Rome's First Assassination... oops - History Hijinks
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ธ.ค. 2022
- "The Senate will decide your fate"
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On the subject of the Gracchi possibly being Senators - I couldn't get a clear answer in my research. Answer seemingly in favor is "They had been Quaestors, so they were automatically in the Senate." But that rule wasn't in place yet. 52 years after Tiberius, in 81 BC, Sulla reformed the Cursus Honorum so that Quaestors finishing their term automatically became Senators. Before that, former Quaestors only became Senators when the Censors manually updated the Senate's membership every few years, and I can't determine whether that applied to all Quaestors or some. So it doesn't appear to me that the Gracchi were automatically part of the Senate because of their Quaestorship. They certainly COULD have been, but if their Tribunate came very quickly after their Quaestorship, they might not have gotten their Senatorial promotion yet.
So from what I've seen, it's not actually guaranteed they were Senators, and indeed likely they weren't. If anyone has more on this, please let me know! The suspense is beating me to death with wooden chairs!
-B
Honestly when the title said "Rome's First Assassination" I thought you were talking about Romulus and Remus, the founders of Rome itself. But those two was a pleasant surprise.
@@tommyfox854 It's all about brotherhood, amiright? XD
@@eshbena I suppose.
@@tommyfox854 Well, at least the Gracchi brothers didn't kill each other over a petty argument over which hill to build a settlement on and who had seen more birds like Rome's founding brothers did. Instead they got to die political martyrs.
On a quick search through the webernet I found that in the late Roman Empire 133-31 BC Quaestors could be elected into senate, but in order to be eligible for election into Quaestorship you had to be the son of a senator. Gracchi's father has the same name as his first son so I'll call the father Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus 1. Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus 1 was Consul in 177 BC so it is possible that his two sons would be eligible for quaestorship because of his rank as Consul, although I could not find any hard confirmation. It is possible they could've been elected senators but I would doubt Gaius's grudge against the senate for his brother's murder.
“Nobody could kick Rome’s ass like Rome” is a banger of a line
When in Rome, beat it up
Gotta know it to kick it, I guess xD
Rome outclassed pretty much everyone, in pretty much everything. That includes destroying Rome. Allow me, if you will, to play a dirge on a hillside, using my beloved violin!
When in Rome, commit political violence.
@@themoistfeltlipsofsatanasamuppRome bears itself up
I love the Palpatine gag I can't look at his wrinkly little face without hearing "I AM the Senate"
"Not. Yet!"
Lol. I thought that’s who it was supposed to be.
Dewit!!!
Same here
L'etat, c'est moi.
Louis XIV, the sun king
"I don't want to be remembered as the wife of Sempronius Gracchus or as the daughter of Scipio Africanus. I want to be remembered as the mother of Tiberius and Gaius Gracchus..."
*Cornelia*
Personally, I'd rather just be known for being great, but I get it.
Glass-ceiling and all that.
And she became forever "Cornelia, Mother of the Gracchi."
Fun fact, my history teacher once referred to the murder of Tiberius as "the IKEA murder" because it was done with chairs
That is a fun fact
Last time I was this early Caeser wasn't a knife block
Nice
👌🙏😂😂😂
You, sir, are a man of great refinement who likes planes.
What makes this joke funnier for me is that there is such a thing as a Caesar shaped knife block.
I love that the Senate is represented by a modest depiction of Palpatine.
oh is that who it is? ok, I'll take yer word for it.
@@DDlambchop43 even if he didn't look like it, all of the references where there.
That, or you need to know Star wars well enough
@@mr.boomguy I know star wars well enough; I even watched the prequels (mostly). I just wouldn't have recognized the guy right off the bat.
Moral of the story: when you make force the final arbiter of decision making, don't be surprised when everyone suddenly starts using force to solve disputes!
"Oopsie doopsie! We just killed a tribune of the plebs in broad daylight! Looks like politically motivated violence is on the table!"
And for some reason, the Roman Senate never learned this.
I love how the Senate is just Palpatine. It seems even Red and Blue aren't immune to the power of Memes.
You merely adopted the memes. OSP was born in it, moulded by it. They never saw a serious post until they were adults.
