Considering how much "wet foot box" is an issue I wonder if would make sense to do a hybrid where you have synthetic fill in the footbox, maybe the hood, and the rest down. Could address the most common problem of a footbox contacting the tent wall and getting damp. One of the things I have done in really damp environments is to zip my rain jacket up and slipping my foot box into it from the bottom. Puts a waterproof sleeve over my feet to protect against contact with the wall of the tent.
@@BackcountryExposure yeah, the hybrid ones I've seen are more a blend so they dont totally lose loft when they get wet, or at least that's the marketing. Pretty sure I learned the rain jacket hack on TH-cam :) but unlike a lot of "hacks" it actually works pretty well.
There are companies that have caught on to your idea specifically Nemo. My Riff down sleeping bag footbox is made with 40D nylon rip stop material and coated with DWR.
Or we re-evaluate our expectations towards practical sizing of a shelter? so much is a bout min-maxing weight and space these days and a lot goes out the window when we do that. I can not lie in any of my UL shelters that are advertised for one person with a 25 inch wide, 3 inch + thcik sleeping pad and a winter-weight sleeping bag/quilt without touching the tent walls in multiple places and in some of them even exposing the bottom of the sleeping pad to the rain/snow.
I think the slower warm up of the down is a good thing. If it is slow to accept the heat it will be slow to lose the heat. Heat transfer goes both ways.
I think you're thinking of heating a cast iron pan, where you would be correct, but insulation works differently. Actually, if it's slow to take up heat that would mean that you'd feel the warming effect much quicker (because your body heat can't escape then). I believe the down didn't have its full loft yet, so it performed a little bit worse than the synthetic one in this case.
I'm old and I am becoming a bit if a gram weenie out of necessity. That being said, I like the idea and security of synthetics. I've had a few damp down quilts on cold multi nights and it scared me.
Cheers mate! Was about to buy an expensive Down sleeping bag, but after watching your video, synthetic will be best for me, because I am often camping in unpredictable locations, unplanned and get wet damp often hiking on the coast. So something that can dry quickly and handle being wet is ideal for me! Thanks buddy!
Yeah I've use my Coleman mummy inside a Coleman regular in my truck topper camper down to -20... when your in humid areas the outside bag freezes during day but inside bag stays dry. I've used my new and first down sleeping bag in truck at 10 and was surprisingly warm. Nemo sonic 0, first actual backpacking trip plan for this weekend.
Me: _watches videos like this to pretend like I'm some sort of sleeping-bag connoisseur_ Also me: _literally too poor to afford anything but synthetic anyway_ 😂 Another great video, Devin! Super informative, while also approachable & staying punchy.
You're not alone.. I watch these videos like I'm gonna climb Mt Rushmore next week while actually considering the most extreme backpacking scenarios, knowing damn well I'm about to go camping in a state park with flat carved out trails🤦🏾♂️🥾🤣
@@TsigolohcysP77 Better National Parks than nothing! I mean, those can get pretty deep + as scrubby as you want to take on, & from the videos I've seen, even a lot of hike-Tubers seem to film videos in them! So don't be ashamed of your capability, friend. 💛 Personally, I'm rehabbing from a complex spinal injury which involves 6 fractures + a cord laceration, as well as, less critically, collapsed discs & a spondylolisthesus (hence the reason I can't afford nice anything, bc I haven't worked in a while), so even with daily treadmill + resistance work, both while wearing my full pack, I've only worked up so far to over a year or so to be reliably up on my best days to manage hike-in+hike-out camping of either a km or so on imperfect terrain e/w or a couple of kms e/w on flat ground. Which would probs seem straight-up embarrassing to others, but it's a bloody long way from the wheelchair I used to be stuck in indefinitely - & still have to use on my worst days! I'll probably never be able to get as far as what you can. 😅. But I'm keeping my eyes on the prize & looking forward to being able to section-hike some proper tracks, one day. One day at a time, my guy; one day at a time - not just for the chronically hampered like me, but for _all_ of us. None of Devin or his peers started long-distance out of the gate! No matter your capability, if you want more, you can build it. And if you're honestly content deep down but more consciously have some Outdoors Imposter Syndrome going on, drop the embarrassment! You're still getting out there, enjoying the beauty of nature, improving what your body is capable of + taking in some fresh air; & while you're looking at what Devin or Justin or Eric or Dixie or Kyle do + feeling like you don't measure up next to them or other long-distance hikers, some total city slickers or even campground sitters who never go more than 100m from their car are looking at your distance in the uncontrolled conditions of the bush + thinking that they'll never achieve that kind of athleticism. Sorry for the wall o'text, it's early morning for me + my Dex are just kicking in, which always makes me tenpirarily super verbose. Anyway; point is, keep it 💯 & take pride in what your body & mind can do, bc you'll always be stronger+faster+better than many Someone Else-es.
