Repent and trust in Jesus. we deserve Hell for our sins. For example lying, lusing, saying God's name as a cuss word and stealing our just some examples of sin which we can all admit to doing at least one of those. For our sin we deserve death and Hell, but there is a way out. Repent anf trust in Jesus and you will be saved. Repentence is turning from sin. So repent and trust in Jesus. He will save you from Hell, and instead give you eternal life in Heaven. John 3:16 Romans 3:23❤😊😊❤
I think it should be very normal for a composer to go against his standard at some time because you don't feel the same emotions your whole life long. Humans change their emotions and so does the music change
the same goes when an artist gets tired of a style. Super common if you compare the work composers did throughout their lives. The more they learned the more they expanded their ideas and methods of writing.
How can anyone claim Lizst was a bad composer? His sonata was probably the most important piece in that genre since Beethoven and I would wager few pieces have equaled or exceeded its significance since. His talents go way beyond etudes
Thing is, Liszt was never a bad composer. It's just that there are so many bad performances, that you have to filter out all of the really shit ones to find the gold that's hidden underneath. That aside, my favourite part of the dante symphony is the entire magnificat movement, where Liszt creates images of angels humming in the sky. It's one of the most beautiful things I've heard.
Liszt is a bad composer because people only listen to his bad, pop music compositions lol (pop music, as in literally music for the general populace/audience) Imagine listening to La Campanella and Mazeppa when Mephisto Waltz and Feux Follets exists
Agreed. It's not really that they're bad performances, but it's the artists that really understand the intentions of the composers. They have fluency in their music.
The thing with Chopin is that, even in “happy” pieces, there is deep down a sense of grieving, like remembering beautiful moments with a lost loved one. In that sense, I would say that almost all his pieces have a “sad” moment in them. The heroic polonaise is an exception
The heroic is not really an exception in my opinion, there is a sad e flat minor chord in the main theme when it starts descending, but the military polonaise is sorrow-free I’d say
Some other sorrow-free pieces (I posted about this a few minutes ago, but I don't expect folks to scroll through all posts to find my "gem") are the 3rd movement of the Piano Concerto #1 in E minor, op. 11, the Scherzo #4 in E, op. 54, Ballade #3 in A-flat, op. 47, Rondo in E-flat, op. 16, and Mazurka in E, op. 6 #3. The songs Śliczny chłopiec and Moja pieszczotka from op. 74 are also sorrow-free, but rarely performed in comparison with all the German Lieder out there so good luck finding those!
Repent and trust in Jesus. we deserve Hell for our sins. For example lying, lusing, saying God's name as a cuss word and stealing our just some examples of sin which we can all admit to doing at least one of those. For our sin we deserve death and Hell, but there is a way out. Repent anf trust in Jesus and you will be saved. Repentence is turning from sin. So repent and trust in Jesus. He will save you from Hell, and instead give you eternal life in Heaven. John 3:16 Romans 3:23❤😊❤
In my opinion Schubert is one of the most versatile and complex composers. He wrote so many different things from lighthearted and cheerful dances (waltzes, polonaises etc.) to intimate piano and chamber music to melancholic and dark songs (lieder) to big and powerful symphonies. He even wrote operas.
"Mozart is so cheerful!" *Boss music intensifies while the Commendatore's massive health bar appears* Also, Wagner can be surprisingly gentle and non-loud when he needs to be. And Rossini can be serious and dramatic (especially in Guillaume Tell).
3:23 : "Most young students play the notes of this piece more or less correctly, but without ever penetrating below the surface of the music, to realize its infinite beauty and deep emotional content. Considerable musical feeling and interpretative technique, as well as knowledge of and experience in the use of the finer pianistic tools are imperative to do justice to this music." Maurice Hinson
Thank you so much for the Vivaldi representation ! In my opinion amongst all classical composers he is the one that suffers the most from the clichés. As you said either people only know him for the Four Seasons, or they claim that his music is too simple and repetitive. But if you actually venture into his massive and diverse library, you'll find true masterpieces, counterpoints of utter beauty and complexity, inspired and modern pieces and of course, the usual fiery and intense Vivaldian explosions. For anyone interested you can find a playlist on my channel of my selection of the best of Vivaldi's pieces (haven't finished listening to all of Vivaldi, so said playlist might grow in the future).
Thank you. The classical music station where I live plays mostly Vivaldi "Top 40", ignoring his vocal music. Whenever they schedule yet another of his pieces with the repetitive 16th notes I use my finger power to turn off the radio. I really like his Concerto in C for diverse instruments, but you can only hear it about once a year, if you get lucky. I could never understand why J.S. Bach loved and respected Vivaldi so much. He probably got to hear the good stuff.
Vivaldi is not a Classical composer, is a Baroque composer. Vivaldi died in 1741 and musical classical era start in the mid xxviii century. Classical composer are : Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Joseph Haydn, Christoph Gluck. Also the early/young Beethoven compositions are rooted in classical era.
@@blender_wiki Stop trying to be a smartass, there's a difference between classical music and Classical era. I went through 10 years of music theory and not once was anyone chastised for using the term "classical music" when talking about pre XXIth century western music. Also, if you listen to some of Vivaldi's late pieces, he very clearly dipped into the classical style quite often, so what I said isn't even wrong on a music era standpoint. Also your comment looks like a bot's.
NGL this seriously needs a second part 👀 I would like you to show Beethoven's other side of music instead of those struggling ones (there are some of his cheerful works in the middle period compositions)
I absolutely agree! My favourite work by Beethoven is actually the Violin Concerto, which combines both the cheerfulness and the sublimity into one work.
Another composer that I was actually hoping to see in this video and that I'd say has some tenacious stereotypes is Beethoven. If I ask someone who loves Beethoven what it is that they love, they usually give me things like this: Powerful Dramatic And if I ask someone who is super familiar with Beethoven about what they think of, they will often give me this: Ahead of his time -> Often with Op. 111 as an example Rule breaker Developing a massive work from surprisingly little material -> Often with the Fifth Symphony as an example And I myself as someone who has heard over 100 Beethoven pieces in their entirety know that there are pieces that go against all these stereotypes. Like take his Fantasia in G minor Op. 77 for example. It's improvisatory, it's bright for a significant portion of it, even with a moment in it where it sounds very Scherzo-like. And not like a dramatic Scherzo either, but a joyful and humorous Scherzo. Or the Flute Sonata in Bb WoO Anh. 4, that's by no means ahead of its time. In fact, if you didn't know it was by Beethoven and you just heard the sonata without looking at the music, you would probably think that Mozart wrote it. It feels very much in the same vein as a lot of Mozart's sonatas, bright, happy, not dramatic at all. It was written between 2 years before and 2 years after Mozart's death, so between 1789 and 1793. Or Fur Elise, I could go on, but I think you get the point.
I haven't really listened to a lot of Haydn, so I would have thought that the little excerpt from Creation was composed by Beethoven if I didn't know any better. I guess Haydn's influence on the young Beethoven was even bigger than I ever realized.
Id be great if you could also showcase so of Beethoven's music. People only know him as the guy who wrote Für Elise, Moonlight Sonata, and his 5th Symphony, and they think he was a person who only wrote melodramatic music. He has a lot of softer music that people don't know about that.
Yes! Beethoven is not one of my favorite composers but you make a very valid point. The classical music station in my city tends to only play his piano sonatas with a nickname: Moonlight, Appassionata, Les Adieux, etc. So I suggested we call op. 14 #1 the "Herbert" sonata and op. 14 #2 the "Billy Bob". Nobody was amused. And they still never play those 2, so go figure.
Beethoven’s one of the best composers, but most are either unaware of his finer pieces like his Piano Concerto No. 5 in E-flat major, Op. 73, which is, IMHO, divine.
Thank you for this video. A very needed one. Especially on Vivaldi, whose work we have re-discovered almost a century ago and still far too many people haven't got the picture. The subtle simplicity of the Maestro just goes right over their heads. The lack of imagination of theater directors is also at fault, their fixation on the Four Seasons to the exclusion of the concertos and above all, of the operas and oratorios is inexcusable at this late date. As for Liszt being a bad composer, can someone remind me of a composer in living memory that is distinctly, head and shoulders above him, without a margin for doubt or question? The gall of some self-appointed critics! P.s. You're quite right, we metal heads love Vivaldi. 🤘🤘😉
I'm always tired of Vivaldi being swept under the rug. His work only gets discovered like, not that long ago compared to other pieces, and then people only know him for one damn thing? Pooh!! >8O He has plenty of absolutely awesome sounding pieces that people look over too often
@@wigwagstudios2474 His works were discovered only around 1900. The great Bach, even so far from Venice, transcribed and studied a couple of his concertos...
