What an incredibly generous act of personal expression in support of anyone who has experienced abuse, experienced a rupture of their faith, and had to face the ordeal of re-examining their values, worldview, and community in order to align with truth. You're a brave and shining example of how to do it with integrity. Thank you.
Yeah, well articulated and I am glad he rediscovered his faith. But many have shipwrecked their faith for making a hero of a man. This is the chief idol of man!
Thank you, Carson, for not giving up on God when a man we all used to respect disappointed you. What he taught was GOOD. What he did behind scenes was BAD, and I am very sorry to hear that RZIM has not admitted this to be true. God is the final Judge and all will be revealed. Keep on in the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.
People who are guilty….usually try to silence the people who question them!! Unfortunately we just cannot put our trust in people….only in Jesus Christ!! Thank you for sharing your journey! God bless you!!
Thankyou for this comment elsiezimmerman. I've watched the downfall of Christians who unknowingly worshiped the "teacher", and not THE ONE we were learning about..thus when the teacher proved to have feet of clay--their own legs weakened, and their faith fell away😢. Keep your eyes upon Jesus, and only upon Jesus❤
I know for a fact that PTSD from spiritual abuse is a reality. “Getting better” is a non-linear journey as Carson so eloquently testified. Thanks to both Carson and Julie. Please keep the conversation going.
The Times they are a Changin' Very encouraging Sir, keep going, keep telling the story of the utter dislocation and emotionally inexpressible pain of spiritual abuse. There are so many who suffer in silence, with NO place to be truly heard, or helped to recover. Thanks be to God, for HIS truth! The bride belongs to the bridegroom. Jn 3.26
John 3:26: 26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with you beyond Jordan, to whom you bear witness, behold, the same baptizes, and all men come to him.
This talk totally met me where I am at. Thank you, Carson, for your vulnerable and honest expression of your journey. I've found myself in a similar battle, grappling and struggling to see light and hold on to hope. Your words are a reminder that there can be more and that the traumatic experiences of our past have changed us, but not destroyed us. Thank you!
Right - it's ok to not be ok. I have to constantly remind myself of that truth. I hope some day to be able to tell my story, for others' benefit, like you did, Carson.
I totally relate to this story. I was spiritually abused by my pastor and his wife, but thank God, I consider myself a survivor for that awful experience.
Oh how I wish you had not have to go thru this confusing and mental abuse. But may the Lord heal your anger at the injury and injustice and may He open His arms and heal you ❤
After watching this video, all the questions in my thoughts I've been keeping for so long now cleared..RZ has been coming to our country & the christian community held him in high respect.. after the exposure i can see that our community is divided, angry & confused..so the best thing we did is to never mention that name again but personally i felt lost with sooo many questions.. Thanks!! atlast I understood...
Thank you to all involved in this, it is helpful to hear from someone who was inside the ministry and the journey they have been on since the ministry’s collapse.
Watching this, I can’t help, but be struck at how similar this man’s experience is to growing up as a devout, Mormon, and then waking up to the idea that the founder of the Mormon church was a sexual predator that is still worshiped to this day in the church. so many similarities. The modern Christian church has created many Christian idol/leaders. I left the Mormon church, but I never left God. In fact, finding God helped me leave the Mormon church. When you are connected to the one true God, he gives you the strength to leave the other gods. He gets the glory. Praise Jesus.
When I heard about Ravi I was so incredibly disappointed. I was in seminary in '83-84 when Ravi was at Nyack. He had a radio program way back then and I found it helpful to me. Many years later I found his books in the bookstore and I had most of them. Then his program came back on the local radio station and I was listening again. But after awhile I realized they were the same programs over and over. There was nothing new. I believe like Balaam Ravi was called by God. And I believe like Balaam he fell. I am heartbroken for the defenseless women he molested. And because he brought shame to the name of Christian how many will struggle themselves to become Christians. And as angry as that makes me this also makes angry was there no one on his team or any men of God who saw he was falling away and could have confronted him before he fell? Even after he could have been confronted, given a chance to repent, and make restitution. How many people knew and did nothing because well 40 million is 40 million.
It seems Sir most of the people in RZIM was there for a job and a salary and not for the love of God. Having a good salary with all the perks, 9 to 5 job, who won't want such a job? The lad in the video seems he believed Ravi was Lord Jesus Christ instead of believing Ravi is just a man with all his weakness, what must trouble is why God did not protect him from getting spiritually destroyed and in the process destroying the life and families of so many other women. That must make us tremble.🤯🤯🤯
@@thomasranjit7781 I have mostly lived in small towns .so no mega churches. But even in small churches I've encountered too many pastors who acted like petty dictators. And to often its the fault of the people in the church. They didn't want to really study the Bible for themselves. The pastor had been to seminary so all they had to do was listen to him he'd done all the learning for them. I listened to a theologian who has a ministry and he discussed why he didn't name the ministry after himself. One reason was in fact because any donations would come in his name. Now all the people in the ministry who as you said are making a living working for the ministry have an incentive to protect that name. They don't want to accept something is wrong. I believe truly that God has given us free will. I don't doubt that God did give Ravi and the people in his ministry plenty of warnings and they chose not to heed them.
I pray that your personal story brings healing to those who have experienced similar situations. Some ministries can be compared to machines. Once the processes are set into motion and the money comes rolling in, the machine must be kept going: no-matter-what! I’m a parent of a young intern who is currently attending iHOPKC so I have a vested interest what is happening within that organization. I pray that the truth will prevail and if there is a coverup, it will be exposed.
Yes, my child is currently there. However, we are not talking much about the situation. He is truly enjoying the internship, making friends and creating heart warming memories.
The flashbacks were like those of a breakup when the person you were with disappointed, lied to & cheated on you. The thoughts /memories are intrusive. The overall experience is one of grief due to loss & pain..
