I'm no historian, but I believe Romulus's exact words to Remus when killing him were "You were my brother Remus! I loved you!" followed shortly thereafter by "I have the High Ground!" when ascending one of the hills Rome was founded on. Trust me on this one, that famous exchange was documented and verified by the same sources that tell us the brothers were raised by wolves. In other words, it is extremely trustworthy.
Rome was basically one of those Barbarian camps in a game of Civ, that decided it wanted to expand and get nicer infrastructure and thus became an actual faction. XD
Also its not mentioned in the video but in the myth the reason they had to “capture” women was because the rest of italy thought of the Romans as repulsive, and rejected all their marriage alliances. I’ve also seen it suggested that just like how Romulus killed Remus was Romans trying to understand their constant civil wars, their violent seizure of outsider women was their way of understanding Romes need for violent expansion, and all the wars that come with it. (Like the war with the sabines immediately after they captured their women in the original story)
I wish that were most of human history as well, i mean kinda is but even moreso I can imagine using these meme version of Rome to make a pretty cool New society
You could go further. After the fall of the Western Empire you could flip-flop between talking about Constantinople and the HRE, and after Constantinople falls you can have a small diatribe about the fallout that caused, and then continue on along the HRE up until Napoleon forces it to dissolve.
Crafty Bastards the Rise Yada yada yada Crafty Bastards the Fall Seriously, Constantinople fell because a crafty Hungarian convinced a crafty Ottoman to buy his cannons. ⟨--- You can't make this stuff up.
Rome fell when Napoleon dismantled the empire in 1804 ... I say that in jest, but with the 'crafty bastards' perspective, maybe there is more 'Rome' in the 'Holy Roman Empire' than people normally attribute it to.
It's funny even some Romans thought the wolf story was silly. Livy mentions that some people thought the "wolf" was actually just a euphemism for the wife of the shepherd that adopted the twins, as she was also a courtesan (the feminine version of the word wolf in Latin "lupa" was used as a slang term for a courtesan/prostitute)
The "river basket infant" story is so old they probably got it from The Bible (cf. Moses), but even that book got it from earlier stories (cf. Sargon of Akkad).
@@Ishkur23 Probably the other way around. Since story of Romulus and Remus' story was officialized in 300s BCE. The Bible didn't came around until ~100-300 A.D.
@@fbiuzz The writing of the of the Old testament began in the 8th to 6th century BCE, only the New testament was written in the 1-300's AD. Moses as the child in a river basket is in the old testament
Of course, the wolf is more accurately the Roman version of the primordial cow from Proto-Indo-European mythology. Auðumbla from Germanic myth serves the same role, as does Gavaevodata from Zoroastrianism.
The idea that Ceasar Augustus just told Virgil to cobble together all the myths and make it one story is the first recorded instance of “Arc Welding” in fictional history.
Not the first one by a long shot. Hesiod's Theogony (c. 730-700 BC) is the earliest one I know of, but there are probably older ones still. Guy just went around Greece writing local stories and then tried to make sense of all.
@@Dramon8888 That might not be what he's talking about. As far as I'm aware though, the Grimm's went around listening to and recording these tales from various areas. So for each of the stories they codified they had choose between a) Pick one version or b) Cobble together bits from each and try to make it work. And they were (or at least one of them was) very interested in how these stories evolved & changed over time and tried to trace disparate versions back in time to find an 'original' (Red talks a bit about this process in some of her vids).
*Fun fact:* Even though most generals and Emperors celebrated their triumphs mounted on a splendid golden chariot, Romulus made all his triumphal parades simply on foot. He certainly deserved the title of "First Among Equals"
Rhea Silvia being a Vestal Virgin is what does it for me. The Vestal Virgins as what the Romans saw at that time weren’t established until a few kings later. There may have been a proto-order that became the Vestal Virgins or at least influenced how they were structured and ran, but no actual “Vestal Virgins” at that time.
“Unlike Rhea Silvia we can’t all be slammed by the god of war” almost made me do a spit take, Blue always has the wildest lines and I am never prepared
The first portion of Mary Beard's SPQR does a very good job of presenting the evidence about the pre-classical Rome we know of, including a proto-latin inscription that was stored deep under the forum
Gotta agree with Blue on the dubiously long reign of the Roman kings. 7 consecutive thirty five year long reigns without any sudden deaths due to illness or assassination is even more of a stretch than two babies getting raised by a wolf.
Romulus: “Citizens of the newly founded city of Rome. After many efforts and sacrifices, we have managed to definitively establish ourselves in the Peninsula. Therefore, there is something important that I want to announce to all of you... Although our relationship with neighboring peoples may not be completely friendly, we shall never cry out for war. We are people of peace and we do not long to make any conquests. As long as we have breath left in our bodies, my brother and I shall govern defending equality, justice and respect for other peoples and religions. And now, my beloved brother Remus has a few words to share with us. We listen, brother" Remus: "According to our latest observations, the female population of the city is too small for the birth rate to be maintained..." Romulus: *Doom music kicks in*
As a wise man has often said: "Myths are not stories that are untrue, but legends which do not fit nearly into historical record, that serves as the foundation of a culture."
That's not a wise quote that rolls of the toung very well. Edit: Alright, let me try and summarize this. "There's a hidden truth in every myth, but every legend are the foundation of a culture" K, doesn't roll that much better, but it's shorter
That thing about the long reigns of those first seven rulers reminds me of how people in the Old Testament were like 800 years old to make the timeline work. The writers were contemporaneous to the dedication of the Second Temple and wanted people to know that event was important so they declared it to be exactly 4000 years after the Creation, and reworked the chronology to fit.
It’s understood that its less the gods were literally there and more like they inhabited that place spiritually, sort of like the idea where spiritually Christianity’s one god can be present in a worship to him or smth
Reminds of that quote I can barely remember and dont feel like looking up. It goes “all empires have an original atrocity they spend their lifetime trying to justify”
I still want a History Makers: Livy video. Livy gets a lot of ribbing here for the earliest sections of his work, but in his defense he was working with what he had--which were, by his own admission, contradictory and often ridiculous legends--not making up new stuff. The rest of his stuff has some decent reporting, albeit done in a narrative style. He was MILES better at being a historian than Herodotus IMHO.
From what I comprehend, Herodotus was more of what we would call an anthropologist today, a term which would have been synonymous with "historian" at the time. He recorded what people believed without judging if it could be true or not, it was enough that the source either felt it was true or it was part of their culture's compendium of legends.
@ckl9390 What I appreciate most about Livy is that he expressly tells you when something is accepted legend that he couldn't find evidence to back up, which is a lot more than most of his contemporaries and predecessors were willing to do.
This has reminded me, I'd love to see your and/or Red's take on Geoffrey of Monmouth as a History Maker or his History of the Kings of Britain as a myth. The way he tries to tie the pre-Roman Britons into the Aeneid and by extension Troy and uses very dubious sources like his friend the Bishop of Lincoln's totally real ancient book of Welsh history (you haven't seen it, it goes to a different school) all to show that the real Britons were the friends we made along the way (i.e. the Normans) makes it a really interesting bit of historicised mythology.