I've always considered the Chopin Piano Concerto #1 in e also very unlike the vast majority of his repertoire. Unlike the typical walty, mazurka, or polonaise-ish stuff , or even the meditative [but slower] nocturns, this piece begins with a massiveness & classicalness that suggests more like something from Brahms. The finale, as you know doubt know, returns to the kind of stuff we're used to from Chopin.
@@alecrechtiene558 it doesn't matter whether or not you know how to orchestrate if you don't write orchestral music. Brahms knew nothing else, and even in orchestration he was mediocre at best.
I was quite surprised when I first heard Domenico Scarlattis "Stabat Mater" for 10 voiced choir. He is actually most famous for his 555 keyboard sonatas but the Stabat Mater blew my mind.
Mozart's KV 475 Fantasy was always my favorite bit of his: It comes across as something he improvised and then wrote down later, and it meanders wonderfully all over the place. You want a mood, any mood, it's probably in there.
Great video, love all the counter-examples. I had a thought that Mahler is the only composer that wouldn't be on this list (and that is what makes him great) because his music is everything: soft loud, slow fast, simple complex, vulgar sublime etc.
Liszt's oratorio "Christ" should have made the list, it is an example that he knew how to write for the entire orchestra, plus soloists and two choirs all at once. Very beautiful.
My favorite counter to the Wagner stereotype is the “forest murmurs” of Siegfried, Act 2, Scene 2. Very beautiful and light-hearted, even if it doesn’t last long. Siegfried’s Rhine Journey in the Gotterdammerung prologue is a great piece that’s somewhere in between the forest murmurs and the ride of the valkyries in terms of tone and intensity.
Je me permets ici de répondre à quelques commentaires pertinents et intéressants ! Peut-être aurais-je dû expliciter ma démarche : Tout d'abord, certains "clichés" mentionnés dans la vidéo sont issus de sondages, collectés auprès d'un public mêlant mélomanes avertis et personnes non-initiées à la musique classique. Le premier angle de l'expérience est ainsi "sociologique", au sens où l'intérêt se porte sur la façon dont la musique est perçue par le monde contemporain. La musique classique, notamment, est porteuse d'une image très connotée, et abreuve un imaginaire empli de stéréotypes, dont la confrontation avec la réalité musicale me paraissait intéressante. Ensuite, ces clichés, certes erronés, n'en demeurent pas moins très répandus dans les institutions musicales. À titre d'exemple, par expérience personnelle, j'eus nombre de professeurs demandant d'interpréter les "forte" de Schubert avec moins de force ("ce n'est pas Beethoven"), ou de préserver intacte la "délicatesse" de Mozart. Or l'entretien de tels lieux-communs dans les cénacles institutionnels nous détourne des réalités musicologiques, et nous prive bien souvent de la profondeur ou de la pluralité musicale que les compositeurs ont à nous offrir, ainsi que de la représentation que nous autres interprètes pouvons donner à entendre. Le grand chef d'orchestre et musicologue Nikolaus Harnoncourt parle de ces enjeux d'une façon particulièrement éloquente dans son ouvrage "Le dialogue musical" (Gallimard, 1985) : « L'idée qu'on se fait du classicisme viennois est déterminée par un certain nombre de clichés [...]. Schubert est considéré comme un pur romantique et lyrique ; chez lui les contrastes sont indésirables [...] la violence beethovenienne n'est pas son affaire. [...] Dans la diversité des possibilités d'interprétation légitimes, il est évidemment impossible que de tels préjugés soient entièrement faux, mais ici presque tout est déformé et inexact. [...]. Lorsqu'on étudie les partitions manuscrites de Schubert, et non les éditions édulcorées et polies réalisées dans l'entourage de Brahms, on découre des crescendos extrêmes, du ppp au fff [...]. Les interprètes actuels - musiciens de chambre mis à part - s'en tiennent généralement à la vieille édition "édulcorée" dans le goût de Brahms, et ils estompent, même ici, toutes les duretés et les frayeurs qui restent. L'image qu'ont de Schubert la plupart des mélomanes est maintenant fondée sur les trop nombreuses exécutions de ce genre. Je crois que si l'on découvrait une hypothétique exécution originale de Schubert [...] elle ne paraîtrait pas schubertienne et que dans l'indignation on la condamnerait sans hésiter : "Enfin, Schubert n'est pas Beethoven !". » Harnoncourt démontre ainsi que les clichés n'émanent pas seulement des images sociales ; ils sont activement créés et entretenus par les acteurs du monde musical eux-mêmes, parfois malgré eux, imposant ainsi comme vision unique ce qui s'apparente à une ouverture aux contresens. Qu'il s'agisse des interprètes, des éditeurs, des garants des institutions, on aperçoit qu'un "polissage" comme le dit Harnoncourt a eu lieu, pour des motifs idéologiques ou simplement par perpétuation d'une tradition. Il y a donc une "falsification" musicale qui s'entretien par l'édification de tels stéréotypes, et c'est aussi en ce sens que la nuance redevient indispensable. Ainsi, ce sont des clichés "plutôt faux" puisqu'ils sont, naturellement, des clichés sans nuance ; mais ce ne sont pas de "faux clichés", dans la mesure où ils ne sont pas inventés simplement pour satisfaire les besoins d'une vidéo : la plupart sont documentés, ont une histoire et une permanence tout à fait digne d'intérêt. Je suis navré si la présentation de tels stéréotypes paraît ainsi caricaturale voire grossière. Le trait est en effet grossi pour amplifier l’effet de contraste, à l’instar de ce que produisent certaines vidéo « clickbait » foisonnant sur TH-cam, et dont cette présente vidéo se voulait l’écho et la nuance. Je vous remercie de vos retours, il sont très appréciés !
Je suis parfaitement d'accord; certains de ces stéréotypes me paraissaient en effet assez surprenants, mais je découvre maintenant qu'il s'agit plutôt de contenu sociologique plus que musical qui cherche à démentir ces nombreux biais et préjugés que tiennent si souvent certains néophytes ne connaissant pas entièrement les répertoires de ces si grands artistes.
C'est surtout que beaucoup de compositeurs ont quelques oeuvres particulièrement connues, mal interprétées parfois, qui à elles seules leurs font cette réputation. Exemple de "La Campanella" ou l'Etude "Mazeppa" de Liszt qui se font charcuter par les fanatiques de la pyrotechnique au piano, rien que pour épater la galerie. J'ai toujours fermement maintenu que Liszt n'était pas moins un musicien que Chopin, mais que sa réputation est bafouée par ce genre de performances. Il incarne surtout à mes yeux la personnification de ce qui définit la période romantique, très souvent grandiloquent et dans l'excès de sentimentalismes, ce qui lui convient très bien. Une erreur que je vois souvent dans l'interprétation de Chopin est une musique remplie de rubatos excessifs et constants, mais je suis de l'avis de Arthur Rubinstein. La précarité de son corps tuberculeux est à dissocier de sa personnalité indépendante, plus forte, noble et affirmée. Rachmaninov aujourd'hui souffre exactement du même problème que Liszt puisque les musiciens d'Instagram (pour citer un exemple) utilisent sa musique aux mêmes fins. La conclusion qui en ressort le plus souvent, c'est que c'est "difficile à jouer", son objectif n'ayant toujours été que de composer avec son coeur, dicté par son idéal musical. Son langage requiert la maîtrise technique du piano jusqu'au bout des doigts, mais ce n'est pas la finalité. Je peux aussi citer Prokofiev dont je suis devenu un admirateur il y a quelques années en écoutant Sviatoslav Richter, peut-être je pense l'interprète idéal de la musique du 20ème siècle, interpréter ses Sonates. Capable de beaucoup de finesse, on en retient trop souvent la violence. Ma conclusion sur "pourquoi" la musique classique est la cible de nombreux stéréotypes en général, c'est sûrement le fait de n'avoir qu'un seul mot qui répertorie des mouvements dont la mise en forme est indépendante, contenant des compositeurs dont chacun détient un lexique qui lui appartient. Le baroque, le classicisme, le romantisme, le post-romantisme, c'est un savoir qui s'est résorbé dans le mot "classique" et désormais les méconnaisseurs n'y voient plus de différences. D'ailleurs ce n'est pas un problème que seul le monde de la musique a.
