This was a great discussion! This is why it’s great to have dealers around bc they offer unique insights that’s the manufacturers and consumers simply don’t have the perspective to know. Product release fatigue is real. Everyone is exhausted.
@@tonecast1 I’m 59 and have been playing since I was 15 and there’s just too much gear out there and there’s always someone on TH-cam hawking this stuff besides the fact that these Chinese manufacturers are marketing some pretty good stuff at a good price and because they’re either marketing through Amazon or direct it makes their products very affordable. My Alex Lifeson / Rush days are over so I just use a few pedals to get my tone so I can play the blues. I still play some old tunes though. I even bought a guitar tuner pedal.😂🙄
20 minutes well worth my time!!! I do think guitar players (myself included) chasing gear they couldn't afford when they were younger on Reverb makes it tough to reintroduce lines and launch new ones.
I still have my Poss distortion that I bought with my 1st electric back in the late 80's. It's a great pedal! 2 knobs, set it & forget it. I haven't found anything else yet that makes me want to use it over the Ross. Check out Josh's reaction video to John Nathan Cordy's well-meaning but misinformed video on how pedal makers are making a killing. After watching, while I already had great esteem for Josh as a builder and content maker, he's cemented into my pantheon of humble, honest, kind people in the guitar and TH-cam world.
My impression is that Josh's pedal company is so successful, because he is an incredibly bright and insightful person who found his calling. He was much kinder in his review of John Nathan Cordy's video than he had to be. Josh is one of the smart ones, but even genius business people make the wrong call on products sometimes. That's how they learn and get smarter.
Cordy's video was not well meaning in any way. It was pure dunning-kruger. They guy should just stick to playing guitar, because he doesnt know a thing about how businesses work.
@@weschilton But maybe he does know something about making money. He somehow knew that the video would get a lot of clicks, so far 24k. And now he posted another related one, all for more clicks I'd imagine. As for well meaning or not, that is subjective. But he is making money off our views of his content.
One more caveat from 45 years in the wholesale shoe biz; Adage 1: Your earliest markdowns are your cheapest markdowns. Why? Because of aging inventory. The minute an item hits your floor, a clock starts ticking. Unless it' a core re order item (strings, for example), it's worth less each day it sits on your floor. It's imperative to watch the "turn" rate and judge the item without emotion. If it isn't turning as soon as it hits, it's not likely to start turning any faster as it ages. "if it ain't sellin, it ain't likely start anytime soon". So, as a retailer, it's vital to recognize your worst items immediately, mark them down to the price that will sell them out, and reinvest that money into better items ASAP. Realistic judgment on Inventory turn forces you to get out the bad items quickly and buy more good ones. Retail 101.
Guys, let’s be honest here, I’m 60 years old just as a reference and grew up in the era of these pedals and nobody cared about Ross pedals then. I never saw one of these pedals on anybody’s board growing up and playing around here in Cleveland. I never heard of pros using them, and if they did, nobody was talking about it. What a terrible decision to try to bring back a brand nobody cared about in the first place.
I’m 59 and you’re spot on. I bought DOD pedals because they were a good budget pedal that was sold at the music store I took lessons at. Boss and MXR were out of reach for. I hardly remember Ross.
I had some MXR, EH, Boss and Maestro stuff with a cry baby. I saw ROSS ads in GP magazine but never saw them in stores in my area. We had some good shops around here too in the Cleveland area.
Yes. I remember the Ross name from that time but there was never the same buzz about them as there was for MXR etc. I didn't see them as A list pedals. I love what Josh does at JHS though and admire him for realizing his ambition to recreate Ross.
When I was growing up I never met anyone that gassed on ROSS pedals.. Ibanez, BOSS, MXR, and some others yes but ROSS was rarely seen. I'm not shocked the remakes didn't take off.
Never heard of Ross pedals, its really awesome how something can be so under the radar, but still so important to specific people. I'm nutty like this about some pretty esoteric things myself
I know it’s only a problem when the market conditions are on the side of the consumer, but there’s a lot of stuff on the guitar market that is high quality, well made, and is roughly the same as 50 other things next to it on the shelves.
I just figured the JHS Ross stuff wasn’t for me but everybody else would dig it. My dad said “You’re uncle Burt used to sell those in his shop in Tallahassee.” That was 1978. I guess it just wasn’t the right time. I love JHS and it’s a bummer the line didn’t make it because Josh was paying royalties to the Ross family and I’m sure they could have benefited from a little extra dough like the rest of us. Josh wasn’t making 💩 from that line. And he knew he never would.
And I think that's part of the problem. Josh did this line for the history and the people behind Ross. But it just wasn't a brand that the public was excited about. Most people had little experience with the originals, there weren't a ton of famous players that were playing the originals prominently, and the designs just were pretty plain, there just wasn't a lot for people to get excited about. If it wasn't for the JHS connection I don't think they would have sold even a third of what they did.
Thanks gentelmen for sharing your thoughts and insights on this topic, I'm 67 years old now and remember buying my first distortion pedal which was a Ross kinda of a brown colored stomp box when I was 17 which sounded great! I also had a Plush tube combo Amp. that I put together from a store called Orvac Electronics I also had a pasley American made Tele. with a P90 stuck in the middle and wow! what a sound! The only company that survived because of all the competition today is Fender! Long live Fender prouducts they did it right from the very beginning.
They launched the Ross pedals during an economy that people felt they could spend. I don’t know anyone now with extra money to buy pedals outside of their niche or at all for that matter.
Bidenomics - Obamalanomics destroyed the U.S. economy! Fact. I have two Boss Katana ARTIST combo amps listed locally for $300 each, and nobody has a dime to scrape together to buy one. TRUMP is coming soon and will MAGA!
Yep, the market is saturated and people are burnt out. Also, a pedal will never make you a better player. I think people are finally realizing this. If you are a great player you don't need anything more than 2 or 3 of the classic pedals that have been around forever and are on all the records you love and "have the sound" you want. haha
I'm actually shocked there's as many producers and companies as there is. It's almost like people just horde pedals now, like they're a collectable item. That mentality started happening when people start making them like a little piece of art.
I respect his opinion, but I don't think that's the reason. I think it's because there was really nothing to get excited about, they didn't look exciting, they didn't offer anything new or interesting, and not a lot of people were very familiar with the originals. I think they seemed outdated to a lot of people. You either need a strong tradition of successful guitar players who have used your product, or to be significantly less expensive than your competition, or you need innovation. Ross didn't have any of the 3.
And do NOT support these greedy gougers on eBay and Reverb, who snapped up all of Josh's Ross pedals at $79 and are betting on the future "scarcity" to resell them for crazy prices. Screw those guys and DO NOT support them. Just buy Josh's regular pedals if the Ross ones are sold out. Good video guys
@@musicartguy1 check out the listings for Ross pedals on Reverb right now. And as @Guitaural. says, do not support these idiots who just bought them to try and flip them.
The good smart resellers passed on them. Ross wasn’t a must have name. No offense to Ross or JHS or fans of Ross. The numbers speak for themselves. The market dictates the price.
@@musicartguy1 think you maybe be wrong. if you are buying for a 10yr thing probably won't increase in value. you buy for a 25yr thing you may get lucky for all JHS pedals. i know buy like that may not be favorable to most.
The way I see it, when Ross was in the 70's and 80's, there was far less competition. Nowadays, you have a ton of options for pedals, I get the selling point is supposed to be solidly built and historical value, but there's literally options out there that are also solidly built, cheaper, AND with more options. So the historical value is really the only thing going for it... and we have most people going "who's Ross?" lol For Gibson and Fender, as well as other brands that have been around for decades, they have a fanatical following. They didn't disappear for decades like Ross did. We can question their decisions all we want, but you're still going to have the fanatics wanting to buy their stuff.
