Mark, what you said in the video is something that I've thought for very long time but I kept it to myself. Even after becoming a elder in the Lord's body for a short period of time, I kept it to myself. The church is so far away from what the Lord intended it to be. We have made ourselves a denomination. We are governed by a school of thought from people in the 40s, the '50s, the '60s and it seems to be more about power control than anything else. Very little is truly about God's ability to save wretched souls. It's so amazing how if you don't follow the exact same steps that the Church of Christ congregation on the south side of town is doing. Your local body is considered progressive. Some congregations sadden me some school of thoughts infuriate me. But what you said in this video needs to be shouted from the highest mountain so that every woman, man and child can hear it. God loves us all and he wishes that no one would be lost, but all would come to the belief to the understanding to the knowledge of the depth of his love. How dare someone say that they truly love Christ and withhold water saving water from someone else. The church in America and where Americans go and teach seems to be teaching a divided body, a divided Christ and it's sad.
Any group that can be identified by its boundaries is a "denominated" group, or a denomination. It is what it is; I haven't lost any sleep over it in decades.
I've been having these thoughts, and perhaps it's partly due to the fact I came out of the Baptist denomination, but when I gave my life to to Christ and started looking for truth, looking for the True Church, I found the Restoration movement wonderful. That said it just doesn't seem to be holding up to it's own ideals as you say, I'm entering ministry myself, part of me hopes I can maybe make a change.
I am not a COCer, but Matt, you got this lesson straight from God, whether you realize it or not! I pray this reaches all COC congregations as it will surely point many back to the better path and my friends can recognize me as a brother. Its all about who God recognizes as a child of God, not the COC. Romans 8:9, Romans 8:16, Eph 1:13-14 Galatians 3:1-3
My understanding to be in the "True Church of Christ" is to believe, repent, confess, be baptized for the remissions of your sins, and be faithful. To be faithful means to do the will of the Father.
@Donnie Jax Nope. No man is perfect. If they were perfect then Christ would not have died for us. If a Christian does sin, if they repent of the sin, ask for forgiveness with a Godly sorrow, and turn from that sin, you will be forgiven. This applies to being faithful as well. However if one makes a habit of not being faithful then that will lead to what the Hebrew writer wrote. Heb. 10:26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, Or as Paul wrote in Romans (paraphrased) "Shall we go on sinning, may it never be."
@junkyarddog A denomination definition is to be a part of the whole. The Church of Christ strives to be the original Church that was started on the Day of Pentecost. Not just the parts that suits man's desire.
@junkyarddog I've been in it for years myself. I've found that it is not a denomination, not from what I've been told but from my own studies. It's not dead, it's not legalistic since there is law in the New Testament, Romans 1 for example. Narrow minded I am sure that there are those, but there are those who study the scriptures constantly to ensure what they believe is correct. I teach a group that we discuss the scriptures on average once a week. What makes you think it is a sect, which it isn't, or a denomination, which again it isn't?
@@EverlastingLife-pl9ug As i have stated to others. The Church of Christ is not the church of the world. The Church of Christ is a spiritual Church made up of a body of true believers. It follows the teachings of Christ. Anyone can put up a sign that says they are the Church of Christ. If they don't follow what Christ taught, then they aren't a denomination, they aren't part of the Church of Christ. Just like the person who posted the video to TH-cam, both of you need to learn what Christ was talking about when it came to the Church.
I’ve been saying these very things for a long time and I have had well meaning brothers and sisters look at me like I have three heads. As a good friend mine says.... “A fish doesn’t know it’s wet.”
In regards to what the speaker pointed out, He is off about the CHURCH OF CHRIST not being the 1 and only true Church. He is off in saying that the COC has been denominatidonalize. There’s 5 things that a person must do in order to be in CHRIST (a Christian). You must do these 5 biblical steps in order to become a Christian: 1.) Hear 2.) Believe 3.) Repent 4.) Confess 5.) Be Baptized What the speaker failed to bring to the table is that the CHURCH OF CHRIST is unique in that it’s the only church that adapts this correct, biblical formula for salvation. No other church adhere to these steps in their doctrine for salvation. How then can the other churches be within the realms of salvation when they teach the sinner prayer, when they “X” out baptism and in some cases accepts sprinkling for salvation? Most importantly they are just flat out ignorant of what the basic, simple gospel is which, is that: 1.) Jesus died for our sins 2.) Was buried 3.) & Rose again 9 times out of 10 if you ask a denominational pastor or leader what the gospel is you’ll get a totally different answer. That’s unfortunate because the you’re saved if you keep the gospel in remembrance as Paul mentioned. How then can the denomination be saved without the correct teachings for salvation? So in essence, the Church of Christ is the the 1 and only true church chiefly because they are the only ones who teaches the keys 🔑 for salvation which is through the gospel! Now how the COC conducts themselves after the obedience of the gospel does factor in as the speaker mentioned in the video. Nevertheless, as he and Paul mentioned, they are still the CHURCH OF GOD/CHURCH but have to make the necessary adjustments in order to be in good standings with God and to be able to remain on the road to salvation.👍🏿
Straw men are quite easy to defeat. I appreciate the time and thought you out into your comment. The issue is you are painting a billion people in monochrome. It isn’t really a fair summation. Do you really believe all but 1 million people who call themselves Christians don’t understand Jesus died, was buried and raised? Lots of other issues in your comment but let’s start there. Please back up your point that only the CofC gets the DBR of Jesus.
@@revolutionofordinaries Greetings sorry for the late response! I’ve been watching quite a few of your videos and I believe that every COC elder/leader can learn scores of profitable information that you lay out! I’m in agreement with a lot of your teachings my friend! I just wanted to point that out! To answer your question it’s one thing to believe in the DBR of Jesus and it’s another to be able to identify it as the gospel and to teach it as well. Else you’ll be teaching something in vain if you don’t know what the gospel is . How can you teach the gospel when you don’t know what the gospel is in particular? Most people who believes the DBR don’t know that the DBR is the gospel. Again, I challenge you to do a brief survey of professing believers of Christ, just ask like 3 of them; ask them what the gospel is and they will not say it’s the DBR of Christ. 9 times out of 10 you will get a totally different answer. So in essence,! if you don’t know what the DBR is how then can you fulfill the great commission which is to go out into the world and preach the gospel when you don’t know what the gospel is. He that believes the gospel and is baptized shall be saved. The gospel is all about Christ and that’s where God chooses to put the saving power which is through the belief of the DBR of his son. The gospel saves 1 Corinthians 15:2 and if you don’t know what the gospel consist of in particularly you can’t fulfill the great commission.
Paul says not only believe the gospel, but stand on it or you have believed in vain. I’m thinking there were a few people in Corinth not standing on the gospel, what do think?
Another Great video!! I would imagine you will get some negative feedback from traditional teaching groups. No offense intended I grew up that way. But does it Really hold to how Jesus lived n taught? Many times no. We have good intentions but gotten off in the weeds too deeply many times.Really refreshing Thank You so much. God Bless
The New Testament church had problems with lack of Godly living and observance of false doctrie. This is one of the reasons why the apostles and other church leaders wrote (inspired by the HS) most of the NT. So, the writers of the NT consistently sought to educate and redirect. In short, they distinguished between truth and falsity. There is a right way! This way identifies the church that Jesus established. Therefore, those who have been added to the body of Christ need to be faithful to the doctrine and way of living that Jesus has imparted. We need to spend time studying, understanding, and practicing the teachings of Christ. Brother, I am not naive. It is obvious that many congregations have the tendency to be legalistic. For this reason, I am grateful to God for autonomy and mature/Spirit led leadership. I hope you understand that Jesus did establish one church and that there is one way people are able to be added to that church (we don't need the restoration movement to understand this, it is clearly taught in the Bible). Now, does this fact give us the right to condem those who have followed different ways of becoming a Christian? Of course not! But I would hope that we can lovenly share with others what the New Testament teaches. May I remind you that even if we wanted to, the Bible doesn't teach anything about the sinners' prayer, infant baptism, "once saved-always saved", etc. So, we should be asking ourselves, where do we draw the line? I hope we let the Bible draw the line! I pray God gives you wisdom to correctly influence those who you minister. Blessings.
@@respectingthewordpodcast I'm sorry for my delayed response. The book of Acts describes how the Gospel of Jesus Christ was preached in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and Samaria, and as far as the remotest part of the earth. The preaching of this Gospel resulted in the establishment of the church that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 16:18. The apostles and those who became followers of Christ preached only one Gospel (Galatians 1:9). It is this Gospel that frees sinners from condemnation (John 3:16-17, Romans 6:1-13). Obedience to this Gospel indicates our allegiance to our Lord Jesus Christ. Of course, obedience to the Gospel doesn't only encompass that by faith; a person repents, confesses, and be baptized into Jesus Christ. That is only the beginning of a process of transformation to become more like Jesus (Romans 12:1-2). Brother, we are not here in this world to or anyone's religion; we are here to share the true Gospel of Jesus Christ in a wise and loving way. We are here to imitate our Savior and Teacher. We are here to glorify God in everything we do. I am glad that you and I have a way of knowing what the Gospel of Christ is and how to glorify God. It is my prayer that we both continue to grow in these areas. Blessings.