Et oui, vous mettez le doigt sur un des fonctionnements séculaires de l'être humain : le classement de toute chose en "catégories" associées à des "généralisations" qui y seront associées. Je ne pense pas que cela parte d'une mauvaise intention, mais juste une façon d'appréhender toutes choses complexes dont la connaissance intime reste au-delà des efforts possibles et/ou consentis.
Great montage! It is widely acknowledged that Mozart's work toward the end of his life tends to be more somber, far from being all cheerful. The clarinet concerto, some of the late piano concertos (KV 466 and 491) and symphonies (KV 550), are among his best and emotionally deepest works. Just look for the minor keys!
Dios, cómo amo la música de Vivaldi. Él es mucho más que las cuatro estaciones. Si vieran todas sus obras, sabrían que Vivaldi tiene más rock que cualquier banda moderna.
For the next one you should do something involving Shostakovich. I know he's often categorized as gloomy and morose, but his 9th symphony is very much a joyful and bouncy piece.
That symphony is the definition of sarcasm. A very mocking piece towards the government of the time and the military. I wouldn't call it truly joyful and happy since it's clear he just wanted make a mockery of those of people rather being genuinely happy.
Was it, though, perhaps not also intended to revive spirits and bring some joy and humour in a dark time? And there is also the Suite for Variety Orchestra, with the Waltz, and the Second Piano Concerto, written to celebrate his son's birthday, and The Golden Age, which is satirical but fun.
How wonderful! Vivaldi especially needed this video. As with any composer, there are more stereotypes we can push back against with him. How did you make this video? I'd love to do so myself specifically for Vivaldi. Let's show people his counterpoint.
I can think of some more for Haydn and Mozart. Haydn’s Stabat Mater and Seven Last Words of Christ on the Cross are very somber works. His Piano Sonata 53 in E minor Hob. XVI:34 has been described as comic for all of the pauses in the first movement, but the dreary E minor key gives it a more menacing, dreamlike quality in my opinion. I paired it with Fuseli’s painting The Nightmare when I uploaded it to my channel. As for Mozart, his Violin Sonata in E minor K. 304 and Organ Fantasy in F minor K. 608 both defy the “cutesy” idea of Mozart. The proto-Romanticism of the Piano Rondo in A minor K. 511 is another contender. Ditto for the Piano Concerto No. 24 in C minor K. 491.
I agree with the Beethoven fans demanding Beethoven. He had a playful/lighter side and also there's the cliche spread by people misinterpreting Bernstein, that he can't write melodies. Also early Schoenberg, if that counts, could be in a sequel.
Excellent de voir par des exemples concrets que tous ces clichés ne tiennent pas la route. Bravo pour Vivaldi qui est peut-être le compositeur classique le plus sous-estimé. Pour Wagner, le contre-exemple est excellent mais il aurait peut-être fallu en donner d'autres histoire, que les gens ne disent pas qu'une hirondelle ne fait pas le printemps. Le premier qui me vient à l'esprit est le prélude du 3ème acte des Maitres Chanteurs. Mais j'ai envie d'écrire tellement sa musique est à l'opposé des clichés évoqués ici. Quant à la chevauchée des Walkyries, ça n'est ni lourd , ni pesant, ni pompeux...C'est tout simplement génial. Vous devriez faire une vidéo pour détruire les clichés sur Beethoven colportés par des gens qui pourtant écoutent de la musique classique et que l'on trouve parfois dans des livres. 1- Beethoven n'est pas un mélodiste. En contre exemple on peut prendre entre autres le début du mvt à variations du 12ème quatuor. Mais surtout: 2- Beethoven ne savait pas écrire des fugues et son niveau en contrepoint était très moyen voire faible. C'est la plus grande ânerie que que l'on puisse lire ou entendre et des contre exemples, il y en a des dizaines.
Haydn is 'simple'? I've sung his _Creation_ Mass, and it was the most difficult I've ever done. Multiple fugues, and basses lead every single one. In the Gloria, the bass part goes from G at the bottom of the staff to E-flat above Middle C in like ten measures. But it was so much fun once we figured it out.
A superb video. And quite an eye opener! Also, I find that many of the comments here from fellow You-Tubers are very intelligent, including those in French. I would be quite happy to translate, into English, Walden Nyhl's comment that starts with "Je me permets ici de répondre à quelques commentaires..." (I happen to be bilingual). The way I've often (to myself) described musical stereotypes is that classical music can become "ritualised" i.e. we take in the first few seconds of an ultra-famous piece of music, we get a dopamine hit (because we *recognise* it within milliseconds); thereafter we stop any real "curiosity-driven" listening, and we react to the composition in a predictable, comfortable, comfort-giving way. Truly new music, be it from 150+ years ago, like the fine examples given in this video, or be it more recent, original *questing* or *searching* music does not initially provide a dopamine hit, because it requires mental effort, it makes us uncomfortable, and so we tune it out, we switch it off. I imagine that "branding" operates the same way: we are taught to recognise a *product* in a fraction of a second; thereafter, whether we accept or reject it, we stop thinking about it.
Les "étiquettes" sont pratiques pour être lues de loin ; mais de près , souvent , elles perdent tous leur sens... Merci par cette étude d'apporter ici de précieuses nuances
Bach : sérieux, pesant, compose seulement des fugues ennuyeuses et de la musique sacrée pour beaucoup. Il a également composé la Cantate du Café qui raconte l'histoire d'un homme essayant désespérément de convaincre sa fille d'arrêter de boire du café. Ravel : essentiellement connu pour son Boléro. Son concerto pour piano témoigne d'un certain intérêt pour le jazz et c'est à lui que nous devons les orchestrations des œuvres pour piano de Moussorgski. Tchaïkovski : compositeur de ballet, très pessimiste. Son premier quatuor à cordes est tout le contraire. Rachmaninov : pianiste, très difficile à jouer, assez sombre. Sa polka italienne est très légère et les mouvements lents de ses concertos sont souvent très doux et apaisants, en contraste avec les allegros tourmentés.
Some pieces by Chopin that would go against the cliché are the Ballade #3 in A-flat, op. 47, 3rd movement of Piano Concerto #1 in E minor, op. 11, Scherzo #4 in E, op. 54, Rondo in E-flat, op. 16 and Mazurka in E, op. 6 #3. There are many other examples, but these pieces blow the cliché to bits. Props to the poster for digging up the Ecossaise, published posthumously.
For Chopin, a beautiful exemple would be La Valse du Petit Chien, it checks every opposite boxes, it's joyful, playful even, fast and you can totally feel how well he captured the image of a litle dog running after its own tail :)
You know, for every composer I think lesser of, my criticisms of them are the "cliché" ideas presented in the videos. Maybe it's good to open my mind up to the other sides of each composer.
Votre analyse est très pertinente on voit que le sujet est maîtrisé félicitation c'était très instructif tant musicalement que linguistiquement parlant !
I think Wagner stereotypes are just plain wrong. Most of his music is emotionally and musically complex, lovely and passionate; ride of the Valkyries is more like an outlier to me than the norm. Also, my favourite non Haydn-like Haydn is the slow movement of String quartet Op. 76 No 1 with the Alban Berg Quartet. It's also one of the most non C-major like C major pieces in my opinion.
His music seems to be, in my view, the closest thing to a rendering of nature in notes. Especially the Vorspiel to Das Rheingold. But he does have bombastic military pieces (Tannhäuser’s Entry of the Guests, the Rienzi March), which I also love. And which are certainly easier listening.
Franz Liszt only has been seen as only a "transcriber", and a "player just for show". They forgot his genius from pieces like Reminiscences de Norma, and his 36 Etudes (Exercises, Grandes and Transcendentals).
Très bonne vidéo! Elle permet de rappeler qu'il ne faut pas réduire un compositeur à un style donné par un morceau ou plusieurs. Il eût été possible d'inclure Bach aussi, en réponse aux nombreux clichés jugeant sa musique très (trop) mathématique, sans passion... alors que sa vie a été dédiée à insuffler la passion de sa foi dans ses compositions (surtout Masses, cantates, œuvres pour orgues)... Bravo pour cette démarche !