I’d say Romulus murder of Remus is two fold Romes original Sin destined to be replayed in greater and greater civil wars. But what you glossed over is Remus crossed Romulus’s Pomerium. The walls of his city, which by laws set by the gods themselves crossing especially armed like Remus was is a death sentence. So it also sets the precedence of Rome always “Defending” itself in all wars, that legally it was ok for Romulus to kill his brother cause he was just defending himself something Rome would justify they were doing from London to Damascus.
Romulus and Remus... suffice to say that their story is much, _much_ older than Rome, and killing the character that, in that part of the italic peninsula, became "Remus," is what allowed the world and humanity to be created.
@@theanimeunderworld8338great comment but why write it in this specific comment as a reply that's irrelevant to it and not on the main comment section? Edit:Just saw this very same comment in the main comment section but still responding to this random guy that his comment was irrelevant to your reply was still unnecessary
Love this, and while only briefly touched on I am glad you made a point that Rome really took good ideas from anyone they came across. It’s honestly one of the best things about Rome.
Regarding Remus, it's worth remembering that his name comes from the same root as _Ymir,_ the Jotunn that Veni, Ve, and Odin killed, and whose body they used to create the world as we know it. It wasn't an original sin of Rome, it was a _sacrifice,_ and the founding of the city by Romulus and Remus comes from the same place as the stories of the creation of the world.
The kings of Rome essentially were just a binary spectrum of goodness. King 1 would be the best ruler, then king 2 would succeed them and begin to chew on babies and kill everyone. All while ruling for around 35 years each, a feat only 10 English monarchs could do in over 1300 years. Romulus also invented the calendar! Bar the narcissism of July and August and all of January and February. He might as well be Cain as well with that bit at the end about Rome's bloodlust. Also, a shame you didn't mention Tullus Hostilius and the fact he is literally just naming a villain after the fact they are evil.
Romulus and Remus... suffice to say that their story is much, _much_ older than Rome, and killing the character that, in that part of the italic peninsula, became "Remus," is what allowed the world and humanity to be created.
@@blarg2429 Comparative mythology + Archeology + Linguistics. Basically, there were a bunch of people with horses roughly around modern Ukraine, and they migrated/their culture migrated to nearly all of Europe, Persia, and Northern India. These people are known as the proto-Indo-Europeans, and their myths split off and diverged and picked up new aspects and formed into Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, as well as the mythologies of the Greeks, Italics, Slavs, Celts, Germani, et cetera. Red's Mythology videos sometimes touch on them.
Best channel on TH-cam consistently, it often feels like I've subscribed to two different channels and the content is equally amazing. Thank you for clear passionate work you do it's very entertaining.
I recently listened to an episode from Tides of History about the foundation of Roman Republic, and it seems that not even the 509 BC start date of the Republic is necessarily accurate. The "official" lists of consuls technically go back that far, but there is a large amount of name repetition on the early parts of the list, perhaps suggesting that those were also filled in later to make the Republic look like it sprung out fully formed following the fall of Tarquinius Superbus (the Gallic sack probably didn't help either). There is also evidence to suggest that the folks who led the overthrow of Superbus were his cousins, indicating that 509 BC was, in real time, probably just another footnote in an Etruscan dynastic struggle for control of Rome
509 is almost certainly not the actual date the republic was founded. 508 was the year that the Athenian established their democracy and the Romans probably just wanted to say they did it first.
@@leemarshall348 you don't think those cunning greeks might have had the same idea? Except even more cunningly, placing it year after so it looked like someone was trying to one up them
Adaptability from circumstances (making the best of the Fall of Troy): check Surprisingly high levels of acceptance of foreign cultures and social mobility (accepting Italian bandits and riffraff): check Civil conflict (Romulus' fratricide): check Tyrant slaying (Overthrowing Tarquinius Superbus): check Yup, that's Rome for ya. The Romans seemed to have understood their culture shockingly well and could make up an origin story as believable as any real historical record.
Funnily enough there's an earlier version of the Romulus and Remus myth in which Romulus does not kill Remus. Rather, Remus is killed by Celer, the Commander-in-Chief of the city, because the latter was commanded by Romulus to kill anyone who did not enter Rome by the place designated as the entrance - which he declared was the crime of sacrilege and treason. Upon being informed, Romulus essentially says "Such is the fate of anyone who transgresses Rome's laws." This version paints the most noble aspect of the Roman identity, which revered Stoicism, Piety, and Law & Order. Not even the king's brother was above the laws of Rome, and suffered the penalty which anyone else will suffer should they transgress Rome's walls. The fratricide telling seems to be the product of the Roman civil wars, rather than an original sin of the nation.
is it me or does @00:11 bring to mind that one scene from Disney's Hercules where the townsfolk are talking about all the disasters Thebes has been having?
2:35 Speaking of the Rapture of the Sabines, there's a sword and sandal film about that event called "Romulus and the Sabines", in which the founder of the City is played by no other than Roger Moore. It's a pretty curious film, to be honest
This was quite possibly your best video. Even knowing all the information in here already I loved the humor and wit in this telling of the story. This is why I rewatch y’all videos.
Remus: "How was your visit to the Oracle of Delphi, brother? Did you see the future of our newly created city?" Romulus: "Well, according to what the oracle told me, our city will expand, not only beyond the Seven Hills and the other tribes, but it will also occupy the entire peninsula and even vast territories that we hardly know about now. Each new enemy that challenges the city will be more terrible and foreign than the previous one, but in the end they will all bite the dust. Then, a kind of government called "Imperi" or something like that will be formed, and will unify all the different cultures and religions of the world, although ours will be the most important. Also, the vast majority of the city's rulers will be pretty phony types: one who sleeps with his three sisters and makes his horse second in command, a fat man who believes himself an artist and burns the whole city down just to find inspiration, one who believes he is Hercules, another who literally wants to become a woman, a boy who only thinks about feeding pigeons, etc. Logically, the government will gradually decline, to the point of being divided into two and replacing the gods who have watched over us for countless generations by an executed carpenter from the farthest corner of the world that doesn't even exist yet. Finally, the part of the Empire in which our city is located will fall, not to mention that the last ruler will have the same name as me" Remus: "..." Romulus: "..." Remus: "...We definitely should have just raised pigs for the rest of our lifes" Romulus: "Yep"
01:33 said interruption is pretty important if you consider WHO was its source. Aeneas, forefather of Rome, ended up in an affair with none other then Dido, the queen of Carthage, who ended up killing herself out of sadness when he left. This is supposed to foreshadow the rivalry between the two cities. Dido distracts Aeneas and thus prevents him from fulfilling his duty. When she dies in the end, this is supposed to symbolize the seed of discontent being sown between said civilizations. Also, I love the fact that the clash between Romulus and Remus is about the latter of the two fronting his brother for not building the city wall high enough, which he then demonstrates by simply jumping over it. This is some straight-up anime shit.
@@viniciuscristovao6031 Googled it because I was wondering if I just misremembered, and apparently both versions do exist. But while I only did some quick googling, some of the results make me think that both versions are actually based on the same Latin source, and different summaries just focus on different aspects of it. It's been a while since I read it (was in my Highschool Latin class), so I don't recall it perfectly anymore.