Most (but not all) of my backpacking is in the Southeast, specifically Alabama. I’ve used synthetic for over 30 years because of the dampness but about two years ago, I made the switch to two down bags. I love the lightweight aspect but if the conditions are wet or damp and there’s significant condensation, I sometimes with I had one of my synthetic bags. I’m going out this weekend and was already considering taking a much heavier synthetic because conditions in Alabama right now are pretty wet. Nice presentation and thoughts on the differences. 🦑
I only do car camping now with my age so volume and weight isn't an issue. I also get dirty with every outing and prefer my bags clean. When i had a down bag for 10+years, i would baby it, always have a sleeping bag liner and probably only washed it once to preserve the life and not strip the natural oils. With the synthetic, i can wash it after every outing and feel like i have fresh bed ware with every trip.
Also, a trick I have personally discovered; if after manual compression you then put your synthetic sleeping bag into a vacuum sack, & then, you know, _vacuum_ it, it not only reduces that bulk to an impressive degree, but naturally it also makes your most important fabric item waterproof in your pack. I wouldn't suggest for down bags, tho; 1. they don't need it, & 2. it might damage the down.
@@pedroclaro7822 Nah, I'm just kidding; you're right, that _is_ consistently a problem. I've never found I couldn't pack the bag down far enough to make it work in the end, but it's probs not a thing you want to do if you have an ultra- super- hyper- uber-exxy bag you want to baby. But then I imagine you wouldn't have done it in the first place. Either way, may the track rise up to meet you! 💕
@@mysterylovescompany2657 I use the type that you can manually compress; you seal it up and sit on it. There's a one way valve in the bag to let the air out. But I don't do my sleeping, rather, I use it for my camping hammock/tarp/snakeskin. I'm not sure you wouldn't damage the sleeping bag fibers and never get it to loft again.
Washing down repeatedly seems to be fine, whereas synthetics seem to clump up / never dry in their original form. That’s why down is always my favourite (especially around messy kids!) but maybe more modern synthetics are much better?
What pursuades me towards down is an argument I dont hear about as much in these discussions. Longevity. I have seen down quilts that are over 8 years old look just like new after a wash (one of them was only recently washed after 8 years of use. It was kept pretty clean throughout and the loss of loft was there - maybe 5%, max 10% - but apparently not enough to bother the owner). No significant difference in temp rating after washing. It took my synthetic bag exactly one thru-hike of the AT to become almost unusable for anything but summer. The degradation of warmth was significant and even observable throughout the hike - granted I already made the mistake of getting one that is borderline warm enough so I got the full consequence of that transition. I have not just observed this thing in sleeping bags, but also in jackets. Latest by the next winter the synthetic jacket downst feel quite as warm. There is a place for synthetic but I think its more niche than most people argue. I also get the impression on youtube that the "down loses warmth when wet" is kinda overblown, esp. with some of the water-resistant down options. Also I'm not saying you should frequently wash your down.
Thanks for the great video.... I would think saving the weight in other ways would be better like the tent or other gear. For me the best option is a non toxic synthetic bag(something like from Mountain Equipment or RAB). I have owned North Face down bag before and loved it but I think for comfort and sound sleep the newer non toxic eco ones are better unless of course the extra pound weight is really that important.
Down is also regarded as lasting longer and not degrading as much over time with compression and storage and generally. If a bag with down is 10 years old then it should be less degraded than a synthetic of the same age which may have lost heat and retention and loft.. Also as a side sleeper down does create more cold spots with it shifting more at the sharp angles your body is in.
