Cards That Quietly Win Games | Commander Clash Podcast 143
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 มิ.ย. 2024
- These cards may not look terribly flashy, but they put in work towards winning the game.
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#MTG #MagicTheGathering #Commander #CommanderClash
0:00 intro
2:34 Open the Way
10:18 Sea Gate Restoration
17:40 Curse of Opulence
21:10 Blind Obedience
25:37 Propaganda
29:27 Skullwinder
34:28 Sergeant John Benton
40:47 The Meathook Massacre
44:31 Field of the Dead
53:00 Land Tax
1:03:55 Sword of Body and Mind and Mesmeric Orb
1:09:39 outro - เกม
There are a number of players that don’t realize that Blind Obedience can be played in ANY white deck, even mono-white.
is that true? I thought since it has the orzhov symbol you cant
Yes it's true the hybrid mana symbol is reminder text so it's not included in the color identity
Is there alot of other effects like exort that bypass this rule ??
@@Midragor Not that I know of
Came to say this.
Reminder text (in brackets) does not count towards colour identity.
Open the Way's true secret power is you don't have to shuffle afterward
Honestly the upside of that is real.
I thought shuffling was a good thing? Can you explain why you wouldn't want to shuffle after that play?
@xaxscratchxax926 So the power reason - generally if you scry a card to the bottom it's not one you want again. It also gives you a bunch of deck knowledge to know that you won't see X or Y card, which can inform play patterns.
But the practical reason is that commander decks are big and shuffling sucks.
If you don't shuffle, though, you don't get the deck-thinning benefit you do from other forms of land ramp...
Deck thinning operates on basis points and is rapidly outpaced by deck knowledge
'You're leaving so much power on the table!" Richard says talking about a land that lets you pay 4 mana to amass 1
🤣
After all the basic/nonbasic debate I expect Tomer to come back next season with a temur deck running blood moon, back to basics, wave of vitriol, from the ashes and ruination
I would love that
I love wave of vitriol so much, non basic land hate really needs to make a comeback
Richard's Field of the Dead defense is MtG's equivalent to the OJ Acquittal
If the glove don't fit you must acquit.
I’m glad Seth shouted out all MDFC lands, I put 1-4 of them in basically every deck. I would have picked Bala Ged Recovery as the card for winning silently though. I’ve played it as the sanctuary so many times, but I’ve pulled my wincon out of my graveyard just as often.
Double for Ondu Inversion. What a game changing topdeck that I'm happy to play as a turn 1 land.
Agreed. Bala Ged Recovery, Valakut Awakening, Malakir Rebirth, Hagra Mauling, and Sea Gate Restoration are free rolls in pretty much any deck with those colors. Others like Jwari Disruption and Sejiri Shelter are situationally good in some decks. I'll even play Kazuul's Fury as a way to fling something for the final bit of damage lol.
Meticulous excavation works amazing with MDF lands. Play them early and rebuild them later.
@@Razdasoldier that card looks awful
@@jaredwright1655 it is one of the only cards in white to rebuy a land.
Tomer, I think it's time for you to start playing blood moon effects to show them the power of basics! Lol
100%, maybe these effects should just be normalised across the format anyway. Unless play suuuper casual decks
(Tomer here) I generally avoid "stax" cards (strong mana-denial). I'd argue that there's already plenty of reasons to run basics, like Land Tax, basic land ramp, High Tide, etc.
@@BudgetCommanderStreams I understand...but please will you play it just once?!? It would be so funny! 😂 make them respect basics! Lol
@@BudgetCommanderStreams You've just gotta break out werewolves again. They can't be mad at a moon card in werewolves.
@@Kestral287 Based
Tomer's face when Richard said he runs 4 basics in his mono black deck! I feel you, Tomer! I love basics!
I unironically run 18 basics in my jund deck
I've come to the conclusion that playing broken utility lands is basically exploiting the bug of the format of lands being untouchable.
Yeah, if I see people playing utility lands, I designated them a viable target for all the land destruction that I run but don't always play.
