Finding the Fun in Fighting Games
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ธ.ค. 2023
- streamed Dec. 19, 2023
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#FGC #Sajam #GGST #GBVSR #SF6 - เกม
I remember fighting a Faust in Strive who kept fishing for the funny golf move. He finally got it, wacked me with the golf club across the screen, and then immediately disconnected. That guy's having fun.
Dude probably was giggling every time they went for the move, and when they finally hit it the giggling turned into chuckling, and when they D/C’d? Brother that laughter must’ve been contagious.
I too was reminded this evening of why FGs are fun. Put opponent in corner and burnout, they have lvl 3, I have access to CA. Drive rush, jab, block, there's the lvl 3 I was baiting. Counter their lvl3 whiff with a CA of my own to win the round, and then win the next.
And another time was thinking, "throw, throw" and so confident they would wakeup DP on the (they thought) 3rd throw attempt, I walk up, block and say out loud, "wakeup DP." One baited DP later, and there's the words "KO" on the screen, and I'm laughing so hard I wasn't ready for round 2 to start and almost lost off that.
What a hero
@@ggpt9641that’s that shit dawg, get after it
An actual chad!
Crazy how no matter how much time passes people always have to be reminded to HAVE FUN
Getting smoked isn’t fun
Kanamori PFP! I miss Eizouken, that was a GOOD show.
@@Digital.midori D-did you watch the video?
@@LeoHeart272 yes. Sajam turned it back into what he feels. We know he will get godlike eventually even switching controllers. He’s got the experience and knowledge and will put the work in. It’s hard to have fun when you don’t win no matter what anyone says. Because there’s always gonna be a wall you hit eventually, which will just create the cycle again until you really sit down and start to learn/dedicated practice. Unless you want to hit the funny thing like he said then you’re not gonna have fun getting washed all the time.
@@Digital.midori i mean this with sincerity, i think you still miss the point. Winning doesnt have to be the end all of enjoyment, you can still have fun landing stuff (even basic things) or enjoy your small improvements, i do this in other genres all the time like fps(like ill still lose a round and bottom frag but i can still be happy with the quality of a shot that i did make or other aspects outside of "i lost/won").
Besides most fighting games have ranked systems so youre usually gonna be put with people your skill level. I think its mostly a mentality issue at the end of the day which if you dont like fighting games thats cool too.
If you are playing Marvel 3 you can gain some motivation simply by picking Vergil and inputting QCB + LMH
Sometimes it's also just okay to just put the game down for a bit. Sometimes it's just not your day(s) that day(s) and you might just need time to unwind.
Also be sure to routinely ask yourself why you like a game/character/whatever. It just helps you figure out the fun and filter out what isn't and could possibly lead you to games/characters/whatever that are more fulfilling and give you an overall better experience with the genre or any other future endeavors
Going back to University this year and forcing myself to take a long break from sf6 right when I started getting in my own head helped me so much. Playing better than ever now, all because of a decent chunk of time off.
Speak on it dawg. Gotta understand that gaming time overall should be spent having fun; if it’s not fun, spend the time doing something else. We’ve only got so much time away from work, chores, and sleep - it’s worth spending it having fun
This happened with me, allthough for a different genre. Soulslikes.
I just got burnt out by replaying them again and again. Now I don't get why content creators like to replay the game instantly with new methods instead of just giving it some time before hopping back. I realised I was ruining my own great experience with Sekiro by playing it back to back.
Ah, but if you put the game down, YOU LEARN NOTHING AND WILL NEVER IMPROVE. In which case...why bother playing if you're just going to keep losing and not caring about improvement or at least getting the endorphins from a few wins?
I get it, but the genre demands perfection if the matchmaking is even remotely lively.
i watched a guilty gear strive video recently that ended with the text "if you're not using your favorite move in your favorite game, are you really having fun" and after i saw that i realized how right it was and i've since built my own combo routes for bridget's rock the baby move. it works a lot because no one expects it lol
Me when I neutral jump twice into Manon command grab
Me when my favorite moves are pretzel motions and after hours and hours and hours and hours of practice I can hit it roughly 2-3% of the time that I input it 😭
Me when my favorite move is Potemkin Buster Abare
the enjoyment of fighting games kind of requires a minimum level of knowledge imo, I thrive at the "fun competitive" level, where ppl have a good/minimum understanding of core mechanics no matter what is going on. There's no joy in getting beat up while you can't even fully understand what's going on in most of the interactions. There's definitely a baseline that's gotta get reached for any person though
True 🙏
The treshold is also WAY different between playing with an equally new friend, and randos online. The trinity of "block/punch/grab" would be enough to actually have some SAUCE without even being able to do a hadouken.
It's also hard in general to internalize that DEFENSE is so important, the games will have combo trials but not uh "block trials" where you have to block a crossup and then jump a command grab or whatever
@@metallsnubbenthats why t7 introducing punish training and the feature returning in t8 is extremely important.
