i played it for a while but for me old school runescape is the game that i love been playing for over 10 years still not bored still got tons of things to do
Josh: People love complaining and nitpicking and destroy the fun with it Also Josh: Has a dedicated series to complain and nitpick crap games Thank you for that :D
Josh's worst mmo (Questionmark) video's could actually do the opposite and make the crappy games more interresting, as seen on "tv" almost always makes people want to try it out for themselves.
Whenever I buy a game I know nothing about on steam, I always look at the negative reviews first. In my opinion, it's important to at least be aware of the issues I can run into before jumping in.
I got the advice some years ago that if you want to know the truth about a product you should look for middling reviews because they tend to be most honest, and so far it's held pretty true. It's a shame steam only has a "Yea or Nay" reviews system.
Love this!! Even when majority is like "You can't be a terrible person and think only the negatives!" You kinda have to when it comes to reviews and really anything you want to invest money or time into... think of scams for instance, scams, you need to first check if that scam really is one by negatively thinking it's a scam
@@MaraJinksblade On that last part, I really wish it was just something like TH-cam's old school 5 stars rating system on Steam. Yes or no, black or white decision making doesn't work with a lot of things imo. Too many nuances to over generalize experiences to, "objectively good, objectively bad".
That's fair, but I think that's kind of an entirely different level of investigation. The above video is simply saying "nothing is perfect, so don't base your perceptions on perfection/idealism." Which after breaking through that barrier, leads to more meaningful ways to approach negative reviews. As mentioned in the video above, a lot of negativity in gaming can stem from the perfectionism thing.
@@MaraJinksblade Middle reviews are always the best. People there are able to see where a product could be better while still acknowledging the faults. People who give things 1 star are ether over complaining (The packaging was damaged in shipping and blame the product) or ran into an uncommon critical error (I couldn't install DOOM eternal on my 386)
Just give me 5K and i will make the mmo you are dreaming to play. (You literally have to dream to play it, it will be completely random and everything is procedurally generated)
This is so strange for me. Whenever I talk about video games, I almost never focus on the bad, unless the game is incredibly janky or buggy. I always focus on the positive stuff, the stuff that keeps me coming back. I usually have to be coaxed into talking about bad stuff with people. I really don't care if people want to "waste" their time on bad games (in my opinion). As long as they're happy, or finding fulfillment that isn't destructive, I'm okay with that. 😊
@@avalonazure5488 How about a Mugmug Mug? It's a mug made of 3 mugs moulded together. You can hold 3 drinks at once and it has a rotatable lid so when you drink, the other 2 won't spil, thanks to the seal around the lid !
4:30 I have recently been able to (hopefully definitely) overcome the sunk cost fallacy and I want to share my story. I have played WoW on and off since Vanilla. I used to be a raider, but I only enjoyed raiding with friends, and the online group felt apart long ago. Eventually I ended up playing only for collecting stuff, and at first it was really exciting, I was making progress and each new item/achievement felt rewarding. The more I got, the less exciting it was. When I started the biggest grinds I got lost in the game, living around the daily/weekly stuff I set for myself. This actually had an impact in my real life and I regret it deeply. At some point the fun was lost and I felt like I had to keep going because I almost had everything. Whenever I got something I felt relieved... not rewarded. I thought "At some point I will be done with it I guess" but they keep on adding more and more collectibles with new patches. Instead of being excited for new patches, I wanted them to arrive later, and, at the end, not arrive at all. (9.1 for example) I knew I've been wanting to quit collecting for at least a year or two, but the sunk cost fallacy is a very strong thing and I couldn't bring myself to do it. I realized Retail was more a job or a cage than a game for me(not hating the game, just what I had made it). I only played it because I had soooo much collected and so much time invested, and everything would be lost if I did quit. How could I? I found that playing TBC Classic with no aspirations, no grinds, only playing what I want and when I want, has made me "click" and made the hard decision (for me it was lol) of quitting retail altogether. I haven't logged into Retail for the longest time since I started hardcore collecting about 6 years ago. And I feel... free. Sorry for the rant, just wanted to share a sunk cost fallacy struggle so that people get a picture of what it is.
Remember you will never have everything in a game because they will always add something new and it will just drive you insane so don't worry about it, I hope you find the fun in a game again and enjoy.
That what you said, "I feel relieved but not rewarded" is really deep to me. Because in my life multiple things turned out to be like this, and then I loose completely my pleasure to do so. But now that I recognize that because of you, I can hope for an better understanding and consequently a better life. Thanks
One point I would add is that you could really make a case for the "silent majority" argument in MMOs. The usually casual players who just play the game and enjoy it at their own pace are usually not the people invested in it so much that they will go online to talk about it. You will almost never hear the opinions of the casual playerbase, because they rarely voice them. On top of that, the people who are really invested into the game but enjoy it, don't go online to talk about positives either. There are exceptions of MMO evangelists of course, but they are a rare case. Overall the part of the playerbase you encounter online is almost exclusively the part that is most negative about it, but you never really know how big or small that part is in the overall playerbase.
Playing MMOs is like being Larry King's love life; Lots of marriages & divorces, & maybe telling a few guys at the bar how much you hated your last ex.
@@SeppelSquirrel Deplomacy? Disgusting. But really, better yet, don't have a main story and focus on building a world that stories appear from, some players can just live as a farmer some guard towns, some adventure and some went up the ranks to rule a town. Big quests are the wars different factions end up waging against each other. A pack of wolves might inhabit an abandoned cave and that becomes a problem, then a guild puts out a request for someone to deal with it, and if the person trying it completes it then those wolves are gone, but something will eventually take it's place.
@@SeppelSquirrel Intresting, would be interesting to see more of those options in MMOs, though it seems like it's all funneled to be combat because it's often fun for most players and adding more options doing a quest takes effort.
@@wrytte I played King of Avalon for a while (I know, technically different, but it’s another of the stupid ads/ragged on games club). It was pretty fun. Plus, Raid pays absolute bank. lol
True, Raid actually not the worse They're just a copy of a copy of game that were famous and working and put their own little twist here and there But I do hate them solely from their annoying ad campaign Like c'mon 3 mins ads? srly If only TH-cam not being a btch, I'll probably hate every youtuber who accept their ads offer
@@Lfancoes I never hate on a creator for accepting a sponsor, even if I can’t stand that sponsor (though I may point out things about the sponsor in a comment if I believe they’re potentially harmful). TH-camrs generally put a lot of effort into creating content and I’m not going to get upset at someone for doing what pays the bills so they can keep creating that content. Especially if it means they can put more time into making that content good.
This video highlights a big part of what kept me around watching this channel even though my MMO days are long passed (for now at least). With every MMO you look at, even in the "Worst MMO Ever" series, when you find something you like you point it out and make a point to talk about it and why you like it, even in the midst of whatever else might be negative about the game. Its something I try to do as well and I can say there's rarely if ever a game where I can't find anything positive about it, maybe not enough to redeem the game as a whole, but there's almost always at least something positive I can take away from the experience.
I think this mentality is primarily a result of MMOs trying to appeal to ever-broader audiences. Generally speaking it seems they're trying to be everything to everyone to attract the most people (and money), rather than focusing on being truly great at any particular thing, which ends up causing the experience to feel shallow.
@@yannickgullentops6857 except no Because the BEST mmos have always been tight and focused only new age mmos (and current wow xpacs) are like that because instead of trying to be good theyre trying to milk money
@@V2ULTRAKill Runescape for example has always been an extremely broad game for example. Can you give me an example of what you consider a more specialized mmo?
@@yannickgullentops6857 i wouldn't say that RuneScape is a broad mmo... I think what he means is the mmos nowadays are trying to do everything great: the combat, dungeons, guilds, quests, gear, exploration, pvp etc. But (at least IMO) RuneScape doesn't really try to have a good Combat system for example. It's rather a click and wait and so it only appeals for people that are interestes in that type of combat, while MMOs that are being released nowadays try to go the fast paced action combat route becasue that's most likely what the majority of the players will enjoy.
"Try them all and find the one that sucks in a way that works for you" What do I do when that certain special MMO has been shut down while I was busy flirting with other MMOs?