The community makes it a feature 😢
Targeted land destruction is ok. Only destroying all lands is bad. If your mana screwing someone your bad. If you are answering a card giving them value then your fine.
Just blow them up. If land destruction furthers your game plan and puts your opponents behind, that’s just good play, taking advantage of strengths that come with it.
Running urza’s sylex in every white deck is becoming more and more necessary, I wish there were more effects like this
No one know about Open the Way cause it’s from March of the Machines: Aftermath.
Also, Blind Obedience is a mono-W card, not an Orzhov card. (Technically)
Personally i belive it is realy strong but i generally just dont ever play "midgame ramp" so it doesn't fit my decks.
I am curious as to why no one plays The Ring Goes South. With two legends on the battlefield it is the same and with more it gets even better.
@@Shimatzu95I mean technically it could be a “cultivate” which I hope is earlier in the game
Lands utility being the fact where you cant play basics actually is part of the reason commander is no longer casual because as according to Seth and Richard you have an automatic 2/3 of your land base you have to play in every deck.
I really don’t like that they say lands are “untouchable”. Like, yeah mass land destruction is frowned upon and rightly so. But a little bit of targeted land destruction to get rid of actually troublesome lands like maze of Ith, field of the dead, glacial casm, etc. I think is perfectly fine. Like how Seth with occasional play the miser strip mine to deal with certain lands that are a problem. Lands shouldn’t be considered untouchable, it should just be bad sportsmanship to mass land wipe, especially repeatedly.
Tomer, the crew thinks any card that requires you to play basics are bad because they refuse to play non greedy mana bases
I think we know the answer then. Tomer needs to go full ponza and red prison. Bring on the Blood Moon and Ruination!
@@monhunfox1401 Blood moon and price of progress under isochron scepter. Lets see how many games it will take for everyone to go 20+ basics
Add a little green for Wave of Vitriol “you guys get to replace you lands with basics, see? What’s that? You have none? Boo hoo”
Richard really is screaming at all of you to play Ruination.
Tomer really should build a deck with Ruination, Price of Progress, Blood Moon, etc just to remind everyone why they should play basics.
Edit: Crim did a pretty good job demonstrating on the most recent commander clash lol
As a 5 Color player with 10 fetches, 10 triomes and 10 OG duals...
Im crying already
@@captainnermy5608play Fr9m the Ashes yo rub their lack of basics in their faces like "wow if you played basic lands you wouldn't have a problem."
@@YBladeY *Laughs in Ritual of Subdual*
@CromwellMTG I'm adding that to my cart, card's funny.
The second I play a field of the dead blind obedience or mesmeric orb the entire table starts beating the life out of me what do you mean quietly😭
Boardwipe them, can't kill you if they don't have creatures and the ones they do have come in tapped while you're draining life.
The crew is off base compared to general edh standards when it comes to obsession with non basics that sometimes have only marginal value. They’re like - oh but why would you play basics and leave power on the table. Geez don’t you do it with literally all the other areas? Staples, optimal plays, combos, we all select things out to reduce power in casual commander. But no basics get them going crazy
I mean, in a mono colored deck that isn't mono black, it's hard.to justify more than 15 basics in the deck when so many utility lands are cheap and powerful
@@jaredwright1655 15 is much closer to reality for most players tbh. That leaves you with say 20? Utility lands, maybe it’s worth it. But except for Tomer I hey literally use 14 more slots and have like 1 basic
Love the pod. I could listen to you guys talk about how to do your taxes, fantastic chemistry.
Their off topic cast was an all timer for that reason.
57:00 I'm with Tomer on this one haha. I haven't updated my decks with new lands in a while, but even my spikiest 3 Color deck has 4 of each basic. The crews Numbers seem a bit exaggerated
I have a 2 color deck with 4 basics... :D
Yeah I guess they like having lands enter tapped or spending a thousand dollars on mediocre mana bases
My 5 color decks have 2 of each basic, it works great
I don't believe you. 5 colors with 10 basics. How many lands total? I'm imaging multiple games where you don't have the color you need.