It seemed like a passion project for Josh. Ross never seemed like a brand that people have been pining for. But it’s business, you take risks and many times things don’t work out. Nothing wrong with giving an idea a try.
I love what you guys are doing! Regarding JHS, I feel that many companies, including them, have become overconfident. In JHS's case, they seemed to think that their success would allow them to launch new and old brands with the same level of sales. Unfortunately, I believe there's an oversaturation in the market. Realistically, how many pedals does a player need? With so many options available, people may be experiencing fatigue and are less inclined to make purchases. As a side note, JHS produced 10,000 pedals, selling half of them at full price initially, and the remainder last week at discounted prices. Overall, I think they did quite well and gained significant marketing exposure from the video where he admitted making a mistake. I'm not surprised by the outcome, and I suspect he knew exactly what he was doing.
My first pedal was a Ross Distortion. Don't know what happened to it, but many years later I bought another online. Mint condition with a box and two Ross stickers and a catalog. It sounds like a tubescreamer, but I didn't know that back in the day. My buddies liked my SRV tone.
I was openly asking for an American made Meteora Bass. But just like the Ross pedals it’s going to be a while their are a couple other guitars I want first… Fender Pro II precision, because I laced my America pro precision with Flatwounds, and that Suona Jazz Bass still holds my attention.
Great vid! The Ross pedals went in about 10 mins except for the more numerous Distortion that lasted about an hour or so. The Fuzz had gone after 3 mins, I tried to get one 4 mins in! Yeah, it has often baffled me why Fender don't make the "standard" US Strat and Tele. Have them US built with a case in all the main colours and choice of rosewood or maple board. End of. Job done. Then use your Elite or Ultra to have the US models with a Humbucker or Floyd or even different pickguard or whatever. The Fender range and speed it "rotates" is just too confusing, and hey I'm a Fender geek too! So NO idea how newbies and casual customers get along. Am sure there is a Marketing Manager tucked away in a boardroom who has the spreadsheets to tell me I'm wrong, and that's fine. But I for one yearn for just to be able to buy again a Standard US Strat and know EXACTLY what I'm buying year in year out.
News flash boys. All those discount Ross pedals sold out in 15 minutes! I wanted to pick up a Ross Fuzz and logged in 1 hour after the sale started and missed the window.
It's rough because often we as consumers don't know that we want something until it's out there (like Castadosa Conchers baritone for example). So I'd hate for companies to take no chances. But in this case, JHS made a swing and a miss. Good on them for listening to the market instead of continuing to throw good money after bad.
Fascinating ruminations from my two favorite ruminators. Companies have a tough time figuring out what segment of the market they want to address. The new players? The Covid bedroom crowds. The giggers? The lifers? If I were to make an uneducated guess, the most money could be generated from new players for their first and second instruments. I only say that because I've heard both the CEOs of Fender and Gibson (well … former CEO) say that. According to them, only one in ten sticks with guitar. So you have ten times more beginners. And many of them will stay around to pick out an slightly upscale guitar before dropping the hobby. Most of us enthusiasts here are in the minority. And yet … the companies want to serve our needs because many of us have open wallets. Love this business.
@@AuntAlnico4 But pedals are (usually) less expensive than guitars, and they take up far less space and as such are far less noticeable to spouses/partners (or other family members) who would prefer you to spend less money on your hobbies.
Not sure I agree... The way I saw it was that all those who wanted a Ross pedal and had the coin got one basically day one. In some ways I think that shows that it was marketed well. Ross pedals have been floating around for decades and JHS erased the scarcity of them. I don't think there was anything that they got wrong apart from the size of the market for the products... Economies of scale and all - but if their production run was capped at a number everyone would have called it a massive success. Perhaps the big companies might know what they're doing?
Our bandwidth isn’t wide enough but our pocketbooks aren’t thick enough either. It feels like by the time I save enough for something, it’s on to the next thing.
I had never before heard of Ross pedals and nothing Josh said about them made me interested in the brand. I was surprised that he'd revived it because I would have thought there wouldn't be strong demand.
I love Fender but some of there stuff has had quality control issues, my hot rod deluxe series is fine for now but it will need maintenance such as having the capacitors replaced to make the amp last long term otherwise they burn up. But a lot of amps can have issues unless you’re paying a lot for a good one. The point is I wish brands like Fender could resolve quality control issues in their products, I guess you get what you pay for but even a new hot rod deluxe is $1000, hopefully this comment is helpful…
I just checked Ross's website and they are sold out of all their $79.00 pedals. Saved me from buying something I really don't need anyway. Time to start saving for a Blues Junior!
Solid vid, thanks for posting! I’ve found I prefer the original Player Series from Fender Vs the Player 2, which are cool, but I find theyre close to Vintera series, which I really like also. Also the Les Paul Traditional from a few years ago was really the “standard” everyone knows Vs what Gibson was offering at the time, which again is confusing for the customer. For me, I really like the JHS 3 series so if I had a choice, I could get more for less money in the JHS 3Series than a Ross pedal.
The music business, like every other business today, is now run by business majors. In the past it was run by music people. The business majors see the next quarterly report. Music people didn’t panic with the natural ebb and flow of instrument changes, styles, etc. The business majors don’t really understand their customers because those customers are secondary to sales, forecasts, etc. it was sure easier when a Strat was a Strat, a Les Paul was a Deluxe, Standard, or Custom and other models were other models that didn’t step on the legacy models. The business majors made a mess of it.
I was vaguely aware of the Ross comp since the 80s, I guess. I like JHS, and the show. But I wasn't really impressed with the rollout, but I figured josh was doing another passion project and didn't pay much attention until Josh made the announcement this past week. I'm not sure how heavily he promoted them, either. But I wasn't surprised when his buyback was explained, Josh seems way above chiseling anybody out of money, especially for short gains. As far as all the new products lately, I remember seeing a big Fender "American Something II" display in a local store, and thinking they had just came out with the first version, they should give people a chance to enjoy them. But GAS gets all of us, I've been on a fuzz fixation the past few months, and I just got two more from companies that didn't even exist five years ago! Beetronics Tuna Fuzz, and Fortin Fuzz))) and I didn't know Josh made a Ross fuzz that sounds like John Fogerty playing through his Kustom amp... I thought Kustoms were cool-looking crap, but I love some CCR. For $70-$80, I gotta try it!
I remember back in the days the pedals on the local shop were Boss, MXR, Ibanez and Ross, maybe it was some other brand but these 4 were the ones you saw in the shop and in magazines , so these were the pedals we used to buy back then . I think JHS lacked a little bit of good marketing, I just knew he brought back Ross like 2 days ago listening the news that he is closing it , jajaja , it's crazy . Probably I will buy one just for nostalgia but I guess it's too late, I live in London and I watch regularly YT channels about gear, it's really crazy that I never heard abou it, something doesn't makes sense .
II asked how much the Ross was and it was 179. Uh😂 I got the Tuna fuzz for 99. I like the Tuna fuzz. I used Ross pedals mainly the distortion in the 80s I got great Metal distortion for that time, that was different than Boss.
This business is based on emotion. The cheapest Amazon guitar today is probably better than most high end guitars of the 70's... yet people still buy "Vintage." I own a Martin HD28. It is a real piece of crap. Damn neck is warped and the luthier said this is common. The neighbor across the street has a Martin and the binding is falling off. Yet everyone speaks of this brand with reverence. Ugh. (Someone said they have a lifetime warranty but we both bought these guitars used so we are screwed.)
Over saturation is a big issue IMO, and no one does it most or worse than the big two Gibson and Fender, who have basically been recycling the same stuff over and over. 'Artist' models, re-issues, custom shop, etc. A lot of the time you didn't get things right the first time, but it's easier to just keep changing the names, colors, or whatever then correcting the issues.