Immune? That seems to imply they ever resisted
They let the memes in.
Red at least, has always known the power of memes. Tropes are just a specific type of meme after all
@@cowserthekhelinace 😂😂
"Violence was a key ingredient of Roman state craft abroad, and with such a thin line between military and political establishments, we shouldn't be surprised when someone applies that thinking in local politics." As an American this line stood out to me.
Makes my brain go *hmmmmmm*
As an American, I see the parallels all too well. We're heading in that direction, almost gleefully.
@@John_Weiss
I'm particularly excited because I have a close knit group of friends and we're all physically fit and share politically extreme religious beliefs.
The blood of the degenerate aristocracy will flow in rivers from the burning ruins of Washington DC! 🥰
@@DISTurbedwaffle918 I hope you're being sarcastic.
Because if you're not, then know this: When you come to kill me for being a "filthy f@gg0t", I will _not_ go down easily and I will _not_ go down alone.
@@John_Weiss
Lol.
I won't need to, you guys tend to off yourselves well enough.
Quite simply: real people outbreed you abominations. You'll go extinct, and society will recover from your disease. It's simple evolution.
*Fun fact:* The Gracchi brothers appear in the Rome trilogy of books written by Steven Saylor, which tells the story of the Pinarii family, from the year 1000 BC. until the Christianization of the Roman Empire, and the relations of its members with the men and women who shaped the history of Rome. It's quite heartbreaking how the novel shows Tiberius and Gaius dying in such a horrible and miserable way and how their mother, despite everything they went through, never remembered them with sadness, but with enormous pride for becoming the legends she wanted them be
I mean…to be fair…a lot of cultures in that region had the mentality of “if I can’t be immortal, I’ll either be famous or so bad I’m infamous!!”
*Legacy* is what mattered.
(See sparta’s “either come back with your shield (victorious) or on it (killed in battle)”, the whole Resurrection vs YOLO debate between the Pharisees and Sadducees mentioned in the bible, and literally the entire plot of The Epic of Gilgamesh.)
@@spacecat8511 And to be doubly fair, in an era where disease and famine were common and medicine was often less than stellar, that makes a lot of sense. If there's a solid chance of dying before your time no matter what you do, then it makes a lot of sense to focus on what you can do to immortalize yourself in the history books rather than worrying about someone shanking you in a dark alley.
W mom
One thing I remember from an episode of the "Hardcore History" podcast about Rome: Roman families had a room in their house dedicated to all of the family's illustrious ancestors. And the boys in the family were _regularly_ taken to that room to be told the stories of all of these famous ancestors and the great things that they did. So there was a large amount of social pressure within Roman families to, if not outdo, then at least equal the accomplishments of ones' ancestors.
So obviously a Roman matron would be proud of her sons becoming legends.
You always have so many good quotes to summarize Rome's history with self-imposed decline.
"Rome never met a civil war it didn't like."
"No one could kick Rome's ass like Rome."
And my personal favorite: "As the saying goes: When in Rome... SACK IT!"
*"As the saying goes: When in Rome... SACK IT!"*
It's what the Romans would have done, after all....
Fun fact: the term "armchair" was actually coined after several senators used chairs to pummel Tiberius to death and, as a result, said senators got extremely swol arms in the process.
oh, i thought it wouldve been because the chairs were used as "arms" of violence
@@merilahna nah it's because the chairs did a lotta 'arm to Tiberius
It's not because it took two to kill the guy, and they can only be wielded by hand?
@@aidandavies6164 I would've thought it was because of how the senators armed themselves with the chairs.
Don't know if true, but I accept this headcanon.
It took me too long to realize the notably uncute chibi with an evil menace was Emperor Palpatine.
Gotta say, I wouldn't mind going back to the days when running for office too many times in a row was considered a tyrannical power grab.
I still believe that the Roman Republic was a bit too extreme I'm this respect. Many offices only had a one year term and were limited to only 1-2 consecutive terms depending on the office (you might be able to run again after a number of years). There's only so much you can do in a year and Rome was ambitious enough to perform ridiculous feats. Really, you want a little more stability in leadership, even if it's just extending the term a few years and/or offering the chance of 2 terms. The U.S. president's up to two 4-year terms seems pretty good.