@@xaxscratchxax926 the painbow precon has 2 of each and it works fine.
For me recently it has been Leadership vacuum!!!! You have an indestructible Commander, with flying, menace, and two of the swords with protection from you colors swinging at you for game. Leadership vacuum puts it back to the command zone unless the player has protection from you (which nobody does). Nasty especially with all this power creep and Ward and all that!!! Have fun!
Yup, plus commander tax still adds up for the next time they want to cast their commander.
ikr it also draws a card which is nuts
i agree with tomer about sea gate restoration. also, most of the time when you get to the 7 mana needed for it, your hand is mostly empty. it becomes a 7 mana draw 1 or maybe 2 cards, and you have no max hand size.... huzzah.
Yeah, unless you have draw engines and such going already, it’s not doing much. If it wasn’t an MDFC, it would just be a win-more card. It still is.
That doesn’t mean it’s not one of my favorite cards though. I remember one game where I got down to around ~4 cards in library, and it was down to a 1v1 (was playing Locust God + Wheels) and I ripped a sea gate off the top, and think “oh, this’ll be how I get my tokens going to maybe close out the game!” And I cast it without thinking… Drew 5 and died lmao.
You are talking about a player group where the meta decided that putting reliquary tower on every single deck was the correct play. They are drawing so many cards each game they are at risk of decking themselves out. In this cases, it is a draw 10
I can say I don’t play Open the Way because I’ve never seen one at the table and barely paid attention to Aftermath. I’ll give it a try in my Maja landfall deck for sure.
If you have a landfall deck it's a must because it just gets out of hand playing this let me have landfall triggers on the board.
@@tko_5 yeah, Maja is a 5 drop so even with ramp she gets going a little slowly, untapping and ramping 4 lands for 4 immediate creatures seems great.
I kept seeing aftermath at Walmart when it came out. Decided that 4 dollars for a 5 card booster(or however many it was) wasn't worth it and completely forgot the set happened at all.
Might want to check out the ring goes South also. Seems like it could trigger many landfall if you have a good bit of legends
I don't call these cards quiet. If you are playing in paper and have to keep reminding people to lose a life (meathook, blind obedience) or pay the extra 2 (propaganda, smothering tithe) then they actively get annoyed and will collaborate to make it stop.
The obsession of the crew with non basic land is so funny because if you play irl you realize people mostly play 90% basic 😂
People are budget limited and it generally seems more fun to buy the flashy/synergy cards foryour deck rather than drop $50++ on just improving the land base. But if you proxy (with/without limits) land bases are free to improve and won't be touched much/at all in commander. The better objective deck design, if the pay to win element is ignored, is to run as few basics as possible to make room for MDFCs and superior color fixing lands.
@@Byteside546 I proxy every card of my decks and I proxy on average 20 basics each time. I dont want to take 30 minutes constructing a mana bases, lands are not fun
Really depends on the playgroup. In my local meta most 3+ color decks run almost no basics.
For my playgroup once you get past 2 colors there are maybe 1 of each basic. There are two many lands that cone in untapped and grant at least 2 mana
@@avall0nNn1992if it was my meets I'd start playing From the Ashes lol. Ruination is too mean, but if you don't play basics you really did this to yourself
Glad they added video formatting to the title, I always wondered what format they used =)
What did it say?
@@JonReid01 they forgot to delete ".mp4" from the video title lmao
If Tomer plays next season, he just needs to run blood moon and he’ll win every single game the second it hits the board
The card that has single handedly won me the most games of commander is Lair of the Hydra. This kinda falls in line with a major argument of the video regarding the insane ability of utility lands. But simply being able to swing out with a massive creature late game right after a board wipe has been huge in my experience, and being a land, nobody really pays much attention to it till it’s too late.
5-D chess -- become opulent and enchant yourself with Curse of Opulence! What are your opponents going to do about it? Give you treasures?