I got a hammertone fuzz pedal over the Trapper fuzz from the line you were talking about and it's been good to me. Not sure about the rest of the line but I like the fuzz. I still got the phaser from that higher end line though and was looking at the tre-verb but thought I didn't really need it. Oh got the bass unit too. Do we really need lights on pots (and they're a bit bulky, not to mention price). But it was a good line overall I think. The Ross sounded good from what I heard. I think they could become a wanted item for connoisseurs in some future. My first (bass) amp was Ross.
The problem is that we have commoditized EVERYTHING. How can you justify paying $200 for a circuit board and metal when you can get identical corcuit board and metal for $40? Now, when you factor in ALL pieces, that $200 very well could be cheaper, but you can't expect the average person to understand the macroeconomics and math involved to see why $200 could be cheaper in the long run But making everything a commodity forces people to basically exclude as many costs as possible, hide or shift them (like moving jobs overseas can 'save' money quickly, but eventually hidden costs in quality, customer loyalty, etc. will have to be factored in, and often didn't save money in total)
Smart comment. For example I love EHX, especially the crazy pedal ideas they come out with like the Superego, and I love how they cheap they are BUT all the slightly more expensive pedals that aren't made in China, assembled in NYC are still working and all the pedals that are on my workbench with broken footswitches are EHX. Yeah the little Big Muff from EHX was $40-50 cheaper but it's broken now and the other pedals are still going. I'll solder in a new footswitch eventually for $3 plus shipping plus my time but in the long run the $180-$200 pedal is actually a better deal.
Fender should expand the awesome Vintage II series into Vintage/modern. Take the strat for instance, larger frets and dump the heel truss rod adjustment. They mucked with the "vintage" 3 way switch and added a dedicated bridge tone knob why not the truss rod and larger frets? The way it stands now, if you want these appointments on a vintage strat you have to buy a custom shop strat or spend 500+ to replace the vintage frets or buy a new neck.
The heel adjust is an important part of the sound of a vintage-style Fender neck. If you want to put a wheel nut on it, great, but the headstock adjust sounds different.
I had a Ross compressor in the late 70s.I was 17/8 and had no idea what it was.I didn’t fuzz or wah so I gave it away like the previous owner did with me.I was considering buying a new one now I know what a compressor does.But too late
I think PRS SE has too many models that are just thin wide necks, now they are all deeply discounted. Very few are wide fat, so many look cool, but the necks are toothpicks. Only a McCarty has the pattern vintage.
The thing to always think about when you're thinking of doing something like Josh did with Ross is this-nobody wanted them before so why would they want them now? Nobody even knew JHS was making Ross pedals.
Why would you resurrect a line that has the same name as the third biggest closeout retailer? It's like naming them TJ Maxx. Don't go making a Marshall's joke, now. Also imagine seeing Ross next to Boss and thinking it's a knockoff.
I have somewhere north of 20-25 pedals some high dollar (more than 500 less than a 1000) including pieces that I've had so long that they are now vintage and collectible. But the fact is that i can only use 5-6 at a time. I know some people use more but most people (i think) only use a tuner, drive, a couple of modulations, delay, compression, and reverb. Maybe a couple of oddballs specific to a given player. I honestly don't understand why there are so many successful pedal companies simply because the market is so small.
At one end of the pedal market you have the known BOSS and Electroharmonix that make masses of pedals, some at very sensible prices. At the other end you have the weird indie brands that make pedals that look like cerise aardvarks with ring modulators combined with a whammy pedal and a smoke detector. They are boutique and priced as such. JHS is now in an odd position of being neither fish nor fowl, sometimes they produce pedals with lots of functions for lots of money like the Colourbox or the Pack Rat, and sometimes they produce cheaper mass produced stuff like the 3 series. ROSS pedals had the worst of both worlds- mass produced and dull looking but more money than the EHX and BOSS style pedals. They were well made, but didn’t really do anything your basic pedals already did.
Its quite simple: most pedal customers are hobbyists that aren't performing. They don't buy performance or tone. They buy specification and magic. Josh did a great marketing job a couple years ago on the Bad Monkey by promoting the magic of it. The Ross pedals were a brand that hobbits didn't know (magic) and it only had 2 knobs (apparent specification). If you can buy a 3 knob Boss for less money, why would you by a Ross?
When JHS introduced the Ross pedal line I assumed from the off that would be a limited run. I had no idea they intended to resurrect the line permanently. I'm old enough to remember the original Ross pedals when they were being made and it seems to me the new ones failed for the same reasons that the original line died off: They're a little too large and a bit boring and clunky looking and just a bit too expensive without being exciting in any way. Cool idea for a limited run, not for an ongoing project.
2:40 gday guys. I’m paused at this timestamp. Is the link to that video in the description? I’m watching via the youtube app on my Apple Tv. Cheers from NZ 😎🎸🤘
No Baxter the "scarcity" of new releases has been found out to be marketing BS. As consumers feeling like I'm paying the iphone release day premium is not attractive in the midst of the largest inflation period in decades.
Based on the emails that I get from Fender there’s nothing special coming from them, another day and an another strat in a slightly different colour. Individually they might be excellent guitars but they’re not exciting. And now they’re starting to offer discounts which is a sure sign the market is slowing down. It’s no longer enough to stretch some strings across a block of wood and put a premium price on it. Shame about the Taylor grand theater guitars… I did buy one, an AD11e-SB, and play it every day, it’s so good. I suppose people say a lot of things, if they just made x then I’ll buy 3, and when they do make x then they find a different reason not to buy
All this stuff is great for folks who buy "used". All these great guitars, amps, and pedals that are slipping through the cracks. Buy 'em up now, or even better, 6 months from now, they'll be worth a lot more when the hipsters realised what they missed out on. People are going to be paying $500+ for those JHS Ross pedals 10 years from now.
I bought a Fender Ultra because i wanted decently playing stable etonated guitar, with that neck . So many fender teles ... guitar shops can carry only so much . too many similar offerings inferior in some areas for no good reasons... Custom shop is great but that should be the standard offering
So many reasons why Ross tanked. Here's one. A lot of us don't have means or interest to buy all of the pedals all of the time. Of the 'million' pedals out there, there are about a dozen I'm keen on at any given time. From brands I like. From brands I want to try. Pedals that plenty have recommended and that my heroes use. Here in Oz, Ross was a $300 proposition, and of the 15 pedals I've bought in the last few years, only one (Boss Angry Driver, so two pedals in one) cost over $300. So any of those I-could-give-crap Ross pedals had to compete with EP Booster, MXR Phase 90, Uni-Vibe, and three or four Keeley, JHS and Wampler pedals on my To Eventually Buy list (when I can justify the splurge, or clear out other pedals I have and still like). Last visit to a shop, I grabbed a Plumes ($160) and Special Cranker ($160) to taste test EQD pedals. Both on my radar for various reasons. Neither of which is part of a current new product avalanche. ...add all the other reasons why Ross tanked and it was going to be a hard pass for me. And I like JHS stuff.
this may sound very superficial but i think the ross pedals look suuuuper lame. and i'm pretty sure my fellow guitar players think the same way. if they are not an amazing deal AND sound great looking like that....well. i honestly think he would've been better off picking the best ones and letting people know he's cloning them and giving each the nice creative JHS branding i also think that fender pedals suffer from the same issue but they have the giant name to help them. so enough people try them and stuff like the pelt fuzz get enough word of mouth to make them kinda work. eventhough i have no idea how well that pedal does sales wise
You're discussing a fundamental flaw in capitalist markets. Fender only makes money for every new guitar they sell. If they don't change what they are making, people will not buy new guitars. Are there new guitarists who will come along and buy things? Absolutely, but not at the rate that new product lines (and branding) do. It's also about covering a range of price points (from the Ultra down through the various Squires). If you want to spend $1000, you can do that- or if you want to spend $2500. They've got to produce things at all those ranges. It's not enough anymore to make a few lines. Josh made the fundamental mistake at this moment in consumer culture: he tried to sell a product he would buy rather than considering what the market wanted. He learned a lot from it and I think, as you two rightly point out, a lot of folks should learn from it.