"should you watch josh strife hayes?" "No hes the copium channel." "what about kiraTV?" "Just another neckbeard rants channel" "Asmongold?" "bald" yeah youre right this works for everything im joking by the way
Love the video! Any chance in future videos you could pop the name of the game being shown in the corner or something? I often see interesting games but have no idea what they are! 😊
The casualness is exactly what I love about GW2. My gear I got years ago is never out of date. I can jump on at any time and play raid level encounters with 40 to 80 other players without having to coordinate anything in advance.
But what is the point of that game ? I started GW2 couple of days ago, and everything is so easy that you can literally just use the " auto cast this skill " and win everything, i just couldnt stomach it more than a day. Absolutely nothing gave any challenge what so ever. The exp keeps piling in so rapidly that while i was doing the first quests and "golden heart events" the game told me that im now over leveled for that zone and have been reduced down to match it. I didnt even know that E skill is a heal, i never needed to use it, just found it out by accidentally mouse overing it. The game shovels all sorts of boosters and potions and lotions at you in such a fast pace that the few bags what i've got, have like 2 empty spots for loot, rest is full of booster crap. I mean each for their own and whatever floats your boat, but damn man, it feels like -that- level of casual player would be happy to have a button that yells " YOU WIN " on their desk, and that might be more challenging that GW2
Late reply, but I wanted to add a bit of context to what you experienced. You were likely playing through the standard beginner’s experience in Core Tyria. You’re dropped into a beginner zone (level 1-15) and slowly introduced to game mechanics as you level. Relatively quickly you’ll level up a few times and unlock additional skills, weapon swapping depending on your class, and so on. Because it’s a “casual” game it really eases you into it. But if you, as a level 10 crushing most of Queensdale, decide to jump onto a level 20 zone and fight level 20 enemies then you’ll die pretty quick, and there’s no real incentive to do so since higher-level quests and enemies don’t necessarily translate to higher rewards. If you stick with zones around your level you’ll have a pretty smooth leveling experience. If you want a complex early gameplay experience you can try to solo champion enemies, most of which are intended to be group fights. Once you unlock dungeons at level 30, fights where positioning and mechanics matter start to show up in those dungeons. This is also true for fractals and raids, both of which start at level 80. Additionally, to address complaints about Core Tyria being too easy, the zones in Maguuma and Crystal Desert are much more challenging from a combat standpoint. Regarding “endgame”, the only true endgame content is fractals and World vs World. Fractals because you need what’s essentially the highest-tier gear for those, and WvW because it’s a series of server vs server vs server PvP maps where you’ll really want the extra stats given by the highest-tier gear. Raids require max level but only the second highest-tier gear, and open world maps are split between leveling maps and max-level maps but with no real gear requirements. So if you’re a player that wants a challenging gameplay experience out of the box, you won’t really get that. The game eases you into the world and wants you to be interested in both the environment and the story, and that story progresses through maps and dungeons far past max level. Final note, if you’re just interested in standard PvP, you can jump right into that immediately. All gear and stats are standardized, though you can select your builds, so you need to win through gameplay rather than flexing gear or cash shop stuff.
I was distracted from the start of video by the out of place strand of hair on the right side of your head (your left). Thanks for the quality content as usual ^^
Great video as always, but I was hoping for some YGO cards in this mug. :/ The only thing I'd add to the topic is when people love smth they get invested, when the game is changing, they hate on it, but still play it. Its a love hate relationship. I think every mmo player has that.
I don't always agree with you, but I always understand what you mean and appreciate your content. You're well versed in critical thinking and make excellent points in every video, which is why I gleefully continue to watch. Thank you for exploring the MMO genre of gaming in your own unique way, it's always worth one of those saucy thumb's up like button click thingies.
You contribute to this problem so much. Most people get their first impression in the first few seconds, or the first line of text. Those people who ask if they should play an MMO are all either looking for confirmation bias (in which people's opinions don't matter because they're either jerking their confirmation bias off or they're looking for a flame war) or if they are, their attention spans are so short that the first line will tell them if they should play something or not. So all your "Worst MMO Ever?" series videos, when people search for an MMO's name and see your video at the top as a review with your bedazzlingly handsome face, are just telling them this MMO is bad and they shouldn't play it. They won't watch a whole 30 minute video, they don't have time for that! You are part of the problem! And that's why I haven't tried that MMO called Tinder. It's your fault, Josh.
@@thewoollywizard3762 I've never looked at them as dumb, because the game has worse looking races. not sure what is up with those proportionally weird not-elves.
Most of the time when I like an MMO, I just tend to wish it was an offline single player game, possibly with online co-op instead. The always online component of MMOs is too intertwined with DRM and monetization, and often leads to sacrificesin design to accomodate those.
The evolutionary benefit of this is, negative stuff gets you killed. “I’m sure going in that cave is an awesome idea, or eating that will be great!” And it did save people to tell them how bad things can be, of course in the modern age it’s pretty annoying!
Phantasy Star Online 2 New Genesis had a rough start to the point I was considering that it sucked over the lag and player shop issues it had during it's first week. Now I think it's rather good, but I'm not as addicted to it as I was when the original Phantasy Star Online 2 global servers.
I remember playing PSO2 when it released in Asia... I thought of it as Monster Hunter, but SPACE! And it was a great MMO. I miss it so much, but the thing's 100 gigabytes and i can't play it now
Not much to do in new gen. But im still playing it daily. Leveling up to 20 is taking me alot more longer than i thought. But im ok with it. Combat is alot of fun and i feel like its perfect for those that want to get an early shot at being strong enough for when the new content does arrive.
All good points. It's worth mentioning in your ebay example, I think, that oftentimes negative reviews are more insightful and detailed than the positive ones. Same with employer reviews. Tons of positive reviews will tell you "this employer is great," or "best product I've ever bought," and leave it at that. A negative review will often (not always) tell you "this employer/product sucks AND here's why." You're right though, if a product has 99% positive feedback in a decent sample size of reviews, I still wanna read the negative ones. Even if I know I'll still buy the product based on the 99%, there's still that morbid curiosity.
When I was younger I spent years on a MMO called Dofus, half-way I started to really hate it, it wasn't good and the community was terrible, but I kept playing, I left that game later because of drama, but I felt relieved because I realized I was finally free of the sunk cost fallacy. I played that game a bit recently for nostalgia, oh boy it's even worse now than ever.
Omg I'm not the only one who's played it. They recently released a retro version before the graphic changes. One of my favorite MMOs. I still have it on my PC even though I don't play it
It used to be incredibly popular. I played the next game, Wakfu. Let's say it was simply buggy (at the level of "can't act in combat" or "item disappearing"), the possibility to attack anyone, the free pvp made a lot of drama. The game also had grind problems and crafting was garbage yet necessary to progress. Dofus remains the same, grind problem and crafting garbage but necessary to progress. I played it back in the end of 2020, it didn't improved, some classes are left to rot and most of their efforts went into the cash shop. I stopped playing it because the quests and ways to progress were not my thing.
@@Shinnouryu I quit because the top players ran the markets and dungeons on Solar. So if you joined the server later like I did, it was hard to get equipment and groups. Guilds with high percs taking all the good farming spots and paddocks. I jumped on the 1.29 reboot when it first launched and that was the best Dofus I ever played. Everyone farming prespic sets and gob dungeon. Leveling with a new guild. That was amazing.
I asked “why should I play your game” in 4 subreddits, one told me to play something else, another banned me, one told me to fuck off, another told me why it’s awesome… and to fuck off.
I know you used it as an example but i like the combat in ESO, though mostly cus my scrawny healer ass can look at the fireworks from a safe distance...