Lovingly and wonderfully said. I'll say again, if I'd had this sort of clear, unbiased, loving teachings in college I believe my journey would've been much smoother! One thing that was so amazing when I begun to investigate the Eastern Orthodox Church was that they (we) absolutely believe the Orthodox Church is THE Church (why be part of one that you didn't believe that of?!) but the circle we would draw would include everyone else who ends up "in heaven" (or better said enjoying God's Love in all eternity) as inside that circle. As I often hear, "We know where the Church is... we don't know where it isn't." As Father Andrew Stephen Damick recently said, "I think there is a temptation to sort of want to make these things mentally easy, to identify church membership with salvation, to say if you formally belong to a certain body that in the end you will be in heaven when you die, and from an Orthodox point of view, that’s simply not true. Human life, human existence, is very dynamic, and therefore any group that has humans as its main constituent is also going to be dynamic. It is possible to be in one day and out the next. It is possible; it certainly is possible. While Orthodox Christians would identify the Orthodox Church as being that Church that Christ founded, uniquely that Church, at the same time, we would not say that if you are not at this moment formally part of that Church that you are going to hell. We do not know that." www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/aftoday/who_is_a_christian
@@revolutionofordinaries Amen! Like the lyrics of one of my favorite songs from The Indigo Girls ("The Wood Song") says... ========== No way construction of this tricky plan Was built by other than a greater hand With a love that passes all out understanding Watching closely over the journey Yeah but what it takes to cross the great divide Seems more than all the courage I can muster up inside Although we get to have some answers when we reach the other side The prize is always worth the rocky ride But the wood is tired and the wood is old And we'll make it fine if the weather holds But if the weather holds we'll have missed the point That's where I need to go
One knows if one is saved. When we don't know is when we drift from the teachings of Chrsit and the Apostles. If one is baptized (immersed) for the remissions of their sins, and they are faithful, unto death, then they absolutely know. As a matter of fact, Jesus said in Mark 16:16 how to know if you are saved or not.
This guy is spot on... and is clearly describing the arrogance of CoCs that have lead to extremely stagnant numbers in the past 10-20yrs, and also less and less young people continuing on in CoCs. There is too much information in this age for these tactics to continue to be effective. CoCs through “pattern theology” have indirectly taught that our assurance and confidence is found in those traditions and teachings NOT in the finished work of Christ...in saying that though, there are many many brothers and sisters that I love and cherish in the CoCs that show the fruit of living for Jesus
I spent the first 35 of my 38 yrs in 2 different CoCs. My early childhood years were in what some would call a “anti” type or ultra conservative, then after a split (which all CoC folks know about), my parents along with a few other families started a different CoC that is still going today...I’ve seen you comment on church planting before and I agree wholeheartedly. CoCs never plant churches b/c they constantly split from existing churches over disagreements (usually dogma related). I live in one of the smallest counties in Alabama and there are close to 60 different CoC congregations!! How is that reflecting the 1st century church?? Peter didn’t write to 50 some odd separate, distinct groups of exiles. CoCs have missed the mark on this but I totally see why when all of our confidence is in “knowing the Bible”. We train our young folks to combat other denominations more than combating the adversary that Eph6 describes. There’s no wonder we are so arrogant when so much effort is spent on our “uniqueness “....hate to ramble here, but this is extremely serious stuff. I got baptized when I was 14 cause all I ever heard from adults including my parents was “ you need to be thinking about getting baptized “ not you need to be thinking about Christ’s substitutionary atonement for my sins, that he did 100% out of love and obedience to the Father. When I “got baptized” or “obeyed the gospel “ or whatever we want to call it, I just got wet out of peer pressure and there was no transformative work going on in my spiritual condition... Thank God Almighty for His patience and grace that 20 yrs after this He drew me near and I surrendered my life to Him, and I know without a shadow of doubt that I am His....thank you for these videos
I’m amazed that you are COC and as objective as you are. Many of the things you’ve said are reasons why I left the COC. The Word says that Jesus is the judge(not that we can’t). Jesus though will judge who is in and who is out not us. Jesus was given all power and authority not the bride. I feel that the COC has tried usurp that authority from Christ.
Excellent video! I was third generation Church Of Christ. Until I was about 38 years old. I am now 47 and still struggle with the traditions I was taught. I am very happy in the church I am in now. But they do have instruments. Even though I am full of the Holy Spirit and have now learned what that means, and I have learned more in the past ten years then ever before, there is still the echo in the back of my head that I could be doing something wrong.
Stacie Messner Sister... I am so thankful for you! I am too for the first time in my life finding the Spirit. It breaks my heart because the church today is so void of the Spirit.. We have become pharisaical in everything we do, and I have been trying my best to preach grace, and praying that God will open their hearts to understand that God’s grace is truly the only thing that can save us. Our “law keeping” does not justify us, it is only Christ. I too, on this journey have the occasional feeling of wanting to revert to my old thoughts for the security of being “safe.” Here is my advice in that regard: NEVER stop praying and studying! Always do your best to please God. Trust in his grace, and live by the Spirit. I am so thankful for the Spirit for opening up my heart, and for allowing me to get closer and closer to God each day. Best wishes to you, and peace through the grace of our Savior!
@@revolutionofordinaries Wow! So you condone worship with instruments? A practice that wasn’t added until the 7th century. Leviticus 10 shows us how crucial worship is to get right. Nadab and Abihu suffered because they obtained fire from the wrong place. Does John 4:24 hold no weight? Does the pattern of the early church not matter? Or are we able to just add whatever we please to our worship?
Hello all from Florida. I have a question. I am a flower of Christ but do not go to church because i see anti biblical things being said, also this separation that prevents me from talking to people that are atheist or agnostic seems wrong to me. I have ministered to wickans and even was able to a satanist to accept a bible so that he may see for himself what God is all about. This fear that people have about talking to others outside of the "church" has to stop. Don't get me wrong, i like listening to pastors preach but i actually compare what they say to not only what the bible says but also to Jesus' personality and His mission, sadly i see lots of discrepancies. What do you recommend for a peraon like me that actually has used a concordance and both the Hebrew and Greek Lexicons and has seen discrepancies between the bible and what pastors teach?
Great question. We lived in Florida a long time. Great place and great people! I think it is important to be in a community of faith. To learn and grow together. To learn how to put up with people you would t normally have to put up with. In all Paul’s letters he uses plural “you” - “you are a temple of the Holy Spirit” we need each other. Don’t go any place that compromises your convictions but no church is perfect!
Hi Santiago! Hebrews 10:25 implores is not to neglect worshipping together. As far as differences in what the Holy Spirit has illuminated from scripture in your life and what preachers sometimes preach... What comes from the pulpit is not authoritative. Continue to study. Continue to allow the Spirit to guide your walk through scripture. Whatever light comes from the Spirit, we are commanded to walk in that light. Our responsibility is to uplift one another with love despite our disagreements. Blessings to you Santiago!
Man... I so hear what you're saying, Santiago! What a sad state of affairs we live in when the most important thing is "getting someone to come to church" instead of loving them. How can the first happen without the second? Why would it? Check out the film, "Becoming Truly Human" by Nathan Jacobs. It's on Amazon Prime I know. It's a good show of how I believe we should listen to and love people no matter where they are on their journey. We should see the image of Christ in ALL people! The Western, scholastic, Protestant churches have many amazing, loving, wonderful, Christians in them (Matt and many who comment here are proof!! - And God forbid I judge any Christian... or ANY person at all!!!) At the same time so much of what has been passed down since the Reformation has caused a lot of error - or shift - in how not only the Bible is understood but more so in how life as a Christian is lived. I attribute most of this to the "penal substitution" view of the atonement - which was not focused on in the way it is now until Anslem and Augustine. It puts the focus on sin in a way that makes us feel we must somehow earn God's Love; ironically because it makes it seem He gave His son IN ORDER to Love us instead of BECAUSE He Loved/Loves us! As Matthew Gallatin says in Part 5 of his "Pilgrims from Paradise" podcast; "Sola Scriptura And Philosophical Christianity"... “The death of Christ is not an appeasement of the Father’s indignation toward us. It does not purchase the Father’s love for us-love which He was somehow unable to give us until he restored his honor by heaping the punishment for our sins upon His son. No - Christ’s death, and even more so, His resurrection, accomplishes that which the Father, Son and Spirit have eternally, mutually desired-the end of human death, and the restoration of humanity to intimate participation in the life of the Trinity.” The message of The Gospel is the fulfilment of everything. In other words it is the fullness of the Athenian's idol worship as Paul preached to them... it is the fullness of Wicca, of Hinduism, of environmentalism, of politics, even of "nothingness!" It is what everyone needs and completes everything. I am wary to even comment this in fear that it comes across in any way other than I intent it. I pray that my intentions simply be null and void and that The Spirit of Peace Who is everywhere present and fills all things comes and abides in us all and does with us as He wills.
Innocent Green do not hesitate! This dialog is open and what the church needs! I may not completely agree with you, but I care about you and respect the fact that you are paying the price by learning and investigating. This is good food for thought that you bring to the table.
Denominate, simply means to take a name, which you don't find the early century. If there was a name for the movement it was called the Way, but this was a descriptive of following Christ. The Jews had names, Israel/Israelites, so having a name isn't the problem, but when dividing fro others based on certain ancellitory things, aside from Jesus. In the coC, we imagine and teach, that we in the blue are the same as those in the white, so we are the one true church. Unfortunately, churches aren't baptized into Christ, people are. The standard for being in the church, was being in Christ, not fulfilling certain church works. Great lesson.