I unironically do this in my Joleen deck. And yes, I know it doesn't make treasures, but giving options and more artifact mana is always good.
The reason people were complaining about Field of the Dead in Richard's Sgt. Benton deck is because with all that mana and all that card draw winning was a formality. Instead of winning in an interesting way, you played Field of the Dead. 😴💤
Yea, I generally like Richard's deck building and playstyle - but his decks this season have been very homogenous. They all kind of feel the same.
@@monhunfox1401probably cause he realized they were bringing in a less interactive player for the season with phil. I'd say richard is the one most likely to build specifically for their meta whereas the other guys decks would work in any meta
It really seems like Richard's list can be summed up as "Thank God our play groups meta is so slow".
I love the ".mp4" video names. : )
Richard and Seth have brainwashed the cast into forgetting every commander player is okay with targeted land removal. And the MOST acceptable land removal is swap removal they're extra susceptible to because they run no basics and terrible mana fixing.
Exactly! If I have a broken land remove it but give me a basic in return. It’ll probably enter untapped anyways.
People dislike mass land destruction because it prevents them from actually playing the game.
Anyone who complains about basic swap destruction is taking things too far.
@@UnreasonableOpinions also add onto it. Destroying a single land and not replacing it doesn’t really matter too much late game. Sure it sucks but does that 11th land really change things for you?
I'm with Tomer. I have no idea what you guys are talking about with Land Tax. It's one of the best draw engines of all time. If I'm running anything but white green, I'm running tax. It's that strong. It's always been quiet, and has been since inception. Just ridiculously strong. There's a reason it's not a budget card. Beyond that, fun episode.
Cards that quietly win games: basic lands.😌
Thanks, crew, for lifting the fog over my eyes from Open the Way. I had evaluated it for my Gates deck but dismissed it. You're right! My math was wrong, and this card is actually great.
I feel like the basics vs turbo non-basics argument is a question of practicality, budget, and aesthetic.
Practically speaking, there's diminishing returns when it comes to how optimal your mana base is. If you spent $500 and 20 life to effectively have only trilands and utility lands and perfectly fixed mana, you arent exclusively casting 3 pip charms and necropotences. Ive seen the cards the Crew play, and Crim aside they arent that demanding. Theres just no need for the effort and budget allocation. Not only this, but the only two utility lands that consistently see *use* are Thespians Stage and Vesuva, and iconic design mistake Field of the Dead - which isnt a utility lands so much as a win con. Spending 50 to 25% of that amount of money gets a perfectly functional mana base which allows for cards like Cultivate to be playable - and those cards are powerful no matter what 3/4ths of a Commander Podcast say.
Somebody plays a Seagate Restoration and nobody bats an eye. I play the One Ring and everybody loses their minds
Love episode 143.mp4 but when is 143.mp5 coming out?
I'd love to sit at the table where the majority of these are sleeper game winners. Basically all these would draw the attention of the table, ESPECIALLY Field of the Dead and Blind Obedience. Absolute nonsense land, and people really do not enjoy their stuff coming in tapped. The only ones that I kinda agree as sleepers are Skullwinder and Land Tax. Sorry Crim, but Sword of Body and Mind is still a no from me dawg.
I think Breena is a great quiet Commander. It sits out and gives everyone value, but then becomes a huge flying threat.
Even if you don't pump Breena, you can pump your other creatures.
People like drawing, and don't pay attention to all the counters you're adding.
@@brandyourfan9244 Exactly. I win fairly often with my Breena deck and people still refer to it as group hug or political. It's actually just great at building threats
This episode just reminds me everyone should start running non basic land punishment because of the modern day greedy land bases.
The problem is that it also punished a lot of non-greedy manabases.
I started using open the way after you suggested it several episodes ago, and the moment i cast it, my pod went "oh that's
Two games later, i see them. playing it. Completely agree.
Not only do I think the aggro Blind Obedience draws is over stated, but it also provides you with the resources to deal with it.