Revelation 21:8 l used to listen to Ravi ,till I heard the disappointing news of Ravi . It was such a let down! I still feel so sad 😢 when I think about the deception. Oh l want all souls to escape everlasting 🔥 fire ! But each man and woman has a choice! God made a way for us to, but we should take Gods word serious. Gods word means what it say’s ! How in the world could Ravi put up such a good front ? It makes me pray for those that are still living and living in deception, that they would repent and ask God to forgive them while there’s still time! I want all my sin’s covered by the blood 🩸 of the Lamb 🐑 Jesus! Jesus is so precious to me ! He came to earth 🌍 as a babe. He grew up and suffered and died for you and me, because He loved us so much ! He made a way for us to heaven! But we need to read the Bible,so we know what the will of the Lord is ! Let’s not give up ! Jesus and heaven is worth living for !!!!! Pray 🙏 for the souls of men!
Im grateful for the truth whoever is telling it, Im still trying to discern my walk to Christ. satan is enjoying our confusion and as the world turns and lies are given and accepted in the name of God . I have left my church because they choose to tell me about about who and how to vote and believe in the world instead of in Christ 😔♥️🙏
❤😢💔🥺 thank you for this, this pattern is all too common, even at lower “levels” of Christian notoriety, or fame. may the Lord preserve his church, because those derelict leaders certainly are not doing anything to preserve it.
Having experienced spiritual abuse I understand what your going through. It seems no one wants to listen and just gaslight you. It took me years to recover and some in the church never did!!
Thank you for this talk, I've needed to hear from someone who has betrayed by his Christian community for a long time. It was very comforting to hear about his struggles in recovery, although I wouldn't wish this sort of thing on anyone. I've been dealing with betrayal within/by my former Christian fellowship for years, it helps to know that many of my feelings are normal and that the path out of that incredulity and hurt are normal. God bless you, brother.
Ravi impacted my life. The truth of whatever he was going through is in the hands of God. I will pray for him, his family, and his ministry. I thank God for Ravi. His messages and sermons resonated within our family at the right time, every time.
David Wood's reaction to the scandal made me feel a lot better when the truth came out. We must remember to work on ourselves, seek help, be honest, and admit our mistakes. If you want to change and receive God's forgiveness, admit the truth and set yourself free.
Has evangelicalism learned the big lesson? Building a ministry around a man (or a woman) and naming it after the icon is the sure path to failure. God will not share His glory with another. If we follow men, we are sure to be disappointed. Only one Man will never disappoint. This poor fellow idolized Ravi. He discovered that Ravi, like the rest of us, had feet of clay. American obsession with superstars in Christianity is a serious trap. "Turn your eyes upon Jesus; Look full in His wonderful face, And the things of earth will grow strangely dim, In the light of His glory and grace."
Yes, This helps. Ty. I was sickened by the many who believed ravi without hearing and learning all the facts. They wouldn't even look into it. That blind idol worship is sickening. If someone is innocent they don't mind questions. I've had plenty of church people hit in me. Married ones, too. Even in the counselors office. One even outright offered money, while their wife was just down the hall. These people are so *charismatic in personality. ( *Though not all people with charismatic personality are dishonest people who lack integrity).
For me it's been 20 years. I'm still recovering and might not completely recover in this lifetime. That's okay. It was never about me, it's always and forever about God. I'm writing this to comfort those who are also taking a long time to heal. Isaiah 40:1, "Comfort, yes, comfort my people." An early warning about RVIM was when they lost money to a Ponze scheme many years ago. Those who can't handle money shouldn't be trusted with the things of God.
Yes it happened to me too, I couldn't listen to anyone's sermon in that language so I moved to a second language Church after 3 months of stay home. It helped me and after a while I realized that they ( preacher) are just human and Satan has been on this planet for a long time and he has buried a lots of people. I started to pray for the Pastor and now when people are asking me about him I tell them: whatever I will be able to tell you it will be 20 years old and God can do many things in people life. Yes I refuse to talk about it and leave it to God he is big enough to take care of it. Regarding Zachariah it hurts vrei much but I give it to God . Be bless
No human should have this amount of control over your life, to the point you question God when they mess up. That's what I thoguht, until it happen to me. I never walked away from the faith, just question my ability to hear God. I believe God was talking to me on multiple occations to leave, but I choose to ignore, til I could ignore no more. It is hard. If you ever go through something like this, cling to the truth of the scripture, and come to the realization that the leader may not be a believer. Christian leaders do not behave this way. See this up close and personal. Using scripture to manipulate is a dead give away. Know the word for yourself. But know that things like this should cause us all to have pain and hurt. He was guilty and did not repent. I hope he got it right with God.
Thanks for posting this. I found this as a result of subscribing to "Uncommon Pursuit" and then I found out at the end of this video this man is it's founder. He has my sympathies. I'm glad he's found his new strength and I hope that his new ministry will be blessed by God for the expansion of His kingdom where Christians love the truth because Jesus is the personification and embodiment of the truth. These people at RZIM failed to run true to truth. Truth damns as well as blesses. I found Ravi disconcerting initially because I came from a different background. Eventually I understood and valued his messages. Even though I too was dissapointed and shocked with Ravi, I qualify my dissapointment with two things. 1. I know my own duplicitous heart. 2. "Jesus knew all men John 2:24-25 that they were sinners and fickle. So I never latched on to ANY minister of God because they're just as falible as I am. I'm more "disappointed" with the staff of the organization. Their modus operandi is to persue the deepest truth possible no matter how much it hurts. That's what it means to be Christ-like.
This persons ordeal saddens me greatly. There is a huge difference between those who "actually believe that this entity we call God exists" and those who use HIS NAME to promote themselves. That means, at some point in their lives they "will have to stand before this entity we call God" and answer to HIM. Personally, if I were in their shoes, I would be "terrified", and that includes those who knowingly support such people who are part of the lie.
Ravi was a complete fraudster. He surrounded himself with those who enabled his scam. A lot of money could not cover up what God was uncovering. Praise Jesus for His faithfulness! He alone is worthy of praise
I think we too often hold humans to such a high standard forgetting we are all sinners. We are all sinners, and luckily, we have the gift of forgiveness, and can be saved through grace, and the forgiveness of sin, no matter the degree. I sure hope he realized his sin, and asked for forgiveness before his death. Sin does not discriminate, and we need to realize Satan is very busy in our lives, and he can corrupt our hearts and tell us " it's ok, no big deal," and he is very powerful. We need to have our armor on, and be ready through prayer if certain temptations are strong. No matter the act, God will forgive our sins, if we confess them, and change. Putting certain people on a pedestal, can be very dangerous. Raving was a man, a human, and a sinner. I hope he saw the opportunity to repent before his death.