Great video! And this is from someone that comes to osp mostly because of Red's videos about tropes and myths. I really liked the analysis of the myth to better understand what the Romans wanted to say about themselves
For those who wonder about what happened to King Romulus after the founding of the city, it is believed he disappeared forever when he was carried away by a whirlwind during a celebration on the Campus Martius. It is said that the tornado was sent by Jupiter to transport Romulus directly to Heaven, so the King will become a God without first dying. I just hope that the man who founded the eternal city who conquered the world is still living happily with the gods, playing war with Mars and sleeping on the huge breasts of Venus for all eternity 🥲
Nah. After kidnapping a bunch of “wives”, he got drunk and fell into the river & drowned. “Shit, bro, now what?” “What are you on about?” “Romulus. He tripped over that rock and fell into the river! Now he’s dead!” “No he’s not.” “Feck, bro, I just saw it!” “No you didn’t.” “Then what did I feckin’ see then, big-brain?” “He was taken up to the gods by a tornado.” “What the feck is that?” “Don’t you understand plain Latin? It’s the past participle of ‘tunare’, to thunder.” “He thundered and then he went to heaven?” “Yes.” “That does explain why it’s so whiffy. What was he eating before he thundered his way into heaven?” “Cheap wine, little fish soaked in olive oil, cheese, and lots of garlic, same as the rest of us.” “… Can… can we just go north a bit and join the Gauls? They have beer and roast wild boar.” “Yeah, barbecue does sound better. Let’s go.”
This is a great video. I took Latin in high school and enjoyed watching your videos to learn even more about the history and mythology. It's interesting how Virgil's Aeneid on one hand tries to give a odyssey styled mythological history on Rome's origin while on the other hand, sneakily making fun of the emperor of the time without him figuring it out.
Maybe the 7 kings were meant to be dynasties, which would make sense due to the span of tima and love for pointy stick playing, but is literally a top of the head hypothesis
I had way more fun with this than I expected to. I mean I love the way Blue does history anyhow but he was channeling some Red energy this time and the result was delightful.
Blue quickly recaps Roman literature & mythology before Red notices and commissions Cleo to wipe all of our memories… never thought I’d see the-wait what was that again?
I am here , once again , to spread the word of our lord and savior Historia Civilis. If you wanna know the deets of the roman republican era there is no better place. Great work Blue, keep up the good work ☺
First of all, I wanna say I really love your stuff. It's really funny and keeps me in tune. My favorites include The Odessey The Iliad and Dante's Inferno. Can you do one on Merlin???
Because of the Sack by the Gauls in the 4th Century BC, it's not only the kingdom but the early Republic whose timeline is a little bit muddled, with backwards calculation always having room for error. A major example, some speculate that the 509 BC calculation for the Republic's Founding was chosen because it predates the establishment of Athenian Democracy by Cliesthenes in 508 BC. Basically saying "We came up with this cool system as well, and we did it FIRST!" Also the fall of the Tarquin dynasty and their attempts to retake the throne are speculated to be a representation of Rome becoming dominated by Estruscan influence to the north, hence the Tarquin's Estruscan origins, and eventually Rome's assertion of independence from them.
If I had a nickel for every time a Celtic horde led by a man named Brennus attacked a Greco-Roman civilization, I’d have two nickels. Which isn’t a lot but it’s weird that it happened twice.
A few nitpicks from Italy: Technically the kings were eight, Titus Tatius, king of the Sabine city of Cures, was co-king with Romulus after many Sabines moved in, reigning for five years until he was murdered during a sacrifice in the city of Lavinium by people from Laurentium who had a grudge against his family. Servius Tullius, sixth king of Rome, wasn't Etruscan but Latin, his parents being war prisoners from Corniculum with his mother being assigned as a slave to Tarquinius Priscus. He was a member of that family only because Tarquinius' wife decided he was going to be great and had her husband make him marry their daughter Tarquinia (Roman names were rather creative, I know). The inclusivity was actually rather common between Italic peoples. Due the custom of the Ver Sacrum (sacred springtime), in dangerous times everything and everyone born in a certain timespan was consecrated, and the humans were sent out to make new villages... And if they met someone from another city, the two groups joined forces. Italic peoples traditionally believed to have been born this way were the Umbrians, the Samnites, the Piceni, the Irpini, and the Romans, the latter identified as the union of a group of Latins from Alba Longa with a group of Sabines from Cures... And then they realized Rome's position on the one crossing in the lower Tiber (and in front of a convenient island to boot) made them a target for literally everyone else south of the river and called in everyone willing to join them for a share of the trade with the Etruscans up north and the tolls from the salt trade between the coast and the hills inland once they had beaten back the neighbours.
So, fun fact, the main guy responsable for getting Tarquinius Superbus exiled was supposedly a Junius Brutus, ancestor to the Junius Brutus who would participate in Caesar's assassination. One has to wonder just how much his family legacy factored in his own decisions. Also, while the earliesr roman kings are more likely to be fully or largely mythological, there's some decent historical basis for the etruscan ones.
I can relate, me and my brother also where raised by a she wolf but on the Rio grande. Found by passing immigrants and living in hill country north of Waco, today we are planning on a master plan walled community for the new arrivals outside of Texas.
The Sabine women are often overlooked in the story of the Sabine women and I find that ironic. The outcome of this conflict could be argued the first of many where the Romans spread their boundaries not by conquest but by commingling.
The more I learn about Roman history, the more eerily similar it is to how American History gets mythologized. America truly has become the Roman empire.
It also probably helps that they both have a lot of similar policies like the relative acceptance of other cultures. (Legally we never cared about religion, and anyone can become a citizen. In practice people will be prejudiced, but eventually it dies down as its hard to hold generational grudges against your neighbors & classmates.) In nation building population is huge, and cultures/nations like the Romans, USA, Iroquois/Haudenosaunee, and Mongols that can accept foreigners into the fold of the primary culture will always have a population advantage. (Either economic growth or simply replacement soldiers)
The causes of Rome's decline and fall are also things going on in the US right now. Things like the wealthy dodging taxes, the proliferation of religious extremism within the political mainstream, etc.
Rome conquered a far more diverse group of enemies l, from the Germanic tribes of the north, to the Marintime Empire of North Africa Carthage, to the Parthians to the east to the horselords of the pontic steppe. No comparison.
"rome was not built in a day. but it WAS built" ah yes the first thing i hear when i come back to this channel after 3 months. noice (also, i was not expecting the tarky-tark super bus joke again)
By the gods do i want a Discussion between Red and Blue on how the mythology of rome ( or realy anything ) ties into its historical background, how it forged their culture, vice versa and how it influenced the politics at the time and thereby how those civilizations developed.
Me: How did Romans just accept Christianity as their state religion when they had such a strong national identity? Romans: We pride ourselves on being descended from outcasts, and believe any one can rise up to become civilized! Here's our mythical founder! Early Christians: We pride ourselves on being outcasts, and believe anyone can rise up to become saved! Here's our mythical founder! Me: Ooohhhhhhh.
I always thought Red would make a video about the dozens of ancient (and early republican) miscellaneous roman myths. The lives of the seven kings are full mythological beasts and crazy characters, while Scaevola is awesome.
@@viniciuscristovao6031 because the myths say that Romulus & Remus were descent off the Trojan prince Aeneas, Troy was a city on the westernmost coasts of Anatolia, Anatolia is Asia.
