does the avid have for over twice the price of the shapeoko? I understand it has a bigger spindle, nema 34, etc. I am trying to find the where the extra 5-7k shows up. Feed and speed rates? Better components? Since you have run both machines I figure there is no better person to ask. Thanks in advance for your feedback.
@@AndyBirdBuilds
@@mohillbilly5841 When it comes to performance these machines are in 2 different leagues. One is a hobby machine and one is a professional-grade machine. It comes down to what you want to do with a CNC.
Love your content. My question is about power I have heard that I need a separate circuit for the router and a separate circuit for the computer and a separate circuit for the CNC can you come in on the power requirements for a shapeoco 5 Pro?
I run everything off 1, 20 Amp circuit. I just make sure to have my dust collection on a different circuit.
Perfect. Thank you
I started using screws after watching you for work holding
How does the NextWave Shark SD110 compare? Liked your video as I am a beginner. Experienced woodworker, just new to CNC.
I don't have any experience with that machine. Don't just look at the machine though when you're making a purchase. What about support, software, and compatibility?
Do you know canvas wood frames diy version wholesale company in US. Plus double tape
I'm making a battle bot for mechanical engineering senior design and I'm looking to make 6061-T6511 Aluminum parts, at about 3/8 in thickness. I know the Shapeoko says it can do aluminum but is there anything I should know beforehand, or is this just not advisable?
thanks
You bet!
Do you have an updated video. I think this is several years old
Six months ago I would have agreed with you totally. I have owned and upgraded two Shapeoko CNCs. Adding a HDZ, 80mm spindle mount, plus spindles to both. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed both machines but that was six months ago.
The best advice I can give EVERYONE is buy your second machine FIRST. It doesn't matter if it's a CNC, laser or 3D printer... buy the one you plan on upgrading to or watch TH-cam and see what most people on there upgraded to.
Is it more expensive... yes but it's definitely cheaper than buying two or three before you get the one you want.
I own a Onefinity Elite CNC, Thunder Laser 35-100 and a Bambu Lab X1-Carbon 3D printer and these three are worth saving for.
Thanks for sharing, but I mostly disagree. The machines you mentioned are almost $20,000 combined. That's 10x of what I'm recommending. What would have happened if you bought the Elite Forman as your first machine and you discovered cnc wasn't for you? You bought the machines you have now with the knowledge that you enjoyed cnc, because you learned on less expensive machines.
The argument could be made that a Shapeoko is the 2nd machine, the machine people upgrade to because they are looking at starting with a $300 cnc. So in that scenario, I guess I do agree with you.
The reality is that a Shapeoko 4 or a Shapeoko 5 is the final machine for A LOT of people. They will never need anymore machine for what they want to do. Are there "better" machines? Yes. But there are also trucks with more horse power than mine. Do I need it? No. Would I like to have more horsepower? Well, that's a different conversation.
@@AndyBirdBuilds I think the divergence here is someone usually doesn't go out and spend $20k for a hobby or unplanned business idea. In general I agree with your advice (don't cheap out too much and make it hard on yourself, but also don't empty your retirement).
But if I was making the decision as a profitable business decision, it becomes survivable risk vs sustained reward. For that often buying the more up front pays off sooner and maintains that performance gap. If you can afford $20 in machines, you can afford paying for training and/or hiring experience.
Cash flow wise, someone can probably scrape a few thousand together. That's a big plus to starting a risk business idea with little to no experience. Which is exactly where you advice applies.
@@user-tf1oo9rj6u I think both opinions are correct, depending on your circumstances, depending if you are buying one because you might like to use it vs buying one because you need it.
Andy Bird Bits look exactly like Whiteside brand bits?? Is that what they are? Are you selling them cheaper?
Thank you for great video! I have a question... Is this machine will be able to do some more precise works? I mean a molds for small rubber 2-5cm long shapes with small details. Im trying to find information bout this but it's hard to recognize.. I dont know if in this price range this is possible or I need to look for something more expensive?
Thanks for watching. Yes
Hey Andy, just placed my order for the 5 pro! Wondering if you have any input on what you would use for the table top portion of the table I build for the machine. Any suggestions? Plywood or mdf?
Congrats! I would use plywood
What about budget and space constrained?
$500-$1k and 12x12x2- 16x16x3 size
A couple of things that you didn't mention. NOISE. My shop vac is louder than the router. Both together is deafening. A pair of 30 DB earmuffs is necessary. Some sound proofing may come in handy. TABLE my S4 XXL requires a table of about 4' X 5'. You have to put it somewhere.