Yeah, well this kind of stuff keeps happening ( ex: Mike Bickle) I was utterly disgusted with the Zacharias debacle. But, we need to look to Jesus, and Him ALONE. The lesson should be to quit putting ministers and ministries on a pedestal. Besides, the Word of God itself tells us their will goats and tares among true believers.
I was very disappointed when I heard the news. I was not surprised when I heard the news.When you elevate an educated spiritual leader to star status and the star falls, you are confused and depressed.
The Evangelical church has been badly damaged. So many Christian ministries have imploded recently. In many cases, the failed organizations were by people who were elevated to star status who were later exposed as frauds or hypocrites. There is a lesson here. I loved listening to Ravi early in his career. He was smart, articulate, and passionate. Yet, he was corruptible and he succumbed to temptation. Despite the scandal, not all he said was useless, but he has a tarnished legacy. It’s a pity he passed away before he could own the truth and repair the damage he caused. The other lesson is about politics. If you are claiming to be a Christian and yet you support someone who repeatedly lies, makes fun of adversaries, belittles, or seeks personal power over doing what is right, examine whether or not you have elevated politics as a substitute for God. It takes a strong person to admit to having been blinded, or misled. But turning to a new direction is SO FREEING!
@@lindiharris-axon8167 There's a "power dynamic" in every single relationship, romantic or otherwise. Responsibility and Accountability, are Kryptonite to females. Do you want to be treated as an adult, or a child?
@@lindiharris-axon8167 So demanding responsibility and accountability from women who demand equality, is misogyny? ... ok, got it. Always the victim, right? This is why the Bible says that you should be quiet and listen. If you have questions, ask your husband later.
The thing that got me when I read about Ravi’s actions was that the master of logic had somehow justified these actions and then repeated them for so many years. If anyone should be able to reason their way out of committing sin, it should be RZ. When a sin becomes accepted in your mind, it can be very hard to finally reject it, repent and cling to God’s holiness. I suspect that RZ’s family and many who worked at RZIM were just in shock that any of this could be true and that’s why it was so hard to admit, especially about a beloved husband and father.
The Bible says In Thee O Lord do I put my trust. let me never be ashamed. that means he does not let you down or leave you feeling ashamed for trusting Him. But trust in man will cause shame because they will let you down and you feel foolish for placing trust in them.
My ex husband has recently married Ravi’s daughter,and my son is living w them,all of them believe he was framed,and I feel helpless as now my son is around the complete dysfunction.Any advice or thoughts??
I have questions and I have researched with what I have available Google and the internet but if what you say is true why didn't anyone go to the police or local authorities? Why would you just go to RZIM ? How can anyone be proven guilty or innocent when they never had a hearing of any kind?
@@johnnyvasquez3181I have been through similar circumstances. First of all Christians hesitate to take Christian leaders to court thinking that surely someone in the church will come to their aid and secondly the trauma is more than you can bear.
#1 thing is to ALWAYS remind your son to ask God for Wisdom and Discernment!! While you pray it for him too. #2 encourage him to relinquish his own thoughts and decisions to the leading of the Holy Spirit. “Lord, let me understand Your truth and what You want me to know!!Take away my own ideas and the influence of men so that there is only room for Your truth!!” You won’t even have to mention RZIM. Over time the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth IF we let Him!!! That flavor of Christianity weighs heavily on intellect and scholarly writings of man but leaves very little room for the work of the Holy Spirit, and it is a juggernaut of pastors, authors, ministries, websites and conferences that are literally everywhere which makes the majority believe it must be the ultimate authority. I’m praying for ALL involved and that many will come to the knowledge of the truth!! ☝🏼✝️👀
Ravi and his ministry partners couldn't have believed and feared God, if they had, they never, never would have chosen what brings death and judgement from God. Jesus knew all about betrayal from those who were closest to Him.
I’m so sorry to hear this story though I respect a man that can own up to his close minded thinking and be curious about all sides of the story. Victims of abuse always seem to have to prove they are victims and that what happened to them is OK. You would think Christians would be better at coming to their aid and yet we are so easily caught up in idolizing leaders and tribalism.
His opening comments just reveal that he put the MAN on a pedestal. "Ravi Zacharias spoke to me" He went to work for HIM, that was his blindness and trust in man. If you trust in man you are bound to fall. Why be angry against God? He put you there to teach you that you were trusting in man. Your idol fell just like the image of Baal in the temple of the Philistines. But thank God he is gracious and helps you to REPENT, and NOT be angry against the Lord. Repent of that sin!
“…he put the MAN on a pedestal”bet he’s not going to try that again 💀💀👀👀☕️☕️☕️ Nah, serious now, I’m glad he got out the RZIM hellscape. It’s better he figures out how corrupt they are than following them blindly down a cliff. I didn’t want to make the comparison to Jonestown at first, but given how many survivors of this scandal were left with blatant PTSD, it’s not far off to make the connection.
Sorry, as much as I admired (& still do) the invaluable contribution to Christian apologetics that Ravi gave us, I don't think you can compare him to CS Lewis. The latter wasn't only an apologist but a great creative mind who wrote astounding works both of fiction and non-fiction. Maybe the speaker is not that familiar with Lewis' work.
The trouble with the organisation is that the people were trying to defend the indefensible. This has nothing to do with the righteousness of Jesus which we receive in exchange for sin nailed to the cross. The final sin to be nailed by us on the cross is our pride. All our righteousness is as filthy rags. You may be the head of a large Christian organisation but unless Jesus is the owner and the CEO, the organisation will fail through sinful practices.
I’m so confused because my recollection of this scandal is that RZM ministries did investigate and admit that Ravi was guilty. I remember reading that they did hire independent investigators to look into it. What am I missing?
Any independent investigation that was done was long after the truth had had to come out via journalists. Over and over RZM had denied (and later taken down) his fabricated qualifications. 4 Investigations had been done by RZM and publishers etc and all found Ravi not guilty. Eventually Ravi's family, all employed by RZM, distanced themselves from the independent investigation and set up on their own continuing to say Ravi is innocent and reaping the financial gains.