Wonderful video, tho I was kind of hoping to see you challenge the stereotypes associate with Beethoven; namely, that his music is always dramatic and stuff, which is certainly not true, even in his late era.
That´s why these really "nightmarish" Debussy pieces are known only by academic people. I have probably listened to them before, but they´re made to be forgotten.
Edit: I wrote way too long if a comment so there’s a TL;DR: at the bottom Lmao 😅 Very interesting!!! I disagree with sone of the stereotypes being disproven here, insofar as I haven’t heard them thrown around as clichés. Chopin being called “slow” for instance. What is immediately brought to mind for me when I think “Chopin” are his Etudes, like the Revolutionary or Winter Wind, both of which are FAST!! Or at least too fast for me 😂 But that was only a few clichés here and there; on the whole I agree with and was quite intrigued with your video!! Introduced me to some works by these composers which I was unfamiliar with. You don’t have to sell me on Vivaldi, he is one of my favorite composers, as Baroque music is the only genre/period of classical music I listen to for fun in the background these days, but I had never heard any of his vocal music before! I must go in search of some more of his work for double choir, that was captivating! However I will add that it’s not just Vivaldi who’s metal- many composers from that period have a distinctly “metal” or “hardcore” vibe to their sound. Just look at how easily Bach is folded into the music of Trans Siberian Orchestra. Another great example is Telemann’s Concerto for Flute and Recorder in E Minor. The final movement especially is a headbanger 😂 I’m a big proponent for Baroque music and specifically for HIPP (I was delighted to see you use recordings from the Academy of Ancient Music and my favorite ensemble, Voices of Music!!) as a vehicle to deliver classical music to the public. Despite being the oldest of what is considered the conventional classical canon (at least for instrumental music), I find it to be the most accessible for the very reasons you stated. There is a reason that the Four Seasons still is so widely known in the public consciousness, having stood a test of time longer than any piece by Mozart or Tchaikovsky. I’m fact, despite that being his cliché, there is sone great “metal” music in both Winter and Summer! Anyway, I think that early music with period practice and instruments gives a fresh and exciting sound with an open mindset, a sort of question of living history: “could it have sounded like this?” And specifically with music that hearkens so vividly to modern conventions: “could their tastes have been similar to ours?” Which of course begets the ultimate question of history: “are we really so different from our ancestors, or even people across the world?” Welll I’m waxing a bit philosophical at the end there but it really is a passion of mine, history and music, and their power to invigorate and inspire us even today. Side note, I’ve always been fascinated by the way baroque orchestral music is often orchestrated and executed. In many concerti, you have a solo instrument or small group of solo instruments, backed by a larger (but still quite small by modern orchestral standards) group of mostly string instruments, with some woodwinds or brass depending on the piece. Then you have a stringed bass instrument playing the bassline while a plucked string player, or perhaps a keyboardist, or both, improvise their own voicings and rhythms over the established chord progression outlined by the bass. Sound familiar at all? When you describe it that way, it is *remarkably* similar to the jazz big band of the 20’s-present day. A solo or soloists playing lead (and often ornamenting and improvising as baroque soloists were meant to), a chamber-sized ensemble backing them up, and a rhythm section of bass, guitar, and piano playing the bassline and improvising voicings and rhythms for the established chord progression. Figured bass is even a predecessor to the modern lead sheet notation!! You’re just missing the drums in Baroque music (but occasionally there are sone)! So anyway, that’s just to show more connections to modern music that the Baroque era holds for us! *TL;DR:* Very cool vid, thanks for showing me music I hadn’t heard before, Vivaldi/baroque music rock, I’m a nerd, more people should listen to baroque music 😤😤✨✨✨
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how can people call Liszt a "bad composer" 🥲, my boy literally made the piano sound like a orchestra
Yeah most of his stuff doesn't resonate with me but clearly he is very good at it
Same
That makes him a great pianist, not a grest composer.
In fact, he was a great transposer
@@Tautusian ... and his orchestral works make him a great orchestral composer not a great pianist. Oh wait he's both 🤯
Repent and trust in Jesus. we deserve Hell for our sins. For example lying, lusing, saying God's name as a cuss word and stealing our just some examples of sin which we can all admit to doing at least one of those. For our sin we deserve death and Hell, but there is a way out. Repent anf trust in Jesus and you will be saved. Repentence is turning from sin. So repent and trust in Jesus. He will save you from Hell, and instead give you eternal life in Heaven.
John 3:16
Romans 3:23❤😊😊❤
I think it should be very normal for a composer to go against his standard at some time because you don't feel the same emotions your whole life long. Humans change their emotions and so does the music change
the same goes when an artist gets tired of a style. Super common if you compare the work composers did throughout their lives. The more they learned the more they expanded their ideas and methods of writing.
How can anyone claim Lizst was a bad composer? His sonata was probably the most important piece in that genre since Beethoven and I would wager few pieces have equaled or exceeded its significance since. His talents go way beyond etudes
He was also one of the best piano transcriber, possibly even the father of the piano transcription.
Thing is, Liszt was never a bad composer. It's just that there are so many bad performances, that you have to filter out all of the really shit ones to find the gold that's hidden underneath. That aside, my favourite part of the dante symphony is the entire magnificat movement, where Liszt creates images of angels humming in the sky.
It's one of the most beautiful things I've heard.
So which bad performances have you heard?
The only people who call Liszt a bad composer are people who don't know Liszt.
Liszt is a bad composer because people only listen to his bad, pop music compositions lol (pop music, as in literally music for the general populace/audience)
Imagine listening to La Campanella and Mazeppa when Mephisto Waltz and Feux Follets exists
@@Pakkens_Backyard It doesn't have to mean that La Campanella and Mazeppa are bad just because they're popular.
Agreed. It's not really that they're bad performances, but it's the artists that really understand the intentions of the composers. They have fluency in their music.
The thing with Chopin is that, even in “happy” pieces, there is deep down a sense of grieving, like remembering beautiful moments with a lost loved one. In that sense, I would say that almost all his pieces have a “sad” moment in them. The heroic polonaise is an exception
The heroic is not really an exception in my opinion, there is a sad e flat minor chord in the main theme when it starts descending, but the military polonaise is sorrow-free I’d say
Some other sorrow-free pieces (I posted about this a few minutes ago, but I don't expect folks to scroll through all posts to find my "gem") are the 3rd movement of the Piano Concerto #1 in E minor, op. 11, the Scherzo #4 in E, op. 54, Ballade #3 in A-flat, op. 47, Rondo in E-flat, op. 16, and Mazurka in E, op. 6 #3. The songs Śliczny chłopiec and Moja pieszczotka from op. 74 are also sorrow-free, but rarely performed in comparison with all the German Lieder out there so good luck finding those!
Some of his etudes are pretty joyful, but they are short.
Repent and trust in Jesus. we deserve Hell for our sins. For example lying, lusing, saying God's name as a cuss word and stealing our just some examples of sin which we can all admit to doing at least one of those. For our sin we deserve death and Hell, but there is a way out. Repent anf trust in Jesus and you will be saved. Repentence is turning from sin. So repent and trust in Jesus. He will save you from Hell, and instead give you eternal life in Heaven.
John 3:16
Romans 3:23❤😊❤
off topic,@@christianweatherbroadcasting
The prelude of Lohengrin is absolutely gorgeous, makes me cry at times
I’m a classical music noob and the only piece I really knew from Schubert was Der Erlkonig.
“Good natured” was not my first impression.
Same, I only heard Der Leiermann and boy is it not cheerful
In my opinion Schubert is one of the most versatile and complex composers. He wrote so many different things from lighthearted and cheerful dances (waltzes, polonaises etc.) to intimate piano and chamber music to melancholic and dark songs (lieder) to big and powerful symphonies. He even wrote operas.
The the Elfking 😅
Der Erlkönig is a Lied. Definitely the best style of Schubert. And they aren't light AT ALL.
@@FriedMetroid LMAO I cannot languages
"Mozart is so cheerful!"
*Boss music intensifies while the Commendatore's massive health bar appears*
Also, Wagner can be surprisingly gentle and non-loud when he needs to be. And Rossini can be serious and dramatic (especially in Guillaume Tell).