Does the age of the machine matter when you buy used?
hi I bought CNC wood machine Queen base from China and the software I have a hard time to connect it I live in Dallas Texas I need help if in Dallas Texas can help
Is there software for 3018 Yorkon
i've never heard of the CAM software you mention, is it meant for hobbyists using small machines? i use Alphacam and Bsolid at work and Alphacam is definitely my go to for CAM software
Yes
but i suppose these machines are only for cncing wood, and for metal there are other machines? i mean i am a metal worker tho i know how cnc machines for steel are looking like but i was just double checking if these tips are only for wood cnc or for all of them in general
Great video. A CNC, like any tool, is not a guaranteed success. You have to learn the machine, the capabilities, your limits, as well as develop a business plan. Most of those should be done ahead of time.
Well said!
I was all set to purchase the Genmitsu 4040 when I came across this video.
PLEASE let me know your thoughts on the Genmitsu vs the Shapeoko for an ABSOLUTE BEGINNER. There is a price difference, but just want to know what would be easiest/user friendly for me.
Thank you.
I think shapeoko would be user friendly , their support is supposed to be good. The software is very user friendly. With genmitsu I think you have to rely on different pieces of software, maybe you won’t find it very user friendly, but it makes a very good learning experience
The first cnc producer who comes up with a "slicer" for cnc will take the amature market.
I don't know why it's not already been done.
WARNING, LONG COMMENT Thanks so much for this informative video, you may have me sold on the Shapeko. I started a woodworking journey a couple years ago (following in my Dads footsteps) with a scroll saw, table saw, drill press and Dremel. The table saw was a bit intimidating for me and I just didn't foresee building on a shop like this in the basement of our rented house. The scroll saw was second hand and i was having too many issues with it for a beginner. I have recently been contemplating a laser. My goal is a hobby making layered signs, charcuterie boards, small projects. After some research I feel that the CNC may be a better fit for me. I love the thought of learning the software! If I may ask one question....lets say you have a design that you want to cut out in pieces (i.e. a snowman and cut out the three body parts, hat, two arms and two legs. Is there a bit with low kerf so that they can be pieced back together after shaping and painting? Sorry if this is not making any sense, will appreciate any input though.
If I am understanding you correctly, you want a magically thin spinning cutter, so everything fits back together tight? That's not going to exist. Think about how flexible very small drill bits are. And they only end-cut, not side-cut. A jog saw is something that does a thing cut like you may be wanting.
The way you would do what you want is design the shape in the computer, then at the CAM stage create 2 parts: 1 that is cut at the outer profile to leave an inner piece, and one that is cut as an inner profile (= inside your line) to leave an outer piece. If you have measured your bit with calipers to get an actual size, those pieces will fit very tightly together.
*One important note on fitting pieces like that:* cutters can't shrink, so some corners will be sharp and others will be radiused. Cutters can only cut as small as their diameter. I'll use 2 star shapes as an example:
Example 1: you want a star. You choose an "outside profile" cut, so it will keep your star shape. All the outer tips will come out pointy, but the inner corners will stop shy, being radiused to the bit diameter.
Example 2: you want a star shaped hole. you choose "inside profile cut." All the inner corners will come out pointy, but all the outer corners of the star will be radiused to the cutter diameter.
Because of those filled in spots, you have 4 options to make your star shape fit into the star shaped hole:
1. clip corners off (to fit within the radiused corners)
2. chisel/hand cut the inside corners deeper/sharper (to accommodate the tips fitting in there)
3. avoid 1&2 by making sure that every corner in your design is actually rounded instead to at least as big as your cutter radius. (eg design a star shape with already rounded corners)
4. multipart instead to avoid tight inner corners. If the positive star shape isn't 1 piece, but instead 5 triangle pieces and 1 pentagon, all the corners can be sharp, and it will fit together at 1 solid inner piece with sharp corners. The hole star shape can be given similar treatment.
If you are mass producing, its definitely worth saving hand cleanup time by using options 3 & 4. Imagine inlaying a cutting board. Instead of cutting the pieces, then spending 1/2hr to corner cleanup each, if it is designed as several pieces, they can all drop in together, no cleanup, all glued & pressed in at the same time.
Now if I totally misunderstood the direction of your question, maybe the snowman is made of hoops? Then yes, a 1/8" or 1/16" diameter cutter would allow the pieces to be cut from inside each other, so it can be assembled or compacted back fitting inside the largest hoop. There would be a little slop (cutter width all around) when stacked compact.