I very much believe in real / proper spiritual gifts, and some of the things you mentioned here. However can you document for me the formerly , as you said, more abundant rolls women played in the early restoration movement. Document this and show it so that we're not just basing this on what you say. If this is true it could be liberating. But I would like to see the evidence that this is true , before we make it an issue, of the modern, 1950s Church. I don't see leading singing as a leadership role, but I would like to see evidence that this was a role shared by women in the past
It's a tightrope we must walk when preaching the one faith, one baptism, one body, etc. We must do it in love for both the lost and savedl. We must continue, through the Holy Spirit, to preach the New Testament truth and point out and resolve error, both nside and outside the church, in love, and take heed of pur own possible error at the same time. The wonderful "restoration" movement, emerging from the 2nd great awakening of the 1800s, was a "miracle" unfolding, evidenced by, among others, the availability of the names church of Christ, Christian church and disciples of Christ. This is not a rhetorical question: Are you aware of any other groups or "denominations" which preach the one immersion for forgiveness of sin? This, I think, was the greatest restoration of essential biblical tradition and truth, by the Holy Spirit, since the reformation and widespread publication of the Bible. None of us want to hear, at the Judgement, "I never knew you." Perhaps God will have more grace and mercy at the Final Judgement than we have authority to preach. Perhaps not. The restoration must continue to unfold. Let God have the final judgment by the things written in the books. Let the one Body continue to grow in Spirit, in truth and in love.
So what’s your point basically Christian denominations are okay with God and the church of Christ is really not the one true church of the New Testament?
Do we choose God or does God choose us? I'm of the mind that God chooses and its not my place to second guess. I know people who went to their graves not crossing the threshold of a church because of how they or a loved one was treated by church folk. Instead of love there can be great bitterness. Doesn't sound like the early church.
Texasjazzlover, I too struggle with baptism as a requirement and I am church of Christ. It is obvious that it throws God's grace into a works based contingency. What I do see however, is Jesus giving the command of baptism in Matthew 28 and the New Testament never referencing an un-baptized believer from that point forward within the church. This must speak to something. A requirement? I cannot imagine Acts 2:38 as Peter refuting the remainder of scripture.
Father Stephen Freeman speaks my mind well when he says, "One of the oddest thoughts to have crept its way into the Christian mind is the notion of what is 'necessary to salvation.'" I think the whole question of, "is baptism necessary for salvation?" reveals a lot about the difference in the tradition (c of C) I was brought up in and what the early Church Fathers say. It is certainly a question I used to struggle with too. But to answer it I believe you must first define what you mean by "salvation". The Western, Protestant view of salvation is much closer to Roman Catholicism than the historic view. (Though it would probably be better said than the "ancient Church" view since the current American Protestant view is certainly "historical". As Fr. Stephen De Young says, "It is more correct, however, to say that evangelical ecclesiology is supremely historical. It is an ecclesiology profoundly conditioned and generated by the particular history of the Protestant movement in Europe and then this country.") Salvation is more about a relationship than it is a direction or a destination. More importantly, salvation is a relationship more than it is a decision we make, or an acceptance of something Christ did. Salvation is something that is dynamic. Salvation is a relationship and intimacy with our Creator. Salvation is something internal; it is not something that "happens" to human beings. Salvation is not something that was simply "done" for man. It is not external to man. You don't "get" saved. Or as Fr. Michael Shanbour says in his (excellent) book, "Know the Faith," "Salvation is not a legal removal of guilt that entitles one to go to heaven when he dies. ... Salvation is a real union with God..." We may as well ask, "Is it necessary that I live with my wife to be married?" The answer is both yes and no. Depending on how "married" you want to be. Will there be those "in heaven" (better said, "enjoying God's Love") who were not baptised? Certainly the answer is yes. The thief on the cross is proof of that. But if I'm wanting to experience the fullness of the faith why would there be any reason that I wouldn't be baptized? A 50th wedding anniversary between a couple that HAS lived together in love will be much different than a married couple who didn't live together at all. 😁 St. Paul says: "Do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we should walk in newness of life." (Rom. 6:3-4). And Father Stephen Freeman (yes, I quote him a lot) says about that passage, "The realism of St. Paul’s teaching on Baptism is mystical realism (to coin a phrase). THESE waters become THOSE waters. THIS event becomes THAT event. THIS time is now THAT time. Christ’s death now becomes MY death. Christ’s resurrection now becomes MY resurrection." Here are two articles I quoted from that you may find helpful. blogs.ancientfaith.com/glory2godforallthings/2016/01/19/an-unnecessary-salvation/ blogs.ancientfaith.com/glory2godforallthings/2020/01/03/the-final-destruction-of-demons-holy-baptism/
@@Riserharnesssam the "faith vs works" debate is a relatively new one. Reformation on. There is obviously a synergy... but, "Synergy is properly seen as RESPONSE rather than WORK." ❤️🙏 blogs.ancientfaith.com/glory2godforallthings/2017/06/13/the-work-that-saves-2/
But in saying that you also realize that not every congregation is the same. There are some amazing ones out there. Since there is no denominational architecture, it is very difficult (impossible) to say they are all one way or another.
Come out from among them and be ye separate. Whatever God has not planted in word or deed (or is necessarily inferred) is man produced and is not from faith. If I use the definite article that is not sectarian. That is exclusionary. Sounds the same but it is not. Paul said these divisions are carnal. Is Christ divided? That was meant to be a rhetorical question from Paul. It is an exercise in futility for us to pretend that we can draw lines that God is going to recognize. We are told to be cautious about how we build onto the Church.
You know how the saying goes 'you need to talk for yourself' Don't be talking for a Christian and therefore you confusing others and bringing down Christians that know the truth
You use words that are not mentioned in scripture. There is no phrase used like, "Universal", "Branch of Christian Church". I understand your desire to be inclusive and you sound sincere. However, it doesn't hold up in scripture
I am sure you do as well. That doesn't make the point untrue. Words like "Bible" "Trinity" or even in your name on YT and of the congregation "Colony" - we all do that...the question isn't if the words are in the BIble but is what we are saying true?
My honest opinion is that it is but it isn't. The Churches of Christ try to be like the original Christians that you read about in the New Testament, but I see that often the independent congregations tend to inadvertently "denominationalize" with churches that are similar to them. It seems like GBN tends to be an ad hoc denomination.
Please explain how GBN is denominational? All GBN is, is a group of Christians funded solely by Christians for the purpose of “broadcasting” the gospel through several mediums. But please explain.
@@knowledgeeverything6890 They have a lot of influence over some churches of Christ. Denominations form when groups try to use their influence to consolidate power.
@@JoMamma0 How do they have “a lot of influence over churches”? I attend a congregation that recently had a speaker come who regularly speaks on GBN. In fact our preacher has been doing recordings with them for a while. GBN is funded by individual congregations for the purpose of “broadcasting” the word of God. If anything, GBN is “controlled” by the individual congregations. If GBN began veering from the truth, then GBN would suffer because congregations would pull their support from them. GBN holds no authority over any congregation. I can assure you that. All GBN is, as I said, is a group that “broadcasts” Gods word. That’s all. They hold ZERO authority over the churches. As the churches were organized in the first century and as the Bible tells us, the elders oversee the individual congregations. Titus 1:5-9. Acts 14:23.
I think it comes down to being humble. I think CoC's would have a lot more members if they weren't so busy dogging on other denominations instead of just going about their buisness. Let people come to them and let their doctrine (which is the closest to being correct that I can find of any "denomination") speak for itself. Just say we are trying to please God not say we are pleasing God.
That's a great point Cole and I appreciate you making it. We became more what we were against than what we were for and that isn't a path ahead. That's a path to death.
@@revolutionofordinaries This is my main issue, I guess. I call it Institutional arrogance. I mean, to "judge" yourselves as THE Church of Christ right on the sign? I just saw a video on Autopsy of a dead (dying?) church and I would recognize most in congregation. Wasn't "raised in the church" so ANY opinion I ever had was crushed under the "Elders" jack boots immediately. And Elders will have to die before they are replaced. Deacons too for that matter. Only thing I was ever asked (expected) to do was cut the grass. I work too many hours to even cut my own. Had retired folks that made more on their pensions and had better benefits than I have ever had in my entire 60 year life but they wouldn't DREAM of paying think it was 50 bucks twice a month back then. Wasn't like collection was light either. Anyway, every sermon has some version of those evil "other" Christians are the FIRST priority. I often think of quote goes something like is church supposed to be a hospital for sinners or an exclusive club for the Holier than thou. Practically all "new" members are either move-ins or transfers from another congregation that is even worse. Or that finally closed. All that said, know I ain't no saint and ain't never likely to be because I am MALE. But that is a whole separate issue.
@@wendellbabin6457 I believe that has been all too typical. There are churches that have improved but many are stuck in that mindset. God doesn't reproduce bad DNA. Those churches will eventually die and have no offspring to reproduce their bad theology.
How come the churches of Christ says is mandatory to take Lord supper once a week, when the Bible doesnt says you have to take the Lord supper every first day of week.
