Bill Starr and the Starting Strength Method with Mark Rippetoe
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 เม.ย. 2021
- Mark Rippetoe answers a question about the origin of the Starting Strength Method and whether it is derived from Bill Starr's programs.
Excerpt from Starting Strength Radio Episode #92 100 Duck-Sized Bres: • 100 Duck-Sized Bres | ...
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Cant people realize that if your system was a knock off of Bills that maybe Bill Starr would of had issue with it? I was fortunate enough to be pretty good friends with Bill and he spoke highly of you. I never realized that his books are going for such crazy prices now. I happen to have all 3 and even have some of his art work as well.
I absolutely love old pictures with rip and his friends. It's like a piece of history.
Once you get to Rip's age this is true for everything
Bill Starr was awesome. He taught me and many college athletes how to do squats, bench and cleans (we did not do the jerk). He wrote a bunch of articles in muscle mag. He was simple and yet awesome. Heavy 5X5 Mondays, light Wednesdays, new heavy Fridays 3X3 (then Monday you try to do it for 5). Squat, bench and cleans. It was great. But more importantly, he was great. He was glad to teach and talk to awesome strong students and more bench warming football players like me (trying to get stronger to get in). We could all learn a lot from Bill Starr (who loved to lift in flip flops)
More Bill Starr stories, please!
Hey, I got clipped. Nice! Thanks again for answering.
Thanks innocent Italian guy (not in the mafia).
@@wreagfe Well... not yet
TL;DR Bill Starr produced HLM, not LP programming.
Bill Starr's methods can be found in The Strongest Shall Survive as mentioned on pg 443 of Barbell Prescription and his genius produced the HLM method of manipulating the stress/recovery/adaptation cycle the body goes through throughout a weekly basis, which became the bred and butter of intermediate programming success after one has graduated the novice phase of Starting Strength programming.
Edit: nvm he just explained the whole thing :/
Pgs. 253 and 256, actually. BBRx doesn't have a pg 443. :) Exactly as Rip said: Starr left us HLM, or at least the template, and it originally included Squat, Bench, and Clean.
@@GreySteel I don't have the physical book. I have the Kindle version which has 557 "pages". I'll be getting the physical book at some point though. Kindle was a BIG mistake. Can't stand the set up.
HAL How ae you going to turn the pages of a non digital copy.
@@jamesianv It has "pages". The whole thing was weird and frustrating for me. I didn't use it for long. I just buy the physical book now.
Is there any footage out there of Starr lifting? I've seen videos of other York lifters like Bill March and Bob Bednarski, hopefully there's also some of him. I use his programming principles for the Olympic lifts and it's worked really well so far, and every time I've followed the advice from his articles he's never been wrong.
When I read "Starting Strength" I saw a certain influence by Bill Starr. It looked like to me that you included some things from Bill Starr like squatting 3 times a week and power cleans, however, it also looked like you went your own way in a lot of the program.
I live in North Carolina and trained at a gym owned by a man named Jack King, he was a former Olympic lifter turned bodybuilding. Bill was s huge influence on Jack as well, he like you came up with his own methods too. I also own the strongest shall survive (a good book) as well as your book. I think you do a much better job of analyzing and breaking down the movements.
I just created the 4 x 4 Method.
Good since I ‘invented’ 4x5 💪💕
4x6 here you slackers
I’m all in
My 2 x 2 is twice as efficient as yours, maybe even 4x as efficient. 😁
The NLP is remarkably similar to a course first published in 1958 by Reg Park.
Back extension 3x10
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Deadlift 3x5
Train 3x a week, adding 5 lb.
Run for 3 months.
Park called it a strength and bulk course and it was intended to be the first in a series of courses for weightlifters and body builders.
He recommends keeping a log, dropping poundage by 10% at sticking points and working back up, or increasing bodyweight.
Interestingly at the time of writing Paul Anderson was the only man to have pressed over 400 lb. (props to Chase).
Park was the 2nd person to have benched 500 lb, he was a strength based bodybuilder.
Alternating press and bench, and cutting the 3x5 deadlift down to 1x5, and deleting the back extensions are improvements that would make the program identical to the first phase of Starting Strength NLP.
Not saying SS is based on Park's program, it's obviously not, but Park was onto some of the the same basic principles very early on.
Park actually got this from a few guys that wrote about it in the 30s (can’t remember their names off the top of my head). This and essentially SS have been around for almost 100 years
Wow.