Having recently stumbled upon the story of Lucretia and how she played a role in the overthrow of Tarky-tark Superbus, via what his son did to her and the justifiable outrage it caused, can't help but feel that Romans put in a lot of attacks on women in their mythohistory when adding in Rhea Silvia and the Sabine women. Not quite bad male writer writing women levels, but uncomfortably close. Then again, I think Roman misogyny may have been pointed out before on this channel, if I'm not mixing up my edutainment channels.
Brutus of Troy was the grandson or great grandson of Aeneas, eponymous founder and first king of Britain. This is according to Historia Brittonum and Historia Regum Britanniae with supposed sources from Livy and Virgil, likely to give a more grand connection to Antiquity than Etymologiae, which speculates it came from Bruti because it sounds similar and Britons were brutes!
Didn't one of their historians theorize that, since "she-wolf" was a Roman slang for prostitute, the twins were actually raised by a hooker till being adopted by some farmers, and then was mythologized or misinterpreted? I do love that.
I know it's probably not how it's described in legend, but I often imagine that Romulus accidentally killed his brother in a blind fit of rage. Like, literally laying bricks for a town, and they get into a sibling argument and when Romulus pushes Remus, he trips over some loose stones and hits his head on bricks, dying immediately from blunt forced trauma. I even like to imagine he named Rome after both of them. Imaginations are a wonderful thing 😂
Romulus and Remus... suffice to say that their story is much, _much_ older than Rome, and killing the character that, in that part of the italic peninsula, became "Remus," is what allowed the world and humanity to be created.
@@Arelenedhel Only did it once or twice lol. Was gonna do more individualized typeups, but... eh, I was lazy, and the sparknotes version of the concept still functions.
I am one of the few people who is completely uninterested by Rome (I love this video because of the people making it, not because of the subject :) ). As usual, amazingly well done video.
You left out my favorite evidence that early Roman history is largely made up; the fact that Numa Pompilius was supposedly a student of Pythagoras despite the fact that Numa is recorded as dieing a full century befor Pythagoras was even Born. Not to mention the fact that Pythagoras may have also been mythological (Pythagoras means "speech of the serpent", and might just be an alias for the half serpent child of Hea/Athena such as Erechthoneus/Cecrops/Glaucus/Scylla/Medusa/Typhon/Echidna most of whom were associated in some way with southern Italy).
For me it's the whole Dido arc and how it incorporates Carthage's foundation myth to set up the great rivalry and war between the two cities as destined.
Apparently, when you try to make a massive area with many different cultures unified, you really have to actively cultivate that unity, or it seems like civil war becomes inevitable. America is 50 nations trying to coexist, and though we've been very successful, our enemies are currently trying Very hard, and succeeding spectacularly, to drive us apart and to war with one another. Hopefully we survive it.
Most likely still took multiple days... at least if I were to sack a city that size, you BETTER believe I'll do at least 3 rounds through the city to make sure I didn't accidentally miss a hidden treasure box...
Early Rome is such a fascinating subject but I've found that at least here in Italy sometimes even trained historians don't really have a critical eye toward it.
You would think people would be more careful about babies around water, just in case. Or…the destitute travellers would start just yoinking infants into rivers, just to see if they could improve their odds?
I’m sorry, but this is my new favourite quote. It was so serious, and the last part had me bursting laughing 😂 “But this narrative reveals so much about the civilization they would become and the kind of people the Romans would one day be: Crafty Bastards.” -Blue
I'm no historian, but I believe Romulus's exact words to Remus when killing him were "You were my brother Remus! I loved you!" followed shortly thereafter by "I have the High Ground!" when ascending one of the hills Rome was founded on.
Trust me on this one, that famous exchange was documented and verified by the same sources that tell us the brothers were raised by wolves. In other words, it is extremely trustworthy.
You got Hearted by OSP. Congratulations.
I believe "i have the high ground!" Preceeded "You were my brother Remus! I loved you."
But otherwhise, this account is clearly indisputable. 😂
Source: I saw it in a dream.
It's historically proven that Remus hated sand. It was so coarse and rough and irritating and just got everywhere.
"Please don't Google it" 😂🤣
Rome being a bandit camp founded by a guy who killed his brother really sets the standard for how romans operated and thought of themselves
Rome was basically one of those Barbarian camps in a game of Civ, that decided it wanted to expand and get nicer infrastructure and thus became an actual faction. XD
Also its not mentioned in the video but in the myth the reason they had to “capture” women was because the rest of italy thought of the Romans as repulsive, and rejected all their marriage alliances.
I’ve also seen it suggested that just like how Romulus killed Remus was Romans trying to understand their constant civil wars, their violent seizure of outsider women was their way of understanding Romes need for violent expansion, and all the wars that come with it. (Like the war with the sabines immediately after they captured their women in the original story)
@@AegixDrakan I mean if you think about it the Mongols were just really powerful bandits too
“2000 Years of Crafty Bastards: The Story of Rome.” That is a book that needs to be written. From the last kings to the fall of Constantinople.
I wish that were most of human history as well, i mean kinda is but even moreso
I can imagine using these meme version of Rome to make a pretty cool New society
You could go further. After the fall of the Western Empire you could flip-flop between talking about Constantinople and the HRE, and after Constantinople falls you can have a small diatribe about the fallout that caused, and then continue on along the HRE up until Napoleon forces it to dissolve.
Crafty Bastards the Rise
Yada yada yada
Crafty Bastards the Fall
Seriously, Constantinople fell because a crafty Hungarian convinced a crafty Ottoman to buy his cannons. ⟨--- You can't make this stuff up.
@@raphaelkap meh, just go in to the Ottoman empire after the fall of Constantinople. Still crafty bastards
Rome fell when Napoleon dismantled the empire in 1804 ...
I say that in jest, but with the 'crafty bastards' perspective, maybe there is more 'Rome' in the 'Holy Roman Empire' than people normally attribute it to.
It's funny even some Romans thought the wolf story was silly. Livy mentions that some people thought the "wolf" was actually just a euphemism for the wife of the shepherd that adopted the twins, as she was also a courtesan (the feminine version of the word wolf in Latin "lupa" was used as a slang term for a courtesan/prostitute)
Which would the h come full circle as Theodora (an “actress” aka sex worker) becomes a Roman Empress
The "river basket infant" story is so old they probably got it from The Bible (cf. Moses), but even that book got it from earlier stories (cf. Sargon of Akkad).
@@Ishkur23 Probably the other way around. Since story of Romulus and Remus' story was officialized in 300s BCE. The Bible didn't came around until ~100-300 A.D.
@@fbiuzz The writing of the of the Old testament began in the 8th to 6th century BCE, only the New testament was written in the 1-300's AD. Moses as the child in a river basket is in the old testament
Of course, the wolf is more accurately the Roman version of the primordial cow from Proto-Indo-European mythology. Auðumbla from Germanic myth serves the same role, as does Gavaevodata from Zoroastrianism.
The idea that Ceasar Augustus just told Virgil to cobble together all the myths and make it one story is the first recorded instance of “Arc Welding” in fictional history.
the trojan cycle
Not the first one by a long shot. Hesiod's Theogony (c. 730-700 BC) is the earliest one I know of, but there are probably older ones still. Guy just went around Greece writing local stories and then tried to make sense of all.