Oh my--This is the typical playbook of how abusers and their victims stories unfold 😞 It’s almost verbatim how it all plays out-- Lies Gaslighting Deny Divert Avoid Scheme And the victims Give the benefit of the doubt over and over to their own disadvantage. It’s so subtle!! It’s so awful 😞 Then the light penetrates the fog and The Holy Spirit reveals teaches and guides us slowly to clarity. TGBTG 🕊️
Just like some people still think the election was stolen, Trump won the presidency. The reason the truth didn’t come out before he was gone, probably because he had the authority to cover it up. And he was good at smooth talking and manipulate.
I have questions I have researched with what resources I have Google and the internet but it you what you say is true why didn't anyone go to the police or local authorities and file charges? Why would you just go to RZIM ? How can you prove someone guilty or innocent whiteout any kind of legal hearing or trial? It seems that the motivation is not what you can prove or the truth and why is that? What is the motive?
1. Because Christians try to follow the principle laid out in 1 Corinthians 6:1-11 2. The sexual transgressons happened outside of the U.S. Evidence can be accumulated by anyone who has to capacity to think critically. He weighed the data points of the positives and negatives on a spread sheet. Eventually more data came in that became "the straw that broke the camel's back" Given what Carson laid out before us as evidence, why can't you recognize that it IS evidence? as opposed to merely opining opinion? Apparently, the leadership of RZIM declared to all that they wanted full disclosure in the name of truth. But if they're not going to take steps to take down the NDA, then that's not full disclosure. It's hiding something. Really, it's failing to run true to truth.
King David, a man after God's own heart had his share of sins, failures, scandals yet we don't disregard the Psalms he wrote, lessons learned from his faith, slaying Goliath. We are all sinners. The more one serves God the more Satan will try to shipwreck their reputation & ministry. Love covers a multitude of sins, forgive & forget. Leave this dead man & his family & that former ministry in peace.
The investigating law firm's report said that Ravi did not own the spa. The guilt or innocence of a person is not determined by investigators. It's determined by a court.
You said it best when you said, “I don’t know.” You clearly have no appreciation for the imbalance of power that exists in these situations and the dynamics of abusive relationships. Please educate yourself.
@@lornadoone8887Joseph in Scripture is a good model about what to do when a person of authority tempts you to sin; flee even if it means leaving your clothes. We need to stop fearing man and start fearing God. God says no adultery and fornication, period. There's no "unless" anywhere. When someone knows Who they obey then that gives courage to make the right decision.
Yes, it is. On JFK, listen to RFK, Jr. The truth is known, but the corrupt remain in power, so the cover up continues perpetrated. The Scriptures never promise that the wicked will be punished and truth and justice prevail IN THIS LIFE. Often they affirm just the opposite is frequently the case in a world given over because of sin to the powers of darkness. We must grapple with the reality the Lord allows evil because He has ordained the true freedom of the will in his rational creatures. He redeems all for those who repent.
Not funny. First, you’re asking for money coming out the gate. Then you call someone a “liar” - which is against the Bible - and people LAUGH! You have nothing to offer me.
He said "Julie Roys is a liar" (She was the one who posted the video and in the introductory she was advocating his message) Most people would have edited that out. She didn't. People laughed because they KNEW that Julie and Carson are friends, and a friend wouldn't have done that. In fact, later on in this video he admitted that he had to appologize to Julie because he hadn't initially believed her. Once he established the facts after looking into this, he reached out to her. So... you're not getting the joke, whereas the people in the audience did.
Please go to defendingravi to read the update as Christian we become condemn if we ourselves dont properly apply the correct justice. There were no photos none that is the update they cannot prove it.
You people need to step down from ministry all together, stop trying to recover your financial status. Just go away quietly and recover privately for the rest of your lives.
Hopefully, you will take your own advice should you ever find yourself in the same position. According to you, families should go destitute when their breadwinner chooses integrity over continuing with an organization discovered to have been covering up misconduct and corruption. Further, that approach enables the abuser to continue the abuse. Completely unbiblical and unacceptable!
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What an incredibly generous act of personal expression in support of anyone who has experienced abuse, experienced a rupture of their faith, and had to face the ordeal of re-examining their values, worldview, and community in order to align with truth. You're a brave and shining example of how to do it with integrity. Thank you.
May God Bless all reading this, All Glory to Jesus Christ.
Yeah, well articulated and I am glad he rediscovered his faith. But many have shipwrecked their faith for making a hero of a man. This is the chief idol of man!
Amen!! Well said!
Thank you, Carson, for not giving up on God when a man we all used to respect disappointed you. What he taught was GOOD. What he did behind scenes was BAD, and I am very sorry to hear that RZIM has not admitted this to be true. God is the final Judge and all will be revealed. Keep on in the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.
God is certainly smashing our idols, our golden calves, today.
People who are guilty….usually try to silence the people who question them!! Unfortunately we just cannot put our trust in people….only in Jesus Christ!! Thank you for sharing your journey! God bless you!!
Thankyou for this comment elsiezimmerman. I've watched the downfall of Christians who unknowingly worshiped the "teacher", and not THE ONE we were learning about..thus when the teacher proved to have feet of clay--their own legs weakened, and their faith fell away😢. Keep your eyes upon Jesus, and only upon Jesus❤
@@Littledove-mw1edWhich is why Jesus said for us to not call anyone "teacher". He is the only teacher.
I know for a fact that PTSD from spiritual abuse is a reality. “Getting better” is a non-linear journey as Carson so eloquently testified. Thanks to both Carson and Julie. Please keep the conversation going.
The Times they are a Changin'
Very encouraging Sir, keep going, keep telling the story of the utter dislocation and emotionally inexpressible pain of spiritual abuse.
There are so many who suffer in silence, with NO place to be truly heard, or helped to recover.
Thanks be to God, for HIS truth!
The bride belongs to the bridegroom. Jn 3.26
John 3:26:
26 And they came unto John, and said unto him,
Rabbi, he that was with you beyond Jordan,
to whom you bear witness, behold, the same baptizes,
and all men come to him.