I want to add re: the point on scarcity: the production is really easy now. Labor is relatively cheap! and materials are relatively cheap and plentiful. Making tons of guitars and pedals isn't an impossible prospect- and they make money on their scale of sales.
Like this discussion as well. I was irritated by the Player II release from Fender. I think it invalidated the Fender Player People, and in a way that entire guitar line. Like suddenly the Fender Player was "yesterday". Hated that. Id rather they just offered the Player II feature in the Player series.. And kept the name "Player Series". That for me would have just made "Player Series" more diverse. They're trying to do this IPhone type model. Wrong marketing I think. This is an industry that covetes guitars from the 1950s and 1960s... Would you want a 1967 phone? Love fender. Thanks for talking about the topic.
If they want the IPhone model.. And who blames them? I think they should keep the guitars as it is.. With a better web presence. And venture out into modelers. (Love they did the Tone Master). Line6 Helix type business model in conjunction with guitars. Hey if it keeps the business alive... Maybe we pay for software upgrades (the major ones, bug fixes remaining free).
The response to John Cordy video had some good info! Josh seemed hurt that John thinks the pedals are overpriced, and also that John broke a pedal trying to make a point. John seemed to expect the pedal to either be free or gold plated for the price; I appreciate John’s opinions but that one video was a little short sighted. If Josh isn’t genuine in his desire to run an ethical business that appreciates his customers then maybe he could make a fortune acting in movies
The response to John Cordy video had some good info! Josh seemed hurt that John thinks the pedals are overpriced, and also that John broke a pedal trying to make a point. John seemed to expect the pedal to either be free or gold plated for the price; I appreciate John’s opinions but that one video was a little short sighted. If Josh isn’t genuine in his desire to run an ethical business that appreciates his customers then maybe he could make a fortune acting in movies
This is all unsustainable corporate greed... year over year, double digit growth is NOT a sane business plan. People only have so much money(less and less every year), and once they buy a guitar, maybe two, most people are done. Its not like an iPhone where tech was changing so rapidly that you would buy a new phone every two years... that was easy when they cost $200.... but now they are over $1,500 for almost meaningless updates, and so now most people dont upgrade until their phone dies, between 5-7 years. Whatever Fender and Gibson want to call their product lines they are still making the same guitars that they have for the last 60 years. Once you have one, there is no point in upgrading because they changed the names or finishes.
I rarely find a pedal that I’m excited about…it seems few brands are successful in distinguish themselves from others.. Look at the distortion segment..half a dozen great pedals out of a thousand offerings.
What's funny is I didn't know they were back at all... had no idea JHS had brought back the brand. That's wild too because I watch a lot of his videos, and had no clue. Did they market these things at all, or did I just not get the memo somehow? I mean, I'm a guy that subscribes to pedal review channels, shoot I watched about 3 hours of just pedal demos last night alone before bed while playing some guitar. I missed the blowout sale also, was going to buy several at that price point once I found out about them, so that sucked... I just don't think this was handled very well, seems very haphazard on the marketing and close down was very abrupt it seems as well. It is his business, I TOTALLY get the financials not working as a small business owner myself, and those sales this year were indeed brutal, but I feel like someone who buys as much gear as I do, should have known these were on the market prior to the day before the blowout sale, lol. I buy a bunch of EQD pedals, have a custom NoisekickFX pedal, I collect vintage Ibanez pedals, I mean, I buy stuff in that price range and above too, so I don't think the price point was the killer here, I just didn't know the brand was back, and JHS production would have made me confident in the quality buying them, so this whole thing is just a bummer to me that it didn't work out for JHS in this case, and that's he's now decided all dead brands aren't worth bringing back. Seriously, was there any marketing on these? Honest and genuine question.
I love JHS pedals, or at least I love the guys and the channel! I've never tried a JHS pedal because it costs 200 dollars for a weeks groceries for 3 people. It just cost me 1600 dollars to have the breakes replaced on a car that sat for a year and a half while I was in the hospital. I KNOW THE ECONOMY IS AMAZING RIGHT NOW, DON'T COME ARREST ME FBI, but I just can't afford to buy ANY of the things I would love to try!
I never heard of Ross before the JhS show talked about it. Didn’t have any connection with the brand like Josh did. Didn’t care for the retro vibe and limited features. I think the Ross line might have done better if it had some of the innovative features added to it like JHS usually does.
I wanted one because my name is Ross but I don't have much of a real use for any of them so I never got one. Now that they're not so expensive maybe I'll get one just because.
Looks like the problem with ross was the only pedal that really mattered was the compressor. You can find vintage ross pedals for less than the new ones cost. If JHS had just done a limited run of the whole line and just kept the compressors going they could probably have kept the brand alive for a few years
The lessons I learned from the reaction on the internet was that everyone thinks they’re an expert while they don’t know $h t. (Not referring to you guys).
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This was a great discussion! This is why it’s great to have dealers around bc they offer unique insights that’s the manufacturers and consumers simply don’t have the perspective to know. Product release fatigue is real. Everyone is exhausted.
@@tonecast1 I’m 59 and have been playing since I was 15 and there’s just too much gear out there and there’s always someone on TH-cam hawking this stuff besides the fact that these Chinese manufacturers are marketing some pretty good stuff at a good price and because they’re either marketing through Amazon or direct it makes their products very affordable. My Alex Lifeson / Rush days are over so I just use a few pedals to get my tone so I can play the blues. I still play some old tunes though. I even bought a guitar tuner pedal.😂🙄
20 minutes well worth my time!!! I do think guitar players (myself included) chasing gear they couldn't afford when they were younger on Reverb makes it tough to reintroduce lines and launch new ones.
I still have my Poss distortion that I bought with my 1st electric back in the late 80's. It's a great pedal! 2 knobs, set it & forget it. I haven't found anything else yet that makes me want to use it over the Ross.
Check out Josh's reaction video to John Nathan Cordy's well-meaning but misinformed video on how pedal makers are making a killing. After watching, while I already had great esteem for Josh as a builder and content maker, he's cemented into my pantheon of humble, honest, kind people in the guitar and TH-cam world.
My impression is that Josh's pedal company is so successful, because he is an incredibly bright and insightful person who found his calling. He was much kinder in his review of John Nathan Cordy's video than he had to be. Josh is one of the smart ones, but even genius business people make the wrong call on products sometimes. That's how they learn and get smarter.
Cordy's video was not well meaning in any way. It was pure dunning-kruger. They guy should just stick to playing guitar, because he doesnt know a thing about how businesses work.
@@weschilton But maybe he does know something about making money. He somehow knew that the video would get a lot of clicks, so far 24k. And now he posted another related one, all for more clicks I'd imagine. As for well meaning or not, that is subjective. But he is making money off our views of his content.
One more caveat from 45 years in the wholesale shoe biz;
Adage 1: Your earliest markdowns are your cheapest markdowns.
Why? Because of aging inventory. The minute an item hits your floor, a clock starts ticking. Unless it' a core re order item (strings, for example), it's worth less each day it sits on your floor. It's imperative to watch the "turn" rate and judge the item without emotion. If it isn't turning as soon as it hits, it's not likely to start turning any faster as it ages. "if it ain't sellin, it ain't likely start anytime soon". So, as a retailer, it's vital to recognize your worst items immediately, mark them down to the price that will sell them out, and reinvest that money into better items ASAP. Realistic judgment on Inventory turn forces you to get out the bad items quickly and buy more good ones. Retail 101.
