I tend to agree, except it certainly depends on the types and degrees of modification. For example, a different type of tire from the factory is a modification.
So you wouldn't consider a modified truck from a well-known aftermarket company (Roush, Hennessey, etc)? Some modifications are reasonable (stereo system, interior modifications, computer reprogramming, etc). However some modifications are just a joke (e.g. Brodozers).
@@phild9813 Manufacturers and the U.S. Government don’t consider using a tire of the same size and meeting the same requirements as a modification. If that were the case, they could deny warranty based on the modification. They can’t because it isn’t. Changing to a different size can change the loading on wheel bearings and alter the suspension geometry. That is a modification.
Not a chance. I'm a design engineer that gets plenty of blame. We design to qualified specifications not backyard mechanic desires. Many backyard mechanics do a great job at mods, we just can't get away with that due to legalities. And probably for good reason
Keep in mind, your weight carrying capacity is limited to the lowest maximum capacity of your combination of components. Let’s pick your front steer axle. You have the capacity of each tire, each wheel, each spring, the axle (or axles) and the rating of the truck itself at that position. Plus, you also often have 2 tire capacity ratings on tires. One limit for a single installation, and a second and lower limit for a dual wheel tire operation.
The stock configuration of these trucks is actually pretty amazing. If I hook up a gooseneck to my 2018 ram 3500 single wheel the amazing thing is that the entire truck gets pressed down. I added a toolbox in a diesel, transfer tank that necessitated getting a offset gooseneck ball, and guess what? Just that alone threw off the dynamic of the total load compression and I’ve got to be a little bit more careful now with where the load is placed on the gooseneck trailer.🤔
With regards to upgrading brakes - I literally just did this job this past weekend. I replaced the OEM system on my truck - with another OEM system. I took the brake system off of a Alpha H1 and put it on my non Alpha H1. It's still a factory setup but its 100% identical to what the factory did for the "upgraded" version of my truck.
The issue with lifted trucks on big tires is not only wear and tear on components but also with reported mileage at the time of purchase. With a bigger tire, the truck reported mileage is lower then it really is. If your truck came with 31" tire from the factory and you immediately change them to 33", that is about 6% more tire circumference. Which means truck drove extra 6 miles for every 100miles that is indicated on the odometer. Close to 8.8% when on 35" tires. If I did my math right.
I went from the stock 245/75R16 tires to 265/75R16 tires. Even that little difference could be felt. Gas mileage went down about 1 mile per gallon and the way the brakes feel changed. But, it looks so much better than the smaller stock tires and the increased ground clearance is obvious.
There are work trucks and "Play" trucks. Play trucks are not for truck tasks like hauling heavy cargo or towing heavy. Both are valid and useful, but very different use cases.
Good discussion. Lots to consider that folks may not think about. For offroading, I added sliders, skids, and lift to my 4Runner. Very happy with those mods and I can now do lots of trails in CO/Moab. However, it may make sense to keep my stock tire size since going bigger only provides 1/2” or 1” additional clearance. Trying to decide if that justifies the extra weight and wear.
On stock suspension if you plan to off road regularly there's nothing wrong with going with an jnch taller tire. Gaining some sidewall is nice too, but you get a little less road feel and a squishier ride.
This os what cracks me up when tacoma trd pros are made into overlanders. Already no payload then they add an obscene amount of weight before they even get in.
The few mods I have done to my truck was replacing the regular bulbs with the LED ones (I skipped the turning signal ones), I installed Firestone airbags, tonneau cover, Line-X bedliner, and the tailgate actuator to lock the truck bed. I have a 21 Tundra. However, even the LED bulbs can create a lot of problems, so I would not recommend that. Everything else is standard. The last thing I am going to install is the transmission cooler and I am done messing around.
Good comments about truck mods that actually hurt the load capacity and performance, nice to know you guys have the integrity to get that information out.
If the modifications you are making are intended to improve the utility of the truck for your use case, you will probably be rewarded for those modifications when it comes to resale because buyers who also need that additional utility will appreciate it, but if your modifications are purely cosmetic, finding a buyer who wants those same modifications might be difficult.
The front versus rear axle weight rating is to provide customers with an idea of how much they can load on either side. Example: snow plow. However, the total gross vehicle weight rating does not change.🤔
Thank you for touching on the speedometer comment. Not all of course, but in my opinion a sizeable amount of lifted truck owners drive aggressively to begin with...but if their speedometer is off by 5 or 10 mph? The road rage, hand gestures, tailgating, and unsafe passing maneuvers are insane because they think traffic in front of them is going slower than they actually are.
@@jaimeramirez6407 I agree you should keep right except to pass in multi lane highway situations. But if left lane traffic is actually doing 80+ actively passing traffic on the right doing 75 (75 speed limit zone), there is no justification for a lifted 6000 lb truck to be within 2 feet of a car doing 80 mph if their speedometer inaccurately reads 70. Lifted truck drivers tend be in the same category as "credit card captains" in boating.
I bought a 2003 Tahoe that had 2018 Silverado factory wheels and tires on it. 265/65/18 Goodyears to be exact. I put a leveling kit on it almost immediately and then bought a set of wheels and tires. 305/55/20 (33") Mickey Thompson all terrains with a 20x12 wheel which had a -44mm offset. To accommodate fitment in the front I had to trim the front bumper, as well as the inner fender liner. I also had to give up my windshield washer reservoir because my tire rubbed against it at full lock. There were no fitment issues in the back. I never had significant issues, but my gas mileage went to shite, my rig was always dirty from the tires throwing dirt all over the body. I also got pulled over because my state laws say tires cannot protrude beyond the fender. I was given a warning. Because I saw so many other trucks that were the same, I ignored the warning and was never stopped again. The ride was much stiffer than the tires I replaced because the all terrains were 10ply. The tires lasted 85k miles and I didn't want to pay the $2-3k to replace them, so I put the tires it came with back on. It drove so much better. However, things didn't end there. After 6 months, I decided to go down and lowered the vehicle 3" and put factory GM 22" wheels and tires on it. My gas mileage is far better than when truck was raised with the all terrains but I had camber issues in the front and ended buying new upper control arms with an extra 2 degrees of camber adjustment to keep the tires riding flat on the ground. The TLDR is that your vehicle just works better in its factory configuration. You can add modifications that stay within a certain envelope and don't change how your vehicle functions.