@@Jmack7861 I have a lot of weightlifting texts from the 1920s, 30s, 40s and 50s and I've never seen a reference to 5x5 before Reg Park. Park said, in writing, that the concept of 5x5 came from working with his grandfather in the coal mines in Leeds. He discovered that he could work longer without tiring if he switched his shoveling side ever 5 shovelfuls. When he got advanced in weight lifting he decided to try the same thing with his sets so he could use more weight than the traditional bodybuilding sets of 10.
So I can't say with absolute certainty that there was no 5x5 before Park, but Park didn't acknowledge getting it from anyone else and I've never seen it referenced before Park. There was obviously heavy, low-rep training around before Park, and books and magazines by writers such as Mark Berry, Earle Leiderman, the Saxons, etc. espousing it, but formal 5x5? I've never heard of it.
Thanks for clearing that up Mark! That always was in the back of my mind. I suppose everyone assumes a direct correlation between your material and Bill Starr's due to your predilection for sets of five, which Starr also favored and full body sessions, but there's more to programming than reps per set or even body splits, which amounts to little more than superficial similarities.
"It's not that I'm smart, it's that you're stupid" - Mark Rippetoe
Regarding the interesting blog on running. I have found Sprint training over short distance an effective means of gaining power.
Hahahahahah “it’s not that I’m smart.. it’s that you’re stupid” my new favorite thing to say to an idiot
Hay Marc people are hater's you wear thare your program is the best thanks 😊
I bought that book for $20 from Ironmind. I still have the receipt inside it. I almost fell off my chair when I heard the price. It's in mint condition and I won't be selling.
I had Ed Coans book too which I foolishly sold for some paltry price. I think it's worth more than 300 bucks now.
"I was there. You weren't". The beauty of being really old is- nobody can call you a liar.
Did you watch USA politics the last 4 years?
@@jonathand9682 you mean the last 4 months
@@michaelcarter8620 no i do not
I think the confusion comes from the strong lifts app being free and more easily accessible than reading a book. Unfortunately even though the guy didn't invent the method the accessibility has made a difference.
A tender young Rip getting it in. Nice flashback.
Forget the haters, impostors and usurpers. Cream rises to the top.
and then it curdles and turns into sour milk......lmao.
@@jonathand9682 bruh XD
Is this rippetoe in the thumbnail?
Could you imagine Bills rant on this? Feathers can’t be ruffled from knock offs.
/woossaaaaa
It's funny no one ever throws these constant accusations out on all the garbage yt channels.
“Its not that I’m smart: it’s that you’re stupid” keeping that one in the chamber
Wow... I ran stronglifts. Never thought of it as a RIP off of Rip.
Well it uses the same 3 day a week/AB rotation as Starting Strength, as well as sets of 5, and it uses squats, deadlifts, presses and bench presses. Of course the same is true of a myriad of workouts people have done over the years so it's a question of whether you think you can copyright such generic points. The same is true of course when you look at SS vs Bill Starr's workouts, and I'm sure if you look further back still you'll find someone else using those basic principles even earlier.
Stronglifts has never meant for the same goals as SS and I think the creater of the program makes that clear. It's more of a bodybuilding beginner program while SS is aimed at athletes looking to get stronger.
@@BigUriel Right, you cannot copyright an "idea" or "concept" per se. You CAN copyright these items in a tangible sense (coaching, form, books, etc.)
@@jonathand9682 the specific term "linear progression" is a generic math term. The concept of adding 5 lbs to each workout is old school. Not sure what he could claim IP on?
@@Buzz_Kill71 everything with SS on it. Lmao
Mehdi never said it was his program, he literally credits it and never claimed it was his own, just made it more accessible to everyone
Stronglifts Mehdi?
Maybe one day I will create 6x6.
Rat Patrol - Who was there, you or me?
Nah, He’s probably in the Mafia. LMAO
"It's not that I'm smart, it's that you're stupid"
Plot twist: It was actually Pyros Dimas and he’s older barbell sportsman, but he’s looking to get into powerlifting. And he’s not Italian, he’s some other kind of Mediterranean.
Greek.
well shit i better sell my copy of SSS asap! daddy needs a new pair of shoes
Yeah, and some walkin round money!!! U feel me?!?!
So is this a comment from the hater’s ?
It's a French speaking guy from Belgium, not from the Netherlands. I resent the Anti-Dutchism :-)
Dear Mark, You get angry too easily