Wait does that mean like Grimms fairytales are Arc Welding
@@yakobi8434 the difference is that they didn't try to shoehorn all the fairytales into one fairytale universe.
@@Dramon8888 That might not be what he's talking about.
As far as I'm aware though, the Grimm's went around listening to and recording these tales from various areas. So for each of the stories they codified they had choose between a) Pick one version or b) Cobble together bits from each and try to make it work.
And they were (or at least one of them was) very interested in how these stories evolved & changed over time and tried to trace disparate versions back in time to find an 'original' (Red talks a bit about this process in some of her vids).
*Fun fact:* Even though most generals and Emperors celebrated their triumphs mounted on a splendid golden chariot, Romulus made all his triumphal parades simply on foot. He certainly deserved the title of "First Among Equals"
Belisarius also celebrated his triumph on foot. He was ironically enough the last Roman to get a triumph.
@@LiliKiabeyBelisarius was so badass a chariot would only make him look weak 😂
@@kekero540 Hell yeah! Him and Agrippa are really underrated
@@kekero540 Belisarius was so badass, he would be the one dragging the horses in the chariot
@@LiliKiabey The kind of ridiculously potent parallelism that only happens in fiction and apparently Roman history.
Rhea Silvia being a Vestal Virgin is what does it for me. The Vestal Virgins as what the Romans saw at that time weren’t established until a few kings later. There may have been a proto-order that became the Vestal Virgins or at least influenced how they were structured and ran, but no actual “Vestal Virgins” at that time.
Nah bro its all true, and the shepherd that found R&R was actually a praetorian prefect.
@@leemarshall348and his name? Augustus (time travel)
@@leemarshall348Impossible, a Praetorian would have immediately assassinated his rightful liege. He might have been a Varangian, though.
“Unlike Rhea Silvia we can’t all be slammed by the god of war” almost made me do a spit take, Blue always has the wildest lines and I am never prepared
w-why not :(
Didn't think much of Ares til now... Now that the idea got in my head and is unattainable, I'm sad :(
It is surreal to hear that my Latin teacher was not the only one referring to Tarquinius as "Tarky-Tark Super Bus"
Grand Moff Tarquinus
That's a great way to learn that your Latin teacher is an OSP fan.
@@rambard5599I've actually heard it for a little while? Very infrequently, but I still don't know who exactly invented it.
"They 100% have a wolf kink!!"
That was not something I ever expected to hear in an OSP video XD
War-furries, if you will.
@@martins.4240Were-furries?
Dave Filoni is Roman???
Maybe from Red. But not from Blue .
@@Chokah Yeah, that's true
The first portion of Mary Beard's SPQR does a very good job of presenting the evidence about the pre-classical Rome we know of, including a proto-latin inscription that was stored deep under the forum
She is an entertaining and informative author.
I'll second that! Just finished reading it a couple months ago.
Gotta agree with Blue on the dubiously long reign of the Roman kings. 7 consecutive thirty five year long reigns without any sudden deaths due to illness or assassination is even more of a stretch than two babies getting raised by a wolf.
Romulus: “Citizens of the newly founded city of Rome. After many efforts and sacrifices, we have managed to definitively establish ourselves in the Peninsula. Therefore, there is something important that I want to announce to all of you... Although our relationship with neighboring peoples may not be completely friendly, we shall never cry out for war. We are people of peace and we do not long to make any conquests. As long as we have breath left in our bodies, my brother and I shall govern defending equality, justice and respect for other peoples and religions. And now, my beloved brother Remus has a few words to share with us. We listen, brother"
Remus: "According to our latest observations, the female population of the city is too small for the birth rate to be maintained..."
Romulus: *Doom music kicks in*
And he killed his brother for that 🥹
As a wise man has often said: "Myths are not stories that are untrue, but legends which do not fit nearly into historical record, that serves as the foundation of a culture."
Ah, a fellow man of culture I see.
glad to see an extra historian around here
I’m not certain why, but that quote really made me want to sit down with a warm cup of tea.
That's not a wise quote that rolls of the toung very well.
Edit: Alright, let me try and summarize this.
"There's a hidden truth in every myth, but every legend are the foundation of a culture"
K, doesn't roll that much better, but it's shorter
I see that you quoted Extra History (Extra Mythology). That is a Great Channel.
That thing about the long reigns of those first seven rulers reminds me of how people in the Old Testament were like 800 years old to make the timeline work. The writers were contemporaneous to the dedication of the Second Temple and wanted people to know that event was important so they declared it to be exactly 4000 years after the Creation, and reworked the chronology to fit.
4:24 same energy as the Greek's saying "Hey you see that mountain over there...that's totally where the gods live"
My brother asked why no one ever climbed it to make certain. I said that the guys who tried fell and it was all "See?"
It’s understood that its less the gods were literally there and more like they inhabited that place spiritually, sort of like the idea where spiritually Christianity’s one god can be present in a worship to him or smth
If Athens needed to combine founder narratives, they could just make them lovers. A ship of Theseus
Can't believe I never thought about Romulus's murder of Remus as Rome's original sin, such a cool way of thinking about it!
Reminds of that quote I can barely remember and dont feel like looking up. It goes “all empires have an original atrocity they spend their lifetime trying to justify”
Yes I have definitely heard some version of that,
I still want a History Makers: Livy video. Livy gets a lot of ribbing here for the earliest sections of his work, but in his defense he was working with what he had--which were, by his own admission, contradictory and often ridiculous legends--not making up new stuff. The rest of his stuff has some decent reporting, albeit done in a narrative style. He was MILES better at being a historian than Herodotus IMHO.
this
From what I comprehend, Herodotus was more of what we would call an anthropologist today, a term which would have been synonymous with "historian" at the time. He recorded what people believed without judging if it could be true or not, it was enough that the source either felt it was true or it was part of their culture's compendium of legends.
@ckl9390 What I appreciate most about Livy is that he expressly tells you when something is accepted legend that he couldn't find evidence to back up, which is a lot more than most of his contemporaries and predecessors were willing to do.
The Rome series gets its origin story
I'd like to see some original Roman myths, not Greek myths retold via Roman names
Welp, time to watch all the Rome videos again with this as the first.
This has reminded me, I'd love to see your and/or Red's take on Geoffrey of Monmouth as a History Maker or his History of the Kings of Britain as a myth. The way he tries to tie the pre-Roman Britons into the Aeneid and by extension Troy and uses very dubious sources like his friend the Bishop of Lincoln's totally real ancient book of Welsh history (you haven't seen it, it goes to a different school) all to show that the real Britons were the friends we made along the way (i.e. the Normans) makes it a really interesting bit of historicised mythology.
"Tarquinius Superbus aka TARKY-TARK SUPER BUS"
this will never get old, istg, it makes me laugh every single time
I’d say Romulus murder of Remus is two fold Romes original Sin destined to be replayed in greater and greater civil wars.
But what you glossed over is Remus crossed Romulus’s Pomerium. The walls of his city, which by laws set by the gods themselves crossing especially armed like Remus was is a death sentence.
So it also sets the precedence of Rome always “Defending” itself in all wars, that legally it was ok for Romulus to kill his brother cause he was just defending himself something Rome would justify they were doing from London to Damascus.