Modifying is great as long as it works for what you need it to do. Got my Yukon Denali is lifted on 35s and does great in the nw trails here in WA for play and camping. No regrets! Brakes: Slotted and drilled rotors are great at upgrading your brakes without much additional work.
My 2014 tacoma is heavily modified but not for offroad. It works beautifully with current mods, but it took some time to learn a few leasons. With snugtop bed canopy, adding any additional load would bottom out the rear suspension. Had to add an extra leaf. Works so much better for towing a trailer. Added an ARB steel bull bumper for a commute over coastal mountain and needed to add heavier springs for added front end load. Changed all shocks to ARB. Because of heavier bumper and trailer weight, upgraded front rotors and breaks. The truck now has 147k miles and drives so good on curves with overall stiffer suspension, but way too stiff offroad. These days, I drop tire pressure down to 15psi for a softer trail handling. Overall, full-size trucks may have been better in stock form but would not fit backyard access for trailer storage and would not be as capable offroad. I standby my mods as they improved the truck for my use case. I'm not interested in the sell price or added cost of mods. Bought it new and the truck has been paid off for a long time. Still on original 16" rims and running 32" tires.
It's great that you think it rides better but the mods you did downgraded your trucks overall ability. If a group of engineers recalculated the specs of your truck, you'd be shocked at how much you affected it.
@@ryansheard8092 Looks like I should have explained my issue with this point of view. I 100% agree that there is a reaction for every action. Whatever vehicle modification you make will effect other components when it comes to the rating value assigned by the factory / engineers. The issue here is the statement "it is wrong and misleading". Truck rating is developed to cover the average costumer who knows no better. Modifying the vehicle with a perpose is what manufacturers do as well and they adjust the ratings. An average person needs to know physics, mechanical engineering and able to understand logic. When Setting up / improing the vehicle for added load and towing, other things will be effected like: suspension articulation, center of gravity and vehicle weight. The point is knowing what my vehicle capabilities after modification. Increasing tire size must be followed up with transfer case gearing swap, upgraded breaks, lift for tire travel, spacers for driveline, sway bar and so on... Understanding your mods is the point and not expecting the truck to be the same after a change.
Only thing I did was slightly larger tires & leveling kit on my ram 2500 cumins. I used stock rims & 3/16 spacer plates. I lost 2mpg mileage. I use waze app to check speed was off by 2. BTW I'm sure engineers will say debadging causes problems
For hd trucks, the base models typically come with 17” wheels and 32” or 33” tires. You can get 20s w/34” tires on other packages. Are the base models running entirely different axles, brakes, and other components? The only difference I am aware of are the leaf spring packs. Otherwise, the components are generally the same. Obviously you see more differences between gas and diesel, dually and srw, but I don’t see how going from 33” to 35” will reduce payload for most trucks.
mods are great if done properly when you lift how you lift it changes headlights steering towing capacity fuel milage visibility you need to evaluate what your needs are first and do it right.
😂😂.....the only way to "do it right" would be to have an engineer evaluate everything you're doing and recalculate every specific of the vehicle. Your towing capacity, payload and overall ability of your truck will take a massive hit. Period.
Actually in Australia the big F trucks can be registered as a truck which allows big modifications, like massive tyres and big lift. But you need a truck license to drive them. Light vehicles are very hard to highly modify though depending on the state.
As a retired vegetable farmer I have seen others put a one ton pallet of produce on the back end of a 1500 pickup. It's a dumb thing to do. That's why we all owned larger gvw flatbed trucks. Use the right tool for the job people or just make two trips!
before watching - depends on the modification and the definition of "ruined" for example if you have something track focused and you put on lighter rims with better tires, that will probably not ruin the vehicle because you've replaced a part with another one that is virtually better in every respect the next owner would care about, unless the rims are really ugly. giving a truck a small lift, would also most likely not ruin it because there are some draw backs (like lower fuel economy) but for most buyers that's fine because it's not something they care about. plus the pay off of the look and increased performance in areas they care about, probably outweighs the downside if on the other hand you put on a junkyard turbo that cause the car to constantly over heat any time you try to use it, that would be ruining it because there's no upside and if anything you've inconvenienced the next owner.
Great talk show gentlemen. On the topic of overbuying or overkilling it in terms of too much truck vs trailer. I recently purchased a Ram Laramie Crew Cab 3500 Diesel Dually to tow our 10,000 lb fully loaded Toy Hauler. This took care of several issues. The first as you said the truck would have plenty of power to pull additional weight while having more than enough stopping power as well. The other issue was if we ever wanted to upgrade travel trailers or to a 5th wheel we’d have the truck to pull it without having to possibly sell and purchase another truck with additional payments. ✌🏽
As someone who modifies everything I have but always for a purpose, I kinda hate bro trucks because I feel like they tarnish the community as a whole. I have done a lot to my truck all in the pursuit to make it more capable off-road. So I think that the people who build their vehicles for a purpose for whatever that is shouldn’t be looked at the same way someone is who just builds for looks.
Some modification is fine. If im looking at a truck and see a 2" lift with a block on the leaf springs and maybe a 1/2" spacer on the struts thats one thing but if i see a 4-6" RC lift and shoddy parts im walking away.
I remember the GM vehicles that had a wider track on the front than the rear, it seemed like the rear was always trying to move around on mud and snow rather than feel planted. I hated the one suburban I drove that was built that way.. Awesome video, refreshing to have someone talking about the importance of knowing your rig, your mods and how they are intended to work.
I was talking to a ram dealer about a new truck. They stated they only had a payload and towing grid and could not tell me how much it could tow or carry. So they told me that a well optioned Longhorn could carry and tow the maximum numbers Ram states is possible.
