I have a theory that Malenia constantly repeats that she is the Blade of Miquella so she herself doesn’t forget. I can’t imagine the scarlet rot would eat away at her flesh but leave her brain alone.
Gowry mentions the Rot does affect memory. Millicent apparently had forgotten all but her painful existence as a vector of the Rot until you help her. Once you do, at Gowry's prompting, she begins to slowly recover her memories. So you are completely correct in thinking this is why Malenia would repeat that phrase.
5:30 one of the coolest things about scarlet rot is that you can use it to infect the undead like the Tibia Mariner. Imagine a magical disease so potent that it can even assail an incorporeal ghost, a divine virus that withers away not only the body but also the very soul.
It actually eats everything including your bones and can even eat steel and iron the tibia mariners are not ghosts actually they are just skeletons like the undead
i think the most touching thing about miquella and melania is that both of them have dedicated their lives to helping the other. miquella founded unalloyed gold just to help his sister and melania dedicated her life to the sword to become the physical presence that miquella couldn’t be. it kind of reminds me of that old christmas story where a husband sells his watch to get his wife a fancy hair brush while his wife sells her hair to get her husband some watch thing
@@soap9277 it's called "the gift of the magi". I don't really like Christmas, both the religious and consumerist aspects really put me off, but that story really stands out to me as what the holiday should truly be about.
The gift from the wife was a new band for the watch in a lot of the tellings I've heard. Pretty sure I've heard it told with a new chain, suggesting a pocketwatch instead,
@@kylegonewild If it's an older story, yeah, the original version would definitely be talking about a chain - pocket watches go back a LOT longer than wristwatches. (1510 vs 1810, according to a quick google, and even then it took until WWI for the wristwatch to become popular (pocket watches being rather inconvenient in the intensity of trench warfare) ...and it took even later developments like the solid state electronics in the 1980s that make the modern quartz wristwatch what it is today. Or...was back in the 90s before we started using our phones as pocketwatches, I guess.
I like the theory that Malenia declares who she is and that’s she’s never been defeated because she’s trying her best to remember because of the rot, but I also like to think she may not even be referring to combat, but the struggle to keep the Scarlett rot contained. Trying to convince herself that she will never slip up and release the rot, even though it’s already too late.
@@TifffanyTaylorTo be fair she only bloomed the once in Caelid. The OTHER rot area was a completely different incarnation of the rot god. Who was put down by the flowing blade warrior.
@Starlitsoul0359 but the haligtree has the waterfall, & rivers of rot. So maybe I'll let the lake thing slide. She's still being charged with possession of rot, intent to distribute rot (felony). Illegal smuggling of rot across borders (caelid). It's looking rough, maybe she gets a good lawyer in the dlc 🤣
@@TifffanyTaylor Well, the haligtree is definitely a second bloom on Malenia, but regardless. The one in Caelid WAS intentional, so yeah. She’s tried and failed. With effectively an eternal life to live it was unfortunately just about inevitable. …. Also. Sorry to say. But she ain’t getting a lawyer. This is a FROMSOFT game. Nobody gets happy endings. Just… Endings. If you’re lucky. Which, a neutral nonclosure is kinda the BEST outcome compared to some other fates…
@@Starlitsoul0359 😅 yea no happy endings is a real thing. Millicent quest had my feelings hurt all over again the other day. If we live long enough to see the elden ring dlc that'll be the good ending for us.
Seems like one of the biggest items with lore on the Lake was missed - the map for it. "It is said that the divine essence of an outer god is sealed away in this land", so apparently Outer God of Rot is located directly below/in/whatever the lake, which explains it being in such advanced state of rotting
Was just talking to my friend about how malenia cant see anymore, and our footsteps in the water is how she knows where we are, and explains why her swings are so long and cover a lot of area.
@@Drawnartist to us it explains the waterfowl too. She doesnt know exactly where you are, so a bunch of attacks in your general direction should be enough to hit you. Also, she almost never lands the grab.
@@jankfoot88 she doesn’t land the grab because we dodge it lmao, because dodging is the main mechanic in all souls games, not some headcannon lmao. She was able to fight Radahn to a standstill without any water to hear, and she did so while blind, a triple amputee, and super poisoned. It’s clear her power goes beyond just eye sight. It’s stated she trained under a blind swords man who originally helped seal the original god of rot. The blind swordsman who trained Malenia is who the “warrior” starting class is modeled after. There are many descriptions that show this. Her swings cover a wide area because she has a long ass sword, and because she’s huge, she’s tall af, so she just has a longer reach.
I love the fact that you retract statements and goes on to think differently than in previous videos, it really shows that you are well researched and that you are also learning with the rest of us, very humble.
@@SmoughTown random, but definitely wanna throw in my appreciation for/of SmoMan changing his mind on the bloom here. (Apologies @Raymander for hijacking your post with hopes Smoman might spot this as he commented before) I wanted to expand that the simple way that comment went down illustrated qualities very lacking in a lot of channels.... and real life. 1.Willingness to change his mind upon continued research. 2.Thoughtfulness to apologize and clrify to the audience. all together it shows most 3.Accountability, saying it happened, while also making the important distinction that its OK That it happens to him or anyone, but being a content creator hes sticking his neck out doing all of that. Its terrible that whats really a small blurb says so much bout this chnnel as well s what you find too often everywhere else.. Maybe being new or just learning or a good person has upsides as long as he isnt crucified like Marika for "flip-flopping"
@@Sluggadome_Rotunda_Bernardson he's neither "constantly" nor "blatantly" wrong. Changing your opinion on something because you gained new information/perspective is what people with intelligence do.
One interesting thing I found when playing then double checked in the voice lines is that Iji can make weapons that don't succumb to the scarlet rot. And this is mentioned by Jerren. They are always blunt as stone but never fall to the rot. I'll put in the full quote. "Well, I haven't heard that name in an age. Then you must serve Princess Ranni? The next time you speak to Iji, tell him this: The festival of Radahn will surely set Ranni's fate into motion. By the by... Is that old fool still hammering out weapons? His enormous frame, cramped in that little place... Bit of a haughty sort. Strange fella, when I knew him. And funny thing, his swords were all blunt as stone. But not one of them decayed when faced with the scarlet rot..."
Hass to be dlc, imagine a new special type of stone only found in dlc areas that grant special strengths and immunity, id assume new weapons could be brought that use this type of stone
I wonder if the stone mentioned is the somber smithing stone - since this is the main item Iji sells. If so, would this imply that somber smithing stones prevent rot? That would make me even more curious as to the true origin of somber smithing stones - ie what they're made of.
blunt as stone lol. i think hes kinda a reference to demon souls baldwin and ed i think their names were. twin blacksmiths. they made dragon bone smasher i think and thats what is said about that weapon 😂 more of a slab than a sword.
finally, finally someone who noticed that malenia only bloomed twice! i was growing sick and tired of everyone acting like her blooming three times was a foregone conclusion. excellent work!
@@SmoughTown I mean we see the trumpet dudes at the tree. Perhaps they are to hail a god of rot rather than a twink tree dude who loves 24k gold and getting kidnapped
I could see it either way, but the inner haligtree is covered with the same looking withered branches at the heart of aeonia, which are there before the bloom in our fight.
@@dakotaanderson7906 I think the explanation for that is the scarlet Aeonia before the boss room. You pickup the armor set that Millicent wears next to it which suggestes that another one of millicent's siblings bloomed there rather than Malenia
I hope that the DLC furthers Miquella & Malenias stories. I think it'd be cool if we actually got to speak with Miquella over at Mohgs place and we help him perfect his Unalloyed Gold in order to purge the Outer Gods and bring an Age of the Unalloyed at the Haligtree instead of the Erdtree
God I hope we get an expansion where we can learn more about Miquella, he's my favorite demigod simply because he was like "Fuck it, I'll make my own Erdtree"
I’m counting on that as DLC. Although I’m not sure it would go over well, waking up to a world where your home is in ruins and your twin is dead. Sounds like we’ll find out why he’s the “most dangerous Empyrean” of course I could be very wrong!
@@ClaudioTheCrowing109 I don't think that when Malenia calls Miquella the most fierce Empyrean, she's talking about his ability to kill someone, but is instead referring to his genius and cunning.
I believe you can even see unalloyed gold like, grafted onto her flesh in places. If you've seen any close-ups on her character model, you can spy these crosshatched patches on her body that are the same hue as the prosthetics she wears.
The most tragic part of Malenia's story is that she's been battling the curse of rot since birth and never knew relief from it. In every battle, It was always a inner fight against the rot and against her opponents. Despite this she still managed to become an absolute god at combat without ever giving in to the rot. The only time she willingly used it was to overcome Radahn who was her most formidable opponent. And since she hated the rot, it is important to consider what was so necessary to her in the fight that she allowed the rot to take control and let go of her pride. I personally don't believe she was there for great runes because she had no reason to spare godrick. She spared him out of mercy. She was there specifically for Radahn, most likely because he would have been the biggest threat to miquella's rule over the haligtree. Also I don't think Malenia really intended to destroy caelid considering it was her first bloom and that she had been holding the rot back for a long time. Sudden release of energy ended up covering all of caelid. Pretty tragic if you think about it, she gave up on her honor and dignity to secure victory for Miquella only for Mohg to abduct him. I really hope we get to see more of the twin prodigies in a future dlc considering Malenia's bloomed only twice.
I've recently heard the theory that Malenia might have gone to Caelid with the intention of finding Miquella, since Mohgwyn Palace is directly below the Aeonia Swamp. This would imply that Miquella was abducted in the early stages of the Shattering, of course, and that Malenia could "sense" his twin's presence without knowing the exact spot. I have my doubts, but why Malenia went south and why she sounds so unconcerned with Miquella's fate are two Great mysteries I can't yet wrap my head around.
@@Pizzifrizzo It could be that she was looking for miquella however I don't think it is likely mainly because Mohg really wouldn't come to the Haligtree had Malenia been there. Also, Malenia marched with cleanrot army and some forces allied with Miquella such as Commander O'Neil and banished knights. This makes me believe they were likely under Miquella's orders to eliminate Radahn. I mean why would Malenia stop by Stormveil Castle to teach godrick a lesson if she was in a desperate search for her brother.
@@Lithaleon yeah, I had never thought of that, but it makes a lot of sense. Also, in the video he mentioned that the scarlet aeonia spell says that she only bloomed twice, right? So that means the one in the side room cannot be her, would be my guess.
Thx for this. The demigod family tree is so confusing, so it helps to know that all rot-born creatures that occurred following the battle of Aeonia are in fact the children of Malenia, of which included the pests, the sisters, etc
This really sheds context on the naming of "Waterfowl" dance. By name, reflecting her flowing water combat style, but also the proverbial "wings" of her prowess. In other words, a winged bird of the water: waterfowl.
@@PurriahOh my god! I didnt even know that! English is not my first language Oh my god it sounds so mutch better now! I always thought the moves name was literally something like dirty water dance 😂😂😂 Water bird dance sounds so much better
I think there's some symbolic connection between the themes of stagnation leading to rot and Malenia being chosen as the vessel. She is the result of self-cest, an attempt by Marika/Radagon to keep the Golden Order for all eternity - leading the world into a state of stagnation. Maybe this was why the rot god was able to take hold of her.
Interesting idea about Malenia's lifesteal ablility being a kind of manifestation of her courage. I saw it a little differently though: In the upper worshiper's woods where you fight the the Regal Ancestor Spirit, the Ancestral followers get this blue buff. What this buff actually does is give the Followers a lifesteal ability, just like Malenia's. I feel like this suggests that the lifesteal ability could be something that both Malenia and the Followers specifically learned from Siofra/The Blue Dancer. Thematically it makes sense that Siofra would provide a healing ability, as it's kind of the antithesis of Rot and decay.
can you send a link to where you got that Siofra is .... a person at all. i can only find that its the name of the river , i dont see anything on google either. id love to know where you got that the blue dancers name was siofra , because the location of that river is essential to raya lucaria , further proving that miquella and rennala likely worked very close with one another
@@aristobrat4987 I think he might have meant the location... And might have confused it with Ainsel, where the Blind Swordsman-not to be confused with the "Blue Dancer," the "fairy" that gave him his Flowing Curved Sword-is confirmed to have sealed away the outer god of Rot.
Another great video Fellow Tarnished! Also, you forgot to mention that the description of the Unalloyed Gold Needle changes when you receive it from Millicent’s corpse. It now contains Millicent’s dew - her essence containing Malenia’s sense of self and dignity. When you return the the UGN to the flower after the boss fight, it gives you Miquella’s needle and Ancient Smith Dragon Stone - a sort of trade . I believe this is Malenia inside the flower recuperating giving you the needle and Ancient Smith Dragon Stone as a form of gratitude for returning the UGN and giving you hints of removing a god’s influence and ways of killing of a god. (Almost like supporting us in becoming the Elden lord).