It hits that sweet spot where it's just effective enough to be awesome, but not so effective that it eats a removal spell. People never want to waste their removal on it.
the vast amount of greed these guys have in regards to mana bases is astounding. price of progress is like an instant KO for everyone except Tomar
Early consistencies and synergies can oftentimes be more impactful than late game bombs.
01:06:18 Quakebringer does not work with mutavault. "At the beginning of your upkeep" is when the giant triggers, and all "at the beginning of your upkeep" triggers go on the stack before any player gets priority. By the time you have priority to activate Mutavault, the window to get quakebringer to trigger has passed.
I put Open The Way in my Magus Lucea Kane deck when I pulled it from the booster pack and it's been one of the best cards in my deck ever since.
lol Seth is choosing things that are such loud moments in edh… 7 mana draw seagate restoration and field of the dead omg in which groups is it quietly impacting the board
I was thinking the same thing, those cards are in no way "quiet" XD
Someone's GOTTA run Ruination and Bloodmoon to make them pay for running 5 basics in Monocoloured.
How is meathook on this list? Its still banned in standard and still 30 dollars...
Card basically consolidates like 3 different roles into one well costed card
Yeah totally agree, wiping the board, being banned in a format, reminding players each turn about life gain/loss, usually not a hallmark of a quiet winning card. ^_^
Hearing the land counts of Richard, Seth, and Crim... I definitely want to run ruination/blood moon effects...
They are so greedy. *Laughs in back to basics*
In real life people play a lot of basics, but after this podcast I think I'll keep from the ashes sleeved just in case I'm ever at a command fest where people can play with one of you
So the takeaway from this is that Tomer should run a boros deck with land tax and blood moon 🤣
This episode definitely brought to the forefront that non basic land hate and land destruction should be more commonly run in decks. Even if it's just Ghost Quarter, Field of Ruin, and Wasteland. Take out the greed
Tomer is the only one that is actually right basics are so underplayed nowadays
Basics are underplayed? In 3+ color decks there's really no reason to run more than 9 basics, usually less. Non green color combos really gotta have a reason to play basics
The problem with the basic vs non basic argument is that a lot of people can’t afford to put all that money into land based every time they build a deck.
Commander doesn't need mass and destruction, it needs incedential land destruction. Mass land destruction just makes the game take forever and condemds two players for the crimes of the one ramping too much. That is not only mean, but not optimal, politics or no politics. It's a combo piece you build around. Incedential land destruction should be played a lot more because it only goes to the player it should. We just need cheaper effects.
I personally love the "destroy a land, they grab a basic to replace it" just wish it was attached to a permanent and not a 3 mana sorcery
@@jaredwright1655 I really like volcanic offering because of it's a 4 for 1 at instant speed that gives you plausible deniability but it's five mana. I also try to play incendiary command because of its extra utility but it has the same problems. Give me a similar effect for cheaper, it can even be less strong, it just needs to have utility and/or replace itself.
@@MakeVarahHappen just learned that volcanic offering exists. Thank you
I might suggest Cleansing Wildfire. Two mana sorcery, cantrips to replace itself, and if you have any indestructible lands you can even use it as ramp for yourself.
@@TheSilverFox442 cleansing wildfire is removal for problematic lands but is terrible for punishing ramp.
Open the way under used because it’s in Aftermath. That was a bomb set that nobody bought
My most hipster magic take is that "no max hand size" effects are unnecessary and Reliquary Tower is bad. Drawing 10 and sculpting 17 cards down to 7 isnt really that hard, nor is it that big of a downside. Keep one land, one or two pieces of interaction and GAS and you're in great shape. The 5 lands you discarded arent hurting you.
So true
I never wanted to see a Blood Moon so badly as I do now after hearing those takes on basic lands... Punish them, Tomer!
Hearing Seth and Richard say that no one plays land hate is like hearing children explain that Santa is gonna come. Blood moon is legal, Back to basics is legal, your play groups have been coddling you.