This brings up a really interesting thought about how personal one's gaming experiences can be, because I've seen on so many occasions, people saying a certain game is absolutely terrible, but then you get a small percentage replying, "yeah, it's not the best, but I have a lot of fondness for it, because it got me through a tough time" or "yeah, but I love all these certain features in it and just have so much fun playing it". I think it just goes to show that, yeah, getting others' opinions is all well and good, but at the end of the day, it's ultimately up to the individual to try a game and decide whether it is worth their time or not.
i love how it took science to 'know' that the only thing better than loving the same things as someone is hating the same things, as if it hasnt been a thing in pop culture for decades
I feel like with MMOS, the best way to approach recommendations (and the same goes for games in general), is to start with what the person is interested in as it will start to narrow things out from the get-go, but at the same time I feel like I personally value the opinion on veteran's the most. Because even if they're opinions might be jaded, it helps paint a picture of the state of the game for me, I for one can usually not recommended the ones I grew up with because of the poor game state unless the person is really interested in what they have to offer. And as for the negative part, I can't blame people for jumping straight to them since MMOs are black holes of time, and while they can often use polish to become actual arguments, but I get it when it comes to long games ... And as for my own negative take, yes the Guild Wars 2 story is indeed a garbage fire, but it's combat well never not be one of the best things about it and is still worth it even with it's hilariously bad story, which IMO, just about every MMO has a bad story
"That's a circular junction for you Americans" I have literally never heard it called that, either it's called roundabout, or as the GPS calls it, traffic circle
Always found fascinating that behaviour. Right now I'm playing Elder Scrolls Online and Guild Wars 2. Because I love those games. While I', sure they have, I can't say anything bad, can't find a flaw. For me those two games are flawless, perfect. Love the design, love the combat, the progresssion, the lore, the way the game is made and the way I play it. I also play Star Trek Online every now and then because I'm a trekker and while the game is actually quite awfull it's story and lore are by far the best iterations nowadays Star Trek has, and I love the way you can personalize everything for your ship, not just aesthetics. The crew, officers, crew's tasks... It's the wet dream of any trekker that likes roleplay. Black Desert, I love the crafting, the economy, the saliing, the sea, fishing, and the combat. It's a game that gives me mixed feelings (I really hate open PvP) but there are things I love and that make me return every now and then. In the near future, I'm waiting for Lost Ark and Sword of Legends Online because I loved what I saw. I play what I like. What I enjoy. There are plenty of games I hate with passion. League of Legends, Fortnite, For Honor... I don't play those games. I hate them. Hate the game, the aesthetics, the gameplay, the lore, everything. I find them revolting. So I don't play them. World of Warcraft was a game I loved. Now I don't love it. It makes me feel bored. So I don't play it. Can't understand why people play games they hate. I play stuff that makes me feel good, allows me to have a good time. Otherwise, what's the point? I've have a job, I'm alredy doing stuff I don't like at all. I don't need that in my spare time.
Addiction is a real trick of the mind. People will put up with terrible experiences in the hope something good will happen to them, even if they have no control in that at all and they are just pulling an RNG crank over and over.
@L M The worst part about people who hate WoW is how often they'll claim that "the game is dying", completely oblivious to the fact it still breaks sales records and still has an absolutely massive playerbase compared to most MMOs
Fun... i remember having fun in MMO games... Now i'm just filling that void in my soul... Chasing the dragon... Trying to get my next fix... *DING* Oh hey! Level 120 Cooking!
Thank you, Josh. I'm having a lot of fun with my little wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle guild wars 2. I love not having to race for gear and going at my pace. It's like a single player game that's populated and I can choose to make it an MMO or keep playing my solo adventure whenever I want. I love my freedom of choice, it's true authority. This comes from an 2400+ hours FFXIV player. I love my FF obviously, it's just that this change of pace in combat and world perspective is very much welcome.
Regarding the ebay rating analogy; I try to read the things people put in their ratings. if its a whole bunch of people saying they never got what they ordered or they got the wrong thing, yeah I'll skip that seller. But if its a couple people complaining their item arrived a few days late, I disregard those buyers. First world problems. Especially since I live in America where our postal service is often the reason packages are late...
I was playing WoW on a private server for a while (Dalaran, thanks for asking), and while I was having a great time soaking in nostalgia and doing all the old quests from when I first played, Guild and general chats were ALWAYS full of people complaining about how terrible retail WoW was. Which I totally couldn't identify with because I loved how the world and quests were freshened up with Cataclysm and there was so much new stuff to see and do. But no, that was the point where the sky fell and everything turned to garbage and on and on and on in the same vein. Now ironically, that version of WoW actually did suck in some extra ways, since the economy was totally out of whack and Northrend was stuffed full of bots and some quests just plain didn't work right, especially escort missions. But for a free nostalgia trip? Good enough for me.
Since you asked, I’m playing RuneScapes new mobile release after your incredibly touching videos about it. I haven’t found the suck yet. I also actively play GW2.
Josh....we obviously have round abouts, they are the most efficient way of traffic in low traffic areas such as residential areas. Still love your videos!! Also what about talking about when is it during the MMO experience do players feel that relaxed "ahhhh" moment when that it just clicks!
Thanks a lot Josh I really needed to hear this, I'm glad that it's OK to have this type of mentality as someone who has been playing MMO's ever since I was in Elementary School with OSRS then moved to kMMOs. My neighborhood friends at some point didn't want to play with me anymore, so MMO's allowed me to make all kinds amazing friends and people.
@@Nostromo2144 boo hoo. You can fully ignore crafting in the game. im cp 270 with all crafting at like level 4. Theres other perks to eso+ anyways, like ya know having access to all past content without needing to outright buy it. Who cares if they gate the crafting bag.
You know, this kind of applies to every game. They all have mistakes that people brood over while the majority of the game is great. We all just need to start acknowledging that and then we will be able to find games that we enjoy a whole lot easier.
True democracy simply wouldn't work and often gets very close votes, see UK Brexit vote of 52% yes to 48% no. Not to mention all the media and people screaming at you saying you voted wrong, despite there being no right or wrong vote. The democracy in most countries says people living in some places, their votes are worth more than those living in other places, which gets votes to pass when they would be too close otherwise.
12:39 considering i play Tarutaru in 14's older cousin, id like to know why people have such issues with even seeing such races about. theres usually enough other options.
Would love to see you do a video on the psychological aspect of video games. More specifically how to properly convey different feelings in a natural way as a game progresses.
Hey Josh, great video and topic that applies not only to MMO's but other games genres and even movies or books, I had the same thought about a game that I play called Warframe to which many people refer to as grind simulator but I never minded the grind, It's the part of the experience as a whole and I don't hate that game just because it can get grindy.
Playing a mmo is sometimes like being in an abusive relationship. Especially if it has a grotesque cash shop. That said, FFXIV Endwalkers release is so far away and I have all classes (combat/gathering/crafting) at cap and ran outta things I want to do :( Well, still trying to get a large housing plot but thats one of the most frustrating part of FFXIV. The only other complaint I can really say is that some of the side quests, especially in the base game and end game of each xpack is just running around talking to npcs even though it could have been just a single in game rendered cut scene.
EQ2 is the mmo I’ve played the longest. Back before WOW was released and just past when Star Wars online released. I personally feel the Star Wars mmo killed EQ2, pulled too many players away and SOE made some shitty moves after that…oh well I’ll always have those good memories of running a Templar solo through bosses
@Very Sad I feel like "don't have to worry about money" is a positive, not a negative. You don't have to worry ever about affording potions or crafting materials or paying to fly somewhere, that's just sort of there to be a limiter very early on. It's nice to not have to worry about that when you already have to worry about tons of other things.
Nah they still suck, but it makes pointing it out redundant. If only a few sucked, you could say "oh those suck". With them all sucking you gotta get into the specifics (as he said in the video, so you can figure out what suck doesn't suck so much for you.)
I've been playing Genshin Impact since it premiered and I can't get enough of it. There are things that suck about it, but I honestly don't care, the good outweighs the bad in a huge way.
LMAO mate - your roundabout analogy so reminded me of the Brexit days in the UK... Churchill had it right - democracy is terrible, just preferable to the alternatives
Heh that's pretty true to be fair. Every time I come across anyone espousing the values of communism (or any other form of governance) you can bet they have never had any experience of living under such a regime. They are always quick to point out the problems with democracy but usually to be found wanting when it comes to offering up solutions.
this is sadly valid for games in general and not just MMOs (also many single player games are played much shorter). Especially the part were people will jump on hate wagon without touching that specific game (like actually playing it). I have also seen one other trend in games. If something is a bit more difficult or challenging (maybe you need few tries to get it done correctly), one can jump very fast complaining that it is because game does not allow them to do this or that, even if it is a valid game mechanics.