Never thought of it that way. I’ve kinda wondered if she didn’t want to become elden lord and just wanted to find Miquella. I think she knew who we are and at her death she truly recognizes us
@@maleniabladeofmiquella3758 Miquella and Malenia were never interested in becoming Elden Lords. They abandoned the golden order long ago. That is why Miquella wanted to establish his order of Unalloyed Gold and grow his own tree i.e The Haligtree to cure his sister of the rot and in turn Malenia became his blade.
@@pushpitkumar99 I agree with you and it sucks that we have to take her down. She’s probably my favorite character in any game/movie. I hope we see more of her, not as a fight but as an NPC with some sort of ending.
@@maleniabladeofmiquella3758 One can hope we get to see the twins again in a future dlc. It truly sucks because the twins would have likely won the shattering since malenia took Radahn out of the picture and if it wasn't for Mohg abducting miquella.
Greetings. Fighting a giant Scarlet Rot avatar in the form of a scorpion would've been absolutely dope. Do a video on the Frenzied Flame or Godwyn next!
That the Outer God of Rot had a scorpion form can also link interestingly to the Scorpion Charms. "Patterned on a scorpion freshly shed of its exoskeleton," also giving some form of continuous shedding imagery along with that of the rot/butterflies/rebirth.
Also, the one person you could really call an assassin (the people who would use the wcorpion charms) that we fight in the game is Rileigh the Idle, a confessor using scarlet rot bolts and the scorpion's stinger so a connection between assassins and rot? could just be because of how good it is at killing people but who knows
There’s also a scorpion shield, though I’m not sure it adds much info. “A standard medium-sized metal shield. Highly reputed for its solid build and reliability. Emblazoned with a yellow scorpion, a warning of surprise attacks and sudden strikes.”
I've been listening to alot of soulsbourne lore channels for years and years now and I gotta say your eldenring lore videos are easily the best of the ER lore channels
Great video, man! Very interesting and in-depth I think one very interesting thing to consider is WHICH creatures seem to grow larger and stronger in the places infected by the rot. Insects, crows, wild dogs. All scavengers who eat found corpses, just like the overgrown mushrooms themselves It seems like maybe when you've become infected with Scarlet Rot, a way to keep from withering away, and to grow stronger even instead, is consuming the bodies of others who have died from rot. Which is a rule that could maybe apply to Radahn as well?
Id think it would make sense it is a survivorship bias- that the only the strong can resist the rot, and the small dogs and crows don't exist because they'd succumb to it.
I don’t think that the scorpion was a physical manifestation of the outer god of rot, but instead was like an apostle chosen to carry out its will and help maintain influence on the world. Maybe like an empyrean or how the game likes to use the word scion. Maybe the outer gods can’t have physical forms and are instead thought of as the concept they represent, so they have to choose other beings to have a link to the world. And then Malenia was the next one chosen.
I've seen this argued before, however after research I do not believe outer gods are just concepts. We know they do have bodies since mohg's trident is capable of wounding the formless mother, and her blood flows from it. As well as the fingerslayer dagger we give ranni being able to harm both fingers, vassals, and outer gods. The outer gods clearly have wills, the formless mother wanting a wound and communing with those who have special blood or want her power. The greater will directly speaks with fingers and give commands, as well as it having sent the elden beast. And outer gods can curse demigods. As well as malenia's master sealing a god of rot, if it was simply an apostle it wouldn't affect the lakes and world around it, nor would the god be called rot itself. And the kindred wouldn't worship it as reverently
@@latel4544 I think what @Step means is that the Outer Gods don't have a physical form _that can fully manifest in The Lands Between (TLB)_ . The Greater Will itself, which has been the presiding god for an unknown stretch of time before the player Tarnished arrives, can only send champions and avatars (Radagon and The Elden Beast) to represent it and protect the Elden Ring. I like to think of them similarly to the Chaos Gods of Warhammer 40k. Their presences are just so large & they are from entirely other dimensions, so they can't interact corporeally with TLB in person, and have to do it through different mediums. For Shabriri/The Frenzied Flame it's via the yelough Flame of Frenzy and his hosts (like Yura), for The Lord of Rot that's the rot and his avatars and minions etc.
@@DrAlchem01 I mean we don't know fully, that could he the case but it could equally be that the gods don't manifest since it could bring devastation to the world or they have some pact to not directly interfer. It could even be that they have multiple planets they preside over and can't give too much attention to one. Since we know aliens exist and marika technically is one. The Lands Between just seem important to the outer gods since the crucible and many inhabitants are there. The greater will kind of abandon's it's people multiple times and doesn't really have the best policies. It could also be certain means must be met to summon an outer god, like how only certain items and rituals can wound them
Phenomenal. I’ve been particularly fascinated by this topic and you’ve certainly done it justice, I’m in total agreement about Malenia having yet to experience her 3rd blossoming, I thought as much from the very beginning One thing about Gowry; I am actually convinced that he may be a projection of the Rot God, in the same sense that some believe that Shabriri is the frenzied flame made manifest If so then, like Shabriri, Gowry was once a mortal and became something more, it could explain his ability to project himself through the pests, it could be another reason why he sees the valkyries as his daughters, besides that he took them in as children Lastly, Gowry says that, as he’s grown old, the best thing to do is be forgotten. I feel like this could be the God of Rot speaking, how it has been largely forgotten by the denizens of the Lands Between and that has allowed it to make a resurgence, largely unrestricted with the order of the world in the way that it is
I appreciate that you noticed that the milicent that invades us has different hair, and therefore its her from before she got cured. But, more obvious, she has two arms when she invades us. When we find her she has one.
Yet another truly great video ! Gotta say I was in the third bloom camp but the evidence presented here has changed my mind over it, great stuff really. I was pretty ambivalent about Malenia up until a few weeks ago, there was this strong notion that "Chad Radahn still fights like a demon while holding the stars in check and learned gravity magic for his horse, he's so great" that made me a bit more partial to him over Malenia regarding who was fighting for the better cause then. I've since changed my view completely. It has dawned upon me that, in yet another show of Miyazaki's favorite theme (i.e stagnation is bad and the ones who fight for the status quo are the bad guys), Radahn is actually the one who's fighting for the status quo. The stars guide the fate of the Carian royal family, Radahn included. Iji and Jerren both know of this saying, so we can only assume it's relatively common knowledge, Radahn had to know what he was doing. And yet he literally put his own fate on hold, presumably to try to preserve his status and the order of the world that favors him. Even the tale of Leonard is ever so slightly grimmer when looking at things like that, Radahn will literally move mountains to keep the horse he loves instead of accepting to move forward in his life, even if the horse might be hurting. The Shattering was a war to decide on the order of the world, so props to Malenia for doing what she had to, otherwise Radahn might have ended up reigning and becoming yet another ruler of a broken stagnant world. Miquella and Malenia would have probably won in the end were it not for Mohg, I really like the story that this whole take on things spins.
This. I do not necessarily think Radahn was purposely evil or thought of preserving the established Order for personal gain, tho. It's my head canon that Radahn was just naive, unable to see the strings, mainly because of how he idolized Godfrey, who is a fundamental figure of the Golden Order. Chadahn is Chadahn, after all
Kinda fitting that the worst thing about Radahn is him stopping some space rocks for speculative heroic reasons, and Malenia willingly destroyed a country and probably much more if they didn't contain the rot spread.
The narrative of the scarlet rot was one of my favorite threads to unravel throughout my first playthrough. I remember being horrified at the quarantine measures put in place around caelid, and then even more horrified when I found rot enemies hidden away on the altus plateau! I loved the details about people in the capital thinking the rot is a myth, and then the castellan becoming obsessed with malenia as a waifu figure. There's so much in this game that makes the world feel so much realer and more active, with individual people with their own drives and paths, than something like dark souls where there's just you and a handful of other living wanderers in a dead world.
I havent played a lot of it but you rarely see a lot of npcs or what seems to be normal human beings at the same place either so it doesnt feel very much alive too imo
@@alexterieur8813 they’re specifically referring to the fact that the NPC’s in Elden Ring actually have character, ambition and purpose. Whereas in souls people are just hollow… That’s what makes ER more “alive” than something like DS.. You need only read what the person said to understand 🫡
@@SmoughTown I loved it, and you right she’s a Empyrean not a Demi-God like I said. But my dude, keep up the videos, I can’t get enough. I absolutely love your lore vids.
@Sam Cooper I was thinking ST was gonna reply but the reason why Ranni, Malenia and Miquella are Empyrean is because they came from a single god. Ranni came from Radagon, and was gifted to Rennala. Marika had Malenia and Miquella; therefore Empyrean.
as much as I dread to think of what a true Goddess of Rot fight would look like, I'm hoping Malenia does come back, preferably as an NPC. She's such an interesting character, and I'd have loved to have given her a hand in saving her brother
I think she will be a NPC as well as we return her sense of self via Unalloyed Gold Needle with Millicent’s dew on it and she gave us Miquella’s needle and Ancient Smith Dragon Stone for a reason
@@darthacez that's a pretty neat theory, especially with the part of Millicent fulfilling her goal of restoring some of who Malenia was before her battle with Radhan. If anyone could give us Miquella's Needle it's his twin.
As much as I and everyone else wish that, I don't think it will happen, it's not Fromsoft's style in these games to give concrete conclusion, or even a continuation of characters already shown, especially already been a boss. Although I do believe DLC will have something to do with Miquella at least, since he's mentioned in a lot of occasions but never truly "shown", similar to the Gloam-Eyed Queen.
@@plipplop728 I heavily believe Malenia is going to play a major part in Miquella’s dlc as she is Miquella’s twin and twins are one of major themes in the game and she,along with Miquella has cut content and we know that FR use some of the cut content for DLC
@@darthacez Well, let's wait and see. It irritates me though why The Tarnished not just tell Malenia of Miquella's location, since we already discovered him with Mohg, heck we even already killed the abductor. Why can't we just be friends and devours the Gods togetha with her, lol.
Adding to the semantics of Malenia's second phase not being a "true" goddess, I think it's important to observe that she's really not treated like a goddess the same way that Marika/Radagon/EB is. With how preoccupied the lategame is with the idea of "killing a god," you'd think that, if Malenia was really in her final form, there'd be much more attention given to it. But, when you defeat Gideon after killing Malenia, he'll still tell you that he believes a man cannot kill a god, which wouldn't make much sense if you already did kill one. Plus you don't get the "god slain" text when you kill Malenia. There's definitely some ambiguity on whether the scarlet aeonia item description was written before the fight with her (which would indicate that her bloom during the fight is her third) or after (which would mean she's yet to become that goddess) but I do think it's worth pointing out that there are other remembrance item descriptions that indicate they were written after the fight with their respective bosses (eg the grafted dragon). That doesn't necessarily mean all the item descriptions are meant to be read as being written after the fights but it does lend credence to the idea that Malenia's only bloomed twice by time you defeat her.
Malenia is in her final form, because we killed her ass lol. But seriously, Gideon doesn't know anything, he still laughs at the idea that Mohg is a threat despite being in service to an Outer God and in possession of Miquella.
I don't know we see 3 "canon" blooms... 1 when fighting Radahan 2 the physical flower before the boss room And 3 the boss fight phase change It seems pretty consistent that she is in her final form, whether that is a "true" goddess or not
It's possible all the outer gods represent the dead body of a single God (the one Great?) broken apart, representing different aspects. Greater will is the hand and its envoys the fingers, separated also into the 3 fingers. Hands represent the ability to create order and organization but also to cause destruction and chaos. Formless mother is the blood of this single god. Scarlet rot is either the stomach or decay of the single gods broken form. Fell God is the face or head, represented by the, well, face. I'm sure there are correlations to other body parts with other outer gods, but these are a few of the observations I've noticed. Perhaps we'll meet the outer god of feet in the DLC , perhaps they are connected to Miquella.
Literally had this thought today. Everyone's been talking how the FF and the GW make up the One Great, but I think the Fracture created all of the Outer Gods. Just a hunch, but I think there might be 8 in total.
Here I am, once again thanking you for your wonderful work, cant wait to experience it over the weekend. Two hour and a half long lore vids in less than two weeks. You absolute madlad. Hope you get a good weekend, with well deserved rest.
I like to think that Millicent is Malenias will incarnate, and when you return the needle for her she is able to regain that aspect of herself. It would be so fitting if Millicent’s quest line was Malenias all along. She could still be alive in that bloom after all.