Most playgroups do to the point those cards are soft banned. Mld or blood moons just slow the game down to a pace people dont find enjoyable. People like greedy mana bases so they can cast their dumb timmy cards on or ahead of curve even if they have 3 or 4 colored pips in their cost so anything that says no gets a target. Thats why we need blood sun reprints. No fotd bullshit but people can cast dumb spells
I put at minimum 10 basics (5 colors, 2 of each), and that is the bare minimum. I play up to 30 basics in some mono-colored decks i have. I have 24 commander decks right now and build over the years a lot of decks and searched a lot for optimal ratios regarding draw, ramp and lands. Mostly non-basics did not work for me and it bit me in the ass most of the time. Either you have a huge wallet to buy cards like urborg, nikthos and so on or otherwise it is a waste to play so many non-basics, because it slows you down most of the time. I am convinced people should be playing more basics. Color-fixing and utility does sometimes give you an edge, but if it enters tapped, it is just too slow. I think Tomer is right. If you play online, then probably, because swapping cards is far easier. But on paper magic, it is a faulty logic if you have many decks.
I play Simic Landfall personally, and I actively encourage my friends and opponents to play land hate/wipes against me. In casual games I understand not having any Armageddon effects, but it's ridiculous to have your win con be protected under the rule 0 feels bad rule that discourages land hate. No other win con is as protected as lands and ramp
On Sea Gate Restoration, I think Burst Card Draw that you can capitalize on without discarding in general has the same thing where, it happens, it will win you the game, and people just do not give it the attention it deserves.
I want to point out all the Pull From Tomorrow effects, drawing you five or six cards as an instant so you have all your mana untapped to use them next turn. And one of my playgroup's meta warping card, budget Sea Gate Restoration, Recurring Insight. With people drawing cards at the rate they do in Commander, it is always a draw 6 with Rebound.
Normally, the play pattern goes, cast Recurring Insight, draw 6 cards, people get really worried for like, the next person's turn until they do something scary and more board-related, and now everyone forgot I sculpted my hand. Then in my upkeep I draw 6 cards more and win the game, because I had 7 perfect cards +6 new ones.
With Pull from Tomorrow/Stroke of Genius/Brain Geyser/etc, you get to draw a bunch of cards on your opponent's turn, right after everyone in the table was expecting "Oh, suspicious, but he is blue, he may be saving interaction". You may risk someone thinking you are saving up a Cyclonic Rift but a) just complain very loudly about not running it because it is a super staple in blue and b) they may even try to play closer to the chest in that case.
Regardless, I feel burst card draw is underappreciated in Commander as the same kind of point of no return moment for the game. If I untap with 15 cards in hand, the game is most likely over this turn or in a couple of turns of everyone else not playing.
All in all what I am saying is, play more counterspells or play more aggro options to kill the player that draws cards.
the sea gate restoration discussion had me bursting out in laughter sooo hard ily mtggoldfish for live
I feel like Sea Gate Restoration is the exact wrong answer here. If you're at 7 mana and have enough cards in hand that it's worth casting, you're already doing pretty well. Drawing 4 or 5 isn't at all quiet, and it's not really letting you win the game any differently than any other mass card draw effect.
It's a MDFC, it's a good card, but it's louder than it is powerful.
23:03 one day I played in a pod with my Henzie deck the other day where one opponent played blind obedience and the other played dauthi voidwalker. It was one of the most miserable three hours I ever had, AND STILL WON, because those two players kept targeting each other
we need to reintroduced land destruction into the meta
this "we cant destroy land" makes the games nowadays worse as green runs away with the game xD
I love how Open The Way is finally getting the love it deserves. I've been using it since Aftermath dropped, and it's been an incredible boon every time I've seen it.
14:04 It’s so interesting. I thought the common understanding was that burst card draw was perceived as scarier as opposed to engines.
In my colorless deck, Thoptor squadron is my quiet wincon
It's so funny when they ask "I wonder why people don't play X card over Y card" when one card is 20x times more expensive.