@@milanjudak7574 The one thing I know of that will definitely crash your game, other than making a mistake while modding, is exceeding your RAM limit. There is a workaround- I just can't remember what it was off the top of my head. If you poke around I'm sure you'll figure it out. Stick with it. Kenshi is a gift from god
This definitely helps me further understand the MMO community, or just gaming in general. It's definitely been a thing I've kinda understood, but someone actually taking the time to interpret and talk about it inna video definitely helps. 😆
WoW sucks because the lead designer says one thing and does another. Repeating mistakes while taking out good things while keeping that garbage follower's table in the game. However, I cannot play a druid in any other game where I can drop moons and stars on my enemy heads while in the form of an owlbear. Also, I happen to like the art style of WoW. I don't really care about realistic looking graphics all that much. I just like having things to do endgame I suppose. And while I have been trying to delve into FF14, it's not the same. I've tried other MMO's in the past, with one of the first ones I played was Runescape. However, I was forever turned off from the game when I played as a female character and every time I logged on, there was at least one idiot asking me to be their girlfriend.
I recently discovered this channel, and I’m really enjoying the vids. Even though my MMO days are past me, I still find them interesting. You should do a video on City of Heroes. Yes, it got shut down years ago, but there was a leak of the source code in 2019 and the game is now active again using private servers. It goes by the name City of Heroes: Homecoming.
Very on point, as usual. Recently started playing Star Trek Online. A lot of players complain that it's too combat-oriented and doesn't feel like real Trek. A lot of players complain about the ground combat (which does actually kind of suck). But you know what? I'm having a blast, flaws and all.
I haven't played rs since 2007 or so . . . Wonder if my account is even still there if I tried to log in. Granted I would have to figure out my password, email is easy since I only had 1 back then and it's unused now. Edit: Now I'm having flashbacks of dealing with dial up and getting kicked off of this game in the wilderness because someone tried to call . . .
@@Deram1Axres Fortunately I had a very janky account name that was easy to remember 😂 I actually stopped around 2006, came back for a few weeks in 2013, and now active again
Well, looks like I can log in. Granted its on the new RS3 and probably no way to get the character data to classic but still nice to have an account with a bunch of skills in the 40+ range and a couple 59-60, 58attack, 57str and def and 56hp . . . don't know how quick it is to level these things now but that felt like it took forever. Granted I spent most of my time back then fishing and cooking swordies to sell . . .
You are such an awesome TH-camr man xD Love the style! I play on-off The Elder Scrolls Online ... xD It really doesnt suck at all xD but after playing it for 5 years, its magic kind of wears off x(
This video has really opened my eyes to the biggest problem with the MMO gamers. I love Guild Wars 2. I'm thinking about trying out Elder Scrolls Online
Should you play swtor Do you like tab targeting? Do you like star wars? Do you want to spend all your time in an mmo doing solo content because fuck logic? Then maybe, if youre a whale swtor is for you
i love spiral knights, and started playing it again, no one plays it? yeah, the servers kinda suck? sure i'm having fun, and i don't need more, i already have life to be mad about lol
My main mmorpg is old and bad. I am still there years now for the friends I've made and all the work Ive put into my accts. I never down play the game or other players while ingame. I leave that up to the murder hobos and trolls. They never fail. Awesome video thumbs up.
I suppose it's like asking what shoes are the most comfortable for a 20 mile run, after that amount of running even the most minor itch will be torture to those who still use them.
![Have guides ruined MMO games? - [MMOPINION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Zy7xXkRQV7Y/mqdefault.jpg)
![Have guides ruined MMO games? - [MMOPINION]](/img/tr.png)
Excuse you, my favorite MMO is Dreamworld and it's PERFECT
The last game you'll ever play!
Objectively good games aren't rea-
i played it for a while but for me old school runescape is the game that i love been playing for over 10 years still not bored still got tons of things to do
They are not talking about the Runescape srivate server called "Dream Scape".
It’s so perfect that you get your own private world all to yourself!
Josh:
People love complaining and nitpicking and destroy the fun with it
Also Josh:
Has a dedicated series to complain and nitpick crap games
Thank you for that :D
Yeah, the thing is he doesn't usually have a 1% to say, damn the lucent heart video roasting haha. But he states a lot of facts.
He doesn't nitpick those games. Those games suck over 50% instead of 1%.
Josh's worst mmo (Questionmark) video's could actually do the opposite and make the crappy games more interresting, as seen on "tv" almost always makes people want to try it out for themselves.
June 21th, 2021.
Still no message from Taquito Bandito.
We're starting to lose hope, but for now we will keep checking.
Will keep you informed.
Underrated comment
Someone needs to take his avatar and draft it up on the rear of a milk carton.
Please, find my boy! We miss him!
Put this on a mug
He scarpered to save his face from embarrassment. Likely to never to return.
Whenever I buy a game I know nothing about on steam, I always look at the negative reviews first. In my opinion, it's important to at least be aware of the issues I can run into before jumping in.
I got the advice some years ago that if you want to know the truth about a product you should look for middling reviews because they tend to be most honest, and so far it's held pretty true. It's a shame steam only has a "Yea or Nay" reviews system.
Love this!! Even when majority is like "You can't be a terrible person and think only the negatives!" You kinda have to when it comes to reviews and really anything you want to invest money or time into... think of scams for instance, scams, you need to first check if that scam really is one by negatively thinking it's a scam
@@MaraJinksblade On that last part, I really wish it was just something like TH-cam's old school 5 stars rating system on Steam. Yes or no, black or white decision making doesn't work with a lot of things imo. Too many nuances to over generalize experiences to, "objectively good, objectively bad".
That's fair, but I think that's kind of an entirely different level of investigation. The above video is simply saying "nothing is perfect, so don't base your perceptions on perfection/idealism." Which after breaking through that barrier, leads to more meaningful ways to approach negative reviews. As mentioned in the video above, a lot of negativity in gaming can stem from the perfectionism thing.
@@MaraJinksblade Middle reviews are always the best. People there are able to see where a product could be better while still acknowledging the faults. People who give things 1 star are ether over complaining (The packaging was damaged in shipping and blame the product) or ran into an uncommon critical error (I couldn't install DOOM eternal on my 386)
no problem guys, i got you. give me 10k and me and my friend will FINALLY make THE ONE mmo you have been waiting for all those years.
Just give me 5K and i will make the mmo you are dreaming to play.
(You literally have to dream to play it, it will be completely random and everything is procedurally generated)
Ok where is monster girl quest mmo?
for 1,99 i can provide the same
but can I buy google map tiles from it though?
I assume that you have over 9 years of experience in game dev, am I right?
This is so strange for me. Whenever I talk about video games, I almost never focus on the bad, unless the game is incredibly janky or buggy. I always focus on the positive stuff, the stuff that keeps me coming back. I usually have to be coaxed into talking about bad stuff with people. I really don't care if people want to "waste" their time on bad games (in my opinion). As long as they're happy, or finding fulfillment that isn't destructive, I'm okay with that. 😊
"Advice is often a form of nostalgia" is a mug-worthy quote. Preferably on a really old-fashioned looking mug.
Made out of wood ... with a hole in the bottom.
with a metal base, because without, it's not a mug.
@@WakoDoodle A mug exclusively used for spiked coffee.
Don't give him more mug ideas ffs
@@avalonazure5488 How about a Mugmug Mug?
It's a mug made of 3 mugs moulded together. You can hold 3 drinks at once and it has a rotatable lid so when you drink, the other 2 won't spil, thanks to the seal around the lid !
4:30 I have recently been able to (hopefully definitely) overcome the sunk cost fallacy and I want to share my story.
I have played WoW on and off since Vanilla. I used to be a raider, but I only enjoyed raiding with friends, and the online group felt apart long ago. Eventually I ended up playing only for collecting stuff, and at first it was really exciting, I was making progress and each new item/achievement felt rewarding. The more I got, the less exciting it was.