@metallsnubben Problem is everyone wants to do a hadouken. You can be decent by just having good spacing and fundamentals, but that's not the stuff that gets people to try SF for the first time.
Today was my happiest day with fighting games cuz I got to play some new arcade games with my friend! We just messed around a lot and had tons of fun... Well... at least i had.. I think my friend got frustrated for fumbling the execution at the end.
So I’ve been stuck in Platinum in SF6 and was feeling frustrated but I finally started hitting this drive rush combo consistently I’ve been practicing for a while and realized the small wins will keep you going.
Yeah if you focus on small gains like hitting anti airs/combos/DI counters more consistently it'll add up and you'll get diamond in no time.
Keep going as long as you're enjoying yourself! ♡
it took me a long time, over a lot of different games (mostly non fighting games, in fact) to internalize the idea "your rank/rating/mmr can't be the goal. you've gotta have other goals, and if those goals make you better at the game your rank will go up naturally." and now that i have internalized it, i truly believe it's the secret to happiness in [competitive] gaming. anyways congrats on learning your drive rush combo!
I'm a master Honda player, my conversions with him are pretty good, it's really rare for me to leave damage on the table
I've been playing Jamie now, got platinum 1 with him
I have 3 combos: ch c.jab, c.medium kick(or punch if close), light palm or medium rekka; medium punch, target combo, light palm or medium rekka; and medium kick, drive rush, 2KK, j.heavy kick, heavy punch, cancel the second hit into drink, drive rush c.medium punch meaty
When I first qualified I only knew the first two combos, was hard stuck in platinum 1, then I learned the third combo and instantly got to platinum 4
These things add up people
I just hit Diamond last night and that was because I finally managed to start landing my drive rush cancel combos into super and having it kill, felt so good when I landed it the first time in a real match
I wanted to thank you for all the videos you make man. I've been struggling to find my groove but your videos are helping me understand concepts more and more. I really appreciate it!
one should imagine Sisyphus happy while getting 15 kens in gold rank
I've figured out over time that how much fun I have in fighting games while winning/losing or doing whatever is directly tied to how good or bad my real life is going. Lmao. So if I'm hurting for money or stressed for something else I'm getting too angry over stuff that would not bother me otherwise.
Damn this hit so close to home, thanks for the sudden realisation homie
Between August and September I was playing Strive and getting really pissed off until I finally realized that “I might not only be angry because I’m bad, I’m also angry because I hate the game.” I moved to Tekken and I’m actually having fun! I learned that if I wanna kill myself everytime I go online, I probably shouldn’t play the game, no matter how good it looks. Then I booted Strive back up when Elphelt came out and deleted it after 2 hours. It’s not at all my type of game, so I’m gonna stay away from it. It might just be a skill issue, but I don’t care if it is. I like Tekken more. Thanks for attending my TED Talk
Doesnt matter if it’s a skill issue, I’m in love w ggst but if I wasn’t having fun with it I would avoid it like the plague..
I think it's also ok to just enjoy PARTS of fighting games. For me, I find learning combos in Mortal Kombat very fun - it's almost like a puzzle game where it's usually pretty obvious where your timing is off - but I almost never go online to play. SF6 on the other hand I spend a lot of time in ranked, but I always find learning combos in SF a bit of a slog. There's also a ton of people who just play the single player campaigns and never go online. Grinding matches to become Daigo isn't the only way to enjoy fighting games.
Zangief’s level 3 is my own personal game of “Will it Kill?” Every time I play sf6 :)
MY LOYAL FANS
*gets counter hit after the cinematic*
Generally winning and losing doesn't bother me that much. I think the thing that bothers me the most is if I'm playing and I'm not seeing improvement. Definitely get discouraged with that. I'm happy if I'm ever happy with my performance.
I'm in similar boat
Less not seeing improvement, but more not understanding WHY i'm fucking up
I bounced off BlazBlue during the first time cuz I had fuckin' clue what was going on
But then when I came back with both friends that could teach me and a refreshed perspective, I found my calling as a new Azrael glue sniffer
Underrated comment. Sajam actually made a video about this, its titled something like 'recognizing your own improvement'; just because you don't feel you're improving as fast doesn't mean you aren't improving.
I had a similar problem with Blazblue, but as a veteran. I'd played the game for 10 years and was comfortably high level, but there was still a huge gap between me and the freaking monsters that haunt the online lobbies.
After watching Sajam I started just finding one thing to work on at a time, one new blockstring, one extra mixup, one risky situation to avoid - they would come up once in 20 games, but I'd keep honing one little thing after another and having fun doing so.
Now I've got 1000+ games on my main and 3 subs with over 300 games and I can confidently say I am one of those monsters. It's just one little edge gained at a time.
League is fun as long as you actually THINK about having fun, when you go and try to be the best, never make a mistake, you lose sight of the fun part
As simple as it should be, "finding the fun" can be surprisingly difficult. I don't know, as much as I tell myself that I like fighting games and have been playing them on-and-off for most of my life, I've always struggled to get anywhere with them.