How about this: Give the House of Representatives up to four 2-year terms (max 8 years) and the senate up to two of their 6-year terms (maz 12 years. Supreme Court justices should probably have some term-length rather than being at the whims of the reaper, but I'm afraid how that works play out. They should definitely still have long terms, even if it wouldn't be for life.
@@Nerdnumberone That would work for me for Senate and House. For Supreme Court, I say mandatory retirement once they hit average life expectancy.
@@brak666 … or after a fixed number of years, whichever comes first.
You only have to go back to 1944. After Franklin Roosevelt won his fourth election people began to whisper he had kingly ambitions. That's why Presidents are limited to two terms today.
The fall of Rome joke will never tire me. The Gracchi brothers are a fascinating case of the power of popularity and proving Palpatine right for all eternity. "Those who have power are afraid to lose it."
I am also most pleased by the fact that the senate looks like Ian McDiarmid. He loves democracy. He will watch our careers with great interest and he is, beyond a reasonable doubt, The Senate.
“It’s fall” he says on December 9th
That being said, Fall season is a truly wonderful time of year - the crunchy leaves, good food, and the endless repeated downfalls of civilizations make it the best season of them all
Yeah, it’s finally fall in Texas! I get where Blue is coming from.
The parallels of "started breaking government customs" and "rioted to stop a vote" in the steps to Rome's downfall is just really uncomfortable.
…and quite prophetic.
The entire Republican party needs to be sat down in front of this video and forced to watch it on repeat until they get a clue.
@@John_Weiss The only clue they would get is, "hey, it eventually worked out for the authoritarian populists!"
@@GeneralBolas Sadly, you're probably correct. 😠
@@John_Weiss to be fair when republics fall or at least hit stumbling blocks it follows a pretty standard pattern, it’s like when there’s a civil war in a kingdom you know somewhere there was jealous brother and a succession crisis
@@edanridge3023 I suppose you're right.
I do remember, from my one Classics class, that Ancient Greek democracy failed by turning into an oligarchy. So that fits.
Rome’s first assassination is like an Olympic Runner’s first steps.
"When all you have is a chair, everything looks like a Gracchus" might just be my favourite gag ever
For those interested in the life of Tiberius Gracchus, there is an amazing and extremely accurate BBC mini-series called "Ancient Rome: The Rise and Fall of an Empire". One of the episodes tells the life of the famous reformer, played by James d'Arcy, and how his reforms brought about the end of the Republic. His death scene is really painful to watch.
Extra history also made videos on the Gracchus brothers
When talking about setting a precedent, it's amazing how these people who will resort to drastically violent measures to solve a "problem", thinking that's the end of the matter, so often fail to realize that the same logic could be applied to them with the same level of expediency.
"All my problem will be solved if I just kill a few people"
*later*
"By jove this can't be happening"
2:42 I like how the image for the senate looked very much like Palpatine.
He IS the Senate!
I'm sure its a complete coincidence
@@foldabotZ Not. Yet.
@@shadowldrago It's treason then.
Fun fact: by Roman law it was forbidden to bring weapons inside the Pomerium (the sacred perimeter that defined Rome proper, smaller than the walled area), on pain of being suspended from a tree and then beaten to death with flexible rods (it would take hours of being beaten to die). That's why they killed Tiberius Gracchus with chairs: they weren't masochist enough to risk that kind of death penalty.
Oh they didn’t really give a shit either, since by Roman law standards to even touch the Tribune of Plebs without permission was considered a sacrilege and a capital offense.
@@peterinasen4320 True... And that was why the ringleader invoked a sacred ritual to lynch a would-be tyrant, otherwise he'd get lynched for violating the Tribune's sacrosanctity that made him legally invulnerable.
The second blue said the name Gaius Gracchus my thoughts did a record scratch. This is because when I started a DnD game a little over a month ago, I’m the DM, my dad gave me his character. A human fighter who has a penchant for defending the disenfranchised named Gaius Grachus (one C). So I’m just sitting here wondering if that was remotely intentional.