When I started the biggest grinds I got lost in the game, living around the daily/weekly stuff I set for myself. This actually had an impact in my real life and I regret it deeply.
At some point the fun was lost and I felt like I had to keep going because I almost had everything. Whenever I got something I felt relieved... not rewarded. I thought "At some point I will be done with it I guess" but they keep on adding more and more collectibles with new patches. Instead of being excited for new patches, I wanted them to arrive later, and, at the end, not arrive at all. (9.1 for example)
I knew I've been wanting to quit collecting for at least a year or two, but the sunk cost fallacy is a very strong thing and I couldn't bring myself to do it.
I realized Retail was more a job or a cage than a game for me(not hating the game, just what I had made it). I only played it because I had soooo much collected and so much time invested, and everything would be lost if I did quit. How could I?
I found that playing TBC Classic with no aspirations, no grinds, only playing what I want and when I want, has made me "click" and made the hard decision (for me it was lol) of quitting retail altogether.
I haven't logged into Retail for the longest time since I started hardcore collecting about 6 years ago. And I feel... free.
Sorry for the rant, just wanted to share a sunk cost fallacy struggle so that people get a picture of what it is.
Remember you will never have everything in a game because they will always add something new and it will just drive you insane so don't worry about it, I hope you find the fun in a game again and enjoy.
That what you said, "I feel relieved but not rewarded" is really deep to me. Because in my life multiple things turned out to be like this, and then I loose completely my pleasure to do so. But now that I recognize that because of you, I can hope for an better understanding and consequently a better life. Thanks
The pre-release dislikes are probably from Taquito Bandito
or gamigo
OMEGALUL
It's prob because having to wait for the video to land for hours suck.
Kaminoken Phyx Isn’t that what happens either way?
@@asmodeus.rl9 Yeah, but there isn't a hook dangling there when there isn't a premiere.
One point I would add is that you could really make a case for the "silent majority" argument in MMOs. The usually casual players who just play the game and enjoy it at their own pace are usually not the people invested in it so much that they will go online to talk about it. You will almost never hear the opinions of the casual playerbase, because they rarely voice them. On top of that, the people who are really invested into the game but enjoy it, don't go online to talk about positives either. There are exceptions of MMO evangelists of course, but they are a rare case. Overall the part of the playerbase you encounter online is almost exclusively the part that is most negative about it, but you never really know how big or small that part is in the overall playerbase.
Playing MMOs is like being Larry King's love life;
Lots of marriages & divorces,
& maybe telling a few guys at the bar how much you hated your last ex.
7:13
"Imagine a bus-"
And just like that, I forgot what video game channel I was watching for a second.
"Find the version of suckiness of any MMO you like" damnn that is a good point
Comparing pros and cons, simple but sometimes we forget.
I just want an MMO where combat is not required in order to complete the main quests and to thrive in the game world.
@@SeppelSquirrel Deplomacy? Disgusting.
But really, better yet, don't have a main story and focus on building a world that stories appear from, some players can just live as a farmer some guard towns, some adventure and some went up the ranks to rule a town. Big quests are the wars different factions end up waging against each other. A pack of wolves might inhabit an abandoned cave and that becomes a problem, then a guild puts out a request for someone to deal with it, and if the person trying it completes it then those wolves are gone, but something will eventually take it's place.
@@edit3891 I'm talking more like cooking shows, rock concerts, and corporate espionage.
@@SeppelSquirrel Intresting, would be interesting to see more of those options in MMOs, though it seems like it's all funneled to be combat because it's often fun for most players and adding more options doing a quest takes effort.
Are you saying I should give Raid: Shadow Legends a chance, Josh? Is this whole channel a lead up to a Raid ad?
It's actually not *THAT* bad. If you've ever played a gatcha game (summoners war, epic 7), it's basically the game thing but with different skins.
@@wrytte I played King of Avalon for a while (I know, technically different, but it’s another of the stupid ads/ragged on games club). It was pretty fun. Plus, Raid pays absolute bank. lol
True, Raid actually not the worse
They're just a copy of a copy of game that were famous and working
and put their own little twist here and there
But I do hate them solely from their annoying ad campaign
Like c'mon 3 mins ads? srly
If only TH-cam not being a btch, I'll probably hate every youtuber who accept their ads offer
If you like star wars, there is galaxy of heroes that may interest you. It is a similar type of game, and there is one with marvel characters too.
@@Lfancoes I never hate on a creator for accepting a sponsor, even if I can’t stand that sponsor (though I may point out things about the sponsor in a comment if I believe they’re potentially harmful). TH-camrs generally put a lot of effort into creating content and I’m not going to get upset at someone for doing what pays the bills so they can keep creating that content. Especially if it means they can put more time into making that content good.
"Runescape looks like this." Greatest reason given. 🤣🤣🤣
It's even better when someone playing one of the version bashes the other for graphics; and we all know nobody plays RS for the graphics...
Runescape looking how it does is actually one of the reasons its so well recognizable and perfect for branding.
@@ДимитърПоптолев i do. Its like people who like sm64 or doom, retro is a memorable look
This video highlights a big part of what kept me around watching this channel even though my MMO days are long passed (for now at least). With every MMO you look at, even in the "Worst MMO Ever" series, when you find something you like you point it out and make a point to talk about it and why you like it, even in the midst of whatever else might be negative about the game. Its something I try to do as well and I can say there's rarely if ever a game where I can't find anything positive about it, maybe not enough to redeem the game as a whole, but there's almost always at least something positive I can take away from the experience.
I think this mentality is primarily a result of MMOs trying to appeal to ever-broader audiences. Generally speaking it seems they're trying to be everything to everyone to attract the most people (and money), rather than focusing on being truly great at any particular thing, which ends up causing the experience to feel shallow.
This is also one of the charms of an mmo. A very broad game with intertwined systems.
@@yannickgullentops6857 except no
Because the BEST mmos have always been tight and focused only new age mmos (and current wow xpacs) are like that because instead of trying to be good theyre trying to milk money
@@V2ULTRAKill Runescape for example has always been an extremely broad game for example. Can you give me an example of what you consider a more specialized mmo?
@@yannickgullentops6857 i wouldn't say that RuneScape is a broad mmo... I think what he means is the mmos nowadays are trying to do everything great: the combat, dungeons, guilds, quests, gear, exploration, pvp etc.
But (at least IMO) RuneScape doesn't really try to have a good Combat system for example. It's rather a click and wait and so it only appeals for people that are interestes in that type of combat, while MMOs that are being released nowadays try to go the fast paced action combat route becasue that's most likely what the majority of the players will enjoy.
@@PerionTermia ofcourse, but as a game it is still quite broad, lots of skills to train, quests, minigames, exploration, pvp etc?
"Try them all and find the one that sucks in a way that works for you"
What do I do when that certain special MMO has been shut down while I was busy flirting with other MMOs?
RIP WildStar
Time machine harder.
Play a private server of it xD
if it was good enough before it died, there will be at least one x)
Awesome video Josh! Just started playing MMO again, this time trying GW2. Keep up the amazing quality on the videos
Welcome to the GW2 community friend :-) hope you enjoy your time with the game!
"should you watch josh strife hayes?"
"No hes the copium channel."
"what about kiraTV?"
"Just another neckbeard rants channel"
"Asmongold?"
"bald"
yeah youre right this works for everything
im joking by the way
Lol the "bald" got me real good. gg well played
Just recently found this channel. Love how you keep it real with people, keep up the quality content m8 :)
Love the video! Any chance in future videos you could pop the name of the game being shown in the corner or something? I often see interesting games but have no idea what they are! 😊
The casualness is exactly what I love about GW2. My gear I got years ago is never out of date. I can jump on at any time and play raid level encounters with 40 to 80 other players without having to coordinate anything in advance.
But what is the point of that game ? I started GW2 couple of days ago, and everything is so easy that you can literally just use the " auto cast this skill " and win everything, i just couldnt stomach it more than a day. Absolutely nothing gave any challenge what so ever.
The exp keeps piling in so rapidly that while i was doing the first quests and "golden heart events" the game told me that im now over leveled for that zone and have been reduced down to match it.
I didnt even know that E skill is a heal, i never needed to use it, just found it out by accidentally mouse overing it.