Need to do a welfare check. Hopefully you have not been exiled? The coc needs, more men like you. Someone who thinks deeply on the matter and questions everything, out of being true to scripture and conscience. This is and old video, but please keep asking yourself honest questions. I am not a member of the coc for similar reasons or exactly these reasons, well before this video.
Wow... It’s really sad that you have all of these people supporting you. Let me start here. The “church of Church” is exactly that. It is the church that belongs to Christ. That’s all. The Bible says that there is only one church and Christ is it’s head. Ephesians 4:4. Therefore, any other religious body that holds another man as its leader is caught in error. 1 Corinthians was mentioned in your video. How did Paul start his letter? By condemning their step toward a man becoming their leader. He started by condemning the division based off mans teachings. 1 Corinthians 1:5-10. Furthermore, Paul was writing to them to get the church at Corinth to turn from their ways. What would have happened if they would have not repented? They would have been condemned for their unfaithfulness. And you mention the churches in Revelation. Jesus tells us what happened when a body of people claiming to follow him doesn’t follow after his teachings. Revelation 3:16 tells us that Jesus will spew them out of his mouth. What else does Jesus say about those churches? He will remove their candlestick (Revelation 2:5). Please tell me what “denomination” out there seems to align themselves with the teachings found in the New Testament? One that teaches the biblical plan of salvation. One that holds true to the pattern of worship found in the early church. The “church of Christ” is a meaning, not a denominational header. One body of people could be called the church of God, the importance is the standing they find themselves in when compared to scripture. Yes, many under the label of “church of Christ” aren’t doing right. The name only doesn’t give you a free pass. I am disappointed you used very little scripture and much more of your opinion.
Were the Corinthians the Lord's church or were they not the Lord's church until they made the corrections Paul instructed? He calls them God's church in the first few verses and then goes on to address all kinds of craziness. If they weren't the perfect church before the instruction why did he correct so many things AND still consider them the Lord's church? There was no perfect first century church. There are ideals we should try to hold to but salvation is found in Christ not in a perfect church.
@@revolutionofordinaries We need to be precise in our definitions. Salvation is found in Christ. Meaning it is found in his body. Christ’s body is his church which was bought and paid for by his blood Ephesians 1:20-23. So when you say salvation is found only “in Christ” then what the Bible says is that being in “the church” is the same thing as being “in Christ”. Again, Paul starts his letter condemning denominationalism. What would have happened if Corinth had not changed their ways? They would have been lost! That’s the point. ANY religious body violating scripture is to be corrected. The problem with denominationalism is that even the fundamental teachings have been thrown out. Denominationalism has violated Paul’s command in 1 Corinthians 1. They have a man as their leaders. They don’t call themselves “Christians”, but “baptists” and “methodist” and “Pentecostal”. And the list goes on. They advocate instruction to salvation that is foreign to scripture and they worship is ways not found by the early church. The point isn’t that Corinth was consider the “lords church” but that Corinth was condemned for their behavior. Just as the churches in Revelation where Jesus tells them he will spew them out of his mouth and that he will remove their candlestick. The Bible is clear on this. The body of Christ is his church. Ephesians 4:4 tells us that only one church was founded by Christ. The word “denomination” means to divide. That means a man came in and started their own church with doctrine foreign to scripture. So, please tell me what “denomination” gets atleast the plan of salvation right. Lastly, you just said Jesus is perfect, not the church. I agree that that people in the church are not perfect, however, the church Jesus founded is perfect. It was founded by Christ. Hebrews 12:23 tells us why. Because it’s the ONLY church that can make man perfect or complete by allowing the forgiveness of sin.
So which CofC is the true church? One cup No Sunday school Head coverings Non-institutional WE have dozens of variations that divide and denominate us.
@@revolutionofordinaries Just as issues raised such as “once’s saved always saved” or “sinners prayer” each issue can be dealt with according by to context and scripture. Some issues aren’t necessarily salvation issues. Many are conscience issues. Issues like paul refers to in 1 Corinthians 8 can become stumbling blocks to others and not necessarily be worth fighting over. Again, each issue can be felt with. However, it is not these trivial issues that divide denominations. It is issues such as the deity of Christ, the plan of salvation, and others such as worship. Paul differentiates between these types of issues. But again, each issue can be addressed appropriately. That doesn’t mean each issue is one that is a salvation issue.
When we accept Christ, we become part of the Body of Christ, not a member like CoC denominations says. The Bible doesn't mention being a member like a social club, it says we become part of the body of Christ.
In watching your video you never once mentioned sin . Yes sin . If churches are not using the pattern in the new teatament that is not pleasing God. There must be three hundred thousand churches in the U.S . The way to heaven is through a narrow gate , and few be there that find it. The tradition of men in the churches today is not wanting to tell their congregation about sin. Jesus will save those who obey him. Hebrews 5:9
I don't know who told you what a denomination is, but the fact is that 'denomination' means a part of the whole thing. Now how many 'denominations' were there on the day of Pentacost when Peter preached that sermoin and about 3,000 were baptized? Jesus added those who were saved to the church. What church? What denomination? IOn order to have a denomination you have to have more than one, but there was only one. Jesus added the saved to His church. There is nothing in the scriptures about going to the church of your choice. Nothing whatsoever. How do you think Jesus feels about people choosing to be a part of a 'church' that He didn't build, some chgurch organized by mere men, rather than the one He built for those whom He saves? You can find the church that belongs to Christ by going and comparing what they do and believe with what the New Testament says we should do and believe. It is just that simple. Don't be fooled by a single one of the thousands of denominations men have developed, which by the way are always having babies. Jesus is the savior Have the basic courtesy to obey the gospel He died for in the same way that people did in New Testament days, and get into the church He built for you. Consider what may seem to be just a possibility to you now - He knows more about all this business than anyone else!
Let me correct that not look but sound liberal it don't sound like you're bringing sound doctrine because sound doctrine is healthy doctrine I don't know if you ever been around brothers that make you lose your appetite but I have. You're getting close to that because when I started hearing you my health started to decline
How about this for a definition? If you spend more time arguing with other denomination Christians than you do the "TOTALLY unchurched" (lost); then you belong to a denominations. I am no scripture quoter, but didn't even Jesus himself PREDICT this would happen? Doesn't that make it prophecy, then, for all intents and purposes? So why waste time arguing over commas? The "real first century church" didn't even HAVE Bibles to argue over, so why do we? More than enough problems just with translation alone. I would say about 50-50 split in my experience over sermons with some version of those heathen "other" Christians, "Happy Wife, Happy Life", women are perfect, men (especially husbands) are beyond redemption sermons. Then hand wring endlessly about why folks are leaving while Rome is burning. All while lighting the firebombs. HA!
There’s just one way to the pearly gate, to the crown of life and the friends who wait. Tis that old cross road and the way called strait, there’s just one way to the pearly gate. “There’s Only One Provider”
locally autonomous.....which means if one is teaching a false doctrine, such as marriage, divorce and remarriage....there is no oversight group to police that false teaching....
We are a denomination in a sense that we are separated from the what is called “Christians”. We did not make our own rules. We simply follow what the Bible says. Visit the small churches in the Philippines. That’s what they do.
This may not be the channel for you if you think that. There is no false teaching or blasphemy going on. You need to study what those words mean before you use them in public.
Finally someone addressing these issues, biblically and rationally. Kudos
Thanks Charles! I hope you will poke around the channel a bit...lots more to chew on! Appreciate your comment.
Requiring re-baptism to 'join'. That speaks of the 'True Church' mentality that is rampant throughout Christendom.
There are different views on that. More open minded churches of Christ won't require that.
Mark, what you said in the video is something that I've thought for very long time but I kept it to myself. Even after becoming a elder in the Lord's body for a short period of time, I kept it to myself. The church is so far away from what the Lord intended it to be. We have made ourselves a denomination. We are governed by a school of thought from people in the 40s, the '50s, the '60s and it seems to be more about power control than anything else. Very little is truly about God's ability to save wretched souls. It's so amazing how if you don't follow the exact same steps that the Church of Christ congregation on the south side of town is doing. Your local body is considered progressive. Some congregations sadden me some school of thoughts infuriate me. But what you said in this video needs to be shouted from the highest mountain so that every woman, man and child can hear it. God loves us all and he wishes that no one would be lost, but all would come to the belief to the understanding to the knowledge of the depth of his love. How dare someone say that they truly love Christ and withhold water saving water from someone else. The church in America and where Americans go and teach seems to be teaching a divided body, a divided Christ and it's sad.
Thank you for opening up on that from your experience. You are spot on.
Any group that can be identified by its boundaries is a "denominated" group, or a denomination. It is what it is; I haven't lost any sleep over it in decades.
th-cam.com/video/zvDlou3AGpc/w-d-xo.html
Amen. Amen. Amen.
This is the first video of yours that I found. I subscribed at 2 minutes in. Love this brother. Please keep this up.
I've been having these thoughts, and perhaps it's partly due to the fact I came out of the Baptist denomination, but when I gave my life to to Christ and started looking for truth, looking for the True Church, I found the Restoration movement wonderful.
That said it just doesn't seem to be holding up to it's own ideals as you say, I'm entering ministry myself, part of me hopes I can maybe make a change.
God bless you on that journey Cullen! You are not alone!