A basic two inch level with stock wheels/tires won’t cause too much trouble. Just don’t go over that as suspension components will start to have issues. You may notice the ride quality isn’t quite as good as stock but not much. Fuel economy will probably be similar you may lose a mpg or two on the highway. Now if you also add larger tires or different wheels things may change even more .
Do Dealerships account for the loss of payload when they have the special edition packages with the lift and tires for sale? I think ford has the black widow ones and what about the Roush Edition trucks as well?
I did a simple 2” leveling kit lift to my 2019 F150 King Ranch to take the factory Ford rake out of it and it totally screwed up the drive ability. Never again.
When buying a used vehicle bone stock is the way to go. No one wants to deal with modifications. Bone stock everything works like it's supposed to, all OE parts can be replaced as intended and will have the best reliability.
I modify my trucks, but I only do things that are reversible. When I sell it I put it back to stock, because you will always get more money for a stock / unmolested vehicle.
I think research and education makes THE difference. What is possible, the consequences, etc. I want to go with taller tires, but I know I will need a ring n pinion change. Newest vehicules are making harder with so many electronic sensors.
Modifications to your truck can ruin it's reliability. In sone cases Modifications will extend your trucks life. It all depends on what the mod is and what year, make, model and engine your truck has. Some mods when done automatically ruin your trucks factory warranty. So make sure you read this. In some cases that modification is way better then the factory part. But do you want to lose the warranty on everything else. If your truck is out of warranty do what you please with it. Keep in mind though that one cool mod may sacrifice your reliability. One think that can sacrifice the reliability real quick is lift kits and spacers on your tires. Something that may improve the reliability wpuld be a catch can. Make sure when they do the lift your drive shaft isn't tilted too much and is flat. The angle will cause major issues.
Some modifications are better than others. I usually put a tune, and trun off GMs torque mamagement. On my current truck, I built the transmission, up front. Full sized GM trucks won't send full throttle signals to the engine to protect the transmission. Just fixing the torque management, feels like I added a whole bunch of horsepower. You'll get almost a second 0-60. I don't tell people I modded my truck. All they know is my truck is a lot faster than the other trucks they've been test driving. I want my truck to look and sound stock. I also want it faster than 95% of other vehicles. GM's 6.2 realy responds well to turning off torque management. Becareful, since they're protecting the tansmission, you better understand if you need to rebuild the tranny, first. Lower gears also is a geat mod with todays transmissions. Gearing is importan, big tires screw up your gear ratio. Big tires w/o gears, will slow you down...a lot.
Absolutely. Anytime you take it out of stock form. You will have some sort of issue. Some things are minor. Some people could give 2 shits about having to change wheel bearings every 20k miles because they bought them at autozone with 3 year warranty.
I kind of agree with Andree about the axle's rated weight and why the combined axle rated weight generally exceeds the GVWR, but also wanted to add that even when you stop suddenly a lot of weight shifts from axle to axle. Also, I am pretty sure the truck manufacturers do underestimate the actual axle ratings to make sure that it will handle those sudden weight shifts or stupid people like me. Once I put 65 boxes of vinyl flooring in the bed of the truck, and we drove the truck over 140 miles. I did not realize then that each box was about 38 pounds and the overall vehicle with the occupants weighted over 10,500 lb. Yes, I am stupid. Nothing happened, but I would not do that again.
The biggest problem towing? 15 inch wheels / tires with heavy loads - 5500 lb axles - twin axles. Blew 1 or 2 tires on every trip. Solution: Buy a trailer with 16" wheels/tires stock. Converting to 16" after the fact = better to buy a new trailer.
I love all the people who say the Cybertruck can't be a real truck, because you can't reach into the bed from the side, and then they lift their trucks so you can't even see into the bed
The important thing no one considers anymore is the fine point of capabilities that these trucks have been engineered to achieve. 20 years ago, it was a "rough" capability that was easy to change with mods without moving the needle set by the maker. Today, they are engineered to work an extremely specific way and if you change that, you do so much harm to what it was designed for. But the biggest thing to come out of all this is .....looks. People mod things just for looks. They pretend it adds function but really, it's for looks. We laugh at NY fashion designers, but we are just as bad as truck owners. We need to change the wheels for a better look? Really? It's just a wheel!
Man I'm usually a live-and-let-live kind of freedom-first guy but .... Wheel spacers - or wheels with incorrect offset from the factory should be illegal due to the inherent safety risks that they introduce.
Last year i bent 3 rims ripped 3 tires hitting potholes on my stock hhr 3000lbs , 215/50 R17 tires wheels , my moddified truck 6000lbs with 35/12.5/15 tires can float right over those potholes and nothing happens to them .
your tires and wheels are the first part of your suspension system the distance your tire can flex compact from impacts such as potholes before it hits your wheel then bends it
My 2012 GMC 1500 came from the factory with BFG’s 255 / 75 16” in 2023 I had to get new tires at the tire shop they told me they no longer sell the same model tire the BFG’s they sold me has tread 2 1/2 inches down the inner and outer side walls I use my truck to tow my camper but these tires look silly and I’m not taking it any further off road than the camp site.
Do they engineer these trucks with safety factors like cranes and rigging? Engineers use the factors to prevent people from killing themselves using cranes and rigging by over loading. I wonder if auto engineers do the same thing. 5:1 safety factor for example: payload of 2000 can actually be 10,000lbs but it is only allowed to hold 2000lbs.
Lowering payload because of bigger tires makes no sense at all. I understand you loose towing capacity because of braking and overall weight limits but the payload is just about how much weight you put on top of your vehicle, your tires are already on the floor no matter what
Personally that's why I don't lift or do any modifications to my Toyota Tacoma... This is just my Outlook but Toyota has a little more money than I do for research & development, + the truck runs totally fine for what I need it's got me out of any situation I've been in. But again I don't go trying to get stuck in mud pits 😂 so I don't like my vehicle's modified & I don't like to purchase modified vehicles
If you want a truck to do anything, buy one designed from the factory that way. I bought a 2013 Rubicon new. Went up a tire size (50 to 70 lbs) and got the death wobble. Went back to stock size. Problem solved.
