How to wire a 3 Phase (inverter) washing machine motor to a Variable Frequency Drive (VFD)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 พ.ย. 2020
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Inverter:
GB-GS02875
XSY-AT1
AT1-1500s
Motor:
CE set CIM 2/55-132/ZN
3 Phase Induction Motor for automatic washing machine
195V 300Hz 3A
17000rpm
Cod 147101001 - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
![มองหน้ากันไม่ติด (Awkward) - โอ๊ต ปราโมทย์ FEAT. MAIYARAP [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4b02SY_r6Gw/mqdefault.jpg)
Great video thank you so much, the unique feature of these motors is they are balanced to 17,000 rpm which gives a massive wide speed range like no other. My application is to convert my wood band saw to also cut both metal and wood with the right belt reduction and vfd. These motors are quite powerful at 1/2 hp to 3/4 hp and with 10 to 1 or 20 to 1 belt reduction that is a lot of torque for any home work shop machine in my opinion.
The power lamp came on after You unplugged it. Thanks for sharing this video. Really helpful! 👍
Glad it helped. the power stays on from the energy stored in the capacitors.
I love your 3 phase washing machine video.
So to connect this i just simply wire 3 phase on vfd with a wire to 3 phases on the motor ? It doesn't matter which direction ? And do i need to connect anything else to the motor except these 3 wirez from vfd ?
so i need to wire 3 phases from vfd to 3 phases on the motor, and thats it, right? or do i need to do more
hello sir your video realy helped me out a lot cause, its like having a friend! right there teaching me, thankyou! so much! im very greatfull!!
Hi Bootsowen, i just got an electric motor from a washing machine and it looks like is either a BLDC or a PMSM motor. Hard to tell as they are quite similar in construction but driving them may be different. I know they have permanent magnets as if I put the 3 wire in short circuit gets quite hard to rotate the shaft. The label on the motor doesn't say much beside AC195V 1.5A 915Hz , 18300RPM Type DWE600BL. Couldn't find any info about this type on google. Anyway just wondering if you have tried any BLCD or PMSM motors with your VFD or you know anyone that has give it a go. Cheers
Do you think it would work if you tried to brick a washing machine while using the inverter? (With an inverter motor Like the aeg you have?)
I think it might work, but it might damage the VFD, so i'll just stick to other machines for now.
Considering maximum spin rpm of typical washing machine around 1000, it reduces speed around 17x and increases torque by the same amount , for constant power: P=Mxn (actually in metric units MxOmega, omega is rotational speed in radians per second and torque in Nm). I've just bought similar motor, but of 800W. I think it can be adjusted maximum output voltage as well as frequency.
what is the description , voltage, KW, ...input 120 volt ???
Hi Bootsowen, I've just bought pretty much the same inverter. In the past I have stuck with industrial inverters of known provenance like IMO etc but this time I went for the ebay cheapest. So I've got the instructions and struggling to find the parameters I'm used to like motor power rating, overload current protection settings etc. Like you say there is lots of raw data in the instructions but not easy to understand. I guess I will figure it out with enough head scratching and sideways thinking. Cheers
I didn't worry too much about motor power, as long as the inverter is big enough for the motor I think it is ok. But I'm not many things and electrician is one of them. There is a ramp up time that I think is important for some machines, to avoid belt slipping and giving too much to the motor too soon. On the one I got you can set a speed and ramp up and then press play and it will get it there. I haven't used mine in a while so I am rusty. I would love to be able to use the other connections to give read outs, etc. I think that I would also like to have an added off kick switch or two. If you figure it out let me know. Your inverter of provenance on the Harrison looks to have had a more professional installation.
Hello. I bought the same. Do you know how the P127 program can be activated so that I put it to work for 5 or 6 or 6 .... minutes and then it stops?
The manual states that "The frequency converter will be stopped when the countdown of P127 to 0 hour ", but I do not know how to activate it.
Thanks
from Greece Manolis
P127 is an hour counter - by default if P127= 65535 then it is off . If you set P127 to anything less than 65535 the counter is active and decrements 1 every hour of running. It is not really a control - but a life counter...indicating perhaps that the drive should be Serviced after
65534 hours of running. Some unscrupulous system builders use this to stop machines after a certain length of time and the end user may think it is faulty to get a call out and a replacement drive. If you require the drive to run for a certain time use a simple timer relay once activated via a push button enables the run signal through the external inputs. When the time is up the timer relay opens disconnecting the run signal and the drive will stop. See P11 and P50
Are the coils delta or strar?