I did 4 years in high end retail advertising and I couldn't agree more!! We were finishing the newspaper Christmas inserts in July-August.
💯 on that one.
I hope all these guitar companies watch your guy's show, there's a lot they could learn in my opinion!
Guys, let’s be honest here, I’m 60 years old just as a reference and grew up in the era of these pedals and nobody cared about Ross pedals then. I never saw one of these pedals on anybody’s board growing up and playing around here in Cleveland. I never heard of pros using them, and if they did, nobody was talking about it. What a terrible decision to try to bring back a brand nobody cared about in the first place.
Agree. Same age here. Never even looked at the brand. For me it was Boss, MXR, and EHX during the 80s.
Same!
I’m 59 and you’re spot on. I bought DOD pedals because they were a good budget pedal that was sold at the music store I took lessons at. Boss and MXR were out of reach for. I hardly remember Ross.
I had some MXR, EH, Boss and Maestro stuff with a cry baby. I saw ROSS ads in GP magazine but never saw them in stores in my area. We had some good shops around here too in the Cleveland area.
Yes. I remember the Ross name from that time but there was never the same buzz about them as there was for MXR etc. I didn't see them as A list pedals.
I love what Josh does at JHS though and admire him for realizing his ambition to recreate Ross.
When I was growing up I never met anyone that gassed on ROSS pedals.. Ibanez, BOSS, MXR, and some others yes but ROSS was rarely seen. I'm not shocked the remakes didn't take off.
100%. They were budget pedals that you bought because you couldn't afford the others.
Never heard of Ross pedals, its really awesome how something can be so under the radar, but still so important to specific people. I'm nutty like this about some pretty esoteric things myself
I know it’s only a problem when the market conditions are on the side of the consumer, but there’s a lot of stuff on the guitar market that is high quality, well made, and is roughly the same as 50 other things next to it on the shelves.
I just figured the JHS Ross stuff wasn’t for me but everybody else would dig it. My dad said “You’re uncle Burt used to sell those in his shop in Tallahassee.” That was 1978.
I guess it just wasn’t the right time. I love JHS and it’s a bummer the line didn’t make it because Josh was paying royalties to the Ross family and I’m sure they could have benefited from a little extra dough like the rest of us. Josh wasn’t making 💩 from that line. And he knew he never would.
And I think that's part of the problem. Josh did this line for the history and the people behind Ross. But it just wasn't a brand that the public was excited about. Most people had little experience with the originals, there weren't a ton of famous players that were playing the originals prominently, and the designs just were pretty plain, there just wasn't a lot for people to get excited about. If it wasn't for the JHS connection I don't think they would have sold even a third of what they did.
Thanks gentelmen for sharing your thoughts and insights on this topic, I'm 67 years old now and remember buying my first distortion pedal which was a Ross kinda of a brown colored stomp box when I was 17 which sounded great! I also had a Plush tube combo Amp. that I put together from a store called Orvac Electronics I also had a pasley American made Tele. with a P90 stuck in the middle and wow! what a sound! The only company that survived because of all the competition today is Fender! Long live Fender prouducts they did it right from the very beginning.
They launched the Ross pedals during an economy that people felt they could spend. I don’t know anyone now with extra money to buy pedals outside of their niche or at all for that matter.
I think you're 100% correct on this... I'm curious how JHS lines are looking over this same time he discussed (this year's sales).
Bidenomics - Obamalanomics destroyed the U.S. economy! Fact. I have two Boss Katana ARTIST combo amps listed locally for $300 each, and nobody has a dime to scrape together to buy one.
TRUMP is coming soon and will MAGA!
I think Jonathan is right about one of the reasons the Ross didn’t sell well. There are soooo many new petals to choose from.
Yep, the market is saturated and people are burnt out. Also, a pedal will never make you a better player. I think people are finally realizing this. If you are a great player you don't need anything more than 2 or 3 of the classic pedals that have been around forever and are on all the records you love and "have the sound" you want. haha
I'm actually shocked there's as many producers and companies as there is. It's almost like people just horde pedals now, like they're a collectable item. That mentality started happening when people start making them like a little piece of art.
@@xray606
It’s not “almost like people just horde pedals now” that is exactly what’s happening with a lot of pedals.
I respect his opinion, but I don't think that's the reason. I think it's because there was really nothing to get excited about, they didn't look exciting, they didn't offer anything new or interesting, and not a lot of people were very familiar with the originals. I think they seemed outdated to a lot of people. You either need a strong tradition of successful guitar players who have used your product, or to be significantly less expensive than your competition, or you need innovation. Ross didn't have any of the 3.
And do NOT support these greedy gougers on eBay and Reverb, who snapped up all of Josh's Ross pedals at $79 and are betting on the future "scarcity" to resell them for crazy prices. Screw those guys and DO NOT support them. Just buy Josh's regular pedals if the Ross ones are sold out. Good video guys
Ross pedals are not going to go up in value. They weren't wanted, and that won't change.
@@musicartguy1 check out the listings for Ross pedals on Reverb right now. And as @Guitaural. says, do not support these idiots who just bought them to try and flip them.
The good smart resellers passed on them. Ross wasn’t a must have name. No offense to Ross or JHS or fans of Ross. The numbers speak for themselves. The market dictates the price.
@@musicartguy1 think you maybe be wrong. if you are buying for a 10yr thing probably won't increase in value. you buy for a 25yr thing you may get lucky for all JHS pedals. i know buy like that may not be favorable to most.
Jhs’s 3Series pedals are excellent and only $99.
The way I see it, when Ross was in the 70's and 80's, there was far less competition. Nowadays, you have a ton of options for pedals, I get the selling point is supposed to be solidly built and historical value, but there's literally options out there that are also solidly built, cheaper, AND with more options. So the historical value is really the only thing going for it... and we have most people going "who's Ross?" lol
For Gibson and Fender, as well as other brands that have been around for decades, they have a fanatical following. They didn't disappear for decades like Ross did. We can question their decisions all we want, but you're still going to have the fanatics wanting to buy their stuff.
It seemed like a passion project for Josh. Ross never seemed like a brand that people have been pining for. But it’s business, you take risks and many times things don’t work out. Nothing wrong with giving an idea a try.
They were actually expensive and desirable in the 80’s
Good topic, thank you guys
Would be much better if guitarists actually looked for pedals that suit their needs, rather than following hype and brand names... but that's business
Relaunch the sonix & all the failures from norlin's last gasp !!!!
I have an 80's Ross compressor. Great unit in its time, but I use Wampler's Ego because it is more flexible and useful.
I love what you guys are doing!
Regarding JHS, I feel that many companies, including them, have become overconfident. In JHS's case, they seemed to think that their success would allow them to launch new and old brands with the same level of sales. Unfortunately, I believe there's an oversaturation in the market. Realistically, how many pedals does a player need? With so many options available, people may be experiencing fatigue and are less inclined to make purchases.
As a side note, JHS produced 10,000 pedals, selling half of them at full price initially, and the remainder last week at discounted prices. Overall, I think they did quite well and gained significant marketing exposure from the video where he admitted making a mistake. I'm not surprised by the outcome, and I suspect he knew exactly what he was doing.
My first pedal was a Ross Distortion. Don't know what happened to it, but many years later I bought another online. Mint condition with a box and two Ross stickers and a catalog. It sounds like a tubescreamer, but I didn't know that back in the day. My buddies liked my SRV tone.
I was openly asking for an American made Meteora Bass. But just like the Ross pedals it’s going to be a while their are a couple other guitars I want first… Fender Pro II precision, because I laced my America pro precision with Flatwounds, and that Suona Jazz Bass still holds my attention.
