Lengthened Partials DON’T Stimulate “Stretch-Mediated Hypertrophy”
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video, Milo from Stronger By Science discusses the hype around stretch-mediated hypertrophy. Do long-length partials stimulate stretch-mediated hypertrophy? Is lengthened training good for hypertrophy?
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#stretching #hypertrophy #scienceexplained
"Lengthened Partials DON’T Stimulate “Stretch-Mediated Hypertrophy” "
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This is a great way to digest what's been talked about in the longer podcase episodes. Great work!
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Please consider lowering the background music further or removing it! It was quite distracting; however, I noticed the respite at 15:30 made the information dense material much more easy to digest. It could just be me though.
I remember buying a book called "x reps' like 20 years ago, and they had this info back then, basically on your last set after failure you do up to 10 x reps in the stretch position even if the weight is barely moving.
I did get extremly sore and made great gains, but somehow i forgot about this system.
Its funny how science goes in circles every 20 years.
There's a difference between birds and humans? Well, now my day is ruined.
Very informative video, fantastic work!
Do we have an official and accepted definitions for "stretch"? Without a better understanding of the mechanisms of stretch mediation, it seems unlikely we can have a very solid definition. I agree that it's probably not very helpful to conflate research using static stretching to lengthened training or lengthened partials, but I question whether we have a understanding of the mechanisms and accepted definitions to say whether "stretch mediated" is or isn't a component of training at longer muscle lengths. At what length is a sarcomere officially "stretched". Is it the sarcomere length, or the tension on specific structures "titin, nebulin, the extracellular matrix". Is it the activation of specific mechanic receptors etc etc. Is this an attempt at a working definition that should be named "static stretching mediated hypertrophy"?
42617. Surprise! Yoga practioners aren’t jacked.
Milo and longer muscle lenght gang will cry when they see this
My man numbers every single TH-cam comment he makes.
Me too, comment number 69420
But some are quite "toned" and look "fit". That always puzzled me, since I was the guy who said "girls who look good in yoga pants don't do yoga". Now it makes sense, it's due to all that stretching alone., which is enough to reap some results.
Indeed. Not by a long stretch.
My thoughts exactly. Just like long distance runners aren't huge, but sprint bikers have big legs...
anyone can explain the 42617 thing to me?
Bots? Who knows lol
Dante Trudel was talking about 20+ years ago. Check the extreme stretching in his DC Trading
yeah except he believed it was causing hyperplasia which is ludicrous
@@jedinxf7 thought the point was that we don't know if it is or isn't because we literally haven't studied it?
Honestly, if it stimulates or not, being able to say "Stretch-mediated hypertrophy" as a means to indicate to someone that the person is missing out on gains because their shortened partials doesn't allows the muscle to stretch, thus, they're missing on their stretch mediated hypetrophy gains, is really good and just feels right. This video seems more like you're trying to say that there's much more to lengthened partials than just the stretching part and that's okay, but I still believe most peoples problems in the gym is not getting a full stretch or full rom, and long lengthened partials should be used more as a means to scientifically show what that person is probably missing out than an actual way of training (at least for beginners).
"..... Check out the more in-depth video...." Milo says! Blimey....My brain has just had an intense workout watching this. Thanks for this. All your content is very much appreciated.
Incidentally, have you seen The Phantom Tollbooth? The boys name is Milo. 🙂
Honestly, it just makes much more sense to release tension for just a second or two to flush out some of the burn and immediately crank out another 3 or 4 controlled reps, still focusing heavily on the eccentric
Im monkey please give us some practical tips extrapolated from this video with some training animation
I started sleeping on a 15th century rack used for stretch torture. Gotta tighten those ropes for gainz brah. My dislocated shoulders and hips are getting some mad stretch-mediated hypertrophy!
brb sleeping on the bench while holding dumbbells in the lengthened fly position to stimulate stretch mediated chest hypertrophy in my sleep
I used to take naps on an inversion table, and I did not get any stretch meditated hypertrophy to my back :/
PLEASE do a video on leverages and whether or not they matter and should be considered in exercise selection. E.G the lats lose leverage at the bottom of a pullover but they are most stretched, should we do the pullover as the lengthened biased resistance curve and the full lengthening of the muscle are beneficial enough to override the lack of leverage? or should we do an illiac pulldown instead because leverage is really important...