You don’t get death wobble from larger tires, but larger tires will certainly tell you through death wobble that you have worn components or bad alignment. Smaller tires, in effect, would just be a band aid for death wobble.
Interior or quality of life mods and upgrades = No. Factory part upgrades from higher trim levels= No. performance and 3rd party body replacements = Yes.
My view on these trucks with really big lifts and tires now afays do it just so that they can look cool! And show that they have money! If you are not rock crawling or hard core mudding you funny need a 20 in lift! At the most a mild leveling kit , would be best. If you put wheel spacers on be forewarned that you will see a 50-75 percent reduction in the lifetime of your suspension components your ball joints will wear out twice as fast and your tie rod ends will also wear out since they are under a much heavier load as well as the wheel studs may have to get replaced sooner then you think. As far as upgrading brakes I would say go to a big name brand company that sell everything complete! Back in the80's to the 90's majority of the lifted trucks on the road were for offroading. Nowadays it's just people trying to look cool. You also may want to check with you State for local lift laws , how big your tires are and how much they stick out before you can get stopped by a state patrol! As far as a vehicle being ruined it all depends on who lifted it and how they did it. Me personally I won't buy a lifted vehicle because I don't know the company that he used how he did it what else did he modify it if it's just a lift and nothing else, the only way that I will buy it is if I talk to the previous owner. If you did a modified truck you gave a 50/50 shot of it fails or if it's ok! Last thing is remember this when to lift a truck subtract 2-5% from your tow rating, add up the weight of the lift kit, rims and tries and subtract that from the payload, also change your suspension bushings ( includes front hubs and wheel studs) in stouny2-3 years they will wear out
agree with your opening comments except for what does the "Government have to say about it".. that doesn't matter ... what you do to your truck is none of the government's business
Should we just have a free-for-all with no regulations? Yep, let's run the roof top LED bars on the street. Let's remove the requirement for any muffler device whatsoever.
A little rediculious with suspension component mods scare. Build what’s suits your usage of the truck. Some factory component parts are cheap to save money from manufactures. Even engineers of this companies mod their personal vehicles because of that.
I guess it depends on the modification, and what the intended purposes is. I did a modest 2 inch level kit in the front, 1 inch block for the rear leaf spring on my ram, 3500. paid me back in huge dividends as far as improving the “toughness“ of the truck. But I would definitely go no higher as hooking up a gooseneck would definitely be a problem. also, to make it “correct“ I should probably get an adjustable front differential track bar.🤔
What happens? You make the truck worse by almost every metric. Slower, handles worse, brakes worse, less safe, less efficient but it looks cool and might me better once a year when you drive through a ditch or up a dirt road.
I think everyone would agree when your shopping for a used truck a good, clean, unmodified one always gets more attention.
Nope. No one wants a stock truck. Boring. It's not a real truck until it's properly accessorized.
@@kendall959I would argue that ideally, many people want to buy a truck as close to stock as possible and make those mods themselves.
Yes, I won't look at a modified truck. You think engineers are bad? Watch what back yard mechanics will try to get away with.
I tend to agree, except it certainly depends on the types and degrees of modification. For example, a different type of tire from the factory is a modification.
So you wouldn't consider a modified truck from a well-known aftermarket company (Roush, Hennessey, etc)?
Some modifications are reasonable (stereo system, interior modifications, computer reprogramming, etc). However some modifications are just a joke (e.g. Brodozers).
@@phild9813
Manufacturers and the U.S. Government don’t consider using a tire of the same size and meeting the same requirements as a modification. If that were the case, they could deny warranty based on the modification. They can’t because it isn’t.
Changing to a different size can change the loading on wheel bearings and alter the suspension geometry. That is a modification.
Not a chance. I'm a design engineer that gets plenty of blame. We design to qualified specifications not backyard mechanic desires. Many backyard mechanics do a great job at mods, we just can't get away with that due to legalities. And probably for good reason
Keep in mind, your weight carrying capacity is limited to the lowest maximum capacity of your combination of components. Let’s pick your front steer axle. You have the capacity of each tire, each wheel, each spring, the axle (or axles) and the rating of the truck itself at that position. Plus, you also often have 2 tire capacity ratings on tires. One limit for a single installation, and a second and lower limit for a dual wheel tire operation.
The stock configuration of these trucks is actually pretty amazing. If I hook up a gooseneck to my 2018 ram 3500 single wheel the amazing thing is that the entire truck gets pressed down. I added a toolbox in a diesel, transfer tank that necessitated getting a offset gooseneck ball, and guess what? Just that alone threw off the dynamic of the total load compression and I’ve got to be a little bit more careful now with where the load is placed on the gooseneck trailer.🤔
Crazy how people complain about other people's builds. If you're buying a truck, do whatever you want with it.
Theoretically you can in a free country. Righhhhhhhttttttt peooooppleeee? 😭😅
With regards to upgrading brakes - I literally just did this job this past weekend. I replaced the OEM system on my truck - with another OEM system. I took the brake system off of a Alpha H1 and put it on my non Alpha H1. It's still a factory setup but its 100% identical to what the factory did for the "upgraded" version of my truck.
I used to pull doubles for FedEx !! I always looked at rookies pulling trailers and campers with a wary eye !!
Modifying any vehicle almost always ruins it.
ur right
So 1,000hp vette is ruined?
Except in situations where things have been regulated into shit and crap so modifying it actually improves it
The issue with lifted trucks on big tires is not only wear and tear on components but also with reported mileage at the time of purchase. With a bigger tire, the truck reported mileage is lower then it really is.
If your truck came with 31" tire from the factory and you immediately change them to 33", that is about 6% more tire circumference. Which means truck drove extra 6 miles for every 100miles that is indicated on the odometer. Close to 8.8% when on 35" tires. If I did my math right.