You are correct. Millicent is physical manifestation of Malenia’s sense of self and dignity to resist the rot and with you returning the needle containing her dew - essence of Malenia’s sense of self -to the flower Malenia is now herself again and out of gratitude and compassion she , in the flower, gives you Miquella’s needle and Ancient Smith Dragon Stone. In other words she’s alive.
Awesome vid as always. Malenia is another subject that I thought I knew most things about. Turns out I was very VERY wrong. Thank you so much for the consistent bangers you put out!
The Scarlet Rot chapter was a brilliant start. I think most people don’t quite get the fundamental thing about the scarlet rot. It’s not just some ordinary plague/sickness that you just get, suffer and die. Like you said, it’s “an aspect of a Outer God”, it's a curse, a part of this being, perhaps in the middle of a big process of rebirth to change the whole world into its own image. One just doesn’t die to the Scarlet Rot, but transforms into something else completely. No wonder they say Malenia resisted “the Call of the Rot”, because it’s almost if the Scarlet Rot itself is alive and aiming to infect all living things. I also loved the chapter "Malenia, Blade of Miquella”. Smough, you not only did a amazing work speaking of her character, through her actions, the determination and courage despite all the afflictions, but I also could see your admiration for the character during the chapter, and that’s always so nice to see. Edit: your video is also the only one out there that gives enough attention for the "Order of Rot" and how occult, and at the same time, huge, it actually is within the world of Elden Ring. Edit2: Just finished the video. Probably my favorite video you have done so far Smough. Besides a tiny little bit of repetition in the "Outer God" chapter, the rest of the video is so good with lots of good observations, connections and exposition, alongside intriguing especulation. The very ending, of a possible Malenia comeback, made me chills a bit haha Hope she's on our side next time! Thanks a lot for the video Smough!
Thats incredible that you think it's the best one yet! Thank you so much, I am rather pleased with it too. I admire Malenia so much after making this video and genuinely had a blast making it! Thank you as always
One thing to remember is that you get Miquella's Needle only after giving the Unalloyed Gold Needle back to the Aeonian Bloom of Malenia. I think this indicates that this will give her a second chance, preventing her third blooming, possibly even preventing her rebirth. It may even be that the bloom will die without rebirthing Miquella, putting an end to the Goddess of Rot before she fully forms.
As an interesting tidbit - when you wear Malenia's armor in the Lake of Rot, it loses its golden sheen. It turns dull iron and loses the gold. It somewhat suggests that with enough rot the unalloyed loses its power and physically changes appearance
On top of this being an absolutely incredible and well-researched video can I just say how happy I am as an Irish person that you pronounced Siofra correctly
The lore content creators for this game are bar none the best I’ve come across. You do so much work on your own and in collaboration with each other. We’re very lucky to have you in the community. Keep up the great work
This confirms what I've always feared. There can be no question or denial any longer: Elden Ring is a secret sequel to Mario Bros. The Kingdom of Rot... Rot = Mushrooms so Kingdom of Rot = Mushroom Kingdom. They had lords and a hierarchical nobility, like Princess Toadstool. It also explains why the Lake of Rot is so deep and overwhelming. Mario must have been consumed by the rot, so he could no longer clean and maintain the Mushroom Kingdom's Pipe drainage system, causing it to clog and overflow. The result is as inevitable as it is tragic.
When you were talking about a physical manifestation of a god, I'd like to add in that seemingly the "Outer gods" are rarely referred to as just "gods", I think whenever a god is mentioned I feel it is always just a conduit of their will in the world (Lands Between or else). We can see this for instance with Marika/Radagon, as they are referred to as a god, but we also know that they serve (or were supposed to serve) the Greater Will, which presumably is an Outer god. I believe this also goes for "Shabriri" and the God of Fell. I always got the impression from listening to lore and playing the game, that whenever an Empyrean is born, there is a struggle between the Outer gods to claim it. This may also be a reason why the "Grace" is guiding us to kill them. It may also suggest that Ranni potentially was overtaken by a different Outer god and therefore destroyed her Two Fingers (representative of the Greater Will) and even went so far as to burn her original body. This struggle with original bodies is the same for Malenia and Miquella. As they were on an excessive mission to find a way to stop the influence of the other Outer gods (or any). One way that Miquella found was the "needle", but the Hailgtree was presumably meant as a more permanent solution. This theory also explains why Mohg stole Miquella, because he was the only Empyrean left with a body that could be used, even though it seems that he was inhabited by the god of slumber (not really sure here) and I believe Mohg was trying his utmost to change him to inhabit his goddess of blood. TL;DR: Outer gods and gods are not synonymous.
thanks for taking your time to do this, i tried to understand something about the general lore of elden ring but it is all so hard to put together during a play through it's painful. when i fought Malenia and all the other Demigods, the mobs and looked at the overall world i constantly asked myself questions that went unanswered. Little rant: i get that the game is interesting cause it's cryptic and misterious but goddamn
I remember watching your lore videos back when you were doing dark souls vids, it is absolutely awesome that you’ve become one of THE fromsoft lore analysts. Great stuff!!
I really really hope the DLC involves more lore about the Scarlet Rot. It’s such a well thought out concept and the stories involving it are some of the most touching in the game. Melania is a character I found myself looking up to, especially after Gowry’s questline. In fact, it’s 100% the reason I gave up on fighting her after 60 attempts. No other reason, i just didn’t want to kill her is all
I just love the name Maleigh Marais. Marais is French for "swamp" and Maleigh conjures up words like Malinger or Malaise. Very fitting for a Swamp Simp!
54:10 I don't think the giant dogs and crows the Redmanes are fighting actually have anything to do with the influence of the Scarlet Rot, as they can also be found on the Mountaintops of the Giants. Due to the additional presence of the gigantic skeletons in both areas, I'd say that both the skeletons and giant animals are there because Caelid is, in one way or another, connected to the Mountaintops. Both places are also closer than most people realize, making up the tips on the "C" shape of the landmass of the Lands Between.
I think its just because the halligtree is in the mountaintops, and therefore exposed to the rot itself. Even Mohg's palace is just below Caelid, so it's no surprise that the rot infect the place too. What is curious tho is that if there's giant crows in mohgwyn palace, the dogs are on normal forms. So i think the sanguine ppl just took some of the crows from below to defend the palace.
I found this really interesting, although I've delved into a lot of lore and knew at least 85% of this, the precise and eloquent speech really made it an interesting watch. Also people have thought outer gods are completely non physical and only concepts incarnate, but I'd argue there are multiple instances that disprove this. They seem closer to bloodborne old ones but more powerful and influential
Thanks La Tel - appreciate your kind words. And indeed we do need to revisit our theories on Outer-Gods; I think many take alot of what we know from the Formless mother...who is just that formless as if it is a characteristic that separates her from her kin.
@@SmoughTown Do you think formless could be a reference to appearance like formless oedon? After all when skills pierce her when only see the blood come from an invisible gash. And indeed her formlessness must be different from other outer gods, otherwise I'd be strange to name her after something they all have. And her being the mother of truth is equally as interesting
It could be possible that the talk of Melinia becoming a “true” goddess means her acceptance of her destiny and that her blooming refers to moments where she did accept it momentarily as a means to an end.
I heavily believe that Malenia is going to be a NPC/an ally in the DLC as returned her sense of self via Unalloyed Gold Needle with Millicent’s dew (essence of Millicent containing Malenia’s sense of self). Malenia,inside the flower, gives you Miquella’s needle and Ancient Smith Dragon Stone as a form of gratitude (a trade) for returning her sense of self and if you read the descriptions she is giving you hints how to remove a god’s influence and kill one. And if possible, I theorize that she’ll have Millicent’s memories of her journey and the Tarnished.
That's too much happiness and continuation for a Fromsoft game tho lol. I strongly believe something like that ain't gonna happen, but at least something to do with Miquella, just not as jolly as you described.
@@plipplop728 It might happen but the ending might be bittersweet and plus we may get the cut Age of Abundance ending. Plus (possibly due to the influence of GRRM) this game focuses on hope and the Will to do good and change things for the better unlike the Dark Souls trilogy
One thing I'd like to note is that although Siofra does mean "Fairy", Ainsel is also the name of a fairy in a popular fairy tale. In the Ainsel fairy tale: A mother is trying to get her young son to get to bed, but he says he wants to stay up. She says fine, just be careful the Fairy Mother doesn't steal you away. She goes to sleep. A small fairy child comes down the chimney, introduces herself to the son as "Ainsel" (which means "my own self"). She asks his name. He says "Just my own self too" (to me, he seems unsure he should reveal his real name to this strange fairy child). After playing a while, the fire grows dim, the son goes to stoke the fire, then a small amber accidentally lands on the fairy girls foot and she scream. The old Mother Fairy's voice is heard through the chimney "What happened? Who hurt you?" The fairy child says "It was just my own self too!" The old Mother Fairy says "well if you hurt your own self, don't be so loud about it!" She then reaches her arm down the chimney and whisks the fairy child back home. The son goes to sleep and is terrified at what he saw. Scared he may actually be abducted through the chimney the next time, he now does what his mother tells him to do, and goes to sleep on time. I have no idea how this fairy tale connects to anything in Elden Ring, tbh, just thought I'd share what I just discovered online.
I think it’s worth noting that the Blind Swords man saved her life. Scarlet rot is stated to decay the body but his fighting style is what counters scarlet rot. Seeing as though her Great rune states that it allows you to heal from the life force of others. Teaching her from birth, his techniques allowed her to keep her body full of life to off set the constant decay until her brother could develop the alloy. This nameless figure is single handedly responsible for her life and ascension
I think even if malenia rotted she wouldve just ended up in the same dormant flower state, and since i dont think shes dead currently, i think she'd just be alive but a shadow of what she once was, a vessel of the rot
Absolutely love and tremendously enjoy your videos! They are a great listen and insightful look at the game's lore. Your videos are in no way long. In fact I really wish they were longer, which speaks to the quality of your writing and presentation. Best of luck to you and really looking forward to more content from you and hope you will be around once the DLC's are released.
This was amazing. I never thought I would watch an hour+ long video on video game lore but I did and I plan to watch anything else this creator makes. Great content, amazing video! Thanks for the entertainment and insight.
The true tragedy of Malenia’s story: She never got to learn who Dafeet was 😢 Edit: on a serious note I love Malenia! My favorite character in soulsborne. And I definitely agree with you conclusion after finishing the video, who’s ready for Malenia phase 4?
You know, a lot of the lore in Elden Ring makes me wonder why we're being attacked by all these people. The Redmane soldiers are a perfect example. Assuming they haven't lost their minds, we could potentially be on the same side. I guess everyone is just Gracist in the Lands Between.
Yeah tbh that is what makes this feel like a video game more than it should. Everyone attacks you on sight because it's a video game and that's what enemies do
If you kill the sage, he turns into a pest and says that it doesn't matter - because there are countless more pests to inhabit. I think he's the embodiment of the scarlet blight who is trying to create the perfect vessel for himself.
So basically, what you're saying is that in order to stop the encroachment of the Scarlet Rot, we need to become the Lord of the Frenzied Flame and burn it all away and start over from scratch, right? Right.
I believe that the scarlet flower before malenia's fight is her 1st bloom (accidentally) as how would she know how to use the flower against radahn and why would she randomly just bloom again, while unconscious, after arriving at the haligtree, after her flight with radahn.
Actually I have a counter to what happened in Radahn’s fight with Malenia. I think Malenia exploded with scarlot rot but even so the effort and damage she took still was too much for her and she passed out. What I think happens is what we see in the very first Elden Ring trailer where Radahn is stabbed by a cleanrot knight with a spear, and this could very well be Finlay. Radahn gets impaled and Finlay manages to escape with Malenia while Radahn is left to stare up at the sky as Scarlot Rot over takes him. Another detail I like if in the story trailer you see him bend over to take the Flower’s blast for his horse.
something i didn't notice mentioned is that like the blind swordsman who taught her, malenia is also blind. i suppose everyone knows malenia is blind but perhaps it additionally explains the affinity between her and her teacher.
I think the sealing of Destined Death caused a lot of folk to seek new ways to die. It's clear that this is what was really keeping the Age of the Erdtree going. The undead curse spreading, the Scarlet Rot and the Dung Eater's curse all wanted a solution. They are all about death and rebirth. I wonder how things would be if Destined Death were never sealed to begin with.
I'm thinking the same thing. Malenia born with Scarlet Rot was the reaction of 2 fingers to Marika hiding the rune of Death, since 2 fingers had no way of reaching the rune in a place said to be beyond the influence of outer gods. Scarlet Rot is just the way to forcefully change the cycle, which Marika tried to stop.
@@sergeysmyshlyaev9716 Malenia's Two Fingers are dead at the top of the isolated tower. As Morgott states: all the demigods and empyreans are traitors. Malenia and Miquella were opposed to the Golden Order, and I doubt either were in favour of the Frenzied Flame. I think Miquella was trying to create something new and different.