Aren't they least stretched at the bottom of a pullover?
Regardless, pick exerices that you like, can progressivly overload and that don't mess your joints up. If you then want to get nerdy with force curves within different exercises/ROMs then go for it. Pullup/pulldown for vertical lat stretch, supported row or deficit rows for horizontal lat stretch.... kinda job done really.
Bicep curls; standard barbell for the typical ROM and then cables or preachers or similar for lengthened stretch. Boom.
No one exercise is going to do everything, just overlap them to make sure you get everything covered.
Perfect question but I think I got the answer for you (I am a PT). As you might have seen in yourself and others in the past, when you try to statically stretch your lat, you end up in a position that is not completely overhead but more like 20-30 degrees from it. I know your idea is that "Lats extend the humerus, therefore I will flex it all the way so I can stretch it, same logic with pecs", but the lats insertion points are actually the furthest during 20-30 degrees away from full flexion. Another funny mechanic is that they also have no leverage during full extension.
@@LAGman91 that's also what I think I just want milo's input as in past videos he has said the dumbbell pullover is the best lat exercise
@@HoseinRajabi-l2n can be if you arch so by the time you have 20 or so degrees left for shoulder flexion, gravity acts perpendicular to your arms hence stretch biased.
Eh people are overreacting on all that. I’d rather pay more attention to their length-tension relationship. There’s a lot of factors that come into play for a muscle to be the “prime mover” best to just line up the muscle with the resistance I’d say.
How can this information be transmitted to the bedroom
Does stretch-mediated hypertrophy have a dropoff and if so, is it a logarithmic curve like with standard strength training or is it more of a cliff where once you meet the limits of your joints, there's no more to be gained?
Edit: well shit, it looks like you answered this later in the vid. nvm.
Isn't this just dicing up some word salad? Did anyone actually ever think they could get jacked just by stretching? Every time I've ever heard stretch-mediated hypertrophy used in discussion, it's always been in the context of the lengthened portion of ROM in resistance training. I get that Milo is bringing up other nuance as well, but really, if it's the stretch under tension that increases hypertrophy in lengthened partials over say full ROM, that really seems correctly described as hypertrophy mediated by stretch ^^
They are just giving the pedantic argument that there is some preceding definition of stretch-mediated hypertrophy in the literature and somewhat ignoring the adaptability of language to encompass new ideas.
No. Because if you look at the literature on training at longer muscle lengths the groups training at longer muscle lengths often aren’t even training at lengths long enough to create any stretch whatsoever. It’s often stuff like squatting almost to depth vs squatting well above parallel but neither group is squatting as far down as you can go. So it's completely accurate (and not even in a pedantic way, just in a "if the word stretch means anything at all" way) to say that stretch is not involved whatsoever in the data we see on longer muscle length training being better than shorter muscle length training.
@@blaizenflameIt's actually not pedantic at all. In the literature on longer muscle length training the longer muscle length group often isn't training at a length long enough to generate any actual stretch at all. So both groups are having the same amount of stretch (namely, zero).
Even if you ignore the technical definition of stretch-mediated hypertrophy, you would agree that for it to mean anything at all there would have to be a "stretch" component to the lengthened muscle length training, right? But the data isn't actually studying training with a stretch vs training without a stretch. It's usually comparing training at a longer (non-stretched) average length vs a shorter (non-stretched) average length. So saying stretch isn't involved isn't pedantic even slightly.
Yeah, idk. All these words. Somehow it seems like, while these concepts have different meanings, they are also relatives of each other...? In my opinion it seems like PNF stretching is also another such concept
But what the hell do I know
@JyotiDas-72 what do you call a muscle that is longer than a shortened muscle without using the words long or short? Hmm... stretched comes to mind. Words are adaptable, and it is completely pedantic. Similiar, I am not sure any literature actually defines by synthesis what stretch-mediated hypertrophy or long-muscle length is, so the basis of this argument is just opinion anyway.
I wonder if you'd get any muscle growth from just doing an isometric hold at the lengthened position.
wondering the same lol
You probably would, provided resistance was sufficient!