A modified 6.0 powerstroke is more reliable than a stock one. It depends on the modification
My truck is heavilyyyyy modified... tinted windows. Led headlights. Tonneau cover andddd All terrain tires! Its like Xzhibit got his hands on it 😂
Those aren’t real mods in my book, only when you cut the body or replace bumpers or suspension
Xzhibit 😂🤘
Thats outrageous !!! You truly are a dangerous person !!! How dare you !!!
Crap on ford all you wamt but at least if you put abed cover on it you can see out the back window still with it closed unlike the cybertruck
I went from the stock 245/75R16 tires to 265/75R16 tires. Even that little difference could be felt. Gas mileage went down about 1 mile per gallon and the way the brakes feel changed. But, it looks so much better than the smaller stock tires and the increased ground clearance is obvious.
The cost we all pay for the drip bro
That's called a compromise
@Bikes0420It’s probably not even that since the tires will compress down more with the higher sidewall.
There are work trucks and "Play" trucks. Play trucks are not for truck tasks like hauling heavy cargo or towing heavy. Both are valid and useful, but very different use cases.
Good discussion. Lots to consider that folks may not think about. For offroading, I added sliders, skids, and lift to my 4Runner. Very happy with those mods and I can now do lots of trails in CO/Moab. However, it may make sense to keep my stock tire size since going bigger only provides 1/2” or 1” additional clearance. Trying to decide if that justifies the extra weight and wear.
On stock suspension if you plan to off road regularly there's nothing wrong with going with an jnch taller tire. Gaining some sidewall is nice too, but you get a little less road feel and a squishier ride.
This os what cracks me up when tacoma trd pros are made into overlanders. Already no payload then they add an obscene amount of weight before they even get in.
The few mods I have done to my truck was replacing the regular bulbs with the LED ones (I skipped the turning signal ones), I installed Firestone airbags, tonneau cover, Line-X bedliner, and the tailgate actuator to lock the truck bed. I have a 21 Tundra. However, even the LED bulbs can create a lot of problems, so I would not recommend that. Everything else is standard. The last thing I am going to install is the transmission cooler and I am done messing around.
Good comments about truck mods that actually hurt the load capacity and performance, nice to know you guys have the integrity to get that information out.
If the modifications you are making are intended to improve the utility of the truck for your use case, you will probably be rewarded for those modifications when it comes to resale because buyers who also need that additional utility will appreciate it, but if your modifications are purely cosmetic, finding a buyer who wants those same modifications might be difficult.
The front versus rear axle weight rating is to provide customers with an idea of how much they can load on either side. Example: snow plow. However, the total gross vehicle weight rating does not change.🤔
Thank you for touching on the speedometer comment. Not all of course, but in my opinion a sizeable amount of lifted truck owners drive aggressively to begin with...but if their speedometer is off by 5 or 10 mph? The road rage, hand gestures, tailgating, and unsafe passing maneuvers are insane because they think traffic in front of them is going slower than they actually are.
Could also be certain people that like to camp in the passing lanes holding up traffic, that are the reason
@@jaimeramirez6407 I agree you should keep right except to pass in multi lane highway situations. But if left lane traffic is actually doing 80+ actively passing traffic on the right doing 75 (75 speed limit zone), there is no justification for a lifted 6000 lb truck to be within 2 feet of a car doing 80 mph if their speedometer inaccurately reads 70. Lifted truck drivers tend be in the same category as "credit card captains" in boating.
I bought a 2003 Tahoe that had 2018 Silverado factory wheels and tires on it. 265/65/18 Goodyears to be exact. I put a leveling kit on it almost immediately and then bought a set of wheels and tires. 305/55/20 (33") Mickey Thompson all terrains with a 20x12 wheel which had a -44mm offset. To accommodate fitment in the front I had to trim the front bumper, as well as the inner fender liner. I also had to give up my windshield washer reservoir because my tire rubbed against it at full lock. There were no fitment issues in the back. I never had significant issues, but my gas mileage went to shite, my rig was always dirty from the tires throwing dirt all over the body. I also got pulled over because my state laws say tires cannot protrude beyond the fender. I was given a warning. Because I saw so many other trucks that were the same, I ignored the warning and was never stopped again. The ride was much stiffer than the tires I replaced because the all terrains were 10ply. The tires lasted 85k miles and I didn't want to pay the $2-3k to replace them, so I put the tires it came with back on. It drove so much better. However, things didn't end there. After 6 months, I decided to go down and lowered the vehicle 3" and put factory GM 22" wheels and tires on it. My gas mileage is far better than when truck was raised with the all terrains but I had camber issues in the front and ended buying new upper control arms with an extra 2 degrees of camber adjustment to keep the tires riding flat on the ground.
The TLDR is that your vehicle just works better in its factory configuration. You can add modifications that stay within a certain envelope and don't change how your vehicle functions.
You'd be amazed to see what we placed in trucks in Jamaica, and those Toyotas and Mitsubishis just never stopped giving
Modifying is great as long as it works for what you need it to do. Got my Yukon Denali is lifted on 35s and does great in the nw trails here in WA for play and camping. No regrets!
Brakes: Slotted and drilled rotors are great at upgrading your brakes without much additional work.
Couldn’t have said it better , lifted Ram 1500 on 35’s and falcon suspension . I overland in California a ton
My 2014 tacoma is heavily modified but not for offroad. It works beautifully with current mods, but it took some time to learn a few leasons.
With snugtop bed canopy, adding any additional load would bottom out the rear suspension. Had to add an extra leaf. Works so much better for towing a trailer.
Added an ARB steel bull bumper for a commute over coastal mountain and needed to add heavier springs for added front end load. Changed all shocks to ARB.
Because of heavier bumper and trailer weight, upgraded front rotors and breaks.
The truck now has 147k miles and drives so good on curves with overall stiffer suspension, but way too stiff offroad. These days, I drop tire pressure down to 15psi for a softer trail handling.
Overall, full-size trucks may have been better in stock form but would not fit backyard access for trailer storage and would not be as capable offroad.