If you just designed your cutout pieces with the correct size/tolerances then the cut size or bit size won't matter and you'll be able to make the pieces fit together as tightly or loosely as you desire. You'll just end up with a small amount of scrapped wood between pieces. Only way I see doing it as you mention.
Double helix compression bit
Thank you!! I know something was wrong with buying a 4 axis cnc with 1.5kw router for $1100 from Aliexpress 😭😭😭😭😭😭
Question on the software. All the videos I've seen seem to be using 2D vectors. Is that all CNC machines can do? Can you create a design in 3D that cuts the material at different depths? Sort of like what a 3D printer would do but in reverse, so instead of additive it would be...subtractive?
Yes, pretty much all do that
I am eyeballing the 5 Pro, is the VFD Spindle worth the extra cash vs Carbide Compact Router?
Yes, totally. To use the 5 Pro to its full potential, you really need the VFD. They're running a sale right now too. shop.carbide3d.com/andybirdbuilds
Can I use Solidworks as CAD and Cam program?
Never have tried it but I'm sure you can. You'll just have to find the correct post processor for your particular machine to make sure the gcode is exported for your machine.
I am not software savvy so what is the easiest to use in this day and age I am hoping there is a system were you put the art work in and it auto converts it to g code I hope
This doesn't exist. The closest thing to it is to buy projects that have the gcode setup for your particular machine. But even then, there are a few variables to consider, such as, workholding and material selection.
Solid video. I whole heartedly disagree with buying a new machine for beginners though. Is it easier? Yes! Save yourself fellas… there’s plenty of good machine that pop up at a great price. Invest the rest of money into vetrics and learn it. Someone in the comments suggested fusion 360… I am leaning towards he hasn’t helped very many people. I would never suggest that one. Another key take away once you commit to buying a machine: reinvest in yourself. I am guessing 90% plus- of people don’t do that. Overall, great video
What machine do you recommend?
@@jeremydillon4385 depends on the budget. A used shapeoko, upgraded older xcarve, millright mega v. Comes down to budget and what you want to make.
Great video but yes I don't agree with your first CNC choice, that I would say would make a great second machine.
And only from a price point of view
I agree with your sentiment, but I also remember someone’s (I don’t remember who) advice on this very topic suggesting you buy your “second” CNC “first”. Food for thought.
@@robertdiffin9136 my second machine cost me $6,500 and my first machine was only $300.
Spending $300 just to see if this was something I even wanted to do was a cheap investment.
I bought Shapoeko XXL about 2 1/2 years ago and I completely agree. It has been a great machine and the customer service is exceptional which I would add to your list! I had my machine for about a year and was having disconnect issues. They sent me some things (free) to try and deal with the issue. I knew absolutely nothing about CNC when I bought it and I believe I made a great purchase.
C&Cs in a hobby woodworking shop reminds me of a chef having a replicator from Star Trek. Will we eventually have a robot doing all our hobbies?
But what if your replicator IS your hobby?
Do you give classes? I’m in lex and looking to start cnc in retirement
I currently do not give classes. But I have a community called the CNC Inner Circle. There are 48 members in it right now that want to and are doing cnc. It's a great place to get started and learn. www.andybirdbuilds.com/shop/cnc-inner-circle
Bull does one on ones in the group “the make” and learn your cnc. Those are your 2 go-toes for training
What is your opinion on buying n a second hand CNC? Maybe from someone who upgraded theirs, etc? Assuming that we're talking about Shapeoko for example, Is spending less to get a machine that's not under warranty worth it? Does the used market offer enough savings to matter, etc? I'm assuming that you have your finger on the pulse of such things, LOL. Any comments appreciated.
I immediately observed the whiskey smoker lol, does he sell them? :D
Yeah ill dig it by hand as long as he sits there and watches me the entire time
What about Yeti Precsion Pro?
Not sure
you said laptop... why not a desktop dedicated/stationed near the cnc? I have a 2015 computer that is still in great shape with Adobe software installed (photoshop, illustrator, etc... I have older adobe software that I own outright... new adobe software is rented via monthly subscription... i need another monthly subscription bill like i need an extra hole in my head) I would like to use my older desktop computer with owned adobe software to generate svg files to import into something like vetric
You're right. You can totally use a desktop as well
The CNC controller/code feeder computer can be a lowly "$35" Raspberry Pi unit or many similar options under $100. Fanless is a great for a wood shop dusty environment I run my Shapeoko with a desktop tower pc sold in 2000! It's running Linux. I can 'upgrade' when it conks out. While I could plumb ethernet or install wifi, it's just as easy to have a USB thumb drive and 'sneaker net' it out to the shop.