Romulus and Remus... suffice to say that their story is much, _much_ older than Rome, and killing the character that, in that part of the italic peninsula, became "Remus," is what allowed the world and humanity to be created.
This series never gets old 🦅🐺
Rome might not have been built in a day, but it was sacked in a day
@@theanimeunderworld8338great comment but why write it in this specific comment as a reply that's irrelevant to it and not on the main comment section?
Edit:Just saw this very same comment in the main comment section but still responding to this random guy that his comment was irrelevant to your reply was still unnecessary
Love this, and while only briefly touched on I am glad you made a point that Rome really took good ideas from anyone they came across. It’s honestly one of the best things about Rome.
Gotta love the callbacks to Blue's first Rome videos
Oh boy I sure do love hanging out and going to festivals with my Sabine women friends, I hope nothing wacky and cruel happens to us
hello minecraft man
Gotta appreciate Blue bringing back all the best old Rome inside jokes
1 dad, 2 moms, one god (of war) and a wolf (furry)
classic polycule
Regarding Remus, it's worth remembering that his name comes from the same root as _Ymir,_ the Jotunn that Veni, Ve, and Odin killed, and whose body they used to create the world as we know it. It wasn't an original sin of Rome, it was a _sacrifice,_ and the founding of the city by Romulus and Remus comes from the same place as the stories of the creation of the world.
Blue sneaking into Red's territory is always the best vidoes.
The kings of Rome essentially were just a binary spectrum of goodness. King 1 would be the best ruler, then king 2 would succeed them and begin to chew on babies and kill everyone. All while ruling for around 35 years each, a feat only 10 English monarchs could do in over 1300 years.
Romulus also invented the calendar! Bar the narcissism of July and August and all of January and February. He might as well be Cain as well with that bit at the end about Rome's bloodlust.
Also, a shame you didn't mention Tullus Hostilius and the fact he is literally just naming a villain after the fact they are evil.
Hello, yes, my name is Dr. E. Vile Nefarius Dobad.
King Bad Guy who did all the wars
Romulus and Remus... suffice to say that their story is much, _much_ older than Rome, and killing the character that, in that part of the italic peninsula, became "Remus," is what allowed the world and humanity to be created.
@@0th_Law Is this some kind of conspiracy theory or something?
@@blarg2429 Comparative mythology + Archeology + Linguistics. Basically, there were a bunch of people with horses roughly around modern Ukraine, and they migrated/their culture migrated to nearly all of Europe, Persia, and Northern India. These people are known as the proto-Indo-Europeans, and their myths split off and diverged and picked up new aspects and formed into Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, as well as the mythologies of the Greeks, Italics, Slavs, Celts, Germani, et cetera. Red's Mythology videos sometimes touch on them.
Best channel on TH-cam consistently, it often feels like I've subscribed to two different channels and the content is equally amazing. Thank you for clear passionate work you do it's very entertaining.
idk how the fuck you guys keep pushing this fuego content out so consistently but i sure do appreciate it
I recently listened to an episode from Tides of History about the foundation of Roman Republic, and it seems that not even the 509 BC start date of the Republic is necessarily accurate. The "official" lists of consuls technically go back that far, but there is a large amount of name repetition on the early parts of the list, perhaps suggesting that those were also filled in later to make the Republic look like it sprung out fully formed following the fall of Tarquinius Superbus (the Gallic sack probably didn't help either). There is also evidence to suggest that the folks who led the overthrow of Superbus were his cousins, indicating that 509 BC was, in real time, probably just another footnote in an Etruscan dynastic struggle for control of Rome
Also if we recycled waste like they recycled names, we'd be in a global green utopia.
509 is almost certainly not the actual date the republic was founded. 508 was the year that the Athenian established their democracy and the Romans probably just wanted to say they did it first.
@@leemarshall348 you don't think those cunning greeks might have had the same idea?
Except even more cunningly, placing it year after so it looked like someone was trying to one up them
@@leemarshall348 Excellent point!
I don’t understand a thing about Rome, but I still love this channel.👍
Adaptability from circumstances (making the best of the Fall of Troy): check
Surprisingly high levels of acceptance of foreign cultures and social mobility (accepting Italian bandits and riffraff): check
Civil conflict (Romulus' fratricide): check
Tyrant slaying (Overthrowing Tarquinius Superbus): check
Yup, that's Rome for ya. The Romans seemed to have understood their culture shockingly well and could make up an origin story as believable as any real historical record.
Funnily enough there's an earlier version of the Romulus and Remus myth in which Romulus does not kill Remus. Rather, Remus is killed by Celer, the Commander-in-Chief of the city, because the latter was commanded by Romulus to kill anyone who did not enter Rome by the place designated as the entrance - which he declared was the crime of sacrilege and treason.
Upon being informed, Romulus essentially says "Such is the fate of anyone who transgresses Rome's laws."
This version paints the most noble aspect of the Roman identity, which revered Stoicism, Piety, and Law & Order. Not even the king's brother was above the laws of Rome, and suffered the penalty which anyone else will suffer should they transgress Rome's walls.
The fratricide telling seems to be the product of the Roman civil wars, rather than an original sin of the nation.
is it me or does @00:11 bring to mind that one scene from Disney's Hercules where the townsfolk are talking about all the disasters Thebes has been having?
2:35 Speaking of the Rapture of the Sabines, there's a sword and sandal film about that event called "Romulus and the Sabines", in which the founder of the City is played by no other than Roger Moore. It's a pretty curious film, to be honest
There's also the Oregon Territory musical variation that's actually pretty funny, Seven Brides for Seven Brothers
This was quite possibly your best video. Even knowing all the information in here already I loved the humor and wit in this telling of the story. This is why I rewatch y’all videos.
Remus: "How was your visit to the Oracle of Delphi, brother? Did you see the future of our newly created city?"
Romulus: "Well, according to what the oracle told me, our city will expand, not only beyond the Seven Hills and the other tribes, but it will also occupy the entire peninsula and even vast territories that we hardly know about now. Each new enemy that challenges the city will be more terrible and foreign than the previous one, but in the end they will all bite the dust. Then, a kind of government called "Imperi" or something like that will be formed, and will unify all the different cultures and religions of the world, although ours will be the most important. Also, the vast majority of the city's rulers will be pretty phony types: one who sleeps with his three sisters and makes his horse second in command, a fat man who believes himself an artist and burns the whole city down just to find inspiration, one who believes he is Hercules, another who literally wants to become a woman, a boy who only thinks about feeding pigeons, etc. Logically, the government will gradually decline, to the point of being divided into two and replacing the gods who have watched over us for countless generations by an executed carpenter from the farthest corner of the world that doesn't even exist yet. Finally, the part of the Empire in which our city is located will fall, not to mention that the last ruler will have the same name as me"
Remus: "..."
Romulus: "..."
Remus: "...We definitely should have just raised pigs for the rest of our lifes"
Romulus: "Yep"
Hey Elagabalus being trans is like the least notable thing about them compared to what else they did
@@dunbass7149do elaborate
Rome might not have been built in a day, but it was sacked in a day
I really wish there was a way to 'save' comments, so I could look back on them
"That's why it's called Rome and not Reme" haha. Classic.