I standby my mods as they improved the truck for my use case. I'm not interested in the sell price or added cost of mods. Bought it new and the truck has been paid off for a long time. Still on original 16" rims and running 32" tires.
It's great that you think it rides better but the mods you did downgraded your trucks overall ability. If a group of engineers recalculated the specs of your truck, you'd be shocked at how much you affected it.
@@ryansheard8092
Looks like I should have explained my issue with this point of view.
I 100% agree that there is a reaction for every action. Whatever vehicle modification you make will effect other components when it comes to the rating value assigned by the factory / engineers.
The issue here is the statement "it is wrong and misleading". Truck rating is developed to cover the average costumer who knows no better.
Modifying the vehicle with a perpose is what manufacturers do as well and they adjust the ratings. An average person needs to know physics, mechanical engineering and able to understand logic.
When Setting up / improing the vehicle for added load and towing, other things will be effected like: suspension articulation, center of gravity and vehicle weight.
The point is knowing what my vehicle capabilities after modification.
Increasing tire size must be followed up with transfer case gearing swap, upgraded breaks, lift for tire travel, spacers for driveline, sway bar and so on...
Understanding your mods is the point and not expecting the truck to be the same after a change.
Thank you guys for 3 hours of amazing content from all your channels this morning.
Only thing I did was slightly larger tires & leveling kit on my ram 2500 cumins. I used stock rims & 3/16 spacer plates. I lost 2mpg mileage. I use waze app to check speed was off by 2. BTW I'm sure engineers will say debadging causes problems
For hd trucks, the base models typically come with 17” wheels and 32” or 33” tires. You can get 20s w/34” tires on other packages. Are the base models running entirely different axles, brakes, and other components? The only difference I am aware of are the leaf spring packs. Otherwise, the components are generally the same. Obviously you see more differences between gas and diesel, dually and srw, but I don’t see how going from 33” to 35” will reduce payload for most trucks.
Going with bigger tires reduces payload on the truck out of the factory. Go look at the warlock payload vs the tradesman.
The best wheel and tire size for any given truck is the stock recommendation or options, available for the truck in question from the factory.
The best for off road? I would strongly disagree. The best for fuel mileage and street driving? Sure, I’ll buy your premise.
Based on how common it is, the illegal offset flinging debris back is an advertisement and not a deterrent
mods are great if done properly when you lift how you lift it changes headlights steering towing capacity fuel milage visibility you need to evaluate what your needs are first and do it right.
😂😂.....the only way to "do it right" would be to have an engineer evaluate everything you're doing and recalculate every specific of the vehicle. Your towing capacity, payload and overall ability of your truck will take a massive hit. Period.
Actually in Australia the big F trucks can be registered as a truck which allows big modifications, like massive tyres and big lift.
But you need a truck license to drive them.
Light vehicles are very hard to highly modify though depending on the state.
They are bringing up sone good points people should consider when modifying their vehicle's. Even stuff I didn't know.
A TFL Australian journey would be awesome.
With a CarExpert/Paul Maric colab 👍
The only thing I do to my truck is slap aftermarket wheels and a level kit on it. The trucks are pretty amazing as is.
As a retired vegetable farmer I have seen others put a one ton pallet of produce on the back end of a 1500 pickup. It's a dumb thing to do. That's why we all owned larger gvw flatbed trucks. Use the right tool for the job people or just make two trips!
One of the most informative videos that have seen. Thanks
58:40 Living in somewhat still free states and getting as far away from places like CA solves SO MANY problems.
before watching - depends on the modification and the definition of "ruined"
for example if you have something track focused and you put on lighter rims with better tires, that will probably not ruin the vehicle because you've replaced a part with another one that is virtually better in every respect the next owner would care about, unless the rims are really ugly.
giving a truck a small lift, would also most likely not ruin it because there are some draw backs (like lower fuel economy) but for most buyers that's fine because it's not something they care about. plus the pay off of the look and increased performance in areas they care about, probably outweighs the downside
if on the other hand you put on a junkyard turbo that cause the car to constantly over heat any time you try to use it, that would be ruining it because there's no upside and if anything you've inconvenienced the next owner.
How does bigger wheels affect your speedometer ?
Great talk show gentlemen. On the topic of overbuying or overkilling it in terms of too much truck vs trailer.
I recently purchased a Ram Laramie Crew Cab 3500 Diesel Dually to tow our 10,000 lb fully loaded Toy Hauler. This took care of several issues. The first as you said the truck would have plenty of power to pull additional weight while having more than enough stopping power as well. The other issue was if we ever wanted to upgrade travel trailers or to a 5th wheel we’d have the truck to pull it without having to possibly sell and purchase another truck with additional payments.
✌🏽
As someone who modifies everything I have but always for a purpose, I kinda hate bro trucks because I feel like they tarnish the community as a whole. I have done a lot to my truck all in the pursuit to make it more capable off-road. So I think that the people who build their vehicles for a purpose for whatever that is shouldn’t be looked at the same way someone is who just builds for looks.
Some modification is fine. If im looking at a truck and see a 2" lift with a block on the leaf springs and maybe a 1/2" spacer on the struts thats one thing but if i see a 4-6" RC lift and shoddy parts im walking away.
I remember the GM vehicles that had a wider track on the front than the rear, it seemed like the rear was always trying to move around on mud and snow rather than feel planted. I hated the one suburban I drove that was built that way.. Awesome video, refreshing to have someone talking about the importance of knowing your rig, your mods and how they are intended to work.
I was talking to a ram dealer about a new truck. They stated they only had a payload and towing grid and could not tell me how much it could tow or carry. So they told me that a well optioned Longhorn could carry and tow the maximum numbers Ram states is possible.
I have a 1500 series GMC stock, i do want the front end leveled. What would be the down side?
A basic two inch level with stock wheels/tires won’t cause too much trouble. Just don’t go over that as suspension components will start to have issues. You may notice the ride quality isn’t quite as good as stock but not much. Fuel economy will probably be similar you may lose a mpg or two on the highway.