On one hand, there's the very common occurrence of "I'm just bad". In damn near two decades, I'm still terrible. I have been trying to improve (watching footage, looking up tips, analyzing my replays, grinding muscle memory and tactics in training, etc) but to very little avail. And as much as I want to deny it, it's gotten so frustrating that it's often all I can even think about anymore.
On the other, I grew up playing and liking the wrong fighters. When nearly every single fighter I have had even the slightest interest in gets dismissed as kusoge trash, it just hurts. One of my favorite fighters is one I can't even bring up by name cause it's so thoroughly despised by the Western FGC.
Even when I try to stay away from online communities and just stick with friends...it's not much better. I've been forcing myself to get into the stuff they like just so we'd have something between us. Heck, in the last hang out session, I went something like 3-20 in "Skullgirls" and 2-50 in "SF6". I was very much tired and out of it by the end.
I think I'm at the point where I'm wondering if I should just stop playing fighting games altogether. Clearly they are just not clicking with me. It's not fun anymore. If nothing else, that'd be one less person doom-posting I guess.
Fighting games and competitive games in general are hard to be fun. You have to TRY to have fun instead of it coming to you naturally. Losing is inherently unfun, no matter how you try to spin it, and getting out of that spiral is a huge challenge sometimes. It's not like other games where you can play when youre tired or not getting your best. There's times where i want to play SF6 BUT i don't because i know I'm not mentally ready that day and I'm just gonna lose and just not have a good time
Losing in itself isn't unfun by default. It's how you lose that can remove the fun from it. If losing was unfun, 50% of players would stop playing, since in a 1v1, someone is always guaranteed to lose.
Losing isnt unfun, it’s getting washed that’s unfun
"What's the deal with fuzzy setups?"
“It’s worse than drugs” is the new most accurate thing I’be heard anyone say about League of Legends.
It would help if every fighting game didn't do its darndest to make the experience unnecessarily frustrating at every point. Imagine trying to learn tennis but you can't see the net or the lines and all the other rules are never explained and when you lose a point you aren't told why.
"Some players just want to land the funny move"
**LIFE JAM HAS ENTERED THE CHAT**
A buddy got Elden Ring and so for the last month he and I have sunk over 125 hours into our characters. Went back to Strive last night and I was schmoovin on people. It felt great to get back in after a long break and I was having more fun then I have in months.
Long breaks can help so much.
Weirdly I also did this over the last month with Elden Ring. It was so good to take a break, and Elden Ring just happens to be really good practice for fighting games
I can't help but feel like we're circling around a larger problem without addressing it. In my experience playing fighting games and talking with other around my (relatively low) skill level, the frustration around losing is less about the fact that we lost and more about the experience of losing. Fighting game losses feel different than losses in other games because of the way that they're designed. They're not team games. The rounds are short. And most importantly, mistakes are usually punished with a complete loss of character control (hitstun).
It's hard to embrace that simple joy of being your favorite character when you're getting combo'd. It feels like...nothing. It feels like a waste of time. This is partially why platform fighters are so appealing. Even something as simple as DI can work wonders for making players feel connected to the action. But traditional fighting games don't really have that. So the mental strain of losing is higher.
I took a sampling of matches from last EVO across multiple games and calculated how long the losers spent in hitstun, and the numbers were pretty high even for players at similarly high skill levels. It differed from game to game but as an example, Street Fighter averaged at ~20% of a match spent in hitstun. Not super scientific (I didn't do every round), but it's something.
Of course I'm not knocking anyone for enjoying fighting games. I love them too. I'm just thinking: perhaps we're overdue for a new fighting game subgenre. Maybe there's some truth to be found in the dissatisfaction of "scrubs".
Basically, if you're new to the game, you won't be playing. Landing 2 hits in the whole set doesn't feel like you're learning or getting better either, it just feels like you're not in control of anything, like going into a scripted loss except the game promises you actually have a chance
bro i've been switching to a new main in ggs and you don't know how much I needed this video, thanks.
Switched to lever less like a month ago. It made learning sf6 fun all over again even though I'm not as precise as I use to be.
While there are plenty of good points here, it begs the question "Why not just spend all your time in Arcade/Training?" If just playing the game should be fun enough for its own sake, why ever go online in the first place? Why not just play against Easy CPU and have fun styling on them? The answer is pretty clear to me, which is that, for whatever reason, winning against another human is a key component of the fun of competitive gaming. The main problem I personally struggle with is that eventually (pretty quickly actually) winning stops being fun, but losing never stops feeling miserable. It's like if you win, it's cause the other guy sucked, but if you lose it's because you suck. You're never allowed to feel proud of how you played, because the internet at large makes you feel like beating anyone short of Master rank is not a worthy accomplishment. Between the ranked system constantly showing exactly how much you suck\how little progress you're making, and your brains refusal to give out precious seratonins even when you do the thing, it's rough. I don't think it's a great idea to just move on whenever a hobby starts to feel that way, but there definitely does come a time when enough is enough.