A distinction needs to be made between the bloom of aeonia swamp and the one in the actual Malenia boss fight in terms of their individual magnitude, the first one is the equivalent of an atomic bomb wrecking Caelid while the latter is more of a fart directed toward a lowly tarnished
Well... them lowly tarnished are easy to underestimate. Probably thought she didn't need to bloom that hard... it's also less... personal? Something about what happens to Caelid feels like REAL spite... I feel like Melania needed Radahn to do something so that Miquella and she could both cure her and keep the haligtree growing, he said 'no' and for that she REALLY let him have it.
Your insight is amazing, and has helped me put together a lot of things and theories, so thank you for all the hard work you've done, and I hope you keep going! As a side note, you're theory on how the Valkyries will rise from a bloom like Malenia does in her second phase makes me wonder about the Aeonia left behond afterwards and the wording of Scarlet Aeonia, it may be a hint at dlc that's been missed by the vast majority.
I always thought that Radahn kept fighting after the bloom, and was sent into a battle frenzy. Thats why he's pierced with so many spears as he assailed the cleanrot knights as they carried away Malenia.
@@waypastthenorm8629 The trailer also shows them in the wrong place so... the trailer isn't like... fantastically indicative of what actually happened. The trailer seems to me to be something more like... the 'mythicized' idea of what went down.
@Lena Johnson huh I really didn't expect to get a reply to this. I dont think even fromsoftware knows the exact cannon details of how that battle went down so we can't ever confirm our interpretations.
@@waypastthenorm8629 I find it to be the case with a lot of the imagery we get of things in the game where the imagery presented in cutscenes, paintings etc. don't completely match with the information we uncover from item descriptions and npc's to the extent that I feel much of it is intended to be murky as if it were 'in universe mythology'
Great video! Very easy to follow… although I love Malenia as a boss her words haunt me over and over and over.. “I am Malenia, blade of Miquella.” I was stuck on her for a while
Another fantastic video with such attention to detail and beautifully put together. This might have already been pointed out; but one of the neutral poses of the “Pests” does strongly resembles a scorpion with the Pests tail arching over their body. This can be seen by some of them in Caelid. A nice nod to the Goddess.
Just want to add to the Blue Dancer part to those who don't know, that his sword is in the game - the Flowing Curved Sword. Would've been cool to have its move set showed in there:) It's cool to see a bit of the fighting style of the Blue Dancer in the strong attack! Item description: "Legends speak of a master of the sword garbed in blue, and his curved blade that was patterned after flowing water. Strong attack unleashes a series of strikes akin to a dance, offering a glimpse into the legend."
i think the biggest piece of evidence that malenia hasn't died her final death is her remembrance. every other remembrance we get uses past tense --- "was" "they were" --- but malenia's doesn't, instead it uses "miquella and malenia are..." "...they are both..." maybe i'm reading into it a little too hard, but i really hope we get expansions on both malenia and miquella. they're by far my favorite characters in soulsborne and they deserve the spotlight
so pretty much regardless of whatever ending we choose, the Lands Between being taken over by Rot is inevitably the canon ending. It's taken all of Caelid, The haligtree is infested, and there's a whole lake under Liurnia. it's servants spread it and it seems like it they are actively doing so in the Caelid wilds. It seems as if the rot is spreading towards Limgrave from a centralized location ( swamp of Aoenia) and the only one capable of staving it off in an effective manner is Miquella but he's only managed this with a person, how will he protect the physical landscape and it's inhabitants from the rot spreading? Plus he's pretty much out of commission at the moment for who knows how long. so in short, it's not even a matter of "if"; it's just a matter of "when" and "how long before it does".
Another fantastic video, doing amazing work with these, so in depth. Can't wait for DLC, hopefully there will be some with the twins, their story really needs further exploration.
I just… these two. I love these two characters the most, alongside Alexander and Gold Mask. In bodies flawed, they found and supported one another. Instead of devotion to an outer god, they devoted themselves to each other. To protect and support one another, so they may thrive, it’s just genuinely one of the more sweet stories of this game, so the fact that Mohg severed this by kidnapping Miquella, stealing him away… it makes me somewhat less sympathetic to him. While Mohg has been mistreated by society, he has mistreated another, a martyr for his own goals, and all the while defiling the young Miquella, only to not attain his twisted goals. I sympathize with his desire for belonging, but not for his actions. Not the actions of someone desperate, but the actions of a manipulative person.
Mohg is additionally ALSO a Twin so he ought to have recognized the significance of the sin he was comiting. in fairness however. Mohg and 'he who shall not be named but whom but many a foolish ambition to rest' were also twins... whose lives may have actually been significantly worse even than Melania and Miquella's! The Empyrean twins were heralded as the future despite their flaws. The Omens twins however were shut away, hidden and imprisoned... nevertheless I can't but think the pairs of twins must have found some kind of common ground in their suffering and communicated some, perhaps even going so far as to extend an offer to come join them at the Halligtree? For Mohg to have become as smitten with Miquella as he did, indicates to me that Miquella showed him some kindness or other that affected the bloody old Omen.
@@lenajohnson6179 agreed. If the Omen Twins were allowed a bit of kindness, a bit of a chance to be the powerful and wise figures they were meant to be, all the demigod children could’ve been a powerful force for good, for the betterment of the Lands Between. The acceptance of flaws, the celebration of them, showing that Omens are not beasts, they are people, with the capability of housing and controlling any wild anger or bloodlust that may shine forth. It makes me kind of sad, because instead of trying to aid the Omens in controlling any more animalistic natures they house, allowing them to flourish, maybe even finding a treatment for their constantly growing horns, they were locked away, had primary aspects of them cut away, until they were nothing. Also, I don’t think Mohg loves Miquella in a romantic way; I think he sees Miquella more as a means to an end, a way to become the consort of a very powerful, and very wise, god like Miquella. It’s what a lot of royals did back in the day; marry for power, not love.
I find Malenia’s story sad and moving. Millicent‘s thread in particular. I always feel guilty when I invade the Haligtree during a play through. Like, why am I bothering Malenia? But, you know, loot and all.
I'm doing the same on Joe Rogan's podcasts, now these lore hunters in TH-cam are my favourite now. this dude rocks, also, to support this dude's channel, don't skip an ad if there's one shows up it's a sign of supporting his channel.
A thing that I personally adore regarding the use of butterflies is how they are so intrinsically linked to Malenia. Starting as caterpillars, pupating then emerging. The buds to me look like a cocoon state in which she has to undergo this stage 3 times to emerge as a "true God." Not only that, but the butterfly being linked to death due to they're natural, if gruesome, food source being blood and decayed flesh. I dunno, I just dig it! ~ I struggle to link her directly to the suggested corporeal Scorpion form of the original God of Rot, but there is the potential that they could be linked to many different beings and the Scorpion is just one epithet.
I think you completely forgot to mention the fact Gowry actually not a human, but one of these pest-creatures. If you kill him, he transform into his actual form just like Zorayas transform into her serpent form.
I know I might be late but the fact that Malenia might still be in the middle of her final transformation is even suggested by Millicent questline - Gowry wants us to kill Milicent at the end of her journey to make her into valkyrie. It's a bit ironic but I think killing Malenia is actually progressing the things for the worse, just like her almost close defeat by Radahn, we trigger the strongest emotional reaction out of her by defeating her. Hell maybe even her insisting on being undefeated is related to the fact that if she falls, she will give up to scarlet rot more, I don't see that she couldn't know this with her brothers huge knowledge at her side. And it all connects to the death and rebirth. Scarlet rot wants Malenia to die to let her enter a new form that it can control. From Software connecting dots like this will never stop impressing me I think, even if some of it may be more a speculation than intentional infornation.
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What are your thoughts on the Scarlet Rot and Malenia?
Hit me up with your comments below!
I've zoomed out on Chrome and I am a boomer, someone help
@@SmoughTown click the three dots in the top corner and the zoom setting should be there
@@thebigsucc030 omg thank you
@@SmoughTown lmao, also you can use CTRL + Mouse Wheel. Some guy.
@@SmoughTown
I have a theory that Malenia constantly repeats that she is the Blade of Miquella so she herself doesn’t forget. I can’t imagine the scarlet rot would eat away at her flesh but leave her brain alone.
Gowry mentions the Rot does affect memory. Millicent apparently had forgotten all but her painful existence as a vector of the Rot until you help her. Once you do, at Gowry's prompting, she begins to slowly recover her memories. So you are completely correct in thinking this is why Malenia would repeat that phrase.
She only repeats that if you die you know... XD relatable homie
honesly... malenia makes my heart hurt
Yeah and I'm sure Margit has Alzheimers cause he keeps saying the same line when you keep dying over and over again, what a Reddit theory
Wym she only said it once for me 😏
5:30 one of the coolest things about scarlet rot is that you can use it to infect the undead like the Tibia Mariner. Imagine a magical disease so potent that it can even assail an incorporeal ghost, a divine virus that withers away not only the body but also the very soul.
Say what you want about elden ring's game design, but I think it has EASILY the coolest lore and worldbuilding of any From title
It actually eats everything including your bones and can even eat steel and iron the tibia mariners are not ghosts actually they are just skeletons like the undead
@@jackbobb2711 dark souls and bloodborn definitely have better lore
@@Celebrimbor965 ok
@@lt_johnmcclane ok
i think the most touching thing about miquella and melania is that both of them have dedicated their lives to helping the other. miquella founded unalloyed gold just to help his sister and melania dedicated her life to the sword to become the physical presence that miquella couldn’t be. it kind of reminds me of that old christmas story where a husband sells his watch to get his wife a fancy hair brush while his wife sells her hair to get her husband some watch thing
I think I read that story back when I was in elementary school! It was called "The Magi," if I'm remembering correctly.
@@soap9277 it's called "the gift of the magi". I don't really like Christmas, both the religious and consumerist aspects really put me off, but that story really stands out to me as what the holiday should truly be about.
The gift from the wife was a new band for the watch in a lot of the tellings I've heard. Pretty sure I've heard it told with a new chain, suggesting a pocketwatch instead,
@@kylegonewild If it's an older story, yeah, the original version would definitely be talking about a chain - pocket watches go back a LOT longer than wristwatches. (1510 vs 1810, according to a quick google, and even then it took until WWI for the wristwatch to become popular (pocket watches being rather inconvenient in the intensity of trench warfare) ...and it took even later developments like the solid state electronics in the 1980s that make the modern quartz wristwatch what it is today. Or...was back in the 90s before we started using our phones as pocketwatches, I guess.
The best laid plans of mice and men…
I like the theory that Malenia declares who she is and that’s she’s never been defeated because she’s trying her best to remember because of the rot, but I also like to think she may not even be referring to combat, but the struggle to keep the Scarlett rot contained. Trying to convince herself that she will never slip up and release the rot, even though it’s already too late.
Bro she's out her blooming everywhere. We got lakes of rot, waterfalls of rot. If that's her goal, to contain the rot, she's taking heavy losses 😂
@@TifffanyTaylorTo be fair she only bloomed the once in Caelid.
The OTHER rot area was a completely different incarnation of the rot god. Who was put down by the flowing blade warrior.
@Starlitsoul0359 but the haligtree has the waterfall, & rivers of rot. So maybe I'll let the lake thing slide. She's still being charged with possession of rot, intent to distribute rot (felony). Illegal smuggling of rot across borders (caelid). It's looking rough, maybe she gets a good lawyer in the dlc 🤣
@@TifffanyTaylor Well, the haligtree is definitely a second bloom on Malenia, but regardless.
The one in Caelid WAS intentional, so yeah. She’s tried and failed. With effectively an eternal life to live it was unfortunately just about inevitable.
….
Also. Sorry to say. But she ain’t getting a lawyer. This is a FROMSOFT game. Nobody gets happy endings. Just… Endings. If you’re lucky.
Which, a neutral nonclosure is kinda the BEST outcome compared to some other fates…
@@Starlitsoul0359 😅 yea no happy endings is a real thing. Millicent quest had my feelings hurt all over again the other day.
If we live long enough to see the elden ring dlc that'll be the good ending for us.
Seems like one of the biggest items with lore on the Lake was missed - the map for it. "It is said that the divine essence of an outer god is sealed away in this land", so apparently Outer God of Rot is located directly below/in/whatever the lake, which explains it being in such advanced state of rotting
Great spot, thank you!
Are you talking about Aonia in Caelid or the Lake of Rot beneath Liurnia?
@@libertyprime6932 Lake of Rot. Specifically, item “Map (Lake of Rot)”
WAIT THE MAPS HAVE LORE??