Mozart is tragic. Only superficial pple think he's "cheeful".
@@elizabethcsicsery-ronay1633 Mozart is the embodiment of a multi-faceted gem.
3:23 : "Most young students play the notes of this piece more or less correctly, but without ever penetrating below the surface of the music, to realize its infinite beauty and deep emotional content. Considerable musical feeling and interpretative technique, as well as knowledge of and experience in the use of the finer pianistic tools are imperative to do justice to this music." Maurice Hinson
Thank you so much for the Vivaldi representation ! In my opinion amongst all classical composers he is the one that suffers the most from the clichés.
As you said either people only know him for the Four Seasons, or they claim that his music is too simple and repetitive.
But if you actually venture into his massive and diverse library, you'll find true masterpieces, counterpoints of utter beauty and complexity, inspired and modern pieces and of course, the usual fiery and intense Vivaldian explosions.
For anyone interested you can find a playlist on my channel of my selection of the best of Vivaldi's pieces (haven't finished listening to all of Vivaldi, so said playlist might grow in the future).
Thank you. The classical music station where I live plays mostly Vivaldi "Top 40", ignoring his vocal music. Whenever they schedule yet another of his pieces with the repetitive 16th notes I use my finger power to turn off the radio. I really like his Concerto in C for diverse instruments, but you can only hear it about once a year, if you get lucky. I could never understand why J.S. Bach loved and respected Vivaldi so much. He probably got to hear the good stuff.
Vivaldi is not a Classical composer, is a Baroque composer.
Vivaldi died in 1741 and musical classical era start in the mid xxviii century. Classical composer are : Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Joseph Haydn, Christoph Gluck. Also the early/young Beethoven compositions are rooted in classical era.
@@blender_wiki Stop trying to be a smartass, there's a difference between classical music and Classical era. I went through 10 years of music theory and not once was anyone chastised for using the term "classical music" when talking about pre XXIth century western music.
Also, if you listen to some of Vivaldi's late pieces, he very clearly dipped into the classical style quite often, so what I said isn't even wrong on a music era standpoint.
Also your comment looks like a bot's.
@cimbalok agreed on Vivaldi's vocal music. I love his operas, lots of fun. Luckily these days they're getting resurrected.
@@blender_wiki The Classical period of Western Classical Art Music is not the same as Western Classical Art Music itself.
NGL this seriously needs a second part 👀
I would like you to show Beethoven's other side of music instead of those struggling ones (there are some of his cheerful works in the middle period compositions)
We also have those absolutely sublime works with rich harmonies.
I absolutely agree! My favourite work by Beethoven is actually the Violin Concerto, which combines both the cheerfulness and the sublimity into one work.
@@johngreen1176 nice. I am a sucker for his late piano sonatas. The second movement of no. 32 is breathtaking.
@@alecrechtiene558 personally, his last 3 sonatas are my favourite over the overhyped "moonlight"
@@alecrechtiene558 That is one of the greatest works ever, but it's so sublime I find it difficult to listen to except occasionally.
6:24 He was really able to bring alive the sick feeling of feeling like every movement you do is a scary act of distruction
Underrated Video, I enjoyed all of it! I especially like the care and time you put into searching all these pieces.
I wish there were more videos like this! Such a breath of fresh air.
It takes a real connoisseur of classical music to produce such a video. Thank you so much for this video.
Oh yes one can. Bro just quoted Pulcinella which is litteraly a parody as an example of why stravinsky's music isn't modern.
Please english speaking guys stop saying « connoisseur » its « connaisseur » thanks haha
@@gegeleduc no because it comes from the french verb "connoître" which means to know
@@m_vd_ld precisely no, it’s « connaître » in French and it gives « connaisseur »
@@gegeleduc wtf bro everyone saies connoîsser for 'to know
Very nice! I have always felt that many, even in the music community don't fully appreciate the depth and versatility of these composers.
Another composer that I was actually hoping to see in this video and that I'd say has some tenacious stereotypes is Beethoven. If I ask someone who loves Beethoven what it is that they love, they usually give me things like this:
Powerful
Dramatic
And if I ask someone who is super familiar with Beethoven about what they think of, they will often give me this:
Ahead of his time -> Often with Op. 111 as an example
Rule breaker
Developing a massive work from surprisingly little material -> Often with the Fifth Symphony as an example
And I myself as someone who has heard over 100 Beethoven pieces in their entirety know that there are pieces that go against all these stereotypes. Like take his Fantasia in G minor Op. 77 for example. It's improvisatory, it's bright for a significant portion of it, even with a moment in it where it sounds very Scherzo-like. And not like a dramatic Scherzo either, but a joyful and humorous Scherzo.
Or the Flute Sonata in Bb WoO Anh. 4, that's by no means ahead of its time. In fact, if you didn't know it was by Beethoven and you just heard the sonata without looking at the music, you would probably think that Mozart wrote it. It feels very much in the same vein as a lot of Mozart's sonatas, bright, happy, not dramatic at all. It was written between 2 years before and 2 years after Mozart's death, so between 1789 and 1793.
Or Fur Elise, I could go on, but I think you get the point.
Thank you for this excellent video! I’d love to see a follow-up with more composers - particularly Elgar, Shostakovich, Rachmaninov or Gershwin!
For Shostakovich something like Suite on Finnish Themes or his post-WW2 victory symphony
Mozart’s “Don Giovanni” is a true masterpiece.
I haven't really listened to a lot of Haydn, so I would have thought that the little excerpt from Creation was composed by Beethoven if I didn't know any better. I guess Haydn's influence on the young Beethoven was even bigger than I ever realized.
Most perceptive comment.
@@brinkbooks3492agreed
Id be great if you could also showcase so of Beethoven's music. People only know him as the guy who wrote Für Elise, Moonlight Sonata, and his 5th Symphony, and they think he was a person who only wrote melodramatic music. He has a lot of softer music that people don't know about that.
Yes! Beethoven is not one of my favorite composers but you make a very valid point. The classical music station in my city tends to only play his piano sonatas with a nickname: Moonlight, Appassionata, Les Adieux, etc. So I suggested we call op. 14 #1 the "Herbert" sonata and op. 14 #2 the "Billy Bob". Nobody was amused. And they still never play those 2, so go figure.
You like Wagner, don't you.
And we don't need to know them
There's so much better composers
Beethoven’s one of the best composers, but most are either unaware of his finer pieces like his Piano Concerto No. 5 in E-flat major, Op. 73, which is, IMHO, divine.
@@EmilyGloeggler7984His final 2 sonatas are probably the greatest sonatas ever composed
Thank you for this video. A very needed one.
Especially on Vivaldi, whose work we have re-discovered almost a century ago and still far too many people haven't got the picture. The subtle simplicity of the Maestro just goes right over their heads. The lack of imagination of theater directors is also at fault, their fixation on the Four Seasons to the exclusion of the concertos and above all, of the operas and oratorios is inexcusable at this late date.
As for Liszt being a bad composer, can someone remind me of a composer in living memory that is distinctly, head and shoulders above him, without a margin for doubt or question?
The gall of some self-appointed critics!
P.s. You're quite right, we metal heads love Vivaldi. 🤘🤘😉
Brahms? Schumann?
@@nomadr1349Living memory = less than 100 years.
@@luisnunes3863 well, I named his contemporaries, I guess having such ones is what has lead to Liszt's aforesaid reputation.
I'm always tired of Vivaldi being swept under the rug. His work only gets discovered like, not that long ago compared to other pieces, and then people only know him for one damn thing? Pooh!! >8O
He has plenty of absolutely awesome sounding pieces that people look over too often
@@wigwagstudios2474 His works were discovered only around 1900. The great Bach, even so far from Venice, transcribed and studied a couple of his concertos...
As a composer, Liszt is certainly underrated. He was revolutionary, especially in his dissonances.
I've always considered the Chopin Piano Concerto #1 in e also very unlike the vast majority of his repertoire. Unlike the typical walty, mazurka, or polonaise-ish stuff , or even the meditative [but slower] nocturns, this piece begins with a massiveness & classicalness that suggests more like something from Brahms. The finale, as you know doubt know, returns to the kind of stuff we're used to from Chopin.