I agree with this sentiment. I kept having moments where I wanted to plug back in my controller or arcade stick when I was learning leverless 😂 but you’re right, learning things again and doing new things felt fun and kept it so fresh. Having that down to earth talk with yourself really helps
I approached FGs like a Souls game. Losing over and over again in a FG is like dying over and over again in a Souls game for me. I find that trying to overcome a tougher opponent is a lot of fun and can be very satisfying. Even if I only win once against a stronger player, Im plenty satisfied
A lot of people treat competitive games like a religion, or a cult
I used to do this too, until one really bad afternoon in SF6, and just took a break from FGs, and FG content in general
Granblue comes out, I decide to go back to playing, but I take a new approach. No "honorable duel against strong opponents", no losing afternoons watching guides and labbing, no arithmetic to choose the best character to grind. I just shamelessly copy what Max is doing
Like Jiyuna said, "I don't wanna be the dude that spends 14 hours a day learning frame data only to get smoked by some random dude online", I'd rather be the random dude online and have fun
I like that you took a break in this video to explain why motion controls are so frustrating and difficult to use for a lot of people. I dont think you realized what you were saying, but it was glorious. That breakdown where you were playing leverless and imagining how much easier it was on a different control scheme, right before you went into the tangent about getting angry rather than finding the fun. It certainly felt like you had to pivot mid-thought cause you realized you were validating the arguments of those who wish motion inputs would finally die!
Dark souls is literally one of the most popular video games and it's core design is based around kicking your fucking teeth in, and people love it. Clearly, it's possible for people to have fun even when losing, its just about marking progress in ways that don't just involve what the screen says at the end of a match
In my experience, having fun generally comes down to your goals, because those have the biggest effect on your mindset. And this is true for any game.
If you ask yourself "Why am I playing this game" and the answer is "To win", then your enjoyment is tied into whether you queue into players worse than you, which puts your happiness on a coin flip.
Instead, come in with the *goal* of learning, getting better, or just having fun, and you'll find the happiness comes to you.
I think what new players underestimate is how much veterans kind of envy their experience of having so much to learn and improve on.
One of the biggest problems with legacy skills isn't just the barrier to entry, but also that as a veteran I've essentially 'skipped' most of the learning curve mechanically, which means I don't get that same rush of finding something new to work on nearly as much.
Learning something new can be daunting because inevitably you'll be out of your depth surrounded by others who know more, but there's a simple underappreciated joy in finding something you can't do and bridging the gap from 'can't' to 'can'.
That happens much faster and more frequently when you're new to something, so it's worth appreciating while you're there, you lucky ass scrubs.
As a (2d) veteran, I've felt this so much with Tekken recently, every day I'm learning so many new things and its so rewarding that it's the fighting game I'm putting the most time into right now by far
Literally everytime i try and learn a new character from anji I'm just like....maybe i should just go back. But your right I should stick with it and find something i enjoy cause going back would just cause small blips of enjoyment but overall same frustration with the game. Good video. Never stop making them. Keep up the amazing work.
I'm a fighting game coach, and my students have had decent success (one student got out of pools at their first evo using Potemkin, another one got regular top 16s or better at GBVS). I tell them two things:
1. Remember that there's joy in perfecting your craft. Even if you're not where you want to be now, find the fun in improving and seeing how much better than you were before.
2. If, after a few months, when you boot up a ranked match and you say "Oh, I fucking hate this matchup!" about almost every matchup? That's the REAL sign that you don't like the game. It's time to move on to a different one.
i mean none of what was said was wrong, but i'd just add this before such considerations:
for most people, trying to have fun in a game where there are no players online (or friends) at your skill level to consistently play against as you get better is gonna be rough. unless you are already solid at that genre's fundamentals, or find most of your joy in practicing alone, or you are absolutely in love with that specific game. just something to consider when picking a game.
if you're absolutely new to a certain genre, definitely give what you think is coolest a shot, but i'd be lying if i said you didn't have an overwhelmingly greater chance of enjoying your time learning a more modern and populated game than an older one with a smaller fanbase and a more developed meta where most active players are pretty good at it already. if you know what you're doing though and you're sure the game you love is the smaller/older/more technical one, hell yeah. the community will probably love you simply for playing it because you GET it.
Hi, I recently got into SF6 (first fighting game ever) and I LOVE the classic controls. However, I’m kind of concerned the modern playstyle is gonna take over sooner or later or perhaps become the norm in the next title. Do you think this will happen? If it did, I feel like it’d take a lot of the feelings of self accomplishment and improvement as an individual player I have. As well as make the super hype crazy input combos less hype to see in the high level tournament settings as well. I was just curious of your opinion on modern controls and if you believe FGC is going to slowly lower the initial skill gap players have.