Probably not, but now I want to implement bits of this history into his story!
it was totally intentional.
Just hope your Dad didn't plan on you ending the same way....
"it's a season of Fall" he said, releasing the video on Dec9
It's fall until December 21, baby!
The fall joke and the body workout was funny 😂 😂
I love the Palpatine references throughout the video XD
yesssss
Ouch. Hope you've fully recuperated from your long term covid ! Also you're right, we do love to hear all about ancient Rome !
"...to strategically unalive them..." I bet you're feeling pretty proud of yourself for such a little gem. That one hurt. Literally. Coffee came out of my nose on that one, which really burns the sinuses!
"nobody can kick Rome's A$$ like Rome"
-Blue, 09th of Dec 2022.
Blue: I'm done with my Rome series, so now I'm going to talk about Greece!
Also Blue: Here's so many more things about Rome I can and will talk about!
Well, all things considered, I do agree that it is rather interesting, so I don't mind.
What is Rome, if not Greece's far more successful younger brother?
I highly recommend watching Extra Histroy's series on the Graachi Brothers. It's about an hour long and very interesting, diving more into the politics, policies, and mental processes.
I remember first learning about these guys back in my highschool latin class, and their story just made me incredibly sad. These two men with really noble ambitions and policies that would have greatly helped the Republic, but they overreached and got murdered for it. I would honestly argue that the Gracchi assassinations are the most important event in Roman history, purely because of the blood-soaked door it opened and the cavalcade of assassination and civil war that trampled through. Eat your heart out, Jules McCheekbones Caesar.
I highly recommend The Storm Before the Storm by Mike Duncan. Its a very enjoyable read about this time period of Roman history. Mike Duncan famously hosted History of Rome podcast and Revolutions podcast. Great read
I was about to write exactly that!
I've not read any of his books (to my shame), but man History of Rome was good. I need to catch up with the appendices for Revolutions.
"do not quote laws to we who hold swords"
I came to say the same! It’s even in the video’s description too
He also narrates his own audiobooks, if that’s how you like to get your information (like me).
Ironic. He wanted to give everyone the right to "plots", and a plot is what did his family in. Silver-lining? This is where the public decided that "the chair" was too inhumane a death penalty, so they opted for lethal injection. Caesar didn't seem to like that change, but I didn't hear anyone else complaining about it.
“It is the Season of Fall”
*Posted December 9th*
The overlap between Rome and Star Wars is beautiful. Pls do more on that xD
Blue will grind the "Fall" and "Fall of Rome" joke into the ground until winter! Then he'll dig it up again and dust it off in March just in time for the Ides of March.
".... owls in the daylight -"
~I just want directions!
theres a beautiful, subtle humor in making the lil head icon for the senate look like Palpatine
I've known about Tiberius and his brother for quite a few years now, long before I discovered this channel, and they've always struck me as a fascinating chapter in Roman political history. So I'm pretty stoked to see you covering them 😊
me: absolutely loves the Star Wars prequel movies.
also me: doesn't realise that the Senate figure is supposed to be Palpatine until it says "it's treason then."
I am having a bad case of the Friday over here, 'cause my brain ain't playing ball.
When my ex and I were watching the senate scene at the cinema, he embarrassed me by yelling: "This is the end of the Roman republic! George Lucas copied that from a history book!"
And thus the stabbing begins
Yes, the stabbening
Knives out.
@@puki860the stabbening was happening
More like bludgeoning at first
@@willphoenix5464 They eventually refined their technique to stabbing lol
"When we get to winter" Me a Canadian looks outside as it is literally snowing right now thinks "Yeah when we get to winter....like Canada has more than 3 seasons (winter, summer and not winter)"
"I'ts the season of fall, and i will grind this joke down to winter" - Blue
Video posted on the 9th of December
"It is currently the season of fall."
*looks out the window and sees snow coming down.
Well, something is certainly falling, right now.
0:38 it's December
probably recorded in autumn
The first day of winter isn't until the 21st. Technically it's still fall. lall
One day, I hope Red does a video for Athena like her video of Aphrodite & Dionysus. I also can't wait for them to play Hades 2 and drop some more lore on us!