I am not a COCer, but Matt, you got this lesson straight from God, whether you realize it or not! I pray this reaches all COC congregations as it will surely point many back to the better path and my friends can recognize me as a brother. Its all about who God recognizes as a child of God, not the COC. Romans 8:9, Romans 8:16, Eph 1:13-14 Galatians 3:1-3
Thank you!
My understanding to be in the "True Church of Christ" is to believe, repent, confess, be baptized for the remissions of your sins, and be faithful. To be faithful means to do the will of the Father.
@Donnie Jax Nope. No man is perfect. If they were perfect then Christ would not have died for us.
If a Christian does sin, if they repent of the sin, ask for forgiveness with a Godly sorrow, and turn from that sin, you will be forgiven.
This applies to being faithful as well. However if one makes a habit of not being faithful then that will lead to what the Hebrew writer wrote.
Heb. 10:26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Or as Paul wrote in Romans (paraphrased) "Shall we go on sinning, may it never be."
@junkyarddog A denomination definition is to be a part of the whole. The Church of Christ strives to be the original Church that was started on the Day of Pentecost. Not just the parts that suits man's desire.
@junkyarddog I've been in it for years myself. I've found that it is not a denomination, not from what I've been told but from my own studies.
It's not dead, it's not legalistic since there is law in the New Testament, Romans 1 for example.
Narrow minded I am sure that there are those, but there are those who study the scriptures constantly to ensure what they believe is correct. I teach a group that we discuss the scriptures on average once a week.
What makes you think it is a sect, which it isn't, or a denomination, which again it isn't?
Just exactly like he said You are definitely a denomination! With several false doctrines!
@@EverlastingLife-pl9ug As i have stated to others. The Church of Christ is not the church of the world. The Church of Christ is a spiritual Church made up of a body of true believers. It follows the teachings of Christ.
Anyone can put up a sign that says they are the Church of Christ. If they don't follow what Christ taught, then they aren't a denomination, they aren't part of the Church of Christ.
Just like the person who posted the video to TH-cam, both of you need to learn what Christ was talking about when it came to the Church.
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! I LOVE YOU MATT! THANK YOU FOR ARTICULATING THIS. GOD BLESS YOU AND THIS MINISTRY!
Thank you for your encouragement! I appreciate you!
I’ve been saying these very things for a long time and I have had well meaning brothers and sisters look at me like I have three heads. As a good friend mine says.... “A fish doesn’t know it’s wet.”
Yes indeed! I am sure this one upset a few people.
In regards to what the speaker pointed out, He is off about the CHURCH OF CHRIST not being the 1 and only true Church. He is off in saying that the COC has been denominatidonalize. There’s 5 things that a person must do in order to be in CHRIST (a Christian). You must do these 5 biblical steps in order to become a Christian:
1.) Hear
2.) Believe
3.) Repent
4.) Confess
5.) Be Baptized
What the speaker failed to bring to the table is that the CHURCH OF CHRIST is unique in that it’s the only church that adapts this correct, biblical formula for salvation. No other church adhere to these steps in their doctrine for salvation. How then can the other churches be within the realms of salvation when they teach the sinner prayer, when they “X” out baptism and in some cases accepts sprinkling for salvation? Most importantly they are just flat out ignorant of what the basic, simple gospel is which, is that:
1.) Jesus died for our sins
2.) Was buried
3.) & Rose again
9 times out of 10 if you ask a denominational pastor or leader what the gospel is you’ll get a totally different answer. That’s unfortunate because the you’re saved if you keep the gospel in remembrance as Paul mentioned. How then can the denomination be saved without the correct teachings for salvation?
So in essence, the Church of Christ is the the 1 and only true church chiefly because they are the only ones who teaches the keys 🔑 for salvation which is through the gospel! Now how the COC conducts themselves after the obedience of the gospel does factor in as the speaker mentioned in the video. Nevertheless, as he and Paul mentioned, they are still the CHURCH OF GOD/CHURCH but have to make the necessary adjustments in order to be in good standings with God and to be able to remain on the road to salvation.👍🏿
Straw men are quite easy to defeat. I appreciate the time and thought you out into your comment. The issue is you are painting a billion people in monochrome. It isn’t really a fair summation. Do you really believe all but 1 million people who call themselves Christians don’t understand Jesus died, was buried and raised? Lots of other issues in your comment but let’s start there. Please back up your point that only the CofC gets the DBR of Jesus.
@@revolutionofordinaries Greetings sorry for the late response! I’ve been watching quite a few of your videos and I believe that every COC elder/leader can learn scores of profitable information that you lay out! I’m in agreement with a lot of your teachings my friend! I just wanted to point that out!
To answer your question it’s one thing to believe in the DBR of Jesus and it’s another to be able to identify it as the gospel and to teach it as well. Else you’ll be teaching something in vain if you don’t know what the gospel is . How can you teach the gospel when you don’t know what the gospel is in particular? Most people who believes the DBR don’t know that the DBR is the gospel. Again, I challenge you to do a brief survey of professing believers of Christ, just ask like 3 of them; ask them what the gospel is and they will not say it’s the DBR of Christ. 9 times out of 10 you will get a totally different answer.
So in essence,! if you don’t know what the DBR is how then can you fulfill the great commission which is to go out into the world and preach the gospel when you don’t know what the gospel is. He that believes the gospel and is baptized shall be saved. The gospel is all about Christ and that’s where God chooses to put the saving power which is through the belief of the DBR of his son. The gospel saves 1 Corinthians 15:2 and if you don’t know what the gospel consist of in particularly you can’t fulfill the great commission.
Paul says not only believe the gospel, but stand on it or you have believed in vain. I’m thinking there were a few people in Corinth not standing on the gospel, what do think?
It only takes one word and about .5 seconds to answer that question. “Yes”.
Good point.
You have hit the nail on the head we have denominationalized ourselves. Thanks for this video. Also let me add Ouch!
Love it. Ouch to me too!
Love it. Ouch to me too!
Another Great video!!
I would imagine you will get some negative feedback from traditional teaching groups. No offense intended I grew up that way. But does it Really hold to how Jesus lived n taught?
Many times no. We have good intentions but gotten off in the weeds too deeply many times.Really refreshing Thank You so much. God Bless
So so true. I agree. Well intended but sometimes adrift.
The New Testament church had problems with lack of Godly living and observance of false doctrie. This is one of the reasons why the apostles and other church leaders wrote (inspired by the HS) most of the NT. So, the writers of the NT consistently sought to educate and redirect. In short, they distinguished between truth and falsity. There is a right way! This way identifies the church that Jesus established. Therefore, those who have been added to the body of Christ need to be faithful to the doctrine and way of living that Jesus has imparted. We need to spend time studying, understanding, and practicing the teachings of Christ.
Brother, I am not naive. It is obvious that many congregations have the tendency to be legalistic. For this reason, I am grateful to God for autonomy and mature/Spirit led leadership. I hope you understand that Jesus did establish one church and that there is one way people are able to be added to that church (we don't need the restoration movement to understand this, it is clearly taught in the Bible). Now, does this fact give us the right to condem those who have followed different ways of becoming a Christian? Of course not! But I would hope that we can lovenly share with others what the New Testament teaches. May I remind you that even if we wanted to, the Bible doesn't teach anything about the sinners' prayer, infant baptism, "once saved-always saved", etc. So, we should be asking ourselves, where do we draw the line? I hope we let the Bible draw the line! I pray God gives you wisdom to correctly influence those who you minister. Blessings.
So there are other ways to become a Christian??
@@respectingthewordpodcast I'm sorry for my delayed response. The book of Acts describes how the Gospel of Jesus Christ was preached in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and Samaria, and as far as the remotest part of the earth. The preaching of this Gospel resulted in the establishment of the church that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 16:18. The apostles and those who became followers of Christ preached only one Gospel (Galatians 1:9). It is this Gospel that frees sinners from condemnation (John 3:16-17, Romans 6:1-13). Obedience to this Gospel indicates our allegiance to our Lord Jesus Christ. Of course, obedience to the Gospel doesn't only encompass that by faith; a person repents, confesses, and be baptized into Jesus Christ. That is only the beginning of a process of transformation to become more like Jesus (Romans 12:1-2). Brother, we are not here in this world to or anyone's religion; we are here to share the true Gospel of Jesus Christ in a wise and loving way. We are here to imitate our Savior and Teacher. We are here to glorify God in everything we do. I am glad that you and I have a way of knowing what the Gospel of Christ is and how to glorify God. It is my prayer that we both continue to grow in these areas. Blessings.
@germanabarca4817 what denomination are you in??
Lovingly and wonderfully said. I'll say again, if I'd had this sort of clear, unbiased, loving teachings in college I believe my journey would've been much smoother!
One thing that was so amazing when I begun to investigate the Eastern Orthodox Church was that they (we) absolutely believe the Orthodox Church is THE Church (why be part of one that you didn't believe that of?!) but the circle we would draw would include everyone else who ends up "in heaven" (or better said enjoying God's Love in all eternity) as inside that circle. As I often hear, "We know where the Church is... we don't know where it isn't."