01:33 said interruption is pretty important if you consider WHO was its source. Aeneas, forefather of Rome, ended up in an affair with none other then Dido, the queen of Carthage, who ended up killing herself out of sadness when he left. This is supposed to foreshadow the rivalry between the two cities. Dido distracts Aeneas and thus prevents him from fulfilling his duty. When she dies in the end, this is supposed to symbolize the seed of discontent being sown between said civilizations.
Also, I love the fact that the clash between Romulus and Remus is about the latter of the two fronting his brother for not building the city wall high enough, which he then demonstrates by simply jumping over it. This is some straight-up anime shit.
In the version i read it was because they couldn't decide where to build the city
@@viniciuscristovao6031 Googled it because I was wondering if I just misremembered, and apparently both versions do exist.
But while I only did some quick googling, some of the results make me think that both versions are actually based on the same Latin source, and different summaries just focus on different aspects of it. It's been a while since I read it (was in my Highschool Latin class), so I don't recall it perfectly anymore.
Great video! And this is from someone that comes to osp mostly because of Red's videos about tropes and myths. I really liked the analysis of the myth to better understand what the Romans wanted to say about themselves
For those who wonder about what happened to King Romulus after the founding of the city, it is believed he disappeared forever when he was carried away by a whirlwind during a celebration on the Campus Martius. It is said that the tornado was sent by Jupiter to transport Romulus directly to Heaven, so the King will become a God without first dying. I just hope that the man who founded the eternal city who conquered the world is still living happily with the gods, playing war with Mars and sleeping on the huge breasts of Venus for all eternity 🥲
Nah. After kidnapping a bunch of “wives”, he got drunk and fell into the river & drowned.
“Shit, bro, now what?”
“What are you on about?”
“Romulus. He tripped over that rock and fell into the river! Now he’s dead!”
“No he’s not.”
“Feck, bro, I just saw it!”
“No you didn’t.”
“Then what did I feckin’ see then, big-brain?”
“He was taken up to the gods by a tornado.”
“What the feck is that?”
“Don’t you understand plain Latin? It’s the past participle of ‘tunare’, to thunder.”
“He thundered and then he went to heaven?”
“Yes.”
“That does explain why it’s so whiffy. What was he eating before he thundered his way into heaven?”
“Cheap wine, little fish soaked in olive oil, cheese, and lots of garlic, same as the rest of us.”
“… Can… can we just go north a bit and join the Gauls? They have beer and roast wild boar.”
“Yeah, barbecue does sound better. Let’s go.”
To be fair, Livy also records that he he may have been murdered by jealous senators
This is a great video. I took Latin in high school and enjoyed watching your videos to learn even more about the history and mythology. It's interesting how Virgil's Aeneid on one hand tries to give a odyssey styled mythological history on Rome's origin while on the other hand, sneakily making fun of the emperor of the time without him figuring it out.
0:05 And slaves. Bit of an important point to mention. Lots and lots of slaves helped build Rome over the centuries.
I love that you and red are constantly stepping on each other's toes specifically because the line of myth and history is so absolutely blurred.
Maybe the 7 kings were meant to be dynasties, which would make sense due to the span of tima and love for pointy stick playing, but is literally a top of the head hypothesis
Best way to learn something. I had a good history teacher but I would have smashed it with a teacher like Blue (and Red too!)
Definitely want more historical takes on myths by blue!
"If destruction be our lot, we ourselves must be its author and finisher." Abraham Lincoln *said* it, but Augustus would have agreed.
I had way more fun with this than I expected to. I mean I love the way Blue does history anyhow but he was channeling some Red energy this time and the result was delightful.
Blue quickly recaps Roman literature & mythology before Red notices and commissions Cleo to wipe all of our memories… never thought I’d see the-wait what was that again?
Yes! I was really impressed by the structure, the settings/locations and the music! (On top of the usual enjoyment of the content!)
I am here , once again , to spread the word of our lord and savior Historia Civilis. If you wanna know the deets of the roman republican era there is no better place.
Great work Blue, keep up the good work ☺
First of all, I wanna say I really love your stuff. It's really funny and keeps me in tune. My favorites include The Odessey The Iliad and Dante's Inferno. Can you do one on Merlin???
Because of the Sack by the Gauls in the 4th Century BC, it's not only the kingdom but the early Republic whose timeline is a little bit muddled, with backwards calculation always having room for error. A major example, some speculate that the 509 BC calculation for the Republic's Founding was chosen because it predates the establishment of Athenian Democracy by Cliesthenes in 508 BC. Basically saying "We came up with this cool system as well, and we did it FIRST!"
Also the fall of the Tarquin dynasty and their attempts to retake the throne are speculated to be a representation of Rome becoming dominated by Estruscan influence to the north, hence the Tarquin's Estruscan origins, and eventually Rome's assertion of independence from them.
I hate Gauls....
If I had a nickel for every time a Celtic horde led by a man named Brennus attacked a Greco-Roman civilization, I’d have two nickels. Which isn’t a lot but it’s weird that it happened twice.
Blue is absolutely *SAVAGE* in this video! More like Overly Snarktastic Productions, amirite? Slay Queen! SLAY!
Without those “Crafty Bastards” we don’t get domes!
A few nitpicks from Italy:
Technically the kings were eight, Titus Tatius, king of the Sabine city of Cures, was co-king with Romulus after many Sabines moved in, reigning for five years until he was murdered during a sacrifice in the city of Lavinium by people from Laurentium who had a grudge against his family.
Servius Tullius, sixth king of Rome, wasn't Etruscan but Latin, his parents being war prisoners from Corniculum with his mother being assigned as a slave to Tarquinius Priscus. He was a member of that family only because Tarquinius' wife decided he was going to be great and had her husband make him marry their daughter Tarquinia (Roman names were rather creative, I know).
The inclusivity was actually rather common between Italic peoples. Due the custom of the Ver Sacrum (sacred springtime), in dangerous times everything and everyone born in a certain timespan was consecrated, and the humans were sent out to make new villages... And if they met someone from another city, the two groups joined forces. Italic peoples traditionally believed to have been born this way were the Umbrians, the Samnites, the Piceni, the Irpini, and the Romans, the latter identified as the union of a group of Latins from Alba Longa with a group of Sabines from Cures... And then they realized Rome's position on the one crossing in the lower Tiber (and in front of a convenient island to boot) made them a target for literally everyone else south of the river and called in everyone willing to join them for a share of the trade with the Etruscans up north and the tolls from the salt trade between the coast and the hills inland once they had beaten back the neighbours.
the painting of Romulus and Remus in the thumbnail is very cherubic
So, fun fact, the main guy responsable for getting Tarquinius Superbus exiled was supposedly a Junius Brutus, ancestor to the Junius Brutus who would participate in Caesar's assassination.
One has to wonder just how much his family legacy factored in his own decisions.
Also, while the earliesr roman kings are more likely to be fully or largely mythological, there's some decent historical basis for the etruscan ones.
2:16 it's funny 😂 in Macedonian, our word for "Rome" is "Рим / Rim". Same with other south slavic languages. Not sure why that is though.
I can relate, me and my brother also where raised by a she wolf but on the Rio grande. Found by passing immigrants and living in hill country north of Waco, today we are planning on a master plan walled community for the new arrivals outside of Texas.