Extra history did a series on the brothers Gracci way back in the day, like a couple years ago. I'm going to have to go watch that again, thank you for the new historical context and reminding me of an old telling that I can now revisit with new eyes
Yea, that is a really great series. Probably what kicked off my interest in both history and politics at the same time, since it was during the 2016 election too
I absolutely love you finally got around to the Gracchi. To me they're some of the most interesting people in history. Their intentions were probably good, but their methods were dubious and the reactions to those methods were definitely bloody evil. Any dubious things the Gracchi did, were probably only done because there was no other way with the senators trying to keep their power, but that might not be an excuse as the result would eventually be empire and emperor. On a related note, if anyone knows of a good movies/series/book/comic that tells their story, I'd love to know about it.
Red: So how many Star Wars references do you want in this video?
Blue: *Y E S*
Red: Are you sure?
Blue: *DEW IT*
Wow the gracchi brothers are really the definition of "Either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain"
Wouldn't quite say they fell to villainy
Were they schemers? Yes but you would have to be crazy not to be in their field of work, and in fact the truth is they didn't scheme enough as they were stopped by good ol murder
I don't see how they could be seen as the villains tbh they may be self servant but their reforms were positive for the people under roman rule
Why? Neither of them _did_ live enough to become the villain.
I'm not sure about that. Their reforms seemed pretty heroic all the way to the end, expanding rights and wealth to a wider part of the empire. While the other people in power saw their political maneuvering as dangerous, I don't recall a part where they massacred their political opposition. Heck, they even seemed to stick to the letter of the law with less corruption than the senate.
Of course the senate and privileged classes saw them as villains, but that was a powerful and vocal minority.
I wouldn't really say they got to the point of becoming full fledged villains. The problem is that by this point there were many parts of roman society that simply weren't working and bending the political system was the only way to to try and change this. But this made it easy for those in power to justify offing them on the grounds of "protecting the Republic". This certainly did mark a turning point though where political violence started to become a lot more common.
You know, I'm reminded of the phrase "history may not repeat, but it does tend to rhyme."
Who hopes that OSP gets a chance to play Monster Prom?
I want to see Red relate to Liam, Blue, relate to Calculester, Indigo relate to Zoe, and Cyan relate to Vera
Omg hell yes ive been having monster prom brainrot lately and i want to see them react to its latent absurdity in its full glory
YYYEEEEESSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh yes pls!
As someone with the "Fall of Rome" shirt, I don't think that joke can be run into the ground. It's too good.
Blue: "Long Covid sucks."
Me: "Tell me about it." *coughs up lung a week after getting better.*
I did not expect political intrigue in my slapstick comedy. Congrats for making a genuinely interesting and still funny video
_This list of 'Roman Emperors Assassinated' is incomplete. You can help by expanding it._
Blue thank you so much for this video. Its very good, but also has been helping me fall asleep since it came out and i am so greatful for the help.
Tiberius being murdered via a WWE style beat down with chairs is pretty funny 😂
I love the flood of Palpatine gags, nice work xD
The top three most famous Italian sibling duos in history:
🥉 Tiberius and Gaius
🥈 Romulus and Remus
🥇 Mario and Luigi
Foucault's Boomerang at work: when a state uses violence or oppression to expand its power abroad, expect those methods to come right back around at home.
Blue's comedy about death and destruction is on point
"However, this is ROME we're talking about." That sums up so much...
Awesome channel! Keep up the amazing work!
It's crazy how much hasn't changed in the world of politics since Rome. So many countries' leaderships and their aggression towards each other leads to violence the likes of which you could only imagine in fiction.
"Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters. The silence is your answer."-Javik
Its never about honor , it's always about money recourses and power. Ironically in death honor is the only thing of worth left
"Murdered to death."
Ah yes, that tends to be deadly
Thanks for the video Blue! Nice to have some history to look up on my day off!
Hope you’re feeling better and love the Rome videos!
I'm wondering how Blue knows so much about the difficulty of blugening ppl to death with a chair....
"It is currently the season of Fall."