@@Em_Dee_Aitch this can be true for all sleeping bags, they shouldn’t be stored compressed for extended periods of time as the fluff helps insulate the heat
No it's not worth paying more than double and then some, the damp makes down bags get wet much quicker as it seems to attract moisture. Got rid of my down bag. Best bag I have ever found is the synthetic "Snugpack Special Forces 2" temperatures down to -7c. Soft, Warm, roomy and comfortable with a centre zip so can be used as a quilt.
I wonder where Kelty's DriDown and other Hydrophobic treated down products fall in this. Would the treated down act the same as synthetic and not lose its loft and still be light weight and compressible?
Their are some inferior synthetics and superior synthetics. Something to think about when purchasing synthetic bags or jackets! Climashield apex is a great synthetic insulation and so is Thermal Q insulation from companies like mountain hardwear. Thermal Q is a synthetic that acts like down. Their synthetic bag material is very soft too like a down bag would be. Not crap like a cheap walmart bag or the thick square sleeping bags we all used as children. Lol..I personally have come full circle. Started with synthetic semi cheapo bags and slowly went down expensive sleeping bags. I know alot of down is treated to help with moisture buildup. That does help to a certain extent but overtime these treatments default. You can retreat some insulations. But why should you have to after paying soo much.. I had a great synthetic bag the mountain hardwear lamina z-flame used it for years, super warm, soft comfortable, moisture resistant!! But the packability and weight was not the greatest. So i went to a treated down bag. Bought the sea to summit micro 2. The latest and greatest at the time. Lol..Packed extremely small and super light weight dri-down european goose down bla bla.. I hate to even be like that but this bag failed me on numerous ocassions. Rainy trips inside nice tents too, but theirs nothing worse than sleeping in a damp bag night after night ughh and when down gets wet it loses its loft and is horrible!! It could also be the difference between life and death seriously!! I said screw it and went back to another synthetic bag. I couldn't be happier! I'm sure their are some great down bags. I can't speak for them all. Your def better off with a down quilt anyways if you do choose down. But if you live, camp and hike in a more damp environment and can afford room in your pack consider using a quality synthetic bag!! You won't regret it! Hike on!!
Down: doesn't poison the wearer, doesn't hurt the environment, loses warmth when wet, longer to dry, is more expensive, easier to transport, and harder to clean. Synthetic: poisons the wearer, hurts the environment, loses less warmth when wet, quicker to dry, cheaper, slightly harder to transport, easy to clean
A bit off topic, I've been looking at getting a down jacket for warmth. I already own a pretty heavy and quite warm synthetic. Is there any point in me getting a down coat? I don't hike and it will be just for wearing around town. I know that down is pretty bad when wet but how wet can it go before it gets insufficient? Like are we talking a light to medium shower will render the coat useless? I see a lot of people out in rain in say, a mountain warehouse light line in the rain sometimes so just wondering
Great video! Question for you. I’m looking at buying a couple of sleeping bags to borrow out so I can get some of my friends into the backcountry. I don’t want to spend a ton of money but I also want their experience to be enjoyable. Any tips for a budget bag that would fit that purpose?
Good grief the condensation issue with down is so vastly over-stated. The condensation in any tent will never be enough to degrade the loft of a bag enough to matter. Synthetic does dry faster but the difference isn't as great as you'd think. And you have to keep in mind that your body heat will help dry out the down or synthetic insulation over time. The correct answer is both, down for cold weather, synthetic for warm weather both for really cold weather. I base this off of having a stake blow out of the ground leaving my sleep system exposed to direct rain for a period of time while away from camp. And another occasion where my son took a dunk on a water crossing (always use a pack liner). If your condensation is worse than that please talk to a doctor. And before anyone asks it was a 7" ground hog style stake. Just really bad wind and a pitch I'd not used before. Scout camp is a good place to test out stuff like that.