As Father Andrew Stephen Damick recently said, "I think there is a temptation to sort of want to make these things mentally easy, to identify church membership with salvation, to say if you formally belong to a certain body that in the end you will be in heaven when you die, and from an Orthodox point of view, that’s simply not true. Human life, human existence, is very dynamic, and therefore any group that has humans as its main constituent is also going to be dynamic. It is possible to be in one day and out the next. It is possible; it certainly is possible. While Orthodox Christians would identify the Orthodox Church as being that Church that Christ founded, uniquely that Church, at the same time, we would not say that if you are not at this moment formally part of that Church that you are going to hell. We do not know that."
www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/aftoday/who_is_a_christian
Growth comes through the struggle!
@@revolutionofordinaries Amen! Like the lyrics of one of my favorite songs from The Indigo Girls ("The Wood Song") says...
==========
No way construction of this tricky plan
Was built by other than a greater hand
With a love that passes all out understanding
Watching closely over the journey
Yeah but what it takes to cross the great divide
Seems more than all the courage I can muster up inside
Although we get to have some answers when we reach the other side
The prize is always worth the rocky ride
But the wood is tired and the wood is old
And we'll make it fine if the weather holds
But if the weather holds we'll have missed the point
That's where I need to go
One knows if one is saved. When we don't know is when we drift from the teachings of Chrsit and the Apostles.
If one is baptized (immersed) for the remissions of their sins, and they are faithful, unto death, then they absolutely know.
As a matter of fact, Jesus said in Mark 16:16 how to know if you are saved or not.
This guy is spot on... and is clearly describing the arrogance of CoCs that have lead to extremely stagnant numbers in the past 10-20yrs, and also less and less young people continuing on in CoCs. There is too much information in this age for these tactics to continue to be effective. CoCs through “pattern theology” have indirectly taught that our assurance and confidence is found in those traditions and teachings NOT in the finished work of Christ...in saying that though, there are many many brothers and sisters that I love and cherish in the CoCs that show the fruit of living for Jesus
Thanks JDR...so glad you found the video and that it resonates with you. What is your relationship with the CofC?
I spent the first 35 of my 38 yrs in 2 different CoCs. My early childhood years were in what some would call a “anti” type or ultra conservative, then after a split (which all CoC folks know about), my parents along with a few other families started a different CoC that is still going today...I’ve seen you comment on church planting before and I agree wholeheartedly. CoCs never plant churches b/c they constantly split from existing churches over disagreements (usually dogma related). I live in one of the smallest counties in Alabama and there are close to 60 different CoC congregations!! How is that reflecting the 1st century church?? Peter didn’t write to 50 some odd separate, distinct groups of exiles. CoCs have missed the mark on this but I totally see why when all of our confidence is in “knowing the Bible”. We train our young folks to combat other denominations more than combating the adversary that Eph6 describes. There’s no wonder we are so arrogant when so much effort is spent on our “uniqueness “....hate to ramble here, but this is extremely serious stuff. I got baptized when I was 14 cause all I ever heard from adults including my parents was “ you need to be thinking about getting baptized “ not you need to be thinking about Christ’s substitutionary atonement for my sins, that he did 100% out of love and obedience to the Father. When I “got baptized” or “obeyed the gospel “ or whatever we want to call it, I just got wet out of peer pressure and there was no transformative work going on in my spiritual condition... Thank God Almighty for His patience and grace that 20 yrs after this He drew me near and I surrendered my life to Him, and I know without a shadow of doubt that I am His....thank you for these videos
I’m amazed that you are COC and as objective as you are. Many of the things you’ve said are reasons why I left the COC. The Word says that Jesus is the judge(not that we can’t). Jesus though will judge who is in and who is out not us. Jesus was given all power and authority not the bride. I feel that the COC has tried usurp that authority from Christ.
I am so glad you found the video and the channel. I would love to get your feedback on more of the videos. I appreciate you!
Excellent video! I was third generation Church Of Christ. Until I was about 38 years old. I am now 47 and still struggle with the traditions I was taught. I am very happy in the church I am in now. But they do have instruments. Even though I am full of the Holy Spirit and have now learned what that means, and I have learned more in the past ten years then ever before, there is still the echo in the back of my head that I could be doing something wrong.
I am glad you have found your place in the kingdom! Many blessings to you Stacie!
Stacie Messner Sister... I am so thankful for you! I am too for the first time in my life finding the Spirit. It breaks my heart because the church today is so void of the Spirit.. We have become pharisaical in everything we do, and I have been trying my best to preach grace, and praying that God will open their hearts to understand that God’s grace is truly the only thing that can save us. Our “law keeping” does not justify us, it is only Christ. I too, on this journey have the occasional feeling of wanting to revert to my old thoughts for the security of being “safe.” Here is my advice in that regard: NEVER stop praying and studying! Always do your best to please God. Trust in his grace, and live by the Spirit. I am so thankful for the Spirit for opening up my heart, and for allowing me to get closer and closer to God each day. Best wishes to you, and peace through the grace of our Savior!
Stacie Messner Can you tell me what being full of the Holy Spirit means?
@@revolutionofordinaries Wow! So you condone worship with instruments? A practice that wasn’t added until the 7th century. Leviticus 10 shows us how crucial worship is to get right. Nadab and Abihu suffered because they obtained fire from the wrong place. Does John 4:24 hold no weight? Does the pattern of the early church not matter? Or are we able to just add whatever we please to our worship?
@@lindahutchens8612 I second that question. Perhaps some verses and examples from scripture?
Hello all from Florida. I have a question. I am a flower of Christ but do not go to church because i see anti biblical things being said, also this separation that prevents me from talking to people that are atheist or agnostic seems wrong to me. I have ministered to wickans and even was able to a satanist to accept a bible so that he may see for himself what God is all about. This fear that people have about talking to others outside of the "church" has to stop. Don't get me wrong, i like listening to pastors preach but i actually compare what they say to not only what the bible says but also to Jesus' personality and His mission, sadly i see lots of discrepancies. What do you recommend for a peraon like me that actually has used a concordance and both the Hebrew and Greek Lexicons and has seen discrepancies between the bible and what pastors teach?
Great question. We lived in Florida a long time. Great place and great people! I think it is important to be in a community of faith. To learn and grow together. To learn how to put up with people you would t normally have to put up with. In all Paul’s letters he uses plural “you” - “you are a temple of the Holy Spirit” we need each other. Don’t go any place that compromises your convictions but no church is perfect!
Hi Santiago! Hebrews 10:25 implores is not to neglect worshipping together. As far as differences in what the Holy Spirit has illuminated from scripture in your life and what preachers sometimes preach... What comes from the pulpit is not authoritative. Continue to study. Continue to allow the Spirit to guide your walk through scripture. Whatever light comes from the Spirit, we are commanded to walk in that light. Our responsibility is to uplift one another with love despite our disagreements. Blessings to you Santiago!
Man... I so hear what you're saying, Santiago! What a sad state of affairs we live in when the most important thing is "getting someone to come to church" instead of loving them. How can the first happen without the second? Why would it?
Check out the film, "Becoming Truly Human" by Nathan Jacobs. It's on Amazon Prime I know. It's a good show of how I believe we should listen to and love people no matter where they are on their journey. We should see the image of Christ in ALL people!
The Western, scholastic, Protestant churches have many amazing, loving, wonderful, Christians in them (Matt and many who comment here are proof!! - And God forbid I judge any Christian... or ANY person at all!!!) At the same time so much of what has been passed down since the Reformation has caused a lot of error - or shift - in how not only the Bible is understood but more so in how life as a Christian is lived. I attribute most of this to the "penal substitution" view of the atonement - which was not focused on in the way it is now until Anslem and Augustine. It puts the focus on sin in a way that makes us feel we must somehow earn God's Love; ironically because it makes it seem He gave His son IN ORDER to Love us instead of BECAUSE He Loved/Loves us!
As Matthew Gallatin says in Part 5 of his "Pilgrims from Paradise" podcast; "Sola Scriptura And Philosophical Christianity"...
“The death of Christ is not an appeasement of the Father’s indignation toward us. It does not purchase the Father’s love for us-love which He was somehow unable to give us until he restored his honor by heaping the punishment for our sins upon His son. No - Christ’s death, and even more so, His resurrection, accomplishes that which the Father, Son and Spirit have eternally, mutually desired-the end of human death, and the restoration of humanity to intimate participation in the life of the Trinity.”
The message of The Gospel is the fulfilment of everything. In other words it is the fullness of the Athenian's idol worship as Paul preached to them... it is the fullness of Wicca, of Hinduism, of environmentalism, of politics, even of "nothingness!" It is what everyone needs and completes everything.
I am wary to even comment this in fear that it comes across in any way other than I intent it. I pray that my intentions simply be null and void and that The Spirit of Peace Who is everywhere present and fills all things comes and abides in us all and does with us as He wills.
Innocent Green do not hesitate! This dialog is open and what the church needs! I may not completely agree with you, but I care about you and respect the fact that you are paying the price by learning and investigating. This is good food for thought that you bring to the table.
@@Riserharnesssam thank you so much, brother! Glory to God! ❤️🙏
Denominate, simply means to take a name, which you don't find the early century. If there was a name for the movement it was called the Way, but this was a descriptive of following Christ. The Jews had names, Israel/Israelites, so having a name isn't the problem, but when dividing fro others based on certain ancellitory things, aside from Jesus.
In the coC, we imagine and teach, that we in the blue are the same as those in the white, so we are the one true church.