@@blobbything2986 Yep! xD They are all in “Notes” page, to the left of the default one
Was just talking to my friend about how malenia cant see anymore, and our footsteps in the water is how she knows where we are, and explains why her swings are so long and cover a lot of area.
Wow never thought about that. Figure she just saw us thru magic or some power
@@Drawnartist to us it explains the waterfowl too. She doesnt know exactly where you are, so a bunch of attacks in your general direction should be enough to hit you. Also, she almost never lands the grab.
@@jankfoot88 she doesn’t land the grab because we dodge it lmao, because dodging is the main mechanic in all souls games, not some headcannon lmao.
She was able to fight Radahn to a standstill without any water to hear, and she did so while blind, a triple amputee, and super poisoned.
It’s clear her power goes beyond just eye sight. It’s stated she trained under a blind swords man who originally helped seal the original god of rot.
The blind swordsman who trained Malenia is who the “warrior” starting class is modeled after. There are many descriptions that show this.
Her swings cover a wide area because she has a long ass sword, and because she’s huge, she’s tall af, so she just has a longer reach.
@@trnrred489 yeah but radahn big he a big stompy boi
It's almost as if she was a blind swordmaster in blue.
I love the fact that you retract statements and goes on to think differently than in previous videos, it really shows that you are well researched and that you are also learning with the rest of us, very humble.
Thanks Raymander - exactly, just learning as I go and 100% appreciate it when people change my mind on things.
@@SmoughTown random, but definitely wanna throw in my appreciation for/of SmoMan changing his mind on the bloom here. (Apologies @Raymander for hijacking your post with hopes Smoman might spot this as he commented before)
I wanted to expand that the simple way that comment went down illustrated qualities very lacking in a lot of channels.... and real life. 1.Willingness to change his mind upon continued research. 2.Thoughtfulness to apologize and clrify to the audience. all together it shows most 3.Accountability, saying it happened, while also making the important distinction that its OK That it happens to him or anyone, but being a content creator hes sticking his neck out doing all of that. Its terrible that whats really a small blurb says so much bout this chnnel as well s what you find too often everywhere else.. Maybe being new or just learning or a good person has upsides as long as he isnt crucified like Marika for "flip-flopping"
Doesn’t that show a lack of research if he is constantly and blatantly wrong about things?
@@Sluggadome_Rotunda_Bernardson not really, no.
@@Sluggadome_Rotunda_Bernardson he's neither "constantly" nor "blatantly" wrong.
Changing your opinion on something because you gained new information/perspective is what people with intelligence do.
One interesting thing I found when playing then double checked in the voice lines is that Iji can make weapons that don't succumb to the scarlet rot. And this is mentioned by Jerren. They are always blunt as stone but never fall to the rot. I'll put in the full quote.
"Well, I haven't heard that name in an age. Then you must serve Princess Ranni? The next time you speak to Iji, tell him this: The festival of Radahn will surely set Ranni's fate into motion. By the by... Is that old fool still hammering out weapons? His enormous frame, cramped in that little place... Bit of a haughty sort. Strange fella, when I knew him. And funny thing, his swords were all blunt as stone. But not one of them decayed when faced with the scarlet rot..."
That is interesting
Hass to be dlc, imagine a new special type of stone only found in dlc areas that grant special strengths and immunity, id assume new weapons could be brought that use this type of stone
I wonder if the stone mentioned is the somber smithing stone - since this is the main item Iji sells.
If so, would this imply that somber smithing stones prevent rot?
That would make me even more curious as to the true origin of somber smithing stones - ie what they're made of.
blunt as stone lol. i think hes kinda a reference to demon souls baldwin and ed i think their names were. twin blacksmiths. they made dragon bone smasher i think and thats what is said about that weapon 😂 more of a slab than a sword.
Would this in theory mean that ancient dragons are immune to scarlet rot? Or at least resistant to it since they have scales of gravel-stone
finally, finally someone who noticed that malenia only bloomed twice! i was growing sick and tired of everyone acting like her blooming three times was a foregone conclusion. excellent work!
Thank you Mayhem!
@@SmoughTown I mean we see the trumpet dudes at the tree. Perhaps they are to hail a god of rot rather than a twink tree dude who loves 24k gold and getting kidnapped
@@SassyTheSasquatch96 the situation after the god of rot you mentioned sounds like a hentai.
I could see it either way, but the inner haligtree is covered with the same looking withered branches at the heart of aeonia, which are there before the bloom in our fight.
@@dakotaanderson7906 I think the explanation for that is the scarlet Aeonia before the boss room. You pickup the armor set that Millicent wears next to it which suggestes that another one of millicent's siblings bloomed there rather than Malenia
I hope that the DLC furthers Miquella & Malenias stories. I think it'd be cool if we actually got to speak with Miquella over at Mohgs place and we help him perfect his Unalloyed Gold in order to purge the Outer Gods and bring an Age of the Unalloyed at the Haligtree instead of the Erdtree
I'd like one with those two and one about the Godskins.
God I hope we get an expansion where we can learn more about Miquella, he's my favorite demigod simply because he was like "Fuck it, I'll make my own Erdtree"
I’m counting on that as DLC. Although I’m not sure it would go over well, waking up to a world where your home is in ruins and your twin is dead. Sounds like we’ll find out why he’s the “most dangerous Empyrean” of course I could be very wrong!
@@ClaudioTheCrowing109 I don't think that when Malenia calls Miquella the most fierce Empyrean, she's talking about his ability to kill someone, but is instead referring to his genius and cunning.
@@ClaudioTheCrowing109 I don't think his twin is even dead I'm pretty sure she is sleeping
I believe you can even see unalloyed gold like, grafted onto her flesh in places. If you've seen any close-ups on her character model, you can spy these crosshatched patches on her body that are the same hue as the prosthetics she wears.
The most tragic part of Malenia's story is that she's been battling the curse of rot since birth and never knew relief from it. In every battle, It was always a inner fight against the rot and against her opponents. Despite this she still managed to become an absolute god at combat without ever giving in to the rot. The only time she willingly used it was to overcome Radahn who was her most formidable opponent. And since she hated the rot, it is important to consider what was so necessary to her in the fight that she allowed the rot to take control and let go of her pride. I personally don't believe she was there for great runes because she had no reason to spare godrick. She spared him out of mercy. She was there specifically for Radahn, most likely because he would have been the biggest threat to miquella's rule over the haligtree. Also I don't think Malenia really intended to destroy caelid considering it was her first bloom and that she had been holding the rot back for a long time. Sudden release of energy ended up covering all of caelid. Pretty tragic if you think about it, she gave up on her honor and dignity to secure victory for Miquella only for Mohg to abduct him. I really hope we get to see more of the twin prodigies in a future dlc considering Malenia's bloomed only twice.
I've recently heard the theory that Malenia might have gone to Caelid with the intention of finding Miquella, since Mohgwyn Palace is directly below the Aeonia Swamp. This would imply that Miquella was abducted in the early stages of the Shattering, of course, and that Malenia could "sense" his twin's presence without knowing the exact spot. I have my doubts, but why Malenia went south and why she sounds so unconcerned with Miquella's fate are two Great mysteries I can't yet wrap my head around.
@@Pizzifrizzo It could be that she was looking for miquella however I don't think it is likely mainly because Mohg really wouldn't come to the Haligtree had Malenia been there. Also, Malenia marched with cleanrot army and some forces allied with Miquella such as Commander O'Neil and banished knights. This makes me believe they were likely under Miquella's orders to eliminate Radahn. I mean why would Malenia stop by Stormveil Castle to teach godrick a lesson if she was in a desperate search for her brother.
I think she has bloomed thrice though, in caelid, in the side room right before you fight her, and in her boss room against us.
@@zacharyfeldman9842 I always thought the smaller bloom in the side room was evidence of a Scarlet Valkyrie
@@Lithaleon yeah, I had never thought of that, but it makes a lot of sense. Also, in the video he mentioned that the scarlet aeonia spell says that she only bloomed twice, right? So that means the one in the side room cannot be her, would be my guess.
Thx for this. The demigod family tree is so confusing, so it helps to know that all rot-born creatures that occurred following the battle of Aeonia are in fact the children of Malenia, of which included the pests, the sisters, etc
She's got a lot of kids...
This really sheds context on the naming of "Waterfowl" dance. By name, reflecting her flowing water combat style, but also the proverbial "wings" of her prowess. In other words, a winged bird of the water: waterfowl.
Yeah man. That’s exactly what waterfowl means. Like a seagull, pelican, etc.
she turns the water foul
Waterfuck dance
@@PurriahOh my god! I didnt even know that! English is not my first language Oh my god it sounds so mutch better now!
I always thought the moves name was literally something like dirty water dance 😂😂😂
Water bird dance sounds so much better
I really hope we get new and unique Endings: *an Age of Rot, Unalloyed Gold, and Blood* endings would be really amazing.
Well, there are 3 empty great rune slots. 1 for (I think) Ranni, Miquella, and (shot in the dark) Godwyn.
All of these would be amazing endings though, I whole heartedly agree.
@@jostephan2077 doesn't Ranni already have an ending?
@@TheGreatGrumbolio yes, but she hid her rune when she cast off her body and you don't find it ingame
I think the gold thing is specific to malenia because gold is resistant to corrosion
I think there's some symbolic connection between the themes of stagnation leading to rot and Malenia being chosen as the vessel. She is the result of self-cest, an attempt by Marika/Radagon to keep the Golden Order for all eternity - leading the world into a state of stagnation. Maybe this was why the rot god was able to take hold of her.
Interesting idea about Malenia's lifesteal ablility being a kind of manifestation of her courage. I saw it a little differently though:
In the upper worshiper's woods where you fight the the Regal Ancestor Spirit, the Ancestral followers get this blue buff. What this buff actually does is give the Followers a lifesteal ability, just like Malenia's. I feel like this suggests that the lifesteal ability could be something that both Malenia and the Followers specifically learned from Siofra/The Blue Dancer. Thematically it makes sense that Siofra would provide a healing ability, as it's kind of the antithesis of Rot and decay.
10/10 theory no notes. That's legit a great thing to spot.
can you send a link to where you got that Siofra is .... a person at all. i can only find that its the name of the river , i dont see anything on google either. id love to know where you got that the blue dancers name was siofra
, because the location of that river is essential to raya lucaria , further proving that miquella and rennala likely worked very close with one another
The Blue Dancer is more associated with Ainsel than Siofra.
@@aristobrat4987 I think he might have meant the location... And might have confused it with Ainsel, where the Blind Swordsman-not to be confused with the "Blue Dancer," the "fairy" that gave him his Flowing Curved Sword-is confirmed to have sealed away the outer god of Rot.
Malenias great rune could have done it as a more powerful version as she does regain heath she lost she regains
Another great video Fellow Tarnished!
Also, you forgot to mention that the description of the Unalloyed Gold Needle changes when you receive it from Millicent’s corpse. It now contains Millicent’s dew - her essence containing Malenia’s sense of self and dignity.
When you return the the UGN to the flower after the boss fight, it gives you Miquella’s needle and Ancient Smith Dragon Stone - a sort of trade .
I believe this is Malenia inside the flower recuperating giving you the needle and Ancient Smith Dragon Stone as a form of gratitude for returning the UGN and giving you hints of removing a god’s influence and ways of killing of a god. (Almost like supporting us in becoming the Elden lord).
thats a pretty cool perspective
Never thought of it that way. I’ve kinda wondered if she didn’t want to become elden lord and just wanted to find Miquella. I think she knew who we are and at her death she truly recognizes us
@@maleniabladeofmiquella3758 Miquella and Malenia were never interested in becoming Elden Lords. They abandoned the golden order long ago. That is why Miquella wanted to establish his order of Unalloyed Gold and grow his own tree i.e The Haligtree to cure his sister of the rot and in turn Malenia became his blade.
@@pushpitkumar99 I agree with you and it sucks that we have to take her down. She’s probably my favorite character in any game/movie. I hope we see more of her, not as a fight but as an NPC with some sort of ending.
@@maleniabladeofmiquella3758 One can hope we get to see the twins again in a future dlc. It truly sucks because the twins would have likely won the shattering since malenia took Radahn out of the picture and if it wasn't for Mohg abducting miquella.
Greetings. Fighting a giant Scarlet Rot avatar in the form of a scorpion would've been absolutely dope. Do a video on the Frenzied Flame or Godwyn next!
Agreed! I want to do the FF but feel it has been covered really well already
@@SmoughTown The Frenzied Flame has been covered really well already but let's not kid ourselves here we'd all tune in to get your take on the matter.
Those ants were terrifying enough thanks lol
@@kalzero3319 hahaha thanks Kal, I do want to give my thoughts on it one day
I like it, but what about a wasp? Like one of those jewel wasps that does awful stuff to cockroaches?