Have you listened to chopin's scherzos, sonatas, ballades, fantasie in f minor? I'm also more fan of his larger works
@@fjdyyh2542*fantaisie
please don't compare a genius like chopin, to an incompetent imbecile like brahms
Except Brahms actually knew how to orchestrate.
@@alecrechtiene558 it doesn't matter whether or not you know how to orchestrate if you don't write orchestral music.
Brahms knew nothing else, and even in orchestration he was mediocre at best.
I was quite surprised when I first heard Domenico Scarlattis "Stabat Mater" for 10 voiced choir. He is actually most famous for his 555 keyboard sonatas but the Stabat Mater blew my mind.
Similarly, people who don’t know J. S. Bach’s cantatas get some surprises from them…
Mozart's KV 475 Fantasy was always my favorite bit of his: It comes across as something he improvised and then wrote down later, and it meanders wonderfully all over the place. You want a mood, any mood, it's probably in there.
Great video, love all the counter-examples. I had a thought that Mahler is the only composer that wouldn't be on this list (and that is what makes him great) because his music is everything: soft loud, slow fast, simple complex, vulgar sublime etc.
This is a great way to get a fuller and more realistic image of their music and also discover new music. Refreshing video.
Liszt's oratorio "Christ" should have made the list, it is an example that he knew how to write for the entire orchestra, plus soloists and two choirs all at once. Very beautiful.
The minor 9ths in Vivaldi's Lauda Jerusalem are metal af. What a dude.
My favorite counter to the Wagner stereotype is the “forest murmurs” of Siegfried, Act 2, Scene 2. Very beautiful and light-hearted, even if it doesn’t last long. Siegfried’s Rhine Journey in the Gotterdammerung prologue is a great piece that’s somewhere in between the forest murmurs and the ride of the valkyries in terms of tone and intensity.
Here's my counter to you: Wagner was a shitty person and classical music could do without
Or much of Parsifal
les nocturnes de Debussy sont très clairement une inspiration majeure de ce qu'a fait John Williams en musique de films
Shostakovich: dissonance, dark, depressing, anxious
but: piano trio 1, suite for 2 pianos 2nd movement, prelude and fugue A major
Je me permets ici de répondre à quelques commentaires pertinents et intéressants ! Peut-être aurais-je dû expliciter ma démarche :
Tout d'abord, certains "clichés" mentionnés dans la vidéo sont issus de sondages, collectés auprès d'un public mêlant mélomanes avertis et personnes non-initiées à la musique classique. Le premier angle de l'expérience est ainsi "sociologique", au sens où l'intérêt se porte sur la façon dont la musique est perçue par le monde contemporain. La musique classique, notamment, est porteuse d'une image très connotée, et abreuve un imaginaire empli de stéréotypes, dont la confrontation avec la réalité musicale me paraissait intéressante.
Ensuite, ces clichés, certes erronés, n'en demeurent pas moins très répandus dans les institutions musicales. À titre d'exemple, par expérience personnelle, j'eus nombre de professeurs demandant d'interpréter les "forte" de Schubert avec moins de force ("ce n'est pas Beethoven"), ou de préserver intacte la "délicatesse" de Mozart. Or l'entretien de tels lieux-communs dans les cénacles institutionnels nous détourne des réalités musicologiques, et nous prive bien souvent de la profondeur ou de la pluralité musicale que les compositeurs ont à nous offrir, ainsi que de la représentation que nous autres interprètes pouvons donner à entendre.
Le grand chef d'orchestre et musicologue Nikolaus Harnoncourt parle de ces enjeux d'une façon particulièrement éloquente dans son ouvrage "Le dialogue musical" (Gallimard, 1985) : « L'idée qu'on se fait du classicisme viennois est déterminée par un certain nombre de clichés [...]. Schubert est considéré comme un pur romantique et lyrique ; chez lui les contrastes sont indésirables [...] la violence beethovenienne n'est pas son affaire. [...] Dans la diversité des possibilités d'interprétation légitimes, il est évidemment impossible que de tels préjugés soient entièrement faux, mais ici presque tout est déformé et inexact. [...]. Lorsqu'on étudie les partitions manuscrites de Schubert, et non les éditions édulcorées et polies réalisées dans l'entourage de Brahms, on découre des crescendos extrêmes, du ppp au fff [...]. Les interprètes actuels - musiciens de chambre mis à part - s'en tiennent généralement à la vieille édition "édulcorée" dans le goût de Brahms, et ils estompent, même ici, toutes les duretés et les frayeurs qui restent. L'image qu'ont de Schubert la plupart des mélomanes est maintenant fondée sur les trop nombreuses exécutions de ce genre. Je crois que si l'on découvrait une hypothétique exécution originale de Schubert [...] elle ne paraîtrait pas schubertienne et que dans l'indignation on la condamnerait sans hésiter : "Enfin, Schubert n'est pas Beethoven !". »
Harnoncourt démontre ainsi que les clichés n'émanent pas seulement des images sociales ; ils sont activement créés et entretenus par les acteurs du monde musical eux-mêmes, parfois malgré eux, imposant ainsi comme vision unique ce qui s'apparente à une ouverture aux contresens. Qu'il s'agisse des interprètes, des éditeurs, des garants des institutions, on aperçoit qu'un "polissage" comme le dit Harnoncourt a eu lieu, pour des motifs idéologiques ou simplement par perpétuation d'une tradition. Il y a donc une "falsification" musicale qui s'entretien par l'édification de tels stéréotypes, et c'est aussi en ce sens que la nuance redevient indispensable.
Ainsi, ce sont des clichés "plutôt faux" puisqu'ils sont, naturellement, des clichés sans nuance ; mais ce ne sont pas de "faux clichés", dans la mesure où ils ne sont pas inventés simplement pour satisfaire les besoins d'une vidéo : la plupart sont documentés, ont une histoire et une permanence tout à fait digne d'intérêt.
Je suis navré si la présentation de tels stéréotypes paraît ainsi caricaturale voire grossière. Le trait est en effet grossi pour amplifier l’effet de contraste, à l’instar de ce que produisent certaines vidéo « clickbait » foisonnant sur TH-cam, et dont cette présente vidéo se voulait l’écho et la nuance.
Je vous remercie de vos retours, il sont très appréciés !
Je suis parfaitement d'accord; certains de ces stéréotypes me paraissaient en effet assez surprenants, mais je découvre maintenant qu'il s'agit plutôt de contenu sociologique plus que musical qui cherche à démentir ces nombreux biais et préjugés que tiennent si souvent certains néophytes ne connaissant pas entièrement les répertoires de ces si grands artistes.
Passionant !
"Mais enfin, Schubert n'est pas Brahms !"...
@@Nomatterwhat69 Hi ! Hi !😂
C'est surtout que beaucoup de compositeurs ont quelques oeuvres particulièrement connues, mal interprétées parfois, qui à elles seules leurs font cette réputation. Exemple de "La Campanella" ou l'Etude "Mazeppa" de Liszt qui se font charcuter par les fanatiques de la pyrotechnique au piano, rien que pour épater la galerie. J'ai toujours fermement maintenu que Liszt n'était pas moins un musicien que Chopin, mais que sa réputation est bafouée par ce genre de performances. Il incarne surtout à mes yeux la personnification de ce qui définit la période romantique, très souvent grandiloquent et dans l'excès de sentimentalismes, ce qui lui convient très bien.
Une erreur que je vois souvent dans l'interprétation de Chopin est une musique remplie de rubatos excessifs et constants, mais je suis de l'avis de Arthur Rubinstein. La précarité de son corps tuberculeux est à dissocier de sa personnalité indépendante, plus forte, noble et affirmée.
Rachmaninov aujourd'hui souffre exactement du même problème que Liszt puisque les musiciens d'Instagram (pour citer un exemple) utilisent sa musique aux mêmes fins. La conclusion qui en ressort le plus souvent, c'est que c'est "difficile à jouer", son objectif n'ayant toujours été que de composer avec son coeur, dicté par son idéal musical. Son langage requiert la maîtrise technique du piano jusqu'au bout des doigts, mais ce n'est pas la finalité.
Je peux aussi citer Prokofiev dont je suis devenu un admirateur il y a quelques années en écoutant Sviatoslav Richter, peut-être je pense l'interprète idéal de la musique du 20ème siècle, interpréter ses Sonates. Capable de beaucoup de finesse, on en retient trop souvent la violence.