This talk totally met me where I am at. Thank you, Carson, for your vulnerable and honest expression of your journey. I've found myself in a similar battle, grappling and struggling to see light and hold on to hope. Your words are a reminder that there can be more and that the traumatic experiences of our past have changed us, but not destroyed us. Thank you!
When you come out of these things you must get delivered from the spirits that previously controlled your mind
Right - it's ok to not be ok. I have to constantly remind myself of that truth.
I hope some day to be able to tell my story, for others' benefit, like you did, Carson.
Thank you for exposing the truth, Carson. I felt gut - punched when I found out Ravi's prolonged abuses.
I totally relate to this story. I was spiritually abused by my pastor and his wife, but thank God, I consider myself a survivor for that awful experience.
Oh how I wish you had not have to go thru this confusing and mental abuse. But may the Lord heal your anger at the injury and injustice and may He open His arms and heal you ❤
After watching this video, all the questions in my thoughts I've been keeping for so long now cleared..RZ has been coming to our country & the christian community held him in high respect.. after the exposure i can see that our community is divided, angry & confused..so the best thing we did is to never mention that name again but personally i felt lost with sooo many questions..
Thanks!! atlast I understood...
Thank you to all involved in this, it is helpful to hear from someone who was inside the ministry and the journey they have been on since the ministry’s collapse.
Watching this, I can’t help, but be struck at how similar this man’s experience is to growing up as a devout, Mormon, and then waking up to the idea that the founder of the Mormon church was a sexual predator that is still worshiped to this day in the church. so many similarities. The modern Christian church has created many Christian idol/leaders. I left the Mormon church, but I never left God. In fact, finding God helped me leave the Mormon church. When you are connected to the one true God, he gives you the strength to leave the other gods. He gets the glory. Praise Jesus.
When I heard about Ravi I was so incredibly disappointed. I was in seminary in '83-84 when Ravi was at Nyack. He had a radio program way back then and I found it helpful to me. Many years later I found his books in the bookstore and I had most of them. Then his program came back on the local radio station and I was listening again. But after awhile I realized they were the same programs over and over. There was nothing new.
I believe like Balaam Ravi was called by God. And I believe like Balaam he fell. I am heartbroken for the defenseless women he molested. And because he brought shame to the name of Christian how many will struggle themselves to become Christians.
And as angry as that makes me this also makes angry was there no one on his team or any men of God who saw he was falling away and could have confronted him before he fell? Even after he could have been confronted, given a chance to repent, and make restitution.
How many people knew and did nothing because well 40 million is 40 million.
It seems Sir most of the people in RZIM was there for a job and a salary and not for the love of God. Having a good salary with all the perks, 9 to 5 job, who won't want such a job? The lad in the video seems he believed Ravi was Lord Jesus Christ instead of believing Ravi is just a man with all his weakness, what must trouble is why God did not protect him from getting spiritually destroyed and in the process destroying the life and families of so many other women. That must make us tremble.🤯🤯🤯
@@thomasranjit7781 I have mostly lived in small towns .so no mega churches. But even in small churches I've encountered too many pastors who acted like petty dictators. And to often its the fault of the people in the church. They didn't want to really study the Bible for themselves. The pastor had been to seminary so all they had to do was listen to him he'd done all the learning for them.
I listened to a theologian who has a ministry and he discussed why he didn't name the ministry after himself. One reason was in fact because any donations would come in his name. Now all the people in the ministry who as you said are making a living working for the ministry have an incentive to protect that name. They don't want to accept something is wrong.
I believe truly that God has given us free will. I don't doubt that God did give Ravi and the people in his ministry plenty of warnings and they chose not to heed them.
Hindsight is 20 20. There weren't 40 million people in a position to do something, only a few.
That’s how I see it.
@@georgewagner7787I think he was talking about money?
I pray that your personal story brings healing to those who have experienced similar situations. Some ministries can be compared to machines. Once the processes are set into motion and the money comes rolling in, the machine must be kept going: no-matter-what!
I’m a parent of a young intern who is currently attending iHOPKC so I have a vested interest what is happening within that organization. I pray that the truth will prevail and if there is a coverup, it will be exposed.
So your child is there while they're cleaning up the mess with Mike Bickle.
Yes, my child is currently there. However, we are not talking much about the situation. He is truly enjoying the internship, making friends and creating heart warming memories.
The flashbacks were like those of a breakup when the person you were with disappointed, lied to & cheated on you. The thoughts /memories are intrusive. The overall experience is one of grief due to loss & pain..
Revelation 21:8 l used to listen to Ravi ,till I heard the disappointing news of Ravi . It was such a let down! I still feel so sad 😢 when I think about the deception. Oh l want all souls to escape everlasting 🔥 fire ! But each man and woman has a choice! God made a way for us to, but we should take Gods word serious. Gods word means what it say’s ! How in the world could Ravi put up such a good front ? It makes me pray for those that are still living and living in deception, that they would repent and ask God to forgive them while there’s still time!
I want all my sin’s covered by the blood 🩸 of the Lamb 🐑 Jesus! Jesus is so precious to me ! He came to earth 🌍 as a babe. He grew up and suffered and died for you and me, because He loved us so much ! He made a way for us to heaven! But we need to read the Bible,so we know what the will of the Lord is !
Let’s not give up ! Jesus and heaven is worth living for !!!!! Pray 🙏 for the souls of men!
Im grateful for the truth whoever is telling it, Im still trying to discern my walk to Christ. satan is enjoying our confusion and as the world turns and lies are given and accepted in the name of God . I have left my church because they choose to tell me about about who and how to vote and believe in the world instead of in Christ 😔♥️🙏
❤😢💔🥺 thank you for this, this pattern is all too common, even at lower “levels” of Christian notoriety, or fame. may the Lord preserve his church, because those derelict leaders certainly are not doing anything to preserve it.
Having experienced spiritual abuse I understand what your going through. It seems no one wants to listen and just gaslight you. It took me years to recover and some in the church never did!!
This reminds us all to listen to every side of the argument and let the test of time be the ultimate proof of truth.
Thank you for this talk, I've needed to hear from someone who has betrayed by his Christian community for a long time. It was very comforting to hear about his struggles in recovery, although I wouldn't wish this sort of thing on anyone. I've been dealing with betrayal within/by my former Christian fellowship for years, it helps to know that many of my feelings are normal and that the path out of that incredulity and hurt are normal. God bless you, brother.
