Sorry, to keep going on folks, but this is a very important issue to me and my husband. We were not able to conceive but had the finances to pursue any option available to a Western couple. We chose not to pursue any of those options because we deemed every single one of them unethical. It is NOT a human right to have children!
I still cant understand how anyone could ever view contemporary " surrogacy" as benign re the commodification of the CHILD, and the orchestrating of maternal estrangement trauma to serve adults desires.
Fascinating conversation, thanks to you both! I've always had a problem with the idea that any one person 'deserves' to have children, almost like surrogacy is intended to right nature's wrongs by not allowing same-sex couples to reproduce or 'unfairly' bestowing infertility on others. I have healthy children and I've also had multiple pregnancy losses at various stages. I was not owed a baby because of this; it was just what it was, unfortunate and sad.
Yes! As a San Francisco resident of 33 year now I have so much resentment that I was mocked and called a “breeder” in the 90s, to the point where I felt like it was a right wing thing to have the totally normal and natural desire to have my own biological children one day. But now it turns out that the millisecond it became legal, all of those people who previously mocked “breeders” were adopting and then procuring babies via surrogates. This is the same way I felt about when I used to darken my hair because blonde = right wing. But then all of these groups of people that were saying such things started wearing light blonde hair. Hm.
Thank you so much for this interview. I love Jennifer Lahl. Because of her longtime healthcare experience, she is so pragmatic and knowledgeable. I do not know much about this subject area so this is really helpful.
My heart just breaks thinking of these little souls and what they must go through on a deep level to not have that maternal contact with those women who conceived them. 😢 The lack of empathy, especially on the part of those surrogates is a sign of a collective disconnect of the maternal instinct. What is happening to women and humanity ? We need to get back to the sacred place that women , children and humanity in general is a reflection of a greater intelligence.
I think the first thing that has be asked when one asks...."where are all the doctors in this?", implying the ethics, is where do/did the ethics come from before? The question is asked as though we used to have ethics in this area? I have an opinion on where ethics come from but I'm wondering what others think.
As we talked a bit in chat, surrogacy is considered by a number I know (through interaction in chat rooms), to be a line too far. I am a huge fan of Dave Rubin and he, along with his husband, have two boys through surrogacy. I know NONE of the specifics, but some will give him no respect, for "taking" a baby from his mother. I am not a fan of surrogacy, but not as hard-lined as those I am referring. In 100% of cases (less abuse issues or the like), would vastly prefer a baby to be raised first by biological parents... second by male / female adoption, remarriage after divorce / death of parent and raised by same-sex couple is at the bottom of my list (say none of the abuse issues mentioned). . I would VASTLY prefer Dave and his husband adopt a child, but while easier today than in previous years (same sex couple), I am sure wait list and other factors leave a LOT to be desired. PS> My little YT friend removed me from chat, moments after you asked what position I was referring. Your channel is on the list of "wrong-thinkers", according to my "friend".
Wow, a measured and nuance approach on YT comments? I’m shocked! There’s a few issues about which people who get pushed out of the left come to head with the right and realize maybe the left isn’t entirely wrong. This appears to be one of those. I’d love to actually see some self proclaimed centrists with a platform that I will never have discuss this whole zero tolerance thing that makes people realize the right isn’t the safe haven from intolerance that some of us thought it was for a while there.
@@theradicalcenter ...Oh, I though we talked about it. Well, The Kitty has his own personal algorithm that reads EVERY comment I make, whether below video in comment section or in chat. Based on my degree of "wrong-think", I am then banned from ALL chat rooms (except the 3 channels I moderate) for up to 12 hours. Everything looks perfect, from user perspective, but after a few minutes, when nobody is responding to my chats, I open the "Participants" and see that I am not listed. . Your channel, Genspec and Deprogrammed with Keri Smith are PRIME targets, so when I comment or enter chat in ANY of them and after a minute for he algorithm to find me there... POOF. My ability to chat is gone for 12 hours. Just starting this thread, as started that time clock and is now updated to current, as of the posting of THIS comment. This is not an official TH-cam action, so is why my reports through YT channels go unanswered. . since I have never gotten a strike, warning or other from YT and each of the channels I moderate are unaffected, this person has written the algorithm to enable my chats, when on those channels. I can be on Benjamin's chat fine, open your channel's LIVE chat 2 seconds later and my chats are not visible, go directly back to Benjamin's and continue as normal. This has been going on for well over 1 month now and figured all of this out. . One time, I caught this personal algorithm quickly sign me INTO Benjamin's chat, when I was in the middle of my 12 hour "no chatting" punishment. The Kitty is a wrong thinker and that person is reading this comment, just as you are! (I'm not kidding) EDIT: Proof reading this looks a bit conspiratorial and confusing. However, I am very much targeted by somebody who does not like my opinions, so is punishing me, whenever I share them or interact with the channels mentioned above.