Great vid! The Ross pedals went in about 10 mins except for the more numerous Distortion that lasted about an hour or so. The Fuzz had gone after 3 mins, I tried to get one 4 mins in!
Yeah, it has often baffled me why Fender don't make the "standard" US Strat and Tele. Have them US built with a case in all the main colours and choice of rosewood or maple board. End of. Job done. Then use your Elite or Ultra to have the US models with a Humbucker or Floyd or even different pickguard or whatever. The Fender range and speed it "rotates" is just too confusing, and hey I'm a Fender geek too! So NO idea how newbies and casual customers get along. Am sure there is a Marketing Manager tucked away in a boardroom who has the spreadsheets to tell me I'm wrong, and that's fine. But I for one yearn for just to be able to buy again a Standard US Strat and know EXACTLY what I'm buying year in year out.
News flash boys. All those discount Ross pedals sold out in 15 minutes! I wanted to pick up a Ross Fuzz and logged in 1 hour after the sale started and missed the window.
The fuzz had all gone after 3 mins!
I never heard of the Ross pedals until yesterday.
To clarify, we never sold at $99
I covered that in the video. ❤
It's rough because often we as consumers don't know that we want something until it's out there (like Castadosa Conchers baritone for example). So I'd hate for companies to take no chances. But in this case, JHS made a swing and a miss. Good on them for listening to the market instead of continuing to throw good money after bad.
Fascinating ruminations from my two favorite ruminators. Companies have a tough time figuring out what segment of the market they want to address. The new players? The Covid bedroom crowds. The giggers? The lifers? If I were to make an uneducated guess, the most money could be generated from new players for their first and second instruments. I only say that because I've heard both the CEOs of Fender and Gibson (well … former CEO) say that. According to them, only one in ten sticks with guitar. So you have ten times more beginners. And many of them will stay around to pick out an slightly upscale guitar before dropping the hobby. Most of us enthusiasts here are in the minority. And yet … the companies want to serve our needs because many of us have open wallets. Love this business.
Well, I’m going to JHS’s website and buying something. Cool video
🤮
😂 if you are just buying stuff because they owners are cool go buy a new Dean guitar, they are way cooler than Gibson guitars at least !
@@AuntAlnico4
But pedals are (usually) less expensive than guitars, and they take up far less space and as such are far less noticeable to spouses/partners (or other family members) who would prefer you to spend less money on your hobbies.
Diggin the gopnik look, Baxter
Slingin' like a Slav
Nothin says class like a track suit, kinda of a Russian tux
Run DMC
Not sure I agree... The way I saw it was that all those who wanted a Ross pedal and had the coin got one basically day one. In some ways I think that shows that it was marketed well. Ross pedals have been floating around for decades and JHS erased the scarcity of them. I don't think there was anything that they got wrong apart from the size of the market for the products... Economies of scale and all - but if their production run was capped at a number everyone would have called it a massive success. Perhaps the big companies might know what they're doing?
Our bandwidth isn’t wide enough but our pocketbooks aren’t thick enough either. It feels like by the time I save enough for something, it’s on to the next thing.
Really informative. I always enjoy your takes on the inner workings of the industry. 👍
I had never before heard of Ross pedals and nothing Josh said about them made me interested in the brand. I was surprised that he'd revived it because I would have thought there wouldn't be strong demand.
many products out there, some with raving reviews, are just blah.
some people, even here, still use their Ross gear because it does the job
I love Fender but some of there stuff has had quality control issues, my hot rod deluxe series is fine for now but it will need maintenance such as having the capacitors replaced to make the amp last long term otherwise they burn up. But a lot of amps can have issues unless you’re paying a lot for a good one. The point is I wish brands like Fender could resolve quality control issues in their products, I guess you get what you pay for but even a new hot rod deluxe is $1000, hopefully this comment is helpful…
I just checked Ross's website and they are sold out of all their $79.00 pedals. Saved me from buying something I really don't need anyway. Time to start saving for a Blues Junior!
That blue PRS over your right shoulder is beautiful.
Solid vid, thanks for posting! I’ve found I prefer the original Player Series from Fender Vs the Player 2, which are cool, but I find theyre close to Vintera series, which I really like also. Also the Les Paul Traditional from a few years ago was really the “standard” everyone knows Vs what Gibson was offering at the time, which again is confusing for the customer. For me, I really like the JHS 3 series so if I had a choice, I could get more for less money in the JHS 3Series than a Ross pedal.
The music business, like every other business today, is now run by business majors. In the past it was run by music people. The business majors see the next quarterly report. Music people didn’t panic with the natural ebb and flow of instrument changes, styles, etc. The business majors don’t really understand their customers because those customers are secondary to sales, forecasts, etc. it was sure easier when a Strat was a Strat, a Les Paul was a Deluxe, Standard, or Custom and other models were other models that didn’t step on the legacy models. The business majors made a mess of it.
I was vaguely aware of the Ross comp since the 80s, I guess. I like JHS, and the show. But I wasn't really impressed with the rollout, but I figured josh was doing another passion project and didn't pay much attention until Josh made the announcement this past week. I'm not sure how heavily he promoted them, either. But I wasn't surprised when his buyback was explained, Josh seems way above chiseling anybody out of money, especially for short gains.
As far as all the new products lately, I remember seeing a big Fender "American Something II" display in a local store, and thinking they had just came out with the first version, they should give people a chance to enjoy them. But GAS gets all of us, I've been on a fuzz fixation the past few months, and I just got two more from companies that didn't even exist five years ago! Beetronics Tuna Fuzz, and Fortin Fuzz))) and I didn't know Josh made a Ross fuzz that sounds like John Fogerty playing through his Kustom amp... I thought Kustoms were cool-looking crap, but I love some CCR. For $70-$80, I gotta try it!
I remember back in the days the pedals on the local shop were Boss, MXR, Ibanez and Ross, maybe it was some other brand but these 4 were the ones you saw in the shop and in magazines , so these were the pedals we used to buy back then .
I think JHS lacked a little bit of good marketing, I just knew he brought back Ross like 2 days ago listening the news that he is closing it , jajaja , it's crazy .
Probably I will buy one just for nostalgia but I guess it's too late, I live in London and I watch regularly YT channels about gear, it's really crazy that I never heard abou it, something doesn't makes sense .
II asked how much the Ross was and it was 179. Uh😂 I got the Tuna fuzz for 99. I like the Tuna fuzz. I used Ross pedals mainly the distortion in the 80s I got great Metal distortion for that time, that was different than Boss.
This business is based on emotion. The cheapest Amazon guitar today is probably better than most high end guitars of the 70's... yet people still buy "Vintage." I own a Martin HD28. It is a real piece of crap. Damn neck is warped and the luthier said this is common. The neighbor across the street has a Martin and the binding is falling off. Yet everyone speaks of this brand with reverence. Ugh. (Someone said they have a lifetime warranty but we both bought these guitars used so we are screwed.)
Over saturation is a big issue IMO, and no one does it most or worse than the big two Gibson and Fender, who have basically been recycling the same stuff over and over. 'Artist' models, re-issues, custom shop, etc.
A lot of the time you didn't get things right the first time, but it's easier to just keep changing the names, colors, or whatever then correcting the issues.
I got a hammertone fuzz pedal over the Trapper fuzz from the line you were talking about and it's been good to me. Not sure about the rest of the line but I like the fuzz.
I still got the phaser from that higher end line though and was looking at the tre-verb but thought I didn't really need it.
Oh got the bass unit too. Do we really need lights on pots (and they're a bit bulky, not to mention price). But it was a good line overall I think.
The Ross sounded good from what I heard. I think they could become a wanted item for connoisseurs in some future.