Ma conclusion sur "pourquoi" la musique classique est la cible de nombreux stéréotypes en général, c'est sûrement le fait de n'avoir qu'un seul mot qui répertorie des mouvements dont la mise en forme est indépendante, contenant des compositeurs dont chacun détient un lexique qui lui appartient. Le baroque, le classicisme, le romantisme, le post-romantisme, c'est un savoir qui s'est résorbé dans le mot "classique" et désormais les méconnaisseurs n'y voient plus de différences. D'ailleurs ce n'est pas un problème que seul le monde de la musique a.
Et oui, vous mettez le doigt sur un des fonctionnements séculaires de l'être humain : le classement de toute chose en "catégories" associées à des "généralisations" qui y seront associées. Je ne pense pas que cela parte d'une mauvaise intention, mais juste une façon d'appréhender toutes choses complexes dont la connaissance intime reste au-delà des efforts possibles et/ou consentis.
Great montage! It is widely acknowledged that Mozart's work toward the end of his life tends to be more somber, far from being all cheerful. The clarinet concerto, some of the late piano concertos (KV 466 and 491) and symphonies (KV 550), are among his best and emotionally deepest works. Just look for the minor keys!
I can't believe that there are people who look down on Vivald's musical work. None of them can do what he did. I say f 'em.
Dios, cómo amo la música de Vivaldi. Él es mucho más que las cuatro estaciones. Si vieran todas sus obras, sabrían que Vivaldi tiene más rock que cualquier banda moderna.
I would love to see a Part 2 with Beethoven in it. :)
Je veus que tu fasse plus de video de ce style! C'est vraiment un delice à regarder
J'ai beaucoup aimé la démarche! Cela ma fait découvrir de nouvelles composition musicale de Stravinsky et de Debussy !
You said de bussy
@@caesarpizza1338tu veux quoi
@@tonymathieu7449 lol, silly frenchy
@@kekulusskek pourquoi tu dis ça beau gosse
En effet, c'est une bonne manière d'augmenter sa culture, j'aime beaucoup aussi tout ce qui agrandit mes connaissances
This is so funny, even when Debussy is trying his hardest to sound dissonant, brutal and nightmarish, he still sounds dreamy and ethereal to me
For the next one you should do something involving Shostakovich. I know he's often categorized as gloomy and morose, but his 9th symphony is very much a joyful and bouncy piece.
That symphony is the definition of sarcasm. A very mocking piece towards the government of the time and the military. I wouldn't call it truly joyful and happy since it's clear he just wanted make a mockery of those of people rather being genuinely happy.
Was it, though, perhaps not also intended to revive spirits and bring some joy and humour in a dark time? And there is also the Suite for Variety Orchestra, with the Waltz, and the Second Piano Concerto, written to celebrate his son's birthday, and The Golden Age, which is satirical but fun.
@@nothng7853 I mean, it's definitely a snarky piece, but it's not like it's got a different character from most of his other work
@@GlaceonStudios true
Or his pop "2nd Waltz" 😂
Oh, Chopin had a lot of happy pieces, u know, however, yes, practicality always we can hear this depressive mood in the deep of such pieces 😢
Really nice choice for Schubert. You showed my favourite side of this composer with some of his pieces that I personally prefer. Congrats
My favorites started to turn stale and over-listened. Then this video showed me lots of fresh, exciting music
Though, still nobody can dispute that Chopin is a piano man.
How wonderful!
Vivaldi especially needed this video. As with any composer, there are more stereotypes we can push back against with him. How did you make this video? I'd love to do so myself specifically for Vivaldi. Let's show people his counterpoint.
I can think of some more for Haydn and Mozart. Haydn’s Stabat Mater and Seven Last Words of Christ on the Cross are very somber works. His Piano Sonata 53 in E minor Hob. XVI:34 has been described as comic for all of the pauses in the first movement, but the dreary E minor key gives it a more menacing, dreamlike quality in my opinion. I paired it with Fuseli’s painting The Nightmare when I uploaded it to my channel. As for Mozart, his Violin Sonata in E minor K. 304 and Organ Fantasy in F minor K. 608 both defy the “cutesy” idea of Mozart. The proto-Romanticism of the Piano Rondo in A minor K. 511 is another contender. Ditto for the Piano Concerto No. 24 in C minor K. 491.
The clichés are still clichés, really nice and enlightening to see the other side of the famous composers in accordance with the Law.
Vivaldi the father of metal
His pieces are so passionate!!!!! Love him ❤
Man where was this video i swear i tried to look for it a couple of months back
I love the smooth transition from the G minor moment in the Don Giovanni overture to the G minor section of K. 466's romanze!
Une vidéo absolument géniale ! Merci pour le travail fourni ! Je ne peux que vous encourager de continuer 😁😁
Debussy's 3 chansons de Charles d'Orléans is also a good example of another Debussy : vocal a capella, rythmic, old school techniques, counterpoint...
Wir singen in unserem Chor Debussy Dieu qui la...3 Chansons
In Erfurt.
You happen to include my favorite symphony of Haydn ^^
I agree with the Beethoven fans demanding Beethoven. He had a playful/lighter side and also there's the cliche spread by people misinterpreting Bernstein, that he can't write melodies.
Also early Schoenberg, if that counts, could be in a sequel.
Excellent de voir par des exemples concrets que tous ces clichés ne tiennent pas la route.
Bravo pour Vivaldi qui est peut-être le compositeur classique le plus sous-estimé.
Pour Wagner, le contre-exemple est excellent mais il aurait peut-être fallu en donner d'autres histoire, que les gens ne disent pas qu'une hirondelle ne fait pas le printemps. Le premier qui me vient à l'esprit est le prélude du 3ème acte des Maitres Chanteurs. Mais j'ai envie d'écrire tellement sa musique est à l'opposé des clichés évoqués ici. Quant à la chevauchée des Walkyries, ça n'est ni lourd , ni pesant, ni pompeux...C'est tout simplement génial.
Vous devriez faire une vidéo pour détruire les clichés sur Beethoven colportés par des gens qui pourtant écoutent de la musique classique et que l'on trouve parfois dans des livres.
1- Beethoven n'est pas un mélodiste. En contre exemple on peut prendre entre autres le début du mvt à variations du 12ème quatuor.
Mais surtout:
2- Beethoven ne savait pas écrire des fugues et son niveau en contrepoint était très moyen voire faible. C'est la plus grande ânerie que que l'on puisse lire ou entendre et des contre exemples, il y en a des dizaines.
Une approche originale, pédagogique et agréable ❤
“Chopin is a composer that composes slow music!”
Me, plays the piano, staring fearfully at his etudes and ballades
Haydn is 'simple'? I've sung his _Creation_ Mass, and it was the most difficult I've ever done. Multiple fugues, and basses lead every single one. In the Gloria, the bass part goes from G at the bottom of the staff to E-flat above Middle C in like ten measures.
But it was so much fun once we figured it out.
A superb video. And quite an eye opener! Also, I find that many of the comments here from fellow You-Tubers are very intelligent, including those in French. I would be quite happy to translate, into English, Walden Nyhl's comment that starts with "Je me permets ici de répondre à quelques commentaires..." (I happen to be bilingual). The way I've often (to myself) described musical stereotypes is that classical music can become "ritualised" i.e. we take in the first few seconds of an ultra-famous piece of music, we get a dopamine hit (because we *recognise* it within milliseconds); thereafter we stop any real "curiosity-driven" listening, and we react to the composition in a predictable, comfortable, comfort-giving way.
Truly new music, be it from 150+ years ago, like the fine examples given in this video, or be it more recent, original *questing* or *searching* music does not initially provide a dopamine hit, because it requires mental effort, it makes us uncomfortable, and so we tune it out, we switch it off.
I imagine that "branding" operates the same way: we are taught to recognise a *product* in a fraction of a second; thereafter, whether we accept or reject it, we stop thinking about it.
for more versatility of debussy, just check out his two books of preludes. it's like treasure hunting.
Les "étiquettes" sont pratiques pour être lues de loin ;
mais de près , souvent , elles perdent tous leur sens...
Merci par cette étude d'apporter ici de précieuses nuances
Bach : sérieux, pesant, compose seulement des fugues ennuyeuses et de la musique sacrée pour beaucoup. Il a également composé la Cantate du Café qui raconte l'histoire d'un homme essayant désespérément de convaincre sa fille d'arrêter de boire du café.