Now if you also add larger tires or different wheels things may change even more .
In California where I live, half of them are just for show 😂
Way more than half.
90%
It’s the same in Elvis country
Same in the Evergreen State
My 2023 xl powerboost 2wd came stock with P245/70R17 tires. I prefer the look of a larger tire but can’t justify the downgrade. Such is life
I had a 3/4 ton tow truck and when it was all said and done, it looked like the hunchback of Notre Dame. Don't overload your truck people!
Do Dealerships account for the loss of payload when they have the special edition packages with the lift and tires for sale? I think ford has the black widow ones and what about the Roush Edition trucks as well?
The Roush trucks are 100% engineered and tested and certified. The Black Widow, I don't know.
Now days there's No reason to modify it. Just get the right trim from the factory. Tremor, AT4x whatever....
Why people are buying 2500 and 3500 HD trucks. No start/stop or cylinder deactivation.
*The Greatest Gift you can give to Your Vehicle, is Proper Maintenance*
I did a simple 2” leveling kit lift to my 2019 F150 King Ranch to take the factory Ford rake out of it and it totally screwed up the drive ability. Never again.
What lift did you do?? That shouldn’t do much
When buying a used vehicle bone stock is the way to go. No one wants to deal with modifications.
Bone stock everything works like it's supposed to, all OE parts can be replaced as intended and will have the best reliability.
The phrase "you spent a lot of money devaluating your vehicle" is a thing.
I want to put Banks tuner and gages on mine, then perhaps pedal monster if I feel like I need it.
I don’t like low profile tires on trucks but a 24” rim with a low profile tire is still much taller than stock not to mention 26” rims.
Freedom is dangerous and not for the weak. I love everyones independent choices in modifications for vehicles.
I modify my trucks, but I only do things that are reversible. When I sell it I put it back to stock, because you will always get more money for a stock / unmolested vehicle.
I think research and education makes THE difference. What is possible, the consequences, etc. I want to go with taller tires, but I know I will need a ring n pinion change. Newest vehicules are making harder with so many electronic sensors.
Modifications to your truck can ruin it's reliability. In sone cases Modifications will extend your trucks life. It all depends on what the mod is and what year, make, model and engine your truck has. Some mods when done automatically ruin your trucks factory warranty. So make sure you read this. In some cases that modification is way better then the factory part. But do you want to lose the warranty on everything else. If your truck is out of warranty do what you please with it. Keep in mind though that one cool mod may sacrifice your reliability. One think that can sacrifice the reliability real quick is lift kits and spacers on your tires. Something that may improve the reliability wpuld be a catch can. Make sure when they do the lift your drive shaft isn't tilted too much and is flat. The angle will cause major issues.
Some modifications are better than others. I usually put a tune, and trun off GMs torque mamagement. On my current truck, I built the transmission, up front. Full sized GM trucks won't send full throttle signals to the engine to protect the transmission. Just fixing the torque management, feels like I added a whole bunch of horsepower. You'll get almost a second 0-60. I don't tell people I modded my truck. All they know is my truck is a lot faster than the other trucks they've been test driving. I want my truck to look and sound stock. I also want it faster than 95% of other vehicles. GM's 6.2 realy responds well to turning off torque management. Becareful, since they're protecting the tansmission, you better understand if you need to rebuild the tranny, first. Lower gears also is a geat mod with todays transmissions. Gearing is importan, big tires screw up your gear ratio. Big tires w/o gears, will slow you down...a lot.
If you get slightly bigger tires but not big enough to require modifications or trimming, would this affect the speedometer and braking?
Absolutely. Anytime you take it out of stock form. You will have some sort of issue. Some things are minor. Some people could give 2 shits about having to change wheel bearings every 20k miles because they bought them at autozone with 3 year warranty.
Slightly bigger tires will slightly impact Speedo and braking. And interpretation of slightly could be subjective.
Probably not enough for 99% of people to notice, but it would definitely have an impact.
My grandfather taught me you can build a car/truck for 'show' or for 'go'. He was never a fan of show, and wouldn't you know that, neither am !.
I'm not opposed to tasteful mods. Although hitting the sport button on my F150 makes it such a beast I almost don't care if I get tunes. Almost.
I kind of agree with Andree about the axle's rated weight and why the combined axle rated weight generally exceeds the GVWR, but also wanted to add that even when you stop suddenly a lot of weight shifts from axle to axle. Also, I am pretty sure the truck manufacturers do underestimate the actual axle ratings to make sure that it will handle those sudden weight shifts or stupid people like me. Once I put 65 boxes of vinyl flooring in the bed of the truck, and we drove the truck over 140 miles. I did not realize then that each box was about 38 pounds and the overall vehicle with the occupants weighted over 10,500 lb. Yes, I am stupid. Nothing happened, but I would not do that again.
tasteful builds exist and absolutely make trucks better. There's also a lot of tasteless mods that do ruin trucks.
"make trucks better" is very subjective. Very few do that otherwise the manufacturer would already have done it.
The biggest problem towing? 15 inch wheels / tires with heavy loads - 5500 lb axles - twin axles. Blew 1 or 2 tires on every trip. Solution: Buy a trailer with 16" wheels/tires stock. Converting to 16" after the fact = better to buy a new trailer.
I put on shorty antenna 😅
I love all the people who say the Cybertruck can't be a real truck, because you can't reach into the bed from the side, and then they lift their trucks so you can't even see into the bed
Good stuff guys. Thanks! 😎👍
This was great thanks guys.
Buy a ZR2 with the lift and tires you want.
The worst are squatted trucks. Really can’t stand how a dangerous setup is even allowed in most states.
Modifications ruin the vehicle sometimes but will ruin the bank account every time
Plus ruin the resale because nobody wants the modification you did.