300Hz is equal to 18000rpm, so the speed of the motor is directly proportional to the frequency you set in the VFD, to calculate the Hz in rpm, multiply Hz by 60 by 2 divided by the number of poles, and that equals rpm.
Theoretically - yes… In practice there is always a little bit of slip. e.g., a 2-pole motor has a synchronous speed of 3,000 rpm but actually spins at 2,800 rpm because of slip.
The component you're looking for which explains the magic at the end is called a capacitor.
I wonder if it is possible to run these motors using their own MCU ( motor control, inverter) that is in the washing machine. It appears that main contol board seem to just supply the 5VDC and PWM. Three wires. I supplied the MCU with with 120VAC and 5 volts to the three pins ( ground and 5VDC). Nothing happened.
If you figure it out let me know
Any suggestions on a Variable Frequency Drive Inverter for a parts washer with these specs 208-230/460 volts and 21-18/9 amps 3ph ?
I presume it is for the pump on the washer right? why not use a capacitor to create the third phase, especially as it will run on 220v/, have a look at Andy Reynolds videos on how to do this.
I also have a washing machine motor, on it it says 195v, is it possible to run on 230v? And does it matter which way to connect the 3 phases? Cool video.
also what is your power source ? im guessing a power supply ?
hello bootsowen i tried to connect vfd to the motor, the same one you have on video. i connected it properly but it shows an error 1. i really need your help asap, do you know how to fix it? in the manuals it says its about short circuit and module protection. i have the same vfd as you, i really hope you can help me. thanks for help, i really appreciate that
I dunno. Have you checked for a short circuit?
I have a commercial 3 phase washing machine will this work for that I know it potentially will power the motor but what about the other components?
It will power the motor if you take it out of the washing machine. It might work to drive the washer if you set the frequency to match that of your 3 phase electricity, but it will fail when the element comes on as it will draw too much electricity for the VFD.
Will you record more videos of this vfd?
Maybe, it is on my lathe now.
Can I ask you a quick question? How do you access videos early?
I sometimes post videos early in unlisted form, they are accessible through my playlists. If you subscribe to my playlists, all or one and put on the bell then you should find out, otherwise check in to the playlists regularly.
whats your input voltage on the VFD? are you plugging into a standard 120 outlet?
In put in the U.K. is 240v. The input voltage depends on the inverter. You can get all types. Single and 3 phase. What country are you on.
@@bootsowen Thanks for the response. I'm in the USA, so the standard is 110/120v.
You can probably get appropriate inverters for 110. But you Should have 220 for your dryer socket somewhere or on your electric panel.
Man these have gotten more expensive now lol. There's seems to be a bunch of other vfd available now but they seem to be lower power. I have what seems to be the same model of washing machine motor as you. It's rated for 800W but that must be at max speed. If I use it, would be to retrofit a band saw to run slower so I'm not sure I'd need it to run up to top speed.
My friends...this invertor not suitable for inductional 3 phase washing motor. Between coils phases have about 6 ohms. For unload running it take about 400 and some time, when changes 700 W. Terrible much. The motor is very hot soon. This inverter is suitable for ordinery 3 phase inductional motor (can be old 50 years)-there are between coils about 25 ohms, and it take unload about 50-60 W.
You are right.I bougt this inventer and tried to Washington machine engine , engine gets very hot and vfd get error. Now it doesnt work ne. I am gona try it with anoher ordinary 3 phazae motor.
Good morning. Great video. I have a question, does this motor have brushes?
How can I connect a VFD like this to a brush washing machine motor?
Thanks
Not possible. It’s a different type of motor. It can be difficult to get your head around these things when starting out. The brushed motor is a brushed commutator universal motor. I have posted other videos about how to wire it and how to speed control it and how to build speed controllers. This video has a special 3 phase induction motor. It is suitable for drive with the vfd. But not very suitable. It has a different voltage and may not like the mains voltage applied by the vfd.
OK, thanks for the help.@@bootsowen
My three phase motor has 4 wires. I assume one is a earth. Can I connect the earth to the same earth connector as the 230v single phase earth cable?
Could be a neutral? Depends on how it was wired.
Lots of different types of 3 phase. should be easy to identify an earth, probably just screwed to the casing.
For the second part of your question. probably yes.
Idiot question here, I hv a Magimix food processor from the 90s with a induction motor. Can I connect an inverter like this to make it variable speed like a Thermomix? Would the wiring hv to be before /after the capasitor? Thank you!
It all depends, if the capacitor is for mains suppression only then you can probably turn it down with a voltage regulator: Have a look at my "how to wire a washing machine motor" videos. That is based on it being a brushed universal motor. It is a complicated question when there is no description of the motor. I think it is unlikely to be a start capacitor in a magimix, but it could be a run capacitor. The first step is to identify the motor. Depending on how you regulate the speed you may lose power too, so it would stir batter but not bread dough.