I feel like I've gotten much happier playing fighting games the more I'm able to turn off the "rank grind" mentality. The more I can just focus on the match in front of me and not some arbitrary point-based end goal, it's just such a more enjoyable experience. It's also why I appreciate SF6. Because, yes, it's point-based, but I can literally go into the settings and turn off that data in the HUD options. Now, neither of our ranks show up during a match and it doesn't enter my mind.
Unfortunately, that's also why I hate the celestial floor in Strive. The stress of "earning" a spot each month just takes me out of my matches and I become a worse player for it. That's why no matter if I qualify for the celestial floor challenge, I just stay in floor 10. Since, you know, I still lose to people in floor 10 anyway. I can still get plenty of really good matches there without worrying about the pressure of celestial.
Great timing for this on a friday night before xmas. Good mentaility to remember. Thanks Sajam!
I can't tell you how much I Love this thumbnail!
there's always one person in comments of videos like these who just gets it and explains the balance of struggling to find the fun in improvement perfectly. always thankful for videos like these and the discussions they bring bc you'd be surprised by how many people will just go "duh i don't understand i love getting my ass whooped" in response to someone genuinely looking for help
I am very thankful for you posting this video. I have been struggling with having fun in my hobbies in general, let alone relearning Granblue with it's new mechanics and the like. Learning is really hard and it brings out the worst in me tbh. Got to fix that.
Whenever it doesn't feel like I'm having fun I just go for my sub and it's just way more fun. This one time there was a character that I could not combo with at all but his moves were really fun to frame-trap and poke people with. Had the best mirror match ever the whole afternoon
I think it's taken a while to figure out that 90% of what I enjoyed about fighting games was just sitting in the same room as some friends to play together. I've never been able to get back that level of Fun with fighting games again. And while they're still enjoyable, I'm starting to think maybe it's time to just focus on some other genres. Online play just isn't the same thing.
The fun in fighting games for me is the learning experience either from the character or the people in real life behind the screen or in tourney. No other games are like it in that regard.
Losing is necessary in order to progress. You’ll always find something you can’t get by, but when you finally do, it’s the best
Has Sajam tired mixbox with the wasd layout? I find it much easier than the normal hitbox layout. Definitely preference just interested on his opinions on it.
great vid!
I am learning arcade stick rn and i know the exact feeling you're referring to. Honestly i feel defeated when i beat someone by dealing to Pad. I won the match but i lost the internal battle to my ego and that feels worse
The character you play can also make a big difference. I got Kim and Juri to Master in SF6. With Kim, I was always having a blast, even when I was losing. With Juri, I was grumpy most of the time, even when I was winning. 😅
I normally try to alternate playing with stick or leverless every week because I want to feel comfortable on both and it's actually a REALLY interesting experience to try and pay attention to what I find easier in either, what I would choose if push came to shove, what I get wary of trying because I'm "in the wrong controller for that"....
Bonus points that I use a regular stick but a "lefty layout" leverless because of keyboard legacy so each hand is playing different roles for each controller
It's easy to get frustrated when you get bopped in a fighting game because it's so personal and "intimate". It's 1-1 100% of the time with no distractions, the ONLY goal is your opponent. So when you get trounced, there's nothing else. No teammates, no positional thing, no external tasks.... So finding this fun is key. I came into Strive to play Bridget, as he was the character I played back in XX. And I mained her for quite a bit in Strive, she is super fun. But haven't looked back once I went to Potemkin precisely because how much i like landing all of his stuff. It's hard not to get a jump scare buster in and NOT immediately open up a wide smile. Better yet, Glue Eating Mirror Match is just non stop laughing at the screen at all the dumb stuff
But even on a broader level, as much as it's frustrating to get destroyed, I find that just winning isn't quite satisfying either, because the drive to improve is such a big part of the whole fighting game incentive. To me what feel like the best matches to me are the ones where the opponent feels JUST out of reach... like if I clean up one or two things I can tip the scales back. A victory you didn't sweat for doesn't quite taste the same
After a solid 8-ish months on-and-off playing Strive on a stock Xbox controller, I recently decided on a whim to try out keyboard just to see how it would go. It's been a LOT more fun than I ever expected. It isn't perfect and my keyboard specifically has some ghosting issues (nothing that can't be fixed with a lil' bit of button remapping), but it's been a nice change of pace from controller. I can finally do my motion inputs consistently, I actually can comprehend how to intentionally do a Z input, and I just feel like I have more control over my character. But it took a while to get used to, I'm still not fully used to it honestly, and I've had to stick to playing my secondary main Sin because he's simpler than my actual main Chipp who I'm terrified to try playing on keyboard, I barely know what I'm doing on the controller I've been playing with for 70 hours so how am I supposed to perform a fraction as well on a keyboard of all things?! But hey, it's been enjoyable, and it's spiced up Strive in a way I didn't expect. Maybe I'll actually get good at it and I'll buy an actual leverless controller or I'll grab a budget arcade stick to try all three of the main controller types and see which works best, I dunno. What I do know is that for now, the way I'm having most fun with Strive isn't just throwing myself into online for 5 hours a day and hoping it goes well, it's trying new things because I realize more and more I've barely touched a quarter of the cast and there's probably a ton more characters I'll enjoy.