The Sabine women are often overlooked in the story of the Sabine women and I find that ironic.
The outcome of this conflict could be argued the first of many where the Romans spread their boundaries not by conquest but by commingling.
The more I learn about Roman history, the more eerily similar it is to how American History gets mythologized. America truly has become the Roman empire.
It does help that America is even bigger than Rome as at it's peak.
It also probably helps that they both have a lot of similar policies like the relative acceptance of other cultures. (Legally we never cared about religion, and anyone can become a citizen. In practice people will be prejudiced, but eventually it dies down as its hard to hold generational grudges against your neighbors & classmates.)
In nation building population is huge, and cultures/nations like the Romans, USA, Iroquois/Haudenosaunee, and Mongols that can accept foreigners into the fold of the primary culture will always have a population advantage. (Either economic growth or simply replacement soldiers)
The causes of Rome's decline and fall are also things going on in the US right now. Things like the wealthy dodging taxes, the proliferation of religious extremism within the political mainstream, etc.
Rome conquered a far more diverse group of enemies l, from the Germanic tribes of the north, to the Marintime Empire of North Africa Carthage, to the Parthians to the east to the horselords of the pontic steppe. No comparison.
"rome was not built in a day. but it WAS built" ah yes the first thing i hear when i come back to this channel after 3 months. noice (also, i was not expecting the tarky-tark super bus joke again)
By the gods do i want a Discussion between Red and Blue on how the mythology of rome ( or realy anything ) ties into its historical background, how it forged their culture, vice versa and how it influenced the politics at the time and thereby how those civilizations developed.
Me: How did Romans just accept Christianity as their state religion when they had such a strong national identity?
Romans: We pride ourselves on being descended from outcasts, and believe any one can rise up to become civilized! Here's our mythical founder!
Early Christians: We pride ourselves on being outcasts, and believe anyone can rise up to become saved! Here's our mythical founder!
Me: Ooohhhhhhh.
I always thought Red would make a video about the dozens of ancient (and early republican) miscellaneous roman myths. The lives of the seven kings are full mythological beasts and crazy characters, while Scaevola is awesome.
Great video keep it up you're doing amazing things 😁👍
Why can't we get a movie on Romulus and Remus?
Because that movie will be woke trash, make Romulus asian or some shit
@@miket7869the funny thing here is that if the origin myth was true, he was.
Those two replies did not help at all
@@bobs_toyshow was he asian?
@@viniciuscristovao6031 because the myths say that Romulus & Remus were descent off the Trojan prince Aeneas, Troy was a city on the westernmost coasts of Anatolia, Anatolia is Asia.
Wow im early!
Been watching for a few years, loving the videos, keep up the amazing work! :D
Having recently stumbled upon the story of Lucretia and how she played a role in the overthrow of Tarky-tark Superbus, via what his son did to her and the justifiable outrage it caused, can't help but feel that Romans put in a lot of attacks on women in their mythohistory when adding in Rhea Silvia and the Sabine women. Not quite bad male writer writing women levels, but uncomfortably close. Then again, I think Roman misogyny may have been pointed out before on this channel, if I'm not mixing up my edutainment channels.
Brutus of Troy was the grandson or great grandson of Aeneas, eponymous founder and first king of Britain. This is according to Historia Brittonum and Historia Regum Britanniae with supposed sources from Livy and Virgil, likely to give a more grand connection to Antiquity than Etymologiae, which speculates it came from Bruti because it sounds similar and Britons were brutes!
I prefer the idea that the name of Britain came from the Punic word for tin.
This came at the perfect time as I’m currently walking to my first ever Latin class 🎉
"What actualy happened doesn't matter. History is what we remember"
Well, that certainly explains a lot. Thanks for the videos, Blue
Didn't one of their historians theorize that, since "she-wolf" was a Roman slang for prostitute, the twins were actually raised by a hooker till being adopted by some farmers, and then was mythologized or misinterpreted?
I do love that.
I know it's probably not how it's described in legend, but I often imagine that Romulus accidentally killed his brother in a blind fit of rage. Like, literally laying bricks for a town, and they get into a sibling argument and when Romulus pushes Remus, he trips over some loose stones and hits his head on bricks, dying immediately from blunt forced trauma. I even like to imagine he named Rome after both of them.
Imaginations are a wonderful thing 😂
Romulus and Remus... suffice to say that their story is much, _much_ older than Rome, and killing the character that, in that part of the italic peninsula, became "Remus," is what allowed the world and humanity to be created.
@@0th_Lawstop copying and pasting your comment in the comments section
@@Arelenedhel Only did it once or twice lol. Was gonna do more individualized typeups, but... eh, I was lazy, and the sparknotes version of the concept still functions.
"that's why it's called Rome and not Reem" is hilarious every time because in my language Rome is literally called Rim (pronounced Reem)
What language is that?
The mismash of Rome's Founding Mythology really sets the mold for later Roman Religious Absorption
OSP, please do a video on Josephus.
I am one of the few people who is completely uninterested by Rome (I love this video because of the people making it, not because of the subject :) ). As usual, amazingly well done video.
You left out my favorite evidence that early Roman history is largely made up; the fact that Numa Pompilius was supposedly a student of Pythagoras despite the fact that Numa is recorded as dieing a full century befor Pythagoras was even Born. Not to mention the fact that Pythagoras may have also been mythological (Pythagoras means "speech of the serpent", and might just be an alias for the half serpent child of Hea/Athena such as Erechthoneus/Cecrops/Glaucus/Scylla/Medusa/Typhon/Echidna most of whom were associated in some way with southern Italy).
Blue's favorite subject, besides Venice!
Its worth noting that the shewolf was named Lupa (a female wolf), which also came to mean prostitute.
Make of that what you will.
For me it's the whole Dido arc and how it incorporates Carthage's foundation myth to set up the great rivalry and war between the two cities as destined.
Apparently, when you try to make a massive area with many different cultures unified, you really have to actively cultivate that unity, or it seems like civil war becomes inevitable. America is 50 nations trying to coexist, and though we've been very successful, our enemies are currently trying Very hard, and succeeding spectacularly, to drive us apart and to war with one another. Hopefully we survive it.
Started watching the history of Rome podcast recently. This is fun
Rome might not have been built in a day, but it was sacked in a day
Bro, that was barbaric 💀😂
Most likely still took multiple days... at least if I were to sack a city that size, you BETTER believe I'll do at least 3 rounds through the city to make sure I didn't accidentally miss a hidden treasure box...
Early Rome is such a fascinating subject but I've found that at least here in Italy sometimes even trained historians don't really have a critical eye toward it.
How is it that every baby that is thrown into a river shortly after birth becomes the hero of a founding myth
You would think people would be more careful about babies around water, just in case. Or…the destitute travellers would start just yoinking infants into rivers, just to see if they could improve their odds?
I’m sorry, but this is my new favourite quote. It was so serious, and the last part had me bursting laughing 😂
“But this narrative reveals so much about the civilization they would become and the kind of people the Romans would one day be: Crafty Bastards.” -Blue
God, 8:52 caught me off guard, good job Blue
Brave of Blue to risk the wrath of Red and her army of ninjas 😂
Aww, this gives me nostalgia for high school Latin and History classes