Well done as always. Not sure if this would fit your channel, but I would be interested in knowing your process of getting backcountry or other sponsors to sponsor a video. Did you get a following first? How did you get your start (understandable if those are trade secrets 😄)
Amazing video Devon!!! Wow I am so satisfied with this video! I had the question in my head at the beginning "WHY is down so damn expensive" and wanted to suggest that to you to do a video about it that actually really goes into depth and the knotty gritty of this, of really why does down ends up costing so much and what is the process that makes it so? But I see you have delved into that beautifully and explained quite a lot and wonderfully about the treatment (i haven't actually seen down tech explained so so good! Amazing footage! Very impressed!!) Which answered most of my questions! I would then like to ask, WHY does camping gear cost so damn much?? Like how does it get to cost us $/£400+ for essentially, such a simple product!!?? It really blows my mind that companies have the audacity to charge insane amount of money for a SLEEPING bag!! Christ!! All it is is some down which I doubt costs so much in the manufacturing process, and some fabrics!! It really shouldn't cost that much! Also the synthetic!! It really pissws me off when they charge such astronomical amount when really $/£200 for such down bag, should really cover all the costs and give a nice profit no!!? Would love your thoughts! And thank you so much for this wonderful video!!!
Thank you. I think something forgotten is some of the premium cost of gear goes into the design of the product. Generic designs get generic prices. Innovative designs that push performance come with a higher price tag.
@@BackcountryExposure oh yeah I completely understand that! But that's the company's "line" isn't it? The research and design of a product hence every product must cost hundreds of £! It's a market tool that allows them to boast it up to ridiculous prices! Wouldn't you agree? Because I would understand with all that info of treatment, cost and research, for it to cost like £200 I think ok! That's a fair premium price! And fir a synthetic product to cost like £100! But it's double that! And that's what really frustrates me with these companies! They really go above and beyond to boast the prices!!
Simply camping gear can be had for pretty cheaply. It's _hiking_ gear that costs a fortune, because items require more technical design to be as light as possible so that you can haul it all.
I love both, the worse issue with my down, Bishop pass 15 is waking up from a cozy sleep choking on a Fucking feather and it has happened more than thrice. Synthetic not going to happen but they make for great van camping bags both my Colemans (yup Colemans 10 plus years old gear heads ) and my other Big5 cozy cheap bag in 10 degrees at Lone Pine last week.) worked great. Btw , just purchased a new Trekology Aluft Deluxe on ebay for 17 bucks brand new! Rei almost 75 .. Great for long flights too!
synthetic full stop end of story. unless youre doing fluff camping nowhere serious with zero moisture. otherwise down will get you hypothermic and dead real quick
Thanks for the video. You haven't mentioned one of the most important advantages of getting a synthetic bag. It's vegan, which means no animal parts have been used to produce it.
Considering how much "wet foot box" is an issue I wonder if would make sense to do a hybrid where you have synthetic fill in the footbox, maybe the hood, and the rest down. Could address the most common problem of a footbox contacting the tent wall and getting damp. One of the things I have done in really damp environments is to zip my rain jacket up and slipping my foot box into it from the bottom. Puts a waterproof sleeve over my feet to protect against contact with the wall of the tent.
Dude that is a smart hack! I know there are some bags that are hybrid, but not sure about the head and foot ends being dedicated.
@@BackcountryExposure yeah, the hybrid ones I've seen are more a blend so they dont totally lose loft when they get wet, or at least that's the marketing.
Pretty sure I learned the rain jacket hack on TH-cam :) but unlike a lot of "hacks" it actually works pretty well.
That's an amazing hack bro!
There are companies that have caught on to your idea specifically Nemo. My Riff down sleeping bag footbox is made with 40D nylon rip stop material and coated with DWR.
Or we re-evaluate our expectations towards practical sizing of a shelter? so much is a bout min-maxing weight and space these days and a lot goes out the window when we do that. I can not lie in any of my UL shelters that are advertised for one person with a 25 inch wide, 3 inch + thcik sleeping pad and a winter-weight sleeping bag/quilt without touching the tent walls in multiple places and in some of them even exposing the bottom of the sleeping pad to the rain/snow.
I think the slower warm up of the down is a good thing. If it is slow to accept the heat it will be slow to lose the heat. Heat transfer goes both ways.
Science!