Publish date: 9th of December
This is perfect after my binge of The trials of Apollo this week.
This video is sponsored by the Guild of Millers. The Guild of Millers uses only the finest flour, true Roman bread for true Romans
I just got the pins I didn't get a chance to before. I'm so excited to have the full set.
As a canadian hearing blue call it fall is really weird to me after all the -20ºC days we've been getting lol
It took me an unfortunate amount of time to realize that you were representing the senate with an image of Palpatine.
To OSP these videos really help when I'm feeling under stimulated (I have ADHD) because there's to much compact information and funny so thank you
Feel free to swarm us with Rome content. It parallels modern society in many ways. Glad you are feeling better. Thanks for giving vaccines a thumbs up. I'm an ex icu nurse now, couldn't keep up any more with the overwork. Too bad cuz I've 30 years experience and was good at what I did. I have a nice position now in an infusion clinic so I'm still useful.
So what I learned is that, if you use dirty/violent manuevers to get your way, expect to get it thrown right back at you if you don’t get punished
nice not surpised
1:45 this "oh no" is frickin HILARIOUS
just finished my lessons on gallo roman arts for the semester and all the rome videos were very timely 😌😌
My mother's definition of graceful is doing something difficult but making it seem easy. Blue, this is a gracefully made video. Congrats.
"I will run this joke into the ground until we get to winter"
*Video gets released in December*
"The Senate" is looking very powerful. One could say "Unlimited"
"Yell at people in latin and hope they get it" sounds like my plans for how to get neighbors to leave me alone once I'm an old witch living in the woods.
Goals
That "Like this video if you've ever won a set piece naval battle" killed me. I don't know why.
Illustrating what looks like Sheev Palpatine to represent the Senate got funnier as this went on.
Ever since Extra History's video on the Gracchi Brothers I always felt that the situation in current United States of America is not the Roman Empire under Caligula or Nero, and more the Roman Republic at this point.
…and after Octavian Caesar, Rome collectively curled up in a corner for the next 200 years, rocking back and forth, muttering, "We're still a Republic. We're still a Republic. We're still a Republic," over and over again to itself.
I'm expecting that to start happening in the US sometime next decade. 😭😱
Blue: it's fall!
Me: I'm looking out the window and my car is covered in snow. IDC what the "official start of winter" is. It's winter.
😜 All jokes aside, love your videos! Can't wait for the next pod!
My thought process while watching: "Is this going to be about the Gracchi brothers? Oh neat I was right it is about the Gracchi brothers. Oh no...this is about the Gracchi brothers..."
Keep the Rome videos coming, Blue
Suggestion for future video: Pliny the Elder. Next year is the 2000th anniversary of his birth.
In spring 2021 I was going to go to Italy for my senior trip… it was announced April 2020… let’s say that nothing happened. Thank got that none us signed anything or were able to put money down for it. The trip never happened. Guess who is going to Italy for winter break this year! Finally the three years of Latin I did (and nearly failed… I still do not understand the grammar) will be useful! I am beyond hyped! All your videos are going to be so helpful to make me sound so smart to my family!
i mean it won’t be that useful,most italians speak italian… unless you mean like reading ancient stuff or talking to the pope cause that’s about it. mind you,you can be a british politician,they speak more latin than english
Hey at least I might be able to scream a few random words like “Argus” and “puella” and “currunt” as a few random Roman ghosts @@thegreatbritishcircusfeatu2531
@@ravenpotter3 yeah i’d reckon there’s loads of them considering how many people were assassinated
You do you Blue, I love Rome and Greece just as much as you do! So absolutely no worries about staying in this region for awhile. Also a huge fan of the fall puns. Roman politics is actually really fascinating and something I loved learning about in school. So maybe more?? Jk unless? Anyway great vid, hope you feel better from covid :)
Watch out watch out! It's the Pontifex Maximus with a steel chair!
This reminds me of Extra history’s series on the Gracchi brothers.
“I’ve been focusing on ancient Rome a lot recently, and there’s three good reasons why.”
Really, Blue, really?
“Well…three reasons why.”
There we go.
Sorry to hear, but glad you're getting better.