The people in the stretching and flexibility space say so. The hypertrophy you get is length though. What you’re describing is what they call dynamic stretching. So like going as far into a split as you can and holding yourself there. (Your bodyweight is the load). This lengthens your muscles and makes them stronger in that new range. Literally longitudinal hypertrophy. It’s probably not a massive amount of muscle by bodybuilder standards though.
It’s done to increase flexibility and not be a wet noodle in your new end range positions.
RACK PULL ABOVE THE KNEE
I don't understand the logical conclusion you made around 7 minutes in. If the stretch is more intense (I.e stretchier) you stretch the titin filament more, giving you more passive tension. If stretch mediated hyperteophy is caused by passive tension, then this is still evidence that stretch mediated hypertrophy does occur in humans....
Yeah I just went further in the video, and your logic is making less and less sense. You admit drastic physiological differences in animals (e.g., rapid hyperplasia, experiments involving significantly greater passive tension), but then you sort of assume that these differences aren't enough to compensate for the differences in SMH hypertrophy measurements, and use this as evidence to support your, seemingly, predetermined conclusion that stretch mediated hypertrophy is unimportant in humans. This is not good science.
I think you made an error when you were talking about the growth in the bird muscles.
You first say that the stretched enervated muscle grew by 170% and the unenervated muscle grew by 140%. Makes sense.
Then you say that this means in the enervated muscle, 140% of the increase in muscle weight was caused by stretch-mediated hypertrophy and 30% caused by active contraction. That doesn't make any sense. "140% of the increase in weight is attributable to X" means that "_more than all of the increase is muscle weight_ is attributable to X." That's impossible. 100% means all.
You're confusing the percentage that something grew by with the percentage of that extra weight. Those are two different things.
He's saying that out of the total 170% muscle weight increase, 140% was attributable to stretch mediated hypertrophy, not normalizing the total growth to 100%.
I agree that it sounds clunky to split percentages like that but the intent may have been to focus on the fact that stretch mediated hypertrophy was responsible for the muscle growing by 140% (a lot). Normalizing total growth to 100% can obscure the impact by removing the magnitude of the growth, which is the important part, not the ratio of what is stretch mediated and what is contraction. You would multiply it back to the 170% to see the impact anyways.
42617
good content mate, love your content!
How is this substantially different than the idea of 'controlling the eccentric"?
I have the same question.
Perhaps by allowing spending more TUT in the potential “most important part of the movement” through the highlight in that stretch part of the movement(? I guess doing so would let us get higher in reps/load, thus leading to a better invested intensity
Both groups controlled the eccentric in all of these studies showing differences between full ROM and lengthened partials, so the difference between groups is obviously not related to 'controlling the eccentric' because both groups were doing that.
Eccentric specifically implies time under tension and steady relaxation of your muscles, the latter half of most resistance movements. On the other hand, lengthened partials are essentially half-reps done at the position where the muscles are the most stretched.
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42617 good video
A more intresting question is if this stretch mediated hypertrophy be usefull for advanced lifters, so if the gains slow down for us with traditional training, then having some machine stretch our muscles result in even further hypertrophy?
No. 😑
@@rockon8174 How do you even know?
I tend to agree with him. It's like calling concentric and eccentric training "dynamic contraction-mediated hypertrophy." It's a pretty meaningless term because the two are different things, and you're missing isometric contractions so there's very little you can say specifically about that group.
It's kind of like naming a group for cats, koalas, and snakes. Ok great, but when would you use such a term? You're probably interested in other terms for other groups, like animals, mammals, pets, etc., or referring to them separately.
Hell, why not call eccentrics "stretch-mediated hypertrophy" too? Because it's a meaningless term then -- you'll almost never have a need to refer to the group of eccentrics, lengthened training, and static-stretch-induced hypertrophy: you'll usually either refer to each separately, or refer to a term which also includes concentrics and/or isometrics, which therefore renders the term useless.
Greatest Fitness video I've ever seen with the RP guy? Hell yeah, thank you for the right exercises versus the old school not as effective exercises.
42,617
Excellent content as always. Thanks for keeping it scientific! ❤
I don't know, man, 42,617 liters is a lot of water just to achieve stretch mediated hydration...