This is why I never get when people say "this person is doing X and doesn't care about improving." Some people just want to hit buttons and mash, not everyone needs to improve all of the time.
If anything League teaches you the lesson of not caring about wins and losses even harder than fighting games, cuz League is a team-based game where your effort doesn't necessarily determine the outcome of the game. Just today I had the extreme variance experience: I went 24 kills 2 deaths as super tryhard Jhin, lost. Next game I went 3/3 as braindead Malzahar, but got a free win. Go figure, eh?
As with all things, focusing on goals and end results too much drains the fun out of the process. If you don't enjoy the moment-to-moment stuff, all the little micro-decisions that put you in the flow of playing, take a break, take care of yourself and take a moment to reframe your perspective from big picture to small picture. Learn to enjoy the process and the results will follow naturally.
If you're the goal-oriented type, try to focus specifically on goals that are fully within your control: not something like 'I'm gonna win this next game' which is dependent on your opponent's skill relative to yours, but something based solely on your actions and decisions, maybe something as simple as 'I'm gonna try to focus on blocking more'. If you're in tune with the fundamentals, THAT is where the moment-to-moment fun is to be found - not to mention having a solid mastery of the basics means you have a reliable fallback.
Switching to deejay made sf6 so much more fun cause hes so silly. His od sway routes are wildly fun
People doing the bbc combo with Geras in MK are definitely having fun
It's interesting. I play a lot of fighting games but I also play this game called Identity V which has a mobile and PC version. When I play at work on Mobile I tend to lose a lot more, and I get really aggravated because the funky mobile controls cause me to miss things and missinput more than if I were playing on a keyboard on PC. It's such a massive point of frustration that I feel like a lot of people don't really acknowledge. Me personally, it sometimes helps to remind myself that I *know* I'm not as good playing on mobile, and that if I want to play I either need to seriously practice on mobile, or just accept that I'm gonna take some Ls because of my lack of experience.
I feel you on learning the Razer Kitsune. Got my controller for Christmas and I've been playing wit it since. Sometimes its unmotivating cuz it feels like im starting from the beginning lol. This past week i actually havent been playing my PS5 that often cuz i think i beed a break.
Granblue is the first fighing game im gonna take seriously and i just got my razer kitsune 2.5 weeks ago and trying to learn and new game + learn a new controller ( was on ps5 controller before) can be very annoying because i know what i want to do but i mess it up because i input the wrong thing due to the new controller. While its annoying I know that im putting myself in a lose lose situations and just focus on make all my matches learning experience. Because im going against players that played the 1st game since lauch or played a lot vs me learning this game and a new controller.
My favorite personal example of playing an FG for fun while still attempting to better myself: Playing Captain Olimar in Smash!
My friends hate this guy. Not because he's the highest tier character, but because 5 little assholes are jumping you while your opponent zones you out to get more guys to jump you. I could main Olimar, I love him, but I never have. Because I get too much joy out of simply throwing little guys with no real concern for victory!
I still play to win, sure. I think about spacing, neutral, proper shield use, staying calm under pressure, the fundamental stuff. But I couldn't care less about Olimar's optimal strats and tech. The goal is to throw my little dudes. If I win, awesome! If I don't, I still made my opponent extremely annoyed. There's not a single moment of the match where I don't feel joy.
Adding in the detail that I think you can have this kind of fun with a character you main too, you just need to have your goal be more "I wanna do this with my character" and less, "I Need to win". Maybe you wanna improve your pressure, maybe you wanna land that combo, maybe you just want to trick em into getting hit with wake up super(which you could consider conditioning!). If you have a fun secondary objective, you'll probably enjoy more matches.
Honestly my enjoyment of strive comes a lot from the animations and vfx. Heck, when I play Ky, even getting c.s blocked is super satisfying.
As talented as a player / commentator Sajam is, he is unmatched when casually shooting the shit about the more abstract aspects of approaching Fighting Games.
I used to boot up Smash Bros. weekly, and I could never figure out why I was getting so unreasonably angry. Then I started plying Strive recently, and along with watching some of your previous videos, it taught me EXACTLY why. Whenever I booted up Smash, my sole goal was to gain elo. That's it. It wasn't to work on anything specific, it wasn't to actually learn the characters I was using, it was just to win. Being so new to Guilty Gear forced me to look at the game and my own skill in a WAY more humble and reasonable manner, so even though I still die to Happy Chaos standing full screen and shooting me, I don't get mad, because my goal wasn't to win, it was to learn.
I'm mainly grumpy because fighting games aren't big in my region and I'm too much of a shut-in to organize local meet ups
The key to fun is haha funny grappler man.