Ravel : essentiellement connu pour son Boléro. Son concerto pour piano témoigne d'un certain intérêt pour le jazz et c'est à lui que nous devons les orchestrations des œuvres pour piano de Moussorgski.
Tchaïkovski : compositeur de ballet, très pessimiste. Son premier quatuor à cordes est tout le contraire.
Rachmaninov : pianiste, très difficile à jouer, assez sombre. Sa polka italienne est très légère et les mouvements lents de ses concertos sont souvent très doux et apaisants, en contraste avec les allegros tourmentés.
Marvellous, thank you for this gift to humanity brother
I’d say schubert’s cliche is his being dramatic and tragic and pompous, (see Death and the maiden, Tragic symphony n4)
Great video!
What a cool video! Merci :)
Amazing video, i learned about new pieces thanks to you!
Some pieces by Chopin that would go against the cliché are the Ballade #3 in A-flat, op. 47, 3rd movement of Piano Concerto #1 in E minor, op. 11, Scherzo #4 in E, op. 54, Rondo in E-flat, op. 16 and Mazurka in E, op. 6 #3. There are many other examples, but these pieces blow the cliché to bits. Props to the poster for digging up the Ecossaise, published posthumously.
Bonjour, je suis prêt pour une deuxième partie ! Merci beaucoup !
Great content. I need a second part!!!
For Chopin, a beautiful exemple would be La Valse du Petit Chien, it checks every opposite boxes, it's joyful, playful even, fast and you can totally feel how well he captured the image of a litle dog running after its own tail :)
You know, for every composer I think lesser of, my criticisms of them are the "cliché" ideas presented in the videos. Maybe it's good to open my mind up to the other sides of each composer.
very interesting video. lots of "haters" back in the days, eh? :)
i love Stravinsky Dumbarton Oak Concerto. And all Vivaldi’s sacred music
The beginning of liszt’s Faust symphony goes through all 12 tones
Votre analyse est très pertinente on voit que le sujet est maîtrisé félicitation c'était très instructif tant musicalement que linguistiquement parlant !
Ngl that Debussy goes hard. Sounds like a mix between Stravinsky and Korsakov.
What a wonderful lineup, love it!
I think Wagner stereotypes are just plain wrong. Most of his music is emotionally and musically complex, lovely and passionate; ride of the Valkyries is more like an outlier to me than the norm.
Also, my favourite non Haydn-like Haydn is the slow movement of String quartet Op. 76 No 1 with the Alban Berg Quartet. It's also one of the most non C-major like C major pieces in my opinion.
His music seems to be, in my view, the closest thing to a rendering of nature in notes. Especially the Vorspiel to Das Rheingold.
But he does have bombastic military pieces (Tannhäuser’s Entry of the Guests, the Rienzi March), which I also love. And which are certainly easier listening.
glad to see people are still completely misunderstanding Liszt after like nearly 100 years.
Franz Liszt only has been seen as only a "transcriber", and a "player just for show". They forgot his genius from pieces like Reminiscences de Norma, and his 36 Etudes (Exercises, Grandes and Transcendentals).
Don't forget his amazing b minor sonata.
@@petervella6973 I'm gonna forget that piece anyways, 30-minute piece of pure hell. I guess we have his arrangement of Ode to Joy, but still.
Haydn's 45 is one of my favorites, played it with a chamber orchestra in music school
that last vivaldi piece goes fucking hard.
Who on earth would call Mozart "insipid"? That's beyond absurd.
I've loved this video! Very original and insightful 😊
Très bonne vidéo! Elle permet de rappeler qu'il ne faut pas réduire un compositeur à un style donné par un morceau ou plusieurs. Il eût été possible d'inclure Bach aussi, en réponse aux nombreux clichés jugeant sa musique très (trop) mathématique, sans passion... alors que sa vie a été dédiée à insuffler la passion de sa foi dans ses compositions (surtout Masses, cantates, œuvres pour orgues)...
Bravo pour cette démarche !
Vidéo très construite, je suis reconnaissant du travail fourni ici.
Merci.
There's a lot of Vivaldi in Mozart
Some pieces are almost similar !
Thank you for this. Fascinating
Can we get a part two with Beethoven, Mahler, Rachmaninov Tchaikovsky, ravel, Brahms or even some lesser known composers like Dittersdorf or Vanhal?
Very interesting video! Hope to see more creative vids like this from other creators. You have earned a sub ;)
Extrêmement intéressant!
Very good video. i wish you had included Berlioz.
Wonderful video, tho I was kind of hoping to see you challenge the stereotypes associate with Beethoven; namely, that his music is always dramatic and stuff, which is certainly not true, even in his late era.
If you hear someone says that Schubert wasn't good at symphony and piano music(or just a lieder composer), just give this video to them(??
That´s why these really "nightmarish" Debussy pieces are known only by academic people. I have probably listened to them before, but they´re made to be forgotten.
Edit: I wrote way too long if a comment so there’s a TL;DR: at the bottom Lmao 😅
Very interesting!!! I disagree with sone of the stereotypes being disproven here, insofar as I haven’t heard them thrown around as clichés. Chopin being called “slow” for instance. What is immediately brought to mind for me when I think “Chopin” are his Etudes, like the Revolutionary or Winter Wind, both of which are FAST!! Or at least too fast for me 😂 But that was only a few clichés here and there; on the whole I agree with and was quite intrigued with your video!! Introduced me to some works by these composers which I was unfamiliar with. You don’t have to sell me on Vivaldi, he is one of my favorite composers, as Baroque music is the only genre/period of classical music I listen to for fun in the background these days, but I had never heard any of his vocal music before! I must go in search of some more of his work for double choir, that was captivating! However I will add that it’s not just Vivaldi who’s metal- many composers from that period have a distinctly “metal” or “hardcore” vibe to their sound. Just look at how easily Bach is folded into the music of Trans Siberian Orchestra. Another great example is Telemann’s Concerto for Flute and Recorder in E Minor. The final movement especially is a headbanger 😂 I’m a big proponent for Baroque music and specifically for HIPP (I was delighted to see you use recordings from the Academy of Ancient Music and my favorite ensemble, Voices of Music!!) as a vehicle to deliver classical music to the public. Despite being the oldest of what is considered the conventional classical canon (at least for instrumental music), I find it to be the most accessible for the very reasons you stated. There is a reason that the Four Seasons still is so widely known in the public consciousness, having stood a test of time longer than any piece by Mozart or Tchaikovsky. I’m fact, despite that being his cliché, there is sone great “metal” music in both Winter and Summer! Anyway, I think that early music with period practice and instruments gives a fresh and exciting sound with an open mindset, a sort of question of living history: “could it have sounded like this?” And specifically with music that hearkens so vividly to modern conventions: “could their tastes have been similar to ours?” Which of course begets the ultimate question of history: “are we really so different from our ancestors, or even people across the world?” Welll I’m waxing a bit philosophical at the end there but it really is a passion of mine, history and music, and their power to invigorate and inspire us even today.
Side note, I’ve always been fascinated by the way baroque orchestral music is often orchestrated and executed. In many concerti, you have a solo instrument or small group of solo instruments, backed by a larger (but still quite small by modern orchestral standards) group of mostly string instruments, with some woodwinds or brass depending on the piece. Then you have a stringed bass instrument playing the bassline while a plucked string player, or perhaps a keyboardist, or both, improvise their own voicings and rhythms over the established chord progression outlined by the bass. Sound familiar at all? When you describe it that way, it is *remarkably* similar to the jazz big band of the 20’s-present day. A solo or soloists playing lead (and often ornamenting and improvising as baroque soloists were meant to), a chamber-sized ensemble backing them up, and a rhythm section of bass, guitar, and piano playing the bassline and improvising voicings and rhythms for the established chord progression. Figured bass is even a predecessor to the modern lead sheet notation!! You’re just missing the drums in Baroque music (but occasionally there are sone)! So anyway, that’s just to show more connections to modern music that the Baroque era holds for us!
*TL;DR:* Very cool vid, thanks for showing me music I hadn’t heard before, Vivaldi/baroque music rock, I’m a nerd, more people should listen to baroque music 😤😤✨✨✨
Part 2 🙏
I knew you would use Dies Irae for Mozart! I literally just watched the video to see if you would.