The game shovels all sorts of boosters and potions and lotions at you in such a fast pace that the few bags what i've got, have like 2 empty spots for loot, rest is full of booster crap.
I mean each for their own and whatever floats your boat, but damn man, it feels like -that- level of casual player would be happy to have a button that yells " YOU WIN " on their desk, and that might be more challenging that GW2
Late reply, but I wanted to add a bit of context to what you experienced. You were likely playing through the standard beginner’s experience in Core Tyria. You’re dropped into a beginner zone (level 1-15) and slowly introduced to game mechanics as you level. Relatively quickly you’ll level up a few times and unlock additional skills, weapon swapping depending on your class, and so on.
Because it’s a “casual” game it really eases you into it. But if you, as a level 10 crushing most of Queensdale, decide to jump onto a level 20 zone and fight level 20 enemies then you’ll die pretty quick, and there’s no real incentive to do so since higher-level quests and enemies don’t necessarily translate to higher rewards. If you stick with zones around your level you’ll have a pretty smooth leveling experience. If you want a complex early gameplay experience you can try to solo champion enemies, most of which are intended to be group fights.
Once you unlock dungeons at level 30, fights where positioning and mechanics matter start to show up in those dungeons. This is also true for fractals and raids, both of which start at level 80. Additionally, to address complaints about Core Tyria being too easy, the zones in Maguuma and Crystal Desert are much more challenging from a combat standpoint.
Regarding “endgame”, the only true endgame content is fractals and World vs World. Fractals because you need what’s essentially the highest-tier gear for those, and WvW because it’s a series of server vs server vs server PvP maps where you’ll really want the extra stats given by the highest-tier gear. Raids require max level but only the second highest-tier gear, and open world maps are split between leveling maps and max-level maps but with no real gear requirements.
So if you’re a player that wants a challenging gameplay experience out of the box, you won’t really get that. The game eases you into the world and wants you to be interested in both the environment and the story, and that story progresses through maps and dungeons far past max level.
Final note, if you’re just interested in standard PvP, you can jump right into that immediately. All gear and stats are standardized, though you can select your builds, so you need to win through gameplay rather than flexing gear or cash shop stuff.
My only complaint so far is that I need to be in guild to start puzzles
@@_Lunaria Have you tried falling down? Fall damage is brutal and unforgiving
I was distracted from the start of video by the out of place strand of hair on the right side of your head (your left).
Thanks for the quality content as usual ^^
"Which MMO should i play?"
You might as well ask "Which food should i eat?"
Hi Josh, thanks for making your content. You're one of the very few people I subscribe to, your content really is awesome to chill out to.
All MMOs suck until we have one with a system for pooping.
"Aww man we wiped hard in raid last night, the healer shit his robes."
Great video as always, but I was hoping for some YGO cards in this mug. :/
The only thing I'd add to the topic is when people love smth they get invested, when the game is changing, they hate on it, but still play it. Its a love hate relationship. I think every mmo player has that.
I don't always agree with you, but I always understand what you mean and appreciate your content. You're well versed in critical thinking and make excellent points in every video, which is why I gleefully continue to watch. Thank you for exploring the MMO genre of gaming in your own unique way, it's always worth one of those saucy thumb's up like button click thingies.
You contribute to this problem so much. Most people get their first impression in the first few seconds, or the first line of text. Those people who ask if they should play an MMO are all either looking for confirmation bias (in which people's opinions don't matter because they're either jerking their confirmation bias off or they're looking for a flame war) or if they are, their attention spans are so short that the first line will tell them if they should play something or not. So all your "Worst MMO Ever?" series videos, when people search for an MMO's name and see your video at the top as a review with your bedazzlingly handsome face, are just telling them this MMO is bad and they shouldn't play it. They won't watch a whole 30 minute video, they don't have time for that! You are part of the problem! And that's why I haven't tried that MMO called Tinder. It's your fault, Josh.
Yo! Nice TH-cam play button up there on your shelf. Well deserved!!!
"It has Lalafell" looool, I love that line xD
It's funny because it's true.
The longer you play FFXIV, the less you look at them as dumb and the more you fear them.
@@thewoollywizard3762 you are right, I started the thaumaturge guild with my character and was scared already ahah.
@@thewoollywizard3762 I've never looked at them as dumb, because the game has worse looking races. not sure what is up with those proportionally weird not-elves.
Most of the time when I like an MMO, I just tend to wish it was an offline single player game, possibly with online co-op instead.
The always online component of MMOs is too intertwined with DRM and monetization, and often leads to sacrificesin design to accomodate those.
The evolutionary benefit of this is, negative stuff gets you killed. “I’m sure going in that cave is an awesome idea, or eating that will be great!” And it did save people to tell them how bad things can be, of course in the modern age it’s pretty annoying!
Phantasy Star Online 2 New Genesis had a rough start to the point I was considering that it sucked over the lag and player shop issues it had during it's first week. Now I think it's rather good, but I'm not as addicted to it as I was when the original Phantasy Star Online 2 global servers.
I remember playing PSO2 when it released in Asia... I thought of it as Monster Hunter, but SPACE! And it was a great MMO. I miss it so much, but the thing's 100 gigabytes and i can't play it now
Not much to do in new gen. But im still playing it daily. Leveling up to 20 is taking me alot more longer than i thought. But im ok with it. Combat is alot of fun and i feel like its perfect for those that want to get an early shot at being strong enough for when the new content does arrive.
All good points. It's worth mentioning in your ebay example, I think, that oftentimes negative reviews are more insightful and detailed than the positive ones. Same with employer reviews. Tons of positive reviews will tell you "this employer is great," or "best product I've ever bought," and leave it at that. A negative review will often (not always) tell you "this employer/product sucks AND here's why."
You're right though, if a product has 99% positive feedback in a decent sample size of reviews, I still wanna read the negative ones. Even if I know I'll still buy the product based on the 99%, there's still that morbid curiosity.
When I was younger I spent years on a MMO called Dofus, half-way I started to really hate it, it wasn't good and the community was terrible, but I kept playing, I left that game later because of drama, but I felt relieved because I realized I was finally free of the sunk cost fallacy.
I played that game a bit recently for nostalgia, oh boy it's even worse now than ever.
Omg I'm not the only one who's played it. They recently released a retro version before the graphic changes. One of my favorite MMOs. I still have it on my PC even though I don't play it
It used to be incredibly popular.
I played the next game, Wakfu. Let's say it was simply buggy (at the level of "can't act in combat" or "item disappearing"), the possibility to attack anyone, the free pvp made a lot of drama. The game also had grind problems and crafting was garbage yet necessary to progress.
Dofus remains the same, grind problem and crafting garbage but necessary to progress.
I played it back in the end of 2020, it didn't improved, some classes are left to rot and most of their efforts went into the cash shop.
I stopped playing it because the quests and ways to progress were not my thing.
@@Shinnouryu I quit because the top players ran the markets and dungeons on Solar. So if you joined the server later like I did, it was hard to get equipment and groups. Guilds with high percs taking all the good farming spots and paddocks.
I jumped on the 1.29 reboot when it first launched and that was the best Dofus I ever played. Everyone farming prespic sets and gob dungeon. Leveling with a new guild. That was amazing.
I asked “why should I play your game” in 4 subreddits, one told me to play something else, another banned me, one told me to fuck off, another told me why it’s awesome… and to fuck off.
I know you used it as an example but i like the combat in ESO, though mostly cus my scrawny healer ass can look at the fireworks from a safe distance...
This brings up a really interesting thought about how personal one's gaming experiences can be, because I've seen on so many occasions, people saying a certain game is absolutely terrible, but then you get a small percentage replying, "yeah, it's not the best, but I have a lot of fondness for it, because it got me through a tough time" or "yeah, but I love all these certain features in it and just have so much fun playing it". I think it just goes to show that, yeah, getting others' opinions is all well and good, but at the end of the day, it's ultimately up to the individual to try a game and decide whether it is worth their time or not.
i love how it took science to 'know' that the only thing better than loving the same things as someone is hating the same things, as if it hasnt been a thing in pop culture for decades
What is the game called in the bottom left corrner (left of Neverwinter nights) at 0:43?