Thank you for sharing this, it was so worth listening to!
Thank you for sharing and being so real and vulnerable. God will use this pain for your good.
This is heartbreaking. 😢
Thank you for making this available.
Ravi impacted my life. The truth of whatever he was going through is in the hands of God. I will pray for him, his family, and his ministry. I thank God for Ravi. His messages and sermons resonated within our family at the right time, every time.
No use in praying for the dead. They are in God's hands now.
David Wood's reaction to the scandal made me feel a lot better when the truth came out.
We must remember to work on ourselves, seek help, be honest, and admit our mistakes. If you want to change and receive God's forgiveness, admit the truth and set yourself free.
Has evangelicalism learned the big lesson? Building a ministry around a man (or a woman) and naming it after the icon is the sure path to failure. God will not share His glory with another. If we follow men, we are sure to be disappointed. Only one Man will never disappoint. This poor fellow idolized Ravi. He discovered that Ravi, like the rest of us, had feet of clay. American obsession with superstars in Christianity is a serious trap. "Turn your eyes upon Jesus; Look full in His wonderful face, And the things of earth will grow strangely dim, In the light of His glory and grace."
What you say here is pretty much Revelation knowledge. So true! Thank you.
I believe, like jabenicholson8862
Thank You for this .I was a supporter of RZM. and contacted the ministry when this came to light....NO response...Crickets.
Yes, This helps. Ty.
I was sickened by the many who believed ravi without hearing and learning all the facts. They wouldn't even look into it. That blind idol worship is sickening. If someone is innocent they don't mind questions. I've had plenty of church people hit in me. Married ones, too. Even in the counselors office. One even outright offered money, while their wife was just down the hall. These people are so *charismatic in personality. ( *Though not all people with charismatic personality are dishonest people who lack integrity).
For me it's been 20 years. I'm still recovering and might not completely recover in this lifetime. That's okay. It was never about me, it's always and forever about God. I'm writing this to comfort those who are also taking a long time to heal. Isaiah 40:1, "Comfort, yes, comfort my people."
An early warning about RVIM was when they lost money to a Ponze scheme many years ago. Those who can't handle money shouldn't be trusted with the things of God.
Amen
Yes it happened to me too, I couldn't listen to anyone's sermon in that language so I moved to a second language Church after 3 months of stay home. It helped me and after a while I realized that they ( preacher) are just human and Satan has been on this planet for a long time and he has buried a lots of people. I started to pray for the Pastor and now when people are asking me about him I tell them: whatever I will be able to tell you it will be 20 years old and God can do many things in people life. Yes I refuse to talk about it and leave it to God he is big enough to take care of it. Regarding Zachariah it hurts vrei much but I give it to God . Be bless
No human should have this amount of control over your life, to the point you question God when they mess up. That's what I thoguht, until it happen to me. I never walked away from the faith, just question my ability to hear God. I believe God was talking to me on multiple occations to leave, but I choose to ignore, til I could ignore no more. It is hard. If you ever go through something like this, cling to the truth of the scripture, and come to the realization that the leader may not be a believer. Christian leaders do not behave this way. See this up close and personal. Using scripture to manipulate is a dead give away. Know the word for yourself. But know that things like this should cause us all to have pain and hurt. He was guilty and did not repent. I hope he got it right with God.
Excellent …thank u for posting this. It helps remind us of Gods provision in deep struggles and disappointments 🇨🇦 ❤
Thanks for posting this. I found this as a result of subscribing to "Uncommon Pursuit" and then I found out at the end of this video this man is it's founder. He has my sympathies. I'm glad he's found his new strength and I hope that his new ministry will be blessed by God for the expansion of His kingdom where Christians love the truth because Jesus is the personification and embodiment of the truth. These people at RZIM failed to run true to truth. Truth damns as well as blesses.
I found Ravi disconcerting initially because I came from a different background. Eventually I understood and valued his messages.
Even though I too was dissapointed and shocked with Ravi, I qualify my dissapointment with two things. 1. I know my own duplicitous heart. 2. "Jesus knew all men John 2:24-25 that they were sinners and fickle. So I never latched on to ANY minister of God because they're just as falible as I am.
I'm more "disappointed" with the staff of the organization. Their modus operandi is to persue the deepest truth possible no matter how much it hurts. That's what it means to be Christ-like.
What a journey!😢 My brother I am proud of you! God bless you!
Thanks for sharing this! 😢❤
Thank you for posting.
This persons ordeal saddens me greatly. There is a huge difference between those who "actually believe that this entity we call God exists" and those who use HIS NAME to promote themselves. That means, at some point in their lives they "will have to stand before this entity we call God" and answer to HIM. Personally, if I were in their shoes, I would be "terrified", and that includes those who knowingly support such people who are part of the lie.
Ravi was a complete fraudster. He surrounded himself with those who enabled his scam. A lot of money could not cover up what God was uncovering.
Praise Jesus for His faithfulness! He alone is worthy of praise
Excellent
I think we too often hold humans to such a high standard forgetting we are all sinners. We are all sinners, and luckily, we have the gift of forgiveness, and can be saved through grace, and the forgiveness of sin, no matter the degree. I sure hope he realized his sin, and asked for forgiveness before his death. Sin does not discriminate, and we need to realize Satan is very busy in our lives, and he can corrupt our hearts and tell us " it's ok, no big deal," and he is very powerful. We need to have our armor on, and be ready through prayer if certain temptations are strong. No matter the act, God will forgive our sins, if we confess them, and change. Putting certain people on a pedestal, can be very dangerous. Raving was a man, a human, and a sinner. I hope he saw the opportunity to repent before his death.
Thank you for truth.
Yeah, well this kind of stuff keeps happening ( ex: Mike Bickle) I was utterly disgusted with the Zacharias debacle. But, we need to look to Jesus, and Him ALONE. The lesson should be to quit putting ministers and ministries on a pedestal. Besides, the Word of God itself tells us their will goats and tares among true believers.
I was very disappointed when I heard the news. I was not surprised when I heard the news.When you elevate an educated spiritual leader to star status and the star falls, you are confused and depressed.