Unfortunately, churches aren't baptized into Christ, people are. The standard for being in the church, was being in Christ, not fulfilling certain church works.
Great lesson.
Great points my brother.
If you have not been added to the body of Christ by responding to the message of Christ, matters not the details that follow.
I very much believe in real / proper spiritual gifts, and some of the things you mentioned here. However can you document for me the formerly , as you said, more abundant rolls women played in the early restoration movement. Document this and show it so that we're not just basing this on what you say. If this is true it could be liberating. But I would like to see the evidence that this is true , before we make it an issue, of the modern, 1950s Church. I don't see leading singing as a leadership role, but I would like to see evidence that this was a role shared by women in the past
Very easy... The church is those whose names are written in the lamb's book of life.
It's a tightrope we must walk when preaching the one faith, one baptism, one body, etc. We must do it in love for both the lost and savedl. We must continue, through the Holy Spirit, to preach the New Testament truth and point out and resolve error, both nside and outside the church, in love, and take heed of pur own possible error at the same time. The wonderful "restoration" movement, emerging from the 2nd great awakening of the 1800s, was a "miracle" unfolding, evidenced by, among others, the availability of the names church of Christ, Christian church and disciples of Christ. This is not a rhetorical question: Are you aware of any other groups or "denominations" which preach the one immersion for forgiveness of sin? This, I think, was the greatest restoration of essential biblical tradition and truth, by the Holy Spirit, since the reformation and widespread publication of the Bible. None of us want to hear, at the Judgement, "I never knew you." Perhaps God will have more grace and mercy at the Final Judgement than we have authority to preach. Perhaps not. The restoration must continue to unfold. Let God have the final judgment by the things written in the books. Let the one Body continue to grow in Spirit, in truth and in love.
So what’s your point basically Christian denominations are okay with God and the church of Christ is really not the one true church of the New Testament?
Do we choose God or does God choose us? I'm of the mind that God chooses and its not my place to second guess. I know people who went to their graves not crossing the threshold of a church because of how they or a loved one was treated by church folk. Instead of love there can be great bitterness. Doesn't sound like the early church.
Sad.
Comment on if you feel in order to be a child of God, one must be baptized and has declared Jesus is the Son of God.
Check back a few videos on the baptism video. Thanks!
Texasjazzlover, I too struggle with baptism as a requirement and I am church of Christ. It is obvious that it throws God's grace into a works based contingency. What I do see however, is Jesus giving the command of baptism in Matthew 28 and the New Testament never referencing an un-baptized believer from that point forward within the church. This must speak to something. A requirement? I cannot imagine Acts 2:38 as Peter refuting the remainder of scripture.
Father Stephen Freeman speaks my mind well when he says, "One of the oddest thoughts to have crept its way into the Christian mind is the notion of what is 'necessary to salvation.'"
I think the whole question of, "is baptism necessary for salvation?" reveals a lot about the difference in the tradition (c of C) I was brought up in and what the early Church Fathers say. It is certainly a question I used to struggle with too. But to answer it I believe you must first define what you mean by "salvation". The Western, Protestant view of salvation is much closer to Roman Catholicism than the historic view.
(Though it would probably be better said than the "ancient Church" view since the current American Protestant view is certainly "historical". As Fr. Stephen De Young says, "It is more correct, however, to say that evangelical ecclesiology is supremely historical. It is an ecclesiology profoundly conditioned and generated by the particular history of the Protestant movement in Europe and then this country.")
Salvation is more about a relationship than it is a direction or a destination. More importantly, salvation is a relationship more than it is a decision we make, or an acceptance of something Christ did. Salvation is something that is dynamic. Salvation is a relationship and intimacy with our Creator. Salvation is something internal; it is not something that "happens" to human beings. Salvation is not something that was simply "done" for man. It is not external to man. You don't "get" saved.
Or as Fr. Michael Shanbour says in his (excellent) book, "Know the Faith," "Salvation is not a legal removal of guilt that entitles one to go to heaven when he dies. ... Salvation is a real union with God..."
We may as well ask, "Is it necessary that I live with my wife to be married?"
The answer is both yes and no. Depending on how "married" you want to be.
Will there be those "in heaven" (better said, "enjoying God's Love") who were not baptised? Certainly the answer is yes. The thief on the cross is proof of that. But if I'm wanting to experience the fullness of the faith why would there be any reason that I wouldn't be baptized?
A 50th wedding anniversary between a couple that HAS lived together in love will be much different than a married couple who didn't live together at all. 😁
St. Paul says: "Do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we should walk in newness of life." (Rom. 6:3-4).
And Father Stephen Freeman (yes, I quote him a lot) says about that passage, "The realism of St. Paul’s teaching on Baptism is mystical realism (to coin a phrase). THESE waters become THOSE waters. THIS event becomes THAT event. THIS time is now THAT time. Christ’s death now becomes MY death. Christ’s resurrection now becomes MY resurrection."
Here are two articles I quoted from that you may find helpful.
blogs.ancientfaith.com/glory2godforallthings/2016/01/19/an-unnecessary-salvation/
blogs.ancientfaith.com/glory2godforallthings/2020/01/03/the-final-destruction-of-demons-holy-baptism/
@@Riserharnesssam the "faith vs works" debate is a relatively new one. Reformation on. There is obviously a synergy... but, "Synergy is properly seen as RESPONSE rather than WORK." ❤️🙏
blogs.ancientfaith.com/glory2godforallthings/2017/06/13/the-work-that-saves-2/
Thank you! You covered so much of what makes the CoC distasteful to other Christians. Well done
But in saying that you also realize that not every congregation is the same. There are some amazing ones out there. Since there is no denominational architecture, it is very difficult (impossible) to say they are all one way or another.
This was wonderfully said
Thank you!
Come out from among them and be ye separate. Whatever God has not planted in word or deed (or is necessarily inferred) is man produced and is not from faith. If I use the definite article that is not sectarian. That is exclusionary. Sounds the same but it is not. Paul said these divisions are carnal. Is Christ divided? That was meant to be a rhetorical question from Paul. It is an exercise in futility for us to pretend that we can draw lines that God is going to recognize. We are told to be cautious about how we build onto the Church.
You know how the saying goes 'you need to talk for yourself' Don't be talking for a Christian and therefore you confusing others and bringing down Christians that know the truth
Jesus also had sectarian issues just look at Mark 9:38-42. It’s the truth.
Well said!
You use words that are not mentioned in scripture. There is no phrase used like, "Universal", "Branch of Christian Church". I understand your desire to be inclusive and you sound sincere. However, it doesn't hold up in scripture
I am sure you do as well. That doesn't make the point untrue. Words like "Bible" "Trinity" or even in your name on YT and of the congregation "Colony" - we all do that...the question isn't if the words are in the BIble but is what we are saying true?
Thanks for stopping by! Dissenting opinions are welcome.
My honest opinion is that it is but it isn't. The Churches of Christ try to be like the original Christians that you read about in the New Testament, but I see that often the independent congregations tend to inadvertently "denominationalize" with churches that are similar to them.
It seems like GBN tends to be an ad hoc denomination.
Please explain how GBN is denominational? All GBN is, is a group of Christians funded solely by Christians for the purpose of “broadcasting” the gospel through several mediums. But please explain.
@@knowledgeeverything6890 They have a lot of influence over some churches of Christ. Denominations form when groups try to use their influence to consolidate power.
@@JoMamma0 How do they have “a lot of influence over churches”? I attend a congregation that recently had a speaker come who regularly speaks on GBN. In fact our preacher has been doing recordings with them for a while. GBN is funded by individual congregations for the purpose of “broadcasting” the word of God. If anything, GBN is “controlled” by the individual congregations. If GBN began veering from the truth, then GBN would suffer because congregations would pull their support from them. GBN holds no authority over any congregation. I can assure you that. All GBN is, as I said, is a group that “broadcasts” Gods word. That’s all. They hold ZERO authority over the churches. As the churches were organized in the first century and as the Bible tells us, the elders oversee the individual congregations. Titus 1:5-9. Acts 14:23.
@@knowledgeeverything6890 that's good, Im glad I was wrong about that.
I think it comes down to being humble. I think CoC's would have a lot more members if they weren't so busy dogging on other denominations instead of just going about their buisness. Let people come to them and let their doctrine (which is the closest to being correct that I can find of any "denomination") speak for itself. Just say we are trying to please God not say we are pleasing God.
That's a great point Cole and I appreciate you making it. We became more what we were against than what we were for and that isn't a path ahead. That's a path to death.
@@revolutionofordinaries This is my main issue, I guess. I call it Institutional arrogance. I mean, to "judge" yourselves as THE Church of Christ right on the sign?
I just saw a video on Autopsy of a dead (dying?) church and I would recognize most in congregation. Wasn't "raised in the church" so ANY opinion I ever had was crushed under the "Elders" jack boots immediately. And Elders will have to die before they are replaced. Deacons too for that matter. Only thing I was ever asked (expected) to do was cut the grass. I work too many hours to even cut my own. Had retired folks that made more on their pensions and had better benefits than I have ever had in my entire 60 year life but they wouldn't DREAM of paying think it was 50 bucks twice a month back then. Wasn't like collection was light either.
Anyway, every sermon has some version of those evil "other" Christians are the FIRST priority.