@@bootsowen th-cam.com/video/6tMaObaeLUo/w-d-xo.html. In this video halfway though there is a clear shot inside the machine. Quite sure it doesn't hv brushes as it's silent when running. I will watch yr video.
That one looks like an induction motor, I guess it depends on what the cap does, it may be that you can use an inverter like you suggester and remove the capacitor. But I don't know. If you aren't worried about cooking either part, then give it a go and make a video of it!
Hello when are you going to record the video where you are connecting it to direct drive motor
I am not sure If i will. It is not as simple.
The VFD board you showed in this video, which was the same one you were looking at in another video has what are called IGBT Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistor and are the final stage of a VFD. The IGBT switch extremely fast by having its gate fired quickly thus producing from a pulsing DC BUS and variable synthesized frequency. Just adding a capacitor to cause a phase shift wouldn't do it on a 3 phase motor.
Other people have had success shifting the phase for a 3 phase motor using a cap. I haven't tried it.
If the motor is 195v max and you using it with 220v mains....does it it not blow the motor??
It didn't, and it is only a few volts in the difference.
@@bootsowen thanks @bootsoeen, although i think it broke mine. Got a small project and maneged to get a 3 phase motor. I plugged to the mains directly and after 30 secs started smelling weird. I unplugged and I saw the white cord around the copper had melted. I assume its coz of the volt difference...
I have an Elecrolux motor and MCU, I kept the control wiring from the washer control board. The trouble shooting paperwork was inside the back panel of the washer. I have tried to follow the wiring on the MCU but got lost doing it. I did however get the motor to test and spin by supplying power (120 v)to the washer control board and hooked the door lock from the washer control to the MCU it ran for ten minutes and then shut down. The motor or the MCU has a ten minute duty cycle I don't no which one. The washer control bd supplies the signal to the MCU bd through the 5 pin connector to the left of the motor connector. If anybody Knows knows how to read the signal from the washer control bd to the MCU bd. I would like to know. The MCU is its own Vfd but it still has a ten minute duty cycle.
Cool stuff. I just pulled the motor from Electrolux washer. It has 5 wires + ground. Trying to figure this out now...
Did you get it going?
@@bootsowen No i havent yet. Got few challenges. The motor says 200V (?? rather odd rating). I live in US with 110v. I do have 220v in my garage where I could use it but I still dont have the VFD. The model you show in this video would cost me $70 USD. It is not the end of the world, of course, but I need to make sure at the end of this, I would be able to power with variable speed my 1939 vintage lathe.
I think that the motor I did was about 180v or 190v. The circuitry in the washing machine would control that. Andy Reynolds did some experiments on a motor like this with a capacitor and found that it got hot on 220v. We have 220v as standard in the UK. I don't think that it would have any issue running on 110v, but it might be underpowered. You have 60Hz electricity in the US we have 50Hz here in UK. So if you run it on a capacitor it will only run at 3600rpm for you, I think. But the motor should be rated to 300HZ to give you a speed of 18000rpm, if you can get that frequency into it. So it might be worth getting a 110v VFD and trying that.
Look at it another way however, why not try to get the type of motor that the lathe should have? Or a modern equivalent, second hand? Was the lathe designed for a motor, or is it a treadle lathe.
@@bootsowen the lathe has an electric, constant speed motor now but only 3 speeds achieved by moving the belt to another pulley.
One of the things I was hoping to have with the 3phase motor is high torque at low rpm. Would be useful for say thread cutting. I googled for that info and found contradicting information on low rpm torque in 3ph motors.
hello bootsowen, i bought one but its struggling a lot at low speed, is there any way to make it rotate at low speeds without struggling?
manuals isn't saying anything id understand, as you own it for a longer time maybe you know something about it
Hi. Is the VFD matched to the motor? Some 3 phase motors need 400v and some will go on 240v. What sort of motor are you using?
@@bootsowen its also the motor from hotpoint aqualtis, probably its the same one as in the video. AQS73D29
@@bootsowen is there an option to change it in vfd? i really need your answer, than kyou
An option to change what? If you are asking about voltage then the voltage is whatever the mains is for you, 240v or something, so you can't change this to 400v and use the vfd, the vfd mightn't like it.
Hi bootsowen, im not sure if you still have this vfd, but if you do, could you please explain and maybe help me with error 6? (over current protection) Whenever I run the motor it moves but shortly stops after with error 6 appearing on the screen. I have looked everywhere but all solutions are on different vfds. Do you maybe have a solution on this problem? I would be very thankful. I am using Bosch inverter motor
no idea, do the instructions say?