The important thing no one considers anymore is the fine point of capabilities that these trucks have been engineered to achieve. 20 years ago, it was a "rough" capability that was easy to change with mods without moving the needle set by the maker. Today, they are engineered to work an extremely specific way and if you change that, you do so much harm to what it was designed for. But the biggest thing to come out of all this is .....looks. People mod things just for looks. They pretend it adds function but really, it's for looks. We laugh at NY fashion designers, but we are just as bad as truck owners. We need to change the wheels for a better look? Really? It's just a wheel!
Manufacturers allow for small modifications to vehicles but not major ones.
Lifts, spacers, $5k wheels, aftermarket subwoofer - all things that drive away buyers faster than a dodgy Carfax.
Man I'm usually a live-and-let-live kind of freedom-first guy but .... Wheel spacers - or wheels with incorrect offset from the factory should be illegal due to the inherent safety risks that they introduce.
Last year i bent 3 rims ripped 3 tires hitting potholes on my stock hhr 3000lbs , 215/50 R17 tires wheels , my moddified truck 6000lbs with 35/12.5/15 tires can float right over those potholes and nothing happens to them .
your tires and wheels are the first part of your suspension system the distance your tire can flex compact from impacts such as potholes before it hits your wheel then bends it
In Quebec Canada
Max lift is 1.5 inches and Max tire size is 35"
Nobody in Quebec measures that 😂 Jeeps on 37's or more. 4 inch lift is ftequent as a standard. Merci pour les informations.
My 2012 GMC 1500 came from the factory with BFG’s 255 / 75 16” in 2023 I had to get new tires at the tire shop they told me they no longer sell the same model tire the BFG’s they sold me has tread 2 1/2 inches down the inner and outer side walls I use my truck to tow my camper but these tires look silly and I’m not taking it any further off road than the camp site.
Do they engineer these trucks with safety factors like cranes and rigging? Engineers use the factors to prevent people from killing themselves using cranes and rigging by over loading. I wonder if auto engineers do the same thing. 5:1 safety factor for example: payload of 2000 can actually be 10,000lbs but it is only allowed to hold 2000lbs.
Putting low profile tires on 4x4 trucks is unintelligent. So is putting significantly oversized tires on and not regearing the axles.
and modification to the stock exhaust system cuts power and gas milage by 20 % or more ,
I’m not going to reengineer a product unless I have good evidence that reengineering addresses a problem the manufacturer errored on in the design.
Lowering payload because of bigger tires makes no sense at all. I understand you loose towing capacity because of braking and overall weight limits but the payload is just about how much weight you put on top of your vehicle, your tires are already on the floor no matter what
Personally that's why I don't lift or do any modifications to my Toyota Tacoma... This is just my Outlook but Toyota has a little more money than I do for research & development, + the truck runs totally fine for what I need it's got me out of any situation I've been in. But again I don't go trying to get stuck in mud pits 😂 so I don't like my vehicle's modified & I don't like to purchase modified vehicles
you guys just described every truck in western OK
If you want a truck to do anything, buy one designed from the factory that way. I bought a 2013 Rubicon new. Went up a tire size (50 to 70 lbs) and got the death wobble. Went back to stock size. Problem solved.
You don’t get death wobble from larger tires, but larger tires will certainly tell you through death wobble that you have worn components or bad alignment. Smaller tires, in effect, would just be a band aid for death wobble.
Interior or quality of life mods and upgrades = No. Factory part upgrades from higher trim levels= No. performance and 3rd party body replacements = Yes.
What do they have in Russia?
For speed you can have google maps and if you are under clear sky's you can see your actual speed compare to your spedometer and figure the difference
Tons of options for figuring out speedometer changes. This is barely worth mentioning.
Bigger tires will change the gearing.
My view on these trucks with really big lifts and tires now afays do it just so that they can look cool! And show that they have money! If you are not rock crawling or hard core mudding you funny need a 20 in lift! At the most a mild leveling kit , would be best. If you put wheel spacers on be forewarned that you will see a 50-75 percent reduction in the lifetime of your suspension components your ball joints will wear out twice as fast and your tie rod ends will also wear out since they are under a much heavier load as well as the wheel studs may have to get replaced sooner then you think. As far as upgrading brakes I would say go to a big name brand company that sell everything complete! Back in the80's to the 90's majority of the lifted trucks on the road were for offroading. Nowadays it's just people trying to look cool. You also may want to check with you State for local lift laws , how big your tires are and how much they stick out before you can get stopped by a state patrol! As far as a vehicle being ruined it all depends on who lifted it and how they did it. Me personally I won't buy a lifted vehicle because I don't know the company that he used how he did it what else did he modify it if it's just a lift and nothing else, the only way that I will buy it is if I talk to the previous owner. If you did a modified truck you gave a 50/50 shot of it fails or if it's ok! Last thing is remember this when to lift a truck subtract 2-5% from your tow rating, add up the weight of the lift kit, rims and tries and subtract that from the payload, also change your suspension bushings ( includes front hubs and wheel studs) in stouny2-3 years they will wear out
agree with your opening comments except for what does the "Government have to say about it".. that doesn't matter ... what you do to your truck is none of the government's business
Should we just have a free-for-all with no regulations? Yep, let's run the roof top LED bars on the street. Let's remove the requirement for any muffler device whatsoever.
Making your truck look better so more guys like it….😂
A little rediculious with suspension component mods scare. Build what’s suits your usage of the truck. Some factory component parts are cheap to save money from manufactures. Even engineers of this companies mod their personal vehicles because of that.
the more you modify your truck the more devalues .and the more money you want when trying to sell it
Death wobble?
I guess it depends on the modification, and what the intended purposes is. I did a modest 2 inch level kit in the front, 1 inch block for the rear leaf spring on my ram, 3500. paid me back in huge dividends as far as improving the “toughness“ of the truck. But I would definitely go no higher as hooking up a gooseneck would definitely be a problem. also, to make it “correct“ I should probably get an adjustable front differential track bar.🤔
What happens? You make the truck worse by almost every metric. Slower, handles worse, brakes worse, less safe, less efficient but it looks cool and might me better once a year when you drive through a ditch or up a dirt road.