@@WonderfulWorldofAwesomeness ... I mentioned those who disagree with Dave and his husbands decision, but while this position is certainly not going to be common on the left, it is not prevailing on the right, so far as I can tell. Not fond of the characterization of it be intolerant, so much as the foundation values celebrates the idea of the nuclear family. . I am firmly on the political right (though just off-center, as the majority I know are), just a little bit left of those mentioned on this issue. I am pro-life and like the overwhelming number of others on the right, have exceptions for health of mother, grape and in*****. At the end of the day, the right have adopted values that have proven over millennia that a child has the best chance of success, with two-parent household, with a balance of male / female influence upon their upbringing. They are not "pro" LGB, but are not anti either... they are live and let live, just demand I endorse or validate that which I don't agree / support. . The biggest problem I see is with ANYONE who remains within an information bubble. What I have found is that while there certainly are those on the right which remain in a bubble, one cannot HELP but ingest a TON of media from the left, as that is 85% of the available sources. Even if the right WANTED to never watch CNN, MSNBC or the like, the overwhelming vast majority of news is created by left-leaning media. Beyond this is the disdain that many on the left have for the perception of those on the right, so we are demonized to a VERY large degree. . This is a MASSIVE subject and not sure you signed up to hear me go on about all this, but you inspired me to at least touch on it. Happy to follow up, if you have additional questions, so just let The Kitty know 😸
@@NinjaKittyBonksWe basically agree. I was raised in a very Catholic republican (small r) family, working class people in the San Francisco Bay Area, so I’m filled with conflicts and contradictions. Catholics being, traditionally, always a little left leaning of, say, Baptists and such. Bay Area Catholics being a whole other breed. Anyway, just to give you my background and why I consider myself politically ambiguous. I am a registered “No Party” because I’m kind of a cafeterian voter. I want to be able to pick and choose how I vote based on each individual issue, not by what a party agenda tells me how to vote. I actually think the binary (at least as far as politics) causes a very unhealthy political system, but I’m grateful that the two sides keep eachother in check. For a San Franciscan artist I’m downright right wing. But I can’t talk about my real views or I’d be run out of town. You didn’t ask for my personal history, but there it is. I truly see “both sides” at times, but I would never say that out loud in any setting here.
Sorry, to keep going on folks, but this is a very important issue to me and my husband. We were not able to conceive but had the finances to pursue any option available to a Western couple. We chose not to pursue any of those options because we deemed every single one of them unethical.
It is NOT a human right to have children!
I still cant understand how anyone could ever view contemporary " surrogacy" as benign re the commodification of the CHILD, and the orchestrating of maternal estrangement trauma to serve adults desires.
Thank you for your important work Jennifer !
🐈bonk 😺
Fascinating conversation, thanks to you both! I've always had a problem with the idea that any one person 'deserves' to have children, almost like surrogacy is intended to right nature's wrongs by not allowing same-sex couples to reproduce or 'unfairly' bestowing infertility on others. I have healthy children and I've also had multiple pregnancy losses at various stages. I was not owed a baby because of this; it was just what it was, unfortunate and sad.
Yes! As a San Francisco resident of 33 year now I have so much resentment that I was mocked and called a “breeder” in the 90s, to the point where I felt like it was a right wing thing to have the totally normal and natural desire to have my own biological children one day. But now it turns out that the millisecond it became legal, all of those people who previously mocked “breeders” were adopting and then procuring babies via surrogates. This is the same way I felt about when I used to darken my hair because blonde = right wing. But then all of these groups of people that were saying such things started wearing light blonde hair. Hm.
Wait......at one time in California blonde = a right wing person?
I always love hearing from Jennifer! Thank you both
Thank you so much for this interview. I love Jennifer Lahl. Because of her longtime healthcare experience, she is so pragmatic and knowledgeable. I do not know much about this subject area so this is really helpful.
My heart just breaks thinking of these little souls and what they must go through on a deep level to not have that maternal contact with those women who conceived them. 😢 The lack of empathy, especially on the part of those surrogates is a sign of a collective disconnect of the maternal instinct. What is happening to women and humanity ?
We need to get back to the sacred place that women , children and humanity in general is a reflection of a greater intelligence.
Laci Peterson and Scott Peterson. She was 8 months pregnant. They lived in the same neighborhood as me in Modesto.
I think the first thing that has be asked when one asks...."where are all the doctors in this?", implying the ethics, is where do/did the ethics come from before? The question is asked as though we used to have ethics in this area? I have an opinion on where ethics come from but I'm wondering what others think.
Stem sells collected from placentas are highly valued by the fertility industry.
Thanks
As we talked a bit in chat, surrogacy is considered by a number I know (through interaction in chat rooms), to be a line too far. I am a huge fan of Dave Rubin and he, along with his husband, have two boys through surrogacy. I know NONE of the specifics, but some will give him no respect, for "taking" a baby from his mother. I am not a fan of surrogacy, but not as hard-lined as those I am referring. In 100% of cases (less abuse issues or the like), would vastly prefer a baby to be raised first by biological parents... second by male / female adoption, remarriage after divorce / death of parent and raised by same-sex couple is at the bottom of my list (say none of the abuse issues mentioned).