When you guys record podcasts please remember we're not all Wizards sponsored infinte money guys
Only like 3 of them were over like $2ish
Printer ink really isn't THAT expensive. I've got a stack of copies of The One Ring sitting on my desk right now.
Y'all are paying for MtG cards??
I'm with Tomer in regard to basic lands, I have no idea how people play without basics
I have two quiet cards that have impressed me every time I have had them on the field.
Garruk's Uprising and Temur Ascendancy, you draw as you throw down your biggest threats and those Threats will Either have Haste to hit out of nowhere or Trample to smash through Blockers.
Also Running Less Basics is sensible because we have more powerful Mana Dorks and Rocks along side Nature's Lore and Farseek, Yes those will get caught in Sweeper effects but if I tapped my Birds of Paradise for 2 mana that means it was a profitable mana spent.
Pretty sure Field of the Dead does NOT quietly win you games. It's pretty obvious.
I have become a huge fan of open the way. Mainly because so many times it has drawn out an opposition agent early. Which usually gets eaten by someone in the group because at least two others cannot live with out their tutors/fetches.
Still on Tomer's side for basics. I run 10 in my 5 color, 9 in my 4 color, 10-15 in all my 3 color, 20+ in my 2 color, and around 25 in my mono colored. Also, Open the Way is often bad. The game is ready to end by the time you can get max value
What kind of playgroup are you in where the game is ready to end at 6 mana?
@@leonjakobsen272 I'm just speaking from an optimization standpoint it will rarely be correct to play the card. I can give a full breakdown of how the Clash playgroup has evolved to make the card viable/good but this is a comment section and this will already be a novel for a comment. It's not that the card can't be run, you just need to ask yourself what else is happening in my playgroup before you put a high mana value ramp card in your deck.
The bulk of my play is random groups from various mtg discords. An above average draw can win on turn 5 or 6 with a lot of decks. After turn 7 i kind of expect anything can happen. To answer how people win or present a must answer board state for 6 mana:
For 5 mana people cast Hatred, Overwhelming Stampede, and Coat of Arms. For 6 mana ramp you can double all your mana & future mana with Mana Reflections. At 6, the Tergrid player is untapping and doing Tergrid things. At 4 the token player can at instant speed cast Second Harvest and double their board or casting Akroma's Will. For 3 mana someone can cast Beastmaster Ascension. There are a lot of examples. You just need to be mindful is all.
On my playgroup at turn 6 the game is not close to ending, but definitely not the moment to be ramping, it is so tempo negative to do that at the point, while I think 4 cmc ramp is too overhated, 6 cost for one is definitely not, and how are you going to use that much mana without a horrible curve? The ramp also happens to inconsistently give you random lads, which sure, can be field of the dead, but also can make you continue to be mana screwed, which nearly every other ramp solves, and demands you to have a way more expensive manabase to actually be better than normal ramp due to that downside, also has a lesser than one hundred chance of getting mystic sanctuary when you don't need and the opposite as well
Cards that quietly win games: using path to exile on your own creature as a 1 mana ramp spell 😬
Sometimes i swords my creatures to gain life 😂
Instead of running cards that give no maximum hand size try running Mystic Redaction. With this when you have to discard to hand size each opponent will mill 2 cards for each card you discard. It effectively turns your card draw into mill/removal.
How is that removal? Also, at least in my experience, milling opponents usually helps them more than it hurts them.
Milling an opponent is objectively bad.
Blind Obedience is not an Orzhov card. You can play it in any white deck. The Extort mana symbol is in the reminder text, not actually a part of the color identity. Edit: Okay, Richard corrected Crim at the end.
imagine being so horny to correct the video that you can't wait 5 minutes to hear the full discussion of the card.
Tomer's face during the Land Tax discussion is exactly the same as mine. Just wow.