My first (bass) amp was Ross.
Did you guys watch his video! They never sold for 99 dollars and he explained why! Watch the video!
The problem is that we have commoditized EVERYTHING.
How can you justify paying $200 for a circuit board and metal when you can get identical corcuit board and metal for $40? Now, when you factor in ALL pieces, that $200 very well could be cheaper, but you can't expect the average person to understand the macroeconomics and math involved to see why $200 could be cheaper in the long run
But making everything a commodity forces people to basically exclude as many costs as possible, hide or shift them (like moving jobs overseas can 'save' money quickly, but eventually hidden costs in quality, customer loyalty, etc. will have to be factored in, and often didn't save money in total)
Nah. Boutique, small batch pedal makers will put better quality components indie their pedals for the same price point.
Smart comment. For example I love EHX, especially the crazy pedal ideas they come out with like the Superego, and I love how they cheap they are BUT all the slightly more expensive pedals that aren't made in China, assembled in NYC are still working and all the pedals that are on my workbench with broken footswitches are EHX. Yeah the little Big Muff from EHX was $40-50 cheaper but it's broken now and the other pedals are still going. I'll solder in a new footswitch eventually for $3 plus shipping plus my time but in the long run the $180-$200 pedal is actually a better deal.
My first pedal was a Ross distortion. Around 1980 ish.
Fender should expand the awesome Vintage II series into Vintage/modern. Take the strat for instance, larger frets and dump the heel truss rod adjustment. They mucked with the "vintage" 3 way switch and added a dedicated bridge tone knob why not the truss rod and larger frets? The way it stands now, if you want these appointments on a vintage strat you have to buy a custom shop strat or spend 500+ to replace the vintage frets or buy a new neck.
The heel adjust is an important part of the sound of a vintage-style Fender neck. If you want to put a wheel nut on it, great, but the headstock adjust sounds different.
@@trev3971 I had a feeling it might. I will have to check out YT and see if anybody did a sound comparison.
I had a Ross compressor in the late 70s.I was 17/8 and had no idea what it was.I didn’t fuzz or wah so I gave it away like the previous owner did with me.I was considering buying a new one now I know what a compressor does.But too late
I think PRS SE has too many models that are just thin wide necks, now they are all deeply discounted. Very few are wide fat, so many look cool, but the necks are toothpicks. Only a McCarty has the pattern vintage.
Love the wide fat neck on my Paul’s SE.
The thing to always think about when you're thinking of doing something like Josh did with Ross is this-nobody wanted them before so why would they want them now? Nobody even knew JHS was making Ross pedals.
Auto manufacturer can learn from the learn too. If it ain't selling stop pushing it
Why would you resurrect a line that has the same name as the third biggest closeout retailer? It's like naming them TJ Maxx. Don't go making a Marshall's joke, now.
Also imagine seeing Ross next to Boss and thinking it's a knockoff.
I have somewhere north of 20-25 pedals some high dollar (more than 500 less than a 1000) including pieces that I've had so long that they are now vintage and collectible. But the fact is that i can only use 5-6 at a time. I know some people use more but most people (i think) only use a tuner, drive, a couple of modulations, delay, compression, and reverb. Maybe a couple of oddballs specific to a given player. I honestly don't understand why there are so many successful pedal companies simply because the market is so small.
sometimes you switch according to song/mood
Cool to hear you talking about thia topic.
but the real question is- does the market want the trump guitar
At one end of the pedal market you have the known BOSS and Electroharmonix that make masses of pedals, some at very sensible prices.
At the other end you have the weird indie brands that make pedals that look like cerise aardvarks with ring modulators combined with a whammy pedal and a smoke detector. They are boutique and priced as such.
JHS is now in an odd position of being neither fish nor fowl, sometimes they produce pedals with lots of functions for lots of money like the Colourbox or the Pack Rat, and sometimes they produce cheaper mass produced stuff like the 3 series.
ROSS pedals had the worst of both worlds- mass produced and dull looking but more money than the EHX and BOSS style pedals. They were well made, but didn’t really do anything your basic pedals already did.
How far are you guys from Raliegh? I'm movinging to there in about a month and a half from Orange County, California.
Its quite simple: most pedal customers are hobbyists that aren't performing. They don't buy performance or tone. They buy specification and magic. Josh did a great marketing job a couple years ago on the Bad Monkey by promoting the magic of it. The Ross pedals were a brand that hobbits didn't know (magic) and it only had 2 knobs (apparent specification). If you can buy a 3 knob Boss for less money, why would you by a Ross?
When JHS introduced the Ross pedal line I assumed from the off that would be a limited run. I had no idea they intended to resurrect the line permanently. I'm old enough to remember the original Ross pedals when they were being made and it seems to me the new ones failed for the same reasons that the original line died off: They're a little too large and a bit boring and clunky looking and just a bit too expensive without being exciting in any way. Cool idea for a limited run, not for an ongoing project.
J Rob dressed like he’s Security detail for the casino boss on the rez
"We mark it up ... $20" - LOL, that's some serious backpedaling on trying not to say the markup was closer to 80%
2:40 gday guys. I’m paused at this timestamp. Is the link to that video in the description? I’m watching via the youtube app on my Apple Tv.
Cheers from NZ 😎🎸🤘
No Baxter the "scarcity" of new releases has been found out to be marketing BS. As consumers feeling like I'm paying the iphone release day premium is not attractive in the midst of the largest inflation period in decades.
Too much “corporate think” will ruin any good thing.
Based on the emails that I get from Fender there’s nothing special coming from them, another day and an another strat in a slightly different colour. Individually they might be excellent guitars but they’re not exciting. And now they’re starting to offer discounts which is a sure sign the market is slowing down. It’s no longer enough to stretch some strings across a block of wood and put a premium price on it.
Shame about the Taylor grand theater guitars… I did buy one, an AD11e-SB, and play it every day, it’s so good. I suppose people say a lot of things, if they just made x then I’ll buy 3, and when they do make x then they find a different reason not to buy
I own vintage Ross Phaser and Distortion pedals...good pedals 👍
All this stuff is great for folks who buy "used". All these great guitars, amps, and pedals that are slipping through the cracks. Buy 'em up now, or even better, 6 months from now, they'll be worth a lot more when the hipsters realised what they missed out on. People are going to be paying $500+ for those JHS Ross pedals 10 years from now.
I bought a Fender Ultra because i wanted decently playing stable etonated guitar, with that neck . So many fender teles ... guitar shops can carry only so much . too many similar offerings inferior in some areas for no good reasons... Custom shop is great but that should be the standard offering
So many reasons why Ross tanked. Here's one. A lot of us don't have means or interest to buy all of the pedals all of the time. Of the 'million' pedals out there, there are about a dozen I'm keen on at any given time. From brands I like. From brands I want to try. Pedals that plenty have recommended and that my heroes use. Here in Oz, Ross was a $300 proposition, and of the 15 pedals I've bought in the last few years, only one (Boss Angry Driver, so two pedals in one) cost over $300. So any of those I-could-give-crap Ross pedals had to compete with EP Booster, MXR Phase 90, Uni-Vibe, and three or four Keeley, JHS and Wampler pedals on my To Eventually Buy list (when I can justify the splurge, or clear out other pedals I have and still like). Last visit to a shop, I grabbed a Plumes ($160) and Special Cranker ($160) to taste test EQD pedals. Both on my radar for various reasons. Neither of which is part of a current new product avalanche. ...add all the other reasons why Ross tanked and it was going to be a hard pass for me. And I like JHS stuff.
this may sound very superficial but i think the ross pedals look suuuuper lame. and i'm pretty sure my fellow guitar players think the same way. if they are not an amazing deal AND sound great looking like that....well.
i honestly think he would've been better off picking the best ones and letting people know he's cloning them and giving each the nice creative JHS branding
i also think that fender pedals suffer from the same issue but they have the giant name to help them. so enough people try them and stuff like the pelt fuzz get enough word of mouth to make them kinda work. eventhough i have no idea how well that pedal does sales wise
You're discussing a fundamental flaw in capitalist markets. Fender only makes money for every new guitar they sell. If they don't change what they are making, people will not buy new guitars. Are there new guitarists who will come along and buy things? Absolutely, but not at the rate that new product lines (and branding) do. It's also about covering a range of price points (from the Ultra down through the various Squires). If you want to spend $1000, you can do that- or if you want to spend $2500. They've got to produce things at all those ranges. It's not enough anymore to make a few lines. Josh made the fundamental mistake at this moment in consumer culture: he tried to sell a product he would buy rather than considering what the market wanted. He learned a lot from it and I think, as you two rightly point out, a lot of folks should learn from it.