I often think of quote goes something like is church supposed to be a hospital for sinners or an exclusive club for the Holier than thou.
Practically all "new" members are either move-ins or transfers from another congregation that is even worse. Or that finally closed.
All that said, know I ain't no saint and ain't never likely to be because I am MALE.
But that is a whole separate issue.
@@wendellbabin6457 I believe that has been all too typical. There are churches that have improved but many are stuck in that mindset.
God doesn't reproduce bad DNA. Those churches will eventually die and have no offspring to reproduce their bad theology.
Is there any people from Minnesota, let me know.
How come the churches of Christ says is mandatory to take Lord supper once a week, when the Bible doesnt says you have to take the Lord supper every first day of week.
Great video.
Thank you so much Corey! I really appreciate you going out of your way to leave a comment...God bless you!
Does the church save us or faith in Christ, saved by grace through faith only. What your describing is religion. Jesus only not Jesus plus.
Many struggle with that including the Church of Christ. Jesus saves. The CofC made the church save in many instances.
Need to do a welfare check. Hopefully you have not been exiled? The coc needs, more men like you. Someone who thinks deeply on the matter and questions everything, out of being true to scripture and conscience. This is and old video, but please keep asking yourself honest questions. I am not a member of the coc for similar reasons or exactly these reasons, well before this video.
Thank you! Alive and well!!!
Wow... It’s really sad that you have all of these people supporting you. Let me start here. The “church of Church” is exactly that. It is the church that belongs to Christ. That’s all. The Bible says that there is only one church and Christ is it’s head. Ephesians 4:4. Therefore, any other religious body that holds another man as its leader is caught in error. 1 Corinthians was mentioned in your video. How did Paul start his letter? By condemning their step toward a man becoming their leader. He started by condemning the division based off mans teachings. 1 Corinthians 1:5-10. Furthermore, Paul was writing to them to get the church at Corinth to turn from their ways. What would have happened if they would have not repented? They would have been condemned for their unfaithfulness. And you mention the churches in Revelation. Jesus tells us what happened when a body of people claiming to follow him doesn’t follow after his teachings. Revelation 3:16 tells us that Jesus will spew them out of his mouth. What else does Jesus say about those churches? He will remove their candlestick (Revelation 2:5). Please tell me what “denomination” out there seems to align themselves with the teachings found in the New Testament? One that teaches the biblical plan of salvation. One that holds true to the pattern of worship found in the early church. The “church of Christ” is a meaning, not a denominational header. One body of people could be called the church of God, the importance is the standing they find themselves in when compared to scripture. Yes, many under the label of “church of Christ” aren’t doing right. The name only doesn’t give you a free pass. I am disappointed you used very little scripture and much more of your opinion.
Were the Corinthians the Lord's church or were they not the Lord's church until they made the corrections Paul instructed? He calls them God's church in the first few verses and then goes on to address all kinds of craziness. If they weren't the perfect church before the instruction why did he correct so many things AND still consider them the Lord's church? There was no perfect first century church. There are ideals we should try to hold to but salvation is found in Christ not in a perfect church.
@@revolutionofordinaries We need to be precise in our definitions. Salvation is found in Christ. Meaning it is found in his body. Christ’s body is his church which was bought and paid for by his blood Ephesians 1:20-23. So when you say salvation is found only “in Christ” then what the Bible says is that being in “the church” is the same thing as being “in Christ”. Again, Paul starts his letter condemning denominationalism. What would have happened if Corinth had not changed their ways? They would have been lost! That’s the point. ANY religious body violating scripture is to be corrected. The problem with denominationalism is that even the fundamental teachings have been thrown out. Denominationalism has violated Paul’s command in 1 Corinthians 1. They have a man as their leaders. They don’t call themselves “Christians”, but “baptists” and “methodist” and “Pentecostal”. And the list goes on. They advocate instruction to salvation that is foreign to scripture and they worship is ways not found by the early church. The point isn’t that Corinth was consider the “lords church” but that Corinth was condemned for their behavior. Just as the churches in Revelation where Jesus tells them he will spew them out of his mouth and that he will remove their candlestick. The Bible is clear on this. The body of Christ is his church. Ephesians 4:4 tells us that only one church was founded by Christ. The word “denomination” means to divide. That means a man came in and started their own church with doctrine foreign to scripture. So, please tell me what “denomination” gets atleast the plan of salvation right. Lastly, you just said Jesus is perfect, not the church. I agree that that people in the church are not perfect, however, the church Jesus founded is perfect. It was founded by Christ. Hebrews 12:23 tells us why. Because it’s the ONLY church that can make man perfect or complete by allowing the forgiveness of sin.
So which CofC is the true church?
One cup
No Sunday school
Head coverings
Non-institutional
WE have dozens of variations that divide and denominate us.
@@revolutionofordinaries Just as issues raised such as “once’s saved always saved” or “sinners prayer” each issue can be dealt with according by to context and scripture. Some issues aren’t necessarily salvation issues. Many are conscience issues. Issues like paul refers to in 1 Corinthians 8 can become stumbling blocks to others and not necessarily be worth fighting over. Again, each issue can be felt with. However, it is not these trivial issues that divide denominations. It is issues such as the deity of Christ, the plan of salvation, and others such as worship. Paul differentiates between these types of issues. But again, each issue can be addressed appropriately. That doesn’t mean each issue is one that is a salvation issue.
@@knowledgeeverything6890 which mainline Protestant group denies the deity of Jesus? I am unaware.
When we accept Christ, we become part of the Body of Christ, not a member like CoC denominations says. The Bible doesn't mention being a member like a social club, it says we become part of the body of Christ.
Glad you found the channel. Poke around a bit in the 300+ videos!
In watching your video you never once mentioned sin . Yes sin . If churches are not using the pattern in the new teatament that is not pleasing God. There must be three hundred thousand churches in the U.S . The way to heaven is through a narrow gate , and few be there that find it. The tradition of men in the churches today is not wanting to tell their congregation about sin. Jesus will save those who obey him. Hebrews 5:9
I can’t imagine you have watched 350 videos. Keep at it.
I don't know who told you what a denomination is, but the fact is that 'denomination' means a part of the whole thing. Now how many 'denominations' were there on the day of Pentacost when Peter preached that sermoin and about 3,000 were baptized? Jesus added those who were saved to the church. What church? What denomination? IOn order to have a denomination you have to have more than one, but there was only one. Jesus added the saved to His church. There is nothing in the scriptures about going to the church of your choice. Nothing whatsoever. How do you think Jesus feels about people choosing to be a part of a 'church' that He didn't build, some chgurch organized by mere men, rather than the one He built for those whom He saves? You can find the church that belongs to Christ by going and comparing what they do and believe with what the New Testament says we should do and believe. It is just that simple. Don't be fooled by a single one of the thousands of denominations men have developed, which by the way are always having babies. Jesus is the savior Have the basic courtesy to obey the gospel He died for in the same way that people did in New Testament days, and get into the church He built for you. Consider what may seem to be just a possibility to you now - He knows more about all this business than anyone else!
I am not sure who told me what a denomination is either. That's a good point.
Let me correct that not look but sound liberal it don't sound like you're bringing sound doctrine because sound doctrine is healthy doctrine I don't know if you ever been around brothers that make you lose your appetite but I have. You're getting close to that because when I started hearing you my health started to decline
I don't think "because" works in that sentence. Praying you feel better.
What??
How about this for a definition? If you spend more time arguing with other denomination Christians than you do the "TOTALLY unchurched" (lost); then you belong to a denominations.
I am no scripture quoter, but didn't even Jesus himself PREDICT this would happen? Doesn't that make it prophecy, then, for all intents and purposes? So why waste time arguing over commas?
The "real first century church" didn't even HAVE Bibles to argue over, so why do we? More than enough problems just with translation alone.
I would say about 50-50 split in my experience over sermons with some version of those heathen "other" Christians, "Happy Wife, Happy Life", women are perfect, men (especially husbands) are beyond redemption sermons.
Then hand wring endlessly about why folks are leaving while Rome is burning. All while lighting the firebombs. HA!
Good thoughts Wendell.
The church of Christ is “Nominal Christianity.”
Some are. It isn't one size fits all.
There’s just one way to the pearly gate,
to the crown of life and the friends who wait.
Tis that old cross road and the way called strait,
there’s just one way to the pearly gate.
“There’s Only One Provider”
locally autonomous.....which means if one is teaching a false doctrine, such as marriage, divorce and remarriage....there is no oversight group to police that false teaching....
You don't even make sense and I'm a member of the church of Christ
That’s possible. I am not a perfect communicator. It seems like after two years and a lot of views maybe someone else would have brought it up.
We are a denomination in a sense that we are separated from the what is called “Christians”. We did not make our own rules. We simply follow what the Bible says. Visit the small churches in the Philippines. That’s what they do.
A lot of denominations say this and cults.
From the comments I see you're misleading people
👍🏽
This man is a false teacher. He needs to study scripture before he blasphemes the body of Christ.
This may not be the channel for you if you think that. There is no false teaching or blasphemy going on. You need to study what those words mean before you use them in public.
Fact it's Pre Denominational
Prehistoric.
Who in the world can keep up with you you're too general
That's the nature of not doing videos that are a zillion hours long that no one would watch.