I like sea gate and between tomer and seth's opinion. It is good, adn you can get away with it against beginners. But against decent players, it is a risky card to tapped out and cast. You also need to have a decent hand size to cast it after deploying your ramps or etc.. so you need other card draws to make it good
I always have to remind myself that their perspective assumes a meta of unlimited budget (and trending spikey). I play so many basics, and that's fine for my lower powered, janky/theme focused meta. Field of the Dead would be like 20% of any of our decks average cost. Still appreciate the different takes though!
To be hornest they don't build spikey at all and thats because of content. To be really spikey would include way more efficient infinite combos but it wouldn't Work for their content.
I think Curse of Opulence is a negative for the format. There are plenty of cards that wreck a single player like overwhelming splendor. The difference is at 1 mana, Curse of Opulence comes down too early in the game to fairly label someone as archenemy.
Tomer used to hate this card, I remember on a previous podcast he wanted it banned too.
It's pretty funny that this card is legal considering the feel bads it creates, and it usually targets the player in the worst position at the table.
I love curse of opulence. The players dig their own Graves. Its not a good card if players aren't tempted but it's bonkers if they are.
@@superstupid667 Even if none of your opponents are "tempted" It's still an extremely strong card. Even if you are the only player triggering it, it's like a Utopia Sprawl with the upside of being able to save the mana for a future turn if you don't need it.
@@TheAlmightyGoiter (Tomer here) I think you might be confusing me with Richard? It's been my favorite Red card since it was first previewed. Richard doesn't like it because it makes the cursed person a punching bag, and I agree to an extent that it's a feelsbad, but I still love the card.
I always feel like they are out of touch with the common player. Not everybody can put these busted land packages in every deck. I think they should put restrictions on land packages next season.
You guy’s convinced me to buy Body and Mind and mesmeric orb for Mothman 🤓🙏🏽
Tomer officially has permission to run back to basics and bloodmoon in every deck now
I play a Capt. N'ghathrod mill deck, and Altar of the Brood is a card that does work, specially on turn one.
I'd really like a podcast episode that analyzes the downsides and upsides of controversial or unassuming effects. How many times has Skullwinder backfired? Was the incidental life gain actually relevant to someone's survival or did they die anyway? Did the fog actually save the game? How much life did someone redirect with a Ghostly Prison?
1:01:38 - This is how I feel as well. I never want to not be able to cast a card because I don't have the right mana available. I will gladly take 10-15 damage a game to make sure that never happens. Tarnished Citadel for life.
Yo, I was playing at my local LGS and Blind Obedience literally won the game! This card was so impactful on the game, prevented me from Wishclawing to win the game and died to the crackback. Opponent quietly pulled ahead and prevented the rest of the table from executing their game plans.
the enter tapped is so powerful and the table was busy worrying about other threats to target the Blind Obedience player
I have ONE deck that runs basics over most utility lands. Mono Blue go crazy for them islands.
I thought until just now that the thing in the main frame of the art for The Meathook Massacre was a flying elephant, not a hand …….
Tomer. Please just start running all the cards that destroy non basics and lets its controller get basics.
Field of ruin, demolition field and
Best of all
Wave of Vitriol. (Was printed in a commander precon so its all good)
Starting the podcast out with Richard painting magical Christmas land scenarios to prop up mediocre cards (as he always does) and then referring to bounce lands as card draw was certainly a decision lol
Authority of the Consuls is what Richard was asking for: 1 mana life gain and tap on an enchantment.
Can an "offensive" Settle the Wreckage on your own board outpace Open the Way? In a token deck, you'd have 3 turns to get as many tokens out as possible. I feel like you could comfortably get more than 3 tokens. Basics only instead of any lands, but to be able to do something similar in white seems pretty strong.
Land tax is also very useful for being able to shuffle away the top of the deck.
Basic lands are so good they are literally the most non restrictive under the radar lands you can use! And most games you aren’t using every single utility land effect on your battlefield
In addition to John Benton & Xyris there's my favorite commander Varchild!
Never understood why Traverse the Outlands was "greatest power" instead of "greatest toughness". It literally has a Treefolk as the art. Treefolk are known for big butts...