I feel like with MMOS, the best way to approach recommendations (and the same goes for games in general), is to start with what the person is interested in as it will start to narrow things out from the get-go, but at the same time I feel like I personally value the opinion on veteran's the most. Because even if they're opinions might be jaded, it helps paint a picture of the state of the game for me, I for one can usually not recommended the ones I grew up with because of the poor game state unless the person is really interested in what they have to offer. And as for the negative part, I can't blame people for jumping straight to them since MMOs are black holes of time, and while they can often use polish to become actual arguments, but I get it when it comes to long games
... And as for my own negative take, yes the Guild Wars 2 story is indeed a garbage fire, but it's combat well never not be one of the best things about it and is still worth it even with it's hilariously bad story, which IMO, just about every MMO has a bad story
"That's a circular junction for you Americans"
I have literally never heard it called that, either it's called roundabout, or as the GPS calls it, traffic circle
Always found fascinating that behaviour. Right now I'm playing Elder Scrolls Online and Guild Wars 2. Because I love those games. While I', sure they have, I can't say anything bad, can't find a flaw. For me those two games are flawless, perfect. Love the design, love the combat, the progresssion, the lore, the way the game is made and the way I play it. I also play Star Trek Online every now and then because I'm a trekker and while the game is actually quite awfull it's story and lore are by far the best iterations nowadays Star Trek has, and I love the way you can personalize everything for your ship, not just aesthetics. The crew, officers, crew's tasks... It's the wet dream of any trekker that likes roleplay. Black Desert, I love the crafting, the economy, the saliing, the sea, fishing, and the combat. It's a game that gives me mixed feelings (I really hate open PvP) but there are things I love and that make me return every now and then. In the near future, I'm waiting for Lost Ark and Sword of Legends Online because I loved what I saw. I play what I like. What I enjoy. There are plenty of games I hate with passion. League of Legends, Fortnite, For Honor... I don't play those games. I hate them. Hate the game, the aesthetics, the gameplay, the lore, everything. I find them revolting. So I don't play them. World of Warcraft was a game I loved. Now I don't love it. It makes me feel bored. So I don't play it.
Can't understand why people play games they hate. I play stuff that makes me feel good, allows me to have a good time. Otherwise, what's the point? I've have a job, I'm alredy doing stuff I don't like at all. I don't need that in my spare time.
Addiction is a real trick of the mind. People will put up with terrible experiences in the hope something good will happen to them, even if they have no control in that at all and they are just pulling an RNG crank over and over.
@L M The worst part about people who hate WoW is how often they'll claim that "the game is dying", completely oblivious to the fact it still breaks sales records and still has an absolutely massive playerbase compared to most MMOs
Fun... i remember having fun in MMO games... Now i'm just filling that void in my soul... Chasing the dragon... Trying to get my next fix...
*DING*
Oh hey! Level 120 Cooking!
Thank you, Josh. I'm having a lot of fun with my little wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle guild wars 2. I love not having to race for gear and going at my pace. It's like a single player game that's populated and I can choose to make it an MMO or keep playing my solo adventure whenever I want. I love my freedom of choice, it's true authority. This comes from an 2400+ hours FFXIV player. I love my FF obviously, it's just that this change of pace in combat and world perspective is very much welcome.
Regarding the ebay rating analogy; I try to read the things people put in their ratings. if its a whole bunch of people saying they never got what they ordered or they got the wrong thing, yeah I'll skip that seller. But if its a couple people complaining their item arrived a few days late, I disregard those buyers. First world problems. Especially since I live in America where our postal service is often the reason packages are late...
I was playing WoW on a private server for a while (Dalaran, thanks for asking), and while I was having a great time soaking in nostalgia and doing all the old quests from when I first played, Guild and general chats were ALWAYS full of people complaining about how terrible retail WoW was. Which I totally couldn't identify with because I loved how the world and quests were freshened up with Cataclysm and there was so much new stuff to see and do. But no, that was the point where the sky fell and everything turned to garbage and on and on and on in the same vein.
Now ironically, that version of WoW actually did suck in some extra ways, since the economy was totally out of whack and Northrend was stuffed full of bots and some quests just plain didn't work right, especially escort missions. But for a free nostalgia trip? Good enough for me.
I've watched a lot of your videos lately. This one is probably one of the best. You should do more like this in the vein of mmo discourse psychology.
This is one of the best videos you've made. Thanks for creating this reference to send to people that say your game sucks lol
Since you asked, I’m playing RuneScapes new mobile release after your incredibly touching videos about it. I haven’t found the suck yet. I also actively play GW2.
Josh....we obviously have round abouts, they are the most efficient way of traffic in low traffic areas such as residential areas. Still love your videos!! Also what about talking about when is it during the MMO experience do players feel that relaxed "ahhhh" moment when that it just clicks!
Thanks a lot Josh I really needed to hear this, I'm glad that it's OK to have this type of mentality as someone who has been playing MMO's ever since I was in Elementary School with OSRS then moved to kMMOs. My neighborhood friends at some point didn't want to play with me anymore, so MMO's allowed me to make all kinds amazing friends and people.
This mindset is what kept me from playing ESO for so long. I started last weekend and am loving it. :]
I have been playing ESO for 6 years now, imo now's a good time to give it ago. Have fun!
It's objectively shit, if they still make you pay a monthly sub just for a craft bag. There, I said it :D.
@@Nostromo2144 boo hoo. You can fully ignore crafting in the game. im cp 270 with all crafting at like level 4. Theres other perks to eso+ anyways, like ya know having access to all past content without needing to outright buy it. Who cares if they gate the crafting bag.
@@Nostromo2144 lol I do agree about the crafting bag, it is a little bad to have it locked behind a pay wall
@@thefilmdirector1 I do. So I choose to fully ignore the game. ;-p
07:20 - We do have "roundabouts" here in the Colonies, Josh. The proper word is "rotary." ;)
So you're saying I got the green light to play Isekai: Demon Waifu?
9:12 Isnt Black Desert in the Big 5 instead of OSRS?
My favorite MMO is FFXI, still, to this day. I'd love to see you do a video about FFXI one day, Josh. Completely objective if you did. :D
You know, this kind of applies to every game. They all have mistakes that people brood over while the majority of the game is great. We all just need to start acknowledging that and then we will be able to find games that we enjoy a whole lot easier.
Came here for cynical take on MMOs, got one of the best descriptions I've ever heard of why Democracy is trash.
True democracy simply wouldn't work and often gets very close votes, see UK Brexit vote of 52% yes to 48% no. Not to mention all the media and people screaming at you saying you voted wrong, despite there being no right or wrong vote. The democracy in most countries says people living in some places, their votes are worth more than those living in other places, which gets votes to pass when they would be too close otherwise.
12:39 considering i play Tarutaru in 14's older cousin, id like to know why people have such issues with even seeing such races about. theres usually enough other options.
I still have my FFXI account going !
Would love to see you do a video on the psychological aspect of video games. More specifically how to properly convey different feelings in a natural way as a game progresses.
Hey Josh, great video and topic that applies not only to MMO's but other games genres and even movies or books, I had the same thought about a game that I play called Warframe to which many people refer to as grind simulator but I never minded the grind, It's the part of the experience as a whole and I don't hate that game just because it can get grindy.
Playing a mmo is sometimes like being in an abusive relationship. Especially if it has a grotesque cash shop. That said, FFXIV Endwalkers release is so far away and I have all classes (combat/gathering/crafting) at cap and ran outta things I want to do :( Well, still trying to get a large housing plot but thats one of the most frustrating part of FFXIV. The only other complaint I can really say is that some of the side quests, especially in the base game and end game of each xpack is just running around talking to npcs even though it could have been just a single in game rendered cut scene.
Those analogies though!!
The MMORPG community needed this video.
Obviously EverQuest (and II) are the MMORPGs that everyone need to play right now.
Everquest Next please
@@vyntarus9618 EQN went into the Dumpster. Guess that's what happens when direction is weak during development.