When we look to men to do what is right Jesus is there. I have been damaged and hurt and sometimes we just have to keep trusting.
The Evangelical church has been badly damaged. So many Christian ministries have imploded recently. In many cases, the failed organizations were by people who were elevated to star status who were later exposed as frauds or hypocrites. There is a lesson here.
I loved listening to Ravi early in his career. He was smart, articulate, and passionate. Yet, he was corruptible and he succumbed to temptation. Despite the scandal, not all he said was useless, but he has a tarnished legacy. It’s a pity he passed away before he could own the truth and repair the damage he caused.
The other lesson is about politics. If you are claiming to be a Christian and yet you support someone who repeatedly lies, makes fun of adversaries, belittles, or seeks personal power over doing what is right, examine whether or not you have elevated politics as a substitute for God. It takes a strong person to admit to having been blinded, or misled. But turning to a new direction is SO FREEING!
Thank you.
As an outsider, I find it interesting that the women were willing participants, yet they're not held accountable. We treat them like children.
@@lindiharris-axon8167
There's a "power dynamic" in every single relationship, romantic or otherwise. Responsibility and Accountability, are Kryptonite to females.
Do you want to be treated as an adult, or a child?
@@lindiharris-axon8167
So demanding responsibility and accountability from women who demand equality, is misogyny? ... ok, got it. Always the victim, right?
This is why the Bible says that you should be quiet and listen. If you have questions, ask your husband later.
This is so good❤..praise God for His Restorative...Hand upon Carter .❤❤❤
The thing that got me when I read about Ravi’s actions was that the master of logic had somehow justified these actions and then repeated them for so many years. If anyone should be able to reason their way out of committing sin, it should be RZ. When a sin becomes accepted in your mind, it can be very hard to finally reject it, repent and cling to God’s holiness. I suspect that RZ’s family and many who worked at RZIM were just in shock that any of this could be true and that’s why it was so hard to admit, especially about a beloved husband and father.
Truth stands. Always.
The truth will set you free
God bless this man
Worth watching
Void of the Spirit...head knowledge but no conscience?
When you worship a leader or ministry, you're so emotionally blind you can't imagine that they're capable of wrong doing of a heinous degree!
And that's a huge problem when we make leaders our fans or stars!
And the US Christians world is sadly full of such idols! Many in mega ministries and churches
@@charlesm9190 truth
You only worship GOD
brother
Bunch of hipocrites ,
Swallow the whole camel , and shocking in a hair.
Whose casting the first stone ,
The Bible says In Thee O Lord do I put my trust. let me never be ashamed. that means he does not let you down or leave you feeling ashamed for trusting Him. But trust in man will cause shame because they will let you down and you feel foolish for placing trust in them.
Psalms ... very human but very spiritual too 💔🌿
When money meets God, money usually wins.
My ex husband has recently married Ravi’s daughter,and my son is living w them,all of them believe he was framed,and I feel helpless as now my son is around the complete dysfunction.Any advice or thoughts??
💙💙💙 I don't know what advice can be given in this context for such a difficult situation. My heart goes out to you and I will be praying for you.
I have questions and I have researched with what I have available Google and the internet but if what you say is true why didn't anyone go to the police or local authorities? Why would you just go to RZIM ? How can anyone be proven guilty or innocent when they never had a hearing of any kind?
@@johnnyvasquez3181I have been through similar circumstances. First of all Christians hesitate to take Christian leaders to court thinking that surely someone in the church will come to their aid and secondly the trauma is more than you can bear.
#1 thing is to ALWAYS remind your son to ask God for Wisdom and Discernment!! While you pray it for him too.
#2 encourage him to relinquish his own thoughts and decisions to the leading of the Holy Spirit. “Lord, let me understand Your truth and what You want me to know!!Take away my own ideas and the influence of men so that there is only room for Your truth!!”
You won’t even have to mention RZIM. Over time the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth IF we let Him!!! That flavor of Christianity weighs heavily on intellect and scholarly writings of man but leaves very little room for the work of the Holy Spirit, and it is a juggernaut of pastors, authors, ministries, websites and conferences that are literally everywhere which makes the majority believe it must be the ultimate authority.
I’m praying for ALL involved and that many will come to the knowledge of the truth!! ☝🏼✝️👀
Ravi's daughter is the best part of his family. Your son should be OK with you to also to guard over him.
Ravi and his ministry partners couldn't have believed and feared God, if they had, they never, never would have chosen what brings death and judgement from God. Jesus knew all about betrayal from those who were closest to Him.
I’m so sorry to hear this story though I respect a man that can own up to his close minded thinking and be curious about all sides of the story. Victims of abuse always seem to have to prove they are victims and that what happened to them is OK. You would think Christians would be better at coming to their aid and yet we are so easily caught up in idolizing leaders and tribalism.
His opening comments just reveal that he put the MAN on a pedestal. "Ravi Zacharias spoke to me" He went to work for HIM, that was his blindness and trust in man. If you trust in man you are bound to fall. Why be angry against God? He put you there to teach you that you were trusting in man. Your idol fell just like the image of Baal in the temple of the Philistines. But thank God he is gracious and helps you to REPENT, and NOT be angry against the Lord. Repent of that sin!
“…he put the MAN on a pedestal”bet he’s not going to try that again 💀💀👀👀☕️☕️☕️
Nah, serious now, I’m glad he got out the RZIM hellscape. It’s better he figures out how corrupt they are than following them blindly down a cliff. I didn’t want to make the comparison to Jonestown at first, but given how many survivors of this scandal were left with blatant PTSD, it’s not far off to make the connection.
People- Stop following "pastors" and "leaders". Follow God. The Church does not belong to a man. It is Jesus' church. His bride.
He followed men more then God, when men fell so did he. Then for the first time really meet God.
That was great
He could really help Mike Bickle people at IHOP
Ravi was arrogant and defensive and a liar. Greatest apologist? No way, Hose.
🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Sorry, as much as I admired (& still do) the invaluable contribution to Christian apologetics that Ravi gave us, I don't think you can compare him to CS Lewis. The latter wasn't only an apologist but a great creative mind who wrote astounding works both of fiction and non-fiction. Maybe the speaker is not that familiar with Lewis' work.