I want to add re: the point on scarcity: the production is really easy now. Labor is relatively cheap! and materials are relatively cheap and plentiful. Making tons of guitars and pedals isn't an impossible prospect- and they make money on their scale of sales.
The very best electric gtr I've owned was an '84 American Standard Stratocaster.
Like this discussion as well.
I was irritated by the Player II release from Fender. I think it invalidated the Fender Player People, and in a way that entire guitar line. Like suddenly the Fender Player was "yesterday". Hated that. Id rather they just offered the Player II feature in the Player series.. And kept the name "Player Series". That for me would have just made "Player Series" more diverse.
They're trying to do this IPhone type model. Wrong marketing I think. This is an industry that covetes guitars from the 1950s and 1960s... Would you want a 1967 phone? Love fender. Thanks for talking about the topic.
If they want the IPhone model.. And who blames them?
I think they should keep the guitars as it is.. With a better web presence. And venture out into modelers. (Love they did the Tone Master). Line6 Helix type business model in conjunction with guitars. Hey if it keeps the business alive... Maybe we pay for software upgrades (the major ones, bug fixes remaining free).
9:10 If having too much choice is a burden, learn to play lefty
We get nothing FR
The GS Mini is $600, and would have been supported having a 1 3/4” nut. What wasn’t supported was a $1000 - $3000 premium for the GT. 🍎 & 🍊
I still have my Ross double pedal where it's a distortion and phaser together. The bass player from Marilyn Manson almost bought it. True story.
Ross was always my least favorite Friends character, so failure was expected.
The first pedal I ever played through was a Ross Compressor in 1982 when I was 16. I wanted one - but I wasn't paying $250 for a new one, you know?
My 1st amp Ross. I hated it as most kids would, because it did not make any "familiar" sounds. In 80 years the $79 pedals will be collectable.
Can someone tell me why these pedals sold well at first and then fell off a cliff?? What went wrong that caused the pedals to lose popularity?
I’m a guitar gear nut. Or I thought I was because…. I had never heard of Ross Pedals until this has happened to JHS.
Manufacturers need to do limited time only runs, make their money and close it down.
Agree with You, go see Josh's video after this one and share some of Casino's Holiday Specials and Special New Guitars for Sale
The response to John Cordy video had some good info! Josh seemed hurt that John thinks the pedals are overpriced, and also that John broke a pedal trying to make a point. John seemed to expect the pedal to either be free or gold plated for the price; I appreciate John’s opinions but that one video was a little short sighted.
If Josh isn’t genuine in his desire to run an ethical business that appreciates his customers then maybe he could make a fortune acting in movies
The response to John Cordy video had some good info! Josh seemed hurt that John thinks the pedals are overpriced, and also that John broke a pedal trying to make a point. John seemed to expect the pedal to either be free or gold plated for the price; I appreciate John’s opinions but that one video was a little short sighted.
If Josh isn’t genuine in his desire to run an ethical business that appreciates his customers then maybe he could make a fortune acting in movies
Good job team
This is all unsustainable corporate greed... year over year, double digit growth is NOT a sane business plan. People only have so much money(less and less every year), and once they buy a guitar, maybe two, most people are done. Its not like an iPhone where tech was changing so rapidly that you would buy a new phone every two years... that was easy when they cost $200.... but now they are over $1,500 for almost meaningless updates, and so now most people dont upgrade until their phone dies, between 5-7 years.
Whatever Fender and Gibson want to call their product lines they are still making the same guitars that they have for the last 60 years. Once you have one, there is no point in upgrading because they changed the names or finishes.
I rarely find a pedal that I’m excited about…it seems few brands are successful in distinguish themselves from others..
Look at the distortion segment..half a dozen great pedals out of a thousand offerings.
to be honest, had no clue Ross was considered a higher end brand... thought it was some sort of knock off of "B"oss pedals...
What's funny is I didn't know they were back at all... had no idea JHS had brought back the brand. That's wild too because I watch a lot of his videos, and had no clue. Did they market these things at all, or did I just not get the memo somehow? I mean, I'm a guy that subscribes to pedal review channels, shoot I watched about 3 hours of just pedal demos last night alone before bed while playing some guitar. I missed the blowout sale also, was going to buy several at that price point once I found out about them, so that sucked... I just don't think this was handled very well, seems very haphazard on the marketing and close down was very abrupt it seems as well. It is his business, I TOTALLY get the financials not working as a small business owner myself, and those sales this year were indeed brutal, but I feel like someone who buys as much gear as I do, should have known these were on the market prior to the day before the blowout sale, lol. I buy a bunch of EQD pedals, have a custom NoisekickFX pedal, I collect vintage Ibanez pedals, I mean, I buy stuff in that price range and above too, so I don't think the price point was the killer here, I just didn't know the brand was back, and JHS production would have made me confident in the quality buying them, so this whole thing is just a bummer to me that it didn't work out for JHS in this case, and that's he's now decided all dead brands aren't worth bringing back.
Seriously, was there any marketing on these? Honest and genuine question.
I love JHS pedals, or at least I love the guys and the channel! I've never tried a JHS pedal because it costs 200 dollars for a weeks groceries for 3 people. It just cost me 1600 dollars to have the breakes replaced on a car that sat for a year and a half while I was in the hospital. I KNOW THE ECONOMY IS AMAZING RIGHT NOW, DON'T COME ARREST ME FBI, but I just can't afford to buy ANY of the things I would love to try!
I never heard of Ross before the JhS show talked about it. Didn’t have any connection with the brand like Josh did. Didn’t care for the retro vibe and limited features. I think the Ross line might have done better if it had some of the innovative features added to it like JHS usually does.
I wanted one because my name is Ross but I don't have much of a real use for any of them so I never got one. Now that they're not so expensive maybe I'll get one just because.
Until this video, I didn’t even know what a Ross brand pedal was. And I comb thru pedals online daily lol. So maybe it was poor marketing?? 🤷🏻♂️😅
Baxter looks like he should be leading a local jazzercise club
I thought Ross was bad sounding gear in the 1980s. Why would I be nostalgic for it now?
Are you guys saying no one likes the Fender acoustasonic line?
Only pedal in the line worth getting in the first place ended up being twice as much as a superior Dyna Comp. Smooooth.
Looks like the problem with ross was the only pedal that really mattered was the compressor. You can find vintage ross pedals for less than the new ones cost. If JHS had just done a limited run of the whole line and just kept the compressors going they could probably have kept the brand alive for a few years
The lessons I learned from the reaction on the internet was that everyone thinks they’re an expert while they don’t know $h t.
(Not referring to you guys).
I have come to a point that I own everything that I have ever wanted, even way more than what I will ever need. So no buying new stuff.
I've never known why people need or want any compressor pedal. I don't recognize enough difference with it on, & don't think I need it.