.
I would VASTLY prefer Dave and his husband adopt a child, but while easier today than in previous years (same sex couple), I am sure wait list and other factors leave a LOT to be desired.
PS> My little YT friend removed me from chat, moments after you asked what position I was referring. Your channel is on the list of "wrong-thinkers", according to my "friend".
What friend? I'm mystified!
Wow, a measured and nuance approach on YT comments? I’m shocked! There’s a few issues about which people who get pushed out of the left come to head with the right and realize maybe the left isn’t entirely wrong. This appears to be one of those. I’d love to actually see some self proclaimed centrists with a platform that I will never have discuss this whole zero tolerance thing that makes people realize the right isn’t the safe haven from intolerance that some of us thought it was for a while there.
@@theradicalcenter ...Oh, I though we talked about it. Well, The Kitty has his own personal algorithm that reads EVERY comment I make, whether below video in comment section or in chat. Based on my degree of "wrong-think", I am then banned from ALL chat rooms (except the 3 channels I moderate) for up to 12 hours. Everything looks perfect, from user perspective, but after a few minutes, when nobody is responding to my chats, I open the "Participants" and see that I am not listed.
.
Your channel, Genspec and Deprogrammed with Keri Smith are PRIME targets, so when I comment or enter chat in ANY of them and after a minute for he algorithm to find me there... POOF. My ability to chat is gone for 12 hours. Just starting this thread, as started that time clock and is now updated to current, as of the posting of THIS comment. This is not an official TH-cam action, so is why my reports through YT channels go unanswered.
.
since I have never gotten a strike, warning or other from YT and each of the channels I moderate are unaffected, this person has written the algorithm to enable my chats, when on those channels. I can be on Benjamin's chat fine, open your channel's LIVE chat 2 seconds later and my chats are not visible, go directly back to Benjamin's and continue as normal. This has been going on for well over 1 month now and figured all of this out.
.
One time, I caught this personal algorithm quickly sign me INTO Benjamin's chat, when I was in the middle of my 12 hour "no chatting" punishment. The Kitty is a wrong thinker and that person is reading this comment, just as you are! (I'm not kidding)
EDIT: Proof reading this looks a bit conspiratorial and confusing. However, I am very much targeted by somebody who does not like my opinions, so is punishing me, whenever I share them or interact with the channels mentioned above.
@@WonderfulWorldofAwesomeness ... I mentioned those who disagree with Dave and his husbands decision, but while this position is certainly not going to be common on the left, it is not prevailing on the right, so far as I can tell. Not fond of the characterization of it be intolerant, so much as the foundation values celebrates the idea of the nuclear family.
.
I am firmly on the political right (though just off-center, as the majority I know are), just a little bit left of those mentioned on this issue. I am pro-life and like the overwhelming number of others on the right, have exceptions for health of mother, grape and in*****. At the end of the day, the right have adopted values that have proven over millennia that a child has the best chance of success, with two-parent household, with a balance of male / female influence upon their upbringing. They are not "pro" LGB, but are not anti either... they are live and let live, just demand I endorse or validate that which I don't agree / support.
.
The biggest problem I see is with ANYONE who remains within an information bubble. What I have found is that while there certainly are those on the right which remain in a bubble, one cannot HELP but ingest a TON of media from the left, as that is 85% of the available sources. Even if the right WANTED to never watch CNN, MSNBC or the like, the overwhelming vast majority of news is created by left-leaning media. Beyond this is the disdain that many on the left have for the perception of those on the right, so we are demonized to a VERY large degree.
.
This is a MASSIVE subject and not sure you signed up to hear me go on about all this, but you inspired me to at least touch on it. Happy to follow up, if you have additional questions, so just let The Kitty know 😸
@@NinjaKittyBonksWe basically agree. I was raised in a very Catholic republican (small r) family, working class people in the San Francisco Bay Area, so I’m filled with conflicts and contradictions. Catholics being, traditionally, always a little left leaning of, say, Baptists and such. Bay Area Catholics being a whole other breed. Anyway, just to give you my background and why I consider myself politically ambiguous. I am a registered “No Party” because I’m kind of a cafeterian voter. I want to be able to pick and choose how I vote based on each individual issue, not by what a party agenda tells me how to vote. I actually think the binary (at least as far as politics) causes a very unhealthy political system, but I’m grateful that the two sides keep eachother in check. For a San Franciscan artist I’m downright right wing. But I can’t talk about my real views or I’d be run out of town. You didn’t ask for my personal history, but there it is. I truly see “both sides” at times, but I would never say that out loud in any setting here.
The kids are going to go bat shit crazy about these decisions we allegedly made for them.
A handmaid’s tale…
That image was absolutely nauseating - & clearly posed as the new mother 'Madonnald😉 & Child'!😫🤮