...or it's trapping more heat
I think you're thinking of heating a cast iron pan, where you would be correct, but insulation works differently. Actually, if it's slow to take up heat that would mean that you'd feel the warming effect much quicker (because your body heat can't escape then). I believe the down didn't have its full loft yet, so it performed a little bit worse than the synthetic one in this case.
I'm old and I am becoming a bit if a gram weenie out of necessity. That being said, I like the idea and security of synthetics. I've had a few damp down quilts on cold multi nights and it scared me.
Cheers mate! Was about to buy an expensive Down sleeping bag, but after watching your video, synthetic will be best for me, because I am often camping in unpredictable locations, unplanned and get wet damp often hiking on the coast. So something that can dry quickly and handle being wet is ideal for me! Thanks buddy!
Go eco or non toxic bag....synthetic. You won't want anything else again.
They’re really just not worth it
Great comparison! I love my down gear! I have a few synthetics but they just never get used.
Yeah I've use my Coleman mummy inside a Coleman regular in my truck topper camper down to -20... when your in humid areas the outside bag freezes during day but inside bag stays dry. I've used my new and first down sleeping bag in truck at 10 and was surprisingly warm. Nemo sonic 0, first actual backpacking trip plan for this weekend.
first time viewer. thanks for breaking it down so well. you helped me make my choice.
Me: _watches videos like this to pretend like I'm some sort of sleeping-bag connoisseur_
Also me: _literally too poor to afford anything but synthetic anyway_ 😂
Another great video, Devin! Super informative, while also approachable & staying punchy.
You're not alone.. I watch these videos like I'm gonna climb Mt Rushmore next week while actually considering the most extreme backpacking scenarios, knowing damn well I'm about to go camping in a state park with flat carved out trails🤦🏾♂️🥾🤣
@@TsigolohcysP77 Better National Parks than nothing! I mean, those can get pretty deep + as scrubby as you want to take on, & from the videos I've seen, even a lot of hike-Tubers seem to film videos in them! So don't be ashamed of your capability, friend. 💛
Personally, I'm rehabbing from a complex spinal injury which involves 6 fractures + a cord laceration, as well as, less critically, collapsed discs & a spondylolisthesus (hence the reason I can't afford nice anything, bc I haven't worked in a while), so even with daily treadmill + resistance work, both while wearing my full pack, I've only worked up so far to over a year or so to be reliably up on my best days to manage hike-in+hike-out camping of either a km or so on imperfect terrain e/w or a couple of kms e/w on flat ground. Which would probs seem straight-up embarrassing to others, but it's a bloody long way from the wheelchair I used to be stuck in indefinitely - & still have to use on my worst days! I'll probably never be able to get as far as what you can. 😅.
But I'm keeping my eyes on the prize & looking forward to being able to section-hike some proper tracks, one day.
One day at a time, my guy; one day at a time - not just for the chronically hampered like me, but for _all_ of us. None of Devin or his peers started long-distance out of the gate! No matter your capability, if you want more, you can build it.
And if you're honestly content deep down but more consciously have some Outdoors Imposter Syndrome going on, drop the embarrassment!
You're still getting out there, enjoying the beauty of nature, improving what your body is capable of + taking in some fresh air; & while you're looking at what Devin or Justin or Eric or Dixie or Kyle do + feeling like you don't measure up next to them or other long-distance hikers, some total city slickers or even campground sitters who never go more than 100m from their car are looking at your distance in the uncontrolled conditions of the bush + thinking that they'll never achieve that kind of athleticism.
Sorry for the wall o'text, it's early morning for me + my Dex are just kicking in, which always makes me tenpirarily super verbose. Anyway; point is, keep it 💯 & take pride in what your body & mind can do, bc you'll always be stronger+faster+better than many Someone Else-es.
😂😂😂😂 pretty funny yes I’m broke. I live like a homeless person in $2000 camping equipment.
Most (but not all) of my backpacking is in the Southeast, specifically Alabama. I’ve used synthetic for over 30 years because of the dampness but about two years ago, I made the switch to two down bags. I love the lightweight aspect but if the conditions are wet or damp and there’s significant condensation, I sometimes with I had one of my synthetic bags. I’m going out this weekend and was already considering taking a much heavier synthetic because conditions in Alabama right now are pretty wet. Nice presentation and thoughts on the differences. 🦑
Thanks for sharing!
I only do car camping now with my age so volume and weight isn't an issue. I also get dirty with every outing and prefer my bags clean. When i had a down bag for 10+years, i would baby it, always have a sleeping bag liner and probably only washed it once to preserve the life and not strip the natural oils. With the synthetic, i can wash it after every outing and feel like i have fresh bed ware with every trip.
Also, a trick I have personally discovered; if after manual compression you then put your synthetic sleeping bag into a vacuum sack, & then, you know, _vacuum_ it, it not only reduces that bulk to an impressive degree, but naturally it also makes your most important fabric item waterproof in your pack. I wouldn't suggest for down bags, tho; 1. they don't need it, & 2. it might damage the down.
but that only works for one time uses, like one nighters. and it'll be bulkier when returning
@@pedroclaro7822 Skill issue
@@pedroclaro7822 Nah, I'm just kidding; you're right, that _is_ consistently a problem. I've never found I couldn't pack the bag down far enough to make it work in the end, but it's probs not a thing you want to do if you have an ultra- super- hyper- uber-exxy bag you want to baby. But then I imagine you wouldn't have done it in the first place.
Either way, may the track rise up to meet you! 💕
@@mysterylovescompany2657 I use the type that you can manually compress; you seal it up and sit on it. There's a one way valve in the bag to let the air out. But I don't do my sleeping, rather, I use it for my camping hammock/tarp/snakeskin. I'm not sure you wouldn't damage the sleeping bag fibers and never get it to loft again.
I’ll be sure to pack my vacuum on my back pack trip
Washing down repeatedly seems to be fine, whereas synthetics seem to clump up / never dry in their original form. That’s why down is always my favourite (especially around messy kids!) but maybe more modern synthetics are much better?
Great information. Thanks for the content. Very helpful to those in search of a sleeping bag. Have a great day.
That's why we buy both, haha always justify more gear!!😁✌️💚
For me it's about how much volume it takes up. I will save for the best price to volume ratio
What pursuades me towards down is an argument I dont hear about as much in these discussions. Longevity. I have seen down quilts that are over 8 years old look just like new after a wash (one of them was only recently washed after 8 years of use. It was kept pretty clean throughout and the loss of loft was there - maybe 5%, max 10% - but apparently not enough to bother the owner). No significant difference in temp rating after washing.
It took my synthetic bag exactly one thru-hike of the AT to become almost unusable for anything but summer. The degradation of warmth was significant and even observable throughout the hike - granted I already made the mistake of getting one that is borderline warm enough so I got the full consequence of that transition.
I have not just observed this thing in sleeping bags, but also in jackets. Latest by the next winter the synthetic jacket downst feel quite as warm.
There is a place for synthetic but I think its more niche than most people argue. I also get the impression on youtube that the "down loses warmth when wet" is kinda overblown, esp. with some of the water-resistant down options.
Also I'm not saying you should frequently wash your down.
Two cold weather designations by the US Army
Cold Wet = Synthetic
Cold Dry = Down
Then how come geese don’t freeze to death
@@Roberta_Espositogeese produce oils from their shin and preen to spread the oil over the feathers so it repells water.
Thanks for the great video.... I would think saving the weight in other ways would be better like the tent or other gear. For me the best option is a non toxic synthetic bag(something like from Mountain Equipment or RAB). I have owned North Face down bag before and loved it but I think for comfort and sound sleep the newer non toxic eco ones are better unless of course the extra pound weight is really that important.
How long could I leave a down quilt at full compression and still git the same effective loft and warmth?
Down is also regarded as lasting longer and not degrading as much over time with compression and storage and generally. If a bag with down is 10 years old then it should be less degraded than a synthetic of the same age which may have lost heat and retention and loft.. Also as a side sleeper down does create more cold spots with it shifting more at the sharp angles your body is in.
Is this a “thing”??? Is this why I froze my ass off in my 11+ year old 20 degree synthetic bag when it was in the upper 40s this year???
@@Em_Dee_Aitch this can be true for all sleeping bags, they shouldn’t be stored compressed for extended periods of time as the fluff helps insulate the heat
What about the down getting wet against the condensation inside the tent? Will that make it so you can’t use it the next day?
Also for synthetic I believe polyester is better as cotton absorbs water and looses efficiency where are polyester doesnt
How is cotton synthetic? 🤔
What is the gsm of synthetic bag for 20rated? is it hollow fiber inside?or padded fiber
Maybe the down bag isn't as resistant to heat loss due to wind, in that case the synthetic is the better choice for cowboy camping
That could be true. A lot of science behind ideas like that.
No it's not worth paying more than double and then some, the damp makes down bags get wet much quicker as it seems to attract moisture. Got rid of my down bag. Best bag I have ever found is the synthetic "Snugpack Special Forces 2" temperatures down to -7c. Soft, Warm, roomy and comfortable with a centre zip so can be used as a quilt.
I wonder where Kelty's DriDown and other Hydrophobic treated down products fall in this. Would the treated down act the same as synthetic and not lose its loft and still be light weight and compressible?
Their are some inferior synthetics and superior synthetics. Something to think about when purchasing synthetic bags or jackets! Climashield apex is a great synthetic insulation and so is Thermal Q insulation from companies like mountain hardwear. Thermal Q is a synthetic that acts like down. Their synthetic bag material is very soft too like a down bag would be. Not crap like a cheap walmart bag or the thick square sleeping bags we all used as children. Lol..I personally have come full circle. Started with synthetic semi cheapo bags and slowly went down expensive sleeping bags. I know alot of down is treated to help with moisture buildup. That does help to a certain extent but overtime these treatments default. You can retreat some insulations. But why should you have to after paying soo much.. I had a great synthetic bag the mountain hardwear lamina z-flame used it for years, super warm, soft comfortable, moisture resistant!! But the packability and weight was not the greatest. So i went to a treated down bag. Bought the sea to summit micro 2. The latest and greatest at the time. Lol..Packed extremely small and super light weight dri-down european goose down bla bla.. I hate to even be like that but this bag failed me on numerous ocassions. Rainy trips inside nice tents too, but theirs nothing worse than sleeping in a damp bag night after night ughh and when down gets wet it loses its loft and is horrible!! It could also be the difference between life and death seriously!! I said screw it and went back to another synthetic bag. I couldn't be happier! I'm sure their are some great down bags. I can't speak for them all. Your def better off with a down quilt anyways if you do choose down. But if you live, camp and hike in a more damp environment and can afford room in your pack consider using a quality synthetic bag!! You won't regret it! Hike on!!
Is that the decathlon synthetic jacket?
Yes it is. Love it!
Down: doesn't poison the wearer, doesn't hurt the environment, loses warmth when wet, longer to dry, is more expensive, easier to transport, and harder to clean.
Synthetic: poisons the wearer, hurts the environment, loses less warmth when wet, quicker to dry, cheaper, slightly harder to transport, easy to clean
I’ll be sure to pack it in my 600 hp muscle car getting 7 miles to the gallon. Thanks for the input. Have a great day.
@@Roberta_Esposito You forgot: "Eating McDonalds in the old non-biodegradable styrofoam containers." :)
A bit off topic, I've been looking at getting a down jacket for warmth. I already own a pretty heavy and quite warm synthetic. Is there any point in me getting a down coat? I don't hike and it will be just for wearing around town. I know that down is pretty bad when wet but how wet can it go before it gets insufficient? Like are we talking a light to medium shower will render the coat useless? I see a lot of people out in rain in say, a mountain warehouse light line in the rain sometimes so just wondering
I was constantly cold in synthetic coats and only felt warm in down. 100% worth it.
Too much helpful.. thx
Great video! Question for you. I’m looking at buying a couple of sleeping bags to borrow out so I can get some of my friends into the backcountry. I don’t want to spend a ton of money but I also want their experience to be enjoyable. Any tips for a budget bag that would fit that purpose?
Go to Big5! save your receipts, if the zips have issues return within 30 days..
Good tip is to make them buy their own gear!
Good grief the condensation issue with down is so vastly over-stated. The condensation in any tent will never be enough to degrade the loft of a bag enough to matter. Synthetic does dry faster but the difference isn't as great as you'd think. And you have to keep in mind that your body heat will help dry out the down or synthetic insulation over time.
The correct answer is both, down for cold weather, synthetic for warm weather both for really cold weather.
I base this off of having a stake blow out of the ground leaving my sleep system exposed to direct rain for a period of time while away from camp. And another occasion where my son took a dunk on a water crossing (always use a pack liner). If your condensation is worse than that please talk to a doctor.
And before anyone asks it was a 7" ground hog style stake. Just really bad wind and a pitch I'd not used before. Scout camp is a good place to test out stuff like that.
Well done as always. Not sure if this would fit your channel, but I would be interested in knowing your process of getting backcountry or other sponsors to sponsor a video. Did you get a following first? How did you get your start (understandable if those are trade secrets 😄)
Thanks.
There are a lot of videos about this topic on TH-cam. It wouldn’t be a topic that would work well for my channel unfortunately.
Amazing video Devon!!! Wow I am so satisfied with this video!
I had the question in my head at the beginning "WHY is down so damn expensive" and wanted to suggest that to you to do a video about it that actually really goes into depth and the knotty gritty of this, of really why does down ends up costing so much and what is the process that makes it so?
But I see you have delved into that beautifully and explained quite a lot and wonderfully about the treatment (i haven't actually seen down tech explained so so good! Amazing footage! Very impressed!!) Which answered most of my questions!
I would then like to ask, WHY does camping gear cost so damn much?? Like how does it get to cost us $/£400+ for essentially, such a simple product!!?? It really blows my mind that companies have the audacity to charge insane amount of money for a SLEEPING bag!! Christ!! All it is is some down which I doubt costs so much in the manufacturing process, and some fabrics!! It really shouldn't cost that much! Also the synthetic!!
It really pissws me off when they charge such astronomical amount when really $/£200 for such down bag, should really cover all the costs and give a nice profit no!!?
Would love your thoughts! And thank you so much for this wonderful video!!!
Thank you. I think something forgotten is some of the premium cost of gear goes into the design of the product. Generic designs get generic prices. Innovative designs that push performance come with a higher price tag.
@@BackcountryExposure oh yeah I completely understand that!
But that's the company's "line" isn't it? The research and design of a product hence every product must cost hundreds of £! It's a market tool that allows them to boast it up to ridiculous prices! Wouldn't you agree?
Because I would understand with all that info of treatment, cost and research, for it to cost like £200 I think ok!
That's a fair premium price! And fir a synthetic product to cost like £100! But it's double that!
And that's what really frustrates me with these companies! They really go above and beyond to boast the prices!!
Simply camping gear can be had for pretty cheaply. It's _hiking_ gear that costs a fortune, because items require more technical design to be as light as possible so that you can haul it all.
In a nutshell..I'm allergic to down and therefore I'm screwed.
The decision seems black and white for you!
Good info, but darn there is a LOT of repetition in this video. You said the same thing with different words so many times.
I love both, the worse issue with my down, Bishop pass 15 is waking up from a cozy sleep choking on a Fucking feather and it has happened more than thrice. Synthetic not going to happen but they make for great van camping bags both my Colemans (yup Colemans 10 plus years old gear heads ) and my other Big5 cozy cheap bag in 10 degrees at Lone Pine last week.) worked great. Btw , just purchased a new Trekology Aluft Deluxe on ebay for 17 bucks brand new! Rei almost 75 .. Great for long flights too!
synthetic full stop end of story. unless youre doing fluff camping nowhere serious with zero moisture. otherwise down will get you hypothermic and dead real quick
Thanks for the video. You haven't mentioned one of the most important advantages of getting a synthetic bag. It's vegan, which means no animal parts have been used to produce it.
1000% agree!!! I was getting ready to leave that as a comment!
Yep...are you guys joking or serious?
I'm getting a down bag specifically because it uses animal parts
@Rocco Esposito i wear wool socks, eat bacon wrapped fried chicken, in my full down sleeping bag!
@@nicholasmapes respect, brother!!
Get rid of both and get a western mountaineering bag.
Ha ha!
Synthetic is totally fine no real reason to pay so much for down.
wash wash down wet wet cold
Synthetic whats your Problem?
Down all the way.