So much defeatism in all of the talk and comments God is greater than our enemy. To live daily in His word His will His way is Victories
Sad that we follow men instead of Jesus and then we blame him for our disappointments.😢
Van Buren, Ohio
The trouble with the organisation is that the people were trying to defend the indefensible. This has nothing to do with the righteousness of Jesus which we receive in exchange for sin nailed to the cross. The final sin to be nailed by us on the cross is our pride. All our righteousness is as filthy rags. You may be the head of a large Christian organisation but unless Jesus is the owner and the CEO, the organisation will fail through sinful practices.
Money is a powerful god!
Things that make you go hmmm
I’m so confused because my recollection of this scandal is that RZM ministries did investigate and admit that Ravi was guilty. I remember reading that they did hire independent investigators to look into it. What am I missing?
It was an outward sham...unfortunately.
Any independent investigation that was done was long after the truth had had to come out via journalists. Over and over RZM had denied (and later taken down) his fabricated qualifications. 4 Investigations had been done by RZM and publishers etc and all found Ravi not guilty. Eventually Ravi's family, all employed by RZM, distanced themselves from the independent investigation and set up on their own continuing to say Ravi is innocent and reaping the financial gains.
Oh my--This is the typical playbook of how abusers and their victims stories unfold 😞
It’s almost verbatim how it all plays out--
Lies
Gaslighting
Deny
Divert
Avoid
Scheme
And the victims
Give the benefit of the doubt over and over to their own disadvantage. It’s so subtle!! It’s so awful 😞
Then the light penetrates the fog and The Holy Spirit reveals teaches and guides us slowly to clarity.
TGBTG 🕊️
I still don't believe Ravi was guiltily of abuse.
Why didn't anything come out before he died?
Why did they wait until Ravi can't defend himself?
Just like some people still think the election was stolen, Trump won the presidency.
The reason the truth didn’t come out before he was gone, probably because he had the authority to cover it up. And he was good at smooth talking and manipulate.
I have questions I have researched with what resources I have Google and the internet but it you what you say is true why didn't anyone go to the police or local authorities and file charges? Why would you just go to RZIM ? How can you prove someone guilty or innocent whiteout any kind of legal hearing or trial? It seems that the motivation is not what you can prove or the truth and why is that? What is the motive?
1. Because Christians try to follow the principle laid out in 1 Corinthians 6:1-11
2. The sexual transgressons happened outside of the U.S.
Evidence can be accumulated by anyone who has to capacity to think critically. He weighed the data points of the positives and negatives on a spread sheet. Eventually more data came in that became "the straw that broke the camel's back"
Given what Carson laid out before us as evidence, why can't you recognize that it IS evidence? as opposed to merely opining opinion?
Apparently, the leadership of RZIM declared to all that they wanted full disclosure in the name of truth. But if they're not going to take steps to take down the NDA, then that's not full disclosure. It's hiding something. Really, it's failing to run true to truth.
King David, a man after God's own heart had his share of sins, failures, scandals yet we don't disregard the Psalms he wrote, lessons learned from his faith, slaying Goliath. We are all sinners. The more one serves God the more Satan will try to shipwreck their reputation & ministry. Love covers a multitude of sins, forgive & forget. Leave this dead man & his family & that former ministry in peace.
King David repented, Ravi unfortunately didn't...
The investigating law firm's report said that Ravi did not own the spa. The guilt or innocence of a person is not determined by investigators. It's determined by a court.
I dont know, but for me, It always takes two to tango. She is not a minor, she is not a ca tive. She made her own decisions, I dont know.
You said it best when you said, “I don’t know.” You clearly have no appreciation for the imbalance of power that exists in these situations and the dynamics of abusive relationships. Please educate yourself.
@@lornadoone8887Joseph in Scripture is a good model about what to do when a person of authority tempts you to sin; flee even if it means leaving your clothes.
We need to stop fearing man and start fearing God. God says no adultery and fornication, period. There's no "unless" anywhere. When someone knows Who they obey then that gives courage to make the right decision.
Too much talk after ravi.s death . It doesn't make sense. Remember jfk s assassination is still not solved. Yet Ravi.s has become cut and dried????
Yes, it is. On JFK, listen to RFK, Jr. The truth is known, but the corrupt remain in power, so the cover up continues perpetrated. The Scriptures never promise that the wicked will be punished and truth and justice prevail IN THIS LIFE. Often they affirm just the opposite is frequently the case in a world given over because of sin to the powers of darkness. We must grapple with the reality the Lord allows evil because He has ordained the true freedom of the will in his rational creatures. He redeems all for those who repent.
What is a Christian?
Roman's 10:9 in the simplest terms. But the whole Bible is a testament to help you to understand what 10:9 means.
Not funny. First, you’re asking for money coming out the gate. Then you call someone a “liar” - which is against the Bible - and people LAUGH! You have nothing to offer me.
What are you talking about?
He said "Julie Roys is a liar" (She was the one who posted the video and in the introductory she was advocating his message) Most people would have edited that out. She didn't. People laughed because they KNEW that Julie and Carson are friends, and a friend wouldn't have done that. In fact, later on in this video he admitted that he had to appologize to Julie because he hadn't initially believed her. Once he established the facts after looking into this, he reached out to her.
So... you're not getting the joke, whereas the people in the audience did.
...they used Jesus to get money..
Isn't it easy to accuse someone after they have died.. Sorry for timing is very suspicious.
Please go to defendingravi to read the update as Christian we become condemn if we ourselves dont properly apply the correct justice. There were no photos none that is the update they cannot prove it.
Spirit of betrayal 😊😊
You people need to step down from ministry all together, stop trying to recover your financial status. Just go away quietly and recover privately for the rest of your lives.
Hopefully, you will take your own advice should you ever find yourself in the same position. According to you, families should go destitute when their breadwinner chooses integrity over continuing with an organization discovered to have been covering up misconduct and corruption. Further, that approach enables the abuser to continue the abuse. Completely unbiblical and unacceptable!
Sadly Julie thinks it is ok to misrepresent things to achieve what she thinks is the best outcome in her opinion..