The expansion and advancement of how many blooms she has had vs scarlet Valkyrie blooms made this so worth it!
Ngl Smoughtown is rivalling Vaati with the effort he puts in each video. Great work. ❤
Thanks Water Bear Though vaati will always be king
Nah smoughtown busssin fr fr, keep it up to usurp him
tbh, Vaati has been producing content so slowly, smoughtown is king for ER lore at the moment
@@Bigbadtyrant1 with all due respect to smoughtown, vaati videos just hit different
That the Outer God of Rot had a scorpion form can also link interestingly to the Scorpion Charms.
"Patterned on a scorpion freshly shed of its exoskeleton," also giving some form of continuous shedding imagery along with that of the rot/butterflies/rebirth.
Also, the one person you could really call an assassin (the people who would use the wcorpion charms) that we fight in the game is Rileigh the Idle, a confessor using scarlet rot bolts and the scorpion's stinger
so a connection between assassins and rot? could just be because of how good it is at killing people but who knows
There’s also a scorpion shield, though I’m not sure it adds much info.
“A standard medium-sized metal shield. Highly reputed for its solid build and reliability.
Emblazoned with a yellow scorpion, a warning of surprise attacks and sudden strikes.”
@@tkri I mean... the rise of scarlet rot was very much a surprise attack with it being considered an "ancient legend" prior to the battle of Aeonia.
I've been listening to alot of soulsbourne lore channels for years and years now and I gotta say your eldenring lore videos are easily the best of the ER lore channels
Thank you Danny! That's awesome to hear
Great video, man! Very interesting and in-depth
I think one very interesting thing to consider is WHICH creatures seem to grow larger and stronger in the places infected by the rot. Insects, crows, wild dogs. All scavengers who eat found corpses, just like the overgrown mushrooms themselves
It seems like maybe when you've become infected with Scarlet Rot, a way to keep from withering away, and to grow stronger even instead, is consuming the bodies of others who have died from rot. Which is a rule that could maybe apply to Radahn as well?
That does make a lot of sense but the bug men never eat corpses, I think it’s a great theory but the dogs and crows both eat corpses idly
Id think it would make sense it is a survivorship bias- that the only the strong can resist the rot, and the small dogs and crows don't exist because they'd succumb to it.
@@cephalonsimaris4395 Well sure but the bugs are of the rot itself, whereas the others are animals that have adapted to survive in the rot.
I don’t think that the scorpion was a physical manifestation of the outer god of rot, but instead was like an apostle chosen to carry out its will and help maintain influence on the world. Maybe like an empyrean or how the game likes to use the word scion. Maybe the outer gods can’t have physical forms and are instead thought of as the concept they represent, so they have to choose other beings to have a link to the world. And then Malenia was the next one chosen.
Just like how Pasudasax or w.e was the Elden Lord before humans would
I've seen this argued before, however after research I do not believe outer gods are just concepts. We know they do have bodies since mohg's trident is capable of wounding the formless mother, and her blood flows from it. As well as the fingerslayer dagger we give ranni being able to harm both fingers, vassals, and outer gods. The outer gods clearly have wills, the formless mother wanting a wound and communing with those who have special blood or want her power. The greater will directly speaks with fingers and give commands, as well as it having sent the elden beast. And outer gods can curse demigods. As well as malenia's master sealing a god of rot, if it was simply an apostle it wouldn't affect the lakes and world around it, nor would the god be called rot itself. And the kindred wouldn't worship it as reverently
@@latel4544 I think what @Step means is that the Outer Gods don't have a physical form _that can fully manifest in The Lands Between (TLB)_ . The Greater Will itself, which has been the presiding god for an unknown stretch of time before the player Tarnished arrives, can only send champions and avatars (Radagon and The Elden Beast) to represent it and protect the Elden Ring.
I like to think of them similarly to the Chaos Gods of Warhammer 40k. Their presences are just so large & they are from entirely other dimensions, so they can't interact corporeally with TLB in person, and have to do it through different mediums. For Shabriri/The Frenzied Flame it's via the yelough Flame of Frenzy and his hosts (like Yura), for The Lord of Rot that's the rot and his avatars and minions etc.
@@DrAlchem01 I mean we don't know fully, that could he the case but it could equally be that the gods don't manifest since it could bring devastation to the world or they have some pact to not directly interfer. It could even be that they have multiple planets they preside over and can't give too much attention to one. Since we know aliens exist and marika technically is one. The Lands Between just seem important to the outer gods since the crucible and many inhabitants are there. The greater will kind of abandon's it's people multiple times and doesn't really have the best policies. It could also be certain means must be met to summon an outer god, like how only certain items and rituals can wound them
I think part of it is a wording issue. Like how Marika is referred to as a god but not an Outer god.
Phenomenal. I’ve been particularly fascinated by this topic and you’ve certainly done it justice, I’m in total agreement about Malenia having yet to experience her 3rd blossoming, I thought as much from the very beginning
One thing about Gowry; I am actually convinced that he may be a projection of the Rot God, in the same sense that some believe that Shabriri is the frenzied flame made manifest
If so then, like Shabriri, Gowry was once a mortal and became something more, it could explain his ability to project himself through the pests, it could be another reason why he sees the valkyries as his daughters, besides that he took them in as children
Lastly, Gowry says that, as he’s grown old, the best thing to do is be forgotten. I feel like this could be the God of Rot speaking, how it has been largely forgotten by the denizens of the Lands Between and that has allowed it to make a resurgence, largely unrestricted with the order of the world in the way that it is
I appreciate that you noticed that the milicent that invades us has different hair, and therefore its her from before she got cured. But, more obvious, she has two arms when she invades us. When we find her she has one.
Yet another truly great video ! Gotta say I was in the third bloom camp but the evidence presented here has changed my mind over it, great stuff really.
I was pretty ambivalent about Malenia up until a few weeks ago, there was this strong notion that "Chad Radahn still fights like a demon while holding the stars in check and learned gravity magic for his horse, he's so great" that made me a bit more partial to him over Malenia regarding who was fighting for the better cause then.
I've since changed my view completely. It has dawned upon me that, in yet another show of Miyazaki's favorite theme (i.e stagnation is bad and the ones who fight for the status quo are the bad guys), Radahn is actually the one who's fighting for the status quo.
The stars guide the fate of the Carian royal family, Radahn included. Iji and Jerren both know of this saying, so we can only assume it's relatively common knowledge, Radahn had to know what he was doing. And yet he literally put his own fate on hold, presumably to try to preserve his status and the order of the world that favors him. Even the tale of Leonard is ever so slightly grimmer when looking at things like that, Radahn will literally move mountains to keep the horse he loves instead of accepting to move forward in his life, even if the horse might be hurting.
The Shattering was a war to decide on the order of the world, so props to Malenia for doing what she had to, otherwise Radahn might have ended up reigning and becoming yet another ruler of a broken stagnant world. Miquella and Malenia would have probably won in the end were it not for Mohg, I really like the story that this whole take on things spins.
I feel the same way, but is Radahn's loyalty to his beloved steed really a bad trait?
@@kimashitawa8113 I mean not necessarily :D It's just ultimately in character for someone who would want things to stay the same for ever.
This. I do not necessarily think Radahn was purposely evil or thought of preserving the established Order for personal gain, tho.
It's my head canon that Radahn was just naive, unable to see the strings, mainly because of how he idolized Godfrey, who is a fundamental figure of the Golden Order.
Chadahn is Chadahn, after all
Kinda fitting that the worst thing about Radahn is him stopping some space rocks for speculative heroic reasons, and Malenia willingly destroyed a country and probably much more if they didn't contain the rot spread.
@@facundovera3227 Like the video said, she probably had no idea that the Scarlet Aeonia would cause the amount of destruction it did.
The narrative of the scarlet rot was one of my favorite threads to unravel throughout my first playthrough. I remember being horrified at the quarantine measures put in place around caelid, and then even more horrified when I found rot enemies hidden away on the altus plateau! I loved the details about people in the capital thinking the rot is a myth, and then the castellan becoming obsessed with malenia as a waifu figure. There's so much in this game that makes the world feel so much realer and more active, with individual people with their own drives and paths, than something like dark souls where there's just you and a handful of other living wanderers in a dead world.
I havent played a lot of it but you rarely see a lot of npcs or what seems to be normal human beings at the same place either so it doesnt feel very much alive too imo
@@alexterieur8813 they’re specifically referring to the fact that the NPC’s in Elden Ring actually have character, ambition and purpose. Whereas in souls people are just hollow…
That’s what makes ER more “alive” than something like DS..
You need only read what the person said to understand 🫡
OMG, yes SmoughTown 😩😭 A hour and a half long about one of my favorite Demi-Gods. Fuck yeah thank you 🙏🏻
Home you enjoy Tomie!
@@SmoughTown I loved it, and you right she’s a Empyrean not a Demi-God like I said.
But my dude, keep up the videos, I can’t get enough. I absolutely love your lore vids.
@@Tomie.. Thanks Tomie! I will do
@Sam Cooper I was thinking ST was gonna reply but the reason why Ranni, Malenia and Miquella are Empyrean is because they came from a single god.
Ranni came from Radagon, and was gifted to Rennala.
Marika had Malenia and Miquella; therefore Empyrean.
@@Tomie.. wait what Ranni was gifted to Rennala !?
as much as I dread to think of what a true Goddess of Rot fight would look like, I'm hoping Malenia does come back, preferably as an NPC. She's such an interesting character, and I'd have loved to have given her a hand in saving her brother
I think she will be a NPC as well as we return her sense of self via Unalloyed Gold Needle with Millicent’s dew on it and she gave us Miquella’s needle and Ancient Smith Dragon Stone for a reason
@@darthacez that's a pretty neat theory, especially with the part of Millicent fulfilling her goal of restoring some of who Malenia was before her battle with Radhan.
If anyone could give us Miquella's Needle it's his twin.
As much as I and everyone else wish that, I don't think it will happen, it's not Fromsoft's style in these games to give concrete conclusion, or even a continuation of characters already shown, especially already been a boss. Although I do believe DLC will have something to do with Miquella at least, since he's mentioned in a lot of occasions but never truly "shown", similar to the Gloam-Eyed Queen.
@@plipplop728 I heavily believe Malenia is going to play a major part in Miquella’s dlc as she is Miquella’s twin and twins are one of major themes in the game and she,along with Miquella has cut content and we know that FR use some of the cut content for DLC
@@darthacez Well, let's wait and see. It irritates me though why The Tarnished not just tell Malenia of Miquella's location, since we already discovered him with Mohg, heck we even already killed the abductor. Why can't we just be friends and devours the Gods togetha with her, lol.
Adding to the semantics of Malenia's second phase not being a "true" goddess, I think it's important to observe that she's really not treated like a goddess the same way that Marika/Radagon/EB is. With how preoccupied the lategame is with the idea of "killing a god," you'd think that, if Malenia was really in her final form, there'd be much more attention given to it. But, when you defeat Gideon after killing Malenia, he'll still tell you that he believes a man cannot kill a god, which wouldn't make much sense if you already did kill one. Plus you don't get the "god slain" text when you kill Malenia.
There's definitely some ambiguity on whether the scarlet aeonia item description was written before the fight with her (which would indicate that her bloom during the fight is her third) or after (which would mean she's yet to become that goddess) but I do think it's worth pointing out that there are other remembrance item descriptions that indicate they were written after the fight with their respective bosses (eg the grafted dragon). That doesn't necessarily mean all the item descriptions are meant to be read as being written after the fights but it does lend credence to the idea that Malenia's only bloomed twice by time you defeat her.
Malenia is in her final form, because we killed her ass lol. But seriously, Gideon doesn't know anything, he still laughs at the idea that Mohg is a threat despite being in service to an Outer God and in possession of Miquella.
I don't know we see 3 "canon" blooms...
1 when fighting Radahan
2 the physical flower before the boss room
And 3 the boss fight phase change
It seems pretty consistent that she is in her final form, whether that is a "true" goddess or not
Y'all really just speculating who knows wtf Malenia would turn into if we didn't kill her
@@sorry1108 You find a clothe set before the flower near the boss room. Makes more sense it was one of milicents sisters.
Marika/Radagon/EB Who is EB?
It's possible all the outer gods represent the dead body of a single God (the one Great?) broken apart, representing different aspects.
Greater will is the hand and its envoys the fingers, separated also into the 3 fingers. Hands represent the ability to create order and organization but also to cause destruction and chaos.
Formless mother is the blood of this single god.
Scarlet rot is either the stomach or decay of the single gods broken form.
Fell God is the face or head, represented by the, well, face.