EQ2 is the mmo I’ve played the longest. Back before WOW was released and just past when Star Wars online released. I personally feel the Star Wars mmo killed EQ2, pulled too many players away and SOE made some shitty moves after that…oh well I’ll always have those good memories of running a Templar solo through bosses
@@vyntarus9618 We will never have another official Everquest. Pantheon Rise of the Fallen will be Everquest's successor
My boy here totally earned my subscription ..... Top notch quality conent. Thank you for producing it.
Ps im no casual so I play osrs
You covered FFXIV weakness all too well, thats so true.
Damned Lalafells.
@Very Sad I feel like "don't have to worry about money" is a positive, not a negative. You don't have to worry ever about affording potions or crafting materials or paying to fly somewhere, that's just sort of there to be a limiter very early on. It's nice to not have to worry about that when you already have to worry about tons of other things.
I hadn't noticed before, that black console you have back there is a SEGA Master System III, right?
“No one’s special if everyone’s special” turned to ‘no one sucks if everyone sucks’, which I guess is also true.
That logic will get you elected to office if you're not careful! ;)
Nah they still suck, but it makes pointing it out redundant. If only a few sucked, you could say "oh those suck". With them all sucking you gotta get into the specifics (as he said in the video, so you can figure out what suck doesn't suck so much for you.)
Or here's another tautology: don't play mmos if you don't love mmos!
@@Nostromo2144 people die if they are killed
I’m choosing to believe that everything said from 2:58 onwards is from that Baz Luhrman song
I've been playing Genshin Impact since it premiered and I can't get enough of it. There are things that suck about it, but I honestly don't care, the good outweighs the bad in a huge way.
I'm actually playing Meridian 59 after watching your video. It sucks because it's old and obtuse but that's where most of the charm comes from!
LMAO mate - your roundabout analogy so reminded me of the Brexit days in the UK... Churchill had it right - democracy is terrible, just preferable to the alternatives
Heh that's pretty true to be fair. Every time I come across anyone espousing the values of communism (or any other form of governance) you can bet they have never had any experience of living under such a regime. They are always quick to point out the problems with democracy but usually to be found wanting when it comes to offering up solutions.
this is sadly valid for games in general and not just MMOs (also many single player games are played much shorter). Especially the part were people will jump on hate wagon without touching that specific game (like actually playing it). I have also seen one other trend in games. If something is a bit more difficult or challenging (maybe you need few tries to get it done correctly), one can jump very fast complaining that it is because game does not allow them to do this or that, even if it is a valid game mechanics.
This isn’t a Kenshi review
Kenshi is the best game I ever played
@@adoringfan1226 its starts crashing the moment you start building
Any idea how to fix it?
@@milanjudak7574 The one thing I know of that will definitely crash your game, other than making a mistake while modding, is exceeding your RAM limit. There is a workaround- I just can't remember what it was off the top of my head. If you poke around I'm sure you'll figure it out. Stick with it. Kenshi is a gift from god
@@adoringfan1226 yep it is
@@milanjudak7574 The first thing I would try is the CTD fix patch
This definitely helps me further understand the MMO community, or just gaming in general.
It's definitely been a thing I've kinda understood, but someone actually taking the time to interpret and talk about it inna video definitely helps. 😆
Never have I been insulted by something that I 100% agree with
Good job Mr. Josh
so f'ing true. I play so many mmo's i don't even care about reaching max level
Great video, awesome advice!
WoW sucks because the lead designer says one thing and does another. Repeating mistakes while taking out good things while keeping that garbage follower's table in the game. However, I cannot play a druid in any other game where I can drop moons and stars on my enemy heads while in the form of an owlbear. Also, I happen to like the art style of WoW. I don't really care about realistic looking graphics all that much. I just like having things to do endgame I suppose. And while I have been trying to delve into FF14, it's not the same. I've tried other MMO's in the past, with one of the first ones I played was Runescape. However, I was forever turned off from the game when I played as a female character and every time I logged on, there was at least one idiot asking me to be their girlfriend.
Buying gf
FFXIV suffers from a lot of the same core design problems that WoW does, but with the added addition of locking everything behind the MSQ.
@@JellyJonesey to be fair if you don't like or care about ffxiv's msq there's not really a reason to play it to begin with.
Josh if you want med clues don't waste your time on the Falador guards, go to puro puro and hunt eclectic imps
I recently discovered this channel, and I’m really enjoying the vids. Even though my MMO days are past me, I still find them interesting. You should do a video on City of Heroes. Yes, it got shut down years ago, but there was a leak of the source code in 2019 and the game is now active again using private servers. It goes by the name City of Heroes: Homecoming.
I'd be interested in his criticism too, at least he won't be able to slam it for its monetization
omfg josh the color correcting is on POINT
I'm surprised that you haven't mentioned Housing when talking about FFXIV.
I mean, you're not wrong, but not every MMO game will have housing. And those that do will have different systems for it.
Very on point, as usual. Recently started playing Star Trek Online. A lot of players complain that it's too combat-oriented and doesn't feel like real Trek. A lot of players complain about the ground combat (which does actually kind of suck). But you know what? I'm having a blast, flaws and all.
Been re-addicted to RS3 again since last week's vid. Welp back to the rabbit hole I go
I haven't played rs since 2007 or so . . . Wonder if my account is even still there if I tried to log in. Granted I would have to figure out my password, email is easy since I only had 1 back then and it's unused now.
Edit: Now I'm having flashbacks of dealing with dial up and getting kicked off of this game in the wilderness because someone tried to call . . .
@@Deram1Axres Fortunately I had a very janky account name that was easy to remember 😂 I actually stopped around 2006, came back for a few weeks in 2013, and now active again
Well, looks like I can log in. Granted its on the new RS3 and probably no way to get the character data to classic but still nice to have an account with a bunch of skills in the 40+ range and a couple 59-60, 58attack, 57str and def and 56hp . . . don't know how quick it is to level these things now but that felt like it took forever. Granted I spent most of my time back then fishing and cooking swordies to sell . . .
@@Deram1Axres Time to get back to the grindfest heheh
@@thatextraguy21 Ya, already added some member time to the account . . . Gotta do something while I wait for FFXIV Endwalker in late November lol
You are such an awesome TH-camr man xD Love the style!
I play on-off The Elder Scrolls Online ... xD
It really doesnt suck at all xD but after playing it for 5 years, its magic kind of wears off x(
I too love going to r/mmorpg to see what's being hated on lately
This video has really opened my eyes to the biggest problem with the MMO gamers. I love Guild Wars 2. I'm thinking about trying out Elder Scrolls Online
Could you please cover Star Wars The Old Republic in a future video?
I dont find his opinions on good games very interesting, he wont say much aside from nitpicks
Should you play swtor
Do you like tab targeting? Do you like star wars?
Do you want to spend all your time in an mmo doing solo content because fuck logic?
Then maybe, if youre a whale swtor is for you
7:13 HUH?? Thought I jumped to a Summoning Salt-video all of a sudden x-D
Josh: Your favourite MMO SUCKS!
Me: I could have told you that and saved us both some time :p
4:46 Fore shadowing?
In conclusion, when you ask, "which MMO should I play," be sure to wear sunscreen. It's scientifically proven.
Is Phantasy Star Online 2 New Genesis MMO? If it is i love it. It has some lag issue but i don't mind
i love spiral knights, and started playing it again, no one plays it? yeah, the servers kinda suck? sure
i'm having fun, and i don't need more, i already have life to be mad about lol
Spiral Knights yee
My spiral knight was named Bomb-Omb and I mained those grenade things you had to charge and drop. Loved that game. So sad it died.
@@LightSkinJedi1920 sounds familiar, I think I had a friend with a similar name. My main char was called Arrowshaft
@@LightSkinJedi1920 yeah, i play like an hour per day and i'm top crown farmer of the week and shit, pretty oof
Man your mug is awesome!
My main mmorpg is old and bad. I am still there years now for the friends I've made and all the work Ive put into my accts. I never down play the game or other players while ingame. I leave that up to the murder hobos and trolls. They never fail. Awesome video thumbs up.
I suppose it's like asking what shoes are the most comfortable for a 20 mile run, after that amount of running even the most minor itch will be torture to those who still use them.