Good to know that i can atleast maintain some of my gains by stretching when I'm unable lift. Im guessing stretch mediated hypertrophy is achieved through static stretching but some clarification on this would be appreciated 😄
u said earlier in the vid that higher tension could be a factor on the effectivness of stretching, so could the lengthened partials being done with weights vs just body weight stretches explain the difference in time spent stretching?
Great video. Thank you for the info!! 42,617
Dude, your intro with the sci-fi spaceship intergalaxtic comm theme
followed by you crossed arms (can add some descriptive words of emotions here but wont),
don't go well together.
42617
42617... If this is how you yourself are training, can you share your measurements and results over a month time frame. All these studies reports would mean more if we see actual results on video.
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I'm moving to NYC just so I can be a subject in the study...42,617
cool study but the denervated sounds like a warcrime.
Damn them boys gave chickens some lat gains 😭
Paul Carter is behind you.
42617, great video!
No Milo, they are only all the hype for you 😂😂😂
Great video! Thank you so much.
Just when you think there’s something to be excited about…
This format is great. I suspect this channel will grow a lot.
Great content, and great presentation! Thanks, dr Wolf!
fta
what camera are yall using to record Milo ?
42,617 🙂
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42,617 !
42617!
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Algorithm
How about including loaded stretches🤔 instead of lengthened partials🙄
would the term "eccentric-mediated hypertrophy" be more appropriate to call lengthened partials due to the amount of time the muscle is exposed in this contraction? i just thought it'd make sense since giving more emphasis to the eccentric does lead to more muscle growth. anyways, thank you again for a banger video, Dr. Father Milo! bless up.
I don't think it would be specific enough. One could train with only the shortened half of the eccentric. It would be "eccentric mediated hypertrofy", but shortened partials, instead of lenghtened ones.
Also usually lengthened partials are done with concentric and eccentric, even though eccentric is understood to do most of the hypertrofy, I don't think it is established that if the focus on the lenghthened portion improoves the eccentric stimuli, the concentric one, or both.
@@guiguspi i get the idea of your message, there needs to be more research done though on this phenomenon as to why eccentric action does produce better muscle growth, in the supraphysiological level in that manner. but i do agree with most of what you said. 👊🏽
I mean, it doesn't really have anything to do with the eccentric phase specifically. The amount of eccentrics or even proportion of eccentric:concentric muscle actions being performed is typically similar between full ROM and Lengthened partials for example... so it's even less accurate to call it eccentric-mediated, IMO
@@kaderux I'm so confused. Produce more muscle in the supraphysiological level?
Is it even possible to produce more muscle than the body is capable of producing? Outside of fluids and myostatin inhibitors and other interventions. Just pure, 100% natty muscle protein synthesis, can it be supraphysiological?
Can you do a video on strength training safely for hypermobile people with off and on varying joint pain?
Chris Beardsley and Lift Run Bang both agree that sarcomere addition is only possible in beginner trainees, thoughts?
Did you even watch the video?💀 this exact topic is addressed, and the research says they’re wrong.
can we just workout. do what makes you feel good. just lift til near or close to failure and kick some ass. that's it. too much science and talking going on, not enough working out. pick up a weight and enjoy the gym, this is starting to feel so pen and paper. just workout people. drink your protein and your muscles will grow if you put effort and consistency.
The individuals who consume this type of content are generally going to already be training hard and consistently. This type of content isn't geared towards beginners, it's for those who want to take their own training to the next level or those who are coaches and want to program optimally for their clients.
What you recommend will work best for beginners and intermediate trainees but at some point we want/need to take it up a notch for continued progression. That's who this content is for.
If your objective is to be healthy and have gains, you do not need to dabble in this kind of discussions.
Just like you dont need to discuss high end physics and chemistry to cook a great steak.
Some people do like to discuss theese subjects, though..
Clap clap clap
I only have 30-40 mins to train a day. I want to get the most bang for my buck. This type of content is great for me.
@@gregorycocco9043 If instead of watching this video, you added this length of time to your training.... ... ... .
Very useful information but you guys are so boring, not just this specific guy. You guys should talk to dr Mike and learn how to be funny.
Please no, Mike has somewhat jumped the shark and the incessant tangents unrelated to the actual topic at hand get tiring at this point. He had a way better balance for his content few years ago.
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