@@bootsowen they just say what the error means which is the over current protection thing, not really how would u fix it ://
looks like i will need to simply replace it
if it is drawing too much current are you trying to use it with a motor that is too big for it?
@@bootsowen im not really sure if it is too big, its a simple washing machine motor, besides im pretty sure this vfd should be suitable for industrial motors too so idk, also i have the same model as u
How to hotwire inverter motor normally just to the mains?
Without this variac..
I show this in another video. Thanks
@@bootsowen Can you please share me a link? I cannot find it😅
Did you use the search function in TH-cam?
@@bootsowen I did but cannot find what I need… I only get results with hotwiring brushed universal motors… or I am blind😐
Dear Bootsowen.
i have the exact same motor and desparetely try to run it.
have you found any way to run it with simple components such as capacitor or applying dc load etc?
i do not have budget to buy VFD thats why i am asking your valuable help.
thank you for such great videos!
Will this VFD work with LG WD1403FD Motor Direct Drive ?
I tried it. But they don’t necessarily want 230v.
LG motor draws 2.1kW 220V. Do you think higher voltage for this aplication?
I can't imagine a washing machine motor drawing 2.1 kw. Usually a washing machine motor will draw about 300w. The rating of a washing machine usually includes that of the element. Which is about 1800w. I could be wrong but in the UK washing machines work on 13amp plugs, at 240v this gives just over 3kw. so it is unlikely that the machine would have a 1800w element, and a 2100w motor. I have seen a commercial Miele that had 5.5kw, but again this was almost all due to the element.
As the washing machine 3 phase inverter driven induction motor has a tacho coil on it the next time you come to do a video on induction motors and VFDs, try out connecting the tacho coil to the inverter as well as the motor it self so the VFD knows what RPM the motor is going when you next experiment this.
I could try, I am not sure if the output from this tacho are the same as the signals that the inverter wants, I don't want to break the inverter so I might have to do some investigations. Thanks for the idea though!
I think washing machine and washer dryer manufacturers should use these VFD's for their eco silent inverter models as they are cheaper than making their their own because the washer induction motor will only work as normal and the washing machine programme will just tell signals to the inverter what speed to do.
Can you power these motors from DC?
If you attach dc to the motor it will lock it because the frequency of dc is zero so the motor will not turn.
I have shown this experiment in my how to wire 3 phase motors videos.
Can you do a wash video with this I would love to see how it would work with heavy clothes in the washing machine thank you
Great suggestion!
I want to see a washing machine destroyed with one of these things in it!
Hey dude, if i connect my washing motor, it start and then error one....can you help me?
It give a error at 39H
I'm not really able to help you without more information.
Its tripping at 39hrtz , its a washing machine moter, send you you the foto
Were did you set p01 on? Reference freq?
hiya. have got 2 Washing machines at the moment a 2012 hotpoint and a 2020 series 5 Samsung. Both have brushless inverter motors.
both move the drum different. I like the Hotpoint action of the drum better than the Samsung - The hotpoint when it has finish high speed spin speed it slows down nice and quietly - when the Samsung slows down after a spin speed it slows down with a 'woosh' noise or lets describe it as a 'shrill' noise like you would get with a carbon brush type washing machine (but not as loud) i find it mildly annoying and it make the otherwise smooth induction motor noisy as it slows down , its like when the Samsung has finished spinning its like braking the motor but done by electronics (possibly by the motor electronics board?) - i dont think its a fault with the motor or washing machine, its just a different make and this is the way obviously Samsung have designed their machines to slow down after high speed spin.
Then I have noticed on the Samsung , whenever machine is about to revolve the drum in the wash cycle , just for a split millisecond the drum will 'jerk' , so say if the drum is going to rotate in a clockwise direction a split second the drum will ever so slightly shift back anti-clockwise (blink and you will miss it) and then go clockwise as normal , its almost like it gives a 'pulse' before it goes in the direction its meant to go .
Would you have a clue what is going on (as I say its not faulty and I have seen other Samsungs and some other makes like Bosch do exactly the same , like 'braking' the drum as it slows down from spinning, and the drum 'jerking' just before revolving. What electronics on the motor PCB be responsible for it and could I maybe 'modify' / hack the motor board to not do this ?
Thanks
That kind of stuff is beyond my electronics level. But it is all possible. Others on here may know.