For me it’s all about finding people at my skill level. My first games were +R and Melty Blood AACC and the player base was just way too good. I recently decided to spend the money to buy strive and it’s really fun when you get to improve along with your opponent instead of spending full rounds blocking and not being able to understand what’s going wrong and what you could possibly do to fix it
One thing that helps me if I’m feeling frustrated or angry is to remind myself that I can choose how to respond to those feelings.
Marcus Aurelius moment.
personally, fun in fighting games to me is when i feel like i'm having meaningful interactions with someone. like, if i win or lose, it doesn't matter, as long as i'm staying engaged
I remember playing strive and just trying to learn faust after a few patches and I played 100 rounds with the guy and when I finally won I kept going and got my ass beat lol. But it's fun learning and figuring out how to beat someone's playstyle. I'm honestly glad mvc3 built me the endurance I have because just playing 50-100 rounds is something that is just hard to comeby sometimes lol.
Speaking of having fun while getting bodied, do you have any advice for how to stay in the game and try to learn and improve on defense when you’re getting steamrolled in a game with high character power?
That’s always been my plateau, and it feels difficult to even put a gameplan together to learn how I’d deal with overwhelming offense like that.
Hotoshi holding that Drive-by 🚗💨🤣
Hey it's me! I'm the person who was like "oh yeah I play League it's a good time". I had fun with League because I played it with friends and didn't take it too seriously. I was playing to win for sure, but I could generally just shrug off the losses cuz I was having a good time with friends. I don't play anymore because none of my friends are playing it, and I know I could get toxic as hell playing it alone.
So just for the record, you can have fun playing League of Legends. It's possible.
Finding the Fun in Fighting Games
Challenge level: Impossible
As someone who is like decent at fighting games and wants to enjoy them it's just so hard sometimes. Feel like I always end up in a weird spot where there are people worse than me that I run over and don't have much fun but then there are people more skilled who run ME over and I don't have any fun. Seems like at a certain level of skill you stop having frequent close matches.
It's the point where you have to decide if you want to start dedicating more and more time to studying the game and matchups and its like "Sure I could use my time to sit in training mode learning all the gaps in this blockstring and what the frame data is on this move and what punishes it" or I could go play a game where I'm doing something fun lol Personally don't want my game to start feeling like i'm studying for a class, but I know some people love doing that type of thing. Just wish fighting games had a better way of providing solutions to situations other than grinding out lab time. Probably why I enjoyed T7 so much. The game has a lot of shenanigans but if I was getting blown up by a move or string in particular I could quickly go into the punishment trainer in training mode and find an answer.
Guess I'll forever be a spectator lol
It's hard to describe if you've never experienced it but I've found that if I'm not actively enjoying playing against an easy bot, the game isn't for me. I'm a literal scrub. When I played SFIV, i tried to enjoy it, I tricked myself into playing it almost. Then I played MVC3 and I would literally just play random All story to fuck around with characters. I played Street Fighter X Tekken with others and while I was having fun playing my friends. I had more fun playing Third Strike and just doing taunt shenanigans with Dudley and V.
Tekken was a big one that made me understand. It's the first fighting game where I could truly visualize combos and to me, I was more focused on hitting this cool-ass combo I figured out rather then even beating the opponent. Of course it's fun to win also, but smacking someone with Asuka's burning lightning just felt good.
I like training as Happy Chaos because he's so unique and hard to master. It can certainly get very frustrating at times but I keep coming back because he's so interesting to play as.
Yes, many hate him and yes, he can be super annoying if he's just sitting in a corner sniping constantly.
Personally I run in close and try to outsmart and feint the opponent while trying to figure out their weaknesses. Because Happy is so weak himself, it is super important to figure that stuff out since he doesn't have many of the tools most characters have to defend themselves with and take for granted. For instance, a DP or an attack to close distance.
If a Happy player is just sniping and haven't mastered normals properly, you only need to close the distance and they're toast. Heck, even if they're pretty good in close range they'll still take a significant beating if any of the other characters gets close.
Hot tip, try not to outsnipe him too much, if he figures out your pattern he will nail you. Also if Happy is observant and nails you often, even without a curse, DO NOT air-dash at a distance, that is pretty easy for Happy to spot and punish.
For me the fun is learning all characters in general and using that knowledge to my advantage. Unique and weird characters are also some of my favorites. In Chaos Code I love playing as a the buffest cook in the world, that will cook you the best meal of your life while beating the shit out of you. That dude is amazing!
If you've ever had a moment where you could've won but you started messing around(playing with your food so to speak) and lost as a result but we're laughing the whole time, it's that same feeling that you should be chasing. I personally enjoy taking things seriously though that's just how i have fun
Play against the computer. You can learn at your own pace and don't have to worry about cheaters or 'no-lifers'.
bro really said id beat you if i wasnt on the cheatbox
sometimes i start laughing my ass off throwing a bunch of items as faust at get reminded of why i got strive in the first place
1:10: Life Jam.
My brain gets in my way with these games so many days, but i dont give up for the chance to have a good day
So true Sageam
The part where you talk about League felt so refreshing to me, because i think the game is really fun and i love it but everyone i meet that plays the game just have a massive negative experience with it, to the point that it's exhausting.