I'm sure there are correlations to other body parts with other outer gods, but these are a few of the observations I've noticed.
Perhaps we'll meet the outer god of feet in the DLC , perhaps they are connected to Miquella.
Of course Miyazaki would hide the Outer God of feet behind a pay wall 😩
Gloam eye queen is another :D
@@atticratz6128 Miyazaki moment
What's the moon? The butt? There's two moons in Elden Ring
Literally had this thought today. Everyone's been talking how the FF and the GW make up the One Great, but I think the Fracture created all of the Outer Gods. Just a hunch, but I think there might be 8 in total.
Here I am, once again thanking you for your wonderful work, cant wait to experience it over the weekend. Two hour and a half long lore vids in less than two weeks. You absolute madlad. Hope you get a good weekend, with well deserved rest.
Thank you Simon, really appreciate that. Planning to take some time off tonight to watch Stranger Things :)
I like to think that Millicent is Malenias will incarnate, and when you return the needle for her she is able to regain that aspect of herself. It would be so fitting if Millicent’s quest line was Malenias all along. She could still be alive in that bloom after all.
You are correct. Millicent is physical manifestation of Malenia’s sense of self and dignity to resist the rot and with you returning the needle containing her dew - essence of Malenia’s sense of self -to the flower Malenia is now herself again and out of gratitude and compassion she , in the flower, gives you Miquella’s needle and Ancient Smith Dragon Stone.
In other words she’s alive.
Awesome vid as always. Malenia is another subject that I thought I knew most things about. Turns out I was very VERY wrong. Thank you so much for the consistent bangers you put out!
Thank you dude!
The detective work you did here is amazing and appreciated. Especially in the “A Flower Blooms” chapter which answered a lot of questions I had.
Thank you Dizzy, I am happy with this one for sure!
The Scarlet Rot chapter was a brilliant start. I think most people don’t quite get the fundamental thing about the scarlet rot.
It’s not just some ordinary plague/sickness that you just get, suffer and die. Like you said, it’s “an aspect of a Outer God”, it's a curse, a part of this being, perhaps in the middle of a big process of rebirth to change the whole world into its own image.
One just doesn’t die to the Scarlet Rot, but transforms into something else completely.
No wonder they say Malenia resisted “the Call of the Rot”, because it’s almost if the Scarlet Rot itself is alive and aiming to infect all living things.
I also loved the chapter "Malenia, Blade of Miquella”. Smough, you not only did a amazing work speaking of her character, through her actions, the determination and courage despite all the afflictions, but I also could see your admiration for the character during the chapter, and that’s always so nice to see.
Edit: your video is also the only one out there that gives enough attention for the "Order of Rot" and how occult, and at the same time, huge, it actually is within the world of Elden Ring.
Edit2: Just finished the video. Probably my favorite video you have done so far Smough. Besides a tiny little bit of repetition in the "Outer God" chapter, the rest of the video is so good with lots of good observations, connections and exposition, alongside intriguing especulation. The very ending, of a possible Malenia comeback, made me chills a bit haha
Hope she's on our side next time! Thanks a lot for the video Smough!
Thats incredible that you think it's the best one yet! Thank you so much, I am rather pleased with it too. I admire Malenia so much after making this video and genuinely had a blast making it! Thank you as always
One thing to remember is that you get Miquella's Needle only after giving the Unalloyed Gold Needle back to the Aeonian Bloom of Malenia.
I think this indicates that this will give her a second chance, preventing her third blooming, possibly even preventing her rebirth. It may even be that the bloom will die without rebirthing Miquella, putting an end to the Goddess of Rot before she fully forms.
As an interesting tidbit - when you wear Malenia's armor in the Lake of Rot, it loses its golden sheen. It turns dull iron and loses the gold. It somewhat suggests that with enough rot the unalloyed loses its power and physically changes appearance
On top of this being an absolutely incredible and well-researched video can I just say how happy I am as an Irish person that you pronounced Siofra correctly
Thanks so much! Haha made sure to get it right!
The lore content creators for this game are bar none the best I’ve come across. You do so much work on your own and in collaboration with each other. We’re very lucky to have you in the community. Keep up the great work
This confirms what I've always feared. There can be no question or denial any longer: Elden Ring is a secret sequel to Mario Bros. The Kingdom of Rot... Rot = Mushrooms so Kingdom of Rot = Mushroom Kingdom. They had lords and a hierarchical nobility, like Princess Toadstool.
It also explains why the Lake of Rot is so deep and overwhelming. Mario must have been consumed by the rot, so he could no longer clean and maintain the Mushroom Kingdom's Pipe drainage system, causing it to clog and overflow. The result is as inevitable as it is tragic.
Marika/Radigan = Bowser/Bowsette
When you were talking about a physical manifestation of a god, I'd like to add in that seemingly the "Outer gods" are rarely referred to as just "gods", I think whenever a god is mentioned I feel it is always just a conduit of their will in the world (Lands Between or else). We can see this for instance with Marika/Radagon, as they are referred to as a god, but we also know that they serve (or were supposed to serve) the Greater Will, which presumably is an Outer god. I believe this also goes for "Shabriri" and the God of Fell. I always got the impression from listening to lore and playing the game, that whenever an Empyrean is born, there is a struggle between the Outer gods to claim it. This may also be a reason why the "Grace" is guiding us to kill them. It may also suggest that Ranni potentially was overtaken by a different Outer god and therefore destroyed her Two Fingers (representative of the Greater Will) and even went so far as to burn her original body. This struggle with original bodies is the same for Malenia and Miquella. As they were on an excessive mission to find a way to stop the influence of the other Outer gods (or any). One way that Miquella found was the "needle", but the Hailgtree was presumably meant as a more permanent solution. This theory also explains why Mohg stole Miquella, because he was the only Empyrean left with a body that could be used, even though it seems that he was inhabited by the god of slumber (not really sure here) and I believe Mohg was trying his utmost to change him to inhabit his goddess of blood.
TL;DR: Outer gods and gods are not synonymous.
I listen to these driving to work all over the country. Absolutely superb work. Well done and keep it up. 💪👍
That's amazing Darlo! Thank you so much
I do the same. I drive for about 8 hours a day and these videos make my work days SO much better! Praise the Lore!
@@WilliamMelton617 Hell yeah! That's amazing to hear
@@SmoughTown omg and you reply to people to boot! Keep doing what you're doing man 😁
@@WilliamMelton617 Of course my dude your support means the world
1h26 min of my fav character in the game? Letsgooooo
Hope you approve!
Hell yes
thanks for taking your time to do this, i tried to understand something about the general lore of elden ring but it is all so hard to put together during a play through it's painful.
when i fought Malenia and all the other Demigods, the mobs and looked at the overall world i constantly asked myself questions that went unanswered.
Little rant: i get that the game is interesting cause it's cryptic and misterious but goddamn
I’m glad you enjoyed it my friend
really amazing video, it's always nice to listen to someone who respects and admires malenia as much as she deserves :) great job!!!
Thanks Goldie. Shes genuinely one of the most courageous characters in the game!
I remember watching your lore videos back when you were doing dark souls vids, it is absolutely awesome that you’ve become one of THE fromsoft lore analysts. Great stuff!!
Really appreciate that long time support Brennan! We have come a long way
I really really hope the DLC involves more lore about the Scarlet Rot. It’s such a well thought out concept and the stories involving it are some of the most touching in the game. Melania is a character I found myself looking up to, especially after Gowry’s questline. In fact, it’s 100% the reason I gave up on fighting her after 60 attempts. No other reason, i just didn’t want to kill her is all
I just love the name Maleigh Marais. Marais is French for "swamp" and Maleigh conjures up words like Malinger or Malaise. Very fitting for a Swamp Simp!
54:10 I don't think the giant dogs and crows the Redmanes are fighting actually have anything to do with the influence of the Scarlet Rot, as they can also be found on the Mountaintops of the Giants. Due to the additional presence of the gigantic skeletons in both areas, I'd say that both the skeletons and giant animals are there because Caelid is, in one way or another, connected to the Mountaintops. Both places are also closer than most people realize, making up the tips on the "C" shape of the landmass of the Lands Between.
I think its just because the halligtree is in the mountaintops, and therefore exposed to the rot itself. Even Mohg's palace is just below Caelid, so it's no surprise that the rot infect the place too. What is curious tho is that if there's giant crows in mohgwyn palace, the dogs are on normal forms. So i think the sanguine ppl just took some of the crows from below to defend the palace.
I found this really interesting, although I've delved into a lot of lore and knew at least 85% of this, the precise and eloquent speech really made it an interesting watch.
Also people have thought outer gods are completely non physical and only concepts incarnate, but I'd argue there are multiple instances that disprove this. They seem closer to bloodborne old ones but more powerful and influential
Thanks La Tel - appreciate your kind words. And indeed we do need to revisit our theories on Outer-Gods; I think many take alot of what we know from the Formless mother...who is just that formless as if it is a characteristic that separates her from her kin.
@@SmoughTown Do you think formless could be a reference to appearance like formless oedon? After all when skills pierce her when only see the blood come from an invisible gash. And indeed her formlessness must be different from other outer gods, otherwise I'd be strange to name her after something they all have. And her being the mother of truth is equally as interesting
It could be possible that the talk of Melinia becoming a “true” goddess means her acceptance of her destiny and that her blooming refers to moments where she did accept it momentarily as a means to an end.
Do you realize how excited I got seeing the notification for this video. It's just what I needed to listen to while working 👌
That's amazing Mia! I hope work goes well
My black soul fluttered with joy when you mentioned Nurgle in the beginning. 💚
Grandfather
@@SmoughTown He loves us and showers us with his festering gifts. 💚
I heavily believe that Malenia is going to be a NPC/an ally in the DLC as returned her sense of self via Unalloyed Gold Needle with Millicent’s dew (essence of Millicent containing Malenia’s sense of self). Malenia,inside the flower, gives you Miquella’s needle and Ancient Smith Dragon Stone as a form of gratitude (a trade) for returning her sense of self and if you read the descriptions she is giving you hints how to remove a god’s influence and kill one.
And if possible, I theorize that she’ll have Millicent’s memories of her journey and the Tarnished.
That's too much happiness and continuation for a Fromsoft game tho lol. I strongly believe something like that ain't gonna happen, but at least something to do with Miquella, just not as jolly as you described.
@@plipplop728 It might happen but the ending might be bittersweet and plus we may get the cut Age of Abundance ending.
Plus (possibly due to the influence of GRRM) this game focuses on hope and the Will to do good and change things for the better unlike the Dark Souls trilogy
One thing I'd like to note is that although Siofra does mean "Fairy", Ainsel is also the name of a fairy in a popular fairy tale. In the Ainsel fairy tale:
A mother is trying to get her young son to get to bed, but he says he wants to stay up. She says fine, just be careful the Fairy Mother doesn't steal you away. She goes to sleep. A small fairy child comes down the chimney, introduces herself to the son as "Ainsel" (which means "my own self"). She asks his name. He says "Just my own self too" (to me, he seems unsure he should reveal his real name to this strange fairy child). After playing a while, the fire grows dim, the son goes to stoke the fire, then a small amber accidentally lands on the fairy girls foot and she scream. The old Mother Fairy's voice is heard through the chimney "What happened? Who hurt you?" The fairy child says "It was just my own self too!" The old Mother Fairy says "well if you hurt your own self, don't be so loud about it!" She then reaches her arm down the chimney and whisks the fairy child back home. The son goes to sleep and is terrified at what he saw. Scared he may actually be abducted through the chimney the next time, he now does what his mother tells him to do, and goes to sleep on time.
I have no idea how this fairy tale connects to anything in Elden Ring, tbh, just thought I'd share what I just discovered online.
There's something here, I know it
Seems like it may represent Malenia's fight to keep control of her own self, only to end up getting pulled into the chimney after all xD
I think it’s worth noting that the Blind Swords man saved her life. Scarlet rot is stated to decay the body but his fighting style is what counters scarlet rot. Seeing as though her Great rune states that it allows you to heal from the life force of others. Teaching her from birth, his techniques allowed her to keep her body full of life to off set the constant decay until her brother could develop the alloy. This nameless figure is single handedly responsible for her life and ascension
I think even if malenia rotted she wouldve just ended up in the same dormant flower state, and since i dont think shes dead currently, i think she'd just be alive but a shadow of what she once was, a vessel of the rot
Absolutely love and tremendously enjoy your videos! They are a great listen and insightful look at the game's lore. Your videos are in no way long. In fact I really wish they were longer, which speaks to the quality of your writing and presentation. Best of luck to you and really looking forward to more content from you and hope you will be around once the DLC's are released.
Thank you Tariq, i'm humbled! Yeh this is what I do full time now so 100% plan to be here for that don't worry!