So basically 4 of these motors on four wheels and off you go. (Brakes might be considerable)
And a very long cable
@@bootsowen Nothing to worry about with the right flux capacitor in the pocket. 😜
Wow you hear no electric hiss from the motor.
how do I wire a motor like this the induction ref CE set CIM 60/55-132/ad 3 Phase Induction Motor for automatic washing machine 195V 290Hz 3.7A 17000rpm Cod w160027977.0
how does the video not help you? how is yours different?
You tube can be a great place to learn what can and can’t be done in the home workshop etc but to produce a video without explaining the dangers of vfd’s/inverters and clearly showing a single phase 3 core single phase uk domestic cable connected to an inverter particularly with the green/yellow earth core directly connected to one of the 3phase outputs of the vfd and to one of the phases of 3ph motor is extremely dangerous. If this was all the cable you had then explain the dangers and sleeve / tape the core with an alternative colour to indicate this is not earth. If this was adapted into a machine / home project And the wire became disconnected anyone who serviced the machine may just connected the wire straight to the earth of the motor as they should by the colour code - on next switch on this could blow up the inverter. 4 core cable should have been used (ideally motor rated screened cable). The motor should be earthed! If the motor had a fault and you were touching the motor on power on....you could have killed yourself. Also please advise wait at least 10 minutes after powering down the drive before disconnecting any cables as the drives have large 350v dc bus capacitors. We all do things that may be dangerous at home but please advise the dangers particularly as cable colours are there for a reason. I really don’t want to be critical but this was extremely dangerous and based on some of the questions asked people clearly need guidance.
I appreciate your comment, why don’t you make a video describing what you have suggested? Post a link to it here.
Hey great vid
Did you find at all your motor getting hot ?
Iv set up the same arrangement as yourself but im running a diffrent motor ie
Welling 3 phase induction motor
Spin 195V(3~) 310Hz 320W 1.9A
And the inverter very similar to yours
But motor is getting hot ..
Saying that now i did take the motor out of a machine that was dumped so its probably busted 😂.
Lets know anyway bout yours
Thanks man 👍
It could be busted, how long were you running it for? most washing machines wouldn't be spinning flat out for more than 5 minutes, most of the time they turn a little and rest. But anyway, motors do get hot and that is ok, you would never be able to touch a motor in a washing machine when it is running without taking the side off. So they will get hot. How hot is the question. If it turns without the blue smoke then it's probably not bust!
@@bootsowen
I just know its getting way to fast and im not sure if its because the motor is rated 195v on full spin and i seen another guy actually supplying hos inverter with just 200v instead of 220 ..il send you the link ..
You didnt do that yourself !
So thats why i was asking you did your motor get hot 👍.
Way to hot to fast ment to say 👍
Haha spell checking doing my head in ahaaaarrr.
My motor is getting hot way to fast i ment say
@@bootsowen
th-cam.com/video/4TFJBjksTVg/w-d-xo.html
İnverter motor?
3 phase motor,
inverter washing machine
@@bootsowen used to be called induction motors if I remember rightly. ( might be totally making that up lol )
I think you're making it up, much older machines used to have induction motors, I have one in the cellar, they had a capacitor on them.
17,000 rpm. I doubt that.
Google what a capacitor is, bud.
What’s a cap?
*Only professional people may carry on the wining, converter has high pressure, and prohibits secretly opening the shell.*
What?
Never forget that professionals at the peak of their careers designed, built and sailed the Titanic.
EightiesTV, LOL. Living in fear.
We want to know how it works on the washing machine with the inverter not how it works with an inverter that you buy from amazon
That's what I want to know as well. Why don't you figure it out and make a useful video about it?, instead of reposting amy winehouse videos?
@@bootsowen this reply made my day!
So to connect this i just simply wire 3 phase on vfd with a wire to 3 phases on the motor ? It doesn't matter which direction ? And do i need to connect anything else to the motor except these 3 wires from vfd ?
This particular VFD model takes single phase from your domestic supply at 220v and turns it into 3-phase output also at 220v (the motor must be configured in ‘delta’ - there’ll be a diagram in the motor’s terminal box) ignore the colour of the wires used by bootsowen on the output side - he did mention he’d used the green/yellow Earth wire in a standard single phase piece of flex as a phase wire (for expediency) - functionally fine but a little bit naughty regulations wise😮. The input side (on the left) is wired ok using the same type of flex with Earth, live and neutral. There are other models of VFD which take 3-phase input and then output 3-phase at your selected frequency, take care to check the specs of what you’re buying before you hit the buy it-now button!
So to connect this i just simply wire 3 phase on vfd with a wire to 3 phases on the motor ? It doesn't matter which direction ? And do i need to connect anything else to the motor except these 3 wires from vfd ?
Yes. Just like in the video.