The funny sheep makes me laugh, that's all I need to be considered sick nasty to me.
1:08 It me xD This is entirely why I clicked with Slayer in Guilty Gear: I just like the way he looks and moves and feels. Haven't bothered learning the frame data, the proper combos, even basic dash cancel jumps, because the fun part is just *do the punch, run the mix, be style*.
Wish he showed the Brutus quote retweet of the original tweet
I truly struggle with this so much. I really do my best not to care about my rank but its honestly so disheartening to be stuck in the same rank for 5 months. I took a break for the holidays just becuase ive been feeling terrible about my lack of progress and was forever tilted. I'm 3 weeks into playing SF6 again and ive managed to lose 3 stars of ranked. Ive somehow managed to get worse at the game. Meanwhile all my other friends that have SF6 as their first FG (ive been playing FGs for around 4 years now and im the one who follows the most streamers/youtube content / reads up on frames etc etc)
Its easier said than done to "not care about rank ....but I have no idea what to do at this point. I feel like i need to achieve enlightenment and inner peace or something if I want to continue grinding out fighting games. I wish I didnt love them so much because ive managed to give up on all other competitive games (League / Valo etc etc, my friendgorup also outranked me here by a lot so we cant play in the same games anymore because of ranked diff)
A problem I see is that people see these ranked systems as linear progression. The devs, YTers, and hype are partly to blame. It isn't. It isn't supposed to be a ladder, more like a sorting process. The game's meant to calibrate your rank and match you with people it thinks you'd have a balanced match with. The goal is to get the best matches possible, not to chase a number.
I think if people viewed it that way they'd feel content where they were put by the system. Climbing isn't the goal, having fun and/or improving is. Climbing is just a side effect or the result of that.
Another way I like to think about it is instead of being salty that I lost, I feel happy for my opponent. They did this or that sick play, etc. Respect and appreciation instead of resentment. I experience successes through them.
I love the characters I play even when I lose, and the times that sentence wasn't true, I either reconsidered my character picks or played other games
If you either dislike or don't care for who you play you might burn yourself out Bad
mfw watching this after i haven’t played a fighting game in like three months
I am that League player who's having fun, gebuinely enjoying the game. And recommending that nobody else plays it ever. You really gotta have a steel braincase to deflect some of the shit that comes your way. But at its core, the game is just so fun.
I am a scrub. I just think of risk reward concepts and focus on how my opponent is playing. I've been having fun experimenting.
I'ma be honest that's kinda how I figured out that "traditional" fighting games ain't for me. The base controls of anything that's grown out of Street Fighter 2 just don't feel good to me, and trying to convince myself if I got Good Enough at them they'd feel good someday has been kinda just led to me just smacking my head against the wall hoping it'd just Click someday.
Meanwhile like, stuff like Smash, Divekick, Arms or other non traditional fighting games just kinda felt natural and good and that just makes that. Just a fun time win or lose, at least.
There was a guy in the xrd matchmaking discord who was asking this question a lot, I’ll probably link him this
Also, while I’ve been playing xrd a lot recently Baiken parry makes me happy every time I hit it, every time I hit a parry I say “damn he’s good” and I try to hard read wake up dp’s and parry them even though it’s not optimal just because it’s cool
For me the best thing I've found is to not care. And I mean that as you should detach your ego or perceived skill from your play. "Why are you mashing there idiot?" Has a very simple response in: I've never seen this character before. A personal example is I have a good reaction time and solid enough execution to react to a good number of things in Granblue, but I've also been hit holding forward trying to dp true blockstrings. Some people learn really quickly and others not so much, just go at your own pace.
Great🍾 💎💪🏽😉
During my first 40 hours in GGST I was getting smoked pretty often, so during the process of my neutral getting better over time my greatest source of fun was trying to land the most stupid unsafe gorilla ass mix-up I could think off with my boy Anji. RC'ing Rin into Kara Cancel Rin and RC'ing that into another Kara Cancel Rin is just fucking unhinged and gave 0 returns, but the dopamine rush it gave me when somehow it landed kept me in the game and now Im semi-competent, managing to stay on tenth floor without trouble, sometimes getting into celestial for a while. Trying to play "correctly" too much in the first hours just sucks the fun out of the game.
I recommend @breezyman 's video on reaching 1800 MR, specifically the first section where he discusses the mindset to improving in fgs
Its always nice to have a reminder like this, especially when you're too angry/frustrated to understand why you lose.
Everyone has their off days, its normal and I'm just as guilty as anyone else who points fingers, best we can do is be better.
Seeing yourself improve, even if it takes years, is always fun to see :)
(I would've linked the video but youtube deleted the original comment for some reason 🙃)
The most fun for me is when i play well, i get pissed when i play sloppy with too many mistakes, win or lose i just wanna play well and keep improving
Is fun some kind of new tech?