Malenia is my favorite boss of all time
Nice to see a video on her !
Your content is excellent! You have such great insight into the lore and a very helpful way of piecing everything together so it makes sense
Thank you Daniel!
This was amazing. I never thought I would watch an hour+ long video on video game lore but I did and I plan to watch anything else this creator makes. Great content, amazing video! Thanks for the entertainment and insight.
Thanks Matt! Really happy to hear you will be watching the next one!
"nobody could stop them from loving each other"
mohg: "and i took that personally..."
The true tragedy of Malenia’s story:
She never got to learn who Dafeet was 😢
Edit: on a serious note I love Malenia! My favorite character in soulsborne. And I definitely agree with you conclusion after finishing the video, who’s ready for Malenia phase 4?
made me laugh aloud 👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿
You know, a lot of the lore in Elden Ring makes me wonder why we're being attacked by all these people.
The Redmane soldiers are a perfect example. Assuming they haven't lost their minds, we could potentially be on the same side. I guess everyone is just Gracist in the Lands Between.
Yeah tbh that is what makes this feel like a video game more than it should. Everyone attacks you on sight because it's a video game and that's what enemies do
Most attack you as they have gone crazy because they cannot die thats why most the enemys are old and shrivelled
@@namesarehard9276 Thanks, Marika, you selfish harpy
My guys forgetting the lore
If you kill the sage, he turns into a pest and says that it doesn't matter - because there are countless more pests to inhabit. I think he's the embodiment of the scarlet blight who is trying to create the perfect vessel for himself.
So basically, what you're saying is that in order to stop the encroachment of the Scarlet Rot, we need to become the Lord of the Frenzied Flame and burn it all away and start over from scratch, right? Right.
I believe that the scarlet flower before malenia's fight is her 1st bloom (accidentally) as how would she know how to use the flower against radahn and why would she randomly just bloom again, while unconscious, after arriving at the haligtree, after her flight with radahn.
Actually I have a counter to what happened in Radahn’s fight with Malenia. I think Malenia exploded with scarlot rot but even so the effort and damage she took still was too much for her and she passed out. What I think happens is what we see in the very first Elden Ring trailer where Radahn is stabbed by a cleanrot knight with a spear, and this could very well be Finlay. Radahn gets impaled and Finlay manages to escape with Malenia while Radahn is left to stare up at the sky as Scarlot Rot over takes him.
Another detail I like if in the story trailer you see him bend over to take the Flower’s blast for his horse.
Woke up, waited about 7 minutes and now I get lore, best day ever
two new video more then an hour long within two weeks ? Man your on a roll !!
Thanks buddy! Trying to pick up the pace
something i didn't notice mentioned is that like the blind swordsman who taught her, malenia is also blind. i suppose everyone knows malenia is blind but perhaps it additionally explains the affinity between her and her teacher.
I think the sealing of Destined Death caused a lot of folk to seek new ways to die. It's clear that this is what was really keeping the Age of the Erdtree going. The undead curse spreading, the Scarlet Rot and the Dung Eater's curse all wanted a solution. They are all about death and rebirth. I wonder how things would be if Destined Death were never sealed to begin with.
I'm thinking the same thing. Malenia born with Scarlet Rot was the reaction of 2 fingers to Marika hiding the rune of Death, since 2 fingers had no way of reaching the rune in a place said to be beyond the influence of outer gods. Scarlet Rot is just the way to forcefully change the cycle, which Marika tried to stop.
Actually I was wrong, it's not reaction of 2 fingers, now I think that it's more related to 3 fingers.
@@sergeysmyshlyaev9716 Malenia's Two Fingers are dead at the top of the isolated tower. As Morgott states: all the demigods and empyreans are traitors. Malenia and Miquella were opposed to the Golden Order, and I doubt either were in favour of the Frenzied Flame. I think Miquella was trying to create something new and different.
A distinction needs to be made between the bloom of aeonia swamp and the one in the actual Malenia boss fight in terms of their individual magnitude, the first one is the equivalent of an atomic bomb wrecking Caelid while the latter is more of a fart directed toward a lowly tarnished
Well... them lowly tarnished are easy to underestimate. Probably thought she didn't need to bloom that hard... it's also less... personal? Something about what happens to Caelid feels like REAL spite... I feel like Melania needed Radahn to do something so that Miquella and she could both cure her and keep the haligtree growing, he said 'no' and for that she REALLY let him have it.
Your insight is amazing, and has helped me put together a lot of things and theories, so thank you for all the hard work you've done, and I hope you keep going! As a side note, you're theory on how the Valkyries will rise from a bloom like Malenia does in her second phase makes me wonder about the Aeonia left behond afterwards and the wording of Scarlet Aeonia, it may be a hint at dlc that's been missed by the vast majority.
These long lore videos are amazing. They cover so much in much greater detail compared to others.
Thanks Erik, really glad you enjoy them
I always thought that Radahn kept fighting after the bloom, and was sent into a battle frenzy. Thats why he's pierced with so many spears as he assailed the cleanrot knights as they carried away Malenia.
I was under the impression that the weapons come from past festivals, although both could be true
@@lr- that makes sense but you can actually see some of the spears in the trailor cutscene between him and malenia.
@@waypastthenorm8629 The trailer also shows them in the wrong place so... the trailer isn't like... fantastically indicative of what actually happened. The trailer seems to me to be something more like... the 'mythicized' idea of what went down.
@Lena Johnson huh I really didn't expect to get a reply to this. I dont think even fromsoftware knows the exact cannon details of how that battle went down so we can't ever confirm our interpretations.
@@waypastthenorm8629 I find it to be the case with a lot of the imagery we get of things in the game where the imagery presented in cutscenes, paintings etc. don't completely match with the information we uncover from item descriptions and npc's to the extent that I feel much of it is intended to be murky as if it were 'in universe mythology'
Great video! Very easy to follow… although I love Malenia as a boss her words haunt me over and over and over.. “I am Malenia, blade of Miquella.” I was stuck on her for a while
Mushrooms. It’s all mushrooms
So many of the old lore channels I used to love are gone but I am glad I have found your channel! Keeping the torch burning well
Another fantastic video with such attention to detail and beautifully put together.
This might have already been pointed out; but one of the neutral poses of the “Pests” does strongly resembles a scorpion with the Pests tail arching over their body. This can be seen by some of them in Caelid. A nice nod to the Goddess.
Just want to add to the Blue Dancer part to those who don't know, that his sword is in the game - the Flowing Curved Sword. Would've been cool to have its move set showed in there:) It's cool to see a bit of the fighting style of the Blue Dancer in the strong attack!
Item description:
"Legends speak of a master of the sword garbed in blue, and his curved blade that was patterned after flowing water.
Strong attack unleashes a series of strikes akin to a dance, offering a glimpse into the legend."
i think the biggest piece of evidence that malenia hasn't died her final death is her remembrance. every other remembrance we get uses past tense --- "was" "they were" --- but malenia's doesn't, instead it uses "miquella and malenia are..." "...they are both..."
maybe i'm reading into it a little too hard, but i really hope we get expansions on both malenia and miquella. they're by far my favorite characters in soulsborne and they deserve the spotlight
You found a great catch friend!
Fire Giant is also a exception though.
Thank you once again for delivering us another great Elden Ring lore video!
It's my privilege. Thank you so much for the support
Been waiting on anew vid for a min, thank you for all the work you put into these they are fantastic.!
I really hope you enjoy Gabriel!
so pretty much regardless of whatever ending we choose, the Lands Between being taken over by Rot is inevitably the canon ending.
It's taken all of Caelid, The haligtree is infested, and there's a whole lake under Liurnia.
it's servants spread it and it seems like it they are actively doing so in the Caelid wilds. It seems as if the rot is spreading towards Limgrave from a centralized location ( swamp of Aoenia)
and the only one capable of staving it off in an effective manner is Miquella but he's only managed this with a person, how will he protect the physical landscape and it's inhabitants from the rot spreading? Plus he's pretty much out of commission at the moment for who knows how long.
so in short, it's not even a matter of "if"; it's just a matter of "when" and "how long before it does".
Another fantastic video, doing amazing work with these, so in depth. Can't wait for DLC, hopefully there will be some with the twins, their story really needs further exploration.
Thanks so much Kyle, really appreciate that
randomly found your channel and have been watching these as i am in the respective persons zone. really adds to the immertion
I just… these two. I love these two characters the most, alongside Alexander and Gold Mask. In bodies flawed, they found and supported one another. Instead of devotion to an outer god, they devoted themselves to each other. To protect and support one another, so they may thrive, it’s just genuinely one of the more sweet stories of this game, so the fact that Mohg severed this by kidnapping Miquella, stealing him away… it makes me somewhat less sympathetic to him. While Mohg has been mistreated by society, he has mistreated another, a martyr for his own goals, and all the while defiling the young Miquella, only to not attain his twisted goals. I sympathize with his desire for belonging, but not for his actions. Not the actions of someone desperate, but the actions of a manipulative person.
Mohg is additionally ALSO a Twin so he ought to have recognized the significance of the sin he was comiting. in fairness however. Mohg and 'he who shall not be named but whom but many a foolish ambition to rest' were also twins... whose lives may have actually been significantly worse even than Melania and Miquella's! The Empyrean twins were heralded as the future despite their flaws. The Omens twins however were shut away, hidden and imprisoned... nevertheless I can't but think the pairs of twins must have found some kind of common ground in their suffering and communicated some, perhaps even going so far as to extend an offer to come join them at the Halligtree? For Mohg to have become as smitten with Miquella as he did, indicates to me that Miquella showed him some kindness or other that affected the bloody old Omen.
@@lenajohnson6179 agreed. If the Omen Twins were allowed a bit of kindness, a bit of a chance to be the powerful and wise figures they were meant to be, all the demigod children could’ve been a powerful force for good, for the betterment of the Lands Between. The acceptance of flaws, the celebration of them, showing that Omens are not beasts, they are people, with the capability of housing and controlling any wild anger or bloodlust that may shine forth. It makes me kind of sad, because instead of trying to aid the Omens in controlling any more animalistic natures they house, allowing them to flourish, maybe even finding a treatment for their constantly growing horns, they were locked away, had primary aspects of them cut away, until they were nothing.
Also, I don’t think Mohg loves Miquella in a romantic way; I think he sees Miquella more as a means to an end, a way to become the consort of a very powerful, and very wise, god like Miquella. It’s what a lot of royals did back in the day; marry for power, not love.
This is exactly what I needed in my morning. As always, thank you. 👊
Good morning! Hope you enjoy
I find Malenia’s story sad and moving. Millicent‘s thread in particular. I always feel guilty when I invade the Haligtree during a play through. Like, why am I bothering Malenia? But, you know, loot and all.
I was so excited for you to cover that topic! Thank you so much as always for all the work you put in your content!!
Insightful as always, sick video man keep it up :D can't wait for the next one
Thank you dude! Already working on the next one
Love listening to these while wandering the lands between 🤟
Enjoy fellow tarnished
I'm doing the same on Joe Rogan's podcasts, now these lore hunters in TH-cam are my favourite now. this dude rocks, also, to support this dude's channel, don't skip an ad if there's one shows up it's a sign of supporting his channel.
Butterflies make sense, considering a lot of species feed on carrion as well.
A thing that I personally adore regarding the use of butterflies is how they are so intrinsically linked to Malenia. Starting as caterpillars, pupating then emerging. The buds to me look like a cocoon state in which she has to undergo this stage 3 times to emerge as a "true God."
Not only that, but the butterfly being linked to death due to they're natural, if gruesome, food source being blood and decayed flesh. I dunno, I just dig it! ~
I struggle to link her directly to the suggested corporeal Scorpion form of the original God of Rot, but there is the potential that they could be linked to many different beings and the Scorpion is just one epithet.
I think you completely forgot to mention the fact Gowry actually not a human, but one of these pest-creatures. If you kill him, he transform into his actual form just like Zorayas transform into her serpent form.
I know I might be late but the fact that Malenia might still be in the middle of her final transformation is even suggested by Millicent questline - Gowry wants us to kill Milicent at the end of her journey to make her into valkyrie. It's a bit ironic but I think killing Malenia is actually progressing the things for the worse, just like her almost close defeat by Radahn, we trigger the strongest emotional reaction out of her by defeating her. Hell maybe even her insisting on being undefeated is related to the fact that if she falls, she will give up to scarlet rot more, I don't see that she couldn't know this with her brothers huge knowledge at her side. And it all connects to the death and rebirth. Scarlet rot wants Malenia to die to let her enter a new form that it can control.
From Software connecting dots like this will never stop impressing me I think, even if some of